Yes! very, very interesting information on aphasia/dysnomia/anomia. it was very helpful. it sounds a lot like what my 11yo does, esp- doing the round about way of talking when he can't think of the word and describing it to us. i am very surprised none of the speech/language people have ever mentioned this possibility to me- or the neuropsyhologist- because it is something i've mentioned before and hoped might get better. it is interesting because they do well on the picture vocabulary tests. but in everyday life, finding the right words is often a struggle. hmmmm......

well.... that is a good question about therapist vs. pathologist. i really don't know. i think at least one of theirs has been a pathologist, but i will check on that. i have mentioned this problem before but have never been given a definitive answer. i will look up those terms you mentioned. they have a visual-perceptual processing disorder which i guess could also include dyslexia. thanks again! :)

again, apologies for the crude typing... broken finger here. what success have you had with math facts? my boys have a very difficult time remembering things like this. i have, on the recommendation of my brother who is a special educator, just started 'chanting' with them on addition tables. they seem to really like it. basically we just do the addition table from 0+0 to 0+9 in a chant. then the 1+ table. i was going to work on that until they had them down then move up to 2, 3, etc. i also explain the concept to them, that 0 plus any number is that number. if you have 0 apples and i give you 1, how many do you have? because they tend to think 0+ a number equals 0. same with 1+ meanwhile, we still work on math at a grade 3 level, even though they are in grades 4 and 6. they are learning to add and subtract multiple digit numbers, and 'regroup' (or carry and borrow as this old-timer used to say). we use a k12 curriculum through their cyberschool. i also was going to post a math facts poster for them to use for reference as needed, figuring the reinforcement would be helpful and they can find their own answers. any other things that have helped? i can't use another curriculum and i'd really like to try this k12 for now, anyway. the only other special math program the school offers at this point is touch math and i'm not sure, from what i hear, that it's the best choice, either. has anyone had success with chanting?

thanks, dobela. i see what you mean. we are in a hard place because our town has one psychiatrist and he is almost impossible to get into, which is why our regular doctor works with him this way. the nearest ped. psychiatrist would be over 2 hours away. but there would be no 'connection' there as far as really knowing us. i guess i worry about how beneficial the treatment would be when we'd be starting from scratch and also travelling so far. ??? i am stable on my meds and have been for several years, so i just see our family doc and if she had to, she would confer with the psych here in town. my dd is pretty ok with her meds as well, and when we've needed to, the family doc has conferred with the town psyh on her, too. i always feel like the over-reactive stage mother. i know kids argue and i know teens want to assert their independence. my oldest will be 17 in a few weeks, so we've been all through that and we have a 15 yo. in other words, adolescence isn't something new to us, so when i say my child is 'argumentative' i mean, it's a problem. not just a typical 'phase.' kwim? i think i will write her a letter. i can always express myself better that way and just lay out all the symptoms and issues as we're seeing them. and we may very well need psychiatric treatment or maybe more evaluations. it's confusing because he has always been rigid and had autistism spectrum behaviors... which can also be ocd.... and also seem like odd... or bipolar... or... you know. ;) i just want to make certain that celexa isn't contributing to the problem.

thanks, sailormom. his ocd was affecting his quality of life. he was consumed with scrupolosity, a form of ocd. he had to 'confess' everything he did- real or imagined wrong- constantly. it was out of control and he was distraught because of it. and the celexa really did help that. but he went so far on the other end of the spectrum that it makes me wonder what else is going on. he also has processing disorders and other issues. i worry about the bipolar since i have it, my dd has it and my 10yo is leaning towards it. i would like to wean him off the celexa... he only takes 10mg a day... but i don't want to have nothing else in place, either, if he crashes and gets depressed or worse. which is why i'd like our doctor to dialogue with me on it some more. i will just have to tell her it's not "just arguing." i know arguing from over-the-top opposition constantly. i hate these trial-and-error medication issues.

what??? my 11yo was dx with OCD over a year ago. it had been a while before that that we had noticed symptoms but i was really trying to hold off on meds. (sorry for the non-caps, my pinky is broken) he has always been a sweet, loving, happy child except that he is very rigid about things like his cookie not being broken or having the cup he wants to have or everything being 'fair.' i know, doesn't sound easy-going, but aside from things like that he was not argumentative. he started celexa a year or so ago and has become unbearable. he argues from the time he wakes up till he goes to bed. he has meltdowns several times a day. i have bipolar disorder and so does my oldest dd. i also tried my 10yo ds on celexa because he has ocd. it made him very paranoid and the doctor told me she consulted with the town psychiatrist (very small, rural communit) and they felt celexa was not a good choice for him considering our bipolar history and that his symptoms on celexa were probabaly manifestations of a tendency toward bipolar. after she told me that, i started thinking more about my 11yo and wondering if celexa is also causing him these severe argumentative episodes and meltdowns that weren't his typical m.o. yes, he is still very concerned and always has been that his food is a certain way or his cookie is whole or he's first, but the arguing and arguing with everyone- even my sister and mother- wasn't like him in the past. the doctor told me that 11yo was becoming an adolescents and adolescents argue more. that really irked me because i have two teens and she has none. i know what teens are like. i know they 'argue' more and push more for their way. this isn't what i meant. so.... i want to approach this with her again but want to have some more ideas and ammunition. i do think ds shows aspergers tendencies in that he only relates to boys or girls who hunt or love animals. he has a hard time in groups if the topic isn't about animals or maybe baseball. he'd rather go off and be alone. he's very rigid, as i said above. i just don't know what to think. i want to take him off the celexa, but then what? my 10yo tried buspar and it didn't help him. i think my 10yo will need risperdal, but i don't think my 11yo would benefit from that as much as maybe just a mood stabilizer. this, of course, affects schoolwork as well. 11yo *has* to be beside me, or hold the computer, or go first, or isn't going to do his work at all.... all. day. long. it's to the point where i just dread even starting.

Both my boys have speech and language difficulties. They have recently been evaluated and will be receiving services through the cyberschool we started using this year. I've mentioned this before but I can't quite remember what 'issue' this is, so need to ask again. What is probably going on if a child has difficulty remembering the correct word if the word can fit into a type of group. Such as, the difference between binoculars, telescope, microscope. Things that are similar in function but yet very different. Such as washer/dryer, refrigerator/freezer. I want to make sure we work on this in therapy. Is it a word retrieval issue or could it be something else if they have other diagnoses going on? I am glad they at least get the right "category"... but the specific correct word is difficult for them, esp. my 11yo. Another example would be names. We have a big gas well business going on in our area. A woman we know has the last name of Gastrock. My boys can't remember Gastrock but they remember 'gas' and so think her name is Mrs. Gaswell. Which is pretty comical, but pretty typical of their difficulty in this ares. Their cousins names are Misty, Mandy and Megan. They can remember the names, but not necessarily which one is whom.

:lol::lol: I have one of those, so I totally get it. :D

Thank you, Heather. I have wondered about the autism spectrum for both my boys. This boy is very friendly and makes friends wherever he goes, however it is typically with children younger than he is. He is very concrete- both of my boys are- and don't often get nuances and little jokes iwthout explaining. I am supposed to fill out a parent's questionnaire for behavior at the psych-ed evaluation and am just trying to get my ducks in a row, I guess. :)

I posted about this before, I think, but it was a while ago and I need to ask again. My 10yo does not "get" what is going on around him. For example, today I was helping him prepare some breakfast and I asked him, "Do we have milk?" Meaning, we need some milk for this breakfast. He checked the fridge, said, "Yes, we do." and shut the door without getting the milk out. That is just ONE example... there are many more like that. I've posted before that he doesn't "get" when I'm on the phone, or talking to someone else (beyond just rudeness or being a kid)... he just doesn't seem to have a sense of what is going on around him. What is this? How do you look into this more and what do you suggest? We're doing lots of evaluations right now and just wondering about this particular issue.

Wow! Honestly, isn't that a crime? To point a loaded gun at someone? I think tomorrow will bring a whole other round of emotions and thoughts for you, which might include thinking about legal ramifications for this boy. Unbelievable. I'm so glad your son is OK.

I think, too, we can make it easier on ourselves by not so much 'explaining' as we are just stating the facts. Does that make sense? To me, there is a slight difference. 'Explaining' takes emotional energy and hopes to get approval or understanding or sympathy, which we all know is in short supply. ;) 'Stating the facts' says, "Look, here's the way it is and this is what we do about it and let me know if x,y,z happens..." And we don't have to care if people understand it 100% (well, unless it's something life threatening, like an allergy to peanuts or something!), we get to state the way it is and hopefully keep our emotions at bay in the process. It's difficult, I know. It's hard enough to have non-typical children without the world putting us under a microscope. But it is what it is and sometimes we just have to not care quite so much about what others think.

KarenAnne, that story reminds me of myself! And it is interesting to me, as over the last few years I've learned more about my dss' issues, that I have many similar ones, yet so different. For example, we take evening drives a lot in the summers to look for deer. I have a very difficult time picking out deer against a background (trees, high grass, etc). I also am not good with details. I have some face blindness which causes a terrible time in recognizing people, especially outside of their "element." I am not good at putting puzzles together. But- I never, ever had difficulty reading, learning to read, writing, with numbers like my boys do. My 10yo has a lot of the issues I mentioned about myself- figureground problems, recognizing people, etc. But in addition to the not making sense of print (which, by the way, they were not diagnosed as "dyslexic" except for the neuropsych to say that all dyslexia means is 'trouble reading.'), they also have difficulty with opposites, like refrigerator/freezer; washer/dryer. Or, similar groups, such as 3 cousins they've known all their lives, but all their names begin with "M" and they are just starting to get them straight. The refrigerator/freezer, washer/dryer and the like problems are interesting to me, because it is "reverse" of what it should be- much like them writing b,q,d,p wrong, or reversing numbers and letters. And yet, it's not the same process (at least I don't think it is). Yes, very fascinating thread. Lots of good ideas!

Thanks, Heidi. It does feel that way, sometimes! I do see improvements with my dss. I have to look at it year-to-year, but it's there. They do LOTS of sports and physical activities and I think that helps them in many ways. Plus I'm sure we all do things with our kids everyday that we don't even think about as being therapeutic, but really are. I also believe we are dealing with CAPD as well. The ST that is doing the initial evaluations for our cyberschool is looking into audiologists that do CAPD testing. We have had difficulty finding someone! I know reading isn't the only issue with my boys and sometimes I think if I could just "fix" the reading all would be well. But it's so many other things as well, so we keep plugging away piece by piece in ways that work for us. And thanks agian, OhE- I have looked into several places for VT and all have quoted pretty much similar prices. Even when I've told them we can't afford it, no one has offered a discount or pricing tier. Maybe we'll have to go through another round of making calls and asking again. That would be great. There is a new clinic about an hour away from us, but it's in the town I grew up in so I feel very familiar with the area. I was pretty excited about it as it was recommended through the boys' regular eye doctor. The regular eye doctor does VT, but he said his isn't comprehensive enough for our boys' problems (and I really appreciated that honesty!!), so he recommended this other guy. He was very willing to talk with me and discuss VT until I said finances were a concern, then I never heard from him again. But I might just give his office another call and see what he might be willing to work out. Thanks for mentioning that. :)

My twin brother and my mother also have tics. We've all had tics all our lives. I think mine started around age 9 or 10?? That's at least when I remember being teased for them. Yes, I meant ds's tics come and go, and change. Typically the same 3 or 4 tics, but in "cycles". My MIL has a vocal tic, though she'd never admit it. ;) She clears her throat in short "grunts" constantly.

I see what you are saying, OhE- I guess I was using a culmination of many people here over the past few years, since I've been posting, anyway. But the cost is just something we cannot cover and have not been able to cover. Especially for two boys, and the distance we would have to drive. I feel terrible about it, like we're putting a price on our children's success, but we just can't do it. I did get my hopes up about 2 years ago- the director of therapy at our local hospital was arranging for the Lions Club to pay for most of the boys' therapy. But then for some reason they switched it to us paying out a few thousand along with what the Lions would help us with. It was very disappointing. *SIGH* It's just difficult all the way around.

Yes. My 10yo ds does. I also have an undiagnosed tic disorder, much like what you described about yourself. Mine gets a lot worse during stress. Sometimes it isn't very noticeable but a lot of times, it is. My ds's tics have been transient so far. Vocal tics, head rolling/neck scrunching, eye rolling mainly. He hasn't had a tic episode for a few months, though I notice when he's stressed he has some tic behavior.

I know!! The one speech therapist who told my ds this, well, I think she may have seen me actually rolling my eyes. :lol: I wanted to say, "If he knew which way 'L' was supposed to face, it would be helpful.... "

I'll list all the tests given, since I don't really know which will give you the information... :) NEUROPSYCHOLOGY TESTS WISC for Children-IV WRAT Memory and Learning-2 Rey-Osterreith Complex Figure (copy and recall) Early Reading Success Indicator I'm really ignorant about tests and their subtests, but this is what is written within the report itself: secondary visual processing (perception of spatial arrangements, orientations and abstract/geometric shapes) rapid letter naming coding constructional tasks drawing task motor processing OT TESTS VMI with the visual -perceptual subtest and motor subtest We did OT for a while at our local hospital but it was pretty much useless and somehow they determined that neither of my boys were needful of OT. So then we went to a pediatric clinic about 1 1/2 away, which showed pretty significant delays in testing and we did OT there for several months (balance board, writing, exercises to help them with their v-p disorder). But the distance was just too much so we stopped for now. As far as the cyberschool goes, I am really pleased with it thus far. Even though both my boys have the exact same issues and are very behind grade level in reading and being able to make sense of print, AND this is our first year with the school, they allowed my boys to be in the same grade level (so that teaching them -for me- would be doable) and have given them many accomodations so far. They also offer the Barton program, which my almost 12 yo will be starting soon and hopefully my 10 yo as well. It's just the regular teacher where I find I run into the "bed" type instruction. And I could pull my hair out because sometimes I just want to say, "He's almost 12. Do you think we really never thought of using little 'tricks' to help him remember?" KWIM? But, I know she's trying to help us. I am wondering what the school testing will show. They are doing an OT, Speech and Language and psych-ed testing, with behavioral rating. I mainly did this because I felt I needed a paper trail of public school documentation for services they boys may need as they progress into the higher grades, and for the Barton program, which we can't afford. We also have not been able to afford VT and with the seeming 50/50 reviews I read on here about VT, it wasn't worth the gamble for us at this time anyway. Thanks, ladies! :)

My boys have a severe visual-perceptual processing disorder. My oldest is almost 12 and can read CVC words and some words that he has "memorized" by shape and context. We are doing a cyberschool this year. For the most part, I like it. We will be starting Barton soon with oldest boy, hopefully soon with 10yo. The problem I run into is this: because my oldest can not distinguish 'p' 'b' 'q' 'd' from each other, everyone tries to teach him cute little tricks like the 'bed' trick, etc. However, it is NOT that he can't remember those tricks. It is that when he sees the 'b', to his brain the stem might very well be pointing downward. So the tricks don't help. The reason he reads what he can now is that he memorizes shapes and sights of words and uses context. So yes, he reads a lot more than he did a few years ago, but he still reads at a basic 2nd grade level... maybe. If he reads for more than 5 minutes, his brain and eyes become very fatigued and he begins to make lots of mistakes. Especially if "concepts" are mixed, such as: Cam ran and Sal sat in a bag. Too many different endings to process quickly for him. So he's told to slow down. But it's not really these issues- learning cute tricks or slowing down. I sent in the neuropsych reports to the school and they "consider" them, but of course they have to do their own testing, which they are. However, I don't believe typical psych-ed testing will show the v-p processing disorder like the neuropsych eval does. So.... if you've dealt with this or have good ideas about *how* to relay the info, repeatedly if needed, I'd love your ideas. I just don't see how we can be successful if the overarching reason for dss' reading issues are not properly understood. And maybe I'm expecting too much from the school?? (My brother is a special educator and is willing to go to the IEP meeting and review of testing with me, which will probably be in January... so if that can work into any plan you might think of...)

I would try it with rewards tied in. We've done this with success to some extent, but my son is only 11. But as you said, a very small amount on his plate, even if he just allows it to actually be there (which is an issue for my son, just being on the plate), is rewarded. If your son doesn't have an issue with it just "being" there, then I say set up a rewards thing with him to just try a taste. Otherwise, if he's totally against it, I wouldn't bother at that age.

Thank you, Maverick Mom and Geo. I suspect that structure is something that he really needs, but is so difficult for *me* to give him. He does have major meltdowns over things, mainly that he expects something to be a certain way and it isn't. If I could have something structured each day and always the same, it could very well be helpful to him. Before he started celexa, he had pretty severe scrupolosity OCD. He worried constantly that he had done something wrong and "confessed" every little thing, even as little as accidentally breaking a pencil or something similar. The celexa really helped that, however, it almost seemed to throw him over the edge the other way in that now, he doesn't seem to care. I had wondered about possible bipolar because I know that with a history of bipolar, if one of my children takes an SSRI and has adverse reactions to it, it could indicate bipolar. My 16yo dd is bipolar and my 10yo ds did a trial on celexa, but became so much worse and more paranoid on it, that the psych. believes he is probably bipolar as well. :confused: I think I read somewhere that OCD, ODD and bipolar can all overlap. I tried explaining to his doctor (his gp- she communicated with the only psych we have here in town who is VERY hard to get into, so he's willing to consult with her) that ds argues a LOT more than he did before celexa (at least I think I am remembering this realistically... he was such an easy child for so many years), and his gp tried to throw it off on impending adolescence. That adds more confusion to the mix for me, but it seems way above and beyond typical adolescence argumentativeness and spreading of wings, KWIM? The thing I hate about this is, it seems a lot of these issues are parent-reported and being somewhat OCDish myself, it's an area I struggle with and am worried that I don't see it for what it is. He doesn't argue with random adults. For example, in Sunday School or Little League or soccer, he would never dream of arguing with his coaches. However, he does argue with my sister and my mother. That is not par for the course with my other children. He doesn't argue nearly as much with his father, which is interesting to me as well and makes me think some of it has to be how I relate things to him. Though I will say that he feels comfortable telling me most anything, while he doesn't feel comfortable telling his father much. Well, how's that for muddying the waters? :) I think I will do at least one very structured thing each day with him and see how that goes for him. Then maybe we can add a few more if that works well.

I am suspecting that my 11yo son has ODD. He is already dx with OCD and is on Celexa. Also, bipolar disorder runs in our family as well. He is so argumentative that it is almost impossible to tell him anything. ANYTHING. It's almost one of those things where I could say "The grass is green" and he would argue with that! I am currently cyberschooling him and it is working well for us thus far. The school is very accomodating (he has a visual-perceptual processing disorder, trouble handwriting and more...). He is slated for testing with the school, though I am not sure if ODD is something they look for or if that is just addressed on my parent questionnaire. My question is: HOW do you school with this?? I find myself giving in so often! I don't have the energy to argue all day and I think part of my problem is that I need to learn ways to head off the arguments and know when to not engage. This is more of a problem with cyberschool because he HAS to pay attention to what I'm teaching, but he likes to interrupt. A lot. I think part of that is his OCD and part of it is he has trouble paying attention (I'm very flexible with *how* I allow him to school... for example, he can write or draw while listening, etc). But part of it is, he just doesn't want to be told what to do. Any suggestions? Does this even sound like ODD? ETA: Otherwise, he can be very sweet and loving, likes to hug and cuddle, loves to talk about things, etc.

Anyone? =)

Both my boys (ages 10 and 11- going into 4th and 6th grades) had testing done by our homeschool evaluator, per PA laws, using the Peabody. 10yo scored over First grade, 9th month. His General information grade equivalent was 6 grade, 8 month. 11 yo scored overall 2nd grade, 3 month. His general info grade equiv was 5.2. How are the percentile ranks read? I am a bit confused. Are they ranked out of children their age only? For example, 11yo scored these percentiles: 3 in Math, <1 in Reading recognition, Reading comprehension, total reading, spelling. I'm not surprised at the scores, but also not sure how to use the information.