Jump to content

Menu
Giving You and Your Child a Road Map to the Best Possible Education
The Well-Trained Mind Community

Anyone have experience with early or even precocious puberty in boys?

Carpe Diem

By Carpe Diem,
in The Chat Board

 Share

Recommended Posts

Carpe Diem

Carpe Diem

Posted
Posted

My 10 year old has dark hair above his lip. He is thin. (I know obesity plays a role with girls having early puberty.) I am concerned. Is this a concern? Should I be rushing him to the doctor? He made a comment about other observations with his body. Anyone been through this with words of wisdom? I am concerned he will not reach his full height and other concerns. Thanks.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
StephanieZ

StephanieZ

Posted
Posted

I would get him to the pediatrician ASAP unless he has already had a lot of growth in height. If he was already within 4-6 inches of what you expect to be his full height, I wouldn't worry, but if he is still tiny (like my kids were at that age), then, yes, *I* would have it checked out just in case. (But I am a worrier and like to get the DR insight on anything outside my norms. Plus, my 6'1" 16 yo son who is otherwise fully post-puberty still doesn't shave regularly at all, lol, so that's my personal experience.) It's probably totally normal and fine, but I wouldn't want to risk missing something critical.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChocolateReignRemix

ChocolateReignRemix

Posted
Posted

I would get him to the pediatrician ASAP unless he has already had a lot of growth in height. If he was already within 4-6 inches of what you expect to be his full height, I wouldn't worry, but if he is still tiny (like my kids were at that age), then, yes, *I* would have it checked out just in case. (But I am a worrier and like to get the DR insight on anything outside my norms. Plus, my 6'1" 16 yo son who is otherwise fully post-puberty still doesn't shave regularly at all, lol, so that's my personal experience.) It's probably totally normal and fine, but I wouldn't want to risk missing something critical.

But it is normal. Rushing a kid to the doctor over puberty sounds like a way to develop a complex.

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites
teachermom2834

teachermom2834

Posted
Posted

My very little just turned 13 year old (not even five foot tall, 75 lbs) has been shaving for awhile and needs to shave weekly.  My older kid (who is very hairy) was shaving in 6th grade.  Not just a little hair- actually needed to be shaving regularly.  At 13 he could grow a beard and looked like a college student from the neck up.

 

It would not concern me.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
StephanieZ

StephanieZ

Posted
Posted

But it is normal. Rushing a kid to the doctor over puberty sounds like a way to develop a complex.

 

Well, it might if you told the kid! A 10 year old doesn't generally require or even ask for explanations of why you are going in for a routine DR appointment. 

 

If you just made a pediatrician appointment for well-child (if he's due, as my kids usually were, since I often didn't remember to go in every year), or even just a routine check up . . . And then told the DR to check your kiddo' out . . . that he's starting puberty and you wanted to make sure everything is on track . . . I don't see a complex developing there. I went in for wellness myself last week, and I asked the DR to run blood work for "baseline" because it'd been a while . . .

 

I don't think taking humans in for a "check up" will give the human a complex anymore than taking your car in for a tune up, lol. 

 

I don't think DR visits need to be reserved for when you *know* things are abnormal. I think they can be helpful to track normal development and to catch problems before they become serious.  In the case of OP's son, in my experience, it'd be out of the norm. For a thin caucasian male, I think 10 sounds young to me for facial hair. I'd get it checked out with an overall wellness exam +/- further workup if the DR advises.

 

And, FWIW, IMHO, just because the average age of onset of puberty is now much younger than it was just a generation ago, that does not mean that it is HEALTHY or ideal to enter puberty so early. If it were my kid, I'd want to know why, and I did intentionally do what I could to reduce the risk of this for my own family. FWIW, my 3 kids have each entered puberty around the same ages I and dh did (older than typical now -- more around the norms from 30-50 years ago), and I made a significant effort throughout their lives to do the things I could to avoid things suspected or known to cause to be what I consider to be abnormal development. (Avoided excess weight, nursed for 2+ years each child, maximized healthy time outdoors, minimized chemicals in the home, minimized fake foods, avoided hormones and other chemicals in meat and dairy, use grass fed organic meat, don't cook in plastics or store food in plastics, etc. . . . I won't argue about the risks of any of these specific things, as I really have no certainty about ANY of those things . . . they are just a few random things that I came across reasonable arguments that suggested that doing/avoiding/etc could help my kids, so I've done them. . . I am sure some are bunk and some are probably important.)  

 

The average weight of people is also much higher than it once was, but we mostly agree that average is not ideal for weight . . . So, IMHO, I'd get it checked out. OP asked for opinions, and I offered mine. Feel free to disagree! :) 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChocolateReignRemix

ChocolateReignRemix

Posted
Posted

Well, it might if you told the kid! A 10 year old doesn't generally require or even ask for explanations of why you are going in for a routine DR appointment. 

 

If you just made a pediatrician appointment for well-child (if he's due, as my kids usually were, since I often didn't remember to go in every year), or even just a routine check up . . . And then told the DR to check your kiddo' out . . . that he's starting puberty and you wanted to make sure everything is on track . . . I don't see a complex developing there. I went in for wellness myself last week, and I asked the DR to run blood work for "baseline" because it'd been a while . . .

 

I don't think taking humans in for a "check up" will give the human a complex anymore than taking your car in for a tune up, lol. 

 

I don't think DR visits need to be reserved for when you *know* things are abnormal. I think they can be helpful to track normal development and to catch problems before they become serious.  In the case of OP's son, in my experience, it'd be out of the norm. For a thin caucasian male, I think 10 sounds young to me for facial hair. I'd get it checked out with an overall wellness exam +/- further workup if the DR advises.

 

And, FWIW, IMHO, just because the average age of onset of puberty is now much younger than it was just a generation ago, that does not mean that it is HEALTHY or ideal to enter puberty so early. If it were my kid, I'd want to know why, and I did intentionally do what I could to reduce the risk of this for my own family. FWIW, my 3 kids have each entered puberty around the same ages I and dh did (older than typical now -- more around the norms from 30-50 years ago), and I made a significant effort throughout their lives to do the things I could to avoid things suspected or known to cause to be what I consider to be abnormal development. (Avoided excess weight, nursed for 2+ years each child, maximized healthy time outdoors, minimized chemicals in the home, minimized fake foods, avoided hormones and other chemicals in meat and dairy, use grass fed organic meat, don't cook in plastics or store food in plastics, etc. . . . I won't argue about the risks of any of these specific things, as I really have no certainty about ANY of those things . . . they are just a few random things that I came across reasonable arguments that suggested that doing/avoiding/etc could help my kids, so I've done them. . . I am sure some are bunk and some are probably important.)  

 

The average weight of people is also much higher than it once was, but we mostly agree that average is not ideal for weight . . . So, IMHO, I'd get it checked out. OP asked for opinions, and I offered mine. Feel free to disagree! :)

 

1.) The average age isn't "much lower" than it was a generation ago. The last data I saw had a decline in the average to be around 3-4 months over the past 50 years.

 

2.) There is no ideal age for a normal, healthy child to enter puberty.  That is why there is a wide range of normal.

 

3.) The fact your children entered puberty around the same age as you and your DH is pretty typical.  It is pretty likely nothing you did had a significant impact on puberty for any of your kids and based on your comments my guess is your sources of information on this topic are a bit sketchy.

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites
MegP

MegP

Posted
Posted

Stephanie, even if the mom brought him to the doctor, what would the doctor actually do? Test his testosterone levels?  If they were too high, would you suggest that the OP put him on some sort of medication to stop puberty?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
StephanieZ

StephanieZ

Posted
Posted

Stephanie, even if the mom brought him to the doctor, what would the doctor actually do? Test his testosterone levels?  If they were too high, would you suggest that the OP put him on some sort of medication to stop puberty?

 

 

Goodness gracious, *I* wouldn't suggest anything at all. I'd leave that to the doctors. I have no idea what may or may not be considered or advisable medically, as I've never faced this issue myself. 

 

FWIW, here is one (of many) article detailing changes in puberty age in the last 100 years or so. The shift to younger ages for puberty is not at all insignificant. It is *years* earlier than a century ago . . . (and note that the Fig 1 chart only goes through 20-30 years ago, during which time the shift has continued if not accelerated.) This particular article also discusses the problems associated with a dis-harmony between "social puberty" and "physical puberty"  If it were my kid, and they were facing the physical changes of puberty very young, well before they had the "maturity" of a teen (lol) to handle the stresses of puberty, including the associated hormone surges and sexual urges, I'd want to think through these issues to help best support my kid emotionally and socially. Puberty is hard enough at age 13-16. At age 9-11, it'd be that much harder, I'd imagine. Personally, if my kids had entered puberty that early, I'd have had to tweak my timing for various "talks" . . . among other things. 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2465479/

 

 

:leaving:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
lewber

lewber

Posted
Posted

If it's just the hair on his lip that might not mean he's beginning puberty. DS is almost 14 and hasn't gone full on into puberty, but he could have shaved at that age ( he didn't, but he could have) Some kids are just hairy and dark hair on pale skin is more noticeable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChocolateReignRemix

ChocolateReignRemix

Posted
Posted

Goodness gracious, *I* wouldn't suggest anything at all. I'd leave that to the doctors. I have no idea what may or may not be considered or advisable medically, as I've never faced this issue myself. 

 

FWIW, here is one (of many) article detailing changes in puberty age in the last 100 years or so. The shift to younger ages for puberty is not at all insignificant. It is *years* earlier than a century ago . . . (and note that the Fig 1 chart only goes through 20-30 years ago, during which time the shift has continued if not accelerated.) This particular article also discusses the problems associated with a dis-harmony between "social puberty" and "physical puberty"  If it were my kid, and they were facing the physical changes of puberty very young, well before they had the "maturity" of a teen (lol) to handle the stresses of puberty, including the associated hormone surges and sexual urges, I'd want to think through these issues to help best support my kid emotionally and socially. Puberty is hard enough at age 13-16. At age 9-11, it'd be that much harder, I'd imagine. Personally, if my kids had entered puberty that early, I'd have had to tweak my timing for various "talks" . . . among other things. 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2465479/

 

 

:leaving:

 

There has been a significant drop in the past century plus, but your initial statement was regrading the past generation.  The change in the past 20-30 years has been much less dramatic.  And as noted by your link, part of the decline is related to better childhood nutrition and fewer childhood infections.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tanaqui

Tanaqui

Posted
Posted (edited)
Well, it might if you told the kid! A 10 year old doesn't generally require or even ask for explanations of why you are going in for a routine DR appointment.

 

Perhaps yours doesn't, but we always tell the kids why we're going to the doctor, and we encourage them to bring up their own concerns with the doctor and ask their own questions. At ten, both girls have been expected to be able to explain why they're there to the doctor rather than asking us to do it. If I suddenly brought them to the doctor without explaining why, and it wasn't time for their regular check-up, they'd want to know why.

 

FWIW, here is one (of many) article detailing changes in puberty age in the last 100 years or so. The shift to younger ages for puberty is not at all insignificant. It is *years* earlier than a century ago . . . (and note that the Fig 1 chart only goes through 20-30 years ago, during which time the shift has continued if not accelerated.)

 

Stephanie, do you know where they got their data for the age of puberty prior to 1900? Or even after 1900, when it comes to that.

 

I've been trying to work out how they got this information, but I'm not having much luck. The best source I could find was Reddit.

Edited by Tanaqui
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChocolateReignRemix

ChocolateReignRemix

Posted
Posted

Perhaps yours doesn't, but we always tell the kids why we're going to the doctor, and we encourage them to bring up their own concerns with the doctor and ask their own questions. At ten, both girls have been expected to be able to explain why they're there to the doctor rather than asking us to do it. If I suddenly brought them to the doctor without explaining why, and it wasn't time for their regular check-up, they'd want to know why.

 

 

Stephanie, do you know where they got their data for the age of puberty prior to 1900? Or even after 1900, when it comes to that.

 

I've been trying to work out how they got this information, but I'm not having much luck. The best source I could find was Reddit.

 

There is a significant data issue on this topic. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChocolateReignRemix

ChocolateReignRemix

Posted
Posted

That article is an editorial written by people without MDs or PhDs and full of suppositions with no evidence.

 

i don't know if there are actual, legitimate studies in this topic, but this is not one.

 

:leaving:

 

There are a few.  The issue has always been comparing data that isn't consistent over time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
StephanieZ

StephanieZ

Posted
Posted

That article is an editorial written by people without MDs or PhDs and full of suppositions with no evidence.

 

i don't know if there are actual, legitimate studies in this topic, but this is not one.

 

:leaving:

 

I have no idea how you come to the conclusion that the authors do not have academic degrees. What would make you think that?

 

A quick google found several bios for the lead author, and he certainly appears to have very strong academic credentials. 

 

http://dcp-3.org/author/mark-bellis

 

http://www.cph.org.uk/people/professormarkbellis/

 

http://www.who.int/violenceprevention/about/participants/cph/en/

 

I didn't bother googling the other authors, but I am very confident you are incorrect in this statement.

 

Having a research science background, I am familiar enough with academic publishing to know that the authors would not have their credentials listed on papers, and that it is extraordinarily unlikely that someone with the number of very reputable publications as Bellis has would not have strong academic credentials. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
StephanieZ

StephanieZ

Posted
Posted

Perhaps yours doesn't, but we always tell the kids why we're going to the doctor, and we encourage them to bring up their own concerns with the doctor and ask their own questions. At ten, both girls have been expected to be able to explain why they're there to the doctor rather than asking us to do it. If I suddenly brought them to the doctor without explaining why, and it wasn't time for their regular check-up, they'd want to know why.

 

 

Stephanie, do you know where they got their data for the age of puberty prior to 1900? Or even after 1900, when it comes to that.

 

I've been trying to work out how they got this information, but I'm not having much luck. The best source I could find was Reddit.

 

The Reference section of the article lists numerous sources. Presumably from some of those. 

 

For fun, maybe someone should email Mark Bellis. (Email addy is on the above links.) My guess is that he'd be rather amused by homeschooling moms researching this topic and cooperative in sharing both his CV (and those of the other authors) as well as explaining the data sets used. I bet he'd get a bang out of it. :) If I'm wrong about his credentials, I'll be the first to say I'm wrong, but I don't think I'm wrong. *I* wouldn't do it, but I'm not in doubt of his qualifications, lol.

 

 

References
1. Hermanâ€Giddens M E. Recent data on pubertal milestones in United States children: the secular trend towards earlier development. Int J Androl 200629241  [PubMed]
2. Anderson S E, Must A. Interpreting the continued decline in the average age at menarche: results from two nationally representative surveys of U.S. girls studied 10 years apart. J Pediatr 2005753–760.760 [PubMed]
3. Anderson S E, Dallal G E, Must A. Relative weight and race influence average age at menarche: results from two nationally representative surveys of U.S. girls studied 25 years apart. Pediatrics 2003111844–850.850  [PubMed]
4. Bodzsar E B, Susanne C. eds. Secular growth changes in Europe. Budapest, Hungary: Eotovos University Press, 1998
5. Tanner J M. Trend towards earlier menarche in London, Oslo, Copenhagen, the Netherlands and Hungary. Nature 197324395–96.96  [PubMed]
6. Whincup P H, Gilg J A, Taylor S J C. et al Age of menarche in contemporary British teenagers: survey of girls born between 1982 and 1986. BMJ 20013221095–1096.1096 [PMC free article]  [PubMed]
7. Gluckman P D, Hanson M A. Evolution, development and timing of puberty. Trends Endocrinol Metab2006177–12.12  [PubMed]
8. Parent A, Teilmann G, Juul A. et al The timing of normal puberty and age limits of sexual precocity: variations around the world, secular trends, and changes after migration. Endocr Rev 200325668–693.693 [PubMed]
9. Office of National Statistics, England, 2005. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/(accessed 11 2006) 
10. Brown J D, Tucker Halpern C, Ladin L'Engle K. Mass Media as a sexual peer for early maturing girls. J Adolesc Health 200536420–427.427  [PubMed]
11. Finkelstein J W, Von Eye A, Preece M A. The relationship between aggressive behaviour and puberty in normal adolescents: a longitudinal study. J Adolesc Health 199415319–326.326  [PubMed]
12. Kinsman S B, Romer D, Furstenberg F F. et al Early sexual initiation: the role of the peer norms. Pediatrics 19981021185–1192.1192  [PubMed]
13. Wellings K, Nanchahal K, Macdowall W. et al Sexual behaviour in Britain: early heterosexual experience. Lancet 20013581843–1850.1850  [PubMed]
14. Krug E G, Dahlberg L L, Mercy J A. et al eds. World Report on violence and health. Geneva: World Health Organisation, 2002
15. De Muinck Keizerâ€Schrama, Mul D. Trend in pubertal development in Europe. Eur Soc Hum Reprod Embryol 20017287–291.291
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites
StephanieZ

StephanieZ

Posted
Posted

ps. Editorials in academic journals are controlled by and typically authored by the lead editors of those same journals. One doesn't become an editor of an academic journal without being a leader in the field, with strong academic credentials and numerous prestigious publications. Being an editor is typically considered quite an honor, actually. The editors aren't the grunts who put commas where they go . . . they're the lead thinkers in the field. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
StephanieZ

StephanieZ

Posted
Posted

There has been a significant drop in the past century plus, but your initial statement was regrading the past generation.  The change in the past 20-30 years has been much less dramatic.  And as noted by your link, part of the decline is related to better childhood nutrition and fewer childhood infections.

 

Alrighty, I think this is the crux of our different perspectives. I'm a biologist. I think of shifts in populations over evolutionary time. To me, a few months change in 30-50 years is huge unless explained by something obvious (starvation/not, etc.) and there is no such obvious (healthy) explanation for a shift of a few months in the last 30-50 years in the western world. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TCB

TCB

Posted
Posted

Stephanie, even if the mom brought him to the doctor, what would the doctor actually do? Test his testosterone levels?  If they were too high, would you suggest that the OP put him on some sort of medication to stop puberty?

 

 

Actually there are some very good reasons for treating precocious puberty. One of these is height, but there are others.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChocolateReignRemix

ChocolateReignRemix

Posted
Posted

Alrighty, I think this is the crux of our different perspectives. I'm a biologist. I think of shifts in populations over evolutionary time. To me, a few months change in 30-50 years is huge unless explained by something obvious (starvation/not, etc.) and there is no such obvious (healthy) explanation for a shift of a few months in the last 30-50 years in the western world. 

 

Except there are still some data issues on certain population groups, and there have been certain variables that we know affect puberty (calories and nutrition for starters) that have changed that are likely culprits.  There is no evidence that outdoor time or plastics are a cause of the shift.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Joker

Joker

Posted
Posted

I wouldn't freak out but I also wouldn't stress about taking him to the doctor if you're worried. I was a late one to hit puberty but was still the shortest in my FOO (and also in my now family). 

 

Both of my dds were early compared to me (me at 14 but both dds at 11) but not so early compared to the women in dh's family (usually at 9). Both dds are still a good two inches taller than me and one is still growing. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 5 years later...
Mummakate

Mummakate

Posted
Posted

Hello, 

 

I just wondered if anyones son at aged 8 started puberty. My son is now 9 and is developing quickly.  The pedatrician has sent jack for test. I feel abit worried and wondered if anyone else has been through this and the outcome now and if older please? Ive read delay medicines may be involved which im also worroed about the later effect of them? Has anyones son had to have them?

Thank you

kate

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Terabith

Terabith

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Mummakate said:

Hello, 

 

I just wondered if anyones son at aged 8 started puberty. My son is now 9 and is developing quickly.  The pedatrician has sent jack for test. I feel abit worried and wondered if anyone else has been through this and the outcome now and if older please? Ive read delay medicines may be involved which im also worroed about the later effect of them? Has anyones son had to have them?

Thank you

kate

This is a zombie thread, but I do think I would take my 8 year old to an endocrinologist if they had signs of puberty.  I wouldn't be panicking, but I think it's prudent to do some tests.  The delay medications have been in use for several decades now, and I would have no qualms about using them.  

I am female, but had true precocious puberty.  My mom did not elect to use the delay medications, because at the time (35 years ago) they were relatively new.  I am about six inches shorter than my expected height.  (My sister is 6'1", and I was expected to be about that too,) but at 5'7", I quite like my height.  The social and emotional ramifications of precocious puberty are real, and I would not hesitate to use them on my own children if warranted.  (They weren't, but my youngest was on the younger side of normal, and we investigated, but she was fine.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...