WinsomeCreek Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Wait, did I miss something in skimming the replies? I wasn't under the impression she wouldn't report, just that she has a process that includes speaking with church leadership and protecting her family. We don't have the letter and she isn't the only one at the church wih it. I'm assuming there's a good reason for this plan, especially because I'm in full agreement that this sounds like a highly manipulative move on the guy's part and he probably is minimizing this extent of his abuses. Also, it does sound like he picked who to hand the letter to thoughtfully. Why at this time? You are financially and emotionally entangled. Is it the same with the rest of the folks he confessed to? Did he give letters to anyone who you can honestly say does not have an emotional, financial or practical stake in seeing him protected? If not it's crystal clear that he's manipulating and probably trying to rope in people. I really can't think of a reason he'd do this unless there's something worse due to come to light. Please do what you have to, but this man confessed. Please report him before too much time passes. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Wait, did I miss something in skimming the replies? I wasn't under the impression she wouldn't report, just that she has a process that includes speaking with church leadership and protecting her family. We don't have the letter and she isn't the only one at the church wih it. I'm assuming there's a good reason for this plan, especially because I'm in full agreement that this sounds like a highly manipulative move on the guy's part and he probably is minimizing this extent of his abuses. Also, it does sound like he picked who to hand the letter to thoughtfully. Why at this time? You are financially and emotionally entangled. Is it the same with the rest of the folks he confessed to? Did he give letters to anyone who you can honestly say does not have an emotional, financial or practical stake in seeing him protected? If not it's crystal clear that he's manipulating and probably trying to rope in people. I really can't think of a reason he'd do this unless there's something worse due to come to light. Please do what you have to, but this man confessed. Please report him before too much time passes. I don't know. The whole question about of she is legally obligated to report it made me feel slightly like she was, knowingly or not, seeking permission not to report it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajag Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I don't think you get to have a JAWM about this one. I mean, 99% of topics you can get a JAWM, but JAWM not to report a serious crime with a child victim isn't going to get you far. But it seems that is what people expected? Telling her to take the letter to the police is apparently cruel, and she keeps saying she has "reasons" for not reporting a serious crime but not saying what they are. She, in essence, doesn't want to report it and wants everyone to tell her that's okay. That's a JAWM post. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 She said she was preparing her family before she does it. I don't understand what about that is unclear. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinsomeCreek Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Yes, I had that sense too. I like to give ppl the benefit of the doubt and hope she's more concerned with how soon to report. Or perhaps, as can often happen in shocking and unexpected situations, she needed a wake up call on how real this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I could possibly imagine waiting to report until I heard from the pastor: say, for example, he had already been reported, and the pastor had said he needed to come clean to the community as well. I could imagine that happening, so I would want to find that out. That would be information I would want to know. It should not take too long to get that info. kwg, I thought about whether I should explain the situation I mentioned above, but I think I really should not, because (I think) there are several people from that community on here, and it is really not my story to tell, and it was very painful to everyone. I am sorry to leave you hanging. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 She said she was preparing her family before she does it. I don't understand what about that is unclear. It's really unclear to me and, for all my faults, lack of reading comprehension is not one of them. That's why I asked for clarification. I do not know what she could mean by precautions to protect her family besides maybe reporting anonymously. That she feels her family is threatened by this is very distressing. I am worried about her. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I encountered a problem. I guess this means we will never find out what she decided to do? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I could possibly imagine waiting to report until I heard from the pastor: say, for example, he had already been reported, and the pastor had said he needed to come clean to the community as well. I could imagine that happening, so I would want to find that out. That would be information I would want to know. It should not take too long to get that info. kwg, I thought about whether I should explain the situation I mentioned above, but I think I really should not, because (I think) there are several people from that community on here, and it is really not my story to tell, and it was very painful to everyone. I am sorry to leave you hanging. What difference does it make if he's already been reported before reporting him yourself? How does that actually change anything? I can't imagine what kind of church leader would recommend confessing to one's peers without understanding that those people would want crimes reported to the authorities. As for protecting one's family before reporting, I don't understand what that means. Protecting from what or whom? How will reporting a crime harm her family? This isn't like an organized-crime family, right? And I can't find any post by the op saying she'll report it, just that she'll do the difficult thing, or something. I'm on my phone or I'd double check. If shebsys she'll report it for sure, please point it out. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyThreeSons Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I don't know. The whole question about of she is legally obligated to report it made me feel slightly like she was, knowingly or not, seeking permission not to report it. No, I read that she was actually hoping that she was legally obligated to report, so that she could honestly say, "We didn't have a choice", thereby maybe avoiding some of the backlash she would face if she voluntarily reported it. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I don't know. The whole question about of she is legally obligated to report it made me feel slightly like she was, knowingly or not, seeking permission not to report it. It should be noted that both Colorado and New Jersey have "Duty to Report" laws that make failure to report certain types of felonies - not just for mandatory reporters - a crime. While I would imagine that the intent of these laws are to make bystanders call 911 when they witness a crime (I think California may also have this law due to the case of the teenage girl who was gang raped outside her high school and 20 people saw it happening, some even videotaped it on their phones, but never called the police), it is possible that the full reach could extend to those that have someone confess to a felony of this nature and the person who received the confession does not report. I haven't read the full statutes, just summaries. The moral issue is obvious, but the legal issue which many consider "cut and dry" may be more murky depending on where the OP lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyThreeSons Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Am I the only one who is wondering if the guy is in some sort of 12-step program or something of that nature, and is at the point where he is supposed to be confessing his wrongs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyThreeSons Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 The moral issue is obvious, but the legal issue which many consider "cut and dry" may be more murky depending on where the OP lives. Yes, the legalities can be murky. There are no national laws regarding mandatory reporting -- they vary by state, and sometimes local jurisdictions or organizations may have other rules in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Here's one but it's not the one I was thinking of. Still looking. Thanks. She says she has reported crimes before. I wonder what makes this one so different, of if she similarly waited before reporting other crimes as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Am I the only one who is wondering if the guy is in some sort of 12-step program or something of that nature, and is at the point where he is supposed to be confessing his wrongs? What he did is not the spirit or function of the 4th, 5th, or 9th step. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Am I the only one who is wondering if the guy is in some sort of 12-step program or something of that nature, and is at the point where he is supposed to be confessing his wrongs? Hmmm...interesting...I have never heard of a 12 step type program for offenders, but I wonder about sex addictions. If he were trying to "self treat", then joining a sex addiction support group might be a logical step in his mind though the counseling for pedophilia is different. The thing is that with 12 step programs the asking forgiveness part is not meant to pull in unnecessary bystanders, but to seek forgiveness from those that have been wronged so the letter of confession handed out to church people is not the intent of the step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 The right thing is to report this man to the authorities, by whatever law you seek to cite, whether legal, moral, or spiritual. This just really needs to be said again. Like, 100x. Gently, kindly, softly, loudly, indignantly, insistently, whatever it takes. LavenderGirl, I am sorry. I truly am. This sounds like a challenging thing to face, and I have immense sadness for you that you are facing this challenge. But please, please, please do not be a part of a system that protects this man in any way. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyThreeSons Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 What he did is not the spirit or function of the 4th, 5th, or 9th step. I don't disagree with you, but many people who have been around a 12-step program (and probably other recovery programs) has seen someone who thought they were doing the right thing, but missed the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyThreeSons Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Hmmm...interesting...I have never heard of a 12 step type program for offenders, but I wonder about sex addictions. If he were trying to "self treat", then joining a sex addiction support group might be a logical step in his mind though the counseling for pedophilia is different. The thing is that with 12 step programs the asking forgiveness part is not meant to pull in unnecessary bystanders, but to seek forgiveness from those that have been wronged so the letter of confession handed out to church people is not the intent of the step. I wasn't thinking of a program for sex offenders. I was thinking more along the lines of the guy being in Alcoholics Anonymous and making the connection between his past actions and his use of alcohol. And then he made a misguided attempt to confess and make amends. Note: I have no knowledge that this was the case, but it is the first scenario I thought of when I read about his confession letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 OP- I keep coming back to this thread trying to find the right words. I'm still not sure I will be able to express this well, but I am going to try. Neither of my abusers were ever reported while the abuse was ongoing. When I talked to my mom about reporting the one abuser after the fact she told me not to "ruin his life over a misunderstanding". If either one of my abusers were to admit to even a fraction of their abuse in writing... It would be the most difficult, wonderful thing. Having people know is hard, but having people know and not believe you is worse. I have no doubt that this letter was written as an attempt at manipulation or marginalization of some sort, but it doesn't have to be. You have the opportunity to shine light into a dark place. And even if the victims of this abuser don't appreciate that light, the very act of refusing to let this stay hidden is one of a thousand small steps toward changing the way our society shames victims of sexual abuse. 24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 I don't know. The whole question about of she is legally obligated to report it made me feel slightly like she was, knowingly or not, seeking permission not to report it. You could have just have asked me rather than make assumptions. That is not the reason I asked. I'm sorry if I'm not the most clearly communicative person. As many of you know, I'm dealing with long term sleep deprivation and chronic pain and trying to put two words together is hard, really hard on a good day. I've been dealing with a lot of tooth pain the past few day and it's been tough. I've asked for this thread to be deleted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Also, read my tone as gentle. I try to live my life so I can sleep at night. This guy put you and whoever else got this letter into a position of choice (mandatory reporters aside). You are now feeling defensive about the position he put you into. Thing is, he can make it appear you're the bad guy if you report him. Those in the church that want to sweep this under the rug may talk about you, your dh may lose work over this, and you may feel scorn from people who were willing to let this go (for whatever twisted reason they may find in their heart). I would be ticked at him for putting me in this position. I would also feel a peace by handing over the letter knowing that no man is above the law, even Jesus' wanted people to follow the laws of the land. You in no way have to justify to anyone why you would turn this letter over to authorities. You are not condemning him by doing so. He condemned himself when he took these actions, more so when he wrote a confession letter. People are charged with crimes everyday. Police investigate real crimes and fake calls ever day. The police and the legal system have the authority to decide if there needs to charges brought. It is not incumbent upon you and your family to make those decisions. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 You could have just have asked me rather than make assumptions. That is not the reason I asked. I'm sorry if I'm not the most clearly communicative person. As many of you know, I'm dealing with long term sleep deprivation and chronic pain and trying to put two words together is hard, really hard on a good day. I've been dealing with a lot of tooth pain the past few day and it's been tough. I've asked for this thread to be deleted. I have asked for clarification on several points and have not seen any replies. You sound defensive and in pain. I am sorry. The fact that you are upset with the posters who what you to report it indicates that you very well may have some misgivings about reporting this. I think you would feel less conflicted and worried if you ripped off the bandaid and just made the report. sometimes it seems harder and more difficult but is really quite simple once you do it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Wait, did I miss something in skimming the replies? I wasn't under the impression she wouldn't report, just that she has a process that includes speaking with church leadership and protecting her family. We don't have the letter and she isn't the only one at the church wih it. I'm assuming there's a good reason for this plan, especially because I'm in full agreement that this sounds like a highly manipulative move on the guy's part and he probably is minimizing this extent of his abuses. Also, it does sound like he picked who to hand the letter to thoughtfully. Why at this time? You are financially and emotionally entangled. Is it the same with the rest of the folks he confessed to? Did he give letters to anyone who you can honestly say does not have an emotional, financial or practical stake in seeing him protected? If not it's crystal clear that he's manipulating and probably trying to rope in people. I really can't think of a reason he'd do this unless there's something worse due to come to light. Please do what you have to, but this man confessed. Please report him before too much time passes. No you didn't miss something. I NEVER said we weren't going to report. But did share, regretably, my emotioal struggles regarding the potential fallout and that we were looking into this beforehand regarding our family's safety and preparing something beforehand for our protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 I'm not upset about those who want us to report. But the false accusations and assigning evil intent are just not going to get me to answer further questions. The comment about blaming my friend for the outcome of her investigation (SHE wishes SHE could go back and have a do over, gathering proof before going to the authorities, but she certainly doesn't blame herself and never in a million years would I) was below the belt as well as making decisions based on money. You know that "part and parcel" comment too. Anyways, not going to keep opening up and answering questions with those things going on. Not healthy for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 This is great preparation for what's to come. Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwg Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I am very disheartened that you have asked to have it deleted before updating that you went to the authorities. I am sorry you got so upset. I hope you ended up going to the police. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I don't know. The whole question about of she is legally obligated to report it made me feel slightly like she was, knowingly or not, seeking permission not to report it. I believe she clarified in a later comment that she wanted to know if they had a legal obligation because if someone later gave them grief for reporting they could claim they had no choice. As I read it, she wasn't hoping for permission not to report but for a legal obligation to justify reporting in the face of potential naysayers. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 You are redirecting your anger towards us. That's the unhealthy part. I have certainly not assigned evil intent. I think you are caught up in an unhealthy dynamic here. The bit about the money didn't come out up front. It's weird no matter how many times I read it (I saved your posts for reference). If that isn't a consideration, why not have refunded him and declined the business already? It's a factor of some sort, as you said yourself when you said it was complex. I promise you this is a lot more simple than it seems. You are stressed, tired and in pain. It's a shame he added this to your plate. Don't carry his weight. You realy will feel better when you get it done and over with. Anyone in your community who would recriminate you for reporting this? Anyone who does that is not your friend or safe to be around your kids. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 I'm not angry or upset, Katie. I was not necissarily directing the accusations thing at you (and I'm sorry that it appeared that way), but if you've read this thread and don't agree with my statements that I stand by, then we'll have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Don't carry his weight. :iagree: :grouphug: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I believe she clarified in a later comment that she wanted to know if they had a legal obligation because if someone later gave them grief for reporting they could claim they had no choice. As I read it, she wasn't hoping for permission not to report but for a legal obligation to justify reporting in the face of potential naysayers.Perhaps you are right. That said, why does she need justification? Any naysayers who would be upset with her about that aren't fit to listen to. Ignore them. If her church or camp or whatever mix of community she is worried about recrimination from is that messed up, she needs out. Some people just aren't worth it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 :iagree: :grouphug: I don't. I'm not concerned about him AT ALL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 nevermind 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I'm not upset about those who want us to report. But the false accusations and assigning evil intent are just not going to get me to answer further questions. The comment about blaming my friend for the outcome of her investigation (SHE wishes SHE could go back and have a do over, gathering proof before going to the authorities, but she certainly doesn't blame herself and never in a million years would I) was below the belt as well as making decisions based on money. You know that "part and parcel" comment too. Anyways, not going to keep opening up and answering questions with those things going on. Not healthy for anyone. I don't know about anyone else, but I was thinking the money might be a factor if your dh is owed money and you really need it for your living expenses, so you wanted to get all of your ducks in a row before reporting the guy. The one thing that concerns me the most is that it sounds like you may fear for your family's safety if you report the man. If that is the case, it makes sense that you would want to be sure you, your dh, and your kids would be safe before you take further action -- but I also wonder why you would have that concern (if you do -- I could have completely misread your posts!) I keep hoping you will report back to us that your pastor (or someone else who received the letter) has already reported the guy and the police are investigating. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 No, we don't "have" to know any of this, but the OP asked what we would do. She asked for advice. She asked for gentleness because she was wigging out, and understandably so. And the hive has backed her up. There's been a great deal of support her for her. But she's coming up with remarkably feeble excuses and bizarre assurances as to why, after all this time and all these reasons, she's neglected to do anything. I'm not the only one confused, and those asking for details are doing so in order to help her figure out what to do. This much should be obvious after even a casual reading of this thread. No one is filling in any blanks. I defy you to find one. SKL, I beg you to share an example of what possible mitigating circumstances you personally imagine yourself to explain sitting on evidence of a crime against a child. Please do share because I cannot conceive of such a thing myself. My imagination, as warped as it may be, simply cannot figure out even the most remotest possibilities. The OP sounds scared, I can understand, that to a point. I can't understand it for 5 days, but we all process shock differently. But you, you continually argue for giving the benefit of the doubt to the man who confessed to a crime, a disgusting, perverted, cruel one against his own child at that. I'm dead serious when I ask you to explain under what circumstances should I consider doing so? You keep asking, so now, please, share why. I haven't given the perp the benefit of the doubt as to whether his crime against his daughter was heinous. Personally I think molesters should be treated more harshly by the law than they are. But I have not been willing to jump on the bandwagon of people insisting that because we know he did this to one close person many years ago, he is probably perpetrating more child sex crimes with every minute that passes. It is possible that he is a reoffender, but given that he just confessed to the community, I kind of doubt he's molesting more girls less than a week later. Therefore I am for giving the OP some space to figure out what to do. While some people have been kind in their posts, others have been outright vicious IMO. That is uncalled for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I'm not upset about those who want us to report. But the false accusations and assigning evil intent are just not going to get me to answer further questions. The comment about blaming my friend for the outcome of her investigation (SHE wishes SHE could go back and have a do over, gathering proof before going to the authorities, but she certainly doesn't blame herself and never in a million years would I) was below the belt as well as making decisions based on money. You know that "part and parcel" comment too. Anyways, not going to keep opening up and answering questions with those things going on. Not healthy for anyone. You brought your friend up. If it wasn't to make the point that somehow you needed more proof, then why mention it? You brought up that your DH has a contract with the man and has received partial payment. Why? The point many of us keep making is that you don't need to be heavily involved in this. You provide the information you have to the police and then get out of the way. Instead you keep making posts about needing to speak to the wives of elders in your church and vague comments about needing to "protect" your family, neither of which make sense based on what you have posted. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 OP, are you concerned that this man will molest your own kids? Is this the protecting you're doing? I'm not clear on the fear, or the need for protection, but I hope your family is safe. You can report this anonymously. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I still didn't see a clear statement that reporting was going to occur. Maybe someone could identify the post number? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinsomeCreek Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 But I have not been willing to jump on the bandwagon of people insisting that because we know he did this to one close person many years ago, he is probably perpetrating more child sex crimes with every minute that passes. It is possible that he is a reoffender, but given that he just confessed to the community, I kind of doubt he's molesting more girls... SKL- A lot of this is coming from people who have had experience with or studied molester behavior in general. In fact it is entirely realistic that an offender tests the waters or prepares a social web in order to victimize. It's complex. They will groom entire families. Grooming parents is extremely common. Even though it's possible for this guy to victimize at a church gathering, the greater danger is in developing familiarity with the kids and manipulating the community. Then in a new setting outside of church the kid can be victimized while also being marginalized by the greater community. Doubt this? Look at what OP is already grappling with. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Wise Bauer Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 This seems to have shifted towards attack mode...and the question has been asked and answered, so move on. SWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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