How much land is needed for a dog to roam unleashed? Barn question too.

[RoughCollie]

If we move to PA, I want to buy a house on enough land for our collie to roam without worrying about leash laws or him trespassing on other people's property.

 

He is nearly 7 years old and he is neutered, so I don't expect him to go far.

 

I looked at property for sale with 5-31 acres, and then realized I can't picture how big those properties are.

 

Also, most of the places I looked at come with barns. That's fine, but what does one do with a barn? One had a corral outside the barn, so I suppose that is for horses. One also had a milk house and other outbuildings -- is a milk house where one milks the cow, or where one stores the milk?

 

I'm thinking that if we did have a big enough place with a barn, I would seriously consider getting some chickens and a cow. My husband thinks I am seriously nuts because I've never been around farm animals before, and neither has he. My sense of adventure is greater than his is, though.

 

Also, I'd like to get something for the dog to herd. He's very gentle, but he does love herding anything that moves. Maybe some sheep and lambs? I could shear them and make wool and learn to knit.

 

Thanks for your advice. You are participating in the development of my dream.

 

RC

[Plucky]

An acre or two will do. But a lot of dogs need a fence anyway especially when the neighbor has so many interesting and tasty animals.

[Carrie12345]

What do you do with a barn? You turn it into a school room! :lol:

 

Seriously though, we're looking for land to raise chickens and the vast majority of our fruits and vegetables, and we'd like to keep it between 2 and 3 acres. Having more than you need just means more taxes and more work.

 

I can't really answer the dog question, since I'm not a fan of letting dogs loose. Even The Pioneer Woman, who lives on a cattle ranch, has met heartache that way. I know some see that as just another part of country living, but it makes *me very sad.

 

For chickens, you're probably going to want something smaller than a full sized barn, anyway. Chicken wire along the corral would (imo) make a great dog area.

 

In Storey's Guide to Country Living, they share an illustration of their 2.5 acre property, which includes all sorts of livestock, all fruits and veggies, plus wood.

[Remudamom]

Our dogs have the run of the ranch, but like PW, there are tragedies.

 

My collie used to LOVE sheep. Get some for your barn.

[lovemyboys]

If we move to PA, I want to buy a house on enough land for our collie to roam without worrying about leash laws or him trespassing on other people's property.

 

RC

 

Not to be melodramatic, but an uncle of mine had his huskies killed because they were young and energetic and roamed the nearby state game lands so they were chasing wildlife, like the deer, and shouldn't have been. Plus, this uncle probably didn't license his dogs either, which didn't help.

 

In general, I think once you're out in the country, dogs romp freely and sometimes things happen. I would think a few acres should give him good room. Having a barn sounds like fun too!

[Bambam]

Think about letting that dog roam free for a minute.

 

We have friends who have acreage. Coyotes are seen semi-regularly. No one likes the coyotes (especially when your chicken count is down by more than 50%). They had two dogs died within a week of each other. I suspect neighbors put out poison for coyotes and got the dogs instead since the coyotes are still stealing chickens.

 

Is it worth the risk? What advantage is there to let your dog roam free?

[Laura Corin]

I've been working on this: I had no idea what an acre really looked like.

 

We are looking to buy a place that is on three acres (including the space the house stands on). That's a spacious garden with the equivalent of two tennis courts of lawn, a small paddock, and a little area of woodland. It's fenced though, so our dog will stay inside.

 

Laura

[Miss Marple]

I would say that you need "just a little more" no matter how much you get. I had a Bouvier des Flandres who couldn't seem to stay on 110 acres. I guess it would depend on the dog. My lab tended to wander more when she was young, but now that arthritis and hip issues have set in, she stays close to home.

 

As far as the barn goes, I'd do chickens but no cow (I don't like animals bigger than myself :-) You might consider sheep esp. with your collie. And just ask your boys what they could do with a barn! My sons are begging for one! I doubt it would be empty for long. Imagine a big rope swing, auto restoration, etc. Oh, the possibilities are endless!

 

Good Luck - we love country living.

[E_Edgerton]

Have you ever consulted The Self Sufficient Life and How to Live It by John Seymour? He shows you how to set up your land from 1-5 acres. Really amazing. I highly rec. it. It will tell you everything you need to know, that way if your DH thinks your nuts you can back up everything!:)

[linders]

about letting your dog "roam free," especially since he likes herding. I don't know about the laws in PA, but in Oregon and Washington, a dog that tries to herd a neighbors cows or sheep is confiscated and must either be euthanized or sent to live elsewhere. The herding is viewed as a threat to the livestock. I've had to be careful with my little Aussie when we head out to the farmlands.

 

You might want to check, especially since the farm thing is new to you.

 

But the acreage sure sounds nice!

[dawn of ns]

An acre or two will do. But a lot of dogs need a fence anyway especially when the neighbor has so many interesting and tasty animals.

 

Not too mention a shotgun. :)

 

We're out in the country but my dog stays on a run and is walked on a leash.

 

We're going to be looking for a house soon though and I am hoping for a place with lots of space between the neighbours and our place so that we can take her out unchained to play with. Even though we have a couple of acres now that's not possible because our awkward lot means the neighbours (two of whom are scared of dogs) are too close. Still, I wouldn't open the door and let a dog out without me being with it because of hunters, coyotes, porcupines, bear traps, skunks, cars, etc. Too many hazards in the country. Some you don't even think of. I once chased a neighbour's unchained dog (who's - surprise, surprise - dead now after being struck by a car because he was loose) out of my compost because he was trying to eat a chocolate cake I'd tossed out.

 

One very nice solution my parents have used is to ring the acre around their house with an underground electric fence. It's takes a few weeks to train the dog to it but after that there's a barrier AND the dog has freedom. Still not something I'd trust without me being with the dog though.

[kristavws]

We have 33, fenced acres. Our dogs do have the run of the place, although they tend to prefer to hang around the house. WARNING on the barn; if your dh is like mine, he will try to fill every square inch of it with tools, and not the little kind! He may also claim that he NEEDS a tractor, and again, not the little kind!

 

 

I'm thinking that if we did have a big enough place with a barn, I would seriously consider getting some chickens and a cow. My husband thinks I am seriously nuts because I've never been around farm animals before, and neither has he. My sense of adventure is greater than his is, though.

 

 

RC

 

I grew up in the city, but have learned how to be a country girl ;) We have chickens, which I personally think go along with living in the country, ducks, pigs (seasonally), and when we lived on the ranch cows/calves. We are currently trying to decide whether or not we want to get a milk cow or milk goats. I would love to have horses.

 

If you are seriously thinking about chickens, I would recommend Storey's Guide to Chickens. I read it before I got my first batch of chicks, and it helped me immensely. I still refer to it periodically.

 

We love living in the country. We actually just got back to the country, and missed it horribly during the 10-months we lived in the city (we had to relocate due to dh's work).

 

Krista

[chickenpatty]

We are smack dab in the middle of 5.2 acres, and I would consider it a good deal too small to allow a dog to run free. It also depends on the shape of the land and the location of the house on the land. I can see our neighbors house from mine and even our chickens will go that far when not cooped up.

[HomeOnTheRanch]

We have 50+ acres and we now have a kennel for our dog when we can't keep an eye on him outside. He is crated in the house at night, but when we're going to be gone for any length of time during the day, we kennel him out in the shade. He's a great dog and sticks close to the house, but he has been poisoned twice by Strychnine (neighbor poisons ground squirrels, squirrels travel on our property, dog eats them). Fortunately, we were around both times and were able to treat him promptly. When we're gone, we want to make sure he stays safe.

[RoughCollie]

Wow! Thanks for all the advice and the book suggestions. I can't wait to delve into this more. I sure hope it comes to pass.

 

As far as the dog goes, he wouldn't roam without me. I like roaming around with him too much. I wouldn't just let him run around by himself because something could happen to him -- I was thinking being hit by a car or someone stealing him, but I see more dangers lurk in the country than that.

 

I like to take him up in the mountains, off leash, to roam around for hours. We never see other people up there. He goes as far as I can see him and then circles back around to me. Actually, I think he goes as far as he can keep me in sight.

 

No one's animals will be in danger either. My dog dislikes cats, yet the neighbor's cat lies down on her back between his paws and wiggles around. My dog does nothing except look very pained. She is very fresh with him and loves to tease him. If he gets out of the house by accident, she always shows up in our yard and he chases her. He never hurts her, though. The cat is tiny, about 6 lbs., and the dog is 90 lbs. and bigger than a coffee table. This has been going on for several years.

 

When birds get in the house, he has no reaction except to look at them. My shrew and my chipmunks haven't been hurt by him either. (These are little animals who regularly come into my house when I leave the door open for the dog.) He's more curious than anything. He will try to keep big toads from escaping by lightly placing his paw on them so they won't hop away before I get there to claim my prize.

 

He also hates raw meat. If I buy bones at the store for him, he won't touch them until I've roasted them enough so they aren't raw.

 

My dog is a real sweetheart whose favorite trick is to clasp his big jaws around my forearm and growl -- he does this when new people are around, and I'm pretty sure he thinks it is funny when they think he is biting me. I can barely feel his teeth on my skin.

 

He's basically a clown.

 

I didn't know about people poisoning animals and dogs getting into the poison though. That would be terrible and I'd be sure to protect my dog from that. I'd also make sure he didn't run free by himself so he wouldn't hurt any animals. I mean, I may think he wouldn't, but who knows? He is a dog, after all.

 

Thanks for your help. I knew you all would know something about all this.

 

RC

 

PS I just have to add this because it has happened twice now. A skunk gets into our fenced-in yard. I let the dog out and don't see the skunk until it is too late. The dog stays out for about 15 minutes, following the skunk around the yard. The skunk lets him and doesn't spray him. Finally the dog gets bored following the skunk around and comes in the house. Meanwhile, I am holding my breath and wondering what I will do if the dog gets sprayed. The dog must give off friendly vibes or something. I mean, he is about 6" behind the skunk the whole time -- not yards away or anything.

[Quiver0f10]

You can never have enough land imho LOL. If you can afford the 31 acres, then go for it. We have always let our dogs roam on our property and have never had trouble, but did have trouble with other people'd dogs coming on our land.

[newbie]

You can never have enough land imho LOL. If you can afford the 31 acres, then go for it. We have always let our dogs roam on our property and have never had trouble, but did have trouble with other people'd dogs coming on our land.

 

I always thought that. But, rude awakening with a mere five acres. We are having the toughest time keeping up. 2 acres is landscaped and the rest brush.

 

Its way too much for us.

 

Jet

[Laura Corin]

I always thought that. But, rude awakening with a mere five acres. We are having the toughest time keeping up. 2 acres is landscaped and the rest brush.

 

Its way too much for us.

 

Jet

 

The woodland we are buying has paths through it that need maintaining (the current owner rides his mower through every couple of weeks - it's flat). I would also like to control the stinging nettles, as it's currently hard for a child to explore without getting stung. For that, I think I'll pay to have someone come in twice next year to get them out.

 

The paddock currently has a neighbour's pony grazing in it (to keep the grass down). That still leaves quite a lot of lawn to mow.

 

Laura

[Ottakee]

If you are outside with the dog, then a few acres is plenty--as long as they stick around. Our black lab is older and doesn't leave our 2 acres at all. My friend lets her tiny house dog have run of their 6 acres but the Alaskan Husky (a breed born to RUN) is in a kennel, the house, or on a chain when no one is outside with her.

 

In the country though, dogs do get hit on the road, and in many areas, dogs that are on neighbor's property are free game---esp. if they are bothering livestock, tearing up a garden, bothering a hunting plot, etc.

 

With a barn you will need a few barn cats (get them fixed though) to help with any mice.

 

Then you MUST add horses--esp. if there is a barn, lots of pasture, and a paddock already. We only have 2 acres so we board our horses with my friend but I would love to have enough land to have them close to us.

 

I would also check the zoning laws and planning for the area you are looking at moving to. You don't want to buy a bigger piece of property and then find out you can't have animals there, they are putting in a factory next door, etc.

[EKS]

For reference, an acre is roughly the size of the part of a football field where the game is played (inside the lines).

 

As for the dog thing, it depends on the dog. We live in an area where most people have from 2-30 acres and I see dogs wandering all the time off the owner's property. I would not expect a dog to stay on your property simply due to the size of the property. You would need to supervise outside time or install some type of fencing. A lot of people around here have invisible fences that seem to work well.

[Tammyla]

I'd say it depends on the dog and your nearest neighbors. (Living close to someone with chickens or something might bring out his/her wandering side.) My s-i-l has a big farm and her dog roams free and loves it.

[RoughCollie]

Thanks for the tip about the zoning laws -- yes, that would be terrible to have a factory next door.

 

I'd love to have a horse. I rode one a few years ago and I loved it. I'm not sure we'll be able to afford it, though.

 

As for mice, quadruple-eek. There is a lot about country life (basically, everything) that I don't know.

 

 

Then you MUST add horses--esp. if there is a barn, lots of pasture, and a paddock already. We only have 2 acres so we board our horses with my friend but I would love to have enough land to have them close to us.

 

I would also check the zoning laws and planning for the area you are looking at moving to. You don't want to buy a bigger piece of property and then find out you can't have animals there, they are putting in a factory next door, etc.

 

HomeOnTheRanch, thanks for the heads-up about poison. I didn't know about that danger.

 

Krista, I don't have to worry about DH filling up a barn. He doesn't know how to use a drill, and there is no danger that he will buy tools. I'm the one who likes those things.

 

Dawn, shotguns? Ah, geez, I'd better do some serious learning about country life. Everyone who has replied has mentioned something I didn't know.

 

My husband said I should find a farmer to live with for a month, so I can see what I am getting into before we buy a house with land and a barn. Maybe he's right. He thinks I am looking at the situation with rose-colored glasses and he is correct about one thing: I have never been on a farm in my life. I have touched one sheep, seen one cow, and seen and smelled one pig-sized pig. I saw chickens and small goats at a zoo once. My first attempt at gardening has resulted in one tiny tomato.

 

I've got a lot of learning to do. My mother says I come from a long line of farmers on her side of the family (none in my lifetime) so I must be a throwback to them. It's a fact that no one else in my family has ever had the desire to live in the country except for me. This has been a dream of mine since I was a little kid.

 

RC

[RoughCollie]

Laura, I hope you post lots of pictures of it. It sounds lovely.

 

The woodland we are buying has paths through it that need maintaining.... Laura

 

Jet, my DH reminded me last night that he will be no help at all. I plan to get a riding lawn mower and do the work myself. I do have 4 kids that will be pressed into service. Right now, they are aghast at the thought of living on what they call a farm. Gee, I figured someone in this family would be as excited as I am at the thought. I bet when they meet the animals, they will change their tunes.

 

I always thought that. But, rude awakening with a mere five acres. We are having the toughest time keeping up. 2 acres is landscaped and the rest brush. Its way too much for us.

Jet

 

Tammyla, we will have chickens and I'd bet my last dollar that my dog won't hurt them. I will make sure of it, in any case.

 

EKS, thanks for the reference to football fields. That helps a lot.

 

Jean, I agree that one can never have too much land. My opinion is meaningless, though, since I've never had more than a 1/2 acre. This is going to be a City Slicker meets chickens for the first time story. Actually, I did see some chickens at a zoo once a couple of decades ago. Everyone laughed because I was afraid of them. I'm going to bite the bullet and grow some courage, though.

 

RC

[MicheleB]

We live on a 100-acre dairy farm (in PA, no less!) and we allow our dog to roam free. However, he is a wonderful dog who does not go off our property. We adopted him from the SPCA and he must have been somehow trained to stay within boundaries, because he does.

 

We've had a problem with other people's dogs coming onto *our* property once, but most people around here allow their dogs to be unleashed. There is some kind of cattle dog down the road from us (not quite a mile) who is always unleashed and we've never seen it off their property or on ours, for that matter.

 

I don't know... I think it depends on the dog. Ours is an older dog as well (maybe 6-7), is neutered, and just doesn't have much interest in going off our farm or too far from the house for that matter. IOW... he's lazy. The only time he leaves our property is if he's going for a walk with us.

 

As for a milk house, it is the place where you store the milk.

 

Sheep would be a great idea. They would also help keep down on your weed problems. DH has been saying for years he'd love to get some sheep to keep down our weeds and brush.

[Ottakee]

Yes, zoning is important. It can vary a great deal from township to township so what someone can do on one side of the road might be illegal for the person on the other side of the road.

 

I would also check well water quality and quantity as well as for any underground storage tanks that might leak and cause problems. Another thing just to check when you do get property is for any old wells---often these were just covered by boards which may have long since rotted and benn grown over. You just don't want a child/animal falling into an old well.

 

Horses are a lot of fun but a lot of work.

 

If you are interseted in animals, I would read lots of books/magazines/websites about backyard farming and then find some nice neighbors/friends in your new area to help you out.

[Renee in NC]

An acre or two will do. But a lot of dogs need a fence anyway especially when the neighbor has so many interesting and tasty animals.

 

Yes - please keep them fenced. I have 2 neutered labs and 11 acres and they still run if not contained.

[dawn of ns]

Dawn, shotguns? Ah, geez, I'd better do some serious learning about country life. Everyone who has replied has mentioned something I didn't know.

 

It's not that we're all a bunch of mean people in the country looking for dogs to shoot...Okay, some are. :D But someone might be squinting out into the field at dusk and think your innocent dog is a coyote after chickens or someone might have had enough of dogs tearing up their garbage or someone might just be scared of your dog.

 

Ditto on the comment about poison too. We've got rats down by a pond and I would LOVE to drop some Warfarin down their den (because yes, they came in our house at one point. Problem is now fixed) but I can't of course because of the local cats and dogs. A lot of other people aren't so cautious though.

 

I don't think it's the problems you know about though...It's the ones that never occur to you, like the neighbour's dog scarfing down the toxic chocolate cake I'd tossed in the compost.

 

Lots of land for a dog to run free when it's with you but I'd still keep a run (ours is a long piece of brakeline with her chain attached) or fence or kennel for when you aren't out with them.

[MicheleB]

 

I would also check well water quality and quantity as well as for any underground storage tanks that might leak and cause problems. Another thing just to check when you do get property is for any old wells---often these were just covered by boards which may have long since rotted and benn grown over. You just don't want a child/animal falling into an old well.

 

 

 

Yes! ITA! A few farms we looked at either ended up having water quantity problems, or sulfur water. Yuck! My dh *always* tasted the water of each farm we went to, as well. That was really important to him, and I personally did not want to deal with sulfur water. (Did I spell that right? Or is it sulphur???)

[TengoFive]

I want to fence in our woods and put goats in there. I've seen areas where people have done that, and the whole place looks like a park. It's amazing. I actually want to let them in the yard as well. The chickens keep the grass mowed pretty well out by their house, but not up by the house.

 

We have 26 acres. 1 dog, 2 cats, 30 chickens, 4 cows, and 5 kids. The dog is a Golden Retriever/Great Pyrenees cross who has the run of the place, but never leaves sight of the house. He's amazing. He takes care of the chickens by keeping foxes away, we've seen him chase them off several times. He'll go out occasionally to check on the cows, but he knows they don't really need him. The funniest thing he does though is with our cats. One had kittens and kept them in the car port, beside the steps into the house. Ranger would sleep on the steps with his head hanging over their box. He seriously thought he was their daddy I think. Well, as time went on and mama weaned them, they started nursing on him. He just lays there and lets them nurse and they're very nearly full grown.

 

Anyway, its a long way of saying I think it depends on the dog. I think ours would be fine with 5 acres, but the dog we had before took off all the time.

 

 

 

The woodland we are buying has paths through it that need maintaining (the current owner rides his mower through every couple of weeks - it's flat). I would also like to control the stinging nettles, as it's currently hard for a child to explore without getting stung. For that, I think I'll pay to have someone come in twice next year to get them out.

 

The paddock currently has a neighbour's pony grazing in it (to keep the grass down). That still leaves quite a lot of lawn to mow.

 

Laura