California advancing/retaining - choosing grade level??

[hollyh]

Hi.  I'm processing options for the future here.  I have boy/girl twins who have July birthdays.  I had assumed I would just sent them to Kinder this next year as they will be 5 before Sept 1st.  However, there is also an option in CA for Transitional Kinder for June-Dec bdays (basically 2 years of Kinder).  If I just had my dd., I may let her go on to regular K.  However, I have a cute little boy who won't even hold a pencil yet.  If I put them in Trans. Kinder, they will graduate at 18, turning 19 before college.

 

I do not want this to be a conversation about redshirting- I know it is a hot- button topic.  

Separating the twins by official grade level is not an option. 

I already know that I can teach them at their individual level (and will).  I DO need to choose a grade level as I am homeschooling through a public charter. The charter school said there is not an option to retain if I choose to put them in regular kinder now (retention for any reason is not allowed with the charter school at any point) which is leading me to want to have them do the Trans. Kinder so that my options may be a bit more open.

 

So, now to my question: how hard would it be to bump them UP a grade if i decide a few years from now that it is not the best decision to do the Trans. Kinder?  Frankly I feel that it is hard to make this decision about little 4 yos. and would like more time to get to know my little ones and their abilities/maturity levels.  Has anyone successfully bumped their kids up using a charter?  Or would I need to change charter schools? Could I do it if I was HSing on my own?  What about if I did the charter school through 7th, but then wanted them to skip official 8th and go straight into a Public High School? Does anyone know how this would work?  Officially they are public school students b/c of the charter, so do those records matter when going to High School?  Anyone know or have experience?

 

Thanks!!

[EKS]

My experience with the public schools here is that it is *far* easier to retain than it is to accelerate. 

[Crimson Wife]

 

I already know that I can teach them at their individual level (and will).  I DO need to choose a grade level as I am homeschooling through a public charter. The charter school said there is not an option to retain if I choose to put them in regular kinder now (retention for any reason is not allowed with the charter school at any point) which is leading me to want to have them do the Trans. Kinder so that my options may be a bit more open.

 

That is untrue. My November birthday DS repeated K through a public charter program with no problem. TK did not exist back then so the only option to get the stipend for the first year of K was to enroll him at 4-turning-5. All I had to do at the end of the first year to have him officially repeat K was to have the principal sign off on the request, which he did without hesitation.

 

I wish that I had done it early with my October birthday oldest girl. I tried to have her grade changed last year and the then-principal of the school denied the request. He has since switched to another role at the charter and I talked to our assigned teacher this morning about re-submitting a request to the new principal. Repeating a middle school grade is apparently a LOT harder to get approval for than repeating K. I just didn't anticipate when she was younger the issues we would be dealing with as a 'tween.

[jnaj]

Are they going to be taking classes at the charter? If your are just homeschooling I would go ahead and just do K. If they are going to be going to the charter school for a day or two a week then I would just decide based on how you feel they would do. There is no formal testing here in CA until 3rd grade, so you have a few years before it would really "matter." And that is if you choose to continue with the charter school- you could always register as a private school (I recently moved here, so I can't remember what it is you file- PSA?) or register WITH another private school, and testing is up to you that way.

[EndOfOrdinary]

In my experience with the PS school system, they will not consider twins together.  Each child is considered a separate child.  So when looking into retention/acceleration, the issue becomes a lottery.  One kid might get it, the other might not.  It is a gamble.  As posted above, retention is the easiest.  Schools are perfectly happy in this test centered day and age to allow a kid to stay in a grade and get more time with testing materials.  Jumping a kid ahead means loosing a full year of FTE and the potential to take a kid from great testing, into just average testing.  That is not looked at too favorably.

 

I would say that you should consider the idea of being able to rework their grade level to be something which is close to off the table in the future unless there is really a drastic reason.

[kiana]

Psychologically, I think it's a lot easier to be the smart kid who got bumped up a grade and/or graduated high school after 11th grade than to be the kid who got retained at a later age.

[Ohdanigirl]

Your best and easiest option here would be to homeschool the first year on your own. This way you would be able to school them according to their strengths but not be forced to choose a grade. Since you are in Ca, and for heir age, you will not have to file the private school affidavit. Doing this will give you a year to decide. Next year you can join the charter school, and declare the grade you want then.

 

Once you enroll them in any public school and declare a grade, that s their grade. Changing schools does not change this. You would have to change districts, or get permission from the school to change the grade. Also if you wait to enroll your kids a few years down the road, the school may choose their grade by birthdate, which is what most schools in Ca will do. Ask me how I know....

 

HTH

[Ellie]

Hi.  I'm processing options for the future here.  I have boy/girl twins who have July birthdays.  I had assumed I would just sent them to Kinder this next year as they will be 5 before Sept 1st.  However, there is also an option in CA for Transitional Kinder for June-Dec bdays (basically 2 years of Kinder).  If I just had my dd., I may let her go on to regular K.  However, I have a cute little boy who won't even hold a pencil yet.  If I put them in Trans. Kinder, they will graduate at 18, turning 19 before college.

 

I do not want this to be a conversation about redshirting- I know it is a hot- button topic.  

Separating the twins by official grade level is not an option. 

I already know that I can teach them at their individual level (and will).  I DO need to choose a grade level as I am homeschooling through a public charter. The charter school said there is not an option to retain if I choose to put them in regular kinder now (retention for any reason is not allowed with the charter school at any point) which is leading me to want to have them do the Trans. Kinder so that my options may be a bit more open.

 

So, now to my question: how hard would it be to bump them UP a grade if i decide a few years from now that it is not the best decision to do the Trans. Kinder?  Frankly I feel that it is hard to make this decision about little 4 yos. and would like more time to get to know my little ones and their abilities/maturity levels.  Has anyone successfully bumped their kids up using a charter?  Or would I need to change charter schools? Could I do it if I was HSing on my own?  What about if I did the charter school through 7th, but then wanted them to skip official 8th and go straight into a Public High School? Does anyone know how this would work?  Officially they are public school students b/c of the charter, so do those records matter when going to High School?  Anyone know or have experience?

 

Thanks!!

 

I do not consider a July birthday to be late, or children who have July birthdays to be young for their grades. I say this as someone with a July 18 birthday. :-)

 

And so I would not consider making a July birthday child spend two years in kindergarten just because I thought that maybe this child would be immature when he's 13 and going into 8th grade.

 

Elementary school records are irrelevant when going into high school.

 

Don't borrow trouble by making things way more complicated than they need to be.

[LibraryLover]

I do not consider a July birthday to be late, or children who have July birthdays to be young for their grades. I say this as someone with a July 18 birthday. :-)

 

And so I would not consider making a July birthday child spend two years in kindergarten just because I thought that maybe this child would be immature when he's 13 and going into 8th grade.

 

Elementary school records are irrelevant when going into high school.

 

Don't borrow trouble by making things way more complicated than they need to be.

 

TK and K are not the same.  And a July b'day in CA (and other areas) these days is not the same as a July b'day of the past.  In my humble experience etc.  :)  I understand it will vary by community, of course.

[Ellie]

TK and K are not the same.  And a July b'day in CA (and other areas) these days is not the same as a July b'day of the past.  In my humble experience etc.  :)  I understand it will vary by community, of course.

 

I would still not hold a child back based on a July birthday.

[shinyhappypeople]

I suggest homeschooling independently this year and then re-evaluating next summer.  

 

We used to homeschool through a charter and it was NOT possible to retain my older DD, even though she has a Sept. birthday and desperately needed the gift of an extra year.  

 

If you feel you must sign up with the charter for this fall, I'd do TK and teach each child at his or her own level.  It's easy to be "ahead" but if your child is "behind" (or just needs the gift of extra time).... it's going to really, really stink for both you and your child.  You don't want to go there.  Trust me.

 

Also, keep in mind that these days Kindergarten is the new first grade.  So, TK is really just what K used to be.

[hollyh]

That is untrue. My November birthday DS repeated K through a public charter program with no problem. TK did not exist back then so the only option to get the stipend for the first year of K was to enroll him at 4-turning-5. All I had to do at the end of the first year to have him officially repeat K was to have the principal sign off on the request, which he did without hesitation.

 

I wish that I had done it early with my October birthday oldest girl. I tried to have her grade changed last year and the then-principal of the school denied the request. He has since switched to another role at the charter and I talked to our assigned teacher this morning about re-submitting a request to the new principal. Repeating a middle school grade is apparently a LOT harder to get approval for than repeating K. I just didn't anticipate when she was younger the issues we would be dealing with as a 'tween.

 

I would have thought that as well, so I called the charter school (and a different charter school) and they both told me that it would not be allowed for any reason. Once they are enrolled as a homeschooling child, they would not allow retention. Neither one had an immediate answer on if I would be able to push a child forward at a different time.

 

I'm wondering if I start in one charter school and then want to skip a grade, can I go to a different charter and do that.  So, kid ends 2nd grade, then I enroll that child in a different charter in 4th instead of 3rd?

 

Or, if kid ends 2nd grade, I teach 3rd on my own for a year (PSA, I believe it is called?) and as my own school I promote the child to skip a grade.  Then I enroll kid in 5th grade  at a different charter or public school (assuming I have covered 4th grade topics of course).  Would that work?  

[LibraryLover]

I would still not hold a child back based on a July birthday.

 I agree. However,  I would take regional/current/changing K expectations under consideration before I made a final decision.

[shinyhappypeople]

I would have thought that as well, so I called the charter school (and a different charter school) and they both told me that it would not be allowed for any reason. Once they are enrolled as a homeschooling child, they would not allow retention. Neither one had an immediate answer on if I would be able to push a child forward at a different time.

 

I'm wondering if I start in one charter school and then want to skip a grade, can I go to a different charter and do that.  So, kid ends 2nd grade, then I enroll that child in a different charter in 4th instead of 3rd?

 

Or, if kid ends 2nd grade, I teach 3rd on my own for a year (PSA, I believe it is called?) and as my own school I promote the child to skip a grade.  Then I enroll kid in 5th grade  at a different charter or public school (assuming I have covered 4th grade topics of course).  Would that work?  

 

What appeals to you about using a charter?  Honestly, if you're homeschooling anyway, why not just go independent and bypass ALL of the hassle?  Even if you just homeschool independently for a couple of years, you're certain to have a better sense of what grade level would be appropriate for your children.  

[Guest]

Homeschooling independently in CA is very easy:

 

http://a2zhomeschooling.com/regional/us/california/california_private_school_affidavit_sample/

 

but kindy is not mandatory here so you don't need to file until a year from next October.

 

I do not personally believe that the current public school curriculum is developmentally appropriate. My 22 year old's first grade curriculum is essentially identical to my 6 year old's kindy curriculum.

 

Your little guy is a perfectly normal, healthy little BOY who does not need to hold a pencil just yet and is not going to have the same academic interests and abilities as your perfectly normal, healthy little girl at this age.

[hollyh]

I know HSing in CA is easy. We are choosing to do a charter b/c it helps us financially.  The kids can be in outside activities that we would like them to be in without cost to us.  

[Crimson Wife]

What appeals to you about using a charter?  Honestly, if you're homeschooling anyway, why not just go independent and bypass ALL of the hassle?  Even if you just homeschool independently for a couple of years, you're certain to have a better sense of what grade level would be appropriate for your children.  

 

$800 per semester x 2 kids is a LOT of money to walk away from over a few hoops to jump through. I did PSA when we first started out but then the economy tanked and the only way we could afford to continue was enrolling in a charter.

[FO4UR]

Your best and easiest option here would be to homeschool the first year on your own. This way you would be able to school them according to their strengths but not be forced to choose a grade. Since you are in Ca, and for heir age, you will not have to file the private school affidavit. Doing this will give you a year to decide. Next year you can join the charter school, and declare the grade you want then.

 

Once you enroll them in any public school and declare a grade, that s their grade. Changing schools does not change this. You would have to change districts, or get permission from the school to change the grade. Also if you wait to enroll your kids a few years down the road, the school may choose their grade by birthdate, which is what most schools in Ca will do. Ask me how I know....

 

HTH

 

 

$800 per semester x 2 kids is a LOT of money to walk away from over a few hoops to jump through. I did PSA when we first started out but then the economy tanked and the only way we could afford to continue was enrolling in a charter.

 

 

That money really isn't needed for kindergarten.  It would be nice, yes...but so would the freedom to choose what grade a year from now based upon how they grow in the mean time.

 

 

 

I think I'd opt out of the charter for a year.  ymmv

 

(That's a TON of $$$$!!!!  I will try not to be jealous of CA HSers.)

[Crimson Wife]

The charter stipend can be used for classes as well as things like swimming and music lessons. There's no way that we would be able to afford those things if we went PSA.

[maize]

In your situation I would do TK, then plan to jump a grade later if needed. If you have to you could homeschool independently for a year or two to change a child's placement.

[clemota]

Hollyh, I have a young first grader (Sept. birthday) whom I regret not keeping back for a year.  However, when she turned 5, TK had just started, and was only available to kids whose bdays were Oct-Dec (that was the whole slow-roll-back thing.  Now it's open to a much wider range.)  She wanted to start school like her big sister, she was already reading fluently, and she was old enough to attend all the wonderful classes in the area that I would not be able to afford without the aid of a charter.  So we started her in kindergarten.

 

DD works at higher-than-grade level for several of her subjects.  Her report card from the charter reflects this and our assigned teacher recognizes her strengths.  But I wish I had kept her back another year merely for maturity's sake.  When she's in with a group of other first graders, you can tell that she's the young one.  I know maturity will come with age,  but I do wish she'd had a bit more time to grow.

 

You will be able to teach each child where they are AND the charter should recognize this.  You may not be able to "officially" accelerate on paper, but if your child needs to be at a grade level (or 2 or 3 levels) higher than their recorded grade, you should be able to do this with no problem.  You can register then for TK but actually teach them at K level or higher.  The charter should be fine with this (especially since there are very few, if any, transitional kindergarten curriculum!)

 

We have a friend whose child made the cutoff date of an early October birthday and started TK.  They did Kindergarten work that year, and are finishing up 1st grade work this year for what is officially her K year. But now she has an extra year before dealing with high school work and will have an extra year of maturity before hitting college. 

 

If you're joining a charter because of funds for classes, I'd recommend starting them in TK.  You can still teach at a K level if you want.  Or higher.  Or lower.  The charter and your assigned teacher will work with you and your kids where they are, and you can watch them enjoy all the wonderful classes that the charter will pay for. :D

 

[shinyhappypeople]

$800 per semester x 2 kids is a LOT of money to walk away from over a few hoops to jump through. I did PSA when we first started out but then the economy tanked and the only way we could afford to continue was enrolling in a charter.

 

Would you PLEASE not assume that I don't know what I'm talking about? I know.  I've been there.  I allowed my older DD to be put through hell over $800 a semester, and I regret it every day.   These are NOT just a "few hoops" to jump through, when your child is working "below grade level."  

 

Despite the fact that DD was making steady progress (she moved all the way "below basic" to "basic" on STAR testing for math and ELA over the course of a year) it was not enough for them. It got so bad that our ES was required to do monthly assessments (tests) and DD was required to show progress.  The school was pushing brutally hard to get her up to their precious grade level standards.   They did not care about her.  ALL they cared about was a test score, period, the end.  

 

DD actually started weeping on the way to our ES meetings because of the stress and pressure, even though our ES was a sweetheart and someone DD genuinely liked.  That's when DH and I decided that no amount of money was worth mentally torturing our child.  We withdrew her and my other DD and haven't looked back.

 

So, when I warn a parent who has a child that's "borderline ready" or we can predict as needing the gift of extra time, I will always, always, always discourage that person from using a charter.  Using a charter under those circumstances is setting you and your child up for a lot of stress that is completely avoidable.  If your child is working at or above grade level, it's no big deal. 

 

Also, regarding income, we make $35,000/yr.  We make it work, spend carefully, cut out extras and make a lot of hard financial choices, and don't put our kids in every extracurricular we'd like,  but it is absolutely, unequivocally worth it.  You cannot put a price tag on freedom. 

[Ellie]

 

(That's a TON of $$$$!!!!  I will try not to be jealous of CA HSers.)

 

California homeschoolers don't get that money. It only goes to people who enroll their children in the public home-based charter schools, whose dc are legally public school students, not private school students (homeschoolers have been recognized by the courts as being private schools). That money comes with a price tag that not everyone is willing to pay.

[Carol in Cal.]

What the charter is telling you is not true of all charters.

I know someone whose son started 'early'--another summer birthday.  Later in his education she held him back.  She had no trouble with her charter for doing so--she just told them that he was a 4th grader again, and that's what they did.

 

I have heard repeatedly that it is almost impossible to skip a grade, though.

 

If I were you, I would put them into kindergarten and let the chips fall where they may.  Have them repeat 5th grade if necessary.  Teach at their own level.  Don't take the state tests seriously. 

[jnaj]

I considered enrolling in a charter homeschool program because of the $$ as well. When I looked into what was involved on MY side (and for my children), I decided it was not worth the money. There are many rules you have to follow, and a lot that you must do which really takes away the "freedom" that we enjoy about homeschooling. I feel like it's almost like being enrolled in a regular public school, but with more work, if that makes sense. I COMPLETELY understand why people enroll in the charters though. It's just not for us. I personally would skip enrolling kids in extra classes and take advantage of free resources such as homeschool groups, local library programs, free city programs, etc. 

 

I know a lot of people enrolled in charters that are completely happy with the setup. I know others who have left because they were miserable. Everyone is different and what works for one person doesn't work for another.

[Carol in Cal.]

California homeschoolers don't get that money. It only goes to people who enroll their children in the public home-based charter schools, whose dc are legally public school students, not private school students (homeschoolers have been recognized by the courts as being private schools). That money comes with a price tag that not everyone is willing to pay.

 

If you're going to be all legalistic, which is really pretty insulting to the OP and others who employ the public charters but truly are in charge of doing their children's education nonetheless, at least get it right.  The courts have not recognized homeschoolers as private schools.  That is why the state superintendent of education goes around saying that homeschooling is illegal in California.  Rather, the courts have recognized that homeschoolers have the right to define themselves as private schools if they follow the private school laws regarding legal registration and covering specific subject areas.

[SkateLeft]

.

[Ellie]

If you're going to be all legalistic, which is really pretty insulting to the OP and others who employ the public charters but truly are in charge of doing their children's education nonetheless, at least get it right.  The courts have not recognized homeschoolers as private schools.  That is why the state superintendent of education goes around saying that homeschooling is illegal in California.  Rather, the courts have recognized that homeschoolers have the right to define themselves as private schools if they follow the private school laws regarding legal registration and covering specific subject areas.

 

Perhaps I am dense, but I do not see the difference between what I said and what you said.

 

The state superintendent can say whatever he likes. The court decision stands; he is wrong.

 

And yes, there is a great mountain of difference legally between children who are enrolled in a public school (i.e., charter school, whether they are campus-based or home-based) and children who are enrolled in a private school. I got that right. You bet the public schools will absolutely be legalistic over the difference.

 

ETA: I found this statement by the superintendent of schools, dated 2013. Perhaps your information is old.

[Carol in Cal.]

 

 

ETA: I found this statement by the superintendent of schools, dated 2013. Perhaps your information is old.

 

Actually, that statement is dated 2008, and does not pertain to the question at hand.

 

The context is described in the article, and it's actually quite chilling, implying as it does that although CA did not as a result of the referenced court case change their policies about enforcement, parents have no inherent right to provide any other education for their children except a full time, credentialed tutor or fulltime school attendance. 

 

 

[Laurel-in-CA]

We've used charters and are now *very* happy to homeschool independently in CA.

 

Posters are quite right to tell you that different charters have *very* different rules & personalities & even recordkeeping/testing requirements. So the first thing to do might be to check out other charters that serve your area and see what their rules are for both retention and grade advancement, as well as teaching at/below/above grade level. We very briefly participated in one charter that refused to order math for the level at which my dd was performing because it was 1 semester ahead of grade level. Others have been willing to order multiple levels of math for the same child in the same year.

 

Recordkeeping and even testing requirements may vary by charter. That is, most will ask you for a daily learning log and some samples as well as participating in yearly statewide testing. But they may also ask you for WEEKLY or MONTHLY versus by-semester samples from each subject. This can get to be a real PITB because, of course, they also have rules about what is an acceptable sample for a given subject area and some want you to log your PE hours or write something for every single subject, including PE every single week. Often "we did the next 5 lessons in phonics" is NOT ok; you have to put down what phonemes you studied and sample spelling words, for ex. And some charters require testing via online computer programs for math & english at the beginning and end of every semester *in addition* to statewide testing. You never get the state test results until August, right before the new school year starts, so they are basically worthless as a diagnostic. Some charters require you to submit monthly lesson plans (or follow theirs) and then track whether you achieved those objectives, tied, of course, to the state objectives for each subject, so you have to learn educationalese to comply. Some require you to sign an agreement not to use any sectarian (religious) materials in your homeschooling, while some allow you to purchase your own materials but a religious word/publisher/topic better never show up in your samples.

 

Charters allowed us to keep homeschooling when dh was laid off for months at a time; they're not all bad. However, I wouldn't do it unless I had to. And you don't have to do it for kindergarten, let alone transitional kindergarten if that's the path you choose.

[Crimson Wife]

Would you PLEASE not assume that I don't know what I'm talking about? I know.  I've been there.  I allowed my older DD to be put through hell over $800 a semester, and I regret it every day.   These are NOT just a "few hoops" to jump through, when your child is working "below grade level."  

 

Despite the fact that DD was making steady progress (she moved all the way "below basic" to "basic" on STAR testing for math and ELA over the course of a year) it was not enough for them. It got so bad that our ES was required to do monthly assessments (tests) and DD was required to show progress.  The school was pushing brutally hard to get her up to their precious grade level standards.   They did not care about her.  ALL they cared about was a test score, period, the end.  

 

DD actually started weeping on the way to our ES meetings because of the stress and pressure, even though our ES was a sweetheart and someone DD genuinely liked.  That's when DH and I decided that no amount of money was worth mentally torturing our child.  We withdrew her and my other DD and haven't looked back.

 

So, when I warn a parent who has a child that's "borderline ready" or we can predict as needing the gift of extra time, I will always, always, always discourage that person from using a charter.  Using a charter under those circumstances is setting you and your child up for a lot of stress that is completely avoidable.  If your child is working at or above grade level, it's no big deal. 

 

Also, regarding income, we make $35,000/yr.  We make it work, spend carefully, cut out extras and make a lot of hard financial choices, and don't put our kids in every extracurricular we'd like,  but it is absolutely, unequivocally worth it.  You cannot put a price tag on freedom. 

 

I'm sorry you had a bad experience but I want to emphasize to others who are reading this thread that not all charters are like that. People hear the horror stories and get scared off when many, many people have totally fine experiences (at least K-8 as high school seems to involve much bigger hoop-jumping).

[yvonne]

Some require you to sign an agreement not to use any sectarian (religious) materials in your homeschooling

 

Laurel, 

 

Which charter was this?  (Feel free to pm me if you prefer.)

 

Thanks,

yvonne

[Crimson Wife]

Our charter agreement states that we cannot turn in any work samples with religious content except in the context of history or literature. I have heard through the grapevine that some charter ES/IST/etc. incorrectly tell families that they cannot use ANY religious materials even if purchased out-of-pocket, but that is untrue. Plenty of people use Apologia for science or Rod & Staff for grammar, etc., etc. They just have to create a secular work sample to turn in to the charter for recordkeeping.

[Carol in Cal.]

No one can prevent people from giving their children religious training.  Of course, that doesn't mean that the government should pay for religious materials.  So from what I have seen, around here the charters won't accept mention of religion in homework samples, nor will they pay for religious materials or classes, but they can't stop you from using religious materials that you purchase yourself.  That would be a First Amendment issue.

[Carol in Cal.]

Regarding advancing  your child--it is true that there is a downside to putting children in a position to always be struggling.

 

But there is also a significant downside to having your child held back and then always under-challenging him.

 

Those who advocate waiting for kindergarten usually say that there is no harm in waiting, but I disagree with that.  Your held back child could end up stuck with emotionally less mature other children, to his great distress, and could simply not want to bother much with schoolwork if it's too trivial. 

 

I would suggest enrolling them as kindergarteners, and teaching them at their own level, and not worrying about the state testing and standards for a few years.  If you are doing a reasonable job, their skills should converge by the time the testing rolls around.  This gives you the leeway to have them, for instance, spend two years in eighth grade down the road if you want to hold off on high school; or to stretch out some material over a longer time than the schools would allow.  As a homeschooler, you can customize your children's education.  That is one of the key benefits of homeschooling.  Try not to allow other commitments to take that away from you!

[shinyhappypeople]

 

I'm sorry you had a bad experience but I want to emphasize to others who are reading this thread that not all charters are like that. People hear the horror stories and get scared off when many, many people have totally fine experiences (at least K-8 as high school seems to involve much bigger hoop-jumping).

True.  Many of my homeschool friends are with the same charter we left.  However, with only one exception all those kids are working at/above grade level.  That's the key right there. 

[clemota]

OP,  there's been a lot of good information (and multiple hot-button viewpoints  :rolleyes: ) presented here.  Maybe your best bet is to find out what your local charter states about doing non-grade-level work (whether it be up or down).    Is your elder DD in the same charter?   If so, can you approach your teacher/mentor and find out what she/he thinks?  I'm guessing that you'd be assigned the same teacher for all kids (that's how it is in the charters around here), and she/he would have an idea of what's permissible and what isn't.

 

 

 

 

[amiesmom]

Interesting that you were told you can't retain. I have my kids enrolled in a CA charter, I retained my DS in Kindergarten, it was as simple as signing a paper, my ES knew from day 1 that my intention was to retain him.  Maybe you can't retain for TK?  If you're in So. Cal, I can PM you the name of our charter if you want it.

[Laurel-in-CA]

 

Laurel, 

 

Which charter was this?  (Feel free to pm me if you prefer.)

 

Thanks,

yvonne

Pathways Charter, Sonoma County.

[yvonne]

Thanks, Laurel. Good to know what to avoid!

 

[hollyh]

Interesting that you were told you can't retain. I have my kids enrolled in a CA charter, I retained my DS in Kindergarten, it was as simple as signing a paper, my ES knew from day 1 that my intention was to retain him.  Maybe you can't retain for TK?  If you're in So. Cal, I can PM you the name of our charter if you want it.

Yes, please send me info on which charter that was. I'm interested to hear.

 

OP,  there's been a lot of good information (and multiple hot-button viewpoints  :rolleyes: ) presented here.  Maybe your best bet is to find out what your local charter states about doing non-grade-level work (whether it be up or down).    Is your elder DD in the same charter?   If so, can you approach your teacher/mentor and find out what she/he thinks?  I'm guessing that you'd be assigned the same teacher for all kids (that's how it is in the charters around here), and she/he would have an idea of what's permissible and what isn't.

My charter doesn't care what I teach/what level.  They just said that once the child is enrolled in whatever grade, they would only be moved up each year - has absolutely nothing to do with capability or work completed. There would not ever be an option for retention.  As far as skipping a grade, the charter was not sure. I have my ES researching that for me since the person I called at the charter office did not know if it would be allowed.  I called a friend who works for another charter and she said that retention is not allowed there either, but that she thought I might be able to change charters and skip a grade if I wanted - but wasn't sure about that either.  Which is why I came on here seeking others' experiences with it.  

 

And just for the record for those who are leery of charter schools (although I don't think this had anything to do with my original post), my charter is super easy to deal with and I have 100% control over my kids' education. All I have to do is give them a few work samples every month and take a beginning/end of the year evaluation.  Seriously not a big deal (TO ME) for all that I get in return.

[Tidbits of Learning]

That is a seriously tough call.  I have both girls and boys and I used to get down about the fact that the boys had Dec. b-days and missed the cut-off for school the year they turned 5.  It turned out to be a blessing in disguise.  Neither one were terribly ready to sit down and focus and school was not a priority at 5 for them.  Play was a big priority and they needed lots of time to be boys.  If it was just your son, I would suggest the TK.  You have a unique situation b/c you have boy/girl twins and are trying to think about down the road and keep them together.

I am not in CA, but in our experience with trying to advance after starting at 5 turning 6 for kindergarten...the public school system normally requires that your student be working 2 full grade levels or test 2 full grade levels (with a public school test and proctor normally for gifted placement) ahead of the grade they are currently enrolled to bump a grade up.  So if say you do TK this year and in 5th grade decide hey they are ready for 6th grade and you want to bump them up, then they would have to test 7th grade level to skip to 6th grade.  It is odd logic, but seems to be the standard rule of thumb.  That or they have to test gifted and have a really high IQ.  In my experience, jumping charters doesn't change the need to prove the student is working 2 grade levels ahead to skip a grade on paper no matter what level they are working in reality.  We have been in a charter and had 2 of our children need their grade levels changed or adjusted and it was just really a lot of red tape and in the end neither were able to be fixed after we had declared their grade 2 years ago.  I realize all charters are different, but I also learned that the rules they tell you the year you join may be totally different several years down the road.  So the ability to move up or down a grade may be something they will tell you is doable now and in 3-5 years the charter will have changed rules and it won't be doable.  I would probably go into it with the mentality that this grade is the grade you are married to until graduation if you stay with the charter.

Now, if it were me...I would look at the kids separately.  I would decide based on what I would do if I was putting them in brick and mortar school.  If I felt dd4 was ready for kindergarten, I would place her there.  If I felt ds4 was not there yet, I would do TK.  I have kids that are stair steps and each has their own talents and skills and areas that they shine.  I have girls with July and August b-days.  They were ready at 5 to start school and one was 4 for the 1st month of kindergarten and did great.  

If you are dead set on them being in the same grade starting out, then I would do the TK for both.  If I wouldn't be comfortable with ds4 going to a b&m public kindergarten and thinking he would do well at 5, then I wouldn't put him in a public charter at 5 for k.  If it was super important to me that they be in the same grade, then I would start dd out in TK as well.  My husband has twin cousins (both boys) and they went to b&m all the way through and they did not graduate in the same year.  It did not change the way they felt about school or each other.  Some times things just change along the way and one child needs more time than the other or one child struggles in high school to get credits.  If you are starting out knowing they are at different levels of readiness already, then I would place them individually in the grade level I felt they were ready for this year.  

[clemota]

 

 

I called a friend who works for another charter and she said that retention is not allowed there either, but that she thought I might be able to change charters and skip a grade if I wanted - but wasn't sure about that either.  Which is why I came on here seeking others' experiences with it. 

 

 

 

 

I would think that since the charter school are part of the public school system, you would not be likely to switch grades when switching charters.  They'll still pass on the current records from one school to another, so they'll have it on file. 

 

When DD started, our teacher at that time (we were in CAVA back then) told me in no uncertain terms that no matter where we went, DD would not be allowed to repeat unless there were significant reasons (like a long-term hospital stay).  So I had to really make sure that I wanted to place her school - because once in there, the process had started and we would not be able to change it.

 

If it were me, I think I'd look at the levels both kids were at, and try to meet the one who works at the lowest level.  So, if one of them was ready for K, but one wasn't quite ready yet, I'd go for the TK program.  If you think they would both be okay in what YOU (not the charter) consider to be an appropriate kindergarten level, then place them in K. 

 

One other thought: with the charter school, they'll be expected to take the new computerized CC tests in third grade.  I'd also consider whether or not I could have both kids able to do a basic typing program by 3rd grade in order to not be completely overwhelmed by the tests.   So I guess you may want to look at motor and computer skills as well.  Can you see both of them in 3rd grade taking an hour-long test on a computer?  I know that's quite far in the future, but it's something to consider. 

 

No comments from the peanut gallery on state testing, please.  I am merely trying to respond to OP's post, and offer suggestions to help her decide what to do.

[Cheryl in CA]

I apologize if this has already been suggested.  If needed, couldn't you go private for a year or two, reassign grades, and then go back into a charter?  If a child was in a public school and transferred to a private brick and mortar school the private school could reassign grade level based on their assessments.  Later, if the child were to go back into the public school system, wouldn't they keep the last known grade level (the one at the private school)?  Legally speaking, since going from a charter to a private school affidavit would be the same, I would think you could do the same.  It would be worth checking into anyway.  It would mean no $ for a year or two but sounds like it would be worth it.

[Arcadia]

  If a child was in a public school and transferred to a private brick and mortar school the private school could reassign grade level based on their assessments.  Later, if the child were to go back into the public school system, wouldn't they keep the last known grade level (the one at the private school)? 

 

My school district still goes by birthday for grade assignment regardless of whether the child comes from a B&M private school or out of state school.  They might honor the grade skip for a transfer from a public school of another district but that is on a case by case basis.

Retaining is hyper easy, parents just need to sign the form agreeing to retention.

[Arcadia]

double post

 

[Arcadia]

When DD started, our teacher at that time (we were in CAVA back then) told me in no uncertain terms that no matter where we went, DD would not be allowed to repeat unless there were significant reasons (like a long-term hospital stay). 

...

 

One other thought: with the charter school, they'll be expected to take the new computerized CC tests in third grade. .......  Can you see both of them in 3rd grade taking an hour-long test on a computer? 

 

My kids are with CAVA and I had applied back to my school district for Fall in February.  No issues if I want to retain them but no way will they let me grade skip.  Quite a few parents requested for retention in my kid's former neighborhood public school.  No one had problem. 

Retention request can be triggered by teachers or parents.  Teachers may not be willing to put in the request but parents can put in a request without needing the teacher's agreement.

 

The computerized common core tests wasn't that scary.  My older did the 4th grade one this year and was having fun doing it.

[Cheryl in CA]

My school district still goes by birthday for grade assignment regardless of whether the child comes from a B&M private school or out of state school.  They might honor the grade skip for a transfer from a public school of another district but that is on a case by case basis.

Retaining is hyper easy, parents just need to sign the form agreeing to retention.

 

It's interesting how different things are from place to place.  It shocks me that it's all about their system and not about what is best for the child.  I guess it shouldn't surprise me, but it does.   Since the dates have changed, I wonder if they would go by the current cut off dates or the cut off dates that were in effect when the child in question would have been eligible for K.  A child could look like they were skipped if they qualified for K under the old dates but the no longer do under current (if they go by the current).  That probably varies from place to place too, LOL. 

[Arcadia]

   Since the dates have changed, I wonder if they would go by the current cut off dates or the cut off dates that were in effect when the child in question would have been eligible for K.  That' probably varies from place to place too, LOL. 

 

It probably differs by district.  My district goes by the cut off date for when my kids would have been in K.  So my 9 year old boy who is just before the old cut-off (Dec 2nd) would still be in 5th grade for Fall.  

[clemota]

 

The computerized common core tests wasn't that scary.  My older did the 4th grade one this year and was having fun doing it.

 

I never said they were - in fact, my 5th grader said it was easier for her because she got to type - with her dysgraphia, it was actually a huge plus for her.

 

However, our teacher was in the room where the third graders tested, and said some of them had a hard time of it.  Not all of them were comfortable with written responses.  They would have to type watching their hands, would lose their thoughts as they tried to complete a sentence, get frustrated, etc.  She could tell which students were familiar with keyboarding and which weren't.

 

FYI - She was trying to make a point about me letting DD6 play on the computer more, as in writing an email to Grandma, or copying a few of our spelling words into a word doc.  She was not finding fault with the children or the testing setup itself.