Why is this against the Bible?

[melmichigan]

Would someone please help me explain to my DD10 why a parent would feel that the characters in The Seekers by Erin Hunter would be "against the Bible"?  A child in DD's class cannot read the series because the bear shape-shifts, it's paranormal fiction written for their age group.  No debates please, just help me clear this up for DD.  She is aware that people have different beliefs and wishes to better understand this view.

[Mrs Mungo]

Some people do not allow any paranormal or magical elements in their children's reading due to Biblical decrees against witchcraft.

[Orthodox6]

I have only your description, as I do not know the book.  The Bible does not address this topic, so I do not understand the uncomfortable parent.  I see no connection. . . .  The Bible does state explicitly to avoid sorcery, necromancy, etc.  Perhaps the parent is extrapolating from those clear prohibitions to include any type of fantasy.  There are some groups of Protestants which forbid fairy tales, myths, legends and so forth, by applying similar mental stretches.  

 

I hope this attempt to answer is not considered a controversial response.

[melmichigan]

Some people do not allow any paranormal or magical elements in their children's reading due to Biblical decrees against witchcraft.

 

I was leaning toward mythology as a possibility, I didn't even think of witchcraft.  OK, that makes sense.  Thanks!

[melmichigan]

I have only your description, as I do not know the book.  The Bible does not address this topic, so I do not understand the uncomfortable parent.  I see no connection. . . .  The Bible does state explicitly to avoid sorcery, necromancy, etc.  Perhaps the parent is extrapolating from those clear prohibitions to include any type of fantasy.  There are some groups of Protestants which forbid fairy tales, myths, legends and so forth, by applying similar mental stretches.  

 

I hope this attempt to answer is not considered a controversial response.

 

So it could be any fantasy genre?

[Jan in SC]

I don't know the novel, but does the bear talk? I remember being so surprised when people would post that they wouldn't allow their children to read things with talking animals because it wasn't biblical.

[Orthodox6]

So it could be any fantasy genre?

 

That is what I gather.  I never have belonged to that camp, though, so cannot speak with certainty. 

[Mrs Mungo]

So it could be any fantasy genre?

Yes, anything with magical elements. Some people won't even allow their kids to read Shakespeare because some of his works contain witches and magical elements.

[ajfries]

I have only your description, as I do not know the book.  The Bible does not address this topic, so I do not understand the uncomfortable parent.  I see no connection. . . .  The Bible does state explicitly to avoid sorcery, necromancy, etc.  Perhaps the parent is extrapolating from those clear prohibitions to include any type of fantasy.  There are some groups of Protestants which forbid fairy tales, myths, legends and so forth, by applying similar mental stretches.  

 

I hope this attempt to answer is not considered a controversial response.

I see what your saying. Here's the scriptures that I feel apply. I don't feel that I'm under these "laws" but rather the principle's that apply.

 

“You must not practice magic.â€â€”Leviticus 19:26.

 

“As for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail.â€â€”Leviticus 20:27.

“There should not be found in you . . . a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens or a sorcerer, or one who binds others with a spell or anyone who consults a spirit medium.â€â€”Deuteronomy 18:10-14.

 

Obviously reading a book that features such things isn't the same as doing it yourself, but for me, I avoid being "entertained" by things that God condemns. For example, I don't watch programs that "promote" murder, adultery, etc.

 

I'm not feeling particularly articulate this morning; forgive me if that seems disjointed. :)

[NicAnn]

Spiritism isnt allowed by many people. It depends on how strict the family is. Dh couldn't have magic, fairies, most disney movies-anything that might be under the Spiritism rule.

[NicAnn]

I see what your saying. Here's the scriptures that I feel apply. I don't feel that I'm under these "laws" but rather the principle's that apply.

 

“You must not practice magic.â€â€”Leviticus 19:26.

 

“As for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail.â€â€”Leviticus 20:27.

“There should not be found in you . . . a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens or a sorcerer, or one who binds others with a spell or anyone who consults a spirit medium.â€â€”Deuteronomy 18:10-14.

 

Obviously reading a book that features such things isn't the same as doing it yourself, but for me, I avoid being "entertained" by things that God condemns. For example, I don't watch programs that "promote" murder, adultery, etc.

 

I'm not feeling particularly articulate this morning; forgive me if that seems disjointed. :)

I totally agree. We also try to stay away from being entertained by what God condemns. Isn't there a verse in Hebrews too? I'll have to look around for the verse I'm specifically thinking of..

[MissKNG]

Some people do not allow any paranormal or magical elements in their children's reading due to Biblical decrees against witchcraft.

 

I would agree with this and it's probably that parent's personal conviction too.

[emzhengjiu]

For me, it also depends on the age of the child and how gullible the child is.  My older daughter has a scientist's mind and questions almost everything.  She was this way even when she was a little.  My younger daughter when she was little was the opposite.  She would believe any and everything.  Thankfully, she reasons well now.

[Saddlemomma]

Okay, with regard to necromancy - it is mentioned in Bible as "familiar spirits".  Following are instances in the Bible that maybe where the parents of this child are coming from:

 

Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I [am] the Lord your God.
Leviticus 19:31

 

When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things [are] an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12

 

And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
Isaiah 8:19

 

Ye shall not eat [any thing] with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.
Leviticus 19:26

 

And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
Leviticus 20:6

 

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Galatians 5:19-20

 

Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Revelation 22:14-15

 

Shape shifting is considered sorcery/magic and therefore not something to be encouraged or to revel in.  Some Christians see books of fantasy/magic as endorsing the prohibited activities themselves even if they don't practice such. Therefore, they abstain from such material and encourage their children to do the same.

 

I hope this helps with your explanation to your dd.

 

 

 

[WishboneDawn]

I don't know the novel, but does the bear talk? I remember being so surprised when people would post that they wouldn't allow their children to read things with talking animals because it wasn't biblical.

You should warn them to stay away from the Bible. Did they not read the bit where Balaam`s donkey talks?

[Jan in SC]

I don't know them! I've just seen questions from various posters.

[Scarlett]

You should warn them to stay away from the Bible. Did they not read the bit where Balaam`s donkey talks?

 

 

Or the snake in the Garden of Eden.  ;)

 

You can't read the Bible at all without reading all sorts of disturbing things....but my personal gauge, about other literature ( or movies)  is how the information is being presented.  Is it being glorified?  Condoned?  Is it graphic?  And is the 'magic' actual magic or a literary device? 

 

I didn't let my son watch a lot of stuff that falls under the 'not really magic' category until he was old enough to understand that it was a way to tell a story using imagination.

 

edited for clarity (it sounded like I had a gauge for whether or not I read the Bible!)

[Rosie_0801]

It seems kind of odd to be so careful to avoid the sort of witchcraft that most modern witches don't believe in. Occulus repairo would be handy. 

[MyThreeSons]

I know of families who will not allow The Chronicles of Narnia in their homes, because of the talking animals. And yet many Christian families love these books.

[melmichigan]

The responses have been very helpful, we will have an interesting discussion at dinner tonight.  Thanks!

[LucyStoner]

I think prohibiting talking animals knocks out basically all of young children's literature...

[goldberry]

Sometimes the line between "imagination" and "magic" is very subjective. As a Christian, I do try to avoid being entertained by things God condemns, as others have said.  On the other side, I believe we were created with imagination and a love of story-telling.  I personally stay away from anything with direct spiritism, witchcraft, etc.  I see "fantasy magic" a little bit differently.  But I understand why not everyone draws the line in the same place. 

[TravelingChris]

I think it is interesting to hear what others think.  See, as a Christian, I think we are fine to watch murder mysteries, action movies, etc.  How do I get this? From Philippians 4:8== whatever is true pertains to many shows and whatever is admirable pertains to others.  We don't see watching people do bad things mean that we approve of such bad things.  But we even watch sometimes something that is not true (true to life and what we believe is what I mean and not non-fiction) and the people in it are not acting admirable.  But even those shows, which are much less frequently watched, have other true parts that are teaching lessons that we feel are valuable.  I take a show like Breaking Bad-   no, we do not think that manufacturing meth is admirable.  No, we don't think the show's premise is true to life.  But there are many, many true consequences that are shown.  There are many moral lessons to discuss.  Watching the married people in that show having lots of problems due to  non communication can remind me to keep communication lines open with my dh. 

 

I am not saying anyone else should change their minds and start watching mysteries or anything else.  I just thought some of you may be interested in a different viewpoint.

[Rosie_0801]

Sometimes the line between "imagination" and "magic" is very subjective. As a Christian, I do try to avoid being entertained by things God condemns, as others have said.  On the other side, I believe we were created with imagination and a love of story-telling.  I personally stay away from anything with direct spiritism, witchcraft, etc.  I see "fantasy magic" a little bit differently.  But I understand why not everyone draws the line in the same place. 

 

Just wondering...

 

How are witchcraft and fantasy magic different?

[NatashainDFW]

Why do Christians pick and choose the Leviticus laws to follow? The same book prohibits wearing clothing of mixed materials and eating certain foods yet I see no one insisting these laws are followed. I am truly asking and not trying to be rude. I am a Christian myself.

[GSOchristie]

I am no expert on this, but I think different parts of Levitical law apply to different people, some to the Jews only, some to the general population everywhere. I have no idea which are which, however, but I think this is why it seems like people pick and choose.

[Saddlemomma]

Why do Christians pick and choose the Leviticus laws to follow? The same book prohibits wearing clothing of mixed materials and eating certain foods yet I see no one insisting these laws are followed. I am truly asking and not trying to be rude. I am a Christian myself.

Just to clear things up....I didn't say whether or not I agree, disagree, or subject myself to what I posted.  I just searched and found places in the Bible where those things were mentioned in order to help the OP explain possible reasons why the parents may have restricted their child's interest in such things.

 

In regards to my own family, we are Christians, and as such we believe we are under the new covenant with Jesus.  However, that doesn't mean, to us, that everything from the OT is no longer valid.  We read the OT to seek wisdom and guidance. Do I wear mixed materials?  Of course. Do I eat those previously forbidden foods?  Of course - anything God has provided is good.  However, I do read the OT to see how God reacted to moral situations or for the basic theme of morality.  In other words, what was the trend back then, how does that jive with the NT and Jesus' teaching, and how does it apply today?  Not all things would apply today.  It's basic common sense (such as the clothing thing).  However, witchcraft is seen as an abomination in both the OT and NT.  This is significant in my view and should be avoided. Secondly, we aren't Israelis.  Therefore, those laws never would have applied to us. We would have been considered Gentiles.  Remember the spat between Peter and Paul regarding circumcision for the Gentiles? However, as a follower of Jesus Christ, I want to, as much as I am able, to follow His teachings.  It's not all as cut and dried as some would suggest, especially if one is not a Christian to begin with. 

 

Now when it comes to fantasy, I do allow my dd to watch things like Narnia, Lightning Thief, and so on.  I even allowed her to watch....horror of all....Harry Potter (except the last two because she was only 9 and I didn't think they were appropriate for her age).

 

When she does watch things like HP, I explain the movie as we're watching it.  I also explain that witchcraft is not something, as Christians, we endorse or think is good, no matter how it is being applied in the movie.  The Bible is very clear about what witchcraft is and what it can cause.  We discuss those aspects after the movie.

 

I take things like HP and Lightning Thief, etc., as learning opportunities and to show how different worldviews compare or clash with the Christian worldview.  It teaches discernment.  How will our children learn how to discern good from bad or evil if we don't show them what it looks like or how it can, seemingly innocently, infiltrate our lives?

 

Anyway, that's just my take on the situation and certainly not everyone's view.

[NatashainDFW]

Just to clear things up....I didn't say whether or not I agree, disagree, or subject myself to what I posted. I just searched and found places in the Bible where those things were mentioned in order to help the OP explain possible reasons why the parents may have restricted their child's interest in such things.

I didn't say you did. I am genuinely curious. I have never found a piece of children's fiction I have felt necessary to ban versus discuss and it baffles me when others do. By all means they should do what they feel is best I just don't get it is all

[Georgiana Daniels]

I know of families who will not allow The Chronicles of Narnia in their homes, because of the talking animals. And yet many Christian families love these books.

 

Interesting! It was my understanding that CS Lewis wrote the series as a Christian allegory.

[ajfries]

Why do Christians pick and choose the Leviticus laws to follow? The same book prohibits wearing clothing of mixed materials and eating certain foods yet I see no one insisting these laws are followed. I am truly asking and not trying to be rude. I am a Christian myself.

Personally (as I said earlier) it is the principles that apply--not necessarily the laws. Though to be honest, I had to do some research to see what  principle applies to not wearing clothing of mixed materials. You know...just in case. lol.

 

Apparently it served as a way for the Israelites to be distinctively different from the surrounding nations. It was also possibly to illustrate the importance of purity. Also, possibly, clothes made of just one fiber are easier to take care of than those made from two.

[Laurie4b]

Why do Christians pick and choose the Leviticus laws to follow? The same book prohibits wearing clothing of mixed materials and eating certain foods yet I see no one insisting these laws are followed. I am truly asking and not trying to be rude. I am a Christian myself.

 

This is a good question. I think there is a great deal of consistency when you follow the somewhat simplified principle that things that are repeated in the New Testament continue to be binding on Christians going forward.. Some things were specifically "cleared" for instance, foods. (Mark 7:18-19; Acts 10). Other things are left up to people's consciences (Rom 14). Some are clearly restated as binding under the New Covenant. So since wearing mixed clothing isn't restated as binding, it is seen as pertaining only to the requirements for the Jewish people under the Old Covenant. They were "set apart" as a tribe in  physical ways to point to the spiritual. Since Christ the fulfillment has come, those outward signs are no longer needed.

 

[Cricket]

This is a good question. I think there is a great deal of consistency when you follow the somewhat simplified principle that things that are repeated in the New Testament continue to be binding on Christians going forward.. Some things were specifically "cleared" for instance, foods. (Mark 7:18-19; Acts 10). Other things are left up to people's consciences (Rom 14). Some are clearly restated as binding under the New Covenant. So since wearing mixed clothing isn't restated as binding, it is seen as pertaining only to the requirements for the Jewish people under the Old Covenant. They were "set apart" as a tribe in physical ways to point to the spiritual. Since Christ the fulfillment has come, those outward signs are no longer needed.

 

Yes. Some laws were civil, some were ceremonial and some were moral. Moral laws are still in effect. The others are not. The trick is deciding which are which.