Haiku Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I don't think it matters one darned bit what Yan spends the rest of his life thinking. He's a liar, a cheater, a manipulator, and a lout. I think it absolutely was wrong to call. You have now positioned yourself on Zarah's side (and by extension, Yan's side), and Yan has the proof. Not to sound harsh, but at this point the only honorable thing you can do is inform Xena, but I think you have damaged your credibility in that respect And Zarah sounds like no kind of friend at all: 'Cheater-pants is mad at me! Please step in and help save my adulterous relationship!" Get away from this woman before she ruins your life, too. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I think that you have gotten confused on the concepts of lying and truth. "Starting out on a footing of lies" happened years and years ago. At this point you are just helping to perpetuate the lies. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Deleted for privacy. Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 They why you are telling her doesn't matter one bit. Your motive doesn't matter. Her husband is cheating on her, and why someone told her doesn't change that fact. Moreover now you are in the middle of things more than before. This is how drama works, how unhealthy people work. They drag you in, little by little. Remember my analogy before, about how instead of you pulling them out, they pull you in? That is what is happening. Some people thrive on crazy and drama, and you NEED to find a way to set up boundaries. It doesn't help Zhara at all to let yourself get dragged into the drama, it only hurts her and you. Be the sane person on the outside she can go to one day, if and when she wants a normal life. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 What credibility did I used to have? How did I lose it by telling the truth? You no longer look like someone who wants to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. You look like someone who has her own complex motivations, and you look like someone who helped try to save an adulterous relationship. I am sure that you are a very nice person, and we all make mistakes, and even though it is very clear what the right thing to do is in this situation, I can understand how it can be hard to do it. There will be lots of fall-out for everyone involved. But it's not ok to enable their cheating, and with the phone call you stepped firmly into that realm. I encourage you to step back out. Right away. Right now. Yan is not the only person who has to live with himself for the rest of his life. And just to re-iterate: Zarah doesn't care about you. Real friends do not drag their supposed friends into their personal moral morass and then ask for active participation in it. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Deleted Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Deleted Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Good, because now that he knows you know his wife, he's going to start covering up the truth - fast. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Deleted Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Just be honest. Say this is horribly awkward, and I never wanted to be in this position, and there is no good way to do this, but your husband is having an affair with someone I know. It's been going on for x amount of time. I'm so sorry. And then you get the heck out of things with your cheating friends. Honestly, I'd put some distance there. They aren't repenting of their choices, they are flaunting them and involving you in their sin. Friends don't do that. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valley Girl Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Well, I didn't call to help "patch things up" -- I called because, since I am contemplating being a truth-revealer, it didn't make sense to start out in a footing of lies. If I do tell Xena about the affair, I think it matters whether Yan spends the rest of his life believing that, 'That happened because Zarah (who he is in love with) engineered an underhanded plot to blow up his life.' Or because, 'A bystander who knew the truth felt honestly that Xena deserved to know.' That makes a difference to how Yan will view himself, his past, his relationships, his good judgement, etc. I think whatever happens after this, people should have access to at least one telling of the facts (believe them or not). I really didn't think it was the wrong call, but now I'm second-guessing. I can tell you're really struggling here, Bolt. But why does it matter what Yan believes or if he hears the truth about how you know his wife? He doesn't care about truth. If he did, he wouldn't be deluding himself into thinking that betraying his wife and child with someone else is OK. You don't owe him anything. You don't owe it anything to Zarah either. Often times, there's some gray areas in questions of right and wrong, special circumstances or "yes, buts." There aren't any here. These people are cheating. They're lying to an innocent party who stands to get shafted emotionally, financially, and legally (by having to share custody if they divorce) by their actions. Who gives a flip about how Yan views himself? He should worry, he should stew in in his own juices. So should Zarah. This situation is of THEIR making, not yours. Don't allow yourself, your character, and your conscience be used. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I need advice on how to manage to do the telling in an appropriate way. Details? Proof? Vagueness? Plausible deniability? Warmth? Calm? Be direct, and be brief. Remember that it is not your job to be this woman's counselor or lawyer. Don't allow yourself to become another person's crutch. It's likely the wife has her own support system, and you don't need to feel like you have to be the person who helps her make it through. And then you get the heck out of things with your cheating friends. Honestly, I'd put some distance there. They aren't repenting of their choices, they are flaunting them and involving you in their sin. Friends don't do that. This bears repeating. Zarah is not your friend. Hopefully you can already see how she dragged you deeper and deeper into something you know isn't right. Don't allow this to continue. Could you, in good conscience, comfort someone who is devastated because her affair ended? And if she's angry with you, don't even stick around to hear her out. She may try to deflect the blame for her actions onto you. You don't need that!! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I hope the meeting goes well for you, Bolt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Wow Bolt. When I said you had a few days to get your thoughts together I did not anticipate them dragging you further in. I am glad you will tell her immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 What does a cheating, lying, manipulative, entitled, nasty person want with truth? To have it, and not to give it to anyone else. You've just tried to prevent the end of a relationship you don't think should be happening, instead sitting back and letting Yan destroy it. If you are determined to keep this friendship, stay out of it until it's time to bring ice cream around. That phone call was serious enabling. I agree. Why on earth did you call Yan? You're the one enmeshing yourself in the drama. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Deleted Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 You are caught up in all kinds of manipulation and crazy by both of them. :grouphug: You are correct in trying to figure out how you got there and how to get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I'm not that complicated, and maybe I should be. I just called because I had learned that someone believed a simple but painful lie, and I didn't consider there migh be a down side to providing accuracy. I definitely didn't think, "Hey, a random source of pain for a deceitful butt-face. Hooray! The more pain the better, since he is so evil!" It's possible that I felt myself as "misjudged" (as 'someone who would plot with a friend and hurt innocent people on purpose) and wanted to clear my own name (?) but why would I care what Yan thinks of me? Because you have been caught up in the crazy. That's how it works. I'm guessing this is your first drama of this type. The rest of us have been there, done that, and recognize it for what it is. People who court this kind of drama want everyone else to get involved. They drag you in. It happens in small steps until you suddenly realize you are part of the crazy. In your normal life, you wouldn't call a man cheating on his wife to justify how you know his wife, or if or why you plan to out him. There is no benefit to it. But now, you find yourself doing it because your normal has been traded for their crazy. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Bolt, wow! When you get involved in other's drama, you go all in. Ugh! What a mess and I really feel for you. As with many things in life, I think Shakespeare has a fitting quote. Perhaps the following will help you in your thought process with Yan and even Zarah. "O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." Make no mistake that both Zarah and Yan are deceitful and have/are manipulating you and drawing you ever deeper into their web. The best thing you can do right now is snip the spider web and be true to your morals and ethics. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acadie Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 If I do tell Xena about the affair, I think it matters whether Yan spends the rest of his life believing that, 'That happened because Zarah (who he is in love with) engineered an underhanded plot to blow up his life.' Or because, 'A bystander who knew the truth felt honestly that Xena deserved to know.' That makes a difference to how Yan will view himself, his past, his relationships, his good judgement, etc. I think whatever happens after this, people should have access to at least one telling of the facts (believe them or not). It does not matter what Yan thinks. He may be the kind of a person who never takes responsibility for his own actions, and no efforts on your part, or anyone else's, may change that. He does sound like a narcissist, which would be consistent with the way this turn of events makes it all about him--how he feels, what he thinks, whether he can be persuaded to take responsibility etc. Since you acted in this situation by making the call, I'd just start there when you talk Xena. Say you didn't know what to do when you realized you knew all three of them and with Zarah's request that you call, but after making the call it seemed so wrong that you felt a responsibility to tell her. Then, personally, I would exit the mess, unless you and Xena both feel like resurrecting your friendship after that. It's quite possible she's a way cooler person than Yan and Zarah, who keep trampling boundaries and have roped you into their mess. I wouldn't consider Zarah a friend who cares about your interests at all after she involved you in this. Amy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Just be honest. Say this is horribly awkward, and I never wanted to be in this position, and there is no good way to do this, but your husband is having an affair with someone I know. It's been going on for x amount of time. I'm so sorry. And then you get the heck out of things with your cheating friends. Honestly, I'd put some distance there. They aren't repenting of their choices, they are flaunting them and involving you in their sin. Friends don't do that. Yup, just be totally honest. She might be very angry and upset for awhile, but that's a normal response if she is clueless about this going on or feels defensive because she knew something wasn't quite right but was in denial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 bolt, I hope that things go as well as could be hoped for for you in this situation. :grouphug: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Deleted Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Honestly,i don't know that I'd meet her, that might be more awkward. I'd just tell her via message, or call her if she'll give you her number. Ideally call, so that you know buttface isn't just deleting her messages before she sees them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Do you have an alternate way to reach her? Many people I know don't check their FB messages regularly. Email, phone... ? :grouphug: I hope it is over soon. Edited August 13, 2016 by marbel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Deleted Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 She's going to have to suspect what you're going to say after reading your message. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I wouldn't bother meeting. I'd message her now. You don't owe her a meeting. I'd message her "My friend has been having an affair with your husband." Then I'd message friend & the dude & say "I told her. Please don't contact me until you guys sort out your relationships and stop lying to people. I wish you the best but I can't be friends with people who lie & cheat." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Then I'd probably block their calls on your phone & temporarily deactivate your fb or just block them. Extricate yourself and let it die down. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I wouldn't let the cheaters know you told. You never know what the husband might do if he thinks he has time to keep his wife from finding out. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 She asked you to make a phone call to help patch up her adulterous affair? The same one you've been contemplating blowing the lid on? WHY would you make that phone call?? Call the wife and wash your hands of it. Zarah is not your friend. This is not a healthy relationship. Well, don't pile up on bolt. She already said she is in over her head. I would agree to back away quickly and that no real friend would want assistance in keeping her adulterous affair going. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I wouldn't bother meeting. I'd message her now. You don't owe her a meeting. I'd message her "My friend has been having an affair with your husband." Then I'd message friend & the dude & say "I told her. Please don't contact me until you guys sort out your relationships and stop lying to people. I wish you the best but I can't be friends with people who lie & cheat." THIS! Do not meet with this woman. You have been sucked in and you already know you are in farther than you ever wanted to be. Take this good advice from hornblower. Step back and let them sort it out. Maybe you will be friends with none of them afterward, but it can't be any worse than right now! They aren't your friends anyway if they want to entangle you in private business. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Yeah, don't tell the adulteres. Wife may want do some investigating on her own to verify/get proof and confront her husband in her own way and own time, or as I've been surprised to learn here, not at all. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I wouldn't let the cheaters know you told. You never know what the husband might do if he thinks he has time to keep his wife from finding out. ITA and have seen this play out in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Don't leave a message. You will never know if he intercepted it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Bolt, I admire you for trying so hard to do the right thing. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Deleted Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Deleted Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Deleted Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) There's a strong possibility that the message to Xena could be intercepted and deleted through Facebook. Yan sure knew Xena and I had 'friended' pretty swiftly. I wonder if/how he keeps tabs on such things. The message shows as "read" as far as I'm understanding the Facebook messenger codes. Oh, absolutely a possibility. Edited August 13, 2016 by ifIonlyhadabrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samm Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Honestly, I think you've done enough, in a good way. You literally befriended Xena. More importantly, you've offered Xena a way to find the truth. Don't you think circumstances are a bit coincidental? Xena "finds" you, friends you, a flurry of phone calls force you to immediately vet yourself to a couple of weirdos? But now that the cat is 3/4 out the bag, there is total radio silence? Maybe Xena suspected something specific all along, and finally found you as a link. You don't have to instantly architect a defensive gameplan or anything. If someone calls you and sound suicidal, call 911 for them. If someone calls you, let it go to voicemail and deal with them in packets when you can. Or don't. Remember, you're not the one having a crisis. Something tells me you will either get numerous calls or exactly 0. I'm rooting for zero for you. Edited August 13, 2016 by Samm 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 There's a strong possibility that the message to Xena could be intercepted and deleted through Facebook. Yan sure knew Xena and I had 'friended' pretty swiftly. I wonder if/how he keeps tabs on such things. The message shows as "read" as far as I'm understanding the Facebook messenger codes. Right. Very likely. I would not stop until I had a face to face with her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Deleted Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Monday morning, when he is hopefully at work, could you possibly go to the wife and have a face to face? Let her know that you sent a message, didn't know if she read it or someone else did, and that knowing about the affair has had a major impact on you and you needed her to know the truth. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Bolt, you've really been on my heart with this. I'm so sorry you tried to do a loving thing and be a good friend and it has exploded in your face and sucked you in. That's awful and emotionally exhausting, and I hope the whole thing comes to the best resolution it can. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Monday morning, when he is hopefully at work, could you possibly go to the wife and have a face to face? Let her know that you sent a message, didn't know if she read it or someone else did, and that knowing about the affair has had a major impact on you and you needed her to know the truth. Yep. This is what I would do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Bolt, just wanted you to know that I'm thinking about you and praying. (hugs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted August 14, 2016 Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 Thanks! Still no word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Oh, man. That would be so nerve wracking. I would be in knots. You seem to be handling it okay though. Has your friend contacted you either? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted August 14, 2016 Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 (edited) Deleted Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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