teen daughter being marginalized by group of longtime friends, wwyd if anything?

[hsbeth]

I'm trying to decide how or if to intervene...

 

My dd (about to be 16) has a group of friends from co-op. They've been friends for years and we've never had drama before this year. She has one strong individual friendship that is separate from this group, but these kids are her primary circle of friends. It's a group of six kids, 4 boys and 2 girls. All are home schooled high school students.

 

Last spring the other girl in the group began to have feelings for the one of the boys and expressed them to my daughter. Dd did suggest some caution to the other girl because she is significantly older than her "crush" (2 grades, but almost 3 years older) and how dd loved the platonic friendships that the whole group had. They didn't argue, dd just said she'd advise caution.

 

This year the situation has been increasingly difficult for dd. The other girl has really been "pursuing" the other boy all fall and has deliberately (it seems) been marginalizing dd by intentionally creating some discord. I wonder if perhaps she felt that dd discouraged the relationship because of some jealously, but I know dd does not have romantic feelings for this boy or any of the others. Lately she's become more outspoken about it. Dd has received some bragging and borderline unkind texts from this girl concerning the boy and the girl has begun to purposely suggest making plans with some of the other kids that do not include dd. Monday this girl, who is the only driver in the group, invited everyone BUT dd out to eat and to a movie Thursday night in front of her. My husband was the only adult present as this happened at the homeschool chem. lab that he teaches of which all of this group are members. There are other members of the class, but the only non-invitee left when the invitation was extended was my dd. Yesterday at co-op she made a point of bringing up the outing with my dd privately and said to her that she was trying to decide whether it would be better to go to X restaurant or Y restaurant before they all went to the movie. :( The other girl often mentions to my daughter that the only reason she hangs around with any of them is because of this particular boy she is interested in.

 

I am not one to think my children are faultless, and if it were any one of my other girls I would be suspect that there may be more to the story or that my dd must have had some hand in the friction, but this particular dd is just one of those uber kind souls just does not engage in mean or dramatic behavior. She's genuinely hurt. I think she's been wanting a shoulder to cry on, but I'm also wondering if I shouldn't speak with another parent in our group about this. Dd is beginning dual enrollment classes this spring and has to decide within the next couple of weeks whether or not she's going to take spring classes at co-op and this is becoming a huge factor in her decision. If she decides not to return I know that I'll be asked why (our family is on leadership at co-op and has participated for years).  I could certainly say that she made the decision because of her dual-enrollment classes, but that really would not be true. If she leaves it would be because of the social issue.

 

I don't believe that any of the other group members are consciously pushing dd away, but because it is a boy heavy group it has always been the two girls who have driven it socially if that makes sense. The other girl has been unusually manipulative this year and it appears that she may have been saying that dd doesn't want to be included, etc.

 

I know all of the parents fairly well. I know the parents of the boy in question best (I run with his mom every morning). I am the least comfortable with the parents of the girl for a variety of reasons. The easiest thing for me to do would be to speak with my running partner. I know that this relationship is not one that she would normally encourage (not big on teen dating) but she has some major issues going on this fall that have kept her unusually distracted. Also, she is extremely discreet whereas the mom of the other girl involved is not.

 

Is approaching either mom a reasonable option? Other thoughts?

 

Perhaps I could approach this as a manners issue? Manners are huge in this crowd and I do know for certain that none of the parents involved would be on board with invitations conveyed in an exclusive manner, etc. Honestly, if it wasn't so blatant and dd just "heard" that they had gotten together etc. she'd probably be equally hurt, but I'd be less likely to want to intervene.

 

 

[kewb]

Personally, I would not involve the other parents.  I would encourage my daughter to expand her social circle and move on from the drama.  As for being asked why you are not returning, you do not owe anyone an explanation.  Anything you say or do about the situation will increase the drama and make things more unpleasant.

[Anne in CA]

I probably would talk to the boy's mother, just because she probably needs to be aware that the girl is not harmless. Well, I would want to know. I like it when a mom tells me what is going on with my kids that may not be on my radar, so I would discretely tell the boy's mother how much this girl likes him. I think that the parents of the boy need to have a heads up.

 

I also would not lie when asked why we left the coop. I would tell them that your dd is hurt to be deliberately excluded constantly. But I wouldn't make a fuss of any kind or expect anyone to make changes. This is generally the time when kids this age "reset" socially and make big changes. It was bound to happen. Your dd will probably do better in a new environment right now anyway.

[ErinE]

This is tough. I might discuss this problem with a close friend, but more for the potential advice I could give dd, not a parent intervention.

 

I think your dd needs to practice standing up for herself. At 16, unless she was in physical danger, the parents shouldn't get involved. If the mean girl continues to extend exclusive invitations in front of your dd, encourage your dd to say something. What mean girl is doing is rude, and I think this an occasion to point it out. "You mean I'm not invited to this event that you just invited everyone else to, in front of me?" Wait for answer. It may not stop the exclusive invites, but I'd hope it would stop them from being issued in her hearing.

 

Friendships end, especially as teens explore romantic feelings. As sad as it may make your dd, perhaps she needs to let this relationship go. Your dd can still get together with the other teens, but on her own terms.

 

If your dd wants to continue the coop, encourage her to do so. As adults, we sometimes have to work with unpleasant people. If she chooses to leave, I would just tell the leadership that it didn't work out, leaving out the problems with mean girl.

[bettyandbob]

At 16, I haven't talked much to parents of my dd's friends in a couple years. I know who they are, we chat at mutual activities, but I don't talk to parents about social problems among the kids.

 

I would let dd make the decision about dual enrollment or co-op. I would support her decision. Your dd may have outgrown her need for co-op and the social crap just underscores it. Why would you need to say anything further than she decided to take dual enrollment classes.

 

There may be some time as your dd reestablishes herself socially, when she is depressed about the change. I would look for other activities and outlets. Ramp up involvement in a hobby or community service project she'd been in and do the extra fun mom - dd activity once in a while as a treat while she finds footing again.

 

Note: I would bring up more serious issues I'd heard about with other parents. From what you've described everyday manipulative teen girl stuff doesn't rise to that.

[Trish]

If the girl doesn't want to be your DD's friend anymore, you can't force that. And I guess I'd eliminate the boy that the other girl is interested in due to the drama involved. But there's no reason she can't continue being friends with the other 3 boys, is there? If she wants to do something with them she can suggest it. You could drive.

[kroe1]

This problem will take care of itself as your DD starts CC. She will make new friends in her new environment.

[Starr]

In my experience no one else will care. Move on realizing it will likely impact how she views herself in a group with a difficult girl in the future. She needs some coaching. As an old person its weird to me that girls don't tell off the mean girl. It's not like they just met or anything. Like "Why do you keep talking about something I'm not invited to? It's impolite and I don't want to hear about it. "We had quite a terrible situation in our group that will be forever painful.

[Wildcat]

Due to the ages of the kids, I would not say anything to the parents. I think that would be strange. 

 

If your dd is starting cc, let her decide if she wants to continue at the co-op. If the answer is 'no', do what you need to do to extricate yourselves. No explanation is necessary. If asked/pressed for one, you can be honest in that there was social friction this year and your dd is going to cc, so between those two things, the co-op just won't work anymore.

 

Could the friend be jealous that your dd is starting at the cc? Excluding your dd the way you described smells like some sort of jealousy to me.

 

 

[linders]

You should stay out of it, just be a sounding board for DD. And the "mean girl" is likely to reap what she sows - a group of 4 guys and just 1 girl is likely to fall apart, especially when it becomes clear "mean girl" is after one of the guys.

[hsbeth]

I probably would talk to the boy's mother, just because she probably needs to be aware that the girl is not harmless. Well, I would want to know. I like it when a mom tells me what is going on with my kids that may not be on my radar, so I would discretely tell the boy's mother how much this girl likes him. I think that the parents of the boy need to have a heads up.

 

I also would not lie when asked why we left the coop. I would tell them that your dd is hurt to be deliberately excluded constantly. But I wouldn't make a fuss of any kind or expect anyone to make changes. This is generally the time when kids this age "reset" socially and make big changes. It was bound to happen. Your dd will probably do better in a new environment right now anyway.

 

 

This was one of my genuine concerns, but it's been hard to separate it emotionally from my dd's issue so I've held off in speaking to her about it and lately dd's hurt has been more my focus. The girl is a very savvy teen about to turn 17 and the boy is a very young 14. The boy has been a bit more sheltered than the girl also. We have occasion to witness some of their interactions at chem lab and he is ill equipped to deal with all of this attention from the older girl.  Mom has had a real shake-up with their family routine, a positive one in fact, but it has caused her to be slightly less engaged with her older kids than usual.

 

I think, that if roles were reversed, I'd want the other mom to come to me. I would appreciate being clued in to a potential issue with one of my kids as long is was handled tactfully and discreetly and that the motives behind it were pure. I've had some concern that my motives, in small part, would be selfish so I've held off.

 

Yes, dd does need to get better about standing up for herself. She has lots of self- confidence but is just the type to be overly generous when dealing with people, even those who are difficult. She is great at standing up for the underdog and I think she just hoped that someone else in the group would stand up for her, but based on the dynamics involved I think much of this is happening behind the scenes, the boys are being manipulated and don't realize it. It may be time for her to take a bolder approach, I think I will encourage that.

 

I truly appreciate everyone's thoughts.

[Tap]

Do not involve parents in your daughters portion of this situation. DD is not the victim, she is allowing herself to be pushed out without a fight. (If she was being victimized, I would have a different answer).  She either needs to say something to the girl when she is ostracizing your dd, right in front of her.... or if she is too meek to do so, get one of the guys to stand up for her.  She has to start figuring this out for herself and negotiating social situations takes experience and practice.....this is a great chance for her to do so. 

 

As far as the classes, let her choose.  She can either allow herself to be pushed out of the group and find new friends, or hold her ground and not let one person in a group of six to decide her fate. These are not strangers, these are her friends. Get the other kids on board with sticking up for her when she is not around, but she really needs to stand up for herself when she is there to do so. 

 

  If she wants to move on, then a simple answer of "she was ready to try something different" is sufficient.  I would not tell people of my daughters personal social-dynamic issues.  

 

If you want to say something to the mom about the boy/girl dynamic, do so independent of your daughters issue.

[datgh]

If I was the Mom of the fourteen year old boy, I would definitely want to know.  My fourteen year old daughter was blindsided this year by an older boy (16 years old) having a big interest in her.  She had no idea how to handle it so she didn't say anything until she was in so deep it was almost a disaster.  Luckily his parents found out about it, saw what was happening and came and talked to us. I can't thank them enough. That young man at your coop probably could use some adult guidance in this situation otherwise he could really get hurt.  I know my daughter was hurt badly by the whole experience because she was just not ready for it. I would give the Mom of the boy a heads up especially since you seem to be very friendly with her. 

[Um_2_4]

Egads, I was that 16yo girl in a big mixed group who got pushed aside due to some boy/girl situations that developed that I was oblivious to :tongue_smilie: . I really had no clue till the other shoe fell and it was all said and done. And this was in public HS, so I was spending most of the day around them LOL. I did retain a few individual friendships on the side out of our group of 14 , but those did not last past the summer after our 1st year of college.

Man I wish my parents had homeschooled me :001_rolleyes: .... anyways....that is another topic....

Listen to your daughter and if she is ready to move on, let her. I had no interest in teen drama/soap operas :svengo:  and was relieved to get started with college.

Teach you daughter to say something about the impolite invitations if you wish (kind of wish my parents held helped me deal with confrontation better). THat will help her later in life I am sure.

And if the boys mum is your friend, give her a heads up...I sure hope someone in the future would if some older girl set her sites on DS9.  That is a pretty big age difference at that age, 14-17.

[Danestress]

I think you should limit your involvement to just coaching and advising your daughter on

how she might want to handle the situation.

 

I don't get the feeling from your post that your friend's son is in kind of danger or is having lies spread about him. So I would leave it be.

 

I would encourage your daughter to be her own defender and advocate.

[ErinE]

I think, that if roles were reversed, I'd want the other mom to come to me. I would appreciate being clued in to a potential issue with one of my kids as long is was handled tactfully and discreetly and that the motives behind it were pure. I've had some concern that my motives, in small part, would be selfish so I've held off.

What do you want the other mother to do? Tell her daughter to be nice? Do you think it will change anything other than fostering more ill will on the part of the mean girl? I really don't see adult intervention helping the situation.

 

When I was 16, my parents neither spoke on my behalf to my friends nor my friends' parents. I would have been mortified had they done so. I would have felt like they didn't trust my ability to handle the problem myself.

 

Both your dd and the girl are two years from being an adult, and I think it's an age where your dd needs to practice handling difficult relationships herself. You should be a sounding board and help your dd process her feelings.

[Alessandra]

I would take the situation seriously, because being ignored/marginalized is a type of bullying that girls do, and it can be bad for the one who is bullied. I don't have practical advice, but I would watch the video Odd Girl Out with my dd and/or read the book. 

[goldberry]

Similar situation with my DD, where a certain girl was inviting others and talking about outings while excluding DD standing right there.  After much internal debate, I expressed to DD that she should not just stand there but say something..I role modeled a shocked expression and a an incredulous, "Wow, seriously?  You're standing here talking in front of me about something I'm not invited to?  Sheesh, glad I have some manners..."  or something similar.

 

I wanted SO BADLY to go to this girls mom.  But I realized that I could really do nothing about the poor excluding behavior, although I was prepared to step in and ask her to remind her daughter that talking about something in front of the uninvited was incredibly rude and in poor taste.

 

I did not need to do so, DD spoke up in one of the situations, and at very least they did stop talking about it.  The exclusion carries on and I'm helping DD deal with it.

 

PS :grouphug:  It's heartbreaking I know...

[ErinE]

PS :grouphug: It's heartbreaking I know...

Yes, it stinks that your dd and you are in this situation. None of my advice is meant to dismiss the hurt that is being inflicted by the mean girl's actions.

[plansrme]

I had an almost identical situation come up with my 13 year old daughter and her 14 year old friends.  In this case, as with yours, one bad apple spoiled the bunch, and my daughter, who is famously non-dramatic, was caught in the middle and was ostracized by the "in" crowd.  This was with her swim team, and as with your daughter, it was her primary social outlet.  She swam with these kids nine times a week.  For that and other reasons, we chose to change teams.  The practice group with which she swims now is comprised entirely of older boys and girls, from 2-4 years older than her, and she adores them.  They are kind to her, one of the senior girls has taken her under her wing, and she could not be happier.  She knows they are older than she is; they know she is 13; but it is an entirely different atmosphere.  The point of this little tale is that I did not realize how much the drama and the alienation affected her until, suddenly, it didn't.  The light came back on inside her.  A lot of the personality changes I attributed to being 13 were not, in fact, due to being 13; they were due to the stress of being in that situation twice a day for hours on end.  So I would not expect the girl in question to change regardless of what you say or don't say to parents; and I would fully support her moving on.

[trlt]

My first thought would be to let your dd handle the situation. However, I think I would mention the interest the savvy girl has in the 14 yo boy to his mom. I say that because I have two boys and I would have wanted to know if that had happened when they were 14. One of my boys could have handled the situation but my other son would not have known how to deal with an older girl and I would have wanted to know so I could make sure had the tools necessary to handle that type of situation. So, I wouldn't suggest talking to the savvy girl's parents but I would mention her interest in the boy to his mom.

[Joanne]

Do not contact the other parents. Encourage your dd to do dual credit and move on as needed for healthy relationships.

[Word Nerd]

This problem will take care of itself as your DD starts CC. She will make new friends in her new environment.

I agree. It sounds like the friendship with this girl may have run its course. She may still be able to be friends with the boys even though the group dynamics are changing.

 

It's sad when people move on and the growing apart isn't mutual, but you can't make someone be a friend if she isn't interested in maintaining the relationship. I don't think involving the other parents would accomplish much. I'm sorry your DD is hurt, and I hope she makes new friends.

[J-rap]

Though it's sad when your children are in the midst of something like that, I think it's often the age (anywhere between 12 and 16) when old friendships part ways.  The parting is difficult and often sad because the child who is the one "left" often doesn't understand until later.

 

It sounds like it's time for your daughter to move on, and it definitely doesn't sound like a healthy friendship anymore anyway!  I think the best thing you can do is to be understanding but also try and take it lightly at the same time;  try not to let her spend too much time moping about it or analyzing it.  That's life!  Your daughter sounds far more mature than her friend, and she is better off moving on now and expanding her social circle with healthier, more mature friendships.

 

I don't think I'd even talk to the parents, because in the end, I think your daughter is better off moving on instead of trying to fix things. 

 

As far as what to tell people if she leaves the co-op.  Well, you can definitely say she wants to take classes at the community college now, but I don't think you have to completely hide the truth either.  I think you can kind of vaguely say that it didn't seem to be a very positive environment for your daughter anymore.  If parents ask more questions and you want to explain more, that's up to you.

 

All the best to you daughter! 

[Catwoman]

It's time to expand the circle well beyond 6 other kids. This is exactly why homeschooling in high school is a negative unless you can find a MUCH larger peer group somehow.

I'm sure there are plenty of public high school students whose group of friends contains no more than 6 other people.

[Catwoman]

If a savvy 17yo girl was actively pursuing my 14yo ds, I would definitely want to know.

 

You see the mom every day. Clue her in. (Don't mention a word about the trouble your dd is having with the other girl, though.)

 

As far as your dd goes, why doesn't she speak with the boys privately and ask them why she is intentionally being left out of group activities?

[ErinE]

I'm sure there are plenty of public high school students whose group of friends contains no more than 6 other people.

My high school had 3000 students. I considered only 4 or 5 people my good friends.

[hsbeth]

It's time to expand the circle well beyond 6 other kids. This is exactly why homeschooling in high school is a negative unless you can find a MUCH larger peer group somehow.

 

Dd has a peer group that is much larger than 6 kids total. She plays two different team sports, has a great small group at church, and has dozens of kids she is "friendly" with. The group referenced in my OP is just a group that she is close friends with and does a lot with socially. I'm sorry, but I totally disagree that this issue is at all related specifically to home schooling. I know very few folks that have more than a half dozen truly close friends.