Can you talk with me about pet euthanasia again?

[Laurie4b]

I posted some months ago, but want to have a chance to chat again in light of the length of time that has gone by.

 

Here is the bottom line: I (and most family members) want to put our dog down; however, we're not convinced it's right to do yet. She does not seem to be particularly suffering, but we are very stressed by the level of care it takes from us for her to function. It's caregiver fatigue in a big way.

 

Several months ago, something happened (thinking probably disc related, vet leans strongly toward neurological causes that will continue to degenerate.) and our 15 1/2 year old, large-sized dog has not been able to get from a lying to standing position since. She can't sit either--she will slump forward. Her left hind leg is nearly useless and worse, it crosses in front of her right rear leg and kind of trips her. We usually manually move it to the correct position and then she can keep it there on her own.

 

So everytime our dog wants to drink, eat, or go to the bathroom, someone has to lift her.  She is also incontinent to some extent, more so for bowels, so most days involve clean-up of dog poop. She occasionally also pees without "asking" to go out, though most of the time she does ask. Lifting her is hard because of her size and because that one leg doesn't work. Several of us (including teen boys) have hurt our backs trying to get her up. But when we do get her up, she can usually walk on her own, though she lists to the side (this is getting worse) and does better if she can lean up against us. She often tips over without direct support, but not always.  Last night, she kept barking to get up. We'd put her out several times, given her food and water, and I just couldn't think of anything else to do, so I went to bed having to block out the barking.

 

We recently boarded her and she did much worse at the vet's. I thought she'd taken a turn for the worse, but I think it was just the stress of being boarded. Despite that, the vet didn't say that she thought that she was in actual pain. (She takes the equivalent of a dog ibuprofen in the mornings and in the evenings, tramadol, a pain killer that also has sedative properties, so it helps her sleep through the night.)

 

Other than her immobility, she still enjoys things. When a dog friend comes to visit, she "smiles" and is engaged and even chases the smaller dog. She gets very excited about going for a walk, though she can't go too far (and tries to go farther than I know that she can. Then she resists being turned around, which nearly always results in a fall.. :/)  She also still clearly enjoys eating.

 

We, on the other hand, are really worn out: lifting, cleaning & recleaning the kitchen, bathing her after accidents, getting interrupted sleep.

 

She is clearly going downhill in terms of her abilities, but she is not in the process of dying.

 

I can't tell myself that I am putting her down to put her out of pain because it doesn't appear that she is particularly in pain, any more than someone with some creaky joints is in pain. She is just having trouble getting around. (She needs a lift, then a walker! My son has said he could design something that would help her walk around, but can't figure something out that would also let her squat or lie down) 

 

One side of my family were farmers and I know they are all in their graves rolling their eyes that I am even having a question about this.

 

But does it make sense to anyone that I am struggling because the main reason to put her down is for our sakes, not for hers? But we've carried on like this for months.

 

ETA: she's been x-rayed, blood work, etc. so it's unlikely that there is cancer.

 

Any thoughts? I am interested in the moral reasoning behind what you would do, not just what you would do. All thoughts are welcome though I hope that you will phrase them gently.

[Wilma]

That sounds terribly hard.  I'm sorry y'all have to walk that path.  :crying:

[SailorMom]

You wouldn't just be doing it for you - really.  Dogs hide pain.  It is a survival instinct (weak members of the pack are relegated to the lowest seniority, don't get enough food, etc.). 

I always tell people that, imho, you need to do this BEFORE they animal gets to the point where they are in great pain and suffering.  Think of coming home to a dog that has been stuck on the floor, in pain, possibly dying a slow, miserable death.  Not the way you want them to go.

No one can tell you if it is the "right" time because there is no actual right time.  There is no good answer - it's just crappy to have to decide at all. 

Dogs have no concept of the future - not in the way we do (that we know of).  Their life is now.  Right now.  You won't be depriving the dog of something they are looking forward to (i.e. a longer life).  You only have to deal with what the dog is experience in the moment - form moment to moment.

I know our lab was mortified when he had accidents in the house - you could see he was upset.  He was in pain - although he wouldn't show it - and couldn't do most of the things he enjoyed.  We decided that it was time rather than risk a difficult, lonely, or drawn out death for him. 

Again - there is no 'right' answer, and I still have twinges of guilt and wonder if we did the right thing (and it's been two years).  Our vet thought we were making a good choice, but that still didn't really help me feel there was a 'right' choice.

<<<hugs>>> 

[Ellie]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

She's 15 1/2. Seems to me she's had a good, long life, and that y'all have taken good care of her. As hard as it is, I'm thinking that it is kindness to let her go.

[Pawz4me]

Here are a few articles that might help.  They're from the website of Lap of Love, an organization for vets who specialize in in-home hospice care and euthanasia.

 

Pet quality of life

 

How will I know when it's time

 

Pet quality of life scale

 

I know those might not be very helpful, since your family's quality of life is a big issue in this case.  But you might be a little surprised in reading through those articles that it's considered normal for pet owners to euthanize an elderly pet before it declines further, develops uncontrollable pain, etc.

 

I don't think there's any right or wrong answer in your case.  I"m sorry you're having to go through this.  IME it's never, ever an easy decision, but sometimes it is a more complicated decision than other times. :grouphug:

[BrookValley.]

Here are a few articles that might help.  They're from the website of Lap of Love, an organization for vets who specialize in in-home hospice care and euthanasia.

 

Pet quality of life

 

How will I know when it's time

 

Pet quality of life scale

 

I know those might not be very helpful, since your family's quality of life is a big issue in this case.  But you might be a little surprised in reading through those articles that it's considered normal for pet owners to euthanize an elderly pet before it declines further, develops uncontrollable pain, etc.

 

I don't think there's any right or wrong answer in your case.  I"m sorry you're having to go through this.  IME it's never, ever an easy decision, but sometimes it is a more complicated decision than other times. :grouphug:

 

I agree, and especially with the bolded. Also, like SailorMom pointed out, dogs are really very, very stoic. Her quality of life may be less than you think. So don't be hard on yourself and think you are being selfish or horrible (actually, I think you would be the opposite) if you euthanized her now.

 

:grouphug:

[Lolly]

Laurie, it is okay. Take her to the vet and have her put down. It is time.

[SerenityNow]

I agree that she may just be hiding her pain.  In January we had to have out 11 year old St. Bernard put to sleep.  She had seemed okay, but as with any older dog she was slowing down, it was a bit harder to get up from her bed, she had a bit of a limp for a couple of weeks.  But she was still happy, wagging her tail, going outside, asking to walk around the block, eating her food.  And then one night she needed help getting up, and one leg didn't want to work.  By the next morning she couldn't get up at all.  When the vet looked her over he felt a mass in her leg that he felt was most likely bone cancer.  Bone cancer.  So of course she was in pain.  Maybe terrible pain.  I can't tell you the guilt I feel over that, even though there was no way for me to have known.  We knew that we had to have her put to sleep.  Even if she could have been treated, there was no way that we could manage lifting her and moving her.... she weighed as much as I did.  So before the vet did what he needed to do (shaving her leg and whatnot), they gave her a shot of pain medication.  In just a matter of seconds she was our old dog again.  She held her head up high, breathed easier, crossed her big front paws in the way that always made her look like a lion.  She looked so peaceful and so beautiful and I realized just how long it had been since she looked that serene.  So for her and for us it was definitely time.  Past time, probably.  And her end was easy and peaceful and pain-free.

 

So please, don't beat yourself up.  If you think it might be time, then it probably is.  You've loved her and cared for her for 15 1/2 years.... that's an incredibly long life for a large dog.  Helping our pets leave with dignity and peace isn't unkind.  On the contrary, it's the last and greatest kindness we can ever show them.

 

((Hugs)) to you as you decide.

[Catwoman]

I don't know what to advise you to do, but I have been in your exact situation and I could have written your exact same post when I was going through it. There are no easy answers and the guilt is tremendous. It's easy to think about your life being easier if you went through with the euthanasia, but then your pet gives you a sweet, trusting look and you feel like Satan for ever having thought about it.

 

Even when you reach the point where you're almost positive you'd be doing the right thing, it's still an agonizing decision to make.

 

One thing I will say, though, is that you will feel even worse if you wait too long and your dog suffers. I have done that, and later realized that I was actually being selfish by keeping my pet alive when I knew in my heart that the "time" had come. I kept telling myself I was doing the right thing by being a martyr and doing all of the clean-up and giving all the shots and medications and the hand-feedings, but in reality, part of the reason what I was doing it all was so I could avoid making the inevitable decision that really needed to be made. There is nothing worse than racing to the vet's office with a pet who is suddenly suffering terribly, and knowing it could have been prevented if you'd only made that trip a few days sooner. :(

 

If you're not sure what to do, do nothing. But once you're pretty sure, it's probably time.

 

I'm so sorry you have to make this kind of decision. It's so heartbreaking. :grouphug:

[Mama Geek]

Laurie our dog was a little over 15 when we put him down.  He had a hard time walking, standing using the bathroom, getting up, etc.  We ended up putting him down about 2 weeks before dd was born...he could have hung on for a few more weeks, but we had tried everything.  We decided that we didn't want to have to put him down after dd was born and when all of our family was around.  We both cried like babies when we did it and it was partly for convenience, and partly for him.  We got to say our good byes to him and work through some of our grief.  We were there by his side while they put him to sleep.  It was hard, but it was the right thing to do.

 

I hope you come to a decision that you can accept. :grouphug:

 

[datgh]

:grouphug: No advice just big hugs because I hope I never have to make a decision like you have to. This would be an awful decision to make for any pet owner. 

[Carrie12345]

I just want to agree that dogs don't show their true pain.  When we had Charlie put down a few weeks back, we knew he had to be hiding some of it, but the vet made it pretty clear that his cancer was so far advanced and widespread that he was absolutely suffering.  Hearing that, it was easy to look back on the previous weeks and see the signs we had overlooked.

 

She's had a good, long life. You've been a loving family to her in so many ways.  It is okay. :grouphug:

[Only me]

We had a very similar situation with our 120 lb lab. Didn't seem to be in too much pain but he never complained much about anything. He had so much trouble getting up and had a lot of accidents in the house since he couldn't get outside in time We decided to get X-rays and he had very bad cancer in his shoulders and legs. If we waited longer to put him to sleep he could have had a break that would have been extemely painful. This actually happened to my bil's dog a few months before and didn't want to see it happen to him. We brought him home for one more day and spoiled him rotten. Fed him a McDonald's cheeseburger for lunch and ice cream for dessert. We spent the whole day just hugging and loving him. The kids and I all slept on the floor and couch by him. The next day we put him to sleep. It was so hard to do but we feel we saved him from a lot worse pain.

[Laurie4b]

Here are a few articles that might help.  They're from the website of Lap of Love, an organization for vets who specialize in in-home hospice care and euthanasia.

 

Pet quality of life

 

How will I know when it's time

 

Pet quality of life scale

 

I know those might not be very helpful, since your family's quality of life is a big issue in this case.  But you might be a little surprised in reading through those articles that it's considered normal for pet owners to euthanize an elderly pet before it declines further, develops uncontrollable pain, etc.

 

I don't think there's any right or wrong answer in your case.  I"m sorry you're having to go through this.  IME it's never, ever an easy decision, but sometimes it is a more complicated decision than other times. :grouphug:

 

Thank you. THis is helpful. I think she's been at a 7-8 for months.

 

Mobility: Would you rate "Poor mobility" or "minimum mobility": She cannot get up from lying down on her own in the house (slippery); can sometimes outside (If she's settled herself in just the right position.) She can sometimes go up and down steps; sometimes falls. (We built a ramp which she goes down but prefers to hop up 2 steps). She can walk unassisted for short distances (about 1 block) but tends to "crab walk" moving sideways because of a bad rear leg. She is crab-walking more and walking forward less. That's been the biggest change in the last month.

 

Nutrition --2 though she has lost weight (175 before any mobility issues. 160 now. That's leveled out.)

Hydration -2

Interaction--1 there is some interaction, but it is decreased by her mobility and she is less interested in interacting with her humans. She doesn't seem to like to be petted anymore. She does like to interact with other dogs who visit. She has a visitor right now (young beagle.) She is "chasing" him old lady style.

Elimination: it's normal in terms of amount and frequency, but she's incontinent. Is that a 2 or a 1?

Favorite things: She loved to walk and now she can't but she has major interest in it. She was otherwise quite the couch potato. She is still interested in squirrels and other animals or birds she sees outside. So maybe a 1 or 2. She's still very interested in novel foods (and eats her kibble with a normal appetite.)

 

[Laurie4b]

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate hearing the experiences of others.

[Pawz4me]

 

Mobility: Would you rate "Poor mobility" or "minimum mobility": She cannot get up from lying down on her own in the house (slippery); can sometimes outside (If she's settled herself in just the right position.) She can sometimes go up and down steps; sometimes falls. (We built a ramp which she goes down but prefers to hop up 2 steps). She can walk unassisted for short distances (about 1 block) but tends to "crab walk" moving sideways because of a bad rear leg. She is crab-walking more and walking forward less. That's been the biggest change in the last month.

 

 

 

Assuming she spends most of her time in the house, I'd lean toward rating her mobility as minimum.  Or split the difference and rate it 0.5.

 

[Laurie4b]

Thanks, Pawz. How about this question? Elimination: it's normal in terms of amount and frequency, but she's incontinent. Is that a 2 or a 1?

[Lolly]

Thanks, Pawz. How about this question? Elimination: it's normal in terms of amount and frequency, but she's incontinent. Is that a 2 or a 1?

 

I would count that as being irregular (not normal) and go with a 1.

[PollyOR]

I'm so sorry.  :sad:   I had to make this decision with my cat a few years ago and our dog in January.  Hind sight is 20/20.  Personally I wish we would have done it much sooner.  There has been ongoing guilt about what our sweet girl (dog) endured her last year.

 

:grouphug: It is such a hard decision.  This is when I wish our pets could talk to us and tell us how they feel. 

[Slache]

When you do put her down, please pay the extra $20 so that she's asleep when it happens. I've worked with animals and I have bad stories. It can be kind and gentle if you just request the service, pay the cash and spend the extra time. It's worth it. It really is.

[Momling]

When you do put her down, please pay the extra $20 so that she's asleep when it happens. I've worked with animals and I have bad stories. It can be kind and gentle if you just request the service, pay the cash and spend the extra time. It's worth it. It really is.

 

I agree.  Our vet never offered this option and it was terrible.  I had to leave.  To be fair, I don't know that it would have been easier on her, it absolutely would have been easier on me.  They did apologize and we did not have to pay for the euthanasia, but it was pretty traumatizing for me.

[Laurie4b]

Thanks. Our vet discussed this with me, saying that sometimes they had a hard time getting the vein and it could be very stressful.

[ktgrok]

I'm a vet tech. I've worked with animals my entire adult life. I dedicated my life to them. I'd put the dog down. 

 

If you wait until the dog is no longer smiling at friends or eating, you will NEVER put the dog down. Many very sweet dogs will continue to do those things even when in excruciating pain. They are just that wonderful...but it puts the burden on us to determine when enough is enough. 

 

The barking sounds like she was in pain. 

 

The incontinence is not something a dog wants to live with. They are clean animals, and it isn't comfortable for them. It is distressing. And often they will get physical problems from it, like urine scalding. 

 

Finally, your own health (back pain) is being impacted. This isn't fixable. If it was, I'd say fix it. But it isn't. It isn't a matter of IF you should euthanize, it is when. And in my opinion, better your dog not suffer and go too early than suffer and go too late. I dont' think I've ever seen people bring in a dog for euthanasia earlier than they should. It's always past time. 

 

If you are thinking it is time, it is time. Waiting won't fix her. Let her go before she gets hurt worse. FAlling, tripping, etc...those hurt. Sitting in your own urine is not pleasant. Etc etc. 

 

Like I said, if you wait until the dog wont' eat...yeah, that doesn't usually happen in these cases. I've personally helped to euthanize a very sick dog that was eating french fries as we sedated it to put it to sleep. (the vet had Mcdonald's for lunch, the dog wanted the fries, we said, hey, why not?)

 

Hugs. Please, don't feel guilty. 

[ktgrok]

read more...the not wanting to be pet is also a sign of pain.

[Reefgazer]

I agree with a previous poster about animals hiding pain well; I know this is especially true for cats.  I've got nothing much to offer except sympathy and to take your vet's opinion for guidance.  The last cat I had before the ones I have now had cancer (hid it real well) and I decided to keep him alive until he really was in pain and not living a good quality of life.  I decided that would be my cut off point, because I was a wuss and really couldn't bear to put him down any earlier.  I think on some subconscious level, I was hoping he would go in his sleep, peacefully, and I wouldn't have to do that.  It didn't work out that way.  He went from "Oh, he's doing OK for now" to "OMG, he needs to be put down now before he suffers anymore" within a few hours on me one day.  I hopped in the car and took him to the vet at 11 PM (toting a newborn in one hand and a cat carrier in the other; I was alone and my DH was deployed) because it got that bad, that fast.  He died in the car. To this day (it's been 11 years), I regret not growing the cujones to just put him down.  I'm still kicking myself over that one, because whatever his suffering was or was not during his illness, it was monstrous in those last hours.  I swore up and down I would grow some courage if I was ever faced with that again and would never ask that of a pet again.  If you need affirmation that putting your dog down is the right thing, I would say it is, given your description.  When you said he didn't like to be petted so much anymore, that sounds as bad as a cat not grooming himself anymore.

 

ETA:  I've got the eye-rolling farmers in the family too.  The don't get what the big deal is, and *really* can't understand why I would let cats live in the house and not in the barn (where they can earn their keep).

[eternalsummer]

When I was 20 or so, our family dog (I was living with my parents at the time), a 15 or so year old dachshund, became quite ill with some intestinal thing.  It was pretty clear that he was in some pain and that he was likely not going to make it through.  He was not in the best of health anyway ( he was 15!) and it had come on quickly and he was defecating blood, etc.

 

So my dad and I went to the vet and I went in the room with my dog (my dad couldn't bear it) and they euthanized him while I stroked him.

 

I have still not been able to fully let go of the guilt I feel, though it wasn't my decision and he was after all going to die soon and was in pain.

 

The decision is yours to make, and only you can know if it's the right thing or not.  Just letting you know that you're not alone about feeling guilt.

 

 

I think generally that the argument that a pet is in pain or will be in pain, so might as well euthanize as it's the best thing for the pet, is a poor one.  My dad got sick a couple of years ago and was sent home from the hospital on hospice; we didn't just say, oh well, it's better off for him if we just kill him now.  We don't euthanize pets for their sake; if we were doing it for that reason we'd euthanize old people too.  We euthanize them for our own convenience - and that may be legitimate in some cases!  But I think it's important to recognize going in, otherwise you trick yourself into thinking you're doing something you're not.  Acting with clear vision is generally a lot better in the long run.

 

 

Eta: that was inaccurate, sometimes we do euthanize both pets and ourselves if we can, when the pain is truly unbearable and unrelievable with painkillers, etc.  But I think generally we're much much much more willing to euthanize pets "for their own good" than we are humans, which means it's not for their own good at all.

[mamajag]

Gently, I couldn't put my dog through being an invalid to that degree. It wouldn't be about cleaning poop or caregiver fatigue. It would simply be ending another type of suffering. There is suffering outside of physical pain. In your shoes, I'd give her lots of hugs, serve her her favorite meal, and then take her to the vet and say my goodbyes and pet her as she went. I know a lot of people don't think of reptiles as "real" pets, but I had to make this decision for my iguana when she was in liver failure. We could have kept up the feedings and super high humidity and the drugs and kept her for a while longer, but she was miserable stuck on her perch instead of exploring her sun room. I cried my eyes out as we sat in the sunshine in the grass at the vet's office waiting on the drugs to take effect, but honestly my only regret is that I didn't see earlier how ready she was to go.

[eternalsummer]

my grandmother has been on pain meds for 7 years and will likely be on them for at least 5 or 10 more.

[Lizzie in Ma]

You've already gotten some wonderful answers, so I just wanted to say I am so sorry you are going through this.  I just did with my dear kitty.

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[ktgrok]

 

 

 

Eta: that was inaccurate, sometimes we do euthanize both pets and ourselves if we can, when the pain is truly unbearable and unrelievable with painkillers, etc.  But I think generally we're much much much more willing to euthanize pets "for their own good" than we are humans, which means it's not for their own good at all.

 

Actually, every veterinary person I've worked with has said, in all honesty, they will figure out a way to be euthanized themselves, when the time comes. they see how peaceful and painless it is for the animals in their care and they want the same for themselves. We also see how NOT peaceful it is for the ones that don't get euthanzied. Trust me, most of the time, it is in the animal's best interest. I would imagine you haven't watched a sick, dying cat starve to death slowly, with ulcers in their stomach from the acidity that is caused by renal failure, dry heaving, until they go aginal and finally die. It's not pleasant. Being euthanized while still in some degree of comfort, that's what seems more kind. 

 

Also, we don't have the level of hospice care for animals that we do for people. For legal reasons morphine is not carried by any vet I know. Some variations are, but we don't have pumps to deliver constant doses, and if we did we certainly couldn't let it go home with the client, again for legal reasons. So the pet would have to stay in the veterinary clinic, away from those it loves, getting IV meds when it doesn't understand, often trying to chew out the IV, etc etc. That isn't feasible the way it is for humans. Even a pain patch has much less effectiveness in animals than in humans. We can't control their pain like we do a person in hospice, who is basically given as much morphine as they want until they die or the morphine kills them. And yes, sometimes it kills them, it is a respiratory depressant and in hospice you are allowed to give as much as they need, even if it depresses respiration. Not quite euthanasia, but not quite letting nature take it's course. 

[ktgrok]

What I took away from the post as far as pain is that she is not in pain... as long as she stays medicated daily. To me that means that if she were not given medicine daily then she would be in pain? Is that true? I'm not sure how often it is recommended for any living thing to rely on daily pain medicine.

 

I have no idea how I would handle this. I'm sorry you are dealing with this.

 

Even on pain meds the dog doesn't want to be pet, which says she is still feeling pain even on medications. 

 

Also, falling down over and over, even on the meds listed, would hurt. 

[Pawz4me]

 

 

I think generally that the argument that a pet is in pain or will be in pain, so might as well euthanize as it's the best thing for the pet, is a poor one.  My dad got sick a couple of years ago and was sent home from the hospital on hospice; we didn't just say, oh well, it's better off for him if we just kill him now.  We don't euthanize pets for their sake; if we were doing it for that reason we'd euthanize old people too.  We euthanize them for our own convenience - and that may be legitimate in some cases!  But I think it's important to recognize going in, otherwise you trick yourself into thinking you're doing something you're not.  Acting with clear vision is generally a lot better in the long run.

 

 

Eta: that was inaccurate, sometimes we do euthanize both pets and ourselves if we can, when the pain is truly unbearable and unrelievable with painkillers, etc.  But I think generally we're much much much more willing to euthanize pets "for their own good" than we are humans, which means it's not for their own good at all.

 

It's really not fair or particularly accurate to compare pets to humans in this regard.  Too many things are different.

 

Humans can usually (at least until perhaps their last few days) communicate their level of pain or discomfort.  Pets can't do that.  Or not so that humans can understand.

 

The methods we have for controlling pain in humans is superior to what's available for animals.

 

Most humans who are chronically or terminally ill (or "just" suffering from terminal old age) understand what's going on.  They understand the need for medicines, the side effects, and why it's often necessary to be poked and prodded and stuck by other humans.  Most humans understand why IVs are administered and that it's in their own best interest to not rip them out.  Pets don't understand any of those things.

 

Humans understand the concept of the future, of life going on w/o them and what they'll be missing when they're gone -- kids' or grandkids' milestone events they'll miss, grandkids or great grandkids they'll never get to meet, etc.  It's widely believed that animals don't have the capacity for understanding the concept of the future.  They live very much in the "right now."

 

Stating that we euthanize pets and say it's "for their own good"  but don't do the same for humans and therefore euthanasia must not really be "for their own good" isn't really a logical argument.  It's quite possible it's the other way around -- perhaps the animals are the ones for whom we're getting things right, and not being able to legally (in most places) humanely end a human's suffering is what we're getting wrong.

[heartosunshine]

:grouphug:

We made the difficult decision to euthanize our old greyhound a few weeks ago. We adopted him when he was 4 (off the racetrack) and had him 9 years. So much time & so many wonderful memories!

 

It's so hard to know when is the right time to help your pet pass peacefully. As humans, we have a responsibility to animals, especially those in our care, to not allow them to suffer needlessly. Unfortunately, they can't tell us when something hurts or if they feel uncomfortable. On top of that, their personalities are such that they live in the moment and and can be in pain and happy at the same time.

 

In our case, I kept second guessing up until we got to the vet. When we left the house, Max was walking on his own & excited to see his leash (heartbreaking). By the time we got to the vet, 15 minutes later, he was unable to stand and when they carried him into the special room (set up like a living room), he could barely lift his head. Clearly, he was in serious trouble. We had made the right decision but it was agonizing.

[Isabella]

:grouphug: It's a very hard place to be.  Saying that, though, my decision would be to put her to sleep, and that would be based on her not being able to get up to go to the toilet.  One of the basic instincts of a dog is to move away from it's bedding to go to the toilet.  This starts from a 2-3 week old puppy (I'm a registered breeder).  Her pain (although she doesn't show it, and the meds are keeping under control) and weakness are obviously enough that she cannot do what is one of her most basic instincts.  This alone would indicate to me that it's time to let her go.  :grouphug: Hugs to you as you make the decision that you probably have already made.

[Laurie4b]

Thank you everyone. It has been especially helpful for me to understand how much being incontinent might bother her. I thought it was just the humans that it bothered and that she was oblivious to it (kind of like dogs seem oblivious to how much mud they are getting into.)

 

She slept all day yesterday, so I thought, "Ok, this is clearly "it."She is running out of steam."  Then ds's gf came over last night with her young beagle and she was doing her alpha thing and chasing him. Yes, chasing. Not long, but chasing.   Then today, she was much more engaged in general and  dh had her out on the lawn with him while he was mowing. Suddenly, she wasn't where she had been lying. She had gotten up on her own and had headed down to the neighbors (We live in a rural neighborhood so it's about a city block to the next door neighbor's). Dh went down and got her. It happened again and the second time she was running down there (not graceful running, but moving at a pretty good clip.) They have a dog that she likes . Oy.

 

Not all family members are of the same mind yet. The up and down nature of this makes it harder to get consensus.

 

Thank you so much for your thoughts. They've given me more clarity and others in the family are reading the thread, too, as we attempt to come to a consensus.