Help with traveling (college visits) upstate NY

[whitestavern]

DD wants to look at a bunch of colleges in upstate NY. Because there are so many we are thinking we will go during April vacation (she's in B&M high school). She's only a junior so no interviews or anything; she just wants to check out the campuses.  Any suggestions on where to stay or eat, anything fun to see on the route, etc. would be greatly appreciated Also, any direct experience with any of the colleges are welcome too. She is looking at a bio major, possibly premed, possibly an English minor, if that makes a difference. Some of these she's not super interested in yet, but they are more affordable, so that's why we are checking them out :)

 

Here's a very loose plan:

Leave CT

First stop Albany area. visit Siena, SUNY Albany, Union

Next stop visit Colgate and Hamilton (she likes these)

Next stop Syracuse area: visit Le Moyne and Syracuse U

Next stop Rochester area: visit RIT, SUNY Brockport, and U Rochester (she is very interested in this one)

Next stop Cornell and SUNY Oneonta

Last stop Poughkeepsie area to visit Vassar

 

Again, she is in the early stages of the college search. The feel of the campus is very important to her. She thinks she wants a smaller school in a large town or small city, but she isn't ruling anything out at this point, thus the wide variety of colleges listed above.

[teachermom2834]

No specific advice but we visited fewer schools and spread out the visits and I got so very sick of it. By the end they were all running together.

 

Personally, my kids and I would be totally miserable trying to see that many schools. My advice would be to narrow down the list.

 

I know that probably wasn't what you were looking for in way of advice. I will add that dh is a U of Rochester grad and it was a positive experience for him 🙂

[whitestavern]

She is very interested in U of Rochester, which does seem like it has a lot to offer. What are the winters like? We're hearty New Englanders but that looks like a whole different level of cold 😆

[gardenmom5]

I pm'd you.

[gardenmom5]

She is very interested in U of Rochester, which does seem like it has a lot to offer. What are the winters like? We're hearty New Englanders but that looks like a whole different level of cold 😆

 

we have a friend who did his doc at rochester (science buildings have tunnels)... . they had a baby, she  stayed inside.  as spring came, they went for a walk and commented how balmy it was and  they didn't need a coat.. . . . . . it was 32.

 

they realized they needed to get out of that town.

Edited November 20, 2016 by gardenmom5

[umsami]

Colgate is beautiful.  Both my Dad and Uncles attended there.

 

We lived in the Albany area for a few years.  There's also the College of Saint Rose.

 

My favorite food place is in Troy and is called Ali Baba's.  They bake their own puffy bread there....and I love their doner (gyro) sandwiches, lahmajun (kind of like Arabic pizza), and just bread with cucumber/garlic/yogurt sauce.  Not much to look at, but well loved.  http://www.alibabacusine.com/

 

There was a nice vegan bakery in Troy, too.  Name is escaping me but I'll edit if I think of it. (ETA: Ugh, it was called Xs to Os and apparently closed last year. :( )

 

Edited November 20, 2016 by umsami

[teachermom2834]

She is very interested in U of Rochester, which does seem like it has a lot to offer. What are the winters like? We're hearty New Englanders but that looks like a whole different level of cold 😆

 

Hmmm....we both grew up in Buffalo so Rochester weather was normal for us as we didn't know anything different.  I do remember he used the tunnels primarily and the weather was not something he complained about.  Again, he was used to it.  

 

After graduation we moved down south and realized that not everyone lives that way.  LOL.  We would never go back now and think the winters are far too harsh.  But, it is all perspective.  If the school is a good fit and she is a hearty New Englander I bet it would be fine. Cold, but fine.

[bibiche]

She is very interested in U of Rochester, which does seem like it has a lot to offer. What are the winters like? We're hearty New Englanders but that looks like a whole different level of cold 😆

Cold!  But they do have tunnels!

[justasque]

She is very interested in U of Rochester, which does seem like it has a lot to offer. What are the winters like? We're hearty New Englanders but that looks like a whole different level of cold 😆

 

Four of our extended family did a Rochester school (RIT & UofR).  In a town like that, they are very prepared for winter.  Walks and roads and parking lots are salted and plowed promptly, and tunnels make moving around campus easy.  If you have waterproof shoes and a decent coat, it doesn't seem to be a problem.  I don't think I'd want to live there as a 9-5 worker, but on a more-or-less self-contained campus where the work of snow removal is done by someone else, it doesn't seem to be a huge issue.  The roads were always passable.  We watched the weather when it came to picking kids up for winter breaks, and once or twice in eight years went a day early to avoid driving during the actual storm, but it was never a serious problem.

[creekland]

My U Rochester boy almost didn't apply due to thinking he wouldn't like the winter.  He now feels his application there was the "best decision of his life" and remarks that he almost didn't make it!  We, personally, love the school.

 

It's an expensive school if you don't get much aid though... We get enough to make it affordable for us (they even came in the least expensive of the schools middle son applied to), but that doesn't always happen.

 

For staying around there?  Henrietta offers oodles of options and is very close.  We stay with my aunt in Chili... I suppose I shouldn't offer her place.

 

For eating... if you like BBQ, Sticky Lips or Dinosaur are the two everyone raves about.  We personally prefer Sticky Lips among the two.  Many others will opt for Dinosaur (we like both - just prefer Sticky Lips).

 

For a very tasty sports bar, go with Tullys.

 

If you want a small local (Indian) kabob place, we've fallen in love with Monroe Kabob.

 

Jay's Diner is also terrific and is open 24 hours.

 

If you want the Rochester "traditional" Garbage Plate, go with Nick Tahou.

 

All of these places can be googled to see what you think about them.

 

I suppose I also shouldn't volunteer my aunt's kitchen... ;)

[justasque]

I second Jay's Diner (great for breakfast) and Dinosaur (for an evening outing) and staying in Henrietta.

[kbutton]

No advice, but that's going to be a pretty trip!

 

Wait, a little advice...make sure you get Perry's or Turkey Hill ice cream at least once. :-) Go see some of the canals and locks. It's cool. 

 

Yes, these places know what to do with snow. 

[bettyandbob]

Are you visiting 3 schools in a day?

 

I'd think about cutting a few if the "not sure about" schools. Seeing so many close together makes it hard to process likes and dislikes of a visit. I did help my dd by creating a comparison chart that we each filled in right after a visit.

[luuknam]

My wife's a born-and-raised Texan and doesn't think Buffalo snow/cold is a big deal. I don't think I've got anything else to add, since apparently WNY is too far upstate for the OP. I don't think it's a big deal for 4 years at college either (in less than a month and a half we'll have been there 4 years) - I wouldn't want to stay there forever though.

[SparklyUnicorn]

My wife's a born-and-raised Texan and doesn't think Buffalo snow/cold is a big deal. I don't think I've got anything else to add, since apparently WNY is too far upstate for the OP. I don't think it's a big deal for 4 years at college either (in less than a month and a half we'll have been there 4 years) - I wouldn't want to stay there forever though.

 

Haha...I'm born and raised in the northeast and I think the snow/cold in Buffalo is awful! 

[luuknam]

Haha...I'm born and raised in the northeast and I think the snow/cold in Buffalo is awful! 

 

In all fairness, some winters are much worse than other winters. Some winters are rather mild. The year with the 6ft of snow was rough (and we only got like 2 inches in that storm - but we got more snow later, and then more, and none of it melted until spring - it was a long winter). But last winter I didn't even get my winter coat out of my closet - I just wore a zip-up sweater over another sweater if necessary.

[SparklyUnicorn]

In all fairness, some winters are much worse than other winters. Some winters are rather mild. The year with the 6ft of snow was rough (and we only got like 2 inches in that storm - but we got more snow later, and then more, and none of it melted until spring - it was a long winter). But last winter I didn't even get my winter coat out of my closet - I just wore a zip-up sweater over another sweater if necessary.

 

True, same here.  But if we have bad weather here, there weather is a lot worse especially in terms of snow fall totals. 

 

ALTHOUGH, I moved from CT to NY and where I was in CT we got a TON more snow than where I am now.  The major difference here is that it gets a lot colder. 

[creekland]

I second Jay's Diner (great for breakfast) and Dinosaur (for an evening outing) and staying in Henrietta.

 

You know, I'd add a like to your post except you're one of those Dinosaur people... ;)   :lol:

[SparklyUnicorn]

Dinosaur BBQ is so good...

 

 

[creekland]

Dinosaur BBQ is so good...

 

It is - we like it and we'd happily go there if someone else chose the place - but Sticky Lips is better.  We've compared the two side by side.  Our taste buds have voted.   :coolgleamA:

[SparklyUnicorn]

It is - we like it and we'd happily go there if someone else chose the place - but Sticky Lips is better.  We've compared the two side by side.  Our taste buds have voted.   :coolgleamA:

 

I've never tried Sticky Lips.  But hey it's BBQ....even not the best BBQ is yum.  And it's one of those things that is difficult to do at home so worth going out for.

 

The main office of my husband's employer is in Texas.  So whenever they get any Texan visiting from that office they take him to Dinosaur.  Most of them say it is great.  Sometimes some say "eh". 

 

I also like the relaxed atmosphere there. 

[creekland]

I've never tried Sticky Lips.  But hey it's BBQ....even not the best BBQ is yum.  And it's one of those things that is difficult to do at home so worth going out for.

 

The main office of my husband's employer is in Texas.  So whenever they get any Texan visiting from that office they take him to Dinosaur.  Most of them say it is great.  Sometimes some say "eh". 

 

I also like the relaxed atmosphere there. 

 

The atmosphere is good at both IME, esp the in city location of Sticky Lips (vs the Henrietta location).  The side dishes differ in flavor - more spice (hot) to Dinosaur I'd say.

 

We're like you in that we like a lot of BBQ varieties, so visit BBQ restaurants often testing them out - finding the local flavors.  I can't stand sweet types though and I despise our PA local version which is Sloppy Joe anywhere else.  My preference is a nice tangy (but not too hot) sauce with meat that is juicy and tender.  Totally different (and off thread) is the Eastern NC vinegar based version using pork.  That's awesome too - just totally different.

 

To the OP, you can't go wrong with either option if you like BBQ.  If you're there more often (as we tend to be with our visits), then test both.  ;)

 

But also...Monroe Kabob is a small little gem - one of our top preferences for lunch or dinner.  It's very small, but homemade and good.  Tully's is a central NY local (small) chain.  We ate there last time as it was our top choice then.  Then we added Jay's for breakfast before we left since I can get a gyro and fries at any time of the day.  It's tough to get that where we live, so I've become accustomed to getting one in Roc for breakfast when we go.  (I know.  We're weird.)  Sticky Lips will probably be our destination this coming Sunday as we'll be ready for BBQ after having feasted on turkey...

 

Sticky Lips, Tullys, or Jays will be easier to get to if staying in Henrietta.

[SparklyUnicorn]

The atmosphere is good at both IME, esp the in city location of Sticky Lips (vs the Henrietta location).  The side dishes differ in flavor - more spice (hot) to Dinosaur I'd say.

 

We're like you in that we like a lot of BBQ varieties, so visit BBQ restaurants often testing them out - finding the local flavors.  I can't stand sweet types though and I despise our PA local version which is Sloppy Joe anywhere else.  My preference is a nice tangy (but not too hot) sauce with meat that is juicy and tender.  Totally different (and off thread) is the Eastern NC vinegar based version using pork.  That's awesome too - just totally different.

 

To the OP, you can't go wrong with either option if you like BBQ.  If you're there more often (as we tend to be with our visits), then test both.   ;)

 

But also...Monroe Kabob is a small little gem - one of our top preferences for lunch or dinner.  It's very small, but homemade and good.  Tully's is a central NY local (small) chain.  We ate there last time as it was our top choice then.  Then we added Jay's for breakfast before we left since I can get a gyro and fries at any time of the day.  It's tough to get that where we live, so I've become accustomed to getting one in Roc for breakfast when we go.  (I know.  We're weird.)  Sticky Lips will probably be our destination this coming Sunday as we'll be ready for BBQ after having feasted on turkey...

 

Sticky Lips, Tullys, or Jays will be easier to get to if staying in Henrietta.

 

Sticky Lips is quite far for me.  We have a Dino about 20 minutes away. 

 

Great, now I want BBQ  LOL

[creekland]

Sticky Lips is quite far for me.  We have a Dino about 20 minutes away. 

 

Great, now I want BBQ  LOL

 

No sympathy.  We'll be eating food from my mom's local hospital cafeteria today.  Yum.  (sigh)  BBQ isn't even close to an option - not even if we were eating out.

[MedicMom]

I prefer Sticky Lips. I love Rochester and take my kids there a lot--it's about a 90 minute drive for me and there is so much for them to do.

There are some really nice places in Henrietta or even Victor to stay at it you don't want to stay right in Rochester.

Edited November 20, 2016 by MedicMom

[Luckymama]

You guys are making me hungry.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I live over 3 and a half hours from Rochester.  So yeah no I'm not driving 7 hours for BBQ.

 

 

[Lanny]

I suggest that you eliminate  a lot of schools from that list, or, that you allow 2 or 3 weeks for your inspection trip.  Do all of those schools have the Major your DD is contemplating at this time?  

[Hilltopmom]

Just so you know, those schools are not " upstate NY". Rochester is central, Albany is capital district, update is Adirondacks & north of them :)

 

Has she looked into Russell Sage in Troy? Lovely little women's college down the hill from RPI.

Troy is becoming quite the trendy town these days, much nicer than when we were there.

 

Good luck!

[Hyacinth]

Just so you know, those schools are not " upstate NY". Rochester is central, Albany is capital district, update is Adirondacks & north of them :)

 

Has she looked into Russell Sage in Troy? Lovely little women's college down the hill from RPI.

Troy is becoming quite the trendy town these days, much nicer than when we were there.

 

Good luck!

 

Upstate NY refers to any area of New York State north of New York City. It's a huge general term that basically means "not NYC."

 

[whitestavern]

Just so you know, those schools are not " upstate NY". Rochester is central, Albany is capital district, update is Adirondacks & north of them :)

 

Has she looked into Russell Sage in Troy? Lovely little women's college down the hill from RPI.

Troy is becoming quite the trendy town these days, much nicer than when we were there.

 

Good luck!

 

I think of upstate as anything not in NYC :)

 

She just decided this week that she does not want to go to an all women's college. But thanks for the recommendation.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think of upstate as anything not in NYC :)

 

She just decided this week that she does not want to go to an all women's college. But thanks for the recommendation.

 

Not just you.  That's how lots of people have called it in my experiences.  Which I think is rather useless though because that covers a HUGE area. 

[mschickie]

Henrietta is definitely the place to stay (not that I am prejudice because I live there   ;)  ), easy access to each of the schools (Brockport is about 30 min away) and lots of hotel choices.   Most of the hotels are really nice it just depends on the level you want, economy to more luxury.   

 

As for the Sticky Lips vs Dinosaur argument I tend to lean towards Dinosaur for flavor.  The rub for Sticky Lips can be a little strong sometimes.  Love the Fried Green Tomatoes at Dinosaur too.  There is a new place in town that I have heard is excellent too.  Texas B-B-Q Joint over by RIT.  I have only had their pulled pork at an event but it was excellent.

 

The winters are not too bad.  If you are from NE you can handle it.  You tend to find more snow out by Brockport ( I lived there for almost 10 years) than you do in Henrietta or the city of Rochester.  The nice thing is that folks around here know how to take care of the snow.  There are lots of opportunities for winter activities too.

 

The other positive thing in the area is Wegman's.  Once you shop there you will never want to shop in another grocery store.

 

 

We were just down at Cornell a few months ago.  I can say that the parking was horrible in town and the flow of traffic was a little weird.  I am sure if we were down there more often it would be a bit easier.  I just know dh was ready to get out of there by the end of the day. 

[creekland]

I live over 3 and a half hours from Rochester.  So yeah no I'm not driving 7 hours for BBQ.

 

Wimp!  ;)  We've driven that far for NC BBQ from hubby's hometown - opting to return home to PA from my in-laws in VA via eastern NC...  :coolgleamA:   We've done it more than once too.  Sometimes one just needs a certain BBQ and 3 hours (one way) is as close as you're going to get...  We wouldn't do it for Sticky Lips (or Dinosaur) though.

 

Henrietta is definitely the place to stay (not that I am prejudice because I live there   ;)  ), easy access to each of the schools (Brockport is about 30 min away) and lots of hotel choices.   Most of the hotels are really nice it just depends on the level you want, economy to more luxury.   

 

As for the Sticky Lips vs Dinosaur argument I tend to lean towards Dinosaur for flavor.  The rub for Sticky Lips can be a little strong sometimes.  Love the Fried Green Tomatoes at Dinosaur too.  There is a new place in town that I have heard is excellent too.  Texas B-B-Q Joint over by RIT.  I have only had their pulled pork at an event but it was excellent.

 

The winters are not too bad.  If you are from NE you can handle it.  You tend to find more snow out by Brockport ( I lived there for almost 10 years) than you do in Henrietta or the city of Rochester.  The nice thing is that folks around here know how to take care of the snow.  There are lots of opportunities for winter activities too.

 

The other positive thing in the area is Wegman's.  Once you shop there you will never want to shop in another grocery store.

 

 

We were just down at Cornell a few months ago.  I can say that the parking was horrible in town and the flow of traffic was a little weird.  I am sure if we were down there more often it would be a bit easier.  I just know dh was ready to get out of there by the end of the day. 

 

I wasn't going to like your thread due to the Dinosaur bit  :lol:  but you redeemed yourself by both suggesting another restaurant for us to try out (middle son tried Texas BBQ once and loved it too) AND you remembered to mention Wegmans.  I absolutely LOVE Wegmans and wish we could get one near us.  

[FaithManor]

In terms of weather, we are in the thumb/tri cities area of Michigan near Lake Huron and our daughtrt, son in law, and grandbaby are in Albany. They have much better weather tham we do! I think most New Englanders can handle it.

 

U of R is just such a top flight school. Darn expensive, but with the right scholarship package so worth attending. So if you are looking to shave the list down, do not skip U of R.

[Hilltopmom]

Upstate NY refers to any area of New York State north of New York City. It's a huge general term that basically means "not NYC."

 

Right, to people from NYC or other states, "anything" north of the city is "upstate". To people from the rest of the state, it's not :)

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm originally from CT which is a TINY state.  Coming to NY it's odd to think of stuff as being hours away.  Nothing was hours away in CT.

 

 

[Hyacinth]

Right, to people from NYC or other states, "anything" north of the city is "upstate". To people from the rest of the state, it's not :)

I lived most of my life in NY. Broome County. Also known as upstate.

My sister lives in NY. North of Albany. Also known as upstate.

My brother went to school in NY. Buffalo. Also known as upstate.

Really, I know what I'm talking about when I say everything north of NYC is considered upstate.

 

Wikipedia even agrees :)

Edited November 21, 2016 by Hyacinth

[Hyacinth]

nm

Edited November 21, 2016 by Hyacinth

[redsquirrel]

Just so you know, those schools are not " upstate NY". Rochester is central, Albany is capital district, update is Adirondacks & north of them :)

 

Has she looked into Russell Sage in Troy? Lovely little women's college down the hill from RPI.

Troy is becoming quite the trendy town these days, much nicer than when we were there.

 

Good luck!

 

 

As a life long upstate NY'er, anything that isn't in the 5 Burroughs is 'upstate'.  Heck, even the Bronx is considered upstate by some, lol. Westchester is usually considered upstate as is Poughkeesie. Nothing like talking to a friend in Brooklyn and hearing about how they like to go upstate to see family, only to hear they are referring to Chappequa, lol.

 

I've never heard of Rochester included in the 'central' reigon. It's western NY, but sometimes referred to as the 'Rochester/Buffalo region" But Rochester is occasionally included in the adirondacks region, which makes less sense to me. But it's still upstate.

 

Once you get north of the capitol region and are in the Adirondacks, it's the north country, which is where I grew up. The TV and radio stations and stores etc are all 'north country this' and 'north country that'. For example, the public radio station is 'North country public radio' and there is a North Country Community College. And the north country is part of upstate. I might tell someone that I grew up in upstate NY in the north country.

 

 

And to the OP, those are a lot of schools to visit in such a short time. To get from Cornell to SUNY Oneonta is a 2 hour drive. It just seems like a lot. But, you know your limits best,

 

I hope you have a GREAT time checking out schools!

Edited November 21, 2016 by redsquirrel

[FaithManor]

If you can make it into a vacation by giving her a day off after every two college visits, swim in the hotel pool, jacuzzi, lay around with feet propped up, that will help keep the stress down. And some of the campuses are big so lots of walking...important to have rests built in especially when walking in the winter which wears you out more.

[redsquirrel]

Not just you.  That's how lots of people have called it in my experiences.  Which I think is rather useless though because that covers a HUGE area. 

 

Geographically, upstate is huge, but population wise it is dinky, when compared to downstate. I was once told, and this is probably very outdated by now, that if we didn't have downstate and were just upstate, the state of NY would be one of the most rural states in the country.

[MedicMom]

Henrietta is definitely the place to stay (not that I am prejudice because I live there ;) ), easy access to each of the schools (Brockport is about 30 min away) and lots of hotel choices. Most of the hotels are really nice it just depends on the level you want, economy to more luxury.

 

As for the Sticky Lips vs Dinosaur argument I tend to lean towards Dinosaur for flavor. The rub for Sticky Lips can be a little strong sometimes. Love the Fried Green Tomatoes at Dinosaur too. There is a new place in town that I have heard is excellent too. Texas B-B-Q Joint over by RIT. I have only had their pulled pork at an event but it was excellent.

 

The winters are not too bad. If you are from NE you can handle it. You tend to find more snow out by Brockport ( I lived there for almost 10 years) than you do in Henrietta or the city of Rochester. The nice thing is that folks around here know how to take care of the snow. There are lots of opportunities for winter activities too.

 

The other positive thing in the area is Wegman's. Once you shop there you will never want to shop in another grocery store.

 

 

We were just down at Cornell a few months ago. I can say that the parking was horrible in town and the flow of traffic was a little weird. I am sure if we were down there more often it would be a bit easier. I just know dh was ready to get out of there by the end of the day.

No matter how often I drive in Ithaca I cannot get used to the flow of traffic. My kids would like to go to the Sciencenter on a daily basis, and there is so much else there to do, but I have driving anxiety and Ithaca seems to make it worse.

[luuknam]

I've never heard of Rochester included in the 'central' reigon. It's western NY, but sometimes referred to as the 'Rochester/Buffalo region" But Rochester is occasionally included in the adirondacks region, which makes less sense to me. But it's still upstate.

 

I thought it was part of the Finger Lakes region. People in Buffalo don't seem to think Rochester is part of WNY - all the WNY email lists etc exclude Rochester (for good reason - nobody wants to drive that far for a homeschool group or w/e).

 

For example, click on the regional map on this site:

 

http://www.dhses.ny.gov/OEM/about/index.cfm

 

Rochester is in Monroe county - Finger Lakes region.

[whitestavern]

Thank you everyone. There's lots of good advice here; keep it coming, especially places to stay and other things to do to make it more "vacation-y" than just slogging from campus to campus. I know it's a lot, but I think the only places we'll really explore (ie officially tour) are Colgate and Hamilton (which look close to each other), RPI  (forgot to include that in the first post) and RIT and Univ of Rochester. The others we may just literally drive around the campus.If she ends up liking any of those we can always make a trip back to investigate further. We could also skip the Syracuse stop, but it looks to be on the way. Also, if we are "done" towards the end, we could skip Vassar. It's close enough to us that we could make it a day trip from home any time. So in thinking about it, there are really about 5 to visit in a bit over a week.

 

She really wants to see Clarkson, but that's so out of the way it will have to be another trip! Her cousin is there now so maybe I'll bus her up for an overnight at some point.

[FaithManor]

That sounds like a really good plan, Whitestavern.

[whitestavern]

A few of you have mentioned that U Roch is expensive. Are they stingy when it comes to aid? I'm hoping she will qualify for both merit and financial aid. We definitely can't afford sticker price!

[Guest]

If Vassar is a day trip, you might check their calendar and go when there is an interesting speaker or performing artist.

[creekland]

A few of you have mentioned that U Roch is expensive. Are they stingy when it comes to aid? I'm hoping she will qualify for both merit and financial aid. We definitely can't afford sticker price!

 

It seems to depend.  It was the least expensive for my guy, and that includes comparing it to the free tuition offer from U Alabama.  In general, they are pretty darn close to our EFC, but they base aid on the CSS Profile.  Have you run their NPC?

[whitestavern]

It seems to depend.  It was the least expensive for my guy, and that includes comparing it to the free tuition offer from U Alabama.  In general, they are pretty darn close to our EFC, but they base aid on the CSS Profile.  Have you run their NPC?

 

Ugh, I just did the NPC (first time) and they say we can pay $53,000?? I can barely scrape together tuition for our two dc at their high school, which is only about $19,000 after merit and financial aid. DD has taken and will continue to take rigorous classes (all honors and/or AP) has about a 3.8 GPA, varsity letters in 3 sports, volunteers extensively, does mock trial, and is a class representative. Best I could compare her to their merit examples, she will get $0 in merit aid. Is this how competitive it is out there? If so, any ideas on how she can beef up her credentials this year and next? That was a totally depressing exercise :(