beansprouts Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I worry that all of my kids pictures are digital. When a computer crashed last year, I lost several years worth of precious memories (though I think the files still exist at DH's office). But we have become aware of how vulnerable this information is and have started ordering prints of our favorite images. I am an imaginative person, and I can't help but wonder what the vulnerability of our media could mean on a larger scale. We live in a civilization where more and more of our information is digital and no physical copies exist. Just for laughs, let's say somebody blew the electromagnetic field, or there were a nuclear war, or a global catastrophe of some sort. If centuries later archeologists were digging in the region which was once the United States, finding piles of twisted machinery, but few physical records what could they learn from us? Anybody feel like writing a sci-fi novel? :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I have heard some historians make a plea for "normal" people to keep paper diaries of their lives for the reasons you list. An organization with which I am involved has 95 years of archives. But fifteen years ago, some of those former paper materials were saved on floppy disks. Great, we have the floppies, but most people do not have the means to access the data. The same may be true for our current data now living on computers and USB devices. Despite the fact that I always growl about stuff, there are reasons to have those pieces of paper about! Jane P.S. My husband now saves his photos on Flickr--but they could disappear, couldn't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretchen in NJ Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I have to admit that I still use film and that I keep a paper copy and an electronic copy of all my important papers. I like to have a back-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa at Home Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 And because of that I have encouraged dd to keep a paper diary. We talked about how historical information was lost when the Egyptians "upgraded" from stone to papyrus over lunch one day at a restaurant. As we discussed the diary, an elderly lady eavesdropped and smiled. It bothers me a lot that our pictures are digital. The process of taking the photos is easier...easier to take many and quickly delete the ones I don't want, but we never seem to get around to ordering hard copies. Oh, dh says it's no problem to print the ones I want, but at the same time I get the impression that he feels I want too many, LOL. I guess all technology has it's good points and negative points. As far as actually creating a Dark Age, I do wonder about that. ~Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Um, yes, I believe it could. I hand write lesson plans, but photos, blogs and some of my writings are on the computer. I feel for the people who are still without power right now. Having no news, no internet can make you feel cut off from the world. Even not having a way to charge your cell phone can be stressful. Yes that would make a great novel. Although I'm not sure how sci-fi you'd even have to make it at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieMonster Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 We talked about how historical information was lost when the Egyptians "upgraded" from stone to papyrus over lunch one day at a restaurant. I didn't know the Egyptians up and decided to do that after discussing it over lunch one day?! Wow. Hasty decision. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Anybody feel like writing a sci-fi novel? :tongue_smilie: Isn't A Canticle for Leibowitz along those lines? (It has been a few decades since I have read it!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli in TN Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I didn't know the Egyptians up and decided to do that after discussing it over lunch one day?! Wow. Hasty decision. :lol: I'm pretty sure I read that in SOTW. I think they were at Applebee's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crissy Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Not if we all start using Blurb.:D Make a book of your pictures. Help your children create a school year book. Chronicle a big vacation. Make a fancy scrap book, or just a simple photo book. Add text. Or not. My husband is a photographer so he shoots more frames than the average guy (he shot a high school football game for a friend and made over 3,000 pictures). We have photos on computers, on discs, on external hard drives, on thumb drives and anywhere else you can imagine putting digital photo files. I hated not being able to see them regularly, so I started making books. The quality is beautiful and I am so happy now that I can take a book off the shelf and flip through pictures of our trip to China, our kid's sports teams, or whatever strikes my fancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I am an imaginative person, and I can't help but wonder what the vulnerability of our media could mean on a larger scale. We live in a civilization where more and more of our information is digital and no physical copies exist. Just for laughs, let's say somebody blew the electromagnetic field, or there were a nuclear war, or a global catastrophe of some sort. If centuries later archeologists were digging in the region which was once the United States, finding piles of twisted machinery, but few physical records what could they learn from us? Anybody feel like writing a sci-fi novel? :tongue_smilie: There's a book about archaeologists digging up artifacts from the country of Usa (pronounced Oosa) in the future. I remember reading a blurb about the book, but can't remember the actual title. I'm not sure if The Canticle of Leibowitz is that book or not. I find it interesting that we can read records, archives, diaries, letters, etc from thousands of years ago, but there's every chance that future generations won't be able to read *our* records, et al because of the extent that the latest technology is utilized. Then, of course, the latest technology becomes obsolete and the cycle repeats. So, people have to keep transferring records from one form of technology to the latest version in order to preserve the records; a simplified version would be 8mm tape --> Betamax/VHS --> VHS --> DVDs --> ? (sorry, the running joke at my station is that I'm technologically about a century behind the "real world"). I prefer good "old fashioned" books myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in the Kootenays Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 There's truth to it. Now to print some of those photos languishing on the computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Dominion Heather Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Yes, it is. I love that book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Just for laughs, let's say somebody blew the electromagnetic field :tongue_smilie: Seriously, an electromagnetic pulse could be generated by a high altitude detonation a few hundred miles off the Eastern seaboard on an unmarked container vessel by one of our enemies. Missile and other experts think this would lead to 70% of the nation going back to 1800's technologically. Some think this is why Ahmadinejad is doing testing in the Caspian Sea. Once Iran goes nuclear this could be a reality. Not trying to be a "downer" here;) but I just wanted to point out that this could be a real thing in the future. I'm also not trying to hijack the thread so in response to your OP my dd9 documents everything that goes on in our family so no worries there!!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansprouts Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 Seriously, an electromagnetic pulse could be generated by a high altitude detonation a few hundred miles off the Eastern seaboard on an unmarked container vessel by one of our enemies. I know, and I realise it isn't funny. It is one of those things we are aware of, but try not too think too much about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansprouts Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 Isn't A Canticle for Leibowitz along those lines? (It has been a few decades since I have read it!) It sounds interesting. I haven't read a good novel in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansprouts Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 So, people have to keep transferring records from one form of technology to the latest version in order to preserve the records; a simplified version would be 8mm tape --> Betamax/VHS --> VHS --> DVDs --> ? (sorry, the running joke at my station is that I'm technologically about a century behind the "real world"). I prefer good "old fashioned" books myself. I have thought of this too. How much information has been lost just in recent decades because it was recorded with outmoded technology? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocobean Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I have a lot of pictures stored digitally as well. My wedding pictures for example, the vast majority of them are in digital storage. paper copies are susceptible to fire and water and bugs and mold, so I think with any medium, new or old, the key is to back up, back up, back up. Put copies on different types of storage medium : Solid State Drives have the ability to endure extreme shock, high altitude, vibration and extremes of temperature because it's got no moving parts inside. Your good old computer hard drives are also good candidate for storage for ease and they are so cheap these days. Putting them on CDs and DVDs is a little more fragile, but they are easily retrievable. Thumbs drives are cheap and stores into a very small space as well. Put copies in different places. The point is to not have a "single point of failure". example, if your photo album is on fire and you don't have another copy, you've lost them for good. But if the photos were stored in paper format, and also on your computer or sent as a CD to relatives, you can still get it back in case of catastrophe. Most businesses will store their precious data this way, with "tapes" and stuff stored in several copies locally and also sent physically away to fire, water, mould, magnet, earthquake safe facilities. historically we've lost things primarily not because of any one type of disaster, but because they were all in one place, in one format only. Imagine if there are scrolls of the same book all stored in different places, some in caves, some sent to far away lands, some sealed inside tombs, some just copied and distributed to many libraries. important documents like this generally get preserved. Re: EMPs. I live on the pacific coast where forest fires, mould, floods and earthquakes happen much, much more often. have a look at Faraday cage, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage, which sheilds against electromagnetic stuff. Btw your microwave is one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_shielding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumping In Puddles Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I didn't know the Egyptians up and decided to do that after discussing it over lunch one day?! Wow. Hasty decision. :lol: :lol: I read it the same way! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I've already experienced two self or man made photo disasters. One was a digital camera that fell out of my pocket into a bucket of paint, and one dead computer. I've mourned the loss of those memories/pictures and resorted back to my printed copies of all or at least the good ones. (You know the saying...fool me once....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caraway Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I'm pretty sure I read that in SOTW. I think they were at Applebee's. :smilielol5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Then the archaeologists would decide that commodes were used in religious rituals, like in this book. :lol: http://www.amazon.com/Motel-Mysteries-David-Macaulay/dp/0395284252 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansprouts Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 Then the archaeologists would decide that commodes were used in religious rituals, like in this book. :lol: http://www.amazon.com/Motel-Mysteries-David-Macaulay/dp/0395284252 Too funny!!! And at the same time, it raises a lot of questions about what our archeologists might have wrong :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele B Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I feel very helpless when the power goes out. Even for an hour! It went out the other day and the girls started to freak until my husband lit candles and I told them we could pretend to be Felicity (American Girl Series). I sometimes think - do I have any survival skills? I don't think it would hurt to be a bit more self-reliant. Oh, yes - I would freak if I lost my digital pictures!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansprouts Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 I feel very helpless when the power goes out. Even for an hour! It went out the other day and the girls started to freak until my husband lit candles and I told them we could pretend to be Felicity (American Girl Series). I sometimes think - do I have any survival skills? I don't think it would hurt to be a bit more self-reliant. Oh, yes - I would freak if I lost my digital pictures!:D You would survive because you are a smart, creative and resourceful woman. We would all learn that we don't need all this stuff that we think we need. But for now I am going to enjoy it ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Interesting. You have some deep dark recesses in that brain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansprouts Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 Interesting. You have some deep dark recesses in that brain! So what are you trying to say??? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Too funny!!! And at the same time, it raises a lot of questions about what our archeologists might have wrong :lol: Yep. After reading that book, my girls and I get tickled every time we read in history about how such-and-such was "most likely used in some religious ritual." :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alenee Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I didn't read all the way through the thread so I apologize if this is a repeat. Last month's Popular Mechanics had an artical on electronic/computer warfare. It's a pretty big deal now. They talked about how the nation of Estonia had a major breech a couple of years ago and how much devastation it caused. It is a VERY real threat imo and I am so glad our military is geared up to fight this battle. I mention this because as the op stated, we have so little in hard copy and so dependent on our computers. We would be devastated if there were a serious breech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I agree with the danger of losing much digital information, even without something as catastrophic as an EMP event. Even if information on discs, tapes, hard-drives and other "volatile" storage mediums remain intact (by no means guaranteed) there is a remaining problem that the machines used to "read" the files, and the file formats themselves, tend to become outdated, rare, or even (practically speaking) extinct. How many of us can still read an old 5.25 floppy disc? Or play a Hi-8 videotape? Connectors and interface standards change, standards change, drivers and OSs change, and all this leads to incompatible or practically unreadable files. But don't believe modern day paper is a permanent storage medium either. Once upon a time paper was permanent, but today (unless you are using "acid-free" archival paper, it will in time disintegrate. Almost all modern books are NOT printed on acid-free paper. So they will yellow and crumble in time. There are a few publishers, such as the "Library of America" that uses acid-free paper, but they are few and far between. The vast majority of todays books will be unreadable in 100 years or so. Sad but true. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I would gladly pay for someone to back up and print all of my photos because I am technologically challenged and don't know how to do this. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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