Recently vaccinated individuals can spread diseases

[JeanM]

But exposure is more likely from a recently-vaxed person than from an unvaxed person, because the unvaxed person probably doesn't have the disease at all.  And if he does come down with it, he's going to be quarantined (unlike the recently vaxed person) as soon as symptoms are identified.

 

Statistically we have millions of recently vaxed people walking among us at any given time, but statistically there are very few unvaxed people walking around with those diseases.  So the risks are not directly comparable.

 

Exposure to a recently vaccinated person is clearly more likely, but *most* vaccines are not live viruses. Of the vaccines that are live viruses, most recently vaccinated people most of the time are not shedding virus. Of those who are shedding virus, the virus is an "attenuated" or weakened virus, that is much, much less likely to infect.

 

Being exposed to a person who has the measles, either someone who has not been vaccinated or someone for whom the vaccine did not work, is *highly* likely to result in measles transmission. Being exposed to someone vaccinated with an attenuated measles virus is highly *unlikely* to result in measles transmission.

 

And just FYI, a measles outbreak is defined as three confirmed cases in a geographic area in a month (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143963/). The definition is not based on origin of the cases. It's true that one person getting measles is not an outbreak, but it is rare for one person to have active measles and not infect anyone else. Measles is really, really contagious.

[Butter]

Because there is less of a risk of getting the disease (whatever disease it is) from somebody who was vaccinated with a live virus than from somebody who is infected. It's not like the odds are the same. They're not even close.

 

If I come into contact with someone who has wild chicken pox and someone who is shedding the virus post vaccination, I am equally likely to get chicken pox simply because three cases haven't left me immune.  Because there is a vaccine and most people do get it and so don't get wild chicken pox, I am much more likely to come into contact with someone who is shedding the virus post vaccination than someone who has wild chicken pox.  Because of this, my risk of getting chicken pox (again) is greater from someone who was vaccinated than someone who is just infected.

 

This was the case with polio.  Since the late 70s the only people who got polio in the US were infected via viral shedding post vaccination.  The odds were MUCH greater of being infected that way than from some random person who had polio.

[Murphy101]

They can only be spread to someone who doesn't have immunity. Either those who can't our won't be vaccinated. Shedding doesn't matter if the virus is shed to someone who has been immunized.

Sorta. This is not quite accurate. Because there is a series of shots vs just one and done for a reason. One shot doesn't usually do it. A baby for example who has had their 6week shots is not immune, or fully immune, from several of the issues until closer to 18 months old, when they complete the rounds of vaccinations. Ir even older pending the vaccine and the schedule they are on.

 

So someone can be getting vaccinated and still not be immune.

And some people, for reasons we don't fully understand, don't seem to take the immunization. They get all the vaccines and just don't build an immunity to all of them.

 

I do think virus shedding should be discussed and given consideration. For example, if someone has pertussis, it would be nice if they stayed home while contagious. Why isn't it recommended that people who could be shedding after their vax do the same?

 

That said, I know three people this year dx with pertussis and on antibiotics for it and none of the three stayed home. They said their drs told them they didn't need to as long as they were taking the antibiotics? I thought that was odd.

[Butter]

So, holy cow, did you get studied or reported on because of this?  The literature I've read says this has only happened in 5 people out of 55 million vaccines given.  Maybe I'm reading wrong, but this seems like something exceedingly rare enough that it would be a really big deal and they'd put you through a lot of studies and poking and prodding.  How did you get it?  Changing a diaper or...?

 

I'm sorry that happened to you, the worry was probably agonizing. :(

 

The doctor didn't report it.  Technically I suppose that was the wrong choice since technically chicken pox was reportable to the health department.  Most doctors don't want to fill out the paperwork.  Of course the hospital where I had the ultrasounds to be sure the baby was growing fine and all (he was... and while IUGR was one of the biggest risks, he was 8 lbs 9 oz at birth so clearly me having chicken pox didn't affect his growth at all) wrote in my chart that I had had chicken pox at 19 weeks.  I didn't really care that it wasn't reported.  My oldest son got chicken pox first, and we are pretty sure due to the timeline it was from sharing a drink with the recently vaxed kid (who got what they term a "subclinical infection" - he ended up with a fever, cold-like symptoms, and maybe a spot or two - it might have been chickenpox or some other rash, but he didn't get a typical looking body covering rash - basically, a totally normal reaction).  My daughter got it next, then me, then my middle son, then my husband (we're just the crazy family with TWO parents who have had chicken pox multiple times and lack the ability to get immune - we know I inherited that from my dad, not sure where my husband did since his parents each only had it once).  So I suppose technically my case came from a child with "wild" chicken pox.  We moved about a year and a half later and discovered that the pediatrician wrote on each of the kids' records "chicken pox-like rash."  He said to us it was chicken pox.  It was obvious it was chicken pox.  But when our new doctor in our new state saw that he just laughed.  He said he has seen that before and it's totally because doctors hate to have to report vaccine preventable diseases.  It's a lot of paperwork.  He just wrote in the chart that we reported the previous doctor stated it WAS chicken pox.  So I suspect it happens more often than the literature says.

 

[Murphy101]

My brother gets chicken pox repeatedly. I don't know why. None of his sisters do. I had it wild in 4th grade pretty bad, but that's it. None of my kids have had it. So it sucks they have to have repeated shots for it as adults. I don't vaccinated for this until they are 14. I wouldn't be thrilled if they got it at any age, but it's most dangerous to them after puberty, so that's when we vaccinated for it.

[Butter]

My brother gets chicken pox repeatedly. I don't know why. None of his sisters do. I had it wild in 4th grade pretty bad, but that's it. None of my kids have had it. So it sucks they have to have repeated shots for it as adults. I don't vaccinated for this until they are 14. I wouldn't be thrilled if they got it at any age, but it's most dangerous to them after puberty, so that's when we vaccinated for it.

 

My dad had it twice, but I'm the only one of the three of us who ended up with the nonimmunity thing.  Genetics are a fascinating thing.  My siblings got immune from the case we all had when we were 5 (me), 9, and 13.  Come to think of it, I'm surprised my brother didn't get chicken pox until that old.  It was 1983.  Everyone got chicken pox back then!  My siblings had bad cases.  My dad and I had mild cases.  All three of my cases have been mild as have my husband's.  My three kids who had it all had mild cases, too.  It is the doctor's opinion that we will always get mild cases and never get shingles (my husband's second case was actually contracted from his grandfather with shingles).  The vaccine would, at best, do nothing or, at worst (and more likely), give us yet another case of chicken pox.  For us, even post-puberty, it's not scary, just annoying.  We certainly don't walk around scared of being infected by recently vaxed kids or avoid recently vaxed kids (though we'd probably think twice about sharing a drink with one in the future!).  And we vaccinate our kids against everything other than chicken pox even though my husband had rubella a couple years after he had the rubella shot and so might have immunity issues with that one, too.

[Catwoman]

I doubt anyone knows how many vaccinated people are actually immune to the diseases for which they were vaccinated, as I'm sure most people never bother to be tested to find out. People simply assume that because they had the shot, they are immune, and that is clearly not always the case.

[JeanM]

If I come into contact with someone who has wild chicken pox and someone who is shedding the virus post vaccination, I am equally likely to get chicken pox simply because three cases haven't left me immune.  Because there is a vaccine and most people do get it and so don't get wild chicken pox, I am much more likely to come into contact with someone who is shedding the virus post vaccination than someone who has wild chicken pox.  Because of this, my risk of getting chicken pox (again) is greater from someone who was vaccinated than someone who is just infected.

 

This was the case with polio.  Since the late 70s the only people who got polio in the US were infected via viral shedding post vaccination.  The odds were MUCH greater of being infected that way than from some random person who had polio.

 

Actually this isn't correct. You are much more likely to contract chicken pox from someone who has wild chicken pox. Wild chickenpox is very contagious. The virus in the vaccine is attenuated, and it has been shown to be genetically different from the wild virus.

 

These papers explain: http://jvi.asm.org/content/72/2/965.full#sec-18and http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/197/Supplement_2/S45.full.

 

"V-Oka, the varicella vaccine strain, is attenuated in its infectivity for human skin by virologic measures, including reduced yields of infectious virus and decreased viral protein synthesis."

[TechWife]

I doubt anyone knows how many vaccinated people are actually immune to the diseases for which they were vaccinated, as I'm sure most people never bother to be tested to find out. People simply assume that because they had the shot, they are immune, and that is clearly not always the case.

 

My husband was recently exposed to measles in a restraunt, so he had his titer done. It turned out he was not immune, but he also didn't get the measles, either, so that was good. He's started another round of MMR immunizations. I had my titer drawn for that as well as for chicken pox & Hepatitis B and I am immune to everything except Hepatitis B, so I'll start my immunizations for that later this week. My husband travels internationally, so his risk of exposure to measles (and other things) is pretty high. 

[JeanM]

I doubt anyone knows how many vaccinated people are actually immune to the diseases for which they were vaccinated, as I'm sure most people never bother to be tested to find out. People simply assume that because they had the shot, they are immune, and that is clearly not always the case.

 

On an individual level this is generally true. Most people don't get tested after a vaccine. However the rates of immunity are carefully tested when the vaccine is developed, and immunity in the population is tracked after the vaccine. This is how they come up with numbers to show percent effectiveness of vaccines.

[Tsuga]

What I think I'm hearing is that doctors will warn me if they know I'm going to put my kid in close contact with a person at particular risk. But how would they know whom my kids were going to hang with? No doctor ever asked me about that. No doctor ever warned me about that. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I would guess that most people don't get that speech because the doctors don't know what vulnerable people the kids are likely to encounter.

 

My kids were in daycare when they got their MMR shots. The same people who took care of my kids also took care of babies as young as 6 weeks old, and even let my kids into the room with the infants. Babies and tots regularly bite each other and everything else in such places. Yet I have never heard of people being asked to keep their recently vaxed kids home from daycare, or of them being separated out at the daycare.

 

Come to think about it, my kids were 4 when we all went to visit my sister on bedrest in the hospital with a high risk pregnancy. They got their second MMR shot when they were around that age. Nobody ever said anything about shedding viruses or staying away from vulnerable people.

You are supposed to keep them home or at least away from babies for three days.

 

I got those instructions. That's why they do it on a Thursday or Friday.

[Butter]

Actually this isn't correct. You are much more likely to contract chicken pox from someone who has wild chicken pox. Wild chickenpox is very contagious. The virus in the vaccine is attenuated, and it has been shown to be genetically different from the wild virus.

 

These papers explain: http://jvi.asm.org/content/72/2/965.full#sec-18and http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/197/Supplement_2/S45.full.

 

"V-Oka, the varicella vaccine strain, is attenuated in its infectivity for human skin by virologic measures, including reduced yields of infectious virus and decreased viral protein synthesis."

 

Well, I've gotten chicken pox twice before the shot started being used in the US and once since.  The two before were, of course, from people who had wild chicken pox.  The one since was from someone who had been recently vaccinated.  I am much, much, much more likely to come in contact with recently vaxed people today than people with wild chicken pox.  I don't know if that was true in 2008 when we last got chicken pox, particularly since the "crowd" I tended to be around at the time were non-vaxers and many of them were actively looking to infect their children with chicken pox (which is a whole other issue that I have rather strong feelings about).

[Murphy101]

You are supposed to keep them home or at least away from babies for three days.

 

I got those instructions. That's why they do it on a Thursday or Friday.

Not once in 20 years of baby appts have I ever been told that or ever had the appts scheduled on any particular day of the week bc of it. It's not on any of the info sheets they give either.

[staceyobu]

I do think virus shedding should be discussed and given consideration. For example, if someone has pertussis, it would be nice if they stayed home while contagious. Why isn't it recommended that people who could be shedding after their vax do the same?

 

 

Okay, think of it this way...  The person who has had a live vaccine injected into their body does not typically develop that disease. So, if you get varicella vaccine, you do not develop varicella.  If injecting a person with the disease is not enough to give them the disease, why would someone else be at risk of catching the disease from them?  The instances of this happening are INCREDIBLY rare.  It is not necessarily to isolate everyone for days after a vaccine.  

[Tsuga]

Huh. With both of mine I was told to be careful with hand washing, not to have the toddler in too much contact with unvaccinated individuals, etc.

[JeanM]

If I come into contact with someone who has wild chicken pox and someone who is shedding the virus post vaccination, I am equally likely to get chicken pox simply because three cases haven't left me immune.  Because there is a vaccine and most people do get it and so don't get wild chicken pox, I am much more likely to come into contact with someone who is shedding the virus post vaccination than someone who has wild chicken pox.  Because of this, my risk of getting chicken pox (again) is greater from someone who was vaccinated than someone who is just infected.

 

This was the case with polio.  Since the late 70s the only people who got polio in the US were infected via viral shedding post vaccination.  The odds were MUCH greater of being infected that way than from some random person who had polio.

 

 

Well, I've gotten chicken pox twice before the shot started being used in the US and once since.  The two before were, of course, from people who had wild chicken pox.  The one since was from someone who had been recently vaccinated.  I am much, much, much more likely to come in contact with recently vaxed people today than people with wild chicken pox.  I don't know if that was true in 2008 when we last got chicken pox, particularly since the "crowd" I tended to be around at the time were non-vaxers and many of them were actively looking to infect their children with chicken pox (which is a whole other issue that I have rather strong feelings about).

 

I was responding to your statement that "If I come into contact with someone who has wild chicken pox and someone who is shedding the virus post vaccination, I am equally likely to get chicken pox simply because three cases haven't left me immune." It isn't equally likely.

 

I'm so sorry that you have had the chickenpox repeatedly, I've had it once and it was no fun. If you ever get it again, as a plea from the scientific/medical community, please try to make sure your doctor reports it. I totally understand that isn't your highest priority when you are sick.

[Reefgazer]

Because different hosts have different reactions to a vaccine.  If we all eat live polio here, some will not have any symptoms at all, some will have gastrointestinal illness of varying degrees, and some will wind up paralyzed.  The specifics of host-microbe interactions is one of the most poorly understood aspects of microbiology/immunology.

Okay, think of it this way...  The person who has had a live vaccine injected into their body does not typically develop that disease. So, if you get varicella vaccine, you do not develop varicella.  If injecting a person with the disease is not enough to give them the disease, why would someone else be at risk of catching the disease from them?  The instances of this happening are INCREDIBLY rare.  It is not necessarily to isolate everyone for days after a vaccine.  

 

[Reflections]

On an individual level this is generally true. Most people don't get tested after a vaccine. However the rates of immunity are carefully tested when the vaccine is developed, and immunity in the population is tracked after the vaccine. This is how they come up with numbers to show percent effectiveness of vaccines.

 

Like this?:

 

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199503233321201

 

http://homepage.math.uiowa.edu/~hethcote/PDFs/2004VaccineUSA.pdf

 

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/whooping-cough-outbreak-cdc-answers-your-questions/

 

And there are always outliers....

[Jean in Newcastle]

Huh. With both of mine I was told to be careful with hand washing, not to have the toddler in too much contact with unvaccinated individuals, etc.

Maybe it is just our part of the world?  I live close to you and I was told the same thing. 

 

 

As far as titers go, I was tested for certain ones because of immunity issues.  I'm getting some repeat vaccinations because I did not have antibodies either because they didn't take the first time or because the vaccine wore off.  Most healthy people don't need to be tested.  

[staceyobu]

Because different hosts have different reactions to a vaccine.  If we all eat live polio here, some will not have any symptoms at all, some will have gastrointestinal illness of varying degrees, and some will wind up paralyzed.  The specifics of host-microbe interactions is one of the most poorly understood aspects of microbiology/immunology.

 

Yes.  I understand that.  However, my argument is that if shedding is such a huge concern and is causing outbreaks of disease, why are we seeing so little disease from the actual immunizations?  That doesn't calculate.  

[LucyStoner]

You are free to ignore it. Why read so- called highly polarizing threads when it clearly annoys you?

 

Like I have mentioned before, I post on light- hearted threads all the time. But these types of threads stick out, so you take more notice to them.

 

Another thing is, if the media and everyone that's pushing the agenda would leave us non vaxxers alone, then I wouldn't need to defend the issue etc... It's not like we are going around telling *you* to not vaccinate.

I'm not annoyed. But when you post a lot of controversial threads, don't be flummoxed when people wonder about your intentions or call out pot-stirring type links and news articles.

 

As for non-vaxxers not telling others to not vaccinate, that is so totally not my experience. I have a child with autism and I get anti-vax rhetoric all.the.time. Maybe it's a function of living in the PNW but seriously, people have in fact told me or made assumptions that I wouldn't/shouldn't vaccinate my younger son because of autism. I can not even begin to say how abhorrent I find such comments.

[Jasperstone]

I'm not annoyed. But when you post a lot of controversial threads, don't be flummoxed when people wonder about your intentions or call out pot-stirring type links and news articles.

 

As for non-vaxxers not telling others to not vaccinate, that is so totally not my experience. I have a child with autism and I get anti-vax rhetoric all.the.time. Maybe it's a function of living in the PNW but seriously, people have in fact told me or made assumptions that I wouldn't/shouldn't vaccinate my younger son because of autism. I can not even begin to say how abhorrent I find such comments.

I don't think posting what I did is controversial at all. I was just pointing out that we can't take *all* of the blame when individuals that are recently vaccinated are shedding etc...

 

If my posts upset you, then please block me. As, that's not my intention at all.

 

I'm sorry about your son. I have a fair idea what families go through (worked with autistic children, and have friends with children of that diagnose etc..)

It would be so hard and totally devastating. :-(

[Melissa in Australia]

My goodness, Wild chickenpox. What is it? do people mean just the normal chickenpox? I have visions of people going wild or perhaps wild chickens (do they exist) spreading it.

[SparklyUnicorn]

My goodness, Wild chickenpox. What is it? do people mean just the normal chickenpox? I have visions of people gong wild or perhaps wild chickens (do they exist) spreading it.

 

Maybe that's chickenpox from wild chickens.  LOL

[sewingmama]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102473744#

 

So, please don't automatically just blame the non vaxxers for the spread of them.

The MMR virus is non transmissable...you can't 'shed' it and no one can catch it.

 

The chicken pox virus is ' sheddable' but it is extremely rare and can only be contracted if the vaccinated person themselves got a rash from it first( also rare).

 

Having lived in Alice Springs where their hospital has an entire ward just for kids with rotavirus I've seen how sick these kids get..it's worth the tiny risk of shedding for kids to be vaccinated. If you are really worried about it...stay away from newborns as they are those who typically get the rotorvirus vaccine...adults and older kids are generally immune naturally and don't catch it. Two of my kids had rotorvirus and after being vomited and pooped on every 20 minutes for a week..neither DH or I caught it. Babies are generally the ones who die from it not adults... so it's not really a concern for the adult public.

 

People criticise me all the time because I vaccinated my kids and therefore ' poisoned' them. So yeah..I do get bugged about it by others.

 

Funnily enough I never tell people off for not vaccinating their kids...but I do roll my eyes when they go on and on about their evils. I just hope none of their babies ever pick up something serious enough to kill them. I had measles as a kid...it sucked enough I wouldn't wish it on my kids and got them vaccinated. I don't believe the myths about it and had no reason not to.

 

And for what it's worth...I wouldn't trust an article that uses outdated information for your platforms. Nobody gets vaccinated for smallpox anymore...so it's inclusion is just for the purposes of scaremongering.

[Jasperstone]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine

 

The MMR vaccine is an immunization, mumps, and rubella (German measles). It is a mixture of live attenuated viruses of the three diseases, administered via injection. 

 

-------------------

 

 

I thought if it's live then there's a risk of catching it yourself or passing it on?

[Jasperstone]

In 2013, Eurosurveillance published a report of vaccine strain measles occurring weeks after MMR vaccination in Canada.

 

---------------------

 

Found this above.

 

If anyone wants to read more on it they can copy that into their browers etc...

[JeanM]

In 2013, Eurosurveillance published a report of vaccine strain measles occurring weeks after MMR vaccination in Canada.

 

---------------------

 

Found this above.

 

If anyone wants to read more on it they can copy that into their browers etc...

 

 

This is a link if anyone is interested: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=24330942.

 

The case reported in the paper though has no transmission. They describe a child who had a measles-like symptoms after getting the MMR vaccine, but they specifically say "It is possible that the case’s symptoms were not measles-vaccine-related." They do say that they made sure the child's contacts were vaccinated, but they don't report any symptoms in anyone except the one child. They also make the point, "Of note, only one case report of transmission from vaccine-associated measles has been identified." That is one case, and it it was in 1989.

 

It seems that it is not impossible to get transmission, since they are reporting one case in 1989, but that is pretty close to zero, considering how many people have received the MMR vaccine between 1989 and 2013.

 

[Butter]

My goodness, Wild chickenpox. What is it? do people mean just the normal chickenpox? I have visions of people gong wild or perhaps wild chickens (do they exist) spreading it.

 

Wild is just used to describe chicken pox caught naturally since the virus is "going around" or "out in the wild."  Since the vaccine is used by most people now, it's hard to find people with chicken pox for "pox parties" so people look for those with "wild chickenpox."  It's probably used more often among among anti-vaxers, but as I've said, even though we do vaccinate, a good number of the people I associate with (maybe associated... now that my youngest is going on 7 whether or not kids are vaxed doesn't really come up anymore and honestly couldn't tell you the vax status of a single one of my friends' kids that I have made friends with since Adrian was 3 or 4 years old) do not vax their kids.

[Butter]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine

 

The MMR vaccine is an immunization, mumps, and rubella (German measles). It is a mixture of live attenuated viruses of the three diseases, administered via injection. 

 

-------------------

 

 

I thought if it's live then there's a risk of catching it yourself or passing it on?

 

Because my husband did have rubella a few years after getting the shot, we were warned by two different doctors in two different states that he should be on the watch for signs or symptoms of rubella after our kids were vaccinated with the MMR because there was an ever so slight chance he could get it again since he never had a titer done and the vaccine itself obviously did not confer immunity (he didn't; and none of our kids got so much as a fever from their MMRs except my daughter who reacts a bit strongly to almost every subsequent vaccine she gets in a series).  We were also told not to go around babies for a few days like some upthread have.  So clearly there are doctors who believe shedding and infection of others can occur from the MMR.  I seriously doubt it's a huge issue or something we should worry about at all, though, in the general, vaccinating population and even not in the non-vaccinating public for that matter.  It's most definitely not as big a thing as the anti-vax movement likes to claim.

 

[SKL]

I agree that it isn't "a big thing," but I don't know why anyone would have an issue with someone pointing out the fact.  I think all parents should be warned to keep their kids away from vulnerable people after a live vax, and clearly that is not happening.

 

There are a lot of things that aren't statistically "a big thing" that people bring up, discuss, and even get angry about on here.

[JeanM]

I agree that it isn't "a big thing," but I don't know why anyone would have an issue with someone pointing out the fact.  I think all parents should be warned to keep their kids away from vulnerable people after a live vax, and clearly that is not happening.

 

There are a lot of things that aren't statistically "a big thing" that people bring up, discuss, and even get angry about on here.

 

I totally agree with you, that it isn't a "big thing" and I don't have issues with people pointing this out. I agree that parents should be made aware if the live vax is possibly contagious.

 

I do have issues with articles like the one linked in the OP (http://www.cnbc.com/id/102473744#). In that article there are statements like, "The public health community is blaming unvaccinated children for the outbreak of measles at Disneyland, but the illnesses could just as easily have occurred due to contact with a recently vaccinated individual." It is true that the MMR does contain live virus. However, the odds of contracting measles from a recently vaccinated individual are virtually zero. So it is completely untrue to say that the illnesses could just as easily have been due to the vaccine.

 

The article goes on to quote the Weston A. Price foundation as saying, "the best protection against infectious disease is a healthy immune system, supported by adequate vitamin A and vitamin C."

 

It seems to me that the article is really trying to justify not vaccinating. In my opinion, there is a big difference between saying, hey, be aware that your child was just vaccinated with live virus, and saying that you don't need to vaccinate your child, just be sure to feed him or her a healthy diet.

 

[TranquilMind]

I agree that it isn't "a big thing," but I don't know why anyone would have an issue with someone pointing out the fact.  I think all parents should be warned to keep their kids away from vulnerable people after a live vax, and clearly that is not happening.

 

There are a lot of things that aren't statistically "a big thing" that people bring up, discuss, and even get angry about on here.

I don't understand the hostility about this issue.  People are sounding off like rabid dogs online.  It's kind of frightening that people are so irrational. 

[SKL]

I think the most likely scenario is that a visitor or recent immigrant from a foreign country visited Disneyland with the measles.  There are many places where measles cases are not as uncommon as in the US.  Can't we just accept the fact that life comes with some small risks?

[EmseB]

I don't understand the hostility about this issue. People are sounding off like rabid dogs online. It's kind of frightening that people are so irrational.

If only those dogs had been vaccinated. :(

[staceyobu]

I don't understand the hostility about this issue.  People are sounding off like rabid dogs online.  It's kind of frightening that people are so irrational. 

 

I think the hostility is due to the fact that we have an outbreak of a deadly illness that could have been prevented with vaccination.  No child under the age of 1 year has any measles protection.  How would you feel if your 6 week old died because of contracting a preventable disease?  

 

 

I think the most likely scenario is that a visitor or recent immigrant from a foreign country visited Disneyland with the measles.  There are many places where measles cases are not as uncommon as in the US.  Can't we just accept the fact that life comes with some small risks?

 

That is what happened.  But, it wouldn't have caused an outbreak here if vaccination rates weren't dropping.  Life comes with risks, sure.  I guess we have to determine which ones we want to take.  I don't let my kids ride without carseats. I don't think other people's kids should ride without them either.  I also don't think we need to allow measles and polio to resurface just because "life comes with risk".

[mamajag]

http://www.webmd.com/children/vaccines/news/20150210/measles-vaccine-myths?page=2

 

IOW, my recently vaccinated for MMR kid just might confer immunity to an unvaxxed kid. Bonus! :)

[upincanada]

The CNBC link is to a press release. It's not a news article written by a journalist.

It's a statement written by the Weston A. Price Foundation that CNBC put up on their website.  

Just saying...

sorry if I'm stating the obvious...

[Tanaqui]

I think the most likely scenario is that a visitor or recent immigrant from a foreign country visited Disneyland with the measles.

 

Why do you think this is the most likely scenario, exactly? Which foreign country do you think they came from, and why do you think that?

 

[staceyobu]

Why do you think this is the most likely scenario, exactly? Which foreign country do you think they came from, and why do you think that?

 

The outbreak likely started from a traveler who became infected overseas with measles, then visited the amusement park while infectious. However, no source has been identified.

Analysis by CDC scientists shows that the measles virus in this outbreak is identical to the virus type that caused the large measles outbreak in the Philippines in 2014 . However, the same virus type has been identified within the past 6 months in 14 other countries and at least 6 U.S. states not associated with the current outbreak.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/measles/multi-state-outbreak.html

[SKL]

Why do you think this is the most likely scenario, exactly? Which foreign country do you think they came from, and why do you think that?

 

Because Disneyland is an international tourist spot, and there's a lot more measles in some other countries than there is in the US.

 

I don't know *which* other country, nor does it matter at this point.

 

[Tanaqui]

Because Disneyland is an international tourist spot, and there's a lot more measles in some other countries than there is in the US.

 

I don't know *which* other country, nor does it matter at this point.

 

 

Yes, there are countries with higher measles rates than the US. And yes, there are international tourists that go to Disney.

 

However, 78% of the visitors to Disneyland are from the US, and my guess is that most international visitors are from developed countries with good vaccination rates. (Edit: I had to guess, because I couldn't find the stats. My reasoning is that as Disney is pricey, poor people are less likely to go there - especially if this involves international travel - and thus the only people going there from developing countries are pretty darn wealthy.)

 

Although measles in the US often does come from outside the country, more than half of those cases are actually from Americans returning from overseas trips.

To be blunt, I feel that your original comment was based more in xenophobia than information and facts.

 

[SKL]

Yes, there are countries with higher measles rates than the US. And yes, there are international tourists that go to Disney.

 

However, 78% of the visitors to Disneyland are from the US, and my guess is that most international visitors are from developed countries with good vaccination rates. (Edit: I had to guess, because I couldn't find the stats. My reasoning is that as Disney is pricey, poor people are less likely to go there - especially if this involves international travel - and thus the only people going there from developing countries are pretty darn wealthy.)

 

Although measles in the US often does come from outside the country, more than half of those cases are actually from Americans returning from overseas trips.

To be blunt, I feel that your original comment was based more in xenophobia than information and facts.

 

Xenophobia - you would have to know me a little better to assume that about me.  It could just be that I know a lot of people in and from other countries, know a fair amount about other countries, have traveled (with and without my young kids) to many other countries, worked with many people from other countries, live with people from other countries, and have been romantically involved with people from other countries over the past 20+ years.

 

And since I personally know so many people from outside the US and have personally been to so many tourist spots within and without the US, I can tell you that your assumption that "the only people going there from developing countries are pretty darn wealthy" is quite wrong.  Why, when I went to Disneyland decades ago, the people who took me there were from India, and they were far from rich.  They lived in a small one-bedroom apartment and worked quite hard for their living.  But I guarantee that any time a relative or friend from India visited, they were taken to Disneyland, because having come all the way from India to LA, of course you're not going back without seeing Disneyland.  I don't think it's a stretch to assume similar of folks visiting from other countries.

 

And even if you were a rich person living in a country with measles outbreaks, you could still get measles (if you hadn't already had measles).  It's not like every rich person on earth has been successfully vaxed.

 

It is pretty easy to find the stats re measles outbreaks around the world on the internet.  Even many very developed countries have higher measles rates (and lower vax rates) than the US.  Actually I was researching this a bit yesterday, and it was funny because from hearing the hype, you'd think the US had much higher rates than some of those other countries, but we don't.  And we don't hear people from, say, France or the UK or Japan having a heart attack about measles outbreaks over there.