Catherine Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I can tell one unusually happy tale. I have a RL friend who in a previously life was a Wall Street banker, very smart and confident. She quit when her first and only baby was born, when she was 39, and stayed home for 18 years. Her dh died unexpectedly that year, and after dealing with the emotional and financial aftermath, she started looking for jobs in finance. Without current licenses, it was very challenging, and I honestly don't recall what year this was. Eventually a small brokerage near her home hired her provisionally. She quickly studied for and passed all licenses, did very well, and is now the VP of this small firm, with only the owner to answer to. Not typical, I realize, but I do think one take home here is that ANY experience prior to leaving the work force is valuable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Rent goes up all the time, at least where I live. All the time. No $25/four years rises either....try $25/6 months. It all depends on the market. If the market is tight, landlords can and will do what they like re rent. It cost us around $4000 to move this year. We did most of it ourselves. And we moved only 15 min away! If I had to put my hands on another $4000 any time soon, I'd be in trouble. And 'my husband left me/died/became a paraplegic is not grounds to break a lease here. You have the unusual, not the usual experience. Yikes, I moved 5 times in just over 2 years when I was first divorced - my parents, rented a house, shared a house, rented an apartment, moved in with dh. I'm in an EXTREMELY High COL area and I didn't spend more than a few hundred dollars on any of the moves. I rented a truck four of the times but used dh's Suburban the last move. Are you talking about the total move-in costs including security deposits, first months rent, and last months rent? Utility deposits? My two rentals I only needed first months rent and security deposit ($1500 one time, $1930 the second), minimal utility deposits on the more expensive one because utilities except cable were included. I guess even in my HCOL area, I find the amount you had to pay to be very high. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 In my area we have lots of jobs, but we are a smaller town where some headquarters of larger companies are, and no one wants to move here. They want to work in big cities, so IME the jobs are there but people are not willing to come to where they are located. We are talking good paying IT jobs with great benefits in companies who are debt free so lay offs are not a thing. We need doctors and nurses too. Where? You can PM me if you want. I want to live in a smaller town, but DH is employed in the IT field and needs a larger company to work for. Right now we are in Olando area and I hate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 But hey, if people want to insist that it's totally doable to be a SAHM returning to the workforce after 20 years and supporting herself entirely, without a hubby safety net, it's just a 'little tough for a few months', be my guest :) Trust me, I'd rather live in that world than the real one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Okay, I'm really not sure why I'm being lectured about this. I have not tried to paint any rosy picture or to deny that things would be tough if I had to go it on my own. I simply said that, if the need arose, I "could," I've said I'm making less per hour than I did when I last worked full time 20 years ago. I've said it would be hard. I've said I could not support another person and that I could not maintain the already moderate lifestyle I currently have. I've used the term "bare bones" several times. I've said, repeatedly, that my own situation is specific to me and that I have nothing but compassion for people who aren't doing even as well as I am. I've also said so many times I'm getting sick of repeating it that my comments were specifically in response to Sadie's hypothetical situation of a woman returning to work after a couple of decades with a long-ago degree and only spotty work in the interim and without the safety net of a husband. Since that's exactly what I have, except with the husband, I thought my experience was relevant. So, why, exactly, am I getting smacked down? Also, $3 per hour is less than half the minimum wage. It's actually less than the minimum wage was when I got my first job in high school. So, unless the woman you are talking about was telling a story about something that happened to her three or four decades ago, she probably has a viable case against the bookstore owners. I'm glad that you are happy with the path you're on. I hope it works out exactly the way you want it to. I've chosen not to go back to school because, as I crunch the numbers, it doesn't look like we'd see a net gain. Instead, I've chosen to simply start over, taking low-level jobs in the field that interests me and working my way up. I didn't need any additional education or training to get the jobs I have now. I have never expected to live high during retirement, since I've never done so the rest of my life. I expect to keep working as long as I'm able to do so and to continue to live frugally. So, the path I am on works just fine for me. I was trying to have discussion, not any sort of smack down. I read and post rapidly in short bursts of time- I am sorry that I apparently sounded more brusk than I intended to. For clarity, the $3/hr was just above the minimum wage when the person I was interviewing was in the position to need to work, and work for serious money because she was divorcing and had kids to put through school. Also, she was ambitious for other reasons. Come to think of it she may have said $3.50. That sounds about right, as she would have been heading back to school in the early 1980s. Not that it really matters, it's just an example. This woman was near retirement in 2008 and has since retired. She is in her late 70s at this point and did not retire young. She's moderately comfortable, not "living high". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Sorry, everyone. I know people don't like it when posters delete things. But it has become clear that a thread I started in hopes of having a conversation about the wider world has taken a nasty and personal turn. I apologize for letting it go that far. Again, since it seems to keep getting lost, I have nothing but sympathy and empathy for those who are struggling. I've done it in the past, too, and I know it's very difficult. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Sure. But in a tight market landlords can insist on six month leases. And they can jack up the rent at the end of every lease. There is nothing ever written in to any lease I've signed that makes exceptions for divorce, job loss or death. Perhaps things are different in the US, or anywhere the market is not tight. I hated living in a place with lots of housing pressure and high costs, it definitely felt like the landlord had all the power. We had a year to year lease, no special provisions for breaking it in case of hardship and the rent went up every year. After doing that for seven years I never want to rent again; dh is looking at jobs in other states right now, but our primary location criterion is some place with affordable housing. In the US, that is true in most of the interior of the country away from the biggest cities. I don't think we can afford to live near any of the coasts again, which eliminates a great majority of job options in dh's line of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 My experience here in the SF Bay area is that there are lots of tech jobs, particularly at higher levels, say Director-level the most. Some positions have been open for a while. Many companies are briskly hiring. The salaries and stock options have made it very expensive, though. Some friends of mine in Indiana say it's pretty bad there, and that lots of young talent is leaving the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaillardia Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I have been sending out my resume, having interviews for more than 18 mos. and finally through a connection, may have a job this week. Good thing too, my dh just lost his job. Why I am not sought after: not currently employed and have been a SAHM most of my life and am now....older. I did have a great interview with a staffing agency recently that treated me with dignity and respect. Well, like I said, my dh lost his job...but I got a job! 45 minute drive from home but at least it's a start. Margaret in CO, I'm sorry about your situation. I was told tonight that in our area UPS and Amazon are hiring hundreds, as well as the new Wal-Mart distribution center. The holiday season is gearing up by mid-October and those jobs will last until mid to late January supposedly. Our school districts always have openings for substitute teachers, please check on your school district's website and nearby as well, if there is one nearby. I have five to choose from. They are also hiring teachers' aides. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaillardia Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Tangentially related to the topic at hand, and which I found interesting: http://m.bbc.com/news/business-29343425 I don't like that, Kinsa. I agree with the last part, there's nothing like a face to face interview. I suppose only the highest tech companies will be using assessments such as suggested in the article. Bleh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Seriously ? People plan, yes. It doesn't make it a bed of roses. Not everybody has to juggle the same issues either. But I am glad it seems to be much simpler for many of you and your friends. And the best laid plans... I'm a planner in general. But as I have said, I don't think my plans and education indemnify me. All sorts of things can happen. We really just never know. All we can do is be thankful for whatever securities we do have and face the future as it comes. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Not wanting to enter into the argument on either side, but curious as to where I would find myself if I were on my own: Current salary (four years after returning to work following a long gap) £280 per week before tax, which would come out to around £254 after tax - tax includes payment for government health care. Compulsory national insurance payment (for government pension and unemployment insurance) £14.50, so we are down to £239.50 a week. Two bedroom flat within two miles of my work (assuming that I couldn't afford a car) £104 per week. I assume the area is reasonably safe but I don't know it. So now we are at £135.50. I'm sure that I would need to make at least one trip by bus per week (doctor, etc.) so we are down to £125. I worked out previously that I could eat on about £3 per day so long as I ate no meat. If we add in £1 for toiletries, tea bags and milk, then we are up to £4 a day. That leaves £97. Three pairs of cheap shoes a year comes to around £50, so that's a pound a week. Keeping up appearances at work would require careful charity-shop spending, but I could probably cover all clothes expenses for £100 a year, so another 2 pounds a week. So we are down to £94 pounds a week. Utilities - averages for a 2 bed flat would be £5 for water, £10 for gas and £8 for electricity, so that takes us down to £71. £4 per week for home phone, £2.50 a week for basic internet access and £2.50 for mobile phone (we can argue about whether these are necessary, but they are a basic norm these days). TV licence (compulsory if you watch television or live broadcasts online) £5.60 per week. So we are now down to £56.40. I have assumed food shopping on foot, but a bus would take another £10. Theoretically it all looks possible, but that assumes that I have resources to draw on: savings for a deposit on a flat or moving expenses/furniture, an existing wardrobe, computer, etc. It also assumes no major but completely normal expenses - needing to help a child with a train ticket home and then buy them food in the university holidays if they can't find a job; going down to visit my 90yo mother (train ticket - £180, plus other expenses), periods of unemployment (it took me 7 months to find this job). ETA: I forgot council tax (local tax). I think it would be about £100 per month for that property, so another 25 pounds or so a week. That brings my leeway to £25 a week to cover the normal but not weekly expenditure described in the above paragraph. L 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 To the earlier poster that COL is lower in rural areas--not sure where you're getting that from. Gas in our town today was .25 more expensive than an hour and a half away. And the gas truck drives through our town! If you're spending more than $150 on groceries, it's cheaper to drive to that town, not counting wear and tear on the car. Electricity is more expensive and it sure is cheaper to heat a house at 0 than it is at -35. That's the difference between that next town over and here. For us to see the orthodontist (as we did today) meant 3 hours of driving, over two passes, in a snowstorm. Need chemo or your wisdom teeth out? 3-6 hours of driving. Need a Level II NICU? Won't take long as it will be by helicopter and you don't want to think what THAT will cost! We have good skiing, great views and fabulous sunsets, but it's not cheaper to live in the boonies. This really does depend upon location just like many other things. In our area, gas is 25 - 30 cents less per gallon than what one can get in the city. Rent is about half what one pays in the city (sometimes less). House prices are about 1/3rd the cost. Groceries and restaurants cost less too. The ONLY thing we've found to be less expensive in cities are medical costs. I'm guessing it's supply and demand on that as there are FAR more providers there. Here there's very little choice. We get people who move into our area all the time - then commute an hour to an hour and a half because they simply can't afford to live in the city. They get far more for their money here. We also have better views, less traffic (if you don't count their commute), less crime, and a FAR friendlier atmosphere overall. We consider our situation a win-win that we also work here and have no commute at all (well, I commute 5 miles - 8 minutes). Hubby runs his business from our house. It really is amazing just how much things vary as one changes location. We do have far more in factories/retail, etc, nearby than you do there, so that might be part of the deal, but where I grew up (far more rural than here) it was the same as where I live here (cheaper housing, etc). My mom thinks where we live is expensive. She should see the costs in the cities... (I have told her about them.) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Tangentially related to the topic at hand, and which I found interesting: http://m.bbc.com/news/business-29343425 If I know my answers are part of an assessment for a job, I'm not necessarily going to answer with what I would do IRL. It's not hard to figure out the "right" answer on these kind of tests. I definitely don't think it's going to give deep insights to my personality. One of the advantages of living in my high COL area is that there are jobs available. Most pay better than they would in other parts of the country, our gas prices are lower, and bus/train service is available and easy to use. You definitely won't get as much house for your money, but there are lots of apartment rentals for a big range of prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Move. Margaret has already explained that they are tied down because of the ranch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Over the years, there have been some painful threads on this board, in which some posters take a position that with hard work and effort, most people shouldn't need assistance in supporting themselves. Other posters try to describe how much of a struggle this has been for them in reality, and how even those willing to work very very hard can find themselves in poverty that is hard to climb out of. Emotions naturally run high. These discussions can tap into a lot of fear and insecurity. Jenny, I wonder if you are just seeing the undercurrents of this. It seems odd to me that people appear to simply not believe that you when you state that, given your own circumstances, you personally could support yourself if you needed to, even after taking some years off to homeschool. But it seems strange that people are so resistant to the statement that you, in your situation, believe you can. I didn't read anything in your post that implied that because you can, you think that everyone else should be able to. Every situation is different. Some are quite desperate, and present almost insurmountable problems. I get that, and I know you understand that too. These discussions make me anxious. I think they make a lot of people anxious, and I think they create tension because people who are struggling often feel that no one really understands their situation - that people judge them as having made bad choices or, worse, being lazy. Poverty is a grinding stress, and people are sensitive to attitudes that there are simple solutions. But I don't think you really said anything that implied that you have simple solutions for other people. I thought you were just asking, "Is it getting better out there? How is it where you live?" Even if the economy is improving and there are more jobs, there will still be people who are unable to profit from that - there will still be people who can't find jobs or have aged out of the market and don't have means of reasonable support. I think most of us (including you) know that, but it's still hard to have a discussion about it. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Over the years, there have been some painful threads on this board, in which some posters take a position that with hard work and effort, most people shouldn't need assistance in supporting themselves. Other posters try to describe how much of a struggle this has been for them in reality, and how even those willing to work very very hard can find themselves in poverty that is hard to climb out of. Emotions naturally run high. These discussions can tap into a lot of fear and insecurity. Jenny, I wonder if you are just seeing the undercurrents of this. It seems odd to me that people appear to simply not believe that you when you state that, given your own circumstances, you personally could support yourself if you needed to, even after taking some years off to homeschool. But it seems strange that people are so resistant to the statement that you, in your situation, believe you can. I didn't read anything in your post that implied that because you can, you think that everyone else should be able to. Every situation is different. Some are quite desperate, and present almost insurmountable problems. I get that, and I know you understand that too. These discussions make me anxious. I think they make a lot of people anxious, and I think they create tension because people who are struggling often feel that no one really understands their situation - that people judge them as having made bad choices or, worse, being lazy. Poverty is a grinding stress, and people are sensitive to attitudes that there are simple solutions. But I don't think you really said anything that implied that you have simple solutions for other people. I thought you were just asking, "Is it getting better out there? How is it where you live?" Even if the economy is improving and there are more jobs, there will still be people who are unable to profit from that - there will still be people who can't find jobs or have aged out of the market and don't have means of reasonable support. I think most of us (including you) know that, but it's still hard to have a discussion about it. Quoted because a "like" simply wasn't good enough. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Over the years, there have been some painful threads on this board, in which some posters take a position that with hard work and effort, most people shouldn't need assistance in supporting themselves. Other posters try to describe how much of a struggle this has been for them in reality, and how even those willing to work very very hard can find themselves in poverty that is hard to climb out of. Emotions naturally run high. These discussions can tap into a lot of fear and insecurity. Jenny, I wonder if you are just seeing the undercurrents of this. It seems odd to me that people appear to simply not believe that you when you state that, given your own circumstances, you personally could support yourself if you needed to, even after taking some years off to homeschool. But it seems strange that people are so resistant to the statement that you, in your situation, believe you can. I didn't read anything in your post that implied that because you can, you think that everyone else should be able to. Every situation is different. Some are quite desperate, and present almost insurmountable problems. I get that, and I know you understand that too. These discussions make me anxious. I think they make a lot of people anxious, and I think they create tension because people who are struggling often feel that no one really understands their situation - that people judge them as having made bad choices or, worse, being lazy. Poverty is a grinding stress, and people are sensitive to attitudes that there are simple solutions. But I don't think you really said anything that implied that you have simple solutions for other people. I thought you were just asking, "Is it getting better out there? How is it where you live?" Even if the economy is improving and there are more jobs, there will still be people who are unable to profit from that - there will still be people who can't find jobs or have aged out of the market and don't have means of reasonable support. I think most of us (including you) know that, but it's still hard to have a discussion about it. I completely agree but couldn't figure out how to say it myself. Thank you, Danestress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 In our area, the COL of living is fairly low except heat. Housing has tanked so one can buy a house for $20,000 or rent for $500.00 if one can't own. BUT, there isn't anyone hiring except for part time, minimum wage and you can't live on that. It's impossible and especially when most of the part-time minimum wage jobs are fast food and in order to get your 20 hours per week you have to sign a non-compete clause which means not working a shift a both Taco Bell and Burger King. People are going hungry here. The food bank is always out of food. The state cut assistance off at four years unless one is permanently disabled. In four years of working a 20 hour per week part time job, people will not be self reliant at that point. There aren't any promotions. These jobs do not magically become full time with pay raises much less benefits. I don't see a future here for anyone whose skills are stagnant or who do not have anything marketable to begin with as is sometimes the case. In terms of moving, most people have to let their houses be repossessed and then declare bankruptcy. It's about impossible to sell a home for anything near what it should be worth. Leases are 12 months and the only exception that some landlords make is for military families. My nephew and his wife were able to break their lease without penalty by showing his transfer orders to his landlord. BUT, I think this was because he was in an area where new military families are also always moving in so the landlord does not have trouble finding a responsible family for his house. Otherwise, one is foregoing the security deposit and in general it's $1200.00 to break the lease. Then you need first, last, and security deposit (three months rent essentially) in order to get into the next place so if you pay to break your previous lease and you lose the security deposit, most families without a good emergency savings fund or a 401K they could dip into would be hard pressed to afford the move. There really isn't anything here for anyone. I don't know what's ahead for this part of Michigan but it doesn't look good. I can see where there are places in the US where someone out of the work force a long time but with a long ago degree or a certification that could be updated might be able to get into the job market, as Jenny said, and make a go of it. Certainly, dd as a single mom could make it in NJ on her medic license and especially IF she eventually went into instructing or became an ER tech, so long as she kept her licenses current and only had one or maybe two children. It wouldn't be pretty, and I can't be certain she would live in a decent neighborhood, but she could manage the actual nuts and bolts subsistence. But, NOT if she stayed out of the workforce long enough to let her licenses expire. That would be financial suicide. If she had children and her hubby died so there was no dual income, even though the children could draw on his social security, if she let her licenses slide, she'd end up back here with us. NO WAY would she make it. She is wise and knows that she can't allow her licenses to expire, and that she will always need to work. I think her father would be pretty angry if she didn't stay in the work force enough to keep her licenses and training up to date. He would like to leave the rat race some day and won't be able to do that if he is supporting grandkids! Sure he'd like it if his grands could be homeschooled, but not at the expense of being 75 and figuring out how to support them at that age or worrying about what will happen to them if he dies! I am in a weird position. I could go back to work in music education or music therapy. It would be tough sledding and the pay low, but not so low that I couldn't make it. The positions are there. The Lutheran school that I taught at never filled my position with a full time employee. They could never find a replacement - (I taught choir, hand chimes, was the roving substitute for K-8, and taught science labs to 4th-8th grades...one does not often find someone with the background to do all of that.) They've made due with a part-time music teacher and a part-time substitute never finding anyone to take over the lab the way I did, so I have a standing offer for the position. But, it's a parochial school run on a shoe string budget, so the pay is about $25,000.00 and I'm not likely to ever see a pay raise thought I would have medical. I could make it alone on that in this particular COL area. I could finish raising the boys now in that circumstance simply because until they are 18, they can draw on their father's social security if something happened to him. Well, okay, there is big life insurance. Bottom line is that in this instance, the life insurance would be the security blanket. I am not certain that I will go back to that job though. I am having some fun with this event planning business. If it developed into a business that cleared for me more than the above, I'd probably stick with it. Most of the women I know who homeschool are not in a good position at all if they had to go back to work. They aren't maintaining certifications or licenses, professional training, etc. Many do not have a skill that would make them attractive to an employer. Most of them have young kids at home, and scary thing, husbands with very little life insurance, so if something happens to daddy, they face very real, very extreme poverty. There just simply aren't any major employers out here with full time jobs open for unskilled workers, or skilled workers who have been out of the workforce for a long time. It's a bad situation all around. Margaret, is your husband at all good with medical things? Is your county hiring EMT's. The coursework costs about $1500.00 in most states and in some instances, there are scholarships/grants for it for those that are currently unemployed. It takes a semester of school. If he is a skier, getting ski patrol certification might mean more money during the ski season as well. Just a thought. If he's not good with medical stuff, then I definitely do not recommend it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 My DH has been laid off since February this year, due to the company he worked for selling out and downsizing. Before that, he worked for 10 years for a company that ended up going bankrupt. Anyway, unemployment is long gone and we have enough money for perhaps another month. There are simply no jobs here. I get tired of everybody telling us to move, because we own our little house outright and it would never sell. It would be considered a shack to most people. At least we have shelter. I hate to think where we'd have been the time he was laid off for a year if we had been renting or buying something somewhere. He is out looking for something right now. At this point, we will take anything. As a friend and I were discussing, you can spread the peanut butter really thin, but you at least have to have some peanut butter. We may lose his car and have to do without electricity and central heat, but at least we have shelter and family and friends will not let us starve. I will be going to social services next week to see what we qualify for. Lord willing, it will be very temporary and he will find something soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Most of the women I know who homeschool are not in a good position at all if they had to go back to work. They aren't maintaining certifications or licenses, professional training, etc. Many do not have a skill that would make them attractive to an employer. Most of them have young kids at home, and scary thing, husbands with very little life insurance, so if something happens to daddy, they face very real, very extreme poverty. There just simply aren't any major employers out here with full time jobs open for unskilled workers, or skilled workers who have been out of the workforce for a long time. It's a bad situation all around. This is exactly why I am pushing ahead with the insanity of working on an online Masters degree while raising and homeschooling 5 kids with one on the way. I sincerely hope I never have a need to go back into the workforce while raising kids, but I also am aware that my undergraduate degree and past career experience are both pretty meaningless at this point. A degree in education together with networking through the education community in my area have a better chance of netting me decent employment opportunities should the need arise. My husband doesn't really understand why this is so important to me, he does a great job supporting our family--but then he is not the one interfacing regularly with women who for one reason or another are needing to support a family after years of being out of the work force. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 This is exactly why I am pushing ahead with the insanity of working on an online Masters degree while raising and homeschooling 5 kids with one on the way. I sincerely hope I never have a need to go back into the workforce while raising kids, but I also am aware that my undergraduate degree and past career experience are both pretty meaningless at this point. A degree in education together with networking through the education community in my area have a better chance of netting me decent employment opportunities should the need arise. My husband doesn't really understand why this is so important to me, he does a great job supporting our family--but then he is not the one interfacing regularly with women who for one reason or another are needing to support a family after years of being out of the work force. I know. At first, my husband didn't understand my concern, per se, when I started my master's and the event planning business. His thought was, "We have plenty of income." Then I reminded him that well, there is a daughter and a son in law who some day might have children and need assistance, that my earnings would beef up our savings for that possible eventuality as well as his retirement, and that if something happened to him now, I would not be living FOREVER off his life insurance. Since I'd be paying for the boys' college educations out of it such a pay out would be enough income to ensure that they would receive zero financial aid. They might get a lot of scholarship money, they might not. Best to plan that I'd be paying for it and getting them launched in adulthood. So, what feels like a rather tidy sum of money, doesn't last long when big ticket items like college are coming out of it. Most of the women he works with have always been in the work force, maybe taking a year off when a baby was born, but never out for long, and so he hasn't seen the other side of it professionally. I've seen it enough to have a healthy respect for the difficulty and attempt to plan for it. Once I explained it to him, he "got" it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 My DH has been laid off since February this year, due to the company he worked for selling out and downsizing. Before that, he worked for 10 years for a company that ended up going bankrupt. Anyway, unemployment is long gone and we have enough money for perhaps another month. There are simply no jobs here. I get tired of everybody telling us to move, because we own our little house outright and it would never sell. It would be considered a shack to most people. At least we have shelter. I hate to think where we'd have been the time he was laid off for a year if we had been renting or buying something somewhere. He is out looking for something right now. At this point, we will take anything. As a friend and I were discussing, you can spread the peanut butter really thin, but you at least have to have some peanut butter. We may lose his car and have to do without electricity and central heat, but at least we have shelter and family and friends will not let us starve. I will be going to social services next week to see what we qualify for. Lord willing, it will be very temporary and he will find something soon. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I am so sorry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamajo Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Well this thread has been really sobering, depressing, but yet encouraging all at the same time. It let's me know I'm not the only one going through stuff. I homeschooled 2010-2014 but recently went back to work. Previoiusly, I worked as a full-time real estate agent but when the market tanked in 2008, I was out. My homeschooling years helped me to brush up on grammar, writting, blogging, editing, etc. I was also a member of TOS crew which taught me a lot about social media marketing. Those skills have translated nicely into a job I got with the public school system in the Public Information Office (writting press releases, doing electronic newsletters, etc.) Working after being self-employed as a Realtor and homeschooling, I find it extremely difficult to interact with co-workers day in and day out that don't share my worldview or values. However, my husband helps me cope with that and gives me great advice since he's been in the traditional workforce a lot longer than me. I think you can definitely translate homeschooling skills into certain industries (obviously education as a teacher, TA, newspaper or social media company, etc.) My husband was laid off in summer 2013. We lived off of some savings but he decided to open his own business. He got his car dealer license and we moved to another town to rent a small lot. It's been almost a year. His idea was to get from under our mortgage which was quickly depleting our savings. Because we lived in DC Metro it wasn't hard to find a renter. We sold a lot of furniture and moved into a 1,000 sq ft. house (down from 3,000 sq ft.) and cut our monthly expenses in half. The only downside at the time was I was a little resentful that I had to go to work and put my teens back into traditional school. After much prayer, it hasn't been that bad. They are getting straight As. Although there are a few culture/value clashes, they have made good friendships which has been an answer to prayer. The car business is OK and at time fun, but not enough for my husband to take a salary. We have totally lived off my salary and he is looking into working the overnight shift at one of those min wage jobs. I don't know when he will sleep but we are in our mid 40s so I just pray for continual good health. Moving from DC Metro to where we are (in the same state) is a bit of a cost of living shock. Wages are significantly lower. My high school senior, who is technically still a homeschooler (lots of independent study and CC dual enrolled) works part-time and has more disposable income than her parents. I feel bad asking her for $20 but that's reality. She worked at Taco Bell for a few months when the Yankee Candle store manager she waited on told her if she ever wants to leave Taco Bell she has a job waiting for her in the same mall b/c she recognizes good customer service when she sees it. I always told my kids if you exceed people's expectations by giving outstanding customer service, smile, and be courteous (give Chick Fil A style service at Taco Bell) you will always rise above your peers. Hubby and I joke that our 17 year has two jobs and we are scrambling to find one! LucyStoner...thanks for sharing your advice on upgrading skills. I'm a little reluctant to incur the debt of an advanced agree but all the jobs in this area seem to require it just to make above $40,000/year. Being in business for yourself can be recession proof but someone has to make the predicatable income until things take off. This is my way of ensuring my husband can continue to pursue self-employment for our long term sustainability while I make the predictable income. I wish everyone well. I haven't heard much advice in the way of trusting God through these unpredictable times (I know everyone here does not adhere to the same belief system, that's what makes this board great). However, my best advice is to pray, trust, and believe. We always survive and make it, albeit, with a little help. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Most of the women I know who homeschool are not in a good position at all if they had to go back to work. They aren't maintaining certifications or licenses, professional training, etc. Many do not have a skill that would make them attractive to an employer. Most of them have young kids at home, and scary thing, husbands with very little life insurance, so if something happens to daddy, they face very real, very extreme poverty. There just simply aren't any major employers out here with full time jobs open for unskilled workers, or skilled workers who have been out of the workforce for a long time. It's a bad situation all around. Honestly, some of the ones I know are just in flat out denial about it. To the point of being reckless. They think they will stay married, that their husbands will stay well employed and that he will never be unable to work. And for a lot of them that may be true, but for others it will not. I've had some people remark that planning ahead like I am means I am not committed enough to my marriage. Like maintaining my own career prospects must say something incriminating or dire about the strength of my marriage. From where I am sitting, why is it reasonable to put all the financial pressure on my husband? It's nice for both of us to know that either one of us can work. We have more flexibility and security should he become unemployed or disabled than if I had minimal job skills that would bring in minimum wage or a little more at the very best. I can understand not being able to find the time to go to school or work even PT. Life gets in the way, but I will never understand the attitude that it is a negative thing to have life insurance or to be ready to work for pay. I know a lot of women facing divorce when their kids are older who never, ever thought it would ever happen to them. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kewb Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I don't know if it is flat out denial or just the fact that thinking about what my life is or will become is just so overwhelming. I am in a bit of pickle these days. My dh is disabled and I am his caretaker. Job possibilities are nil because I need to be available to take him to the doctor, administer meds, etc. Plus, the job I used to do no longer exists. The retail jobs refuse to allow for flexible scheduling. It is quite disheartening. I am fortunate that there is plenty of life insurance. I have tried selling our stuff to help pay for his meds. Other then the children's toys no one wants my stuff. Or if they do want it they want it at beyond bargain prices. Prices so below market value it is somewhat insulting. I have given alot away at those prices because I need to feed my family. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (((Kewb))) your situation is exactly why I say no one is indemnified for all scenarios by even the best laid plans. Sometimes things simply do not work out as we planned. I wish we had a more reasonable social safety net for disability and that your family wouldn't have to struggle and worry about food. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kewb Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (((Kewb))) your situation is exactly why I say no one is indemnified for all scenarios by even the best laid plans. Sometimes things simply do not work out as we planned. I wish we had a more reasonable social safety net for disability and that your family wouldn't have to struggle and worry about food. Thank you. It is not quite as dire as it sounds upon rereading that. We do have food it is just some weeks I would like something more than rice and beans. It is the frustration that even though we pay an arm and a leg for health insurance they do not pay for his meds because according to the cdc he doesn't need them. The out of pocket expense on top of the mortgage and our other expenses makes things really tight. Which goes to the point of the best laid plans. Priot to my husband's illness we were living comfortably. His disability has wiped out our savings and our lifestyle has changed accordingly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 {{{hugs}}} to everyone who is hurting right now in this economy. The last career transition my DH went through earlier this year was a real "wake up" call to me. I'd been thinking about grad school given that the kids are now older and more independent, but I actually got my backside in gear to qualify for a substitute teaching permit and start putting together a grad school application package. Hopefully I won't need to work FT until my kids are out of the house, but I need to be prepared for that possibility. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Seriously, yes. It is not a bed of roses, but they don't expect it to be. In the example you gave earlier, they would reduce expenses. Sell off the furniture. Stay with a friend for the week overlap or go tent in a low/no cost campground. Find lower cost housing, by word of mouth..usually an apt in a home or barn, or they rent an older trailer. Some stay in employer provided housing that doesn't require a deposit. We have a lot of immigrants here..the path to low cost accomodations is well worn. Air mattress is another tip..easy to move from place to place, less costly than traditional mattress. This has been common for a while in South Jersey. People who work for the casinos live in campgrounds all season and then move into the shore communities when rentals get cheap in the winter. I don't know what's going to happen down there now that so many casinos are closing. I'm sure it's looking pretty dismal for a lot of people. Dh's whole family is from the area right around AC but none of them work for the casinos as far as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Are we seriously suggesting people resort to pitching tents long term rather than trying to find them actual housing? We have several tent cities here and many illegal tent encampments. The people who live in them are homeless. Having been a "camping" homeless child, I see that as a tactic to *stay alive* not to thrive. Call me crazy but in a first world nation, I think we should be able to do better for poor families than tent cities and sleeping out of cars. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Not wanting to enter into the argument on either side, but curious as to where I would find myself if I were on my own: Current salary (four years after returning to work following a long gap) £280 per week before tax, which would come out to around £254 after tax - tax includes payment for government health care. Compulsory national insurance payment (for government pension and unemployment insurance) £14.50, so we are down to £239.50 a week. Two bedroom flat within two miles of my work (assuming that I couldn't afford a car) £104 per week. I assume the area is reasonably safe but I don't know it. So now we are at £135.50. I'm sure that I would need to make at least one trip by bus per week (doctor, etc.) so we are down to £125. I worked out previously that I could eat on about £3 per day so long as I ate no meat. If we add in £1 for toiletries, tea bags and milk, then we are up to £4 a day. That leaves £97. Three pairs of cheap shoes a year comes to around £50, so that's a pound a week. Keeping up appearances at work would require careful charity-shop spending, but I could probably cover all clothes expenses for £100 a year, so another 2 pounds a week. So we are down to £94 pounds a week. Utilities - averages for a 2 bed flat would be £5 for water, £10 for gas and £8 for electricity, so that takes us down to £71. £4 per week for home phone, £2.50 a week for basic internet access and £2.50 for mobile phone (we can argue about whether these are necessary, but they are a basic norm these days). TV licence (compulsory if you watch television or live broadcasts online) £5.60 per week. So we are now down to £56.40. I have assumed food shopping on foot, but a bus would take another £10. Theoretically it all looks possible, but that assumes that I have resources to draw on: savings for a deposit on a flat or moving expenses/furniture, an existing wardrobe, computer, etc. It also assumes no major but completely normal expenses - needing to help a child with a train ticket home and then buy them food in the university holidays if they can't find a job; going down to visit my 90yo mother (train ticket - £180, plus other expenses), periods of unemployment (it took me 7 months to find this job). L I really like this breakdown, Laura. Thank you for taking the time to share it. I have to say I LOVE that you broke tea bags and milk out in to their own part of a category! I am so with you! My company just opened in the UK. I must try to figure out a reason to get over there again with people who understand the importance of a good cuppa. My two years there spoiled me. Lol! I'm trying to do a similar breakdown for my own circumstances. It's harder (especially the taxes. Mystifying) since I'm in sales so my monthly is so variable. Regardless, it's an excellent exercise to do. It is also reminding me again how much I hate not having pedestrian safe routes! I live less the a mile from most things I would need - grocery, library, post office, etc. However, we have narrow, curvy roads with no shoulder so walking is extremely dangerous! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I saw these charts this morning (based on Pew Research)Turns out people actually have a good sense of what's happening with job markets:http://ilovecharts.tumblr.com/post/99322138736/pewresearch-americans-may-not-be-raging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I just realised that I would be eligible for government benefits if I was left on my own and was earning my current low wage. With one child still at home and the other a student, I would be eligible for £13,000 per year, so about USD20,000: that would make a big difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Unemployment is hard, Margaret. Husband lost his job in his mid-fifties and has not found another full-time position. Luckily, he has been able to put together a portfolio of jobs that make up a (variable) income. I don't know if this is something that your husband could do: look to his skills and see what freelance opportunities there might be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 DH has been unemployed for over a year now. There is literally nothing out there. Our town just opened a Hobby Lobby and hundreds of people showed up just to set up the store. DH could easily do that, and has tons of retail experience, but no. He's trying to get into the tech schools for plumbing, but the wait list is insane. It's just bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 What I'm finding is that, for professional jobs in my field, there is a mismatch between jobseekers, recruiters and company HR. If you don't tick all the boxes with your cv the recruiter/HR won't even consider it. I've spoken with several people in my situation who've said the same thing. The two interviews I've had in six months of looking came first from a recruiter with whom I had a connection (so she was motivated to help me) and second with a major investment bank for a job for which I am qualified (maybe not the best qualified, but qualified enough to interview). The only reason I got the interview at the investment bank is that the hiring MD sent her secretary to retrieve submitted cvs from HR and screen them herself. I never would have gotten the interview if HR had vetted my cv first. It irritates me because it suggests that there is are major inefficiencies in the system that are preventing many qualified individuals (not just me but many more qualified individuals) from finding quality work with firms who are looking for them but are often relying on the recruiters. I have never sent a resume to HR in my life. I would always find out the name of the hiring manager and send it to them personally, and ask for an informational interview. Even without a job posted. HR's entire job description seems to be throwing as many people's resumes in the trash as possible. You might as well save yourself the printing costs as send one there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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