heartlikealion Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I don't think "actual harm" (whatever that is) is the threshold in a case like this. I might as well go get naked in the men's locker room since it is not going to "actually harm" them. I agree. If I went to someone's home and needed to use the restroom I would close the door. People just expect a certain level of privacy in situations involving bathrooms or fitting rooms or locker rooms. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I agree. If I went to someone's home and needed to use the restroom I would close the door. People just expect a certain level of privacy in situations involving bathrooms or fitting rooms or locker rooms. Hey, my DS got bored waiting for you to finish, so I just sent him in the powder room with you to pee in the sink. You were cool with that, right? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I want to know why people are so busy trying to guess the ages of random kids in the change room. I go in, I focus on getting out of my swimmers, dried, into my clothes and packed up. I'm not even looking at anything other than the wall where my clothes are hanging. I'm certainly not making sure to check out all the other people in the change room. It makes them uncomfortable. It's not looking for problems. It's having a problem forced on them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Which is why having reasonable age limits is not the extreme view you think it is. Your right to get changed in same sex privacy doesn't trump all other rights. I sincerely hope you are agitating for extra family rooms, and spaces for moms with boys who have delays or are autistic or have other needs that make sending them off at 2 or 4 or 6 not possible...because otherwise it's a simple case of you valuing your convenience over that of other families...pot meet kettle, in other words. Wanting to not be looked at by 10 year old boys when naked is..... convenience? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Sigh. Toileting is different to getting changed. True. But if I was a guest in a house I would also expect no one to walk in while I was getting out of the shower, either! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Sigh. Toileting is different to getting changed. How is it that different from showering? At least on the toilet, people are mostly clothed. Unless it's George Costanza. The issue isn't only the activity. It's the notice and expectation of privacy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Oh for the love of Zeus. Here we go again with "back in the good old days...". And puberty has been mentioned from the very beginning of this thread, not brought up by Sadie. Goodness, we had someone say she'd be shrieking at the little boys in the women's locker room. If I weren't on my phone i'd look it up. I am all for body autonomy for all people. I'm also for parents being reasonable and guiding their children in appropriate responses in these situations. I understand that girls at certain ages feel uncomfortable being seen dressing by other people, especially boys at certain ages. I also understand that many women have experienced abuse and don't feel comfortable being seen by people while getting dressed. But being seen in various states of undress by young boys being brought in by their mothers is not actually harming you. Afaik, there isn't an epidemic of boys going into women's dressing rooms to stare at people getting dressed. I think this thread has now officially jumped the shark. You understand that there are many women feel uncomfortable being undressed in the presence of older boys-- when in a ]safe space like a women's changing room -- and sometimes that unease or fear is to past abuse, but it's not actually harming them? I'm curious what your criteria is for harm? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Actually, my suggested age is 8. You could flip the whole thing and suggest that mothers and girls who need more privacy than that, line up to use the ( limited) facilities that offer privacy, leaving the more open areas for people who don't need it. There's no law of physics that says women and girls uncomfortable with male children should automatically get access to the largest change space. I'm sorry, but a seven year old boy in a change room with his mom is not a threat. My personal preferred option is a whole lot more changing choices, and for pools to become a lot more family friendly. My son is 7. I take him into the restroom with me sometimes, but we're not walking in on a woman dressing when he waits off to the side. Seven was not the age in question originally, though. I think it was the kid around 10? I don't know that anyone is arguing for the larger space, just for people to follow the signs. I'm not really sure how the family room works. I was under the impression it works like a family bathroom where only ONE family goes in at a time. So either way, you're not mixing random boys and girls or men and women together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Apples and oranges. huh? I have expectations to not be walked in while I'm in places that are normally a closed door policy place. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 lol, I think I've run out of energy to argue this one. I know the original age was 10. But I said very clearly that I thought 8 was a good upper limit compromise. I didn't take my 10 year old boy into the women's change area. I did take him in when he was around 7 though ( wasn't breaking any rules, it was OK for under 8). I honestly don't see people getting het up about it where I live. There aren't a lot of older boys in there ( say, the 8 year olds ) and mostly I think if there are people just assume they need extra help for some reason. The old ladies are the most shameless in our changing rooms! Golly! It's an education at times. They certainly aren't bothered. There aren't enough family change areas to really accommodate families with boys over 5 or 6. And general consensus where I live is that 5 or 6 is too young for the men's change rooms. Ideally there would be options for all, from full privacy to 'I don't care, whatever is quickest'. lol sorry. I was suggesting that because this was a real boy, not a hypothetical one, that yes, he should have gone somewhere else rather than the ladies' room. We can't just wish him to be 7 or 8 and say well it's fine. He's too old. Get out! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I would draw the line earlier but maybe that's because I have a nephew under 10 that I wouldn't dress in front of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Actually, my suggested age is 8. You could flip the whole thing and suggest that mothers and girls who need more privacy than that, line up to use the ( limited) facilities that offer privacy, leaving the more open areas for people who don't need it. There's no law of physics that says women and girls uncomfortable with male children should automatically get access to the largest change space. Economically and logistically it makes a lot more sense to design the big room for the majority preference and the separate private rooms for the minority. Maybe where you live the majority wants the level of freedom you propose here; fine, but where many of us live, the majority care more for privacy. There isn't enough funding to build enough private changing rooms for everyone who doesn't want to share their changing space with a school-aged boy. Or if there is, it would be better spent on something more valuable to the group overall. Besides, there is the consideration of what is best for the school-aged boy himself. For many if not most, it is developmentally inappropriate and downright awkward for them to accompany their moms to the changing room. I think it is a bad idea to try to normalize something that frankly infantilizes half-grown children. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I'm sorry, but a seven year old boy in a change room with his mom is not a threat. That's not healthy thinking. I don't think anyone said he was a threat. But since you brought up threats, it seems likely to me that this whole thread happened because of one mom's irrational belief that her boy changing in the men's locker room is a threat. In fact, that is usually the reason given for older boys in ladies' rooms. IMO that's not healthy thinking, either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 What I don't like is this idea that young boys are automatically embarassing or threatening or inappropriate. Ds always changed facing the wall, and he didn't stare at anyone, 'cos staring is rude. He wasn't running around dangling his dangly bits and trying to get a glimpse of boobie. When he was done, I sent him out to wait for me. So he wasn't hanging around fully dressed in there either. Well I'm glad your DS didn't stare at anyone, but some of us have had different experiences. I'm not talking about kids running around dangling their dangly bits. I'm saying, like a PP said, my daughters and I are not some young schoolboy's anatomy lesson. That's not appropriate where I live. I really don't care if it's expected halfway around the globe. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) What an odd thread... For the record, I am most totally uninhibited about nakedness and always have been. DD walked by the hallway just this morning and said, "Gosh, mom. can't you close the door when you're getting dressed?" When DD was 6, we went to a pool that had Womens and Mens, and a couple of family rooms. The age rule there was 6. A mom there consistently brought her at least 8 year old boy into the dressing room. DD was 6 and was horribly uncomfortable with him being in there. Also, as someone else mentioned, this boy HAD NOT been taught to not stare at people, and mom never seemed to notice. DD had seen numerous younger children in there and never had a problem. Something changes at a certain point and it's not about puberty. It seems more about.. awareness maybe? I've seen 4 year old little boys and they are totally clueless and focused on how fast they can get changed (or fight getting changed) or whatever else is going on. But there is some point where it changes. And it's definitely before 10. You hope that moms would be aware of it enough in their own kids, but clearly that doesn't happen always. That's why there have to be age rules. DD was really uncomfortable with a boy quite larger than her staring at her while she changed. What message should I send to DD? That she has no right to expect women only in the Women's Dressing Room? That her own feelings about privacy were wrong and she should get over it? That her feelings are in fact not about bodily integrity and autonomy but just "convenience" and that she shouldn't "inconvenience" others? Damned if I'm sending THAT message to my daughter. I find it interesting that in other areas we support women being able to draw the line when it comes to their privacy or bodies, but in this case women and girls are being accused of being squeamish, socially prudish, or selfish. Edited January 31, 2016 by goldberry 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Actually, my suggested age is 8. You could flip the whole thing and suggest that mothers and girls who need more privacy than that, line up to use the ( limited) facilities that offer privacy, leaving the more open areas for people who don't need it. There's no law of physics that says women and girls uncomfortable with male children should automatically get access to the largest change space. I'm sorry, but a seven year old boy in a change room with his mom is not a threat. That's not healthy thinking. My personal preferred option is a whole lot more changing choices, and for pools to become a lot more family friendly. These are all businesses. Pools with changing room. If you do not like how it's set up, pick a different gym. Boycott it. Petition to change the rules. There are lots and lots of options other than "I'll do what I want and I don't care if other girls/ women don't like it, they are wrong to be uncomfortable anyway". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJoy Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 AndyJoy, you're going to have some work to do the next time you see this woman. You'll need to do some sleuthing to find out exactly how old her kids are, what she has against the family rooms, whether she's liberal or conservative, etc. We're going to be expecting some answers next week :lol: LOL, I'm definitely going to try to figure out his age if I can. For the record, this changing room is not full of lounging naked women. There is an 18+ changing room upstairs that I never get to use because my kids are always with me. This one is on the ground floor so it is mostly used by moms with preschoolers, unaccompanied girls 6-17, afterschool daycare kids with a chaperone, and elderly women in aquatics classes who don't feel confident navigating the stairs. They usually change while facing lockers, but the location of the poolside entrance put one woman (the one who protested) right in this boy's view as he walked in. She was facing a locker, but it was next to the entrance door, right in the path of the changing stalls. He walked in and was facing her less than 10 ft away. I forgot to mention that he actually walked in first, with mom and little brother behind. Mom didn't even poke her head in to survey the room, give a heads up, or even confirm that a closed changing room was available! I wonder what she would have done if they had all been full! The elderly woman didn't jump or yell or anything; she was calm but forceful when she stated he was too old to be in there (as he clearly was, per gym policy). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) And definitely - if concerned about privacy, lobby for more family space. That's what will help. Except that in the OP's situation, and in the situations I've personally experienced, there was no shortage of family changing rooms. Something else was driving these moms' decision. Edited January 31, 2016 by SKL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutingmom Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 . The way you describe her makes her sound like a bitch. Maybe we can agree on something. For pete sake, she should use the available family room. Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Are pools all private in the US ? Here they are mostly council run. It varies. In some cities they are completely public and free - but often that means only outdoor pools, which are only open in the summer time. Some are completely private / club owned. Many are in between. In my city, the rec center was built and is partially supported out of tax money, but to use it outside of lessons, one must buy a membership (reasonable $400/year fee for a family). There isn't an unlimited budget for remodeling the facility to offer every possible option for comfort and privacy. I would prefer to have changing stalls with doors or curtains, but we don't have that. We do have separate showers with curtains, but you can't change in there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJoy Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) It varies. In some cities they are completely public and free - but often that means only outdoor pools, which are only open in the summer time. Some are completely private / club owned. Many are in between. In my city, the rec center was built and is partially supported out of tax money, but to use it outside of lessons, one must buy a membership (reasonable $400/year fee for a family). There isn't an unlimited budget for remodeling the facility to offer every possible option for comfort and privacy. I would prefer to have changing stalls with doors or curtains, but we don't have that. We do have separate showers with curtains, but you can't change in there. This one was built with donations, pre-sold memberships, and some tax money 20+ years ago before family bathrooms were a common thing, in this area at least. It is the city rec center, but unlike those in neighboring cities, it is self-supporting from facility rental fees, program fees, drop-in day rate/punch card fees, and memberships ($699 annually for a family, which is significantly cheaper than the various YMCAs and private gyms). Edited January 31, 2016 by AndyJoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogger Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) It makes sense that a little girl becoming aware of her body and differences doesn't want a peer or even older boy to see her undress. As adult women it is "just a little boy" but that is not true for her. It is a peer. Secondly, there has been a lot of discussions about choices but in this case there was no choice on behalf of all the girls and woman already in the locker room. They could choose to wait in a long line for a family restroom but they made a choice on the women's locker room based on certain expectations and social norms and very specific rules and so they really didn't get a choice. If I went to a different country with a very different culture I would be expected to follow their rules and social norms to the best of my ability even if I disagreed with them. That is how humans get along with one another. I'm not very legalistic and would be glad to help out a mom who was struggling with an older boy who couldn't follow one rule or another (haven't seen a locker room incident despite having no family rooms that I know of in the pools I go to) but to just prance in without warning or asking or consideration when the rules specifically state otherwise seems pretty unfair. If my daughter didn't like dressing in front of boys and that was the norm than at least we could make that decision knowingly. Perhaps we would choose to wait in line for a private room, perhaps choose another pool, perhaps I would hold a towel up across a corner of the room so she could have her privacy but that is not the situation the OP mentioned. How can people make decisions without some set of norms or expectations of what the consequences of those decisions will be? I think the age our society accepts as the ok age to enter a locker room is actually a completly different argument. Edited January 31, 2016 by frogger 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Going to the bathroom in a swimsuit, and pulling it back up after, is an issue. (For me too!) I have always told my kids to go to the toilet right before swimming, so that hasn't been an issue for us unless we were swimming for hours. It's not uncommon for my 5yo to need to use the restroom at some point within the first half hour of being in the pool, even after he's gone right before getting in the pool. Personally, I can last longer than that, but the cold water does increase the need to go, often within an hour. Side note for a laugh. When I sent my third child (around 4 if I remember right) to the men's lockers with his big brother he had an issue with shorts being twisted around in a knot. He didn't ask his brother for help though. I can't remember the minute details but I very well remembered he did about it. He did what seemed natural. He left the men's bare butt naked and stood out on the side of the pool looking for me shorts in hand and when he didn't find me came into the women's (where he'd dressed the previous year) and asked for help. As a ten year old he wouldn't dream of doing such things but every mom there just thought it was funny. He was obviously oblivious not out to sneak a peek. For another laugh: When my oldest was 7 he was done with his swimming lesson and I was not there (I was on the treadmill, and the clock in the two rooms were different, so I was 2 min late), so he started to pull his swim shorts down right next to the pool to get changed, right in front of benches full of parents and kids (who quickly told him to stop that and wait, lol). I got there, and told him to go into the locker room. He could handle the locker room on his own, he had his bag, he just needed to be told to go into the locker room. That's HFA for ya. The example in the op was about a child that looked 10 but may be younger. Now he's described as a tween which could be up to 13. SMH. As others have pointed out, a 10yo is a tween. That said, if the OP's best guess was 10yo, and she was willing to give leeway down to 8yo if the kid was exceptionally big for his age, we probably should also give him leeway up to 12yo or so if he were exceptionally small for his age. Someone else mentioned some ridiculous guesses made by people about her kid's age, but did those people have kids? The OP has kids about that age, so she's more likely to be able to make a somewhat accurate guess than someone who doesn't have kids or whose kids are 50yo or w/e. Nothing probably. I'm just annoyed that anyone would think hyper-conservative WTM is a good indicator of anything, other than homeschooling and maybe even not then. In case you haven't noticed, it's not just hyper-conservative people saying she should've taken him into the family changing room. I'm European (seems relevant since people keep using that word in this thread), and have never been called hyper-conservative by anyone. My kids see me and my wife naked at home at times (walking from bedroom to bathroom for example). That doesn't mean that I think it's a good idea to drag a 10yo into the women's locker room when the posted age limit is 5yo, or worse, to stay in the women's locker room even after a woman has complained about it. At 10yo, boys really should be taught stuff like "no means no" and all that. That doesn't mean that I think a 10yo is a threat - but that 10yo who's taught to ignore women's wishes regarding her body etc is more likely to grow up to become a threat later than a 10yo who is taught to respect women's wishes regarding her body (and yes, you can substitute 8yo if you prefer). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valley Girl Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) Unfortunately, there are always going to be people who, for whatever reason, feel the rules don't apply to them. While it's fine to give people the benefit of the doubt, I don't think it's always required. Sometimes actions are just rude and disrespectful of others. Going back to the OP. violating written policy when you have other options available is rude. A reasonable accommodation was available and rejected by the woman in question. According to AndyJoy, the woman didn't use the alternative that was available for her specific family situation... didn't give anyone notice she was bringing in a child who shouldn't even be in the locker room so the women could cover up if they chose... didn't apologize for ignoring the other patrons' reasonable expectation of privacy based on the posted sign ... and flat-out lied when confronted. As far as I'm concerned, she doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt at that point. I'm really kind of surprised at some of the reponses here (as others may be by responses like mine). Rules exist in the gym to keep things running smoothly for the majority of people. Just because some people don't like the rules--even for a "good" reason--doesn't mean they're absolved from following them. There are plenty of rules I don't like. There are plenty of rules I think are downright stupid. But if I want to participate in a given activity or program, I either have to follow them or discuss the issue BEFOREHAND with the appropriate staff. The burden is on me. And before anyone says I don't know what it's like, I have a kid who has special needs. I've been there. I continue to be there. Thumbing my nose at the rules--as that woman did--and deciding my needs trump everybody else's very basic and recognized expectation of privacy (again, based on posted policy) is selfish. There, I said it. Yes, I'm judgmental about it. I can live with that. Edited to correct spelling. If I'm going to be judgmental about something, I should at least be able to spell the word correctly. Edited January 31, 2016 by Reluctant Homeschooler 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Seriously, it's preference. If you are going to claim 'developmentally inappropriate' you'd darn well better add some citations to prove it. I don't think it's harmful for boys to be in the locker rooms. But it's not about boys. It's about girls and women. Who, if going into a room that says is for women and young boys only, are perfectly within reason to expect that room to be full of women and young boys. Yes, pools in my area are private, for the most part. Public pools tend to be almost entirely for kids and have far more privacy stalls and family rooms than private gyms. I've based my comments here on my experiences with private pools / gyms. The culture in such places is such that I'd feel free to get changed, being naked from the top up or bottom down, without a privacy stall. There often aren't privacy stalls. Anyone who walks in typically does so heads-down, with a goal of getting herself changed. Kids don't follow that social norm because.... they're kids. And that break against social expectations is the crux of this thread. Women or girls feeling unfairly exposed due to a 'surprise guest' in the room. It's not sexual, but it is privacy and can feel like a violation. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristi26 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 So what ended up happening with this OP? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 For the record, around the house I'm nursing my baby, my older boys see boobs and nudity because it's part of life in a family in a shared house. I'm not wearing a turtleneck all day long and hiding in the bedroom when I need to feed the baby, and I have to leave the bathroom door open to hear the toddler. It's not about my personal comfort level at all. dudeling had a hard time nursing - so it was a major production for the first couple months. 2ds refused to so much as walk through the room I was in - and if he was forced to, he averted his face and covered his eyes. it made him profoundly uncomfortable. 1ds . . . he'd walk right up to me, and pull the blanket aside so he could see dudeling's face . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 dudeling had a hard time nursing - so it was a major production for the first couple months. 2ds refused to so much as walk through the room I was in - and if he was forced to, he averted his face and covered his eyes. it made him profoundly uncomfortable. 1ds . . . he'd walk right up to me, and pull the blanket aside so he could see dudeling's face . . . . I think nursing in front of ds makes dh more uncomfortable than any of us. Sometimes I nurse in another room, but not always. Yes, I have nursed in public, but I don't think it's quite the same as the locker room situation. Maybe if there were a group of men and I sat down right next to them to nurse it would be somewhat comparable as far as comfort level boundaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I think nursing in front of ds makes dh more uncomfortable than any of us. Sometimes I nurse in another room, but not always. Yes, I have nursed in public, but I don't think it's quite the same as the locker room situation. Maybe if there were a group of men and I sat down right next to them to nurse it would be somewhat comparable as far as comfort level boundaries. It's also you choosing to nurse in that location. You are the one with the boob out. I don't think the person who mentioned harm was talking about harm from looking at old lady bits. It may have been in the other thread, but she was talking about harming kids by over-babying them and not letting them do things on their own. If I dragged my 10yo DS in a ladies' locker room, it would harm our relationship for sure! He wouldn't have PTSD from saggy boobs though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I think nursing in front of ds makes dh more uncomfortable than any of us. Sometimes I nurse in another room, but not always. Yes, I have nursed in public, but I don't think it's quite the same as the locker room situation. Maybe if there were a group of men and I sat down right next to them to nurse it would be somewhat comparable as far as comfort level boundaries. I needed the space to set up on the living room sofa. (we have a family room. kids spent more time in there than the living room.) thank goodness I was an experienced nursing mom! I would have given up almost immediately. only, he wouldn't take a bottle either . . . once he settled into nursing, things were fine. My MOTHER had the fit about me throwing a blanket over me while nursing when my brother was there. keep in mind - my mother would walk around her apartment in the nude. (we learned to *always* knock.) she also got "upset" with me when I made her go home and put on clothes (she came in pjs) when I was having other NON-family guests coming to my house. she complained about the rehab center making her get dressed everyday . . . . to put it on topic - my mother probably wouldn't have cared even if the boy was a tween/teen. . . . (but that doesnt' mean the boys wouldn't care! 1ds and his friend made a huge treehouse - and the wrinkled old lady behind us complained they could look in her bedroom at her. - teenage boys are not interested in old ladies - ESPECIALLY wrinkled ones! there were better things to look at. like the mts. or city lights. incidently - the neighbors on the other side celebrated when she moved.) my mother had no sense of propriety with other people. at. all. when I was 15 - I decided I was the adult - and she was the rebellioius teenager. alot of what she did was to yank her mother's chain. . . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJoy Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 UPDATE: We got there first, so I was sitting poolside when mom and boys came in. She walked with them through the women's room to enter. They were both wearing clothes over their suits, so they took off their clothes very quickly without any help or direction from mom and then showered and got in. I didn't swim today and ended up chatting with another mom so I didn't have a chance to offer for my son to be a locker room buddy. BoyMom was absorbed in a book/journal so there wasn't a casual opportunity. But then 15 minutes before the end she was laughing about something her younger son did in the pool so I had an opportunity to ask their ages, which were 6 and (drumroll please)........9! The 9-year-old's lesson ended at 12:05. From then until 1:05 at least one of the two family bathrooms was vacant. At 1:15 the mom checked the family bathrooms for the first time and saw they were full. She sent the boys back to the pool, but one opened up just 2 minutes later. I managed to avoid any awkward conversations but she seems to have learned from last week (though she did still walk them through at the beginning). From 1:00-1:10 there were at least 6 elderly women changing for their water class, so I'm glad she didn't go in the women's room then and cause another scene! 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I'm glad she gave it some thought and did the right thing. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Thanks for the update. :) I like hearing how things progress when there's a big discussion on here. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 It's also you choosing to nurse in that location. You are the one with the boob out. I don't think the person who mentioned harm was talking about harm from looking at old lady bits. It may have been in the other thread, but she was talking about harming kids by over-babying them and not letting them do things on their own. If I dragged my 10yo DS in a ladies' locker room, it would harm our relationship for sure! He wouldn't have PTSD from saggy boobs though. I probably didn't make much sense. I was replying to a post where someone else was quoted and had not read the initial post in context at that point. I was just noticing that nursing came up and was weighing in that the two things weren't quite the same to me. The closest comparison I could come up with was me choosing to nurse around a cluster of men vs. elsewhere (comparing that to choosing to use a room occupied by several opposite sex members of a gym). I actually would worry that I might scare some poor unsuspecting kid if they saw me naked haha You just never know. I just try my best to be considerate of other people's comfort zone. I actually am pretty discreet and tend to nurse in the car though I support a woman's right to nurse where ever. On that note, there's a bill that might pass here (Senate Bill 2070) which is very interesting. Fining people that try to stop a woman from breastfeeding. I'm so glad the OP had a nice update to share :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest freshoceanair Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I think 4yo is to young. That being said 10 is WAY to old. I don't think I'd be comfortable until 6 and wouldn't /comply until 6yo. Sent from my SM-G360T using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamakelly Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 9!? eeek. That's too old IMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I don't think anyone said he was a threat. But since you brought up threats, it seems likely to me that this whole thread happened because of one mom's irrational belief that her boy changing in the men's locker room is a threat. In fact, that is usually the reason given for older boys in ladies' rooms. IMO that's not healthy thinking, either. I know of enough people who have had bad experiences with men's change rooms (including my dh) not to risk it with my kids. I think it's different if it's a school class with a bunch of kids who know each other to when we swim during the day with just us and the change rooms can be quite empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I think there is a culture difference here as in Aus it's pretty much considered borderline negligence not getting swimming lessons to the point the gov subsidise lessons each summer holidays (which limits the venue as it only takes places in certain venues) and family rooms tend to be few and far between and often combined with the disabled toilet. I have definitely been in the awkward situation before or having to choose between what I feel is my kids safety and another woman's comfort zone. I think sexual abuse influences people both ways here because while those who have experienced it may be more reluctant to let others see their bodies those who have those experiences are also going to be more guarded about what risk they are willing to take with their kids. I know the point about it being more likely to be family members but there's not much I can do to control for that whereas the other situations I can. In the same way that I can't control the other drivers on the road but I can at least make sure my kids are seat belted right. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) NM - it's all been said before. Edited February 4, 2016 by SKL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Good update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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