Washington DC statehood

[Amira]

Is this an issue you're aware of? Care about? Support? Oppose?

[AK_Mom4]

I have no objection at all if the people of DC vote that they want to become a state. Since that will involve significant transfer of responsibilities from Federal to (new) State control, I suspect it will be a long process.

 

If I lived there, I am not sure I would vote for statehood personally.

[Farrar]

Probably no surprise that I care a lot about this. 

 

Also, I can talk about it nonstop. I have talking points. I dare you all to assert I deserve my disenfranchisement.

 

My general sense is that most people outside of the region know almost nothing about DC statehood or voting rights issues. Nor do they care. I would guess the WTM board, being slightly more educated, might be slightly more informed. 

[Ethel Mertz]

I lived in Washington, DC for 12 years and, unequivocally, support statehood. All DC license plates read: "Taxation without Representation." We had a representative (Eleanor Holmes Norton), but she has no voice or vote in Congress.

[bettyandbob]

I live in Northern VA. I've always supported statehood. It's ridiculous that people live there and have no vote in Congress.

[Farrar]

I'll add... there are other solutions to DC voting issues other than statehood. Retrocession is one. Further constitutional amendments is another.

 

Mind you, I'm in favor of statehood on the whole. However, I'd be okay with other solutions. Any bones they throw us are fine with me.

 

I think the city is doing a better job pushing the issue than they were doing a few years ago. The upcoming budget autonomy vote is a good one, I think. Little steps. I like that they told us not to spend any money to implement legalized marijuana and then we did it anyway. Any time we thumb our noses at them and win, I feel good.

[bettyandbob]

I'll add... there are other solutions to DC voting issues other than statehood. Retrocession is one. Further constitutional amendments is another.

 

Mind you, I'm in favor of statehood on the whole. However, I'd be okay with other solutions. Any bones they throw us are fine with me.

 

I think the city is doing a better job pushing the issue than they were doing a few years ago. The upcoming budget autonomy vote is a good one, I think. Little steps. I like that they told us not to spend any money to implement legalized marijuana and then we did it anyway. Any time we thumb our noses at them and win, I feel good.

It's like Congress is one of those harsh parents who just tries to control, threaten and spank.

[goldberry]

I would like to think otherwise, but I seriously wonder if the resistance to adding new states involves to a large extent the number and the stars on the flag.

[Amira]

Probably no surprise that I care a lot about this.

 

Also, I can talk about it nonstop. I have talking points. I dare you all to assert I deserve my disenfranchisement.

 

My general sense is that most people outside of the region know almost nothing about DC statehood or voting rights issues. Nor do they care. I would guess the WTM board, being slightly more educated, might be slightly more informed.

I completely agree. I don't think the vast majority of Americans know or care about this issue at all and it's rather a big deal.

 

I think it would be really interesting if someone turned it into a national issue because it has a lot of important implications for a lot of people (and not just in DC).

[Farrar]

I would like to think otherwise, but I seriously wonder if the resistance to adding new states involves to a large extent the number and the stars on the flag.

This is a problem of not understanding math or design. 51 is not prime. The flag would look fine. I think the design I saw had alternating numbers in the rows.

 

I've heard this argument and it's one of the more mind boggling.

[Farrar]

I completely agree. I don't think the vast majority of Americans know or care about this issue at all and it's rather a big deal.

 

I think it would be really interesting if someone turned it into a national issue because it has a lot of important implications for a lot of people (and not just in DC).

I thought one of the better shadow rep actions was when they raised money to run political ads in districts where reps who spent lots of time trying to micromanage DC.

[Amira]

Pretty sure it has everything to do with two more Democrats in the Senate.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I have no issue with them gaining statehood or other rights.  I think the reasoning behind DC being separated in the early days is just not much of a reason anymore. 

[BooksandBoys]

I would love to hear your talking points, Farrar.

 

I'm not educated in this, and I only lived in the area for 9 months in college, but I support statehood or (how on earth would this work?) reabsorption by Virginia and Maryland. It's ludicrous that the residents of the nation's Capitol are completely disenfranchised. This should never have happened.

[AmandaVT]

DS just asked me about this the other day. He was wondering which state DC was part of. Which led to a long and confusing explanation on my part that finished with "basically, they're not a state, but should be and there's no reason they're not." I think it's ridiculous that DC isn't a state.

[Caroline]

I like the idea of DC becoming a state. It's my birthplace. I grew up in Maryland, and my mom's best friend lived in DC. I remember how excited she was to get those license plates and was happy when Clinton put them on the limo. I don't think it should be absorbed by either VA or MD. I think the nation's capital should be its own distinct place.

[Farrar]

This is a piece dh wrote about DC rights awhile ago. I think it's a good explainer for anyone who doesn't know much about it. It addresses a lot of the counter-arguments.

 

What is the issue?

Residents of the District of Columbia do not have representation in the Senate or House. Even though D.C. residents pay the highest overall rate of federal income taxes in the nation, and even though more people live in D.C. than in Vermont or Wyoming, and even though more than 200,000 have fought in America’s wars and 5,000 never came home, they have no voice in the federal legislature. D.C. does have a delegate to the House who has limited rights in committees, but no guaranteed vote on legislation. In the Senate, D.C. has no representation at all.

 

Why don’t D.C. residents have federal representation?

In the years after American independence, several cities including New York and Philadelphia were considered as a permanent capital city. Had one of these been chosen, people who lived there would have federal representation. Ultimately, a deal between factions led by Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson led to the constitutional mandate to create a federal district that would be part of no state where the capital city would be placed. It was left to President George Washington to choose the site of this “District of Columbiaâ€, a 10 mile by 10 mile square that incorporated land that had been part of Maryland and Virginia.

 

So the lack of federal representation was intended by the Constitution?

Not really. The site Washington selected included the city of Georgetown, Maryland, as well as part of the city of Alexandria, Virginia. There were a lot of decisions to be made in the creation of a new country, and the drafters of the Constitution simply did not consider the representation anomaly that the creation of the federal District left. After all, the new lines incorporated existing towns, and there had been no talk of disenfranchising residents of other cities that might have been selected as the capital city. The error was noticed early on -- both Hamilton and James Madison quickly said the Constitution should be amended to give D.C. residents representation.

 

But still, the Constitution is the Constitution.

Yes, and it can and has been changed to correct mistakes. The Constitution used to permit owning other people.

 

Do D.C. residents have other voting rights?

Yes, but of a limited capacity, and only at the whim of Congress. Mayors were often either directly elected or elected by a city council in the city’s early years, but in 1874, Congress took over and created a board of commissioners. But in reality, the power in the city was held by the Senate and House committees on D.C. affairs, which were ruled by segregationists up until the 1970s. D.C. became a heavily African-American city in the years leading up to and after the Civil War -- in the 1970s, the city was 70% black -- and many saw the continued denial of representation and even direct election of a local government as a civil rights issue. D.C. residents did get the right to elect a mayor, city council, and board of education in the early 1970s, and have elected seven mayors since then. But even these rights were curtailed in the 1990s, when Congress created a control board that essentially had veto power over any local decision. And Congress still has to approve any local city budget, and has stepped in to block other decisions passed in local votes.

 

So this about race?

In part, yes. The fact that the only part of the United States where residents have no representation is also the only part where a majority of the population was black until recently cannot be overlooked. (D.C. now has no racial majority, with large black, white, Latino, and Asian populations.) But it is now more about party. The demographics of the District make it heavily Democratic. Since 1964, the District has had three electoral votes for president, and the city has always voted overwhelmingly for the Democratic ticket. D.C.’s non-voting congressional delegate has always been a Democrat, and if the District had full representation, it is almost certain that voters would choose two Democratic senators and one Democratic representative. So Republicans have consistently stood in the way of representation.

 

Do Republicans hate D.C.?

No. Rather, it’s just cynical politics. If Democrats could find a way to disenfranchise heavily Republican Wyoming -- which has 70,000 fewer people than the District -- some in that party would certainly try to do so. In fact, some Republicans have been vocal supporters of D.C. representation as a matter of fairness. Former vice presidential nominee Jack Kemp was the most outspoken, but others including Bob Dole, Barry Goldwater, and even ex-segregationist Strom Thurmond have supported representation as well. A 2005 poll found that 77% of registered Republicans nationwide thought D.C. residents deserved representation.

 

But what about Marion Barry?

One argument made recently is that D.C. residents have somehow not “earned†representation because of the re-election of Marion Barry as mayor after his time in prison. But regardless of one’s feelings about Barry, this is a very flawed argument. Boston once re-elected a mayor who was in jail at the time. Four of the last seven governors of Illinois have gone to prison. Forty-nine states voted for Richard Nixon for president at least once, and 24 did three times. (The only places that never did: Massachusetts… and the District of Columbia.) Voters have the right to make whatever choices they like. We do not disenfranchise states or voters because we don’t like who they choose.

 

Can’t you just move?

Sure. But we shouldn’t have to uproot our lives and careers and families just to secure basic rights as Americans. And though D.C. has a reputation as a city of transients, the proportion of residents who were born in D.C. is the same as the proportion of Floridians born in Florida, and of Arizonans born in Arizona. Plus, the D.C. residents who were born in the District are often among the poorer residents, who would have the hardest time making a move.

 

How does D.C.’s situation differ from those of U.S. territories?

The biggest difference: Residents of the District of Columbia must pay federal income taxes. Residents of American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands do not.

 

What solutions have been proposed?

Some support full statehood for D.C., while others support a “statehood equivalent†where D.C. would be considered a state for the purposes of representation. This second option would still give Congress considerable say over local affairs, but would still be a major improvement over the status quo. Another option is retrocession. In the 1840s, the territory of D.C. that had been part of Virginia was returned to that state by Congress, even though this was probably unconstitutional. A retrocession now would return the non-governmental land in D.C. to Maryland, and residents of “Washington, Maryland†would vote for senators and representatives there.

 

Why should I care?

You should care for the same reason you care about the civil rights of any American. Through a series of historical accidents and the aftermath of the legacy of slavery and racism, 700,000 Americans have no voice in their government. It’s unthinkable -- which why that same 2005 poll found that 82% of Americans thought D.C. residents already had representation. You may not like who your neighbor votes for, but you would not try to stop her or him from voting. We in D.C. are your neighbors, and we deserve the same rights you have.

[Amira]

One thing that really galls me is that not only do DC residents not have representation in Congress but pay taxes, pretty much anything its citizens vote for can be blocked by just one person in Congress unless DC pushes back. Shouldn't it just be automatic that DC residents should be able to vote on things without a senator from Utah trying to overturn the vote?

[Farrar]

I find it even more galling that we can't use our own money on things. That's our tax money that random freshman congress members get to tell us we're not allowed to spend on something the people we elected decided to spend it on, or even something that we passed through referendum.

 

And even this thread will be the subject of apathy. I think most people, when explained the plight of DC, agree that it's horrible and undemocratic. But no one really cares.

[Guest]

This is a problem of not understanding math or design. 51 is not prime. The flag would look fine. I think the design I saw had alternating numbers in the rows.

 

I've heard this argument and it's one of the more mind boggling.

I was actually going to say this as a tongue-in-cheek objection. I had no idea people raise this as an *actual* objection.

 

Every time I see one of those license plates, I do think, "Yeah...why is that?!"

[umsami]

It was a big issue for me when I lived in DC.  I never understood why DC didn't have representation as residents of the district pay taxes.  Completely unfair.

[Terabith]

I think it is appalling and ironic that residents of DC are taxed without representation.

[maize]

But...but...but...there's that song...Fifty Nifty United States...it wouldn't work with 51, messes up the meter and rhyme.

 

Case closed.

 

:patriot:

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

What was galling to me was when I called several representatives and senators who espoused "no taxation without representation"-cough, cough- to express my concern about the lack of representation in congress for me and was told that it was my choice to live here :glare: This is hypocritical to me. Or they said well it's in the constitution. Well yeah it was also in the constitution that blacks did not count as full humans! The constitution is a living document and thank goodness we have amended it over the years.

 

Another DC resident called a representative to complain about a problem in DC since I guess all representatives are supposed to be our representatives since we have none and was told that the representative is not our representative!

 

Anyway this needs to be fixed by allowing us representatives and 2 senators or to incorporated into Maryland or VA. Or perhaps, we can pay no federal taxes! In fact, DC paid more in federal taxes last year than 22 states and yet we have no representation! I truly believe the founding fathers did not envision over 600,000 folks having no representation in congress.

Edited June 10, 2016 by NoPlaceLikeHome

[freesia]

DC born and raised here. Farrar's points match mine. Taxation without representation is what we fought the Revolutionary War over, for goodness sakes!

 

And, congress has a say over silly things like speed bumps on the street I grew up on (blocked for years because it was a quick way to commute).

 

And, at least 95% of folks I've met when living elsewhere had NO idea DC folks were taxed without representation and were appalled.

 

And don't get me started on how paternalistic the Marion Barry/ disorganized city argument is. Have we taken away the vote from Detroit yet?

 

It's wrong folks. Either give Washingtonians the vote or don't tax them. Period.

[maize]

I think people outside of the D.C. area tend to think of the issue of statehood as not mattering because it's just one city; most don't realize that the population of D.C. is greater than that of at least a couple of states.

[Guest]

I think people outside of the D.C. area tend to think of the issue of statehood as not mattering because it's just one city; most don't realize that the population of D.C. is greater than that of at least a couple of states.

I think a lot of people outside the DC area have no understanding of what DC is. I have met several people who thought it was part of Maryland.

[Amira]

And this is why we need someone to somehow make this an issue on a national level. Even though national politicians all spend a lot of time in DC, they're not from there. They can't be. No one in Congress has much political reason to support this because their constituencies don't care. Many of them have every reason to not support it. If DC leaders try to make it a national issue, it's not likely to gain much traction in most of the country.

[Amy in NH]

I have been aware of the issue for many years and think it is a real problem that should be be fixed. If they didn't want the U.S. capital to be part of a state, they should not have allowed people to live there.

[Farrar]

I have been aware of the issue for many years and think it is a real problem that should be be fixed. If they didn't want the U.S. capital to be part of a state, they should not have allowed people to live there.

 

And the Founders realized they'd messed up pretty quickly - there were always people living here. But it was never such a huge priority. And it was made even less pressing by the fact that residents in Georgetown and Alexandria kept voting in their original states very early on!

 

The fact that we have writings by people like Madison saying basically, oopsie, we should figure out how to fix this voting thing, is one of the reasons that it makes the whole "intention of the Founders" argument against DC voting makes me extra crazy. It's just an excuse, one preferred by a particular party in general but which also has an obvious calculating political interest in not giving DC the right to vote. Alexander Hamilton didn't want me disenfranchised, silly congressman!

[Lady Florida.]

I have never lived in or near DC but have always supported either statehood or any other solution that gives the residents the same representation as that those of us who live in a state (or commonwealth as some states call themselves). I also support the right of the DC residents to make the choice - whether to be a state or a non-state with equal representation.

[Lady Florida.]

But...but...but...there's that song...Fifty Nifty United States...it wouldn't work with 51, messes up the meter and rhyme.

 

Case closed.

 

:patriot:

 

But what did kids sing before Alaska and Hawaii became states? Perhaps something about the Great Forty-Eight? Surely we can come up with a rhyme for the word one. Or the word two if Puerto Rico ever also becomes a state. :D

[maize]

But what did kids sing before Alaska and Hawaii became states? Perhaps something about the Great Forty-Eight? Surely we can come up with a rhyme for the word one. Or the word two if Puerto Rico ever also becomes a state. :D

 

Fifty-two, in our great state zoo...

 

Uh, OK, maybe not that... ;)

[maize]

I'm quite glad they decided not to keep adding a stripe for each state, we'd have an awfully funny looking flag by now...

[Farrar]

I'm quite glad they decided not to keep adding a stripe for each state, we'd have an awfully funny looking flag by now...

 

It's not as bad as you'd think... http://www.genericise.com/pflag.png

[Farrar]

Also useful. Star designs. You can play with them too:

http://img.slate.com/media/19/flag.swf

[Rachel]

Is this an issue you're aware of? Care about? Support? Oppose?

It is not something I have ever thought about but I'm not opposed to it. People in DC should be able to elect members to Congress. It also seems like Congress should keep its nose out of local affairs.