mamabear2three Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 My daughter is 6 and attends a summer day camp that her dad works at. We get free tuition because he works there so she gets to pick several weeks to go and talks about it all year long and is always super excited and whenever my husband sees her around the camp and when I visit on Friday for the end of week thing, she is always participating fully, smiling, excited, having a lot of fun. She talks about the friends she has made and the activities that she has done each day. She went to 2 weeks in a row then had a week off. Starting the first week, she started wetting her pants - at first it was in the evenings at home, the second week it started happening at camp. The week off she had no accidents until Saturday evening. She's back to camp again this week and yesterday had an accident, today had 2 accidents. We thought it might have been the food coloring in what she was getting at camp but we made sure that she is not getting anything with food coloring this week and it obviously hasn't made a difference. She has also had an increasing amount of nightmares - several a week and one both last night and tonight already. Does it seem like she's anxious about summer camp? How do I deal with that when she's seeming to have such a fun time? She talks so enthusiastically about what she's doing and how much fun she's having but I can't figure out why she's having accidents and nightmares. She is a worrier and tends to get stuck on things in her head (she spent weeks afraid to go to bed because she thought the smoke detector would go off - it never went off and nothing that we know of started her worrying, it was just a thought she got in her head and couldn't get over it). UPDATE: So I kept her home Wed. and Thursday and she has had no accidents at all and has been so much more relaxed, but has been unable to tell me what was causing her anxiety about camp. Using strategies the Ped. told me once, I was able to determine that she was not abused physically or otherwise, and that she was not bullied. She did not have any trouble falling asleep, either, and the monster nightmares went away... but did have another nightmare about a fire... Which I thought was unrelated until last night when she had trouble going to bed again so I pulled her into my room to talk privately and asked her what she was worried about. She immediately said "fire!". I was holding her hands and they were not tense so I asked if she was worried about camp, and she tensed up immediately. We talked through it and she still says she has no idea why she's anxious about camp, but I reassured her that she is not going back right now and then she went to bed with no issues or nightmares. But now I'm thinking that the fear of fire, which I could never figure out why she was so worried about, is her way of putting a name and face on her anxiety at camp... is that possible? We go to see the Dr. on Monday, which she is actually looking forward to - her ped. is great and has really worked to develop trust with her over a few medical things (like when she needed stitches). I feel like I need a psychology degree to figure this out! I feel helpless to help her through this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Is there a camper bullying her, even verbally? Or a counselor that she is uncomfortable with? Is she forgetting to go to the restroom because she is so busy? What about infections? Does her urine smell funny? Can you ask her if she has any idea why (without making it sound like she did something bad)? I would definitely be concerned since you are indicating this behavior is not normal for her and just started recently. I agree it seems there is a good possibility it is related to her time at camp, but at that age it may be hard to determine what the cause is. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamabear2three Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 We actually have had this same problem each summer during camp now that I think about it - this is just the first time I've connected it to anxiety about camp - when she was 4 she was young, excitable, accidents happen. When she was 5 we thought she was just over excited, had her tested for a UTI, discussed physical issues that might cause it, decided it was a stresser that we would never fully figure out. When we talk about it she said that she doesn't want to miss anything and that she's afraid of being left behind (they rotate between different activities) if she stops to go to the bathroom. Her urine doesn't smell/look any different than normal, it doesn't hurt her to go. She's always terrified that she will be in trouble for having an accident - I've never disciplined her for having an accident, but tonight I had to promise that she wouldn't be in trouble no matter what before she was willing to talk to me about it. She has been known to have an accident because she took my directions too literally - "you have to clean this up before you can do anything else" or "you have to stay in your room for rest time until I come get you". It takes several repetitions of "you can always go to the bathroom if you need to no matter what and you will never get in trouble for going to the bathroom when you need to". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I wouldn't send her back. Please encourage her to talk to you about anything that might be bothering her, and make other fun plans for the rest of the week. The nightmares and accidents seem to me to be major red flags. :( ETA: I posted before reading your follow-up comments. I'm a little less concerned now, but still think she'd be better off with you right now, as she seems to be experiencing a fair amount of discomfort and anxiety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamabear2three Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 I wouldn't send her back. Please encourage her to talk to you about anything that might be bothering her, and make other fun plans for the rest of the week. The nightmares and accidents seem to me to be major red flags. :( I was kind of feeling like I needed to not send her back, but I can almost guarantee that she'll be devastated (I say almost because she tends to surprise me at the most odd times)... At what point do I say, sorry, you're not going, we'll do fun things at home, regardless of whether she wants to go or not? And how do I make it not come across as a punishment for having accidents? She told me tonight that she felt like she was hopeless because of the accidents! Poor baby :( I quickly reassured her that she is not hopeless and we then discussed the accidents and why she might be having them at camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I might just say something like, "I think you'll be more comfortable here at home with me the rest of this week," and talk about the fun things you have planned. Reassure her that you are not upset about the accidents. Make a firm decision and stick to it, no debate. She might be relieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Explain to her why you think she shouldn't return, its causing her to have accidents and nightmares. Reassure her that it not her fault but these are signs that something about camp is making her uncomfortable and that is how her body is responding, just like she cries when she hurts herself or gets a fever when she's sick. Explain to her that if she wants to attend camp again you all as a family need to work together to figure out what is causing her body to respond that way. Give her examples of things that it may be and come up with ideas to get over those things together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I agree about not sending her back. Frankly, I would be very concerned about her symptoms and would wonder exactly what's going on at that camp that is frightening her so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyof4ks Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Does she worry so much she causes the accidents? My dd went through a period where she was so nervous about something that she made herself do it. The first time was an accident, and then she worried about it so much that it happened over and over at the same event. She had nightmares about it too. She is still my anxious child, but she is doing better controlling it now. Personally I would not force her to stay home, but I would give her the option and make sure your dh gives her that option too since she may be afraid to disappoint him for not coming to 'his' camp. Sometimes diffusing the fear and taking away the 'out of control' feeling can stop an issue, at least it did for dd. Good luck, it is hard raising an anxious child, but it does get better. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 She is so little. I would take the decision out of her hands. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamabear2three Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 I wonder if her mind is so hyped up about how "exciting" camp is, that the reality of whatever is going on is being ignored or hidden to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 If she's otherwise okay it could be she just doesn't take the time to relax and go. Don't they have potty stops for kids this age? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJPPKGFGSC Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I notice that my children tend to have urine accidents when they are constipated. Is there any possibility of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 If it were just accidents I wouldn't take her out because at that age it's still common enough to be having so much fun you forget till its too late to get to the bathroom. But with that and the nightmares there is something else going on. You need to help her figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarinesWife Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Even if she is upset about not returning, whatever is causing her anxiety will ultimately make her feel relief at not having to go again. I'm with the others. Take the decision out of her hands. Maybe try again later .. or just wait to try again next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel Mertz Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Another vote for keeping her home. At the risk of naming an elephant in the room and as a mandated reporter, I need to mention that potty accidents and nightmares can be symptoms of physical, sexual, and/or emotional abuse. I'm not saying this is the case in your situation, but it's important to keep in mind as a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Another vote for keeping her home. At the risk of naming an elephant in the room and as a mandated reporter, I need to mention that potty accidents and nightmares can be symptoms of physical, sexual, and/or emotional abuse. I'm not saying this is the case in your situation, but it's important to keep in mind as a possibility. That was my first thought too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamabear2three Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 ok so we decided to give her the choice but to make it a fair choice - give her equally motivating reasons to stay home (sewing lessons, cooking lessons, play dates, pool, all stuff that she loves doing/has been asking to do at home). Her only concerns were missing today's field trip (Which I told her we could do with coop in the fall) and missing the slide show and video on Friday (which I told her we could either go to that or watch it at home in our own living room - benefit of dad working there). DH said that he felt like I pushed her a little, but she pretty quickly decided that staying home sounded like more fun than camp. When I went into her room to check on her last night she was tossing and turning in her bed... I stood and watched her a second to see if she was awake or asleep and she started peeing in her bed. Unusual for her as well. So I got her up and changed her sheets - she could only remember that she was dreaming about camp and when asked if the dream made her feel good or bad, she said bad but couldn't remember any details. I feel good about her staying home, but I really wish there was a way to figure out what is going on at camp so that I could help her overcome the anxiety... providing it's not some sort of abuse/bullying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I'm so sorry. She has plenty of years for camp when she's old enough to better talk with you about her experiences. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamabear2three Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 If she's otherwise okay it could be she just doesn't take the time to relax and go. Don't they have potty stops for kids this age? They do - and they ask them regularly between activities and they have a buddy system set up for them to go whenever they want. She's talked about being the buddy for other kids to go to the bathroom. I notice that my children tend to have urine accidents when they are constipated. Is there any possibility of that? We've had an issue with that in the past and the first time she started having the accidents, she started making sure she was drinking enough water. There is a possibility of it, I'm sure, but the nightmares are not normal for her and so the combination concerns me more than the possibility of constipation. If it were just accidents I wouldn't take her out because at that age it's still common enough to be having so much fun you forget till its too late to get to the bathroom. But with that and the nightmares there is something else going on. You need to help her figure it out. Exactly. And I do know that anxiety caused the second pee accident at camp yesterday - we had a tornado warning and the kids all had to shelter in place and she told me that when she had the second accident, she was worried about another tornado warning. (She then asked me what a tornado was, so it's not the tornado that worried her, just the stress of sheltering in place) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 DH said that he felt like I pushed her a little, but she pretty quickly decided that staying home sounded like more fun than camp. Pushing her is not a bad thing. She's 6, and it was likely encouraging to her to pretend she could make the choice. Husbands can forget just how little 6 really is, and of course he's more likely to want her to choose *his* camp. My son went to a highly respected local camp when he was 8. He felt very unsafe, and to this day (he's 15 now), he still occasionally will mention how grateful he was that we pulled him out midweek. It was not an easy decision for me because I wanted him to like it, and there was some pressure for me to have him finish out the week. It had a big impact on his knowing that he could trust me to protect him. Have a FUN time with your dd, doing the special things you've planned!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 They do - and they ask them regularly between activities and they have a buddy system set up for them to go whenever they want. She's talked about being the buddy for other kids to go to the bathroom. We've had an issue with that in the past and the first time she started having the accidents, she started making sure she was drinking enough water. There is a possibility of it, I'm sure, but the nightmares are not normal for her and so the combination concerns me more than the possibility of constipation. Exactly. And I do know that anxiety caused the second pee accident at camp yesterday - we had a tornado warning and the kids all had to shelter in place and she told me that when she had the second accident, she was worried about another tornado warning. (She then asked me what a tornado was, so it's not the tornado that worried her, just the stress of sheltering in place) That makes total sense, then. You said she was scared of the possibility of the smoke alarm at home--and perseverated a bit on it. Then she mentioned being "left behind" if she went to the potty at camp. If they are sending kids with a same-age buddy to the bathroom, I'm sure that could be provoking anxiety as well. (I think it's a dumb idea, to be honest.) And THEN the whole tornado thing. So it sounds like a security/feeling safe issue to me. That can cause anxiety, for sure! I think you made the right decision. Your hubby is probably disappointed that she isn't going, but he'll get over it. I can relate a little bit; dh was the chaplain for a private school when ds was in K at that school. Dh LOVED having ds there, and was SO disappointed when we moved him to another educational setting. He still wishes it had worked out. Your dd has lots of time to go to camp. Better that she end on a good note and be happy about returning next year or the year after, than continue to be in a place that makes her anxious. ((mamabear2three and dd!)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I would take your dd to the pediatrician. What she is experiencing is out of the norm for her, and that is a warning sign. I am glad you are keeping her home. Frankly, I would not have given her a choice. I would also inform the camp and ask them to investigate what is going on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I would encourage a visit to the pediatrician, also. And a phone call to the camp, to make sure they are aware of why she's home - and so they can investigate. Hoping that she's back to normal quickly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I'm glad she's home. I think you did absolutely the right thing to push the home side. She's still so little. My youngest is 6--this puts things in perspective. Is she your oldest? My oldest, no matter how much I'm aware of it, remains 2 years older than her age in my head. She sounds like a sensitive, imaginative, mature for her age people pleaser who is also anxiety prone (just like my oldest.) I think with all the hype about the camp in your family it is quite possible that she felt she didn't have a choice but to like it. And she was doing her best to like it, which quite possibly included pushing any negatives out of her mind. I would seriously consider play therapy for her, because if it wasn't just a generalized camp anxiety but specific incidents that affected her, you'd want to know so that you can help her. Hugs to you and your sweet child. I hope she has a blast at home and starts opening up to you about what happened. Kudos to you for being aware of her needs. It is so easy to fall into the trap of "Camp is great, you have fun there, finish the week!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I would take your dd to the pediatrician. What she is experiencing is out of the norm for her, and that is a warning sign. I am glad you are keeping her home. Frankly, I would not have given her a choice. I would also inform the camp and ask them to investigate what is going on there. I agree with the ped. Anything physical can be ruled out and you can start the process if having a trained professional (rather than a parent) attempt to decipher what is going on. I might hesitate about calling the camp now. If there is a physical cause, the camp could feel unjustly maligned. Worst scenario, if there has been some kind of abuse, you might want to be sure of details first. It's not just about 'surprising' the camp, but a vague call can leave everyone under suspicion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamabear2three Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 DH talked to her counselor this morning to see if she noticed anything unusual, which she hadn't. She said the incident where my daughter described being left, a counselor had stayed behind with her while her group moved on. I might take her to the ped's just to be sure it's not an infection or something else, and that would also give me the ped's suggestions for what to do next. Thanks for the suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Whatever you decide to do re: camp, please go to the doctor to get her checked out for any physical issue. I have a young friend who started having accidents at the age of 8, and her parents at first chalked it up to stress due to a pet dying. After a few weeks of this they brought her in to the doctor to have her tested for a bladder infection, and they were lucky they did because the doctor had her rushed to the hospital. At that point, she wasn't far from entering a diabetic coma, and it took several days to get her blood sugar regulated. Obviously, that's the long-shot outcome, but a bladder infection is still pretty likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamabear2three Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 I made an appointment for her... we went through this before with lots of accidents and she tested negative for infection, so I have my doubts but I'll make sure and not just assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamabear2three Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 double post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljpisme Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I agree that maybe a trip to the pediatrician would be a good idea to rule out any physical issues. Does your daughter have any other activities in her life that are similar to camp? Meaning, does she do any activities that involve large groups of kids (with potentially loud and chaotic atmospheres), multiple structured activities and being separate from you? Is it a possibility that is it something about the general atmosphere about camp that makes her feel uncomfortable/unsafe? I don't necessarily think this has to be a sign of abuse (although you are probably right to ask if anything may have triggered her fear). I could have written your post after my own daughter's summer camp experience last summer. For her, she has a really tough time with large groups of kids and feels very unsafe around them primarily because they are "unpredictable". Feeling "unsafe" is something she really struggles with in general (and is getting help for via counseling). She has been going to school since she was 3 (she's 8 now) and it has been a struggle for her to deal with this since day 1 (despite everything we've tried to help). I am so glad we will be starting homeschooling this fall! Not saying this is the case with your daughter, but I figured I would share my experience with my DD to see if that helps at all. Good luck :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamabear2three Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 Does your daughter have any other activities in her life that are similar to camp? Meaning, does she do any activities that involve large groups of kids (with potentially loud and chaotic atmospheres), multiple structured activities and being separate from you? Is it a possibility that is it something about the general atmosphere about camp that makes her feel uncomfortable/unsafe? I don't necessarily think this has to be a sign of abuse (although you are probably right to ask if anything may have triggered her fear). Camp is the only activity this involved in her life - she did coop this past school year and Sunday school but both of those were smaller classes that did not change around any. I will say that she has been able to describe exactly how the social structure works at camp - the rules for each thing, how they move from one activity to the next, who the counselors are and the difference between the groups, and how there is one girl who is the afternoon kid, who doesn't come for mornings. I wonder if it's just too much stress on the social aspect - her feeling like she has to fit in when the social structure is big and complicated (compared to the rest of her life). She reads really well and has told me that she doesn't want other kids at Church to know she can read because they can't read as well as she can and she doesn't want them to feel badly. She's also had other conversations with me about "fitting in" to the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamabear2three Posted July 18, 2014 Author Share Posted July 18, 2014 See update in original post - Anyone with a psychology degree who can give me tips on how to talk to her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I think your update was interesting. When my dd was about this age we watched a documentary on floods. We live within a mile or 2 of the Mississippi River. Suddenly she was scared at night and had a hard time sleeping. She was nervous about our house sweeping away at night. No mind that it's straight up from the river to our neighborhood! Some kids just tend to be more anxious than others and I think with my own kid if I work too hard to find a real environmental reason she's anxious, I can just make her more anxious. I do very methodically introduce her to new environments and vet new activities and social groups carefully. This kid is now 10 and is having stomach aches now when she gets nervous about something even when she can't necessarily vocalize exactly what it is. Keeping her talking and giving her strategies to deal with it has been important, but it's certainly an ongoing project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Besides the tornado sheltering did they have a fire drill? When I taught kindergarten I was careful how I talked about fire drills. At that age it can feel like "this is what you do when this happens" instead of "if this happens." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Thank you for the update -- I'm glad you stopped sending her to camp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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