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!!!I never knew!!! !!!I never, Never, *N*e*v*e*r*, knew!!!! I'm in denial!

MomOfOneFunOne
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MomOfOneFunOne

MomOfOneFunOne

Posted
Posted

I **Always** thought it was 7s and 8s as in, "When you've memorized the 7s, we'll move on to the 8s." I thought they were CDs and DVDs.

 

ALACK!

 

According to Shurley English, Grade 4, Chapter 10, Lesson 2, Reference 33B, Section 7, Number 21:

 

Form the plurals of letters, symbols, numbers, and signs with the apostrophe plus s ('s). (9's, B's, b's)

 

****!!!!!! It just can't be true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Alack, Alack, Alack-A-Day!

 

my life will never be the same.

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Lolly

Lolly

Posted
Posted
I **Always** thought it was 7s and 8s as in, "When you've memorized the 7s, we'll move on to the 8s." I thought they were CDs and DVDs.

 

ALACK!

 

According to Shurley English, Grade 4, Chapter 10, Lesson 2, Reference 33B, Section 7, Number 21:

 

Form the plurals of letters, symbols, numbers, and signs with the apostrophe plus s ('s). (9's, B's, b's)

 

****!!!!!! It just can't be true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Alack, Alack, Alack-A-Day!

 

my life will never be the same.

 

 

It doesn't seem right, does it? Oh well. Now, we must use the apostrophe for something other than a possessive.:D

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~Kirsten~

~Kirsten~

Posted
Posted
Actually, I don't think I will. I'm at a loss, really, b/c I don't think it's correct. It will take some pondering.

Yep, you've now planned my evening for me. I'll be pulling out all my old style guides, my Woe Is I, and lots of internet searching in an attempt to disprove this awful notion! Good thing my DH is traveling. :D

 

Really, this is upsetting!

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beansprouts

beansprouts

Posted
Posted
I **Always** thought it was 7s and 8s as in, "When you've memorized the 7s, we'll move on to the 8s." I thought they were CDs and DVDs.

 

ALACK!

 

According to Shurley English, Grade 4, Chapter 10, Lesson 2, Reference 33B, Section 7, Number 21:

 

Form the plurals of letters, symbols, numbers, and signs with the apostrophe plus s ('s). (9's, B's, b's)

 

****!!!!!! It just can't be true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Alack, Alack, Alack-A-Day!

 

my life will never be the same.

 

I'm afraid Mrs. Mungo will have to change her signature line. :lol:

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Alyce

Alyce

Posted
Posted

and that's the way I always have done it. I didn't know anyone did it differently on purpose. I've seen it done your way before but just thought it was being done as a shortcut because we're on the internet and a lot of things are done in a shortcut manner on the internet. Now I'm learning something but it won't change the way I've been taught so I'll be doing it like Shurley says.

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Kris

Kris

Posted
Posted
Yep, you've now planned my evening for me. I'll be pulling out all my old style guides, my Woe Is I, and lots of internet searching in an attempt to disprove this awful notion! Good thing my DH is traveling. :D

 

Really, this is upsetting!

 

This just came up in the last six months on another forum or newsgroup I frequent and it was disproved -- with valid sources. Darned if I can remember where now, though. I hope you can find it because . . . well, it's just not right!

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3lilreds in NC

3lilreds in NC

Posted
Posted
I'm afraid Mrs. Mungo will have to change her signature line. :lol:

 

Not necessarily. Just because it's technically correct doesn't mean that the fragile lives of kittens can withstand the inherent *wrongness* of it. Perhaps they simply cannot exist in a universe where such a thing can take place. :lol:

 

I kinda get the 9's, B's thing - but CD's and DVD's? Ack! No way!

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Ellie

Ellie

Posted
Posted
Actually, I don't think I will. I'm at a loss, really, b/c I don't think it's correct. It will take some pondering.

 

I wish I could track down my source for this, but current usage is to use the apostrophe only when not using it would cause confusion, as in the difference between As and Bs (the college degree you earn) and A's and B's (the grades you earn). Even one would think that the lack of capitalization would be a clue that As and Bs mean a grade and AS and BS are college degrees, one should never assume anything.

 

At any rate, CDs and DVDs, 8s and 9s would be correct in current usage.

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TeacherZee

TeacherZee

Posted
Posted
Not necessarily. Just because it's technically correct doesn't mean that the fragile lives of kittens can withstand the inherent *wrongness* of it. Perhaps they simply cannot exist in a universe where such a thing can take place. :lol:

 

I kinda get the 9's, B's thing - but CD's and DVD's? Ack! No way!

 

CDs and DVDs do not have apostrophes. When you abbreviate words you do not use them. Says my university linguistics professor (less than a week ago so I think that is current)

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Melinda in VT

Melinda in VT

Posted
Posted
I **Always** thought it was 7s and 8s as in, "When you've memorized the 7s, we'll move on to the 8s." I thought they were CDs and DVDs.

 

ALACK!

 

According to Shurley English, Grade 4, Chapter 10, Lesson 2, Reference 33B, Section 7, Number 21:

 

Form the plurals of letters, symbols, numbers, and signs with the apostrophe plus s ('s). (9's, B's, b's)

 

****!!!!!! It just can't be true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Alack, Alack, Alack-A-Day!

 

my life will never be the same.

 

You're right. Toss Shurley. :D

 

Chicago Manual of Style (14th edition) 8.64

"The plurals of numerals are formed by adding s alone:

Among the scores were two 240s and three 238s.

The bonds offered were convertible 4 1/2s.

Jazz forms developed in the 1920s became popular in the 1930s."

 

And section 6.16

"So far as it can be done without confusion, single or multiple letters, hyphenated coinages, and numbers used as nouns (whether spelled out or in numerals) form the plural by adding s alone (see also 6.82):

xs and ys

the three Rs

thank-you-ma'ams

in twos and threes

all SOSs

several YMCAs and AYHs

CODs and IOUs

the early 1920s"

 

It's possible this has changed in the newest edition of Chicago, but until I hear otherwise, I am following the style Bible.

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Melinda in VT

Melinda in VT

Posted
Posted
Hia! You beat me by two minutes. But I do have the 15th edition of Chicago here, so you're still right. :)

 

Oh, good.

 

(Sidenote: When the 14th edition came out, my job at the time involved reading the 14th and flagging all changes from the 13th so I could train the student editors on the latest rules. My life is very different now.)

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MomOfOneFunOne

MomOfOneFunOne

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I didn't know that either. Now I do. Oh, happy day! (For real, not being sarcastic -- I hate to make punctuation errors.)

 

I also didn't know that this is incorrect: "Steve's and Jim's bedroom has two beds in it."

 

According to our A Beka grammar book, this is correct: "Steve and Jim's bedroom...."

 

RC

We learned that one today, too. Steve and Jim's if they share ownership of the thing. THey both own the bedroom. But if they are separately owned they both get the 's. Steve's and Jim's contracts will expire in December.

 

Also new to me.

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MomOfOneFunOne

MomOfOneFunOne

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Oops, I used to write them correctly and thought I was doing it wrong and have made a conscious effort to write them without the apostrophes. OK, I'll go back to the "correct" way.:glare:

 

Well, I don't plan to change. I'm not pathologically opposed to change but I think I may be pathologically opposed to using an apostrophe to pluralize!

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RoughCollie

RoughCollie

Posted
Posted
We learned that one today, too. Steve and Jim's if they share ownership of the thing. THey both own the bedroom. But if they are separately owned they both get the 's. Steve's and Jim's contracts will expire in December.

 

Also new to me.

 

Wow! That was a good explanation. I didn't know the separate ownership rule. I should read further in the book! I just happened to glance at it and notice this rule.

 

What is the rule on this? I have 2 spoonsful of sugar or I have 2 spoonfuls of sugar? I bolded that tricky placement of the s's. Also, note the proper apostrophe placement in the previous sentence. :D

 

In school back in the dark ages, I learned spoonsful is proper, but all I see any more is spoonfuls. Dictionary.com states with the latter is correct. So what happened to the former? Was it once correct, but the rules changed on me? Was it always wrong and my teacher, who hammered this rule into us was in error? If it is a full spoon, why isn't it spelled spoonfull?

 

RC

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Cornerstone Classical

Cornerstone Classical

Posted
Posted

SORRY, this thread made me think of that joke...

 

"why was 6 afraid of 7? Because 7,8 (ate), 9 :lol::lol:

 

I guess you could use apostrophes to show possession of something if you were giving a persona to numbers right?

 

Sorry, I have a goofey sense of humor!!:D.....sometimes!

 

I wonder what 7's mother had to say about his cannibalism?

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Mrs Mungo

Mrs Mungo

Posted
Posted
I just looked up in the Chicago Manual of Style (9.58):

 

 

 

But I'm sure there are other style guides that give another rule. Sigh.

 

Yes, it depends upon the style guide. Most of the time apostrophes are *not* used in modern writing. I'm posting grammar girl's site because she has her own references at the bottom of the page.

 

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/writing-dates.aspx

 

Apostrophes and Dates

If you want to abbreviate the year, you can use an apostrophe to replace the initial two and zero, for example, writing, “What are your plans for [apostrophe] '08?†If you want to refer to a whole decade, for example if you want to reminisce about the '80s, you write '80s with an apostrophe replacing the 19 and an s at the end. I loved the '80s. And you don't need an apostrophe before that final s (10, 12, 13).

 

Also:

http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/

 

3. Apostrophes are NEVER ever used to denote plurals! Common examples of such abuse (all seen in real life!) are:apostrophe01s.gifBanana's for sale which of course should read Bananas for saleapostrophe01s.gifMenu's printed to order which should read Menus printed to orderapostrophe01s.gifMOT's at this garage which should read MOTs at this garageapostrophe01s.gif1000's of bargains here! which should read 1000s of bargains here!
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  • 2 months later...
Tree House Academy

Tree House Academy

Posted
Posted

Ahh...all of my years of English study have prepared me for this moment. You are correct...1's, 2's. But the others are correct...it is not DVD's or CD's because those are acronyms and they do not follow the same rule. You would not say "Digital Video Disk's" unless it was possessive...so you also don't say DVD's unless it is possessive. :)

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Aubrey

Aubrey

Posted
Posted

I used the apostrophe after numbers until I was working on my master's degree in ed. I was student teaching high school English under an English teacher who treated grammar like a religion & who was old. Like rocks are old.

 

She was very annoyed by people who used apostrophes after numbers, as if they'd never opened a grammar book. As if they'd been raised in barns.

 

She did not see me use an apostrophe after a number, & thanks to her, I don't think I ever will.

 

One does not call people like Mrs. B. wrong. One might say the rules have changed, but one must not *ever* call Mrs. B. wrong, or the foundations of the earth might crumble.

 

I'm sure you all have had teachers like her who've taught you other, possibly even more valuable, things. So I'm sure you'll understand if I now stick my fingers in my ears & begin to sing, loudly & off-key. :lol:

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KidsHappen

KidsHappen

Posted
Posted
Yes, it depends upon the style guide. Most of the time apostrophes are *not* used in modern writing. I'm posting grammar girl's site because she has her own references at the bottom of the page.

 

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/writing-dates.aspx

 

 

 

Also:

http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/

 

It is so good to see you again! I misssed you while you were gone. :)

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KidsHappen

KidsHappen

Posted
Posted

This is one of those situations where there does not seem to be a clear concesus so I do it the way I like and quote the sorce that supports my choice. I use the Chicago Manual of Style. It is what I learned in college and one of the few things that I do remember so that is the way I do it. And to tell the truth, I don't really care if other people think that I am an idiot or not. :)

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LaxMom

LaxMom

Posted
Posted
Well, I don't plan to change. I'm not pathologically opposed to change but I think I may be pathologically opposed to using an apostrophe to pluralize!

I'm sure I share the same pathological opposition.

 

I used the apostrophe after numbers until I was working on my master's degree in ed. I was student teaching high school English under an English teacher who treated grammar like a religion & who was old. Like rocks are old.

 

She was very annoyed by people who used apostrophes after numbers, as if they'd never opened a grammar book. As if they'd been raised in barns.

 

She did not see me use an apostrophe after a number, & thanks to her, I don't think I ever will.

 

One does not call people like Mrs. B. wrong. One might say the rules have changed, but one must not *ever* call Mrs. B. wrong, or the foundations of the earth might crumble.

 

I'm sure you all have had teachers like her who've taught you other, possibly even more valuable, things. So I'm sure you'll understand if I now stick my fingers in my ears & begin to sing, loudly & off-key. :lol:

 

:rofl: Thank you, Aubrey. I just laughed so hard I snorted and startled my husband. Prior to your post, I was having what can only be described as a crushing pain in my chest at the thought of all those rogue apostrophes being sanctioned "out there". Next thing you know, Merriam will accept "definately" as an alternate spelling.

 

Also, for anyone finding themselves unable to singularize when referring to herds of degreed people in print, please, I beg you, write it out. Because, truly, if I come across "M.'s Div.", apoplexy may actually come back into fashion.

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RoughCollie

RoughCollie

Posted
Posted
Next thing you know, Merriam will accept "definately" as an alternate spelling.

 

This is true: I saw a dictionary once in which the alternate spelling of February was Febuary. That shocked me so much it knocked the name of the dictionary right out of my head. IIRC, that book also had an alternate spelling for library.

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KidsHappen

KidsHappen

Posted
Posted
This is true: I saw a dictionary once in which the alternate spelling of February was Febuary. That shocked me so much it knocked the name of the dictionary right out of my head. IIRC, that book also had an alternate spelling for library.

 

I hate alternate spellings. It makes it very hard to remember the standard spelling. I can never remember if Americans spell it grey or gray. Also our family just had a discussion regarding the correct pluralization of octopus. The standard is octopuses because the word is of Greek not Latin origin, however octopi is now an acceptable variation. And I believe that in college I was taught that the pluralization of p*nis is peni because it is a Latin word but the only pluralization that I can find now is p*nises. So I have no idea if I am remebering it incorrectly or if it changed. :glare:

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Ellie

Ellie

Posted
Posted
Actually, I don't think I will. I'm at a loss, really, b/c I don't think it's correct. It will take some pondering.

 

Well, think of it this way: Without the apostrophe, your dc would earn As and Bs on their tests. We use the apostrophe for clarity's sake: A's and B's.

 

I have read somewhere--I know I have--that the apostrophe is optional in some cases, such as 7s and 8s, but I would rather use it all the time and be clear than have to make that determination on a case-by-case basis and really mess up, KWIM?

 

Off to find another reference :-)

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  • 1 year later...
nono

nono

Posted
Posted

I was raised on the Turabian style, and I write 7s and 8s. Now, that doesn't mean I didn't make up my own rules along the way!

 

One thing was always drilled into our heads in school, and that was whatever style was chosen, stick with it. Consistency was the key. A chosen style was not to be used to judge others with different styles, but to present your ideas clearly and consistently.

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holdoll

holdoll

Posted
Posted
and that's the way I always have done it. I didn't know anyone did it differently on purpose. I've seen it done your way before but just thought it was being done as a shortcut because we're on the internet and a lot of things are done in a shortcut manner on the internet. Now I'm learning something but it won't change the way I've been taught so I'll be doing it like Shurley says.

 

 

:iagree: Are we dating ourselves? :lol:

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Mrs Mungo

Mrs Mungo

Posted
Posted (edited)

This is one of those things that is changing. It's a style issue. The style-books are starting to change more and more toward leaving out apostrophes in plural numbers, dates and abbreviations. Unfortunately, the scholars of the English language are not completely in agreement. My signature line expresses my own opinion on the matter. There are exceptions, like "minding your p's and q's," exceptions (like the times I use a serial comma) are there to help when the normal way of doing it adds confusion. ;)

 

eta: More info:

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/apostrophe-1.aspx

 

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/writing-dates.aspx

 

http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/CMS_FAQ/Punctuation/Punctuation19.html

 

http://www.mlanet.org/publications/style/style_punctuation.html

 

Chicago, AP and MLA association stylebooks leave the apostrophe out where numbers and dates are concerned. I think the NYT stylebook is one of the last holdouts.

 

This is one of the main reasons we did not continue with Shurley English. Is that petty? :P

Edited by Mrs Mungo
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