A vent

[Halcyon]

Sorry in advance for this. I have spent the better part of the day today looking for a homeschool-friendly biology course with labs that is SECULAR and just have had no luck. I have looked at Miller Levine, Campbell and all the textbooks, but I don't feel we are going to tackle such a large textbook on our own without some guidance. I like Thinkwell a lot and really think my boy would love the videos, but it's incomplete--no textbook and no labs, so I'd have to jerry-rig something (which notoriously goes badly in our home). Science Shepherd looks good but again, not secular. DIVE--not secular. ABeka-not secular. 

 

Sigh. I am trying to recognize that the best biology course for my son will be the one that GETS DONE, and he has done so well with TabletClass Algebra this year that I thought a video-based Bio course for 8th would be great, but I just can't find one. We have pretty much settled on DO Physical Science for next year, but as for 8th grade Bio....I am just not finding what I am looking for.

 

I could create something on my own using a variety of sources, but historically we haven't been good about completing those types of courses. We meander and linger and so on, which is great, but I'd really like my son to get experience with actually completing a full year of science with a real text and labs.  :glare:  Right now I am leaning towards Thinkwell with labs that I put together. 

 

Okay vent over. I am going to watch tv and have some mint tea.

[quark]

Sorry it's so hard Halcyon. :grouphug: DS is enjoying Thinkwell bio immensely but we haven't added labs. DS is just so busy this year and I decided in the end to drop labs for now and let it be interest-led with the videos and some living books (e.g. finishing up whatever he started with Cats Are Not Peas, Microbe Hunters, King Solomon's Ring etc). 

 

Some ideas I was considering before deciding on interest-led Thinkwell/ dropping labs:

1. John Hopkins CTY Bio (which uses Thinkwell/ Plato) -- labs are included in the program afaik

2. Teaching Co's Biology The Science of Life videos and contacting Labpaq to see if they will help me customize a kit

 

I've heard that Labpaq will work with you so perhaps you could ask them about tailoring a kit to fit Thinkwell? If you do manage that, I'd love to know about it so I can follow suit. Good luck!

[Halcyon]

Sorry it's so hard Halcyon. :grouphug: DS is enjoying Thinkwell bio immensely but we haven't added labs. DS is just so busy this year and I decided in the end to drop labs for now and let it be interest-led with the videos and some living books (e.g. finishing up whatever he started with Cats Are Not Peas, Microbe Hunters, King Solomon's Ring etc). 

 

Some ideas I was considering before deciding on interest-led Thinkwell/ dropping labs:

1. John Hopkins CTY Bio (which uses Thinkwell/ Plato) -- labs are included in the program afaik

2. Teaching Co's Biology The Science of Life videos and contacting Labpaq to see if they will help me customize a kit

 

I've heard that Labpaq will work with you so perhaps you could ask them about tailoring a kit to fit Thinkwell? If you do manage that, I'd love to know about it so I can follow suit. Good luck!

 

 

Thanks quark. I just needed to vent-i feel like all the courses with great presentation and geared to the hs market are christian. 

 

Thank you for these suggestions. I will look at Labpaq. Perhaps I can coordinate with the Illustrated Guide to Home Bio Experiments and then contact Labpaq. Yes, it will involve some legwork on my end...and follow-through...

[OneStepAtATime]

If you do find anything that really works, post it!  :)  I am certain there are others out there that are frustrated.  Sorry you haven't found something that really fits exactly what you want.  I will keep my fingers crossed that Quark's suggestions help you out.  

 

We aren't there yet and I'm not ready to think about it but someday fairly soon.... :willy_nilly:

[Halcyon]

Okay, just found out that I can buy a kit for the Illustrated Guide right here. So if I could coordinate the Illustrated Guide to Thinkwell....then it could work. Of course, you're talking about a mom who spent 90 bucks at home science tools last year and used exactly...none of it.  :huh: But hey, there's still 2 1/2 months left in the school year, right?? Maybe I am just bad at doing labs...(oh and yes we have at least 10 Young Scientists Kits that havent been used with younger......eep)

 

But if i make a formal syllabus for DS (watch this thinkwell video, do this worksheet, do this lab), he could follow it. He much prefers that. 

[Upward Journey]

If you do decide to use the MillerLevine text, I wanted to give you a heads-up to this website.  Full disclosure, I haven't fully explored it yet.  http://www.millerandlevine.com/

 

It looks to be maintained by the authors in conjunction with Pearson.

 

 

[Halcyon]

Thanks Ethel-I am really looking for video based...or video-led instruction along with a text. DS really enjoys learning that way and seems to retain more. But I will check it out!

[Halcyon]

If you do decide to use the MillerLevine text, I wanted to give you a heads-up to this website.  Full disclosure, I haven't fully explored it yet.  http://www.millerandlevine.com/

 

It looks to be maintained by the authors in conjunction with Pearson.

Thanks--i've looked at that, but my bet is that we wouldnt use it much. we seem to not do as well with science courses that have a lot of different components, particularly when they're online components.. We just don't get to all of them. But thank you! Still thinking about Milller and Levine as I do like the text.

[Upward Journey]

Yes, it's my favorite text for Middle School/ High School Bio :)

 

When I taught ps Biology back in the dark ages, we never used all the components that were available to us.  There was just too much! The kids were supposed to read the text on their own, I lectured & gave them notes, maybe we'd read some of tougher sections in the text together, and then I would give them written work to complete.  Of course we also did labs, and sometimes watched videos on a select topic.

 

I guess my point is, if you end up using a program designed for the public school, remember that the teachers are also picking and choosing.  They for sure are NOT using all the components, all of the time, kwim?

 

Another option: you're in FL right?  My daughter used the MillerLevine text for 9th grade Honors Bio. (b&m school in FL)  I would check and see what FLVS has to offer/is using.  

[Jen in NY]

It might be worth trying to sync Bozeman bio vids... we love mr. Anderson. :)

 

They were a great help for AP Bio....

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/bozemanbiology

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

We are currently using Miller-Levine with a biology LabPaq. It is working very well.

[Halcyon]

Yes, it's my favorite text for Middle School/ High School Bio :)

 

When I taught ps Biology back in the dark ages, we never used all the components that were available to us.  There was just too much! The kids were supposed to read the text on their own, I lectured & gave them notes, maybe we'd read some of tougher sections in the text together, and then I would give them written work to complete.  Of course we also did labs, and sometimes watched videos on a select topic.

 

I guess my point is, if you end up using a program designed for the public school, remember that the teachers are also picking and choosing.  They for sure are NOT using all the components, all of the time, kwim?

 

Another option: you're in FL right?  My daughter used the MillerLevine text for 9th grade Honors Bio. (b&m school in FL)  I would check and see what FLVS has to offer/is using.  

 

 

Thanks.I looked into FLVS but not too deeply. I thought (and I could be wrong here) was that Bio used NO text at all, which wouldn't work for my child at all. But definitely worth investigating more deeply. Thankyou.

[Halcyon]

We are currently using Miller-Levine with a biology LabPaq. It is working very well.

 

 

Which biology LabPaq are you using? Thanks. 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Which biology LabPaq are you using? Thanks.

I posted photos here

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/486988-lappaq-biology-photos/?fromsearch=1

[8filltheheart]

Plato has a biology course. It would not be on the same level as a Campbell or ML course. https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/plato-high-school-science/?c=1

[JBJones]

What about Real Science Odyssey's Biology 2?

 

http://www.pandiapress.com/?page_id=82

 

Scroll down for level 2. They're going to come out with a supplement for it that would make it high school level. You can even order an experiment kit to go with it that supplies all the material you need. They are definitely secular.

...nm....

Edited April 17, 2017 by JBJones

[Halcyon]

Plato has a biology course. It would not be on the same level as a Campbell or ML course. https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/plato-high-school-science/?c=1

Is there a lab component? Off to investigate.

[PeterPan]

Call me crazy, but have you looked at Life Science texts?  When you want bio but a step down from standard high school and more readable, that's a life science text.  

[Dicentra]

We are currently using the Miller/Levine text with the Kolbe syllabus.  Understand - I want my curriculum to be SEC-U-LAR. :)  Kolbe is very, very easy to modify - very little of it has anything to do with religion anyway and all you need to do for the parts that do is omit a few test questions and not do the "extra" work that goes along with reading their religious text.  Very, very easy to secularize.  You can also use the online labs that they sell to go along with the curriculum (all secular - they're from Pearson) or you can use The Home Scientist Biology kit - here's the correlation between Miller/Levine text and the lab kit:

http://www.thehomescientist.com/kits/BK01/miller-levine-dragonfly-correlation.pdf

 

My dd is technically in Grade 8 this year but she's a bit advanced in science. :)  With the Kolbe syllabus, you can choose to follow the Regular track (less chapters covered and no additional projects) or the Honours track (more chapters and projects).  Kolbe is all laid out for you - 36 weeks of assigned reading, chapter questions to do, online quizzes, 6 exams (one every 6 weeks), and the online labs scheduled in.  If you wanted to go the hands-on route with The Home Scientist kit, you'd have to schedule your own labs using the correlation PDF I gave the link for above.

 

You could also enroll with Kolbe if you wanted to outsource and have them take care of marking and such.  We didn't but you could. :)

[g1234]

Just a comment about The Home Scientist lab kits (from the author of the Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry).  We ordered his Chemistry kit for this year.  He was very, very responsive and very friendly and helpful over email.  I couldn't have asked for more.  The kit arrived exactly as advertised, which is pretty impressive given how many little nitpicky components there are.  I thought, and still do, that the price was very fair for what we were sold.  And I can assure you, from a few exchanges we had, that he is ADAMANTLY secular about science.  Last, I really appreciated that he publishes the entire lab manual for free, so you can make a very informed decision about whether or not to buy the kit.  All in all, in terms of business concerns, we were and are perfectly satisfied.

 

HOWEVER, I wanted to let you know that the kit didn't work out for us.  We didn't quite figure this out by the careful review we made of the manual, but we found every lab we tried--and we tried seven or eight of them--to be, well, just way above our heads.  And I consider myself to have a pretty decent science background.  I didn't major in science in college, but I took AP bio and chem in high school and I am not at all afraid of math and science.  I love them.  And I read well.  But these labs....I couldn't understand at least 50% of what the manual was saying about why we were doing each lab, what we were supposed to get out of it, how it deepened our understanding of chemistry.  I am convinced that, with the right guidance or knowledge, the labs were in fact very appropriate and should have/could have deepened our understanding, but with lab after lab we found ourselves barely managing to just follow the steps without any bigger understanding.  Then we'd get done and say something like, "Well, we got a precipitate of the right color, as we were supposed to, so I suppose we succeeded, but so what?  What does it mean?  Why did it happen?  How do we now understand more chemistry than we did?"  It was all we could do to mechanically follow each step without understanding what we were doing.  I think the lab manual actually probably does explain all this, but again, I think it just presupposes way more science knowledge than a non-science-major has.  Which I hadn't expected.  And last, a big issue was that every single lab took a minimum of twice the amount of time the manual said it would.

 

So unfortunately, this ended up being an expensive mistake for us.  I have to take responsibility for the mistake since I feel the price was fair, the seller's responsiveness was excellent, and we had total access to the manual before we bought.  But I just wanted to share our experience in case it turned out to be helpful for anyone else.

 

Also, a quick comment about Labpaq.  We considered them before we bought from The Home Scientist.  I was monumentally unimpressed.  First, the web site is extremely dense.  You have to email them just to get a password to see the catalog with prices.  Then when you do, you see that the catalog is half-illiterate, with sentence fragments and other grammatical errors that I can't remember any more.  Then I tried very hard to see any kind of meaningful sample of the lab manual before I bought.  No, no, and no.  I asked by email.  I asked by phone.  (Got the same person both ways.)  She wouldn't send me so much as a screenshot of one page of a lab manual.  She seemed to think it was enough to list the supplies in the kit, with absolutely no hint about how the labs would be taught.  Which is ridiculous.  Finally I found this review on the internet: http://jmbe.asm.org/index.php/jmbe/article/view/335/html.  It is really quite damning, and convinced me that my growing sense about Labpaq was correct.  I think they are worth steering away from, personally.

 

I am thinking that next year we might try labs from Quality Science Labs.  I have read a few positive reviews here.  I don't have any more knowledge about them, so this isn't really a recommendation.

 

Hope that helps.  Good luck--I know the lonely feeling of looking for quality secular science materials!

[Wildcat]

.

[brookspr]

I have both the Miller Levine text (dragonfly edition) and Campbell's Concepts and Connections text.  I also found a reading and study workbook that goes along with ML.  I, too, am planning Biology for next year with my soon-to-be 9th grade daughter.  Both books I got used, one at Goodwill and one at a used bookstore, and they were a great deal so we will go with one or the other! I am going to take some time over the next few months to figure out the schedule for the year and what labs we will complete with each chapter.  I have the Illustrated Guide to Home Bio Experiments and just started looking through that.

 

I found two additional resources for the Miller Levine text on ebay and purchased them a few days ago but haven't gotten them yet.  One was an interactive textbook with extra materials for $10 and a laboratory workbook for $6 + shipping.  I figured they were both cheap enough that I would get them and see if they could be of use.

 

My daughter is not a lover of science, but unfortunately for her both DH and I have chemistry degrees so we love and appreciate science.  I am hoping that we can figure everything out over the next 6 months so that we are ready to start in the fall.

 

I'm sure I didn't help much, but just know that there are more resources out there if you keep looking for them.  Ebay and Amazon are great places to search, even if you don't buy it on that site.  You can still see what is available and possibly find it used or cheaper somewhere else.

 

I am hoping everything we might need for lab supplies will be available thru Rainbow Resource or Home Science Tools, etc...

[Jilly]

HOWEVER, I wanted to let you know that the kit didn't work out for us.  We didn't quite figure this out by the careful review we made of the manual, but we found every lab we tried--and we tried seven or eight of them--to be, well, just way above our heads.  And I consider myself to have a pretty decent science background.  I didn't major in science in college, but I took AP bio and chem in high school and I am not at all afraid of math and science.  I love them.  And I read well.  But these labs....I couldn't understand at least 50% of what the manual was saying about why we were doing each lab, what we were supposed to get out of it, how it deepened our understanding of chemistry.  I am convinced that, with the right guidance or knowledge, the labs were in fact very appropriate and should have/could have deepened our understanding, but with lab after lab we found ourselves barely managing to just follow the steps without any bigger understanding.  Then we'd get done and say something like, "Well, we got a precipitate of the right color, as we were supposed to, so I suppose we succeeded, but so what?  What does it mean?  Why did it happen?  How do we now understand more chemistry than we did?"  It was all we could do to mechanically follow each step without understanding what we were doing.  I think the lab manual actually probably does explain all this, but again, I think it just presupposes way more science knowledge than a non-science-major has.  Which I hadn't expected.  And last, a big issue was that every single lab took a minimum of twice the amount of time the manual said it would.

 

So unfortunately, this ended up being an expensive mistake for us.  I have to take responsibility for the mistake since I feel the price was fair, the seller's responsiveness was excellent, and we had total access to the manual before we bought.  But I just wanted to share our experience in case it turned out to be helpful for anyone else.

 

:iagree:  We tried the Biology one this year and although I loved the manual and the supplies it did not work for us. I am glad to know that I wasn't the only who had this experience. 

[Halcyon]

We are currently using the Miller/Levine text with the Kolbe syllabus.  Understand - I want my curriculum to be SEC-U-LAR. :)  Kolbe is very, very easy to modify - very little of it has anything to do with religion anyway and all you need to do for the parts that do is omit a few test questions and not do the "extra" work that goes along with reading their religious text.  Very, very easy to secularize.  You can also use the online labs that they sell to go along with the curriculum (all secular - they're from Pearson) or you can use The Home Scientist Biology kit - here's the correlation between Miller/Levine text and the lab kit:

http://www.thehomescientist.com/kits/BK01/miller-levine-dragonfly-correlation.pdf

 

My dd is technically in Grade 8 this year but she's a bit advanced in science. :)  With the Kolbe syllabus, you can choose to follow the Regular track (less chapters covered and no additional projects) or the Honours track (more chapters and projects).  Kolbe is all laid out for you - 36 weeks of assigned reading, chapter questions to do, online quizzes, 6 exams (one every 6 weeks), and the online labs scheduled in.  If you wanted to go the hands-on route with The Home Scientist kit, you'd have to schedule your own labs using the correlation PDF I gave the link for above.

 

You could also enroll with Kolbe if you wanted to outsource and have them take care of marking and such.  We didn't but you could. :)

 

 

Okay, I am going to investigate further. I wanted a video based course, but this could be an option if I link in Bozeman videos. Thank you!

[quark]

Thank you to all who gave feedback on Labpaq and various kits/ resources.

 

HOWEVER, I wanted to let you know that the kit didn't work out for us.  We didn't quite figure this out by the careful review we made of the manual, but we found every lab we tried--and we tried seven or eight of them--to be, well, just way above our heads.  And I consider myself to have a pretty decent science background.  I didn't major in science in college, but I took AP bio and chem in high school and I am not at all afraid of math and science.  I love them.  And I read well.  But these labs....I couldn't understand at least 50% of what the manual was saying about why we were doing each lab, what we were supposed to get out of it, how it deepened our understanding of chemistry.  I am convinced that, with the right guidance or knowledge, the labs were in fact very appropriate and should have/could have deepened our understanding, but with lab after lab we found ourselves barely managing to just follow the steps without any bigger understanding.  Then we'd get done and say something like, "Well, we got a precipitate of the right color, as we were supposed to, so I suppose we succeeded, but so what?  What does it mean?  Why did it happen?  How do we now understand more chemistry than we did?"  It was all we could do to mechanically follow each step without understanding what we were doing.  I think the lab manual actually probably does explain all this, but again, I think it just presupposes way more science knowledge than a non-science-major has.  Which I hadn't expected.  And last, a big issue was that every single lab took a minimum of twice the amount of time the manual said it would.

 

g1234, perhaps you mentioned it but I missed it, did you pair the kit with a textbook? Was it confusing even after pairing it with a textbook? We briefly used the kit for a small chemistry group when kiddo was younger. We flipped the model. The group wanted hands on at a high level but did not want to wade through a meaty textbook and since we were not doing the labs for credit, only pure fun, we parents just went with their interest. It worked well because we watched youtube videos to research the background, had a chemistry-minded parent and a part-time mentor explain the science, carried out the lab (some took hours though), then discussed what we saw and researched the science some more afterwards. The group dissolved due to commitment issues not due to the kit's lack of direction. DH was considering continuing from where we left off once kiddo is ready for more chemistry.

 

I think Dr Thompson meant for the All Lab No Lecture book to be paired with various textbooks...the kit's manual is a shorter version of the book IIRC.

[Halcyon]

We are currently using the Miller/Levine text with the Kolbe syllabus.  Understand - I want my curriculum to be SEC-U-LAR. :)  Kolbe is very, very easy to modify - very little of it has anything to do with religion anyway and all you need to do for the parts that do is omit a few test questions and not do the "extra" work that goes along with reading their religious text.  Very, very easy to secularize.  You can also use the online labs that they sell to go along with the curriculum (all secular - they're from Pearson) or you can use The Home Scientist Biology kit - here's the correlation between Miller/Levine text and the lab kit:

http://www.thehomescientist.com/kits/BK01/miller-levine-dragonfly-correlation.pdf

 

My dd is technically in Grade 8 this year but she's a bit advanced in science. :)  With the Kolbe syllabus, you can choose to follow the Regular track (less chapters covered and no additional projects) or the Honours track (more chapters and projects).  Kolbe is all laid out for you - 36 weeks of assigned reading, chapter questions to do, online quizzes, 6 exams (one every 6 weeks), and the online labs scheduled in.  If you wanted to go the hands-on route with The Home Scientist kit, you'd have to schedule your own labs using the correlation PDF I gave the link for above.

 

You could also enroll with Kolbe if you wanted to outsource and have them take care of marking and such.  We didn't but you could. :)

 

 

DId you use this workbook?

 

And this is the course plan you were talking about, yes? Does it have answer keys for the tests?

 

And (one more question), what do you think of the online labs? 

[Dicentra]

DId you use this workbook?

 

And this is the course plan you were talking about, yes? Does it have answer keys for the tests?

 

And (one more question), what do you think of the online labs? 

 

I think I bought the workbook just in case my dd wanted to use it as a study aid before the tests but she hasn't so far.  She outlines each chapter and makes vocab/definition lists for all the terms as she reads.  That seems to be enough for her.

 

Yes - that's the course plan.  Yes - the tests have answer keys. :)

 

The online labs are - meh.  If that was someone's only option, then I suppose it's better than nothing.  Actual lab work at the high school level for biology and physics is important - the macro aspects of the labs line up very well with the theory that's being taught.  I have different thoughts about the value of most labs for chemistry at the high school level but that's for a different thread. ;)

[JanetC]

Secular bio videos available at BozemanScience.com are excellent.

The youtube channel MrDBioCFC is correlated with Miller and Levine. Only used a few of these -- they aren't as nicely edited, but they do explain things well and would be easy to match if you choose that text.

 

Janet

[Halcyon]

Thank you Janet. I have been watching the bozeman videos and really like them. Right now, I am leaning towards either 1) Miller's text with Kolbe, labs from Illustrated Guide to Home Science, and Bozeman or the other videos you linked. . I just ordered Miller's used from Amazon, so will be have a better sense when I get it as I can't find samples online anywhere  OR  2) Thinkwell with Illustrated Guide labs OR 3) BYU Biology<----prepackaged!! Woot.

 

I also am eyeing Science Shepherd, but based on this review, I just don't know if it will be a fit.

 

So much for pre-packaged.  :crying:

[g1234]

Thank you to all who gave feedback on Labpaq and various kits/ resources.

 

 

g1234, perhaps you mentioned it but I missed it, did you pair the kit with a textbook? Was it confusing even after pairing it with a textbook? We briefly used the kit for a small chemistry group when kiddo was younger. We flipped the model. The group wanted hands on at a high level but did not want to wade through a meaty textbook and since we were not doing the labs for credit, only pure fun, we parents just went with their interest. It worked well because we watched youtube videos to research the background, had a chemistry-minded parent and a part-time mentor explain the science, carried out the lab (some took hours though), then discussed what we saw and researched the science some more afterwards. The group dissolved due to commitment issues not due to the kit's lack of direction. DH was considering continuing from where we left off once kiddo is ready for more chemistry.

 

I think Dr Thompson meant for the All Lab No Lecture book to be paired with various textbooks...the kit's manual is a shorter version of the book IIRC.

 

Well, we've been using (and loving!) Zumdahl's Introductory Chemistry.  I admit I didn't tightly correlate the labs to the chapters, but I did loosely.  Plus now that we're well more than halfway through, I really don't think I've seen anything that would have significantly demystified any of the labs that so confounded us.  I think they're just at way too high a level for our level of chemistry-specific knowledge.

 

I can see it perhaps working better in the situation you describe--large chunks of time, knowledgeable guides, and the chance to spend significant time researching each lab in depth and lots more time carrying out each lab.  For us, it was intended as a component of her textbook/problem-solving study, to introduce her to chemistry lab equipment and basic kinds of chemical manipulations that can be done to test or demonstrate a concept.  We had so looked forward to this component of her chemistry study, but each lab was just an exercise in an increasing level of frustration.  And when the manual says a lab will take 90 minutes, and it ends up taking 3 hours, well, that can really mess up the rest of your day if you had any time-sensitive plans!  I'm not proud to admit that I have not managed to subsitute anything else for a lab component.  On the positive side, though, once we dropped the labs (which she grew to hate), she decided she adored chemistry and Zumdahl's book in particular.  She says she wants to keep studying chemistry next year instead of moving on to physics as planned, and she gets super excited when it's time to work problems from the end of a chapter.  We will study chemistry once more before she graduates, and I will be sure it has a substantial lab component next time.  So overall I'm not feeling too bad about it all, except that I am disappointed to have spent the money badly, and I'm disappointed that it didn't work out better, as I felt Mr. Thompson dealt openly and honestly with us and I had wanted to continue using his labs for all our high school lab work.  Sigh.  If only it could be that easy!

 

Hope that helps explain our experience.  Thanks for reminding me of yours.  Once I read your comments, I remembered that you had kindly responded when I posted last summer asking for advice on chemistry labs.  You told me of your experience and asked me to let you know how our experience went.  I guess I finally got around to it, in a roundabout way!

 

[g1234]

:iagree:  We tried the Biology one this year and although I loved the manual and the supplies it did not work for us. I am glad to know that I wasn't the only who had this experience. 

 

Thank you for replying with your experience, Jilly.  It helps me to validate our own experience.  I wanted it to work out so much, and it just didn't!  Like you, I'm glad to know that I have company.

[quark]

g1234, thank you so much for your answer. The sense of relief from dropping labs that were clearly not working really shines through in your post. Although I'm sorry that the kit didn't work for you, I'm so glad that you were able to find a textbook that caters so well to your DD's needs and that the said textbook is Zumdahl's. Now I can't wait to use the book with DS when he is ready. :)

 

Hope that helps explain our experience.  Thanks for reminding me of yours.  Once I read your comments, I remembered that you had kindly responded when I posted last summer asking for advice on chemistry labs.  You told me of your experience and asked me to let you know how our experience went.  I guess I finally got around to it, in a roundabout way!
 

 

Thanks again for the update! :)

[Halcyon]

For those of you who are still following this...I like the BYU course so far (spent about an hour on it tonight). There aren't videos, which is too bad. But the text isn't that hard, and you can print out the pdf. The feedback questions are good, and there are labs built in. 

 

Anyone out there who has a Bio background care to log in using my temporary password and tell me what they think? My bio background is limited and I want something good but not overwhelming. I would love feedback from someone more experienced than me. Please PM me if you want to do this. I would really appreciate an experienced set of eyeballs on this curriculum. 

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Just to re-iterate. We used Miller Levine with Kolbe course plans too. While Kolbe is Catholic, and so are we, we did a completely secular Biology class with my son as he's currently in a place where he's rebelling against religion. So out with the extra work. We skipped a couple of questions here and there, and didn't do the extra reading. Miller Levine itself is completely secular. 

As for labs, well, we have a lady around here who does biology labs as a living. We designed a year of labs with her, based on Kolbe's lab work (labs are included in their course plan)

[Halcyon]

That sounds wonderful Cleoqc--maybe i can find a way to outsource labs :D

 

I am eagerly awaiting Miller Levine in the mail.  I think i have narrowed it down to Miller plus Kolbe and added labs...and BYU online Biology. 

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

And if you can't outsource the labs, look at Landry Academy. I outsourced Chemistry labs with them, it worked out nicely. (even though we needed to plan a trip for that...)

http://landryacademy.com/lab-intensives.htm

 

It mentions "Christ Intensive" but my son (the allergic to everything religious) didn't have anything to complain about. No prayers, just pure science, at least in Chemistry)

[Jean in Wisc]

I've not read through all the posts...

 

I could see having a child do the video program and then following it up with labs. There are a large number of lab kits you could get--choosing a few that correspond with some of the subjects you covered this year might enable you to find ones that interest your child--dissection and using a microscope come to mind.

 

I spent a lot of years doing science by going straight through a textbook and skipping the labs. Then we finished up the year by doing the labs as sort of a review of what we had done. We enjoyed this a lot because we would get everything planned out and then set aside a few days or half-days and just do labs--labs can take a lot of time, but if you move on to lab #2 while lab #1 chills, do all the microscope activities at the same time, etc, etc, you can really get a lot done quick time.

 

If your child is good at keyboarding, you can put all the lab worksheets on Word.

 

You can fill out the worksheets ahead of time so that on lab day, you only have to put the results and conclusions down, and then the child has read the lab and knows what the experiment entails before he starts.

 

It is just one way to streamline a science class.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sunshine State Sue]

I have no help to offer.  I am glad that others have offered assistance.

 

I just wanted to say that one of the most difficult parts of homeschooling for me has been finding secular science and history materials.  Loved SOTW.  The rest has been more work than I ever wanted.  :tongue_smilie: Although I think there is more secular elementary age science materials now than when I needed them, I think.

 

DO Physics was terrific.  I am very grateful that CC is free here for hs'ers in 10th-12th grade.  That was the route we took.  Any CC possibilities near you?

[8filltheheart]

I actually find this thread interesting bc I have never had any problem finding secular science (or history) materials (all I use) and I am Christian and Christian materials in and of themselves don't bother me if they are accurate. I just have never seen any I really like.

[PuddleJumper1]

Thanks.I looked into FLVS but not too deeply. I thought (and I could be wrong here) was that Bio used NO text at all, which wouldn't work for my child at all. But definitely worth investigating more deeply. Thankyou.

 

Dd just finished FLVS Bio. You are correct, there is no text. Everything is online. At least for the FLVS option we use (homeschool not FLVS Full Time). FLVS Full Time may send some materials but that's not for individual courses.

 

As a side note - dd really enjoyed the class but if a text is a must then FLVS probably isn't what you want.

[Kate in Arabia]

Thank you Janet. I have been watching the bozeman videos and really like them. Right now, I am leaning towards either 1) Miller's text with Kolbe, labs from Illustrated Guide to Home Science, and Bozeman or the other videos you linked. . I just ordered Miller's used from Amazon, so will be have a better sense when I get it as I can't find samples online anywhere  OR  2) Thinkwell with Illustrated Guide labs OR 3) BYU Biology<----prepackaged!! Woot.

 

This is what we used for biology last year.  I also had *excellent* customer service from Robert Bruce Thompson (Illustrated Guide) -- (I had issues being an overseas buyer and fretted with how to manage transport of chemicals overseas, etc.).  The Guide did have some parts that seemed to go beyond our abilities/interests, but I did not feel compelled to finish every part, kwim?  As I recall they provide a correlation to Miller-Levine so you can match up experiments to chapters.  There were a few chapters with no associated lab, so I found alternatives online -- for example for dissection.  It was straightforward.

 

I have personal/political issues with Kolbe, unrelated to their products, so I will not use them again.  That said, their materials were well laid-out and it was super-easy to adjust/ignore the religious comments -- which to my recollection were only in the teacher scheduling pages and not in any materials that were to be given to the student.  (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) 

 

[Corraleno]

I actually find this thread interesting bc I have never had any problem finding secular science (or history) materials (all I use) 

 

:iagree:

 

I think what people really mean is that there's a dearth of secular science and history curricula designed specifically for homeschoolers, with assignments, assessments, and labs already scheduled out. I only use secular materials, and my biggest problem is trying to narrow it down and decide which resources to leave out, since we can't do everything.

[regentrude]

I actually find this thread interesting bc I have never had any problem finding secular science (or history) materials (all I use)

 

Same here. I was really surprised to hear this viewpoint, since I am using exclusively secular materials, and my only problem is the large variety of resources to choose from.

 

[regentrude]

For biology, we used Campbell Concepts and Connections, and started Campbell Exploring Life with DS. I did buy the student workbook/study guide, but it turned out to be rather useless; after all, the text is sequential, and you can just start at the beginning and work through it. All the study guide did was add an additional layer of busy work, and we ended up dropping it.

 

I am curious for those of you who buy a syllabus: what does the syllabus add that simply working through the text does not accomplish? Inquiring mind wants to know - thanks.

[Serenade]

DP

[Serenade]

NM -- my question was answered further down the thread.

[hepatica]

Just bumping this up because I want to join your vent!!! We too are looking for a video based, self-paced, secular high school biology (tablet class and DO worked well here too) and Thinkwell seems to literally be the only option. And, all the reviews seem to say don't do Thinkwell unless you have already had another bio, or a high school chemistry.

 

I am pulling my hair out. Don't want to just work through a textbook. My dyslexic dd doesn't learn best that way. DO charges a ton of money for his classes. I see a market out there for secular science in the same vein. Just saying, if any of you are science teachers I would be more than happy to pay good money for such a class. 

 

Where are all the secular science teachers?????

[chiguirre]

There's nothing all put together in a nice package. I've ended up using CK12's online on level bio book which includes lots of video lectures mixed and matched with GA Virtual Learning's bio course which has interesting projects and easy to do a home labs. GA VL includes some videos and lots of interactive websites. CK12 has a workbook and quizzes/tests. If you register as a teacher you can access the answers. Between these resources you can put together a varied, interesting bio course with enough written output and tests to make you feel comfortable that it is actually a high school level class.

 

I'd also recommend Landry Academy's science intensives. Landry's bio class is not secular, but the labs were, except for an opening prayer, a Bible verse on the souvenir t-shirt and other students' comments. T got a lot done in 2 days and enjoyed the experience. There were many dissections that would be impossible for a homeschooler to pull off at home, in addition to labs that required non-household chemicals and equipment. It was well worth my $80 (you have to look for special deals to get this price, but it's worth stalking their holiday sales).

 

[LaxMom]

My daughter is in the second semester of Curr-Click High School Biology hybrid class. There are 2 or 3 live webinars, Roni (the instructor) gives the assignments and suggested schedules, grades the uploaded work, provides support. She uses the CK12 text, virtual labs (we have a big box of lab specimens for live dissection labs, but that's our option).

 

My daughter is enjoying it and it's as thorough as when I took HS biology (in the Dark Ages, of course).

[hepatica]

My daughter is in the second semester of Curr-Click High School Biology hybrid class. There are 2 or 3 live webinars, Roni (the instructor) gives the assignments and suggested schedules, grades the uploaded work, provides support. She uses the CK12 text, virtual labs (we have a big box of lab specimens for live dissection labs, but that's our option).

 

My daughter is enjoying it and it's as thorough as when I took HS biology (in the Dark Ages, of course).

 

I was unaware of this course. Thanks!

 

Looking at the description, I still am not sure how the course works. Are the live sessions part of the instruction? Are there video lessons for the rest of the material or just a syllabus and the text? And, is the course self-paced, or does each semester have to be completed by the end of the semester. 

 

I have been looking at CK12 as an option, but my dd struggles with just reading and learning from a text, and I don't have the science background to decide which units to cover.