Reports that Fidel Castro is dead

[MomatHWTK]

Announced late Friday by his brother. 

[Guest]

I can't think of anything classy to say about either Castro brother, but for the sake of Cuba I hope this marks the beginning of a transition for the benefit of the people. With Raul still alive it is doubtful to change immediately but I'm an optimist that they can emerge from the era of Castro a stronger nation. Fingers crossed, anyway.

[TravelingChris]

I have such hopes too but I agree, with Raul still in charge, its unlikely to get much better. 

[Lanny]

After Castro took over, when I was  young, my Cuban cousins had to leave Cuba. They went to Panama.  Several months ago, I read news reports here in Colombia, of Cubans (and some people from other countries) who were stranded in a town in NW Colombia, near the  international border with Panama, trying to continue on their journey toward the USA, but Panama and other Central American countries had closed their borders.  This news story, which I read a few minutes ago ( on 26NOV2016) is about Venezuela, which is a Socialist country.

 http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/11/25/from-home-depot-lunchroom-salesman-wages-war-against-venezuelas-government.html

 

To live in a Communist country, like Cuba, is much worse than living in a Socialist country.  Hopefully, with time, the people in Cuba will have more freedom.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Lanny

[Bluegoat]

I've often wondered what sort of plans they have for once Raul is gone.

 

That being said, I think they are well set to be very succesful as a country, which certainly couldn't be said pre-Castro.

[Halftime Hope]

I have a work colleague who emigrated with his family from Cuba 4 years ago.  He was just back there for the first time for 10 days along with several other people who went on the trip with him.  Before the trip he was apprehensive, because, quoting him, "The government considers me a troublemaker."

 

The stories they tell are heart-shattering re. the abject poverty of many areas of the nation, of people queuing for daily food allotted by the government, with every source of food controlled by the government. 

 

His niece was unable to get meds for her cystic fibrosis and was very close to death.  He was able to bring thousands of dollars of donated meds from the US, and she pulled through. What a horrific quandary for her parents, because he won't always be able to bring what she needs.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Halftime Hope

[hornblower]

Cuba is in the forefront of developing new medications because the government invests in it. They're at the forefront of a biotech revolution & the benefits are going to their own citizens, not to corporate coffers. 

This is a story about an American travelling to Cuba (through Canada due to the travel restrictions) for advanced treatment, unavailable in either of our countries, for incurable lung cancer & surviving unexpectedly for years on the new medications. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/lung-cancer-vaccine-cuba-1.3611326


Cuba's biggest export has been doctors. They've trained thousands & so many people around the world have benefited from this training. 



Cuba also had a literacy rate of about 70% in 1959 & by 1986 it was nearly 100%. 

 

[EmseB]

Yay for propaganda! As long as there were doctors leaving the country and the state reports a high literacy rate we can celebrate the life of a man who killed and imprisoned his political enemies. This isn't even political -- Castro was objectively a horrible dictator. And people are lauding him. I don't get it.

 

Good riddance.

[Guest]

It had been interesting reading the various political responses today.

 

Sorry, but medications and literacy rates don't trump the myriad of human rights violations and political executions over the past six decades.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Kinsa

[Bluegoat]

I have a work colleague who emigrated with his family from Cuba 4 years ago.  He was just back there for the first time for 10 days along with several other people who went on the trip with him.  Before the trip he was apprehensive, because, quoting him, "The government considers me a troublemaker."

 

The stories they tell are heart-shattering re. the abject poverty of many areas of the nation, of people queuing for daily food allotted by the government, with every source of food controlled by the government. 

 

His niece was unable to get meds for her cystic fibrosis and was very close to death.  He was able to bring thousands of dollars of donated meds from the US, and she pulled through. What a horrific quandary for her parents, because he won't always be able to bring what she needs.

 

A lot of Cuba's financial issues and problems with importing products have come from the American trade embargo, rather than from anything internal. 

 

Cuba was very poor and politically oppressed before their communist revolution - the difference was they were poor and oppressed by an American supported dictator for the good of wealthy Americans who liked to play in Havana. Since then there was at the least a real commitment to a good public medical system and a good public education system. 

[hornblower]

The US has a history of supporting lots of horrible dictators. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_authoritarian_regimes_supported_by_the_United_States &  they especially like right wing dictators.

It's just left wing dictators that make people get all upset.  

The World Policy Conference (big foreign affairs meeting; your secretary of defense attended) was just held this week in Doha.  Oh look, Qatar is a brutal dictatorship run by an absolute monarch.... 

[Guest]

In 2002 (edited: no, it was 2004), I had to have a water pipe buried in my yard and hired a contractor to do it. It took about a week to complete, and it was a brutally hot "August in South Texas" week. So I would frequently go outside and offer up lemonade to the workers.

 

As I talked with one of them, he mentioned that he was university educated. Surprised, I asked him why in the world he was digging ditches instead of having a white collar job.

 

He told me that he was from Cuba and had been working in the United States for the past three years to raise money to get his father out of prison. His father was arrested for displaying an anti-Castro sign in his window. He went on to explain to me the deplorable prison conditions. He told me he hoped he could get his father out of prison before prison killed him.

 

He also showed me a picture of his wife and 5 year old daughter whom he hadn't seen since she was only two years old. He was working both to support his wife and daughter and also to buy his father's way out of prison.

 

I have often wondered what became of that young man and his family.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Kinsa

[Halftime Hope]

A lot of Cuba's financial issues and problems with importing products have come from the American trade embargo, rather than from anything internal. 

 

Cuba was very poor and politically oppressed before their communist revolution - the difference was they were poor and oppressed by an American supported dictator for the good of wealthy Americans who liked to play in Havana. Since then there was at the least a real commitment to a good public medical system and a good public education system. 

 

I understand what Cuba had before, but trading it for 50+ years of totalitarian government was no improvement.

 

From two people I know personally who lived the majority of their adult lives in Cuba, plus the new work colleague I mentioned, the posters who are touting the "successes" of the Cuban government are simply not dealing with everyday reality for much of the populace. 

 

My colleague was forced to go to boarding school with all the other children in his village.  Initially, they were allowed to ride a train for several hours to return home for 24 hours on weekends. Over time, the leave time to be with family grew to be less and less, until finally, he went without seeing his parents for 39 months at the longest stretch (in his early teens.) 

 

Another man I know spent nearly 4 years in Cuban prisons for daring to speak publicly about his faith.  His body is visibly scarred and twisted due to the treatment he received in prison.

 

The above-mentioned girl was being treated in the best hospital in Havana.  Not only was cutting edge medication for cystic fibrosis not available, routine antibiotics were not available for her either so the hospital could treat a secondary infection they discovered after she had begun to improve  There are some significant gaps in the "good public medical system" when you can't get a simple antibiotic.

 

But, yeah, none of this is a result of the totalitarian regime. 

[Melissa in Australia]

Yay for propaganda! As long as there were doctors leaving the country and the state reports a high literacy rate we can celebrate the life of a man who killed and imprisoned his political enemies. This isn't even political -- Castro was objectively a horrible dictator. And people are lauding him. I don't get it.

 

Good riddance.

Almost laughable. A bit like the pot calling the kettle black. 

 

 Thanks to propaganda. You possibly do not realise how many 'political enemies' your country has killed worldwide. As long as you feel you are on the side of the 'good guys' then what your country does is fine.

[Melissa in Australia]

I have a work colleague who emigrated with his family from Cuba 4 years ago.  He was just back there for the first time for 10 days along with several other people who went on the trip with him.  Before the trip he was apprehensive, because, quoting him, "The government considers me a troublemaker."

 

The stories they tell are heart-shattering re. the abject poverty of many areas of the nation, of people queuing for daily food allotted by the government, with every source of food controlled by the government. 

 

His niece was unable to get meds for her cystic fibrosis and was very close to death.  He was able to bring thousands of dollars of donated meds from the US, and she pulled through. What a horrific quandary for her parents, because he won't always be able to bring what she needs.

 

funny, we get stories of people in USA that cover stories of  quote the abject poverty of many areas of the nation, of people queuing for daily food allotted by the government  as well of the stories of people in US not able to access basic medical aid

[EmseB]

The man had people, a lot of them, executed for political differences, for being religious, for being gay, because he just didn't like the cut of their jib. Others he put in forced labor camps. Are these disputed facts? Or is it just that the ends justify the means?

 

No, it's not okay if it's a fascist or a communist or any ist.

 

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

[EmseB]

funny, we get stories of people in USA that cover stories of quote the abject poverty of many areas of the nation, of people queuing for daily food allotted by the government as well of the stories of people in US not able to access basic medical aid

And yet people were not piling themselves into watercraft of questionable stability and risking their lives and the lives of their children to get to Cuba. Funny, that.

[Melissa in Australia]

The man had people, a lot of them, executed for political differences, for being religious, for being gay, because he just didn't like the cut of their jib. Others he put in forced labor camps. Are these disputed facts? Or is it just that the ends justify the means?

 

No, it's not okay if it's a fascist or a communist or any ist.

 

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

I am not a fan of Castro or of Cuba at all, just pointing some facts that seem to be completely overlooked by some.

[EmseB]

Almost laughable. A bit like the pot calling the kettle black.

 

Thanks to propaganda. You possibly do not realise how many 'political enemies' your country has killed worldwide. As long as you feel you are on the side of the 'good guys' then what your country does is fine.

I'm happy to have another conversation about those issues. I would probably agree with much you have to say on the issue. I'm not sure why that makes Castro anywhere approaching a decent human being.

[EmseB]

I am not a fan of Castro or of Cuba at all, just pointing some facts that seem to be completely overlooked by some.

Because that's not the topic of the thread? I was responding to one particular post about one particular person, not attempting to make an exhaustive list or caveat with every other human rights abuses in history.

[bettyandbob]

I find it distasteful to cheer the man's death. I think he did awful things. Many, many people suffered. I also think preCastro Cuba was not a great place, with it's heavy influence from American organized crime. 

 

 

I hope Cuba is able to build a country with more freedoms and a strong economy for it's people. 

[hornblower]

The man had people, a lot of them, executed for political differences, for being religious, for being gay, because he just didn't like the cut of their jib. Others he put in forced labor camps. Are these disputed facts? Or is it just that the ends justify the means?

 

No, it's not okay if it's a fascist or a communist or any ist.

 

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

 

The point is your country continues to support numerous regimes TODAY that do that.  Sure you say it's not ok but your country continues to support them & you don't see many people criticizing it. 

 

 

US opinions towards Cuba are highly slanted to see only the negative because that's how it's been portrayed in your media for eons. 

 

Nobody needs to lecture me about dictatorships. I was born in Eastern Europe under communism. My degree is communist eastern europe.  

 

And I worked with refugees in Canada who came with broken bones, disfigured hands from torture, relatives who died in prisons, from countries supported by the USA. 

 

 

Yes, authoritarianism is awful.  And yet, we (the West) support it in many places because it suits us. We opposed Cuba because it suited us & was part of the big battle against communism.  

 

 

But many capitalist countries have horrible injustices, poverty, gaps in education. What people consider when they think about Cuba is that it IS a profoundly different way of looking society & governance. And THAT is what is threatening to the US. 

 

Furthermore, western democracies may think they're 'democratic' -  but what increasingly people are realizing is that a small cabal of ultra wealthy are making all the decisions. From PACs to trade deals to buying up media....how much does the individual's voice really count? And  is it really so good that the entire system is geared to enriching the few at the expense of everyone else?  Time & again on both political spectrums people identified a key issue as being disenfranchised from decision making & not being heard. 

 

 

No, Cuba wasn't a paradise. But it  had the seeds of a great promise.  We didn't like the authoritarianism. But many are still considering the ideological spectrum of communism, socialism, democratic socialism etc & its functions in society. 

 

[Guest]

.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Kinsa

[Halftime Hope]

funny, we get stories of people in USA that cover stories of  quote the abject poverty of many areas of the nation, of people queuing for daily food allotted by the government  as well of the stories of people in US not able to access basic medical aid

 

 

I invite you to come travel the US, including to our inner cities and to poorest of the poor rural counties, say western Pennsylvania or eastern Kentucky.  Talk to people about what is missing in their lives and about the basic human freedoms they have.

 

When you've then done the same in Cuba, then we can have a real discussion.

[Halftime Hope]

I find it distasteful to cheer the man's death. I think he did awful things. Many, many people suffered. I also think preCastro Cuba was not a great place, with it's heavy influence from American organized crime. 

 

 

I hope Cuba is able to build a country with more freedoms and a strong economy for it's people. 

 

I agree with everything you wrote.  I hope with all my heart that this will be the beginning of a new, brighter future for Cubans.

[EmseB]

My opinions about Cuba are not really relevant to the discussion. Neither are my opinions of various economic systems. I agree that Cuba, as one of the richest nations in the Caribbean, had great promise. I think it still does. But that's neither here nor there.

 

Castro was objectively and unequivocally a horrible man who killed and imprisoned people for dissenting against him. There are no "yeah, buts" that justify the ends, especially not the propaganda the party itslef puts out about how great he made things there wrt to literacy or medicine or whatever. There's nothing to celebrate or laud about this guy.

 

Also, I am not celebrating his death. But I don't begrudge those who are because they were held in prison or had family members killed by his regime for their opinions. I don't feel I have a place to tell them their feelings are wrong.

[Guest]

I invite you to come travel the US, including to our inner cities and to poorest of the poor rural counties, say western Pennsylvania or eastern Kentucky.  Talk to people about what is missing in their lives and about the basic human freedoms they have.

 

When you've then done the same in Cuba, then we can have a real discussion.

 

Yes, and and go talk to the people in Little Havana-- in Florida. 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/26/us/miami-cubans-fidel-castro.html?_r=0

 

They want to celebrate, and I think they're more than entitled.  They lived under him. They fled him. They got to endure his regime and everything it entailed after they escaped it;  like being separated from their families while we sit around in the comfort of our own homes having theoretical conversations about him with our pricey internet access in our well provisioned homes. I'm going to be the last person on earth to try and convince them there was any good to what they endured or that they should pause in their rejoice.

 

If people think he was so awesome I question why more didn't move that way to get to experience the joy and progressive wondrousness that was Fidel's Cuba. 

[maize]

funny, we get stories of people in USA that cover stories of quote the abject poverty of many areas of the nation, of people queuing for daily food allotted by the government as well of the stories of people in US not able to access basic medical aid

I've not been to Cuba, but the type of poverty I have seen in, say, Bolivia, is in an entirely different category than what exists in inner cities and poor rural areas in the US.

 

There are real poverty issues here, but things are orders of magnitude worse in some parts of the world. A huge proportion of the worst situations in the US are linked to mental illness and/or substance abuse; those are complex and challenging issues to tackle and cause a lot of real suffering, but they don't compare to the kind of systemic abject poverty that I have seen elsewhere.

[Halftime Hope]

Golly. No need for the patriotic chest beating re freedom.

 

Castro, like many other major world leaders of the 20th C, did some truly terrible things. And achieved some truly remarkable things.

 

It's grey, the picture. Not black and white. And consideration of his legacy, both positive and negative, requires a knowledge of historical context.

 

If Cuba is the kettle, the US is definitely the pot. 

 

Sadie, this country is deeply flawed; most are.  No one is denying that, and that may be worthy of another thread.  But it is absolutely factual to say that in this country we have basic human freedoms that are non-existent under this particular totalitarian regime.

 

He may have achieved some good things, but how, and at what cost to Cubans?  For example:

 

My colleague remembers vividly being shipped off to school.  It is not a coincidence that the program which forcibly removed children from their homes-- ostensibly to give them an education (no matter that they were already getting one locally) -- only went into effect the year AFTER the Cuban population was disarmed.   My colleague's family dissolved because of the mental breakdown of one of his parents due to losing the children.

 

The local schools were dismantled, and teachers were moved to different government school locations, again without any choice, and they were forced to indoctrinate the children.  There was no local safety net or interpersonal bonds around the teachers so that they stood a chance of resisting what they were being forced to do.

 

So, knowing that background, I'm not going to give that dictator any kudos for "great public education," when he's got a total population of less than 12 million to serve, and he had to suspend the most basic human freedoms just to achieve basic literacy. 

 

Were I living in Cuba, I would not have the freedom to call black black.  No, I'd be required to whitewash it myself or to blink while others call it gray. 

[Faithful_Steward]

It's like the Cold War never ended on this thread.

Or possibly, some of us have friends and family that were victims of Castro's brutality,

[Rosie_0801]

My colleague remembers vividly being shipped off to school.  It is not a coincidence that the program which forcibly removed children from their homes-- ostensibly to give them an education (no matter that they were already getting one locally) -- only went into effect the year AFTER the Cuban population was disarmed.   My colleague's family dissolved because of the mental breakdown of one of his parents due to losing the children.

 

Oh yeah. Stealing children is abhorrent whether it's done in Australia, Canada, the US or Cuba.

[Halftime Hope]

It's like the Cold War never ended on this thread.

 

Sadie, you have a point.  The Cold War never ended in Cuba.  They are living under communism and its effects every day; for them it goes on daily, with a lack of everyday modern amenities that is almost unthinkable, lives restricted, freedoms deprived.

 

Even Haitians, as poor as the general populace is, are rich with freedoms the Cuban people only dare to dream of.

 

Again, I'm not cheering his death; I grieve for what the country has endured. And I'm hopeful for their future!

 

 

And with that, I'm bowing out.

 

 

 

[IfIOnly]

Nm

Edited November 26, 2016 by ifIonlyhadabrain

[maize]

There are, we believe, three main causes of poverty in the United States: poverty in the world; the operation of the political and economic system in the United States which has tended to keep people from poor families poor, and, to a lesser extent, actual physical and behavioral issues among some people who are poor.

 

Suggesting that most problems re hunger in the US are linked to systemic, not individual, issues.

I agree with your suggestion, but the level of poverty that stems from systemic issues in the US is not the abject, utter misery I have seen in some parts of the world.

 

I'm not saying it isn't a problem, but...what I have seen elsewhere is so utterly horrible I can't even describe it. I've spent decades in the United State, I have traveled this country widely. Even among the homeless populations here I have not seen anything comparable to what I saw in two years in Bolivia.

 

Not all poverty is equal.

[Bluegoat]

I don't think you could lay the poverty in Cuba at Castro's door, so I don't really see why that would come into the discussion.  Economic failure in Cuba was a major goal of US policy there over the past 50 years - to convince people inside and outside Cuba that communism was a failure because it didn't perform economically.  Pointing to poverty in Cuba as being something Castro wanted or orchestrated is just playing into that.

 

It would be lovely to see Cuba move away from totalitarian government to a true democracy of some kind, and one that supports some of the goals of a fair society.

 

Castro itself, was an interesting person.  An authoritarian, yes.  And I wouldn't be comfortable saying that authoritarianism is without real advantages and it makes historical sense that it was a solution that worked to change Cuba.  He also had a lot of other good qualities as a leader.  He was certainly a very remarkable man - there aren't many people who manage to be a leader in the way he was, for so long, and against the kind of outside opposition he had.

 

 

[hornblower]

 

Even Haitians, as poor as the general populace is, are rich with freedoms the Cuban people only dare to dream of.

 

ah, the freedom to die poor & young & uneducated! 

 

Haiti per capita income 1,720 PPP  (purchasing power parity) 

 

Cuba per capita income  18, 520 PPP 

 

 

Haiti life expectancy 62.70 yrs 

Cuba life expectancy 79.07 yrs

 

Haiti literacy rate 61% 

Cuba literacy rate approaching 100% 

 

 

 

And Haiti is an interesting one to consider because the Duvaliers destroyed and pillaged that country for their own profit, tortured, executed & mistreated their people but the US kept wringing their hands because they might have been appalling dictators but at least they were strongly anti communist. 

 

 

You took Cuban boat people but you sent back the Haitians.

 

"In 1981, President Ronald Reagan reinforced the policy and began interdiction of Haitian boats. For the next ten years, U.S. Coast Guard ships returned any seized boat carrying Haitian refugees to Port-au-Prince, Haiti. Interviews were supposed to be conducted on board, and anyone with a legitimate request was to be granted asylum. However, during that period, only twenty-eight applications for asylum were granted out of approximately twenty-five thousand. Many reported never having actually been interviewed at all."

 

 

That's why I keep saying it isn't about dictatorships or torture or mistreatment of a people. It's always been about ideology. That's quite clear if you study US foreign policy.  The citizens just get told it's about the big bad undemocratic dictator. 

[EmseB]

I feel like we must be talking about different people, or that the number of people who think that the ends justify the means when the means are killing those who disagree is a lot higher and scarier than I thought.

 

This has nothing to do with the cold war or political opinions or economics or the relativism of who might have done worse things. How can running forced labor camps and executing people for being against your political leadership be a gray area?

[bibiche]

And what has the US done to promote "freedom?" The US has unleashed unspeakable horror in the name of liberty (which, strangely, seems often to translate as the interests of wealthy, influential people...). Here is just one example that 'Muricans don't learn about in school: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d'%C3%A9tat

[Slartibartfast]

My colleague remembers vividly being shipped off to school.  It is not a coincidence that the program which forcibly removed children from their homes-- ostensibly to give them an education (no matter that they were already getting one locally) -- only went into effect the year AFTER the Cuban population was disarmed.   My colleague's family dissolved because of the mental breakdown of one of his parents due to losing the children.

That also happened in the United States as well as Australia.

 

No one has any business pointing fingers.

 

Castro is dead...I hope things get better for Cuba. I am glad we are going to be working with them more.

[Liz CA]

It's not about giving kudos. It's about facts.

 

Fact: human rights abuses

 

Fact: a really good health care system, from which other countries could learn a lot.

 

Fact: you all just voted in a man for VP who believes in conversion therapy for gays - so forgive me if I find the tears for dissidents a little crocodile like. 

 

There are huge costs to your so-called 'freedoms' and defence thereof as well. There are huge costs to neoliberal capitalism. 

 

This is not a fact. Not all voted for him - or rather the man whose running mate he is.

Sadie, I know the conversion therapy thing hits close to home but how this relates to Fidel Castro's death I cannot make the leap.

Most Cubans I know, who fled Cuba and ended up in Europe or the US are happy they have escaped with the clothes on their backs and sometimes less than that. I grew up in Europe during the Cold War.

[Slartibartfast]

It's not about giving kudos. It's about facts.

 

Fact: human rights abuses

 

Fact: a really good health care system, from which other countries could learn a lot.

 

Fact: you all just voted in a man for VP who believes in conversion therapy for gays - so forgive me if I find the tears for dissidents a little crocodile like. 

 

There are huge costs to your so-called 'freedoms' and defence thereof as well. There are huge costs to neoliberal capitalism.

In our defense he did not win the popular vote. And while he believes in it he hasn't been able to do anything about it and I am convinced we will be able to stop him. I will start throwing all the tea into the harbor if they try to use federal funds to torture people. Don't blame us for something that hasn't happened yet and especially something that people will put their lives on the line to prevent.

 

I am not that far from Washington and if he goes anywhere with that I am going roadtrip crazy. You are free to send me any sign wording suggestions you might like.

 

Also we actually have gay marriage and Australia does not. :p

Edited November 27, 2016 by Slartibartfast

[Slartibartfast]

dbl

Edited November 26, 2016 by Slartibartfast

[Slartibartfast]

I don't deny that it is a concern but I am going to put everything I have into preventing it.

[Guest]

Wasn't Castro anti-homosexual to the point of crack downs, arrests, and imprisonment? Or did we just rewrite history there too? This thread has taken a weird turn.

[Guest]

Why does the death of a brutal dictator have to be turned into a criticism of the US election? For real? One can argue whether or not he was wholly depraved or just misunderstood and only depraved when he was slaughtering political dissidents, but there is really no question that for the majority of Cubans (especially those not in the political, wealthy elite) his passing has evoked more joy than sadness.

 

And Trump and Pence have jack to do with any of it. Like, about as much as a red potato and shoelaces.

[Guest]

The direction this thread had taken is so completely bizarre, I just don't even know what to say. Wowzers.

[Slartibartfast]

He did comment on it

 

 

Mike Pence â€@mike_pence 7h7 hours ago

The tyrant #Castro is dead. New hope dawns. We will stand with the oppressed Cuban people for a free and democratic Cuba. Viva Cuba Libre!

That seems inappropriate.

[Slartibartfast]

Wasn't Castro anti-homosexual to the point of crack downs, arrests, and imprisonment? Or did we just rewrite history there too? This thread has taken a weird turn.

I don't think Mike Pence would be any better in regard to homosexuals...I think that was the point. He is for conversion therapy which is so brutal that if a country did it to a POW they would be charged with War Crimes.

 

I think that was the point that was being made. It's true, both are bad in regard to gay rights.

 

All countries do bad things. Castro did a lot of bad things and we don't hear about it due to propaganda but we do actually have special asylum rules for Cuban refugees and we have a LOT of them.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Slartibartfast

[Guest]

He did comment on it

 

 

That seems inappropriate.

I'm not sure it is, given the population of Cubans in the US. The sentiment against Castro is overwhelmingly negative, especially among the generation that physically left and sought sanctuary here in the US. It predictably waters down a bit with more time and distance in the younger generations but the celebrations aren't being understated.

 

Things in Cuba are bad. Is it Iran or PRC? Not at present. But suffering and human devastation directly traceable to the communist government are real and I think every sane person hopes for the sake of Cuba that things improve from where Castro left them.

 

If some of the aspects of his regime that did benefit his people stay in place, more the better.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[Slartibartfast]

I'm not sure it is, given the population of Cubans in the US. The sentiment against Castro is overwhelmingly negative, especially among the generation that physically left and sought sanctuary here in the US. It predictably waters down a bit with more time and distance in the younger generations but the celebrations aren't being understated.

 

Things in Cuba are bad. Is it Iran or PRC? Not at present. But suffering and human devastation directly traceable to the communist government are real and I think every sane person hopes for the sake of Cuba that things improve from where Castro left them.

 

If some of the aspects of his regime that did benefit his people stay in place, more the better.

Castro's brother is still in control of Cuba. I would think that would annoy Cuba with whom we are trying to improve relations.

 

I don't deny Castro did bad things, he was horrible and did horrible things.