Sports scholarships

[flyingiguana]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/sports/10scholarships.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

" Excluding the glamour sports of football and basketball, the average N.C.A.A. athletic scholarship is nowhere near a full ride, amounting to $8,707. In sports like baseball or track and field, the number is routinely as low as $2,000. Even when football and basketball are included, the average is $10,409. Tuition and room and board for N.C.A.A. institutions often cost between $20,000 and $50,000 a year.

 

“People run themselves ragged to play on three teams at once so they could always reach the next level,†said Margaret Barry of Laurel, Md., whose daughter is a scholarship swimmer at the University of Delaware. “They’re going to be disappointed when they learn that if they’re very lucky, they will get a scholarship worth 15 percent of the $40,000 college bill. What’s that? $6,000?†"

[Sunshine State Sue]

I have no idea how accurate this site it, but I'll share it anyway...

 

How many College athletic scholarships are available?

 

Ds will be playing NCAA Division 2 basketball.  He definitely does not have a full ride.  His athletic and academic scholarships will cover tuition and fees his freshman year.  Some alumni donated money for additional basketball scholarships outside NCAA.  I wonder how often that happens.

[plansrme]

I know multiple parents whose kids are or are hoping to compete in college in gymnastics, swimming and baseball, and not one of them has ever indicated that they are in it for the scholarship.  Every parent I know who has a kid in one of these sports knows that, financially, they're better of--way better off--planting the kid on the couch and socking the money into a 529 plan.  So while the NYT article is awfully dramatic, my experience is that it does not reflect the expectations of the majority of sports parents.  On the other hand, I do know kids whose sport is getting them to colleges they either could not afford or would not have gotten into without the scholarship or the hook that the sport provided.  The kids and the parents never counted on that, but when the hook became useful or the money was offered, it was welcome.

 

It is incredibly difficult to get a spot on a college team's roster, and getting that spot, regardless of whether there is money is attached, is an accomplishment that deserves to be valued regardless of whether there is money attached. 

[teachermom2834]

My ds is pursuing being recruited to play his sport and it is challenging. We are not chasing scholarship money. There are other reasons he wants to participate and there are often benefits outside of money (academic support, etc). Even if he gets athletic money that is only granted one year at a time so we would never bank on that when making a decision.

 

I think the most likely scenario for my ds is that his sport is a hook to get admitted someplace he might not have as a non-athlete. Possibly his sport helps him get admitted someplace that offers great financial aid in general. There are lots of sides of this.

 

I know people on the outside may think we are foolish but we are not delusional. Most parents I know understand how it works by the time the kids are high school age.

[flyingiguana]

I've run into a number of parents who seem to think an athletic scholarship is going to make college affordable -- even when their kids are in high school and seeing the actual numbers of kids who get these offers.

 

It just sounds like a lot of pressure to put on a kid.  Even if it were true that there were a lot of scholarships out there.

 

I knew one kid who was a reasonably good soccer player who was just devastated his senior year when he didn't even make the varsity team.  He'd been on the varsity team his first 3 years of high school, but a new coach came in.  His parents had invested a huge chunk of time, his childhood, and money into the idea that a soccer scholarship was going to pay for his college.  And there he was without even the opportunity to try in the one year that mattered.  There were a lot of friends of his who were also very bitter about this -- and parents of friends.

 

It all seemed a little ridiculous.  I felt sorry for him not being able to play on the varsity team, but I doubt it had all that much effect on the amount of financial aid he got.  He was a reasonably bright kid otherwise, and that probably got him more than he lost.

 

Many schools give automatic awards for certain ACT/SAT cut off scores.  If parents are intent on getting money for college, that seems like a much better gamble to strive for than an uncertain athletic scholarship that likely won't be anywhere near as much as the automatic merit awards. 

 

We've also had a lot better luck getting music/arts scholarships in our family.  In our family alone, we've gotten more offers of those than all the kids I know who got athletic scholarships.

 

I wonder if NCAA rules keep the athletic scholarships more competitive?  Can a school sink whatever it wants into arts and merit scholarships (if they have the funds), but there are maybe external limits on the athletic scholarships?  I obviously know nothing about this -- just wondering.  (Wondering if there have to be limits at the schools that aren't Division I, for example)

 

I do know that athletic extracurriculars not only CAN'T count when a non-Division I school is giving out academic merit scholarships, the interview committees are not even allowed to ask or hear about them.  So a kid who puts a lot of energy into sports in high school may be at a disadvantage when it comes to competing for plain old merit scholarships.  It will look like they don't have a lot of extracurriculars. 

[flyingiguana]

As in the rest of high school life -- you do the sport because you love it, not because you think it will get you anything.

[annabanana1992]

Our son hopes to swim in college, and we have no delusions about getting money for it.  We told his coach in 8th grade that the return on investment for swimming was our son enjoying what he was doing and growing as a person.   We are hopeful that swimming will be a hook, but if it isn't, then so be it.

[shawthorne44]

The other problem with Athletic Scholarships is that you can lose them for things outside your control.  DH had academic scholarship offers that were almost full-ride at three colleges.  Academic tuition-only at Yale and Harvard (which would still mean huge debt).  Full-ride soccer scholarship to UT.  Several tippy-top full ride Football offers contingent on him reaching a certain height (Didn't happen)  He took the UT scholarship.  He was deliberately injured during a game his freshman year.  No more scholarship.  He would have been much better off taking one of the academic almost full-rides at a lesser college. Getting the minimum GPA is within your control.  

[Lanny]

When DD was in Pre School and then in K4, K5 and First grade, in a private ($$$$$) brick and mortar school here, the mother of her best friend (a Canadian) was a Counselor in the brick and mortar school. I remember her telling me about a boy who was a Golfer. He had been offered scholarships totaling approximately USD$150K in 2 schools. That was about 8 years ago, so I don't remember the exact details and whether or not that was enough to be "full ride".  Also, I met a woman on a beach in Venezuela in 1991 who had attended the University of Maryland on a Volleyball scholarship. Again, I'm not sure if that was "full ride" or not.  The financial aid helps...

[snowbeltmom]

I think many parents don't realize that not only is the scholarship money award typically not very large, but some schools don't award any athletic scholarships at all.  The Ivy League schools, even though they are Division I, do not award any athletic (or academic for that matter) scholarships.  None of the Div III schools, such as MIT, Williams, JHU, Amherst, etc. awards any athletic scholarships either.

[LMV]

Our oldest daughter did end up with a full athletic scholarship to a top university.  They only offer athletic merit aid so getting additional, or any, academic money there was not, and will not be, possible.  She did have some outside scholarships (including national merit) for her first year and she has renewed her athletic scholarship for her sophomore  year.  So far things are going well.  She had a good academic and athletic freshman year.  She is making good connections, looking forward to her team getting further in the NCAA tournament this year, and generally in agreement that she picked a school which was a good fit.  We're thrilled she is thriving and hope that will continue.  

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/sports/10scholarships.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

" Excluding the glamour sports of football and basketball, the average N.C.A.A. athletic scholarship is nowhere near a full ride, amounting to $8,707. In sports like baseball or track and field, the number is routinely as low as $2,000. Even when football and basketball are included, the average is $10,409. Tuition and room and board for N.C.A.A. institutions often cost between $20,000 and $50,000 a year.

“People run themselves ragged to play on three teams at once so they could always reach the next level,†said Margaret Barry of Laurel, Md., whose daughter is a scholarship swimmer at the University of Delaware. “They’re going to be disappointed when they learn that if they’re very lucky, they will get a scholarship worth 15 percent of the $40,000 college bill. What’s that? $6,000?†"

 

 

Our son hopes to swim in college, and we have no delusions about getting money for it.  We told his coach in 8th grade that the return on investment for swimming was our son enjoying what he was doing and growing as a person.   We are hopeful that swimming will be a hook, but if it isn't, then so be it.

 

Our oldest two have fully funded college funds. Our younger daughters have college funds in process which should be fully funded before they reach college age.  Although we have one child who is currently playing a D1 sport on an athletic scholarship (and therefore not touching her college fund), another daughter who is a L10 gymnast who hopes to compete in college, and a four year old who might have been born with fins we have never sacrificed, and will never sacrifice, college saving for funding club sports.  We have never considered sports participation an investment for college (because, if you really think about it, you probably invested enough in that sports participation to fund college with that money) but something that is important to our children, we are in a position to support financially, and something we will support because we love them.

 

The other problem with Athletic Scholarships is that you can lose them for things outside your control.  DH had academic scholarship offers that were almost full-ride at three colleges.  Academic tuition-only at Yale and Harvard (which would still mean huge debt).  Full-ride soccer scholarship to UT.  Several tippy-top full ride Football offers contingent on him reaching a certain height (Didn't happen)  He took the UT scholarship.  He was deliberately injured during a game his freshman year.  No more scholarship.  He would have been much better off taking one of the academic almost full-rides at a lesser college. Getting the minimum GPA is within your control.  

 

Just to clarify, Ivys can not offer scholarships (academic or athletic) all aid must be need based. You do bring up a good point that generally scholarships are for a year at a time and are renewable. Having said that,  many schools will medically retire and then provide continued financial support in the case of injury.  This allows them to replace the player in terms of scholarship (because NCAA limits how many scholarshipped athletes you can have) but also allows them to do the right thing for the injured athlete.  Obviously not all schools do this or are in a position to do this but it is a reasonable thing for student athletes to ask about on official visits.

[plansrme]

What I am observing on this thread is that the parents who actually have kids in sports know the score; the parents of kids not in sports, however, think the sports parents are delusional.

 

 

 

 

[LMV]

What I am observing on this thread is that the parents who actually have kids in sports know the score; the parents of kids not in sports, however, think the sports parents are delusional.

 

You also have a daughter who is a gymnast right?  Gymnastics gets so much bad press that I definitely run into the sentiment that I'm an irresponsible mom from acquaintances.  I just take a deep breath and smile because I know that gymnastics is her sport.  It is not the sport I would have picked for her but overall it has been a positive experience for her. 

 

To be fair, I have met some delusional sports parents.  We have a (sometimes friendly) acquaintance who has invested thousands and thousands of dollars in private coaching time for her daughters.  She and her husband have sacrificed a lot for their kids' softball at the expense of college funds, paying the mortgage, focus on academics etc.  They have also done a lot of fundraising (some not in compliance with NCAA rules) and a lot of begging for funding from anyone and everyone.  Ultimately both kids ended up going the junior college route and haven't made the transition to a four year school for various reasons.  

[Χά�ων]

DS picked a sport that is not, to the best of my knowledge, offered at any university. I have no delusions about a scholarship for him based on his sport. Plus with his health the reality of being a competitive athlete in college may not be reality. I am always amazed by the talk of athletic scholarships. No matter if DS is one of the top athletes in his sport, there is nothing for college. :)

[shawthorne44]

Our oldest daughter did end up with a full athletic scholarship to a top university.  They only offer athletic merit aid so getting additional, or any, academic money there was not, and will not be, possible.  She did have some outside scholarships (including national merit) for her first year and she has renewed her athletic scholarship for her sophomore  year.  So far things are going well.  She had a good academic and athletic freshman year.  She is making good connections, looking forward to her team getting further in the NCAA tournament this year, and generally in agreement that she picked a school which was a good fit.  We're thrilled she is thriving and hope that will continue.  

 

 

 

 

Our oldest two have fully funded college funds. Our younger daughters have college funds in process which should be fully funded before they reach college age.  Although we have one child who is currently playing a D1 sport on an athletic scholarship (and therefore not touching her college fund), another daughter who is a L10 gymnast who hopes to compete in college, and a four year old who might have been born with fins we have never sacrificed, and will never sacrifice, college saving for funding club sports.  We have never considered sports participation an investment for college (because if you really think about it if you probably invested enough in that sports participation to fund college with that money) but something that is important to our children, we are in a position to support financially, and something we will support because we love them.

 

 

Just to clarify, Ivys can not offer scholarships (academic or athletic) all aid must be need based. You do bring up a good point that generally scholarships are for a year at a time and are renewable. Having said that,  many schools will medically retire and then provide continued financial support in the case of injury.  This allows them to replace the player in terms of scholarship (because NCAA limits how many scholar shipped athletes you can have) but also allows them to do the right thing for the injured athlete.  Obviously not all schools do this or are in a position to do this but it is a reasonable thing for student athletes to ask about on official visits.

 

You might be right that it was need-based.  It definitely wasn't athletic.  One of them, Yale I think, had also offered room and board.  But when he flew up for the visit (they paid) an extremely attractive black girl met him at the airport.  Turns out Yale was one of the apps where he'd left his race blank, and they assumed based on his school that he was black.  So the room and board was paid for him to a black fraternity.  But, when they met him that was retracted and they lost interest in him attending at all. 

 

 

[Caroline]

What I am observing on this thread is that the parents who actually have kids in sports know the score; the parents of kids not in sports, however, think the sports parents are delusional.

 

It's what I have observed in real life, too.

[shawthorne44]

Maybe it is how people justify the expense to themselves.  Like the co-worker who spends 3K/yr in soccer Premier League fees.  She says it is for college scholarships.  I suspect it is that she really doesn't want to say No to her kid. 

[Caroline]

Maybe it is how people justify the expense to themselves. Like the co-worker who spends 3K/yr in soccer Premier League fees. She says it is for college scholarships. I suspect it is that she really doesn't want to say No to her kid.

I pay that kind of money for soccer. It isn't because I can't say no to my kid.

[Pawz4me]

I think most parents with kids in sports know the score.  But all of them?  No.  Not at all.  I could give several examples, but the worst I know is a family who sold their house at the bottom of the market a few years ago so they could move to another school district so their youngest DD could play on a better high school softball team.  They really thought that was going to pay off in the long run.  I kind of lost track with them after they moved, but I have my doubts that they recouped even a small fraction of what they lost on their house.

 

OTOH, my nephew is somewhat of a success story.  He was offered a smallish baseball scholarship by a Division 1 school.  After proving his worth during their first baseball season, the school increased his scholarship substantially.  He did well for them, got a usable degree, got drafted and is working his way up in the minor leagues. :)  BIL and SIL still had to pay quite a bit out of pocket to cover his college, but I think the scholarship money more than made up for what they'd spent on his sports expenses over the years.

[plansrme]

Maybe it is how people justify the expense to themselves.  Like the co-worker who spends 3K/yr in soccer Premier League fees.  She says it is for college scholarships.  I suspect it is that she really doesn't want to say No to her kid. 

 

Or maybe it is how she justifies it to other parents who judge her harshly for spending her money the way she wants to spend her time and money, just because they make different choices for their time and money.  

 

I have three athletes in expensive and time-consuming sports:  gymnastics, swimming and travel baseball.  I can not tell you how many snotty little comments we have heard over the years from people who make different choices for their kids, their time and their budgets.  If you make different choices for your family, fine!  But don't assume I make my choices because I am unaware of the realities of the situation and that you are just the one to enlighten me.

 

(Global "you" here, not anyone on this thread, except for the nitwit reporter who wrote the original article.  Which was just stupid.)

[shawthorne44]

Well, she volunteered right away that it was the reason.  I have no clue what is reasonable expense for soccer, so I don't think my face showed any disapproval.  .  I wasn't feeling any.  Maybe she was preemptively defensive because others had disapproved.  Although, I admit I do think a little less of her for faulty reasoning.  If she'd said, "My son is in a Premier League, and he really enjoys it.  The kids there are so (insert good adjective)" I'd think that was cool and I'd be eager to learn more.  That was early fall, and this spring I asked where he was playing.  I assumed it would be some university.  No college wanted him for soccer.  Instead he is staying home and playing soccer as a gap year.  

[Grantmom]

 

 

I do know that athletic extracurriculars not only CAN'T count when a non-Division I school is giving out academic merit scholarships, the interview committees are not even allowed to ask or hear about them.  So a kid who puts a lot of energy into sports in high school may be at a disadvantage when it comes to competing for plain old merit scholarships.  It will look like they don't have a lot of extracurriculars. 

 

 

Is this really true for all non-Division 1 schools?  That is crazy.  What about being well-rounded and having a wide and varied span of interests?  To me that is discriminatory.  If a kid is passionate about something and puts their heart and soul into it, whether it is soccer or cello, what is the difference between the two?  Do you mean that two students being compared, one who spent many hours playing soccer and one who spent many hours playing cello, that for the soccer player, it would not be allowed to even be discussed?  That seems just absolutely crazy to me.

[Grantmom]

My perspective is that there are no guarantees in life.  You work hard at what you love, you choose to spend your time in ways that make your life happy and fill you with joy.  Yes, it helps to have a plan, to make choices that are based in reality and in what is likely to be, but no one can really know what the future holds.

 

 

[Lolly]

Delusional parents? yep, they are out there, but not usually over sports scholarship money. One set I know fully expects their kid to be in the Olympics. (eyeroll) They don't expect a full ride to college, however. I find that interesting. Dd20b was offered practically a full ride swim scholarship to a division 2 school (her second choice). We were quite surprised. It was academic and athletic combined. She instead decided on a division 3 with only academic merit. Knowing kids who went to the div 2 school on athletic scholarships in the past, we weren't disappointed in her choice at all. They tended to give larger scholarships to freshmen and gradually lessen the amount. One of their best tennis players had his scholarship completely taken away his senior year. They figured it was his last year, so he would just pay so he didn't have to change schools. They were wrong. Basically, we didn't trust them. Plus, the div 3 school had a much higher placement rate for graduate school for kids in her major.

[wintermom]

There are  a fair number of elite Canadian young athletes who head to the US on sport scholarships. I don't know how much the scholarships actually cover, but just the opportunity to compete/participate is a huge draw. There are just so many more athletic opportunities at US colleges than in Canada, and there is a lot more competition available. Not to mention the weather is a lot better for most outdoor sports. ;)  The high tuition costs of US colleges, adding on international student fees, would make it very tough for the average family to afford this if it weren't for some financial help.

 

So thanks, southern neighbours, we appreciate the chance to mix and mingle! 

[ZooRho]

Our son hopes to swim in college, and we have no delusions about getting money for it.  We told his coach in 8th grade that the return on investment for swimming was our son enjoying what he was doing and growing as a person.   We are hopeful that swimming will be a hook, but if it isn't, then so be it.

I have a swimmer too. He is swimming in College.  He did get recruited by one school, and probably could have possibly had more if he hadn't quit his junior year.  

 

He did find a great college that has a great team and good coaches.  He is not getting any money, but I do know that swimming helped with him getting accepted into the colleges.  He did have the grades and SAT scores to get in but it smoothed the way especially as a hser.

 

He is loving the swimming, he is doing great. It hopefully will also help him to keep focused on school too.  

 

My oldest also was in a college sport , he played soccer.  He did get a bit of money not much though.

 

They both got some great academic money from

their college.

[ZooRho]

What I am observing on this thread is that the parents who actually have kids in sports know the score; the parents of kids not in sports, however, think the sports parents are delusional.

I think this could be true, we knew that there were few $$s for athletic scholarships.   

 

we knew it could be a possibility but not full rides, but we did sports to keep our boys busy and active.

[Lolly]

Dd is finding that being on a sports team has other benefits at college. It gave her a built in group from even before she got to the school. Her coach straightened out a mess that could have gotten ugly over her promised merit aid/scholarships. In fact, the guy in charge in the office is not even working there anymore... (And shouldn't be!!!) If the kids go to him when they start having trouble in a class, he lines up a tutor for them immediately (for free). Definitely some nice perks to have!

[Dmmetler]

What I've noticed is that at age 4-10 or so, a lot or parents seem to think that their daughter is going to go to college on a cheer scholarship. By the time the girls get to high school, reality has set in. Most of the girls who do rec cheer aren't going to make even a competitive high school team, and most of the girls who make high school cheer won't make college teams. And, honestly, most who do are those who spent those years before high school doing gymnastics rather than cheer, and who wanted something with a less intense training schedule than team gymnastics in high school. Of those, only a handful of schools have the funds (usually BIG football schools) to fund cheer teams even to the point of paying for the uniforms/travel for the team to compete (University of Alabama's cheer team had to pay for their own National Champions rings because the athletic boosters didn't have funds allocated for it), and if there's scholarship money, it's usually going to go to men, not women.

 

DD has a coach who was one of my former students in an urban school, who was seen by a local cheer coach turning flips on the playground, given a scholarship to train at their gym, and eventually did get a cheer scholarship (and had a package that was a full ride overall). I'm guessing that the fact that he was a poor kid from the wrong side of the tracks who was as smart as a whip and did well in high school played into it fully as much as that he's a skilled tumbler and is big enough and strong enough to be a good base.

[bettyandbob]

What I am observing on this thread is that the parents who actually have kids in sports know the score; the parents of kids not in sports, however, think the sports parents are delusional.

 

My dc are not athletic scholarship material. However, I have spent a lot of time in the swimming world. I have definitely met delusional parents. Perhaps people here are not delusional, but there are delusional people out there. I've had parents flat out tell me that there 14 yo was for sure going to get a scholarship to a D1 program. I actually don't understand not understanding there's not that much money out there (swimming is not a revenue sport) and not being look at your child's results at meets and see that while they are fantastic, look at the numbers of kids performing at that level across the country.

 

One pushy mom in summer swim told me of her child's impending scholarship when he was entering high school. I did not ask for this information she just told me. The young man was very good. BUT mom was not tall (5'5") dad was not tall (maybe 5'9")--genetics make a difference and coaches do take overall bodytype into consideration when recruiting. The young man was a top performer locally. He was never recruited. He did not swim anywhere in college. The sad thing is he loved baseball more than swimming. His mom made him quit baseball in middle school to focus all his time on swimming. She probably spent more money on the club swimming program he was in than if he had done scaled back swimming and continued with baseball. Basically, her delusions took away other opportunities he had. He was/is a great athlete. He was never going to be a D1 college athlete in either sport.

 

I just agreed to teach a stroke and turn class this fall. I am sure I will more than one parent who has an overestimate of what swimming will provide their child. I just smile and continue encouraging the child.

[Χά�ων]

Delusional parents? yep, they are out there, but not usually over sports scholarship money. One set I know fully expects their kid to be in the Olympics. (eyeroll) They don't expect a full ride to college, however. I find that interesting. Dd20b was offered practically a full ride swim scholarship to a division 2 school (her second choice). We were quite surprised. It was academic and athletic combined. She instead decided on a division 3 with only academic merit. Knowing kids who went to the div 2 school on athletic scholarships in the past, we weren't disappointed in her choice at all. They tended to give larger scholarships to freshmen and gradually lessen the amount. One of their best tennis players had his scholarship completely taken away his senior year. They figured it was his last year, so he would just pay so he didn't have to change schools. They were wrong. Basically, we didn't trust them. Plus, the div 3 school had a much higher placement rate for graduate school for kids in her major.

I have met these types. My DS has too many health problems to ever hit that level and I went in and was flat out honest that he was there for fun and to enjoy himself. He wanted to train like a top athlete and to workout all the time. What was the worst that could happen? He is in good shape? The other kids were there because the parents read an article about how to ensure their child was the top athlete blah blah blah and put their kids in the training facility for conditioning. I have wrote a bit in the past about the hell he endured before we left that facility and moved to another facility that costs significantly more and is an hour away with no traffic. The kids were hell but nothing compared to the parents. The parents were convinced their child was going to the Olympics or pro. They were terrible. The behavior was horrendous. 

 

I did not and do not get why. I am the type of person who wants to understand the reasons behind their behavior. It is not like DS was a threat. Yeah, he picked up the drills fast. Yeah his endurance is great. Yeah, he is huge, nearly a foot taller than the same age child in the family that was the worst of the bunch. But, really, my son who was unable to walk up stairs a few years ago, he is having to relearn how to run. He is ill, his body is failing him. The chances of him being competitive against healthy, able bodied peers who have the sole advantage of never having to relearn the basics of walking and running, is very very slim. I guess, my signing my son up for the open kids conditioning class was just too much. It was not as though he was bringing everyone else down. He kept up and in some cases was ahead in several areas, but not to a point where he was a threat to anyone's place on a team or standings, it was just something he mastered faster, within a few weeks the others kids would almost always catch up. And really, they were 8 at the time. Not one of these sports where a sports where the rankings or skill level of the athlete at age 8 actually matters. 

 

In short: some people are just insane and it has little to do with what activity their child is involved with.

[Caroline]

 

 

In short: some people are just insane and it has little to do with what activity their child is involved with.

 

You can say that again!