What do you with a kid who is completely unmotivated?

[woolybear]

Ds is 15. He was homeschooled up until he was in 7th grade. He really wanted to go to public school, where he had friends he had made through sports. We sent him, but I dh and I really felt it did not go well (some Fs, anger issues, getting in trouble in school). He loved it. Sigh. The next year we homeschooled, but he took all his classes at an outside hs program. Sort of a compromise. Not a perfect solution, but I don't see other options that will work. Our intention is to continue this year and possibly to the end of high school. He is not happy with this. He really wants to go to our local public high school. I see a lot of reasons why this is not a good idea. However, I do listen to what he has to say. At this age, I would like him to be happy with his schooling choice. The real problem is when we discuss this, his attitude in general toward school is very negative. He is not at all interested in academics. Ok. I get this. He doesn't have plans for the future. Totally get this too. My point to him is that perhaps some day, he will want to do something work wise that he doesn't foresee now. So, he should get a decent education. College may be in his future, maybe not. Leave doors open as much as possible. He says, as long as I pass and get a high school diploma, that's enough. There are some colleges that will take you no matter what your grades are. So, basically for college, same attitude. Just get the degree, party, and go to the beach. Huh??? Really? I push him to do his work and get decent grades. He is smart and capable of this. This worked last year because he had an external motivator--do those things and you get to do your sport. It is much easier to keep an eye on this at a smaller location. The high school here has over 3000 kids. Even when he was at the middle school (1300 kids) it was difficult to know what was going on.

 

So, I guess my point is, I know he's just 15, but shouldn't he sort of get it--getting decent grades matters. No, I don't expect all As. But mostly Bs and a good effort. If he got Cs but was really trying that would be ok. But no effort because grades don't matter, just pass and get a diploma??

 

Any thoughts?

[woolybear]

Wow. I just reread that and it came out jumbled and like a stream of consciousness. I hope someone can understand it. If you are bothering to read still, let me know if I can clarify anything.

[MarkT]

You need a "life discussion" with him.  Unfortunately 15 is the utmost time of unreality for boys.  Do you have a male family friend or relative (closer to his age - maybe early twenties) that can give him some "reality"?

[MysteryJen]

Well, I don't know that I can be much help, because so far, I have only had unmotivated 15 yo boys. For one, we required a job. That worked pretty well. He chose to be homeschooled and I chose to do my best and pray like crazy. He still is not motivated by grades, which makes me a little nuts, but he is in college now and realistically, what can I do?

The other is doing better just through the sloooow maturation process. I still don't know how motivated he is, but he is paying attention to the college stories and is motivated to go. I hope that is enough.

 

My sympathies are with you, especially if you have friends with 15 yo girls. I had to stop seeing some people, because their daughters, lovely girls, were like a different species. Motivated, hard workers with a plan whereas my son was floating around, playing video games. It made me a little crazy which was not good for a mother/son relationship.

[OneStepAtATime]

Is there an apprenticeship he could tackle in an area of interest?

[elegantlion]

my son was only motivated by what motivated him. Grades were irrelevant. Even in homeschooling, he made some Bs because that's the amount of effort/work he wanted to put into that subject. 

 

About 15, he started to really solidify interests and what he might want his life to look like as an adult. Those goals drove him. Even now he wants to get a degree and go out into the world. He's not academic by nature. 

 

It sounds like he's unsure of his future and that's okay. I would take him for a drive and lay out your concerns and then listen. Driving makes it easier to have those type of talks. Is he studying anything that excites him? Or is he taking the classes assigned and hating them? Would he try public school on a probationary period, knowing that if his grades were at a certain level, you'd have to pull him out again? Does he feel like he's more mature this year, enough to stay out of trouble? 

I don't know. I would brainstorm some ideas and then try to reach a compromise. At 15, I think he's needs something in his education that matters to him. He doesn't have to have it all figured out, but like you said, you want to keep doors open. 

[73349]

Now might be a good time for a course in personal finance. He should get to know what kinds of jobs he can get with his just-barely-graduated education and how they pay, and how much things cost, and at what date you plan to decline to assist him any further financially.

 

Does he like nice cars? Travel? Taking a date to dinner and a movie? It may be that when he finds that he will only have, say, $25 a month to spare if nothing needs replacing, will drive a jalopy and won't be able to afford to leave town from ages 18 to 40, he will be motivated to aim a little higher.

[J-rap]

Can he be involved on school sports teams even if he is homeschooled?  (So sports could still be an incentive, and enable him to do something that he enjoys?)

 

 

[go_go_gadget]

This kind of thing is why we should have a hybrid American/European system, in which unmotivated students could leave school for jobs or vocational training (as in Europe), while still leaving the door open to easily go back for college later (as in America). I truly think education is wasted on the young sometimes (including myself at that age).

[woolybear]

I am going to try to respond to all.... We have talked. He, of course, thinks he knows how things work. He still has his sport--bmx outside of being in school. One problem, in school or homeschooled, is getting injured. He has had several this year which have kept him out for a while. So then, the extrinsic motivation doesn't help. There is the real possibility that he could have to stop bmx altogether at some point. So, he really needs to have other reasons to try to do decently in school.

 

I have tried to keep him around others that are doing the sport and keeping up with school/doing well. He has one coach he really looks up to and he raced at a high level for awhile. He just graduated from college and is now in grad school, has his own gym, and coaches outside of that as well. He is a good role model, but not really able to talk to him about all this. Maybe it is too big a responsibility to lay on him? He is only 21.

 

When he went to the middle school, he was not motivated to go to college. Last year he started thinking about it and I thought that was a step in the right direction. However, come to find out, he is only looking for a party school.

 

I'm very hesitant to try the high school on a probationary status. As I said, it was several months before I even learned that he wasn't doing math homework at all. I think if I am not informed by the school at the middle school level, I doubt it would be better at the high school level. When I realized problems were starting, I sent regular emails and talked to teachers, asking each week, if he was behaving in class, doing his homework, struggling with anything. Mostly told he was doing fine. Pulling him out was incredibly difficult. Long story which I won't go into now, but I don't want to be in that position again, unless I am more convinced it will be a good thing. Funny thing is, he could tell me a lot of things that would make me less concerned. But he doesn't. He just says he wants to go to the parties. He wants to be around a lot of people. He doesn't care about the classes and will just do the minimum to pass.

[woolybear]

Sorry. I do not understand why my posts keep coming up as one big paragraph. I didn't type it that way.

[J-rap]

Well at least he's honest with you!  Got to give him that!  I think I'd do everything I could to find an interest that he loved.  Music?  Art?  Theater?  Computers?   Another sport (swimming?)?  Working on old cars?  Cooking?  Of course I'd probably have to bribe him just to try it out, but whatever it takes.  :)   My hope would be that eventually he would latch on to something, and that's what I'd use to keep him interested in school.  I'd tie it into school as much as possible, and even consider a very specific path (like a technical school or even an apprenticeship type arrangement instead of a liberal arts college) to a career in that area.  Being on a specific path moving forward at least gets you motivated to work toward a goal.  But, it also exposes you to other opportunities/ideas that you hadn't thought of before.  Moving forward is the key.

 

ETA:  I wanted to stress that I think exposing him to different "possible" interests is key here.  It will probably mean pushing -- almost forcing -- him to try them out.  It's a fine line, because you want to be respectful of his feelings, too.  But this age-group is one of your last chances to really assert your parental influence.  I can't tell you the number of times I practically forced my children to be involved in something -- through community ed, a volunteer group event, or whatever.  And then it turned out to be a huge enjoyment and part of their lives. 

 

One last thought...  is there any chance he is suffering from any depression?

 

[woolybear]

Depression... maybe. In the last 6 months he has sat out of his sport which he loves 3-4 months for 3 different injuries. Lack of exercise and missing something he loves.

 

I'm glad to hear what you're saying about almost forcing him to try other things. We talked about this a couple of months ago, but nothing came of it on his end. I see I really need to push. I would love to hear any suggestions on things to try.

[J-rap]

I'm sorry, but I keep thinking of new things to add.  My son wasn't going through quite the same things as your son.  But, he had a lot of energy to put into something and he really, really seemed to need to do that.  He needed big goals.  He loved swimming.  (He was allowed to join the ps swim team and that was a wonderful experience.)   He also loved biking.  Beginning when he was about 15, he began planning a bike ride across Europe.  We let him go on the computer to research this every day, once his school work was done.  It became almost an obsession, but it sure pushed him into completing his school work!

 

He began working part-time in order to save up for his "bike ride across Europe."  It was a huge motivator for him.  One month after his high school graduation, he actually did this.  We no longer felt we could say no, and he did have it planned out, to the "T", and it was all with his own money.  He spent the year biking from Oslo, Norway, to Istanbul.  He even met his wife along the way!

 

So, this is to say that finding an interest, and setting an out-of-the-box goal is not something to rule out.  It can be key to getting him on a really great path.

[woolybear]

Don't be sorry. Please add away. I love hearing all these thoughts, ideas, and experiences. He and I were just starting to talk about some bigger bmx racing goals--getting NAG (National Age Group) standing next year, qualifying for the Olympic Training Center devo program, and more. Then he got injured again. That makes it harder.

 

Love the idea of the trip your son did!

[woolybear]

I should clarify. He does have a passion--bmx racing and is very motivated in his sport. It is academics I am referring to.

[woolybear]

Well, we talked briefly again tonight about this. He REALLY does not want to homeschool, but seems (somewhat) resigned to it. I so wish he didn't feel this way. The real issue with this is that I don't think it will go well at the ps. He is clear that he would not be there for the classes. I guess he might try to get decent grades in order to be able to do his sport. When he was at school 2 years ago, it was impossible to work with him. He adopted the sort of f*** you attitude toward adults that many of the kids at school had.

 

I suppose this is not what I directly started this thread about, but it is an offshoot of itl

[Michelle_NC]

Hmmmm ... if he's not going to school for an education, what is the draw there? I only ask because at my daughter's traditional school there were a lot of destructive things going on during the day on school grounds (and this was a highly rated high school). She wouldn't go to the bathroom because there were fist-fights, drug transactions, and kids having sex. It was really stressing her out.

 

Where do you think your son's anger coming from?

 

If I were in this situation, I'd help him figure out where else in BMX he can envision himself and find a tech program through the community college.  Design? Managing? Operations? Maintenance? Marketing?  

 

Good luck! This is a tough age, but they seem to start getting a plan together by the time 11th grade rolls around.

[PeterPan]

Fwiw, boys don't have the corner on unmotivated, even if they do it more than girls.  ;)  My dd doesn't care about grades, pleasing parents, etc., but she *does* care about competition.  With as much as he seems to enjoy his competition for BMX, it's a shame that atmosphere of competition couldn't carry over to his school work.  Is there a small, private school around, a place where he could have some competition?  Or small online live classes with say 10-12 kids?

 

I don't think his craving of social is so unusual.  Is it possible you're an introvert, making it even more unfathomable to you?  

 

I agree that 3K is huge and that, because of his previous poor grades, he's getting tracked in a situation that doesn't inspire competition or working your hardest AT ALL.  He's not going to go into that and get inspired.  He needs a smaller setting and someone who takes him aside.  No, the 21 yo isn't quite there.  He's still too young and may have things going on you don't know about.  He needs someone a bit older.  Is there a vocational school?  Some kind of professional school?  Something with something related to this BMX stuff?  Since he loves it so much but is really prone to injuries, what can he pursue that is *related* but his sort of back-up plan?  The mechanics of it and working on the machines?  PT for the sports injuries from it?  

 

That's what I'd be asking, where you can branch the BMX stuff out to, so he can explore more areas that relate to it.  Vocational school might be awesome for him.  Or get him a JOB right now with somebody in that field.  He needs somebody older who can mentor him and make an impression.  Not 21, more like 40 or 50 or 60.  

 

If he could do 2-3 hours of school work in the morning in a very focused way and then go work the whole afternoon for the mentor, that would be ideal.  Or switch over to vocational school.  Or point out to him that as he has no money and no job he won't be ABLE to go to the party college and therefore WILL be working and that he should just get it through his head and start now.  And personally, I'd make the BMX stuff contingent on school work being done.  

 

And then something I know nothing about: could he have some injuries remaining from the BMX stuff, like a concussion or personality change or effect of pain meds or something?

[HomeAgain]

Could something be underlying the laissez-faire attitude?  When mine gets like that he's having a crisis of confidence.  Nothing interests him, nothing he tries is as good as he wants it to be, confused and scared about life choices..it's easier to save face by pretending it doesn't matter than to care and fail.

 

 

[Scarlett]

No way I would send him back to public school. He is exactly the kind of kid tat gets in BIG trouble in that environment.

 

His need/desire for partying is just the phrasing he has learned from pop culture and his peers. He really is craving social interaction....my 15 yo is the same way. As we are pulling in the driveway from one event he is planning the next. It exhausts me but I think it is normal. I try to keep him busy and I require good grades....he just got a car that he can't even drive yet and he is going to have to pay the $150 a month insurance bill. So very soon he will need to find a way to bring in some money. That will help too. Boys need lots of physical exertion. Work or hard play.

 

Don't worry too much about the academics. He will have to figure it all out and some kids have to learn the hard way. I would concentrate on exposing him to good role models, good kids and lots of new info and experiences.

[DebbS]

Who knows what goes on in the mind of a 15yo boy!  I sure don't.  But I did have a 15yo unmotivated boy once. He's now a 20yo college student carrying a 3.9 GPA! Things do change. 

 

I began homeschooling my son at age 14. He had gone to a Montessori school up to that point but that school only went through 8th grade. I didn't want to send him to either a public or private school after that because an issue in Montessori was that he didn't do a lot of the stuff he was supposed to do but did other things instead. He is intelligent, thus his teachers were not particularly concerned as long as he was learning something. Usually this was research into subjects that he found interesting. He is very quietly stubborn, so it didn't cause issues in the classroom.

 

We struggled with homeschooling until we found an academy with extremely qualified teachers (college profs) who expected a great deal from their students. The courses were the same that they had taught at the 200/300 college level. My son had a great respect for these teachers given he considered them more knowledgeable than himself (he was a bit arrogant), and he got to work! Even though he didn't take all of his courses at the academy, the change in attitude seemed to flow over to the courses that he took at home.

 

So, for him, it was offering him something interesting and challenging that made all of the difference. And probably growing out of the hormone induced confusion that is adolescence helped too!

 

If your son completely messes up high school, there are other ways to success and even college once he decides to get serious about it. I've know many successful people whose stories start with I flunked out and/or dropped out of high school. So, even while you have to keep at him because you are a parent after all, don't worry too much about his future. Today is hard enough!

 

The whole high school/college system makes us believe that much of our future is dependent on what we do in our teen years. That's really crazy when you think about it.

[fairfarmhand]

My friend with an unmotivated teen girl had her get a crappy minimum wage job. Took a couple of years, but she finally was fed up with the poor management, annoying co coworkers and terrible hours.

 

This mom would not fund things like cars or "fun" money. She provided basics, but kids had to earn extra money for fun.

 

Suddenly, teen was much more motivated. She's now working to be an RN.

[Wildcat]

I am far more worried about your son's attitude/anger than I am about his grades. Why the anger? The disrespect towards adults? What's up with the partying? I have known many people in my life who did the bare minimum and took a few years to just live before deciding on some sort of education/career training after high school, so all is not lost there. I would definitely pull back on the education/grades talk and figure out WHY he feels the way he does. Most teen boys sort of lose their brains at some point, yet don't exhibit the things you speak of.

 

With the BMX, knowing injury is a real possibility, is there a way he could help/train/mentor younger kids just getting into BMX? Sometimes, still being around and helping others is a way to get through not being able to participate. Also, teaching/coaching is a great self-esteem booster. I was also going to mention weight training, mechanics, etc. Maybe he can look for a program to become a mechanic or apprentice under someone and start a small business fixing bikes or even do some custom paint jobs, decorate helmets, or something. 

 

I wish you luck. I think you are dealing with more than a 15 year old who just doesn't want to do school. I would do everything I could to keep him out of the ps and away from whatever influences he was drawn to there and find *something* he likes to do to help fill his extra time and encourage him to spend more time doing it. The 'bare minimum' for academics will have to suffice. The stronger academics will come once he has confidence, a vision for his future (even if it changes), and feels better about himself.

[woolybear]

The anger and disrespect were apparent when he was in the Ps two years ago. We do not have those issues now.

 

Thinking about all the words of wisdom everyone has offered.......

[brookspr]

My friend with an unmotivated teen girl had her get a crappy minimum wage job. Took a couple of years, but she finally was fed up with the poor management, annoying co coworkers and terrible hours.

 

This mom would not fund things like cars or "fun" money. She provided basics, but kids had to earn extra money for fun.

 

Suddenly, teen was much more motivated. She's now working to be an RN.

 

I was thinking something similar to this. Ask him how he is going to make enough money to have a car, place to live, and food to eat once he is on his own. Take a look at some job descriptions of things he may be interested in and show him what the requirements are. Not many will say HS diploma or CC degree or GPA of 2.5. Then take a look at some minimum wage jobs, explain how much the government takes out for taxes, and show him what he would bring home each week. My guess is that none of the jobs he may be qualified for will make him enough money to get the things he will want once he is on his own.

 

This may not motivate him, but at least you will have laid it all out on the line and he can't come back and say you never told him it would be this way.

 

As for letting him go to HS, I told my son, who will be 13 soon, that he has to show me he is ready to succeed in the public school environment by being organized, doing work on time, and completing neat, legible assignments. If he can't do that, he will stay home. I'm not putting him in the public school system so he can fail miserably or even just get by. That doesn't do either of us any good.

 

 

[MBM]

I agree with others that your son's honesty about how he feels and what he likes/dislikes is a really good sign. It's much better to know how your child truly feels even if it's not what you want to hear because you can work with what you know is true.

 

From what you've posted, woolybear, it sounds like your son is effectively saying, "No one is the boss of me. I'll do what I want." He's seeking to be more autonomous which is not a bad thing or unusual as a young teen (autonomy peaks around age 13). He might also feel unfairly controlled in some situations. But as you know, he's short-sighted about his future. That's where you could step in and ask him questions that help him flesh out his thinking and come up with a plan, maybe even see some of the errors he might be making. Empathy goes a long way when you have these conversations. It's a give-and-take process. My husband and I still do this to some extent even with our 30+ year old kids. Your son will make mistakes; you just don't want them to be big.

 

If you're going to keep him out of school, maybe there's a way to allow him to still maintain his friendships.

 

I also agree with others that one idea is to figure out ways to stay involved with BMX racing -- maybe promoting and organizing races, designing bikes, etc. What does he need to do to make that happen? What would a future employer want to see?

 

A few books that might help:

 

Dan Siegel's Brainstorm: The Power and Purpose of the Teenage Brain

 

Kelly McGonigal's book The Willpower Instinct

 

Carol Dweck's book Mindset, specifically pgs 227-228 where she talks about Peter Gollwitzer's research on setting goals

 

I think all three authors have given TED talks that you might be able to find online. I don't think Gollwitzer has, but you might be able to find more of his work online, too.

[LisaKinVA]

Well...sounds like you have a stubborn one.  You've gotten a lot of great advice.  

 

My son (also 15) fluctuates between TRULY getting it, and wanting to just live in a dream world (where being a Master Lego Builder is not only an easy job to get, it pays well, too).  To be clear, I haven't squelched my son's dream, but I have provided him with articles which outline both what it takes and what it really pays. We do the budgeting/taxes/financial situations quite regularly. He recently told me his back-up plan...work for MegaBlox  :glare: .  Every once in awhile his attention is grabbed by something going on in robotics/technology, and he does enjoy communications/marketing, so he is looking into those fields. And, this is the same child who talks about going to MIT, Stanford, or maybe USNA.  There is a bit of a disconnect between reality and his dream job, and his ideal college choices.   Then, I try to breathe and relax a bit.  There is still time to mature.  After all, I was going to be a music education major from the time I was in 6th grade until the spring semester of my junior year!

 

We do have a certain set of expectations, but because of his age, I am doing my best to listen and incorporate things he wants as well.  We have also said it's okay to not have a firm plan, but that he needs to leave as many doors open as he can.  We have explained that doing nothing, and living at home is not an option.  He does not have to go to college, but if he chooses to stay home he needs a full-time job.  If he can't get a full-time job, he can always enlist.  But living with his dad and I, doing nothing but playing Legos all day is not a valid career option at any point.

 

At this point, I do really try to make the subjects as interesting to him as possible.  There are some non-negotiable items (he has to read books, but can freely choose from a list I create, and he has to write papers...things like that).  Grades are not what is important, effort is.  We almost always tie the lectures (blech) back to things he enjoys and that helps him relate as well.  Some days and weeks are better than others.  Two steps forward, one back.  

 

It would be very nice if he could get a job.  That might be an option next summer.  He wasn't old enough this year, though.

 

[woolybear]

LisaK- thanks. It's good to hear some similar things. I do really get their not having a totally realistic plan at this point. I don't think I would be as stressed about it if he weren't trying to make a case for going to public school. The hs program he was in last year and the one we plan to keep him in, was small (which he doesn't like) but that is exactly why it is good for him. He can't fly under the radar there, I know and speak to the teachers and program director on a regular basis. No problem could go on for months and me not be informed about it. Last year he got As and Bs there. He's a smart kid. I keep hoping if I put him on this path, at least he'll have a good foundation.

 

We do talk about dreams and plan B. He has said maybe he would be interested in sports psychology or to be an athletic trainer. Today he said his dream job would be to make trails and jumps for mountain biking. I'm not sure how you get an actual job doing that, but our back yard is full of jumps and trails, etc. So he is learning about it.

I guess I don't need to worry so much about college right now, but keep him on a decent path in the present. I can't see the high school being a good situation for him, particularly with his attitude. My feelings about that are sort of like, get over it. When I was his age, I wanted to go to private school. My parents said no. I wasn't happy, but I didn't spend the next several years resenting them for it or wishing for it. Sometimes parents make decisions kids aren't happy about. Even big decisions. Even not sending one to school. It's hard because he can see that "most people around here send their kids to school." Even people in my family who had seemed basically supportive, when we sent him to middle school were clearly relieved. Like it was the best thing because it's SCHOOL. And it would give him a chance to have more freedom. HA! Way less freedom, but he wasn't at home. I guess in a way it was freedom, because even though there were lots of rules, he learned quickly that it was easy to break them. And even if he got caught, what was the big deal? Clearly go off on a long tangent here. Suffice it to say, I don't know if I can get him motivated academically. I will try some of the suggestions others posted. In the meantime, hopefully he will still get a pretty good education where we have chosen for him to be.

[Julie in MN]

He says, as long as I pass and get a high school diploma, that's enough. There are some colleges that will take you no matter what your grades are.

 

Does he get that in high school, an F does not get you a diploma?  Maybe he remembers junior high, when he moved ahead even with Fs.  It's a big change to realize in high school that those courses don't go away, and there are kids in our local high school who are 21 and still working on that high school diploma. 

 

He's 15 so maybe he's figured this out, but there are a lot of kids who do not come away from high school with a diploma.

 

Julie

[Pat in MI]

I had one of those unmotivated teenage boys.  I would like to offer you some encouragement.  My ds would get A's in classes he liked and barely pass classes he disliked.  He had the attitude "as long as I pass the class".  He graduated June 2014 and took a year off.  He didn't work and did not much in this pass year.  I was beginning to worry.  His life had seemed to stall, but he is now signed up for our local community college.   He plans to attend cc for a couple years and then transfer to state university for a degree in computer engineering.  He said he just needed time to figure out what he wanted to do.  He had no idea in high school and couldn't figure out why everyone said you had to go right on to college.  His words,  "Why do I have to know what I want to do with the rest of my life at the age of 18?" Maybe his plans will still change, but at least he now has a plan.   Sometimes it just takes longer, I think, to figure it all out.  HTH

Blessings,

Pat in MI

[ktgrok]

Well, I don't know that I can be much help, because so far, I have only had unmotivated 15 yo boys. For one, we required a job. That worked pretty well. He chose to be homeschooled and I chose to do my best and pray like crazy. He still is not motivated by grades, which makes me a little nuts, but he is in college now and realistically, what can I do?

The other is doing better just through the sloooow maturation process. I still don't know how motivated he is, but he is paying attention to the college stories and is motivated to go. I hope that is enough.

 

My sympathies are with you, especially if you have friends with 15 yo girls. I had to stop seeing some people, because their daughters, lovely girls, were like a different species. Motivated, hard workers with a plan whereas my son was floating around, playing video games. It made me a little crazy which was not good for a mother/son relationship.

 

Yup, same here. Especially with the friends with girls. It's hard. We talk alot about how doing the work now means more leisure time and stuff later. My son likes computers and we talk about how he won't be able to afford them, let alone internet acess, without a decent job. And to get a decent job he needs decent grades. 

[fairfarmhand]

hmmm...The mountain bike trails....perhaps he would be interested in a park ranger, or landcape architect. Civil engineers also work on plans for lots of dirt moving, surveyors help lay out subdivisions and golf courses and other recreational spaces.

 

It's okay to tell him that "well, perhaps making a living as a mountain bike trail designer might not pay all the bills, but train in a related field so you can use those skills to fuel your passion." I'm firmly of the opinion that one's life vocation doesn't have to be one's passion. I mean, how many people work all week and golf on the weekend, or coach little league or work in their church because that is where their true passion lies? Sometimes you go to work to at a job you don't hate to pay the bills so you can feed your family and do your passion on the weekend.