I am late for this, but can we talk about Snape?

[JadeOrchidSong]

I am so drawn to him all the way through all 7 HP books. I was so thrilled to learn the final truth in the Pensieve. I like him as much as or more than I like Harry.

I only saw movie HP 1 yesterday. So my love for him has nothing to do with the actor.

[Word Nerd]

When I first read the 6th book; I was more upset about Snape's seeming betrayal than I was that Dumbledore died. When I read it again just before the 7th book came out, my opinion changed, and I knew things couldn't be what they seemed and he had to be one of the good guys. I was glad to find out the truth at the end and to see that he redeemed himself. I still didn't really forgive his unrepentant, unjust, abusive behavior toward Harry and others, though, so I don't adore him the way others do.

[Guest]

Yes, Snape could be the hero character of his own seven books. I did believe throughout that he was on the side of good, but I could never imagine how he would be able to use Occlumency against the Dark Lord.

 

I love Rickman in the movies, although he's getting a bit long in the tooth now.

[trulycrabby]

I've always had a soft spot for Snape, too. :o

[amyco]

I think Snape is the most interesting character in the whole series. 

[Mrs Mungo]

When I first read the 6th book; I was more upset about Snape's seeming betrayal than I was that Dumbledore died.

My sisters, cousin and I figured out the truth within hours after we all finished the book. We wore "Trust Snape" buttons to the next book release.

[JadeOrchidSong]

When I first read the 6th book; I was more upset about Snape's seeming betrayal than I was that Dumbledore died. When I read it again just before the 7th book came out, my opinion changed, and I knew things couldn't be what they seemed and he had to be one of the good guys. I was glad to find out the truth at the end and to see that he redeemed himself. I still didn't really forgive his unrepentant, unjust, abusive behavior toward Harry and others, though, so I don't adore him the way others do.

I see his abusive behavior as protecting Harry. Remember what happened to Sirius when You-Know-Who found out how close Harry was to him? Anyway, that is how I do not see Snape as very bad. However, Book 6 really stumbled me when Snape truly killed Dumboledore. I was waiting to find out that D was not really dead. Because of D's goodness, I trusted that Snape was good, but my faith was somewhat shaken. I waited eagerly for Snape to turn out good and he didn't disappoint. Harry didn't resent his abusive behavior towards him. He named his son Albus Severus. That was beautiful.

[JadeOrchidSong]

My sisters, cousin and I figured out the truth within hours after we all finished the book. We wore "Trust Snape" buttons to the next book release.

You rock! I probably would wear that button, too.

[JadeOrchidSong]

I cried big time when Sirius Black died because it reminded me of my own parents' death. I was very sad about Dobby's death. Rowling didn't spare any ink drawing out sorrow from her audience. But it took me forever to believe and accept Dumbledore's death. I was waiting for him to show up as alive for a very long time. However, Snape's death left a gaping hole in my heart because Rowling didn't say a word about how Harry or anyone felt about it and the empty space was deliberately left to the audience's mercy. I have found it both cruel and clever.

Snape was singularly the most intelligent, the most intricate man in the series. Potions, dark arts, occulumency, loyalty, camouflage of his true feelings: He owned them all.

My heart has this longing to see him, to talk with him. I love this dark-haired half-blood prince.

 

ETA: My feeling for Snape has nothing to do with Alan Rickman. I only saw Harry Potter 1 with Alan the actor in it yesterday, but I have felt this way before seeing the movie.

[JadeOrchidSong]

One more thing I want to add: I reserved Book 6 in Chinese by mistake. I flipped a few pages and returned it right away. The name translation can not get some of the Latin meanings across. My sons and I really appreciate the names.

[LucyStoner]

I knew Snape killing Dumbledore couldn't be as it was perceived by Harry and the Order of the Phoenix. I assumed as soon as I read it in Book 6 that it was part of Dumbledore's plan some how.

 

I think that Rowling could have fleshed out Snape's friendship with Lily a little more.

 

My older son read them in fall 2013 and started book 7 all but convinced that Snape was evil incarnate. But he did say to me that he had a "slight hope" that maybe Dumbledore and Snape were in on Dumbledore's death together. That

made me glad.

 

Of all the deaths during the battle at Hogwarts,

Snape's was the one that was the saddest to me. Lives his whole life as a mostly hated double agent and never gets to just be happy. I expected Lupin to die but I was so sad when Snape did.

[Word Nerd]

I see his abusive behavior as protecting Harry. Remember what happened to Sirius when You-Know-Who found out how close Harry was to him? Anyway, that is how I do not see Snape as very bad. 

 

I don't think it was all an act, though I've heard that argument before. I saw it primarily as a reflection of his hatred for James. I think it actually gives him more depth as a character to have this flaw. Harry reminds him so much of James and the fact that Harry is the product of his relationship with Lily that Snape can't help but lash out.

[AurieD]

To be honest I don't get the Snape love. I admit as a character he is certainly more interesting and complex than Harry. His actions against Voldemort are certainly praise worthy. He sacrificed a lot, ultimately his life, but he was still a cruel man who bullied children unmercifully. I don't think he was protecting Harry, he truly hated him mostly because of who his father was. If the bullying had been less extreme and only increased when it started to become apparent Voldemort was returning I could buy the 'protecting Harry' line, or more really protecting his position as a double agent, but as it is written I don't see this.

 

The story provides insights into how he became like that, and this gives me a certain amount of compassion for him but it doesn't excuse it and it doesn't make me like him.

[madteaparty]

I loved Snape too, but was mostly overwhelmed by my dislike of James. He really had nothing to recommend him, did he?

[SadieMarie]

Lupin is the one who has my heart.  And not the Lupin from the movies, but the one I picture in my head when we listen to the books.  

 

[Mrs Mungo]

I didn't fall in love with Snape. I just felt Dumbledore had good reasons to trust him, and that Snape lived up to those expectations. Sirius (book Sirius) was my HP boyfriend. ;)

[KungFuPanda]

"Always."

[FaithManor]

I pretty much lost my fondness for the series when she killed of Sirius! In the movies, there was one scene with Snape that I very much related too...rolling up his sleeves and shoving Harry and Ron into their books out of frustration with the chattiness. With three teen boys that like to work together in the same room, I have felt his pain many times!

[SadieMarie]

I didn't fall in love with Snape. I just felt Dumbledore had good reasons to trust him, and that Snape lived up to those expectations. Sirius (book Sirius) was my HP boyfriend. ;)

 

Tsk tsk, bad boys will only break your heart.

[HRAAB]

For me Snape was the most real and most human of the characters.  From the first book, I knew there had to be much to him.  I never felt in love with his character, but I felt I could feel with him.  Snape is definitely my favorite character.

[TheReader]

I swear, his chapter in book 7 is my favorite single chapter in all of literature, ever. Love love love love love it. I bawl every time I read it, and have bawled all through that scene in the movies every single time we've watched it. His undying love for Lily, that single word, "always" even his very honest dislike of Harry but that he begrudgingly does things to keep Harry safe *even though he so dislikes Harry* because his love for Lily is *just.that.strong.*  Wow. 

 

 

[PinkInTheBlue]

I'm always fascinated by this conversation because I just don't see it. :)  Snape was a mean person that finally made some right

decisions and only grudgingly did for Harry what he did in an attempt to make up for not protecting Lily because he was busy being

a DEATH EATER.  :)  He hated Harry because he couldn't get over his understandable hatred for his dad.  James had a ridiculously

immature attitude as a teenager and was an idiot to Snape but, even though Rowling doesn't cover it in details, she's clear that

James changed.  Snape was an adult who never got over his past and he took it out on kids.  The only kids he liked were kids that

were in the path of being the next wave of Death Eaters.

 

I was glad to see he wasn't completely the total rat I thought he was but he was never redeemed to me. He's a bad guy.

[Pam in CT]

I think Snape is the most interesting character in the whole series. 

 

Me too.  Rawlings does a good job showing good/less good in a lot of characters - Harry's exasperating self absorption in Book 5, Sirius' casual mistreatment of Kreacher, Hermione's insufferability in the early books, Ron's many limitations, and of course the revelations about Dumbledore in the last book.  But Snape and, to a lesser but intriguing extent the Malfoys, are ultimately the most interesting.

 

My sisters, cousin and I figured out the truth within hours after we all finished the book. We wore "Trust Snape" buttons to the next book release.

 

Yes.  We'd worked out a rather different resolution that we repeated to each other repeatedly for the 18 endless months between books 6 and 7 ... (ours was based on the statement "the best evidence for the proposition that Dumbledore isn't really dead is... that Gandalf wasn't really dead" LOL).  But we never lost the faith.

 

I knew Snape killing Dumbledore couldn't be as it was perceived by Harry and the Order of the Phoenix. I assumed as soon as I read it in Book 6 that it was part of Dumbledore's plan some how.

 

<snip>

 

Of all the deaths during the battle at Hogwarts,

Snape's was the one that was the saddest to me. Lives his whole life as a mostly hated double agent and never gets to just be happy. I expected Lupin to die but I was so sad when Snape did.

 

So sad.  That (tentative) camaraderie he had with the Order was the closest to friendship he'd ever experienced.  And he lost that, too.

 

What is it that Harry says in the epilogue?  The bravest man I ever knew.

 

I loved Snape too, but was mostly overwhelmed by my dislike of James. He really had nothing to recommend him, did he?

 

Yeah, James.  Really, nothing, except he could catch a Snitch!

[Kathryn]

Snape ended up being my favorite character, not as in I liked him best, but as in being the most thought-provoking. I had a feeling about him all along. I read the books for the first time this time last year while DS was reading them. I read one each day, so I didn't have a lot of time to ponder about what might happen in the next one or where things were going. But, I had a feeling that there was more to Snape than what was going on on the surface and started to get very concerned in Book 6. I do wish that the Malfoys had been fleshed out a bit more. I think there was a lot that could have been done there as well.

[Lady Florida.]

To be honest I don't get the Snape love. I admit as a character he is certainly more interesting and complex than Harry. His actions against Voldemort are certainly praise worthy. He sacrificed a lot, ultimately his life, but he was still a cruel man who bullied children unmercifully. I don't think he was protecting Harry, he truly hated him mostly because of who his father was. If the bullying had been less extreme and only increased when it started to become apparent Voldemort was returning I could buy the 'protecting Harry' line, or more really protecting his position as a double agent, but as it is written I don't see this.

 

The story provides insights into how he became like that, and this gives me a certain amount of compassion for him but it doesn't excuse it and it doesn't make me like him.

 

 

I'm always fascinated by this conversation because I just don't see it. :)  Snape was a mean person that finally made some right

decisions and only grudgingly did for Harry what he did in an attempt to make up for not protecting Lily because he was busy being

a DEATH EATER.  :)  He hated Harry because he couldn't get over his understandable hatred for his dad.  James had a ridiculously

immature attitude as a teenager and was an idiot to Snape but, even though Rowling doesn't cover it in details, she's clear that

James changed.  Snape was an adult who never got over his past and he took it out on kids.  The only kids he liked were kids that

were in the path of being the next wave of Death Eaters.

 

I was glad to see he wasn't completely the total rat I thought he was but he was never redeemed to me. He's a bad guy.

 

You both expressed my feelings about Snape. I'll just add two more things:

 

Snape was willing to let Voldemort kill Harry and James. It was only when Dumbledore called him on it that he agreed they should all be protected. 

 

Snape's love for Lily wasn't love. It was stalker-ish obsession. It was unhealthy and downright creepy.

 

Okay, three things. :) JK Rowling doesn't like him either.

 

 

[Indian summer]

He is a great character and I'm with the love Snape club and here is why:

 

He made some really dumb mistakes in judgement  when he was young. And while I'm nowhere near as evil as a death eater, I do have a past, so I get it. The vast majority of people surrounding him, believe he is still THAT bad. That's hard to live through and be all cheery and good. Plus, he knew lives depended on him being viewed a certain way so he had to live 'in character.' He couldn't ever let anyone see him all gushy toward anyone - again, he was aware that lives depended on this.

 

I see him as a martyr. Not just that he gave his life for the good of the rest, but he sacrificed every single day - keeping people at bay to protect THEM. Was he mean to kids? Yes, but, again, he drew his lines in the sand. He was committed to protecting this kid that happened to look just like James, who treated him so badly. And consider the difference between the meanness he directed at the students and the meanness Umbridge directed at the students. His approach almost seemed like it was intended to toughen kids up and take responsibility and ultimately he saved harry's life, so he didn't want to harm him. Some of his choices seem questionable - like telling Voldemort when Harry was being moved, but what else could he do to have Voldemort's trust which he knew was crucial. 

 

I think he suffered a lot because he was never able to let anyone in. It's a sacrifice he made for Lily and for the Magical World. How can that be bad?

[JadeOrchidSong]

Indian Summer,

I agree with everything you said about Snape. That is why he has my respect. He made everyone believe he was bad and lost all the trust and friendship of the Order in the end. He must have been the loneliest person. He was the bravest and suffered the biggest sacrifice. That is why the love for him.

I know people interprete this differently. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[PinkInTheBlue]

Fun conversation :)

[Guest]

Indian Summer,

I agree with everything you said about Snape. That is why he has my respect. He made everyone believe he was bad and lost all the trust and friendship of the Order in the end. He must have been the loneliest person. He was the bravest and suffered the biggest sacrifice. That is why the love for him.

I know people interprete this differently. We will just have to agree to disagree.

Yes, I feel similarly. Also, Snape was an outcast at school as a child and we have inklings that his parents were abusive and neglectful. It is true that Hurt People hurt people. Those least deserving of love need it the most and Snape was never able to get that love. He died as snake food at the hand of the evil he had double-agented against. His tale is terribly real.

[athomeontheprairie]

I loved reading this post. for a book series that end,ed quite some time ago, we all still have an emotional connection to the characters. if that isn't what makes literature great I'm not sure what does.

[Venia]

I am definitely on team Snape. I absolutely adore the Byronic heroes. Darcy and Mr. Rochester are two more you may be familiar with ;). They appeal to me to be because they are flawed, they are very real, and most often over-looked gems of humanity and passion.

[Slartibartfast]

I am one of the sisters that wore a "I trust Snape" button.

 

I never believed Dumbledore would have begged for his life, I knew that there more to it than what Harry saw. Harry never really had a good eye for subtleties.

[LucyStoner]

Snape can be a bully and a selfish, damaged person who made crappy choices as a young person while still being good in other ways and making heroic choices later on. Also many of the times it looks like Snape is being mean he is actually helping.

 

There is a reason Darth Vaders are more interesting than Luke Skywalkers.

[poppy]

I am one of the sisters that wore a "I trust Snape" button.

 

I never believed Dumbledore would have begged for his life, I knew that there more to it than what Harry saw. Harry never really had a good eye for subtleties.

 

When I read that scene, I couldn't believe there were people who DID NOT get it.  Or how awful that was for Snape.

James was a real jerk to Snape.  Those background scenes were incredibly revealing. I thought making James a bully made the series far more complex than the pretty  obvious Snape-as-triple-agent thing.

[SunnyDays]

I agree that Snape was among the most fleshed-out and human characters of the book, more so in some ways even than Harry.  I admit I wanted him to be on the side of good, but went through periods of doubt.  (Well, as long a period as possible considering I couldn't put the books down and read all seven books in less than two weeks.)  Like some of you, I kept thinking Dumbledore couldn't possibly be gone... that it was all a trick somehow. 

 

And while I do see the redeeming parts of his sacrifice and contributions to good along the way... I agree there was something unhealthy about his love/obsession/fixation for Lily.  But still.... "Always".... gets me every time.

 

[Lady Florida.]

I absolutely adore the Byronic heroes. 

 

And I don't. I wonder if the Snape lovers/haters line up this way? That would be interesting to find out.

 

The brooding moodiness that usually comes with a Byronic hero makes me want to yell at him through the pages of my books, "Oh grow up. Things happen to people and they get over it. Now get over it." Fortunately they don't hear me, because many of my favorite classics include such characters. 

[LucyStoner]

When I read that scene, I couldn't believe there were people who DID NOT get it.

Well, let's not forget the audience for the books is children. Children tend to think a little more black and white and would be more likely to relate primarily to Harry and his view than to Dumbledore or another adult character.

[Lady Florida.]

I will admit that I felt sorry for him when he was dying. No one should have to die like he did, not even someone like him. 

[LucyStoner]

And I don't. I wonder if the Snape lovers/haters line up this way? That would be interesting to find out.

 

The brooding moodiness that usually comes with a Byronic hero makes me want to yell at him through the pages of my books, "Oh grow up. Things happen to people and they get over it. Now get over it." Fortunately they don't hear me, because many of my favorite classics include such characters.

I wouldn't say that I "love" Snape but I am definitely sympathetic to him. I am certainly not in the Byronic hero fanclub. At all. Mr. Darcy? I would have sent him packing.

[Annie]

I agree that Snape had a very sad and lonely life. I don't really *like* him, but I do think he's the best character.

 

One of my favorite lines in the series is when Dumbledore says to Snape that sometimes he thinks they sort too soon. Snape came from a home where there doesn't seem to have been much love. He father seemed boarderline abusive, and he was desperate for friends. I agree that he attached himself to Lily in a creepy, boarderline stalkerish way, but he was starved for affection and lacking in good relationship role models. He came to school, damaged and desperate to be accepted, where he was then immediately placed among those that would become Death Eaters. His choice was to continue to live as an outcast for the next seven years or to join in with the future Death Eaters and have instant friends. It's the very rare 11-13 year old boy that would pick being an outcast.

 

If he had been sorted into Gryffindor or Ravenclaw, his life could have taken such a different turn. The sorting hat caught him at a bad time in his life, and he paid the price for it. What if he had two years to mature and grow outside the shadow of his difficult home life before he was pigeon holed? Sometimes I think we sort too soon.

[Pam in CT]

What a great thread!  Brings back fond memories of the days before the last few books were out, going on long walks with my kids and speculating on how all the issues were going to be resolved...

 

Snape can be a bully and a selfish, damaged person who made crappy choices as a young person while still being good in other ways and making heroic choices later on. Also many of the times it looks like Snape is being mean he is actually helping.

There is a reason Darth Vaders are more interesting than Luke Skywalkers.

 

I don't know that he really was a bully -- my kids and I went through those scenes line by line (yeah, I know, a little obsessive), and a case can be made each time that he was protecting Harry and/or keeping his own cover (given that Voldemort was either actually there, inside Quirrel's head, or virtually there via his trusted servants Wormtail or Crouch, or able to intrude into Harry's head) in just about all of the notable scenes.  Umbridge -- that's what horrific teacher bullying looks like.  He certainly was damaged.

 

And it wasn't just crappy choices.  Snape was abused as a child at home, and then truly, maliciously bullied at school.  He was never loved, and Rawlings is all about the redemptive power of love.  Neville's grandmother was rather a witch in the early years in terms of how she actually behaved toward him, but she still, ultimately, loved him.  The extent to which we see tantalizing glimmers of redemption in the Malfoys are all related to the constant, indisputable fact that whatever their many faults and mistakes: they love each other.

 

 

When I read that scene, I couldn't believe there were people who DID NOT get it.  Or how awful that was for Snape.

James was a real jerk to Snape.  Those background scenes were incredibly revealing. I thought making James a bully made the series far more complex than the pretty  obvious Snape-as-triple-agent thing.

 

Yes.  Who wants perfect one dimensional caricatures of heroism?  James is mostly a jerk.

 

I agree that Snape was among the most fleshed-out and human characters of the book, more so in some ways even than Harry. 

 

<snip>

 

And while I do see the redeeming parts of his sacrifice and contributions to good along the way... I agree there was something unhealthy about his love/obsession/fixation for Lily.  But still.... "Always".... gets me every time.

 

Yes.  His love for Lily is obsessive, unhealthy, stalker-y.  Of course, he didn't get her, and then she died, so who knows how his life might have turned out, had his love been reciprocated.  But he was damaged, early, and then later, and then again; and he never does come out healthy.  Smart, and very, very brave, but never healthy...

[LucyStoner]

What a great thread! Brings back fond memories of the days before the last few books were out, going on long walks with my kids and speculating on how all the issues were going to be resolved...

 

 

I don't know that he really was a bully -- my kids and I went through those scenes line by line (yeah, I know, a little obsessive), and a case can be made each time that he was protecting Harry and/or keeping his own cover (given that Voldemort was either actually there, inside Quirrel's head, or virtually there via his trusted servants Wormtail or Crouch, or able to intrude into Harry's head) in just about all of the notable scenes. Umbridge -- that's what horrific teacher bullying looks like. He certainly was damaged.

 

And it wasn't just crappy choices. Snape was abused as a child at home, and then truly, maliciously bullied at school. He was never loved, and Rawlings is all about the redemptive power of love. Neville's grandmother was rather a witch in the early years in terms of how she actually behaved toward him, but she still, ultimately, loved him.

Snape has instances of bullying Hermione, Ron and Fred and George. There was no enmity between Snape and the Weasleys or Grangers (obviously). And Neville. Picking on Neville is just mean.

 

As for crappy choices, becoming a death eater is a crappy choice. Lots of abused children (myself included) go on to not make that kind of crappy decision. He could have chosen differently, no matter his abusive background.

 

Also, I disagree that his love of Lily was entirely stalkerish. They were childhood friends, best friends. She did return his friendship as a child until he headed towards being Death Eater and until he insulted her in his anger at James and embarrassment.

 

I don't think that James' transformation is fleshed out enough. He obviously had good- both to save Snape (it was Sirius' trick, not James), join the Order, fall in love with Lily and fight against Voldemort. I don't think he could be all one dimensional selfish lout. The fact that he was a cocky bully as a teenager doesn't write the whole tale of his life anymore than Snape becoming a Death Eater writes the whole tale of his life. It is not all that uncommon for people with some good qualities, even many good qualities, to have a blind spot of hate with someone they just clash with. Snape and James were unevenly matched rivals and at times mutually nasty to each other. I don't get the James hate. He was an imperfect kid with a lot of privileges but he was a good friend to Lupin and Sirius and Peter and by all accounts a good husband and father and member of the Order of Phoenix. If being arrogant as a teenager makes someone a one dimensional and bad person, then I suspect the world (and WTM board, lol) is full of one dimensional bad people.

[Slartibartfast]

I will grant him being surly with Fred and George, they had probably done something, were thinking about doing something, or about to do something.

[LucyStoner]

I will grant him being surly with Fred and George, they had probably done something, were thinking about doing something, or about to do something.

True enough.

 

Outing Lupin though was a prat move.

[Pam in CT]

Snape has instances of bullying Hermione, Ron and Fred and George. There was no enmity between Snape and the Weasleys or Grangers (obviously). And Neville. Picking on Neville is just mean.

 

As for crappy choices, becoming a death eater is a crappy choice. Lots of abused children (myself included) go on to not make that kind of crappy decision. He could have chosen differently, no matter his abusive background.

 

Also, I disagree that his love of Lily was entirely stalkerish. They were childhood friends, best friends. She did return his friendship as a child until he headed towards being Death Eater and until he insulted her in his anger at James and embarrassment.

 

I don't think that James' transformation is fleshed out enough. He obviously had good- both to save Snape (it was Sirius' trick, not James), join the Order, fall in love with Lily and fight against Voldemort. I don't think he could be all one dimensional selfish lout. The fact that he was a cocky bully as a teenager doesn't write the whole tale of his life anymore than Snape becoming a Death Eater writes the whole tale of his life. It is not all that uncommon for people with some good qualities, even many good qualities, to have a blind spot of hate with someone they just clash with. Snape and James were unevenly matched rivals and at times mutually nasty to each other. I don't get the James hate. He was an imperfect kid with a lot of privileges but he was a good friend to Lupin and Sirius and Peter and by all accounts a good husband and father and member of the Order of Phoenix. If being arrogant as a teenager makes someone a one dimensional and bad person, then I suspect the world (and WTM board, lol) is full of one dimensional bad people.

 

Oh gracious, I agree he made crappy choices!  One especially, life altering-ly crappy choice in particular!  And while I do believe than much of his Harry- and Harry's-friend- and Griffindor-generally targeting should be seen as acting a role, literally the role of his life, which he could not drop for one moment, he still is, clearly, a flawed and damaged soul.

 

One of the strengths of the series (as opposed, for example, to LOTR or the Narnia books, which for all their excellent qualities are rife with one-dimensional characters) is that virtually all the HP characters have a mix of good and less-good in them (Voldemort being the notably unredeemable exception), and the theme of people who've made poor early choices getting the chance to make later better choices is rampant throughout (Snape, but also Regulus, Slughorn, Percy, and Narcissa).  Presumably James did as well.  No James hate here -- we don't see his transformation, but he must have had one, or why would Lily go for him?

[Guest]

True, the theme of Redemption is woven throughout. Look how Neville grew from a bumbling nobody! Dobby abandons his masters in a bold move that is NEVER done by those of his station. Luna starts out as an oddball, but ends up with critical information about the diadem.

[JadeOrchidSong]

I read HP 1 and 2 in 2001. I only finished reading HP 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 in Dec. and Jan., two three weeks ago. That is why my emotions are running strong. My boys also just read them. I cannot imagine the waiting agony when you read them as they were published.

[Lady Florida.]

 

 

One of the strengths of the series (as opposed, for example, to LOTR or the Narnia books, which for all their excellent qualities are rife with one-dimensional characters) is that virtually all the HP characters have a mix of good and less-good in them (Voldemort being the notably unredeemable exception), and the theme of people who've made poor early choices getting the chance to make later better choices is rampant throughout (Snape, but also Regulus, Slughorn, Percy, and Narcissa).  Presumably James did as well.  No James hate here -- we don't see his transformation, but he must have had one, or why would Lily go for him?

 

Even Dumbledore had a moment in time when he needed to make a choice of which way to go. The incident and death Ariana tipped him in the direction of good, but who knows what he would have done if that never happened.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Oh gracious, I agree he made crappy choices! One especially, life altering-ly crappy choice in particular! And while I do believe than much of his Harry- and Harry's-friend- and Griffindor-generally targeting should be seen as acting a role, literally the role of his life, which he could not drop for one moment, he still is, clearly, a flawed and damaged soul.

 

One of the strengths of the series (as opposed, for example, to LOTR or the Narnia books, which for all their excellent qualities are rife with one-dimensional characters) is that virtually all the HP characters have a mix of good and less-good in them (Voldemort being the notably unredeemable exception), and the theme of people who've made poor early choices getting the chance to make later better choices is rampant throughout (Snape, but also Regulus, Slughorn, Percy, and Narcissa). Presumably James did as well. No James hate here -- we don't see his transformation, but he must have had one, or why would Lily go for him?

So well said, Pam! The multiple and mixed dimensions of the characters' personality/qualities IS truly what makes these books so singularly appealing. They are rich and real. We can resonate with and see ourselves in them.

I also don't like James' obnoxious behavior towards Snape, which obviously was disturbing to Harry. But all his friends vouched for his goodness, so he must have been good in many other ways. I do trust that he was a loyal friend, a loving father, and a good husband. I do not hate him, but I was disgusted by his nasty treatment to Snape. As a pp says, they must have had clash and didn't get along.

[myfunnybunch]

 I cannot imagine the waiting agony when you read them as they were published.

 

It was torture.

 

I remember sitting under the tree in the back yard for two days, with a baby on the blanket next to me, reading and reading and reading when...5?....6?....6, I think, came out. (I'm pretty sure I did other things, like change diapers and feed the short folk in my house, but honestly, all I can remember is reading on the blanket under the tree for two sunny days.)

 

It was delightfully satisfying, also, finally getting to read the next bit of the story.

 

Cat