Would this be petty (toxic person strikes again)?

[AimeeM]

She-who-must-not-be-named sent me an e-mail (if you recall my previous posts about SM).

She attached an American Greetings birthday card for my husband, and said that she must have the wrong e-mail for him, since it says he hasn't picked it up. She went on to chat in the e-mail, as though she hadn't said she wants no further contact, and then I read the card to my husband... in which she thanks my husband for "taking me in".

 

I can barely contain the things I *want* to respond with, but I have enough self discipline to step back for a minute.

 

I could ignore it - but it stresses me out every time she makes contact, and it's clear now that she is NOT going to stop.

 

Would it be petty to send a reply that says simply this (I have my husband's full blessing to issue this as a "joint" response:

 

L,

As you originally initiated the no-contact stance, which we agreed with, please refrain from contacting us.

 

Thank you,

Anthony and Aimee

 

I don't view it as petty, but I'm not trying to fuel anything either. I do feel it's necessary to say something, since it's clear she isn't going to stop contacting me of her own accord.

[Just Another Jen]

The toxic person in my life is constantly cutting off contact and then initiating it again 2-3 months later. I now just delete the emails. She wants you to engage. My advice is for both of you to ignore. Block her emails if you must. Just get off the merry go round.

   I know the feeling though and it stinks. 

 

 

[Lara in Colo]

The last thing I would do is reply--- it just adds fuel.

 

I would ignore the email and probably change my email address if it really bothered me.

Is there a way to block her emails?

[gardenmom5]

I don't think it is petty.  stronger language may be required.   re: "cease and desist" as opposed to "refrain".    if she's anything like my mil ('no' isn't in her vocabulary), it won't stop her.

two ways to look at how she'll take this.

1)  a triumph in that you responded at. all., and it will only encourage her to make further attempts.

2)  she'll honor your request to hold to her own threats to have no contact with you and just grumble to your father.

 

 

my impression was her threat to have no more contact with you was an attempt to manipulate you into doing what she wanted, and it failed spectacularly. 

my bets are on #1 being how she takes any response from you.

[Peace out muffins]

Block and ignore.

[gardenmom5]

The last thing I would do is reply--- it just adds fuel.

 

I would ignore the email and probably change my email address if it really bothered me.

Is there a way to block her emails?

depending upon the provider, go into settings and just add it to blocked senders. 

[Saraswati]

The very best thing for you to do is (if you're unable to block emails) delete her emails without reading them. If she sends mail, just throw it out. No thought, no replies - add any correspondence from her in with your junk mail pile, and toss it in the recycle bin. If she sends packages, don't open - mark them return to sender, and hand them back to the postman. Just don't look - It adds so much more stress, anger, and heartache to see her words.

 

My MIL used to play the same types of games - it took her 4 years, but she's finally given up. It is a relief like you cannot believe on our family - especially my dh. He's been dealing with her crazy all of his life, and it's been very hard on him. But since he's learned to deal with her, he's grown and changed in such positive ways. I'm so proud of him for learning to stand up for himself and protecting his family. 

[zoobie]

If you can't block her emails, set up a filter to send them straight to the trash.

 

She wants attention. Responding gives her attention. Ignore. Delete.

[WTMCassandra]

I agree with the discard without reading and ignore.

 

If it's clear she's not going to stop contacting you of her own accord, I strongly suspect that it's just as clear that your request will fall on deaf ears. If she wasn't a boundary-pusher, she wouldn't be a toxic person.

 

Therefore, I think your request will only backfire.  In fact, it might well cause her to escalate attempts at contact, probably along with denials that she ever requested no contact in the first place, if not also claiming not to understand why you on earth you are so mad at her.

 

Discard and ignore are the best ways to deal with this situation.

[Robin M]

Some people just need to have the last word and I get the impression she is that way. If you say anything at all, she will respond. It's hard and I know from experience, to not say anything, but that is what you need to do. Ignore, block, don't respond. Because every time you do, that just puts the power back in her hands.

[Trish]

A response of any kind is like offering a chain...to be  yanked.

 

So Ignore/Block.

 

Carry on with what matters in life.

 

:grouphug:

[AimeeM]

I may have embellished my ability to step back and wait to reply. As I was doing the dishes and talking to my husband, everything came flooding back - the memories of an entire childhood filled with supposedly kind comments, always with the underlying "jab" (like the birthday card comment thanking my husband for "taking me in" - yes, that really upset me). Every time I see her name or hear it, I get nervous.

 

It's ridiculous that at 28 years old she can still affect me like this and I gave her what she wanted. I should have come back to read this post first - I'm sure it would have helped give me the strength to ignore, but I didn't and I sent the e-mail.

 

I didn't want my husband to respond directly - that would have definitely fueled the fire as she seems to honestly believe he is mixed up in some illegal Italian mafia (no joke - she believes my engineer husband is involved in the mafia, sincerely, because I *once* joked about feeling like I was in the middle of a mafia movie visiting his family in philadelphia... little Irish me surrounded by sweet Italian men talking in Italian and kissing me, while shoving food on my plate; it was also my first experience in a big city). He wouldn't have said as few words as I did.

 

I shouldn't have done it and now I regret it. How do I stop feeling so affected by her? How do I get to the point where I can hear or see her name and not cringe, anticipating that she has said to others, or will say to me (directly or indirectly) something that makes me feel completely worthless? I know - I need to just grow up, suck it up, and get over it.

[houseofkids&pets]

So you responded to the email. Hopefully, it makes you feel a little bit better that you had your say. Now I would follow the advice of the previous posters and block her emails. If you can't do that, just ignore them and delete.  Every time she sends one and you read it, it will just upset you again.  BLOCK or IGNORE/DELETE!!!  You can do it!

[Parrothead]

 

I shouldn't have done it and now I regret it. How do I stop feeling so affected by her? How do I get to the point where I can hear or see her name and not cringe, anticipating that she has said to others, or will say to me (directly or indirectly) something that makes me feel completely worthless? I know - I need to just grow up, suck it up, and get over it.

 

You realize what kind of person she is.  Know in your heart she is just bitchy and vile.  Anyone who listens to her is no worth your time because they certainly don't know you.   What she says about you has nothing to do with you. 

 

Block all email. Or better yet, change your email.  Then you won't be tempted to read what she is saying.  Return all packages unopened.  Block her number from your phone.  I think you can do that for a small fee each month.  Ignore her until you are strong enough to deal with her brand of crazy. 

[Catwoman]

There's no harm in having sent the email. I'm sure I would have done exactly the same thing, and then sat around for days afterward wondering if I did the wrong thing.

 

But whenever you let yourself get sucked into the drama -- even if it's just second-guessing yourself about an email -- she wins a little tiny victory, because you're thinking about her.

 

Now that you have had the last word, block her emails and don't answer her phone calls before she contacts you again (and you know she will!)

 

Sorry you're stuck dealing with this! :grouphug:

[poppy]

If there's someone who's been berating and bullying you for a lifetime, "just get over it" is much easier said than done.  I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.

 

See if your email has the option to make a rule or filter where all emails from her address go directly to trash.  There is absolutely no reason for you to have anything to do with her.

[Dana]

I've set up a filter for my uncle's emails to be deleted immediately, so if he replies with his hate-filed and racist rants to something my folks sent to a group, his response isn't something I'll see at all :)

 

Definitely set up a filter. Do it now.

 

If anything comes snail mail, just toss it in the trash unread.

Use caller ID and don't pick up phone calls.

 

Good luck.

Also, see if you can come up with something you can think about her when you do have contact or think of her...something where you can look at her from the outside.. "Wow...how miserable she is. I'm so glad not to be trapped with her...."

[IdahoHomeschooler]

No contact is only no contact, if there is no contact. By replying, you are making contact, which is counter-productive to no contact. You cannot control this other person and their toxic behavior, but you can control your own toxic behavior. Delete any further emails, don't even read them. I agree with changing settings in your email if you don't feel that you have the self-control to keep from reading them. Read The Dance of Anger by Harriet Lerner so that you can understand the dynamic and learn to disengage yourself from it. She is attempting to triangulate you and your husband. Again, you cannot control her or her actions, but you can control your own and learn not to react.

[Forget-Me-Not]

What did you decide to do with the birthday gift?

 

I would have said not to send too, but I see that you already did. I would ignore all communication from now on. Just be a big black hole to her drama. Direct her emails to the trash, or at least to a separate folder so you have the option to look at them only when you want to.

 

And what a horrible thing for her to say--as if you were a stray cat that turned up on his porch! He didn't take you in, he MARRIED you. Remember that and don't let her destroy it. (((Hugs)))

[Tiberia]

Don't beat yourself up for sending the email. Don't start being unkind to yourself just because you still react to her. It will be a process to let go of all the baggage.

 

Give yourself some grace and allow yourself to mourn the relationship that isn't possible with her. As others have said, do what you can to block and ignore in the future. She'll keep pushing; be prepared for it, but don't let her control the situation.

 

Sorry this is so difficult. Move on in the great life that you have. You will get through this. Blessings. 

[gardenmom5]

have you read any of the sites on mother's with personality disorders and how they affect their daughters?  My favorite name for a blog was theharpyschild (for the first time, I felt like someone else knew exactly what I was saying right down to the "everything you say will be used against you"), but the one I found most useful was daughter's of narcisstic mothers.  there are different kinds of personality disorder, but the information is useful no matter what you're dealing with.   the description you give is classic.  the only way to maintain your sanity is boundaries.  you need to believe YOU can say 'no' to her, and it's okay.  YOU are worth being treated better than this, and it's okay to refuse to tolerate it.   repeat that everyday if you have to, as an affirmation.  be kind to yourself.

 

the damage these types of women do to their children, is very subtle, but it is real. watch the movie gaslight.   Oftimes those on the outside don't see it, and is so far outside their experience they don't comprehend.  it's ingrained pavlovian responses, and they're pavlov.  (everything is about feeding their ego,  sometimes there is even satisfaction that it hurts someone else - to "put them in their place".)   I believe I learned the nature of evil from her, and I even have a working-definition that I go by.  "seeking to usurp another's agency (free will) to feed their own ego and agrandizement."  it fit her to a "T". 

 

as a religious person (despite my grandmother), I came to understand the only one whose opinion about me matters, is God. 

 

my grandmother did to my sister, much as your sm is doing with you.  how she should be grateful her dh married her. he, among other things, was a regular drug user and had a history of violence.  a week after I was married, dh went out of town on business.  grandmother went on about how men have affairs and sleep around when they go out of town.  she did come right out and accused him of sleeping around.  a WEEK after we'd gotten married.   I laughed in her face. in retrospect,  it's actually the best response I could have given her as she never tried that particular crap on me again - she got the message loud and clear that tack wasn't going to work to undermine my marriage.  it really did bug her I married well and against HER wishes.

 

I question whether your sm actually believes your dh is in the mafia - she can use your "joke" against you.

 

whatever you choose to do, you and your dh do need to be united on this. if you chose to have no contact, NEITHER of you can have contact.  you're received good advice.  block/delete e-mails, toss mail or return to sender. (or packages to your favorite charity.)

 

if you choose to have contact, make an effort to not talking a.n.y.t.h.i.n.g. she says seriously.  brush it off as though it's the funniest thing you've ever heard, no matter how outrageous. (the more outrageous, the louder you should laugh.) that is the start to realizing you have power in this relationship and being treated as an equal instead of a subservient child who jumps when they're told. 

 

[NorthwestMom]

How do I get to the point where I can hear or see her name and not cringe, anticipating that she has said to others, or will say to me (directly or indirectly) something that makes me feel completely worthless?

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Aimee, I know women like your SM in my real life, and do you know that when they say crazy bitchy things, I don't believe them?  I can see these blackhearted, narcissistic women coming a mile away, and they always have something snide to say about somebody, and I just don't believe a word of it.  It reflects badly on them, not whomever is their current victim.  Please stop worrying what other people will think of what she's said.  They will think she is an awful person. Period.

 

Furthermore, just because this woman says cr@ppy things to you, does not mean you have to own it. Stop letting this broken person make you feel worthless! Who the h3ll cares what she thinks anyway?!? :cursing:

 

For the record, my MIL went around my son's first birthday party and thanked the moms for "being NorthwestMom's friend". They were all like, "What is wrong with HER?", not "What is wrong with NorthwestMom?" My DS is 14 and we still laugh about it.  My MIL can get bent for all I care.

[AimeeM]

I know that I need to cut contact. I think that, subconsciously, I wish I had the balls to let loose on her one time. Just once. Just once I'd like to tell her that I know it isn't true my step-grandfather didn't want me around, how much I hate that she took away my one opportunity to have a viable grandparent in my life, how much I resent that she allowed me to say the things to him that I did, as a child, thinking that he hated me, as I had been told, and then he died before I found out the truth.

 

I wish I could tell her how much I resent that she hid the cash I had saved as a young adult, put aside to move out and on my own, under the premise that I "couldn't do it - make it on my own" and that I would be tearing their hearts out if I left.

 

I wish I could tell her that I remember every.single.time that she came into my room to give me "advice" that was layered with the gentle reminder that I didn't deserve such a good thing to happen or be, or that I was just imagining/lying about the way something happened.

 

I wish I could tell her that I'm not a charity case to my husband. That he finds me beautiful, worthwhile, and intelligent, and tells me daily, but that the jabs she threw at me as a child, still affects the way I perceive the things my husband says to me (I constantly worry that he's being sarcastic or untruthful, even though he's never given me ANY reason to believe so).

 

But then, she would use those against me, I'm sure, and it would give her satisfaction to know that she still affects my life so much. So instead of saying them to her, I'll be satisfied that I can say them here.

[Seasider]

The last thing I would do is reply--- it just adds fuel.

 

I would ignore the email and probably change my email address if it really bothered me.

Is there a way to block her emails?

I agree with this 100%. She is trying to provoke a reaction, any reaction. Don't take the bait.

 

If you really want no contact, put up your perimeter fence. Block her email address.

[Seasider]

Oh, saw that you had already replied.

 

Aimee, there are many things I know you would like to say to her, to bring light, truth and justice the ways she betrayed you in the past. Here are two things to think about.

 

First, you could confront her with true things all day long, and she will NEVER see them the same way you do. That's why her personality could be called disordered. No matter what you say or how much feeling you pour out or how much evidence you have to prove her evil ways, she will NEVER own up to it. She will rationalize away her behavior, every time, on every count. If she doesn't twist your words to put herself in the right, she will put herself in the role of the victim of your "ungratefulness." Confronting her is a no win situation. Trust me on this one.

 

Second, please carefully consider the nature of forgiveness. Real forgiveness is not forgive and forget, pretend like it never happened. True forgiveness is the conscious choice to not hold someone responsible for their past actions. In my experience, the only way to get over the hurt of a manipulative, hurtful family member has been to choose to forgive. Reconciliation is an entirely separate matter. Reconciliation comes when the person I've forgiven chooses to repent of past hurtful actions and takes steps to never behave that way again. In my experience, said persons have neither expressed repentance, nor made efforts to change injurious behavior, so the boundaries stay firmly in place. I think it entirely possible to forgive someone - thus releasing yourself from the power she has over your emotions - without allowing her back into a position to hurt you again.

 

I'm sorry, I know it's difficult. Have you read Cloud & Townsend's Boundaries book? You really should.

[City Mouse]

Can you mark her email address as SPAM and have it filtered out automatically? That way you never even have to know she emailed you.

[Parrothead]

As much as you want to say those things, don't bother. Her version of reality is warped. This I can relate to. I deal with a person with a warped since of reality often. This person's truth always shows her as the good guy. The one who has never been wrong about anything.

 

Even if you blast SM with both barrels of a well aimed confrontation, she will never see how she wronged you. In her mind she was absolutely correct in doing those things. For your own good.

 

It would be like teaching pigs to sing or hearding cats. A waste of valuable time, resources and sanity.

[Dana]

You could write a letter with what you want to say, then burn it. That gives you the experience of saying what you want to say but without it being able to be used against you.

 

:grouphug:

 

It's hard. You're doing well.

[Annie Mae]

I've had someone like that in my life. 

 

I made it clear that I wanted no further contact and then ignored all e-mails, calls and any attempt at contact.

 

She eventually got the message. 

 

Good luck

[gardenmom5]

First, you could confront her with true things all day long, and she will NEVER see them the same way you do. That's why her personality could be called disordered. No matter what you say or how much feeling you pour out or how much evidence you have to prove her evil ways, she will NEVER own up to it. She will rationalize away her behavior, every time, on every count. If she doesn't twist your words to put herself in the right, she will put herself in the role of the victim of your "ungratefulness." Confronting her is a no win situation. Trust me on this one.

 

Second, please carefully consider the nature of forgiveness. Real forgiveness is not forgive and forget, pretend like it never happened. True forgiveness is the conscious choice to not hold someone responsible for their past actions. In my experience, the only way to get over the hurt of a manipulative, hurtful family member has been to choose to forgive. Reconciliation is an entirely separate matter. Reconciliation comes when the person I've forgiven chooses to repent of past hurtful actions and takes steps to never behave that way again. In my experience, said persons have neither expressed repentance, nor made efforts to change injurious behavior, so the boundaries stay firmly in place. I think it entirely possible to forgive someone - thus releasing yourself from the power she has over your emotions - without allowing her back into a position to hurt you again.

 

I'm sorry, I know it's difficult. Have you read Cloud & Townsend's Boundaries book? You really should.

this.

forgiveness is letting go of the hurt.  refusing to let her live in your head. I got there one precious drop at a time. stepping back, which letting go/forgiving allows, enabled me to see things even more clearly.  I knew I was getting close to letting go of all the hurt when I could say "she was a very unhappy person", and just feel sorry for her that she worked so hard to make those she should have cared for be as miserable as herself.

 

I occasionally fantasied about what it would be like to tell her everything I felt - and even have her take responsibility. it wouldn't change anything.  the damage was still done - and I still had to clean up the mess. she could grovel for forgivness at my feet, and I still had to clean up the mess.  I decided it was more worth my time and energy to just work on cleaning up the mess.

 

I agree, write a letter, get everything in it. it was an exercise I did when first realizing just what a witch my grandmother was.  don't mail it.  it can be mentally and emotionally exhausting, and don't expect to be able to get everything out in one sitting.

[LMD]

Aimee -  :grouphug:

 

Can i Just say, I have had the let everything loose moments with the toxic person in my life.  Twice.  The person didn't hear a word of it.  I still got a nasty letter afterwards which completely re-wrote history & what we had just argued about.  People like this think that their feelings are the ultimate truth, and that they have a right to vent them.  Your feelings don't matter (clearly!  They never mattered before!), logic/reasoning doesn't count because the way they perceive it is utmost.  Trying to call them out on it is adding explosive fuel to the fire, because their whole life is wrapped up in their warped feelings, and you are trying to rock their world.

 

I'm 29 years old, it's still very hard and I still struggle regularly.  We haven't had contact for a year now (though gifts are still sent for birthdays from this person, and there was one text).  I have definitely improved my mental health after all this time, because I'm seeing things more clearly instead of being sucked in to the drama.  The last blow up, my DH was witness to.  That was fantastic, because no-one really believed it was that bad, nobody could be that crazy, but he saw it in the flesh.

[gardenmom5]

  The last blow up, my DH was witness to.  That was fantastic, because no-one really believed it was that bad, nobody could be that crazy, but he saw it in the flesh.

 

I knew crazy - my grandmother was.   dh and I were married before I met his mother.  sil's dh and I were getting the stories to prepare us for meeting mil.

 

one of the stories was how she cleaned out her purse.  It was bizzare.  I believed it happened once, or maybe even twice (a few times?), but struggled to truly grasp it was a regular let alone FREQUENT occurance.  she lived with us for a year, and after she left, I found box after box after box after box after . . well, you get the idea. boxes floor to ceiling in the closet of her bedroom.  and that was in less than 12 months.

 

she takes her purse and dumps it on a towel.  she puts the towel in a bag, she puts the bag in a box and that box in another box and puts it in the closet.    ad infinitim.

[Twigs]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[PentecostalMom]

I would delete and ignore.  Repeatedly if necessary.  Can you block her emails?  I would do anything I could to refuse to let this person invade my life.  I agree with others who have said that she wants you to engage, she wants you to respond.  I would delete, block, and ignore.  Don't let petty people make you unhappy and stressed.

 

ETA: I didn't read all of the posts before responding.  I am so sorry you are having to deal with this, epscially having to grow up with someone that hate-filled emptying their garbage into your mind.  It is harder to let go and recover when you had this mess essentially drilled into your head.  Just know that your dc and dh need a happy, healthy, loving wife and mom, and regardless of your relationship or lack thereof with this fruitcake, you will have to work daily on letting it go.  I know how hard it can be and you are over a decade younger than I!  Remember that people that spew filth are filled with filth.  The things she says to you are how she feels inside and she wants you to be miserable with her.  Do not give her that control and satisfaction.  Do not let that vile serum into your home and family. 

 

I fight nearly daily, although it is better with the help of my dh, to not be like my mom.  I see it sometimes in my 7yo and it make me horribly sad and sickened.  My mom is very self-depreciating and taught that to all four of her daughters.  What a wonderful legacy, huh?  I love my mom dearly but she made some bad choices in her life and she is miserable most of the time.  I don't want to be like that, nor to spew those emotions in my home.  I do not visit her often, though I do call frequently.  She does not know any other way of living and it sadeens me that she will die in misery, but by her own choices. 

 

Anyway, enough about me.  Do everything you can to let it go.  Life is short and you nor your family need to live like that.  (((hugs)))