Why do ACT/SAT before high school?

[Chrysalis Academy]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, and feel free to throw me a link.  But I'm curious why people have their pre-high school age students take the ACT/SAT.  Is it just for practice? For specific talent searches? To fulfill state testing requirements?

 

No agenda behind the question, I'm just curious why people do this and if there are benefits to it I might be missing out on (because things are going really well right now, so I need something new to worry about!  :001_rolleyes:  ;) )

[maize]

I think the answer is "all of the above," though most of those I know who test early do it primarily for talent search reasons.

[quark]

In our case, I needed something in his portfolio that would open doors. Something that would help admissions people at certain places sit up and take notice. A hoop that wasn't too difficult for him to jump. Haven't used the results for talent search (we haven't enrolled in a single talent search program so far) or to fulfill testing requirements.

[LisaKinVA]

In our case it was for special programs/talent search AND for practice.  I don't plan on having her take it again until 9th grade (where she'll do it with the writing), and then "for real" in 11th.  

 

My 3 oldest children have routinely hit ceilings on standardized testing (at age-level, and even when I test them 2 years ahead)...so the tests aren't really good at really helping me nail down real progress -- except areas of relative weakness.  Now, I have a bit more to go on (or not).  For Math, we'll keep doing what we've been doing, because it's obviously working well (a 21 in math is all that's required for dual enrollment in the CC). Science -- we didn't prep for that, and she guessed on half of it and figured it out what she was supposed to be doing half-way through.  Reading, she felt was challenging (but again, we didn't prep for it), but I think all she needs is a bit of additional test prep/maturity for Reading/English/Science to see those scores go up. 

 

 

[regentrude]

All of the above.

DD took the SAT in 7th for talent search. We did not do any of their summer programs, but it was still a good experience.

We used that score to back up her application to take dual enrollment courses at the university in 10th grade. It is very useful as an outside validation of "mom says her kid is special".

[LisaKinVA]

All of the above.

DD took the SAT in 7th for talent search. We did not do any of their summer programs, but it was still a good experience.

We used that score to back up her application to take dual enrollment courses at the university in 10th grade. It is very useful as an outside validation of "mom says her kid is special".

 

Yes...I like this, "validation of 'mom says her kid is special." I got the "smile and nod" from the HS counselor here, when I attempted to argue that my 12yo dd could handle the 3 high school courses I wanted her to take (Biology, Geometry and French 1).  I got a similar response regarding my oldest son (he was 14 at the time) for taking Algebra 2/Trig and Physics.  I sent the scores to the high school...my way of telling them nicely that NO, it's not all in my head ;)

[Penguin]

I received some good thoughts in this thread.

 

The talent searches were the least of my concerns. I wanted to (1) find out if test anxiety was going to an issue for DS (2) satisfy the testing requirement of our government (3) give my son testing practice (4) help me assess his progress.

 

I also paid for the SAT enhanced score report, and found it to be moderately useful. 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

Not only for talent searches, but some summer programs and online classes. Ds took it for camp reasons. I was glad additionally bc we used those scores for dual enrolling bc he hadn't taken it yet In high school. Dd took it bc she wanted to take Arabic and needed a qualifying test score. (She ended up not taking Arabic, but I have no worries about her now and her scores.) I don't have my kids take that many tests (very few), so it does help to have some experience with them.

 

I won't have our current 7th grader take them until high school bc she is just not advanced enough for her to take them. Ds and dd otoh scored higher than avg high schoolers.

[snowbeltmom]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, and feel free to throw me a link.  But I'm curious why people have their pre-high school age students take the ACT/SAT.  Is it just for practice? For specific talent searches? To fulfill state testing requirements?

 

 

Yes, to all of the questions.  I don't test my kids when they are under 11, so the SAT is the first standardized test that they take, and I want them to have practice taking these types of tests before they count.  They have also needed the SAT scores to qualify for some of the summer camp programs/online classes they have wanted to do.  Lastly, I use the score to satisfy my state's homeschooling requirements.  The SAT is less time consuming than the "on level" standardized tests that are given at that age, and the SAT costs less than an evaluation (another option to fulfill the state homeschooling requirement). 

 

[madteaparty]

In our case, we will do it because he likes taking a class through CTY and CTY has the only secular version of that class that I can find (Arabic).

He is currently taking the elementary version of the class, and will continue to do so until we can (so Arabic I now, Arabic 2 next semester and 3 in the summer). I think we have to retest in 6th or 7th grade, and ACT just happens to be the test for that. I hope he remains adequately gifted ;) so he can keep taking his Arabic class, because he sure loves it.

 

ETA: To be honest, we would test early for practice too. I am not anti-test at all. They took 6 full days for testing (minimum. 3 ELA and 3 math) when my DS was in  3rd grade in NYC, I figure the SAT/ACT are fairly painless in comparison ;)

 

ETA again: can I further butt in with a question? Is 7th grade (chronological) the consensus age for ACT/SAT? Or do you do it once your DC has covered a certain amount of math/English? Thanks all.

[KarenNC]

The ACT satisfies our state testing requirement (SAT doesn't), talent search qualification ( in general, but also did SAT in 7th to see if she qualified for the SET program through Johns Hopkins--didn't quite make it), to provide external validation in case it's needed, and for practice.

[8filltheheart]

ETA again: can I further butt in with a question? Is 7th grade (chronological) the consensus age for ACT/SAT? Or do you do it once your DC has covered a certain amount of math/English? Thanks all.

I would simply adjust expectations for scores depending on material covered. I wouldn't have my current 7th grader take it bc she is completing MUS alg/geo this yr (really pre-alg), so it wouldn't tell me much. Conversely, her sister scored a 29 on the math section in middle school while she was studying geo. That tells me a lot. I suspect she will make in the upper 30s when she takes it in the spring as a 10th grader.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Cool, thanks for explaining.  Can someone take a stab at explaining talent searches and related things to me?  I have only a vague notion about these things and I wonder if it's something I should be paying more attention to.

 

I'm also curious about when you decide to go ahead with one of these tests for the first time.  I was thinking that before they cover Algebra, there would be just a ridiculous amount of math they would be unable to do.  Is this not the case?  Or do you guys all have kids that have completed Algebra before they've taken the test?  My 7th grader has just turned 12 and is taking Algebra currently.  I'm wondering if I should be looking into a test this spring, or not till 8th?  Any thoughts?

[Arcadia]

My older will likely take it early because it would be convenient for applying to take CC classes at the CC that is walkable from home. Hubby wants him to take it early out of curiosity.

My older took the California state tests for two mornings of 3hrs each for three years. He is already quite a veteran. He had written tests at Saturday German class so he is familiar with written tests as well. He ask me to register him for the AMC8 next year so more test practise again :lol:

 

ETA:

If he keep his current pace, he would finish algebra 2 and geometry by end of 6th grade.

My boys did the CTY SCAT tests last year and thought the tests were entertaining.

[8filltheheart]

We were posting at the same time, but I personally wouldn't have a child take until they had completed alg and were mid-geo. Adding: the only advantage to 7th grade testing is SET which gives them access to Cogito.org.

[regentrude]

 Is 7th grade (chronological) the consensus age for ACT/SAT? Or do you do it once your DC has covered a certain amount of math/English?

 

For us it just sort of happened, because it never came up before.

In hind sight, I would not plan on doing it before 7th, because the math section requires at least some algebra.

My DD had done half of algebra and no geo (only a little bit in prealgebra); we did some brief geo for test prep when we went through one or two practice tests.

[regentrude]

I'm also curious about when you decide to go ahead with one of these tests for the first time.  I was thinking that before they cover Algebra, there would be just a ridiculous amount of math they would be unable to do.  Is this not the case?  Or do you guys all have kids that have completed Algebra before they've taken the test?  My 7th grader has just turned 12 and is taking Algebra currently.  I'm wondering if I should be looking into a test this spring, or not till 8th?  Any thoughts?

 

My DD took it January of 7th grade. She had started algebra 1 at the beginning of 7th grade and had no geo, only a bit from prealgebra and some test prep. Her math score was in the 64th percentile of college bound seniors, so not too shabby, but her CR score was in the 97th percentile... so, math prep definitely makes more of a difference.

[LisaKinVA]

My daughter had nearly completed Algebra 1 (Forester's book), completed half of TT Geometry, and is currently taking Geometry with Phil4.  I second 8FilltheHeart's recommendation about not taking it until completing Algebra and taking Geometry (about half way through).  The only exception I might make is if I had an exceptionally gifted child with Reading/English...and I was trying for a special Talent Search in that area.  We haven't really done anything with CTY -- but I wanted the option, if we have the finances and desire to do so later down the road.  Mostly, we got the scores for a summer STEM camp application, and for practice.

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

 

ETA again: can I further butt in with a question? Is 7th grade (chronological) the consensus age for ACT/SAT? Or do you do it once your DC has covered a certain amount of math/English? Thanks all.

 

6th graders can take it through Northwestern's NUMATS. 7th grade is when Johns Hopkins' CTY starts testing. I'm not sure about the other talent searches.

 

I had DD take it in 6th primarily because the Educational Testing Service was originally going to be changing the format in 2015. I was concerned about the changes possibly hurting my DD's verbal score (that happened to me in 12th when ETS did one of its previous overhauls). As it turns out, the revised SAT got pushed back to 2016 after I registered her. She was fine taking it in 6th, though she didn't quite make CTY's Search for Exceptional Talent so she's taking it again this year in 7th.

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

I'm kind of drowning in acronym soup here - can anybody help me out with an explanation (or a link) to what some of these things are?

[Crimson Wife]

Cool, thanks for explaining.  Can someone take a stab at explaining talent searches and related things to me?  I have only a vague notion about these things and I wonder if it's something I should be paying more attention to.

 

Here's a good article: http://www.ctd.northwestern.edu/resources/topics/displayArticle/?id=13

 

Hoagie's Gifted has a bunch more if you're curious: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/talent_search.htm

[Dmmetler]

My DD will probably take either the SAT next year, before the 2016 revision date, because she likes cool vocabulary. We test with some third party test yearly, mostly because of the validation that, yes, she really IS that advanced. She also really enjoys talent search test dates with other smart kids.

 

 

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

I'm kind of drowning in acronym soup here - can anybody help me out with an explanation (or a link) to what some of these things are?

 

Sorry, I edited my post to make it more clear.

[Kathy in Richmond]

My kids took the SAT through CTY for the first time in 7th grade.They'd both completed algebra by 6th grade, btw; ds was in algebra 2 and dd in geometry at the time.

 

For us, the pros to testing were

1. Finding out where they stood in a talented pool of kids: The CTY score report takes the SAT scores of these young kids and spreads them out on a bell curve of their own in math and in verbal. Finding out where mine stood relative to other gifted kids was interesting. Since we'd never done any IQ testing, I was just plain curious. It validated what I thought I was seeing and gave me confidence to plan a very challenging program for them.

2. For the kids, the benefit was a chance to take a practice SAT in a low-stakes environment. It was a big confidence booster, and later when it counted, the SAT was not intimidating; they'd been there and done that already. Dd was pleasantly surprised that she'd met her score goals & wouldn't need to retest in high school.

3. If they test high enough on either section, the kids are invited to a state award ceremony. It's not all that big a deal, but my kids enjoyed it somewhat since we usually took a friend along who'd also qualified & made it a fun day out with pizza afterwards. If they test above 700 on either section as a seventh grader, or above 750 as an eighth grader, they are invited to the CTY Grand Award ceremony at Johns Hopkins. This was very well-done and the kids enjoyed going and spending the day there (lunch, college tours, etc), and again usually we met friends they knew from MathCounts or AoPS. Dd got to meet Julian Stanley one year, which was cool!

4. If they top 700 on either section before age 13, they become members of SET (study of exceptional talent). They receive a magazine and newsletter, which the kids enjoyed reading and often has cool ideas of other programs to explore, have access to special boards on the Cogito website, & participate in research questionnaires over the years. (the photo on top of the linked page was of my dd's CTY ceremony group at Johns Hopkins, but darn it, they cut her off!)

 

5. Scoring at the SET level often comes with one-course scholarships to a local college. Very nice cost savings!

6. Access to STB (spatial test battery) testing. For my dd, this was an eye-opener. If you think that you have a VSL, you might want to try this.

 

7. Looks good on their resume. We used it for summer math camp applications, among other things. Didn't do dual enrollment, but if we had, we would have used their scores to advocate for proper placement.

 

In my county of VA, the SAT didn't count for the annual testing requirement, so that wasn't a consideration for us.

[Crimson Wife]

Different universities sponsor different talent searches, some of which have geographical restriction on who can participate and some of which don't.

 

Stanford has Educational Program for Gifted Youth (EPGY)

Johns Hopkins has Center for Talented Youth (CTY) and the highest scorers have a special program called the Search for Exceptional Talent (SET)

Northwestern has their Center for Talent Development (CTD) and their testing program is called NUMATS (Northwestern University M????? Academic Talent Search)

Duke has Talent I????? Program (TIP)

University of Iowa Belin-Blank Center has Belin-Blank Exceptional Student Talent Search (BESTS)

 

There's one in Colorado for kids living in Rocky Mountain states but I'm blanking on the name of it.

 

Carnegie Mellon used to have a talent search called C-MITES but it got eliminated last spring.

 

[Penguin]

Duke TIP:  Duke's Talent Identification Program

 

JHU CTY:  Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth.  SET (Study of Exceptional Talent) is a subset of CTY requiring higher scores.

 

 

My son recieved a  math score that qualified him for some programs with only AoPS Pre-Algebra, the early chapters of AoPS Algebra, the first four chapters of Foerseter's Algebra, and a smattering of geometry that I have taught him.  We did very, very little prep.

[KarenNC]

Cool, thanks for explaining.  Can someone take a stab at explaining talent searches and related things to me?  I have only a vague notion about these things and I wonder if it's something I should be paying more attention to.

 

I'm also curious about when you decide to go ahead with one of these tests for the first time.  I was thinking that before they cover Algebra, there would be just a ridiculous amount of math they would be unable to do.  Is this not the case?  Or do you guys all have kids that have completed Algebra before they've taken the test?  My 7th grader has just turned 12 and is taking Algebra currently.  I'm wondering if I should be looking into a test this spring, or not till 8th?  Any thoughts?

 

Yes, there was a ridiculous amount of math she hadn't covered, we talked about that upfront, and it didn't bother her. She just did the best she could in that area. When she took the ACT for the first time, she was 12 1/2 and halfway through pre-algebra. Not surprisingly, she had a pretty low score compared to her reading/verbal scores (an 11-12 point spread between math/science and English/reading scores, which is a lot on the ACT), but that has always been her testing pattern. Interestingly, her math score stayed the same from 7th to 8th grade, when she was halfway through algebra 1 (about 30th percentile though the subset scores shifted), but her English, reading, and science all went up, in some areas a bit, in others a lot. In between, she did do a test prep series with our co-op, and I think that plus having had experience with the format helped tremendously in science, which is pretty idiosyncratic on the ACT.

 

As I said, she did one SAT to see about possible qualification for SET in verbal skills, and I may have her do another one in high school, just to see how things go (it's cheap and she has no test anxiety). I'm looking at a bio SAT subject test this spring at the end of her biology class, and she'll probably do another one or two subject tests just to cover bases.

 

I had her do a practice PSAT this year (waiting on the results now) primarily because it was available for free and we could count it as extra credit for the college/career prep class she's doing with the local school system. I decided it wouldn't hurt to see how she did on the current format, and a bit of extra practice isn't a bad thing. She'll be doing the ACT each year to fulfill the state testing reqs, because I don't see an advantage to not do so. 

 

We've never done any of the talent search courses, other than the free ones offered in 4th/5th through Duke, because they are just too expensive for us, and would be even with the kind of financial aid they talk about for our general income bracket.

[amsunshine]

We did it for all the reasons you mentioned, plus, last year, California did not have standardized tests with reported scoring.  I wanted my 6th grader to have test scores to back up the work she had done last year, as opposed to just having "mommy grades".

[dirty ethel rackham]

For my oldest, we did it because he maxed out on the age level testing and I wanted a better assessment of strengths and weaknesses.  The 99th percentile in everything on the IBTS just old me what I already knew - he's smart.  The SAT told me that he was weak in critical reading, which gave us something to work on.  We did use those scores for to access Northwestern U's Center for Talent Development classes, which turned out to be very expensive for what we got. 

[KarenNC]

My DD will probably take either the SAT next year, before the 2016 revision date, because she likes cool vocabulary.

 

That's an idea worth considering, thanks! I wonder if colleges will superscore across versions?

[wendyroo]

I took the SAT in 6th grade back in the day.  I did it because I wanted to take a summer robotics class at a local university that was restricted to students 15 and up.  The university agreed to waive the age requirement if I tested well enough on the SAT; a score of 1350 (out of 1600 back then) convinced them that I would do fine.  

 

An added benefit was that it highlighted gaps in my self-taught math.  I was in public school, and during all of elementary and middle school, they did not teach me any math that I did not already know.  By sixth grade I had largely figured out algebra and the basics of geometry (though I had never encountered using theta as an angle measurement, so that was a bit perplexing), but there were still concepts I was missing.  The detailed SAT score report helped me hone my skills.  Neither of my parents were any better at math than I was, but they sat with me at the kitchen counter for hours as I talked through various problems and tried to puzzle and reverse engineer why the answer was what it was.

 

I ended up taking the PSAT, the SAT two more times and the ACT twice.

 

Wendy

[quark]

I'm also curious about when you decide to go ahead with one of these tests for the first time.  I was thinking that before they cover Algebra, there would be just a ridiculous amount of math they would be unable to do.  Is this not the case?  Or do you guys all have kids that have completed Algebra before they've taken the test?  My 7th grader has just turned 12 and is taking Algebra currently.  I'm wondering if I should be looking into a test this spring, or not till 8th?  Any thoughts?

 

Kiddo had finished algebra 1 about 1.5 times (one year with Dolciani, then extra or maybe you could call it an honors component with challenge questions from AoPS). He had geometry and some advanced geometry. He was in his second semester of algebra 2 with trig when he took the SAT as an 11.5-year-old 6th grader. We did very little prep for math content (only did some practice tests) [and also little for verbal (depended on his love of classic lit and some practice tests, no vocab practice at all)] because he had already covered most of it through his studies. My math is very rusty and I'm not much good past a challenging algebra 1 level program and I could still solve many of the questions correctly. It was mostly reasoning based. Probably not a good comparison given my age vs a younger child taking it in a time crunch environment but just thought it's something you might like to take into account. Also take into account that many talent search participants while advanced, are not yet in high school geometry or algebra 2.

 

My older will likely take it early because it would be convenient for applying to take CC classes at the CC that is walkable from home. Hubby wants him to take it early out of curiosity.

My older took the California state tests for two mornings of 3hrs each for three years. He is already quite a veteran. He had written tests at Saturday German class so he is familiar with written tests as well. He ask me to register him for the AMC8 next year so more test practise again :lol:

 

ETA:

If he keep his current pace, he would finish algebra 2 and geometry by end of 6th grade.

My boys did the CTY SCAT tests last year and thought the tests were entertaining.

 

I'm not sure if CCs in CA accept SAT. I don't think they do but it might depend on the CC. We did however, attach his results *in addition to* CHSPE score report and certificate of proficiency as a way to open doors (and stop pesky questions like why he needed to be in CC). Kiddo hasn't done much other than state testing prior to SAT but SAT time frame wasn't an issue (although I was worried) because they do give short breaks where you are allowed outside the room. The CHSPE, however, was brutal time-wise. He had to be in the room for almost 4.5 hours straight (not typical in every testing center I believe) with no breaks at all. Luckily, the exam itself was easy for him.

[Arcadia]

I'm not sure if CCs in CA accept SAT. I don't think they do but it might depend on the CC.

He would still need to take the placement tests but the admin there won't look like I don't know what I am asking for even though I would get the another tiger mom look from them. I haven't ask about the audit option, I do need to go take a walk there and then go check out the other two that is further :)

[RootAnn]

My dd#1 is taking the ACT next weekend. It is low stress for the reason Kathy in Richmond detailed below. It won't be as scary when she takes it again in high school "for real."

It is a good outside indicator for those who need a score to let her into programs. Dual enrollment in our area uses ACT scores. I can hold onto those for when she's a little older .... If she scores highly enough anyway.

 

2. For the kids, the benefit was a chance to take a practice SAT in a low-stakes environment. It was a big confidence booster, and later when it counted, the SAT was not intimidating; they'd been there and done that already. Dd was pleasantly surprised that she'd met her score goals & wouldn't need to retest in high school.

 

[crazyforlatin]

I'm more confused than Rose.

 

Does SAT/ACT officially count when the kid is 14 years old or freshman?

 

If a kid does well enough on the SAT/ACT during middle school, can we opt out of further testing in high school and ask the board to send those scores taken during middle school to colleges? Am I correctly interpreting Kathy in Richmond's post about her daughter?

 

I was just going to ask about registering for the SAT, but I see the info is here, http://sat.collegeboard.org/register

 

DD is not good at taking timed tests. Maybe this is one way for her to get some practice.

[Kathy in Richmond]

I'm more confused than Rose.

 

Does SAT/ACT officially count when the kid is 14 years old or freshman?

 

If a kid does well enough on the SAT/ACT during middle school, can we opt out of further testing in high school and ask the board to send those scores taken during middle school to colleges? Am I correctly interpreting Kathy in Richmond's post about her daughter?

 

I was just going to ask about registering for the SAT, but I see the info is here, http://sat.collegeboard.org/register

 

DD is not good at taking timed tests. Maybe this is one way for her to get some practice.

Scores from SAT testing taken before grade 9 are automatically deleted from your child's file unless you formally request that they be saved, which we did.  Dd submitted those middle school SATs with her college apps. We weren't planning on testing again, but later in high school dd also took the ACT because VA accepted that test for their annual testing requirement. So she had those on her college apps, too, just to be safe. I think that she would have been OK either way. We did know of another girl who just used talent search scores and had good college results.

 

ETA: Every college I'm familiar with, even if they require that you send in all your SAT scores, do make exemptions for talent search testing.

[8filltheheart]

Treading lightly, because this is a very individual topic and depends much on the school in question. For us, the scores all count. If I hadn't taken it again after 13 it would have been admissible to any university. Most don't check the test date, and don't require you report all results. So many students, myself included, do multiple takes and submit one or two scores, instead of them all. Just because one has taken the test doesn't mean it must be recorded for application to programs.

 

But under the system I was in, a decade ago, there were no trial runs unless it was specifically a practice test. However that didn't mean much of anything - it was up to the parent and student whether or not they wanted to make those scores known upon applying.

SAT scores are purged if the tests are taken before high school unless you specifically request for them to be saved. So they can be a trial run.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Mine were purged, but they got me into summer programs early enough it did not matter.  I took the SAT in 7th grade and scored a 1530 (out of then 1600).  That put me on CalTech's radar and they recruited me to spend summers with them.  With recommendations from the high school math department, I got full summer room/board/tuition paid for as long as I could get to Pasadena, CA and then to campus.  My parents were not very involved, did not do the paperwork, and those test scores were dropped.  Which is just as well, because I didn't want anyone to know about them when I was a teenager.

 

My reason for wanting my son to do testing early is in hopes of such scholarship offers or for him to begin getting college materials so that he can see what is out there.  We do not have the financial resources to pay for him to go to such camps or outlets, but through tests scores such offers can appear.  With his current work he might be too busy, but I want him to know what is possible if he chooses a different path.  He will take the Explore one more time this year (5th grade) since he is comfortable with it now, but then ACT and SAT after that (no writing) at the big highschool in Dh's school district.

 

He also wants to try for National Merit, so as much prep as possible will help for that.  When he sets goals he gets a bit obsessive.

[Kathy in Richmond]

Mine were purged, but they got me into summer programs early enough it did not matter.  I took the SAT in 7th grade and scored a 1530 (out of then 1600).  That put me on CalTech's radar and they recruited me to spend summers with them.  With recommendations from the high school math department, I got full summer room/board/tuition paid for as long as I could get to Pasadena, CA and then to campus.  My parents were not very involved, did not do the paperwork, and those test scores were dropped.  Which is just as well, because I didn't want anyone to know about them when I was a teenager.

 

My reason for wanting my son to do testing early is in hopes of such scholarship offers or for him to begin getting college materials so that he can see what is out there.  We do not have the financial resources to pay for him to go to such camps or outlets, but through tests scores such offers can appear.  With his current work he might be too busy, but I want him to know what is possible if he chooses a different path.  He will take the Explore one more time this year (5th grade) since he is comfortable with it now, but then ACT and SAT after that (no writing) at the big highschool in Dh's school district.

 

He also wants to try for National Merit, so as much prep as possible will help for that.  When he sets goals he gets a bit obsessive.

 

Just a few thoughts....

 

Taking the talent search and doing well (one of mine scored very similar to you & the other not far behind & higher than his sib in math) didn't generate much college mail here.  Maybe it's different now, but those brochures didn't start coming in till a few years later. But, the kids did receive info from early college programs such as Mary Baldwin PEG at the time (not interested here though).

 

Joining SET seemed to produce more summer camp mailings and scholarship opportunities. What helped more in investigating these kinds of programs, though, was just spending my time studying the Cogito website, AoPS boards, MathCounts coaches' boards, & CTY's Imagine magazine and SET newsletters, etc.

 

Taking & doing well on the AMC math contests, not the SAT, is what generated specific math camp mailings & offers for my kids. The AMC also has a box to check in order to opt into mailings on their test sheets.

 

That's cool that Caltech invited you for the summers! That's a program I'm not familiar with at all. I know that they used to have RSI on campus in the summers when my son was in high school (no longer though). Do you know if the program still exists? Did you take regular Caltech courses?

 

CTY and other summer programs do offer financial aid that's need based, and it can sometimes be significant. Mathcamp, for instance, is currently raising funds to make the camp entirely free for kids from families making under $60,000 per year, & it should happen in the not too distant future. I know that's not your son's interest, but just an example.

 

[Legomom]

My kids took the SAT through CTY for the first time in 7th grade.They'd both completed algebra by 6th grade, btw; ds was in algebra 2 and dd in geometry at the time.

 

For us, the pros to testing were

 

1. Finding out where they stood in a talented pool of kids: The CTY score report takes the SAT scores of these young kids and spreads them out on a bell curve of their own in math and in verbal. Finding out where mine stood relative to other gifted kids was interesting. Since we'd never done any IQ testing, I was just plain curious. It validated what I thought I was seeing and gave me confidence to plan a very challenging program for them.

 

2. For the kids, the benefit was a chance to take a practice SAT in a low-stakes environment. It was a big confidence booster, and later when it counted, the SAT was not intimidating; they'd been there and done that already. Dd was pleasantly surprised that she'd met her score goals & wouldn't need to retest in high school.

 

3. If they test high enough on either section, the kids are invited to a state award ceremony. It's not all that big a deal, but my kids enjoyed it somewhat since we usually took a friend along who'd also qualified & made it a fun day out with pizza afterwards. If they test above 700 on either section as a seventh grader, or above 750 as an eighth grader, they are invited to the CTY Grand Award ceremony at Johns Hopkins. This was very well-done and the kids enjoyed going and spending the day there (lunch, college tours, etc), and again usually we met friends they knew from MathCounts or AoPS. Dd got to meet Julian Stanley one year, which was cool!

 

4. If they top 700 on either section before age 13, they become members of SET (study of exceptional talent). They receive a magazine and newsletter, which the kids enjoyed reading and often has cool ideas of other programs to explore, have access to special boards on the Cogito website, & participate in research questionnaires over the years. (the photo on top of the linked page was of my dd's CTY ceremony group at Johns Hopkins, but darn it, they cut her off!)

 

5. Scoring at the SET level often comes with one-course scholarships to a local college. Very nice cost savings!

 

6. Access to STB (spatial test battery) testing. For my dd, this was an eye-opener. If you think that you have a VSL, you might want to try this.

 

7. Looks good on their resume. We used it for summer math camp applications, among other things. Didn't do dual enrollment, but if we had, we would have used their scores to advocate for proper placement.

 

In my county of VA, the SAT didn't count for the annual testing requirement, so that wasn't a consideration for us.

Regarding #6 above and the Spatial Test Battey-- is CTY the only program that has this available? I think that I may have a VSL but he is in Duke Tip. He is currently in 8th grade. This is the first time that I have heard of the Spatial Test Battery and it sounds intriguing.

[Kathy in Richmond]

Regarding #6 above and the Spatial Test Battey-- is CTY the only program that has this available? I think that I may have a VSL but he is in Duke Tip. He is currently in 8th grade. This is the first time that I have heard of the Spatial Test Battery and it sounds intriguing.

The Spatial Test Battery was developed specifically for CTY, and as far as I know, you have to go through them to take it. Looks like it's only available for 5th to 8th grades participating in their talent search, or 9th to 12th graders testing independently of the talent search.

 

One weird thing about it is that the STB is only given at Prometric testing centers independently of the other CTY testing. You just schedule a time at your convenience, and it takes a couple of hours. I checked the STB registration page, and it looks like Prometric centers are located all over the US. Since your son is in 8th already, it might be easiest to just wait till next fall & do it as an independent high schooler.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Just a few thoughts....

 

Taking the talent search and doing well (one of mine scored very similar to you & the other not far behind & higher than his sib in math) didn't generate much college mail here. Maybe it's different now, but those brochures didn't start coming in till a few years later. But, the kids did receive info from early college programs such as Mary Baldwin PEG at the time (not interested here though).

 

Joining SET seemed to produce more summer camp mailings and scholarship opportunities. What helped more in investigating these kinds of programs, though, was just spending my time studying the Cogito website, AoPS boards, MathCounts coaches' boards, & CTY's Imagine magazine and SET newsletters, etc.

 

Taking & doing well on the AMC math contests, not the SAT, is what generated specific math camp mailings & offers for my kids. The AMC also has a box to check in order to opt into mailings on their test sheets.

 

That's cool that Caltech invited you for the summers! That's a program I'm not familiar with at all. I know that they used to have RSI on campus in the summers when my son was in high school (no longer though). Do you know if the program still exists? Did you take regular Caltech courses?

 

CTY and other summer programs do offer financial aid that's need based, and it can sometimes be significant. Mathcamp, for instance, is currently raising funds to make the camp entirely free for kids from families making under $60,000 per year, & it should happen in the not too distant future. I know that's not your son's interest, but just an example.

 

It was designated as a SURF internship (couldn't be full SURF due to age and insurance) but like many SURF kids I took regular classes as well. I did not have to, but I was allowed to if the instructor approved it. There were not many PG programs then, especially on the West Coast. The Robinson Center at U of WA did a bit with summer programs, but you had to live locally and my parents were not going to move to Seattle for the summer. There was no Davidson, and they have done so much to further things.

 

My one of my high school math teachers went to Tech and talked with faculty. I filled out the paperwork and was accepted. There were about five "pre-freshman" as they called us. Girls got greater offers as at that time because Tech was 8:1 males to females. I know that has now changed. I did it for a few years, always a handful of us each summer. I do not know if this still happens at Tech, but we have family who are close alumni at Duke and Ds' mentor went to Berkley. Both have told him if he has the test score and ducks in a row they know teachers who will allow him summers at either institution when he is 13. They talk like this is common with an instructor recommendation.

 

I got a few things after CTY in fifth, but nothing like the SAT.

[Kathy in Richmond]

It was designated as a SURF internship (couldn't be full SURF due to age and insurance) but like many SURF kids I took regular classes as well. I did not have to, but I was allowed to if the instructor approved it. There were not many PG programs then, especially on the West Coast. The Robinson Center at U of WA did a bit with summer programs, but you had to live locally and my parents were not going to move to Seattle for the summer. There was no Davidson, and they have done so much to further things.

 

My one of my high school math teachers went to Tech and talked with faculty. I filled out the paperwork and was accepted. There were about five "pre-freshman" as they called us. Girls got greater offers as at that time because Tech was 8:1 males to females. I know that has now changed. I did it for a few years, always a handful of us each summer. I do not know if this still happens at Tech, but we have family who are close alumni at Duke and Ds' mentor went to Berkley. Both have told him if he has the test score and ducks in a row they know teachers who will allow him summers at either institution when he is 13. They talk like this is common with an instructor recommendation.

 

I got a few things after CTY in fifth, but nothing like the SAT.

 

Interesting, EoO. I had no idea that Caltech ever did informal internships with high school kids. What a wonderful math teacher you had to open that door for you! A lot of times it does come down to knowing the right person. I would have died to have had such an opportunity, but there were absolutely no programs of any sort in rural PA in the 70s (at least that I knew about), and high school was just a test of endurance for me till I could graduate & move on. Caltech was my dream college....I read their mailings & course catalog from front to back and loved the curriculum. But my family wouldn't even consider that I apply to a place that far away from home. I encouraged both of my kids to take a look (& they were both accepted), but they ended up elsewhere. Good luck to your son; I hope things work out well for him.

 

[KaceeM]

Joining kind of late here, but regarding the amount of math and english necessary to score well, I took the ACT in 7th grade through the Duke TIP. I was only halfway through Pre-Algebra at that point (I was in private school. My parents pulled me out in 8th) and I still made a 24 in math.

[Arcadia]

An unintended benefit, a private high school we visited is happy to take my DS10's ACT scores instead of having him take the ISEE for admission. They are also open to him starting high school earlier. Without scores, it is hard to start a conversation about asking for a IEP.

 

The scores would also qualify him to apply for davidson academy but we decided not to apply.

[Dmmetler]

My DD10 just took the SAT. She is interested in early college programs because she wants "friends like her" and had a great time at a summer program last year, and her mentor feels that taking some college classes somewhere on record (as opposed to unofficially auditing) would be good, which requires that she qualify to take them. We decided on the SAT first mostly due to the vocabulary -DD loves strange words and has been reading SAT and GRE vocab books for fun for several years, and the ACT plays to that strength less. She had taken AoPS Beginning a Algebra, which covered most of the algebra topics, and we did a brief run-through the geometry topics on the SAT and a little practice on the SAT essay, but no other prep. I kind of figured that it would be a better indicator of whether she was ready to accelerate more if she took it cold.

 

She's taken the EXPLORE a couple of times, and enjoyed doing so-and liked the idea of taking the SAT. She's happier with hard as opposed to easy. If she didn't enjoy that kind of challenge, we'd have waited.

 

We'll find out in a few weeks how it went-that's a LONG test! She came out happy, but it really wouldn't surprise me to see a low score because she missed a question and gridded wrong from that point on or something, just due to fatigue.

[angela in ohio]

We did them for talent searches. Grade level tests were no longer useful, so they were easily accessed out-of-level tests.

[Arcadia]

I'm not sure if CCs in CA accept SAT. I don't think they do but it might depend on the CC.

My local CC does accept ACT and SAT now :) Even though I don't think DS11 is ready for finite math yet but statistics is something he finds easy generally.

 

"If you did, and you got high scores, you don't need to take the ******* College Placement Tests:

 

College Board (SAT) Mathematics (Level 1 or 2)

550 or above ... You are clear to take Math 1, 2, 8, 10, 12, D, G

College Board (APS) Advanced Statistics

3 or above ... You are clear to take Math 1, 2, 8, 10, 12, D, G

College Board (APC/AB) Advanced Calculus

3 or above ... You are clear to take Math 3B

College Board (APC/BC) Advanced Calculus

5 or above ... You are clear to take Math 4A & 4B

American College Testing (ACT) Mathematics

23 or above ... You are clear to take Math 1, 2, 8, 10, 12, D, G"

 

ETA:

Being able to skip a placement test is always nice. Even better is knowing the CC has an idea of ACT and SAT 2 Math scores instead of me saying my kid is capable.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Arcadia

[quark]

My local CC does accept ACT and SAT now :) Even though I don't think DS11 is ready for finite math yet but statistics is something he finds easy generally.

 

"If you did, and you got high scores, you don't need to take the ******* College Placement Tests:

 

College Board (SAT) Mathematics (Level 1 or 2)

550 or above ... You are clear to take Math 1, 2, 8, 10, 12, D, G

College Board (APS) Advanced Statistics

3 or above ... You are clear to take Math 1, 2, 8, 10, 12, D, G

College Board (APC/AB) Advanced Calculus

3 or above ... You are clear to take Math 3B

College Board (APC/BC) Advanced Calculus

5 or above ... You are clear to take Math 4A & 4B

American College Testing (ACT) Mathematics

23 or above ... You are clear to take Math 1, 2, 8, 10, 12, D, G"

 

So only the SAT Math subject tests, and not the SAT Math subtest. Good to know, thanks!