S/O: Cars stolen with kids inside, or school-aged kids abducted from cars?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Can anyone link some cases where this has happened when the keys have been removed and the car locked up? The only cases I've ever seen were where the car was already open (at a gas station, the mom was just outside the car) or where the driver was IN the car but was carjacked with the kids inside. I had a similar debate with a friend once about this, and one of us maintained that it was possible to have a car broken into, hotwired, and driven away in just a few minutes, while the other thought it was so unlikely as to pretty much never have happened. I saw people mention it (as well as kids abducted from locked, parked cars) on SKL's thread and wondered if anyone knew of some actual cases. 

 

TIA!

[msjones]

Never heard of it.

 

The kid-locked-in-the-car dangers seem to be heat/cold, or the child releasing the brake.  

[TracyP]

My guess is that you will not find a case where children have been kidnapped (intentionally or otherwise) from a vehicle that is locked with keys out of the ignition.

 

There could be other factors that make it dangerous: heat, kids leaving vehicle, rolling car (is that possible nowadays?), and any other risk that is associated with children being unsupervised. I think using common sense should help people decide when it is or isn't a good idea to leave kids in a vehicle. I don't usually leave my kids in the car, but I have in a handful of situations.

 

Now if you want to really talk dangerous, sometimes our family will go for a drive around the lake. No purpose except the scenery. We are putting all our lives in danger for virtually no reason. I hope nobody ever turns us in. :leaving:

 

 

[songsparrow]

My curiosity was peaked as well.  A search turned up:

* Oct 2012, Georgia - 2 year old abducted when left inside van when caregiver went inside church to work out, van was stolen - the article doesn't say if van was locked or if keys were in it (caregiver was arrested)

* May 2013, Georgia - Mom buckled 17-month-old into car then went back into preschool to get older child (this was around midnight), car was stolen - article doesn't say if car was locked or if keys were in it

 

Other cases that I found either involved an unlocked car with keys in it / running being stolen with children inside, or questionable circumstances (e.g., parent claimed child was abducted from car but it appeared possible/likely that was not the case).

[Guest]

I never heard of it. 

 

That said, I don't understand the point of leaving kids in the car. 

 

Even thinking about leaving the kids in the car makes me feel uneasy.  I feel uneasy every time I read or post on one of these threads.  No joke!

[PeacefulChaos]

You know, speaking of public restrooms... I let Astro go in one by himself the other day at the mall (I went into the women's in the meantime) and I have never peed so fast in my life.  I swear, I was in SUCH a hurry to make sure I got out before him, and then I was on edge until I SAW him walk out of the bathroom.  What's up with that?  Why can't I just be cool and chill about it all?  

Obviously, I acted cool... or atleast I think I did.  Sigh.  :rolleyes:

[Guest]

Just shoot me now.  My 12 year old is very short.  He looks a lot younger than he really is.  No one has ever noticed... 

 

I'm just kidding.  Or not.

[Guest]

I was starting to ease up on my paranoia.  Then that was killed when I heard a news story about a predator issue at a restroom at a museum I frequent a lot.  Ugh.  I know it's still fairly rare, but I just can't stop worrying about it after hearing that. 

 

Even when my kids go in together I am outside the door.  I have been known to yell in there to ask what's taking them so long.  LOL

 

That's what I have done the times I've let him go into the men's room.  I hold the door open with my foot and talk to my son, so everyone knows there is a crazy mom on high alert.  I do try to make sure no one is in there, first.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Now if you want to really talk dangerous, sometimes our family will go for a drive around the lake. No purpose except the scenery. We are putting all our lives in danger for virtually no reason. I hope nobody ever turns us in. :leaving:

 

:lol: No kidding. The funny thing is, this friend let her kids out of booster seats and let her oldest sit in front WAY earlier than I would have (I just let DD10--almost 11--out of a booster a month ago), but she felt uncomfortable leaving her kids in the car while she ran 20 feet to drop a DVD in the library drop box. I guess we all have our own neuroses! 

 

My curiosity was peaked as well.  A search turned up:

 

* Oct 2012, Georgia - 2 year old abducted when left inside van when caregiver went inside church to work out, van was stolen - the article doesn't say if van was locked or if keys were in it (caregiver was arrested)

* May 2013, Georgia - Mom buckled 17-month-old into car then went back into preschool to get older child (this was around midnight), car was stolen - article doesn't say if car was locked or if keys were in it

 

Other cases that I found either involved an unlocked car with keys in it / running being stolen with children inside, or questionable circumstances (e.g., parent claimed child was abducted from car but it appeared possible/likely that was not the case).

 

Thanks, I found some cases too, but none of them exactly fit the scenario I was looking for. Is that last one the Sky Metalwala case? I don't understand how that insane woman has not been arrested yet. I keep checking every once in awhile to see if there's been any progress, but I don't think there will ever be more news :(

 

I don't envy any of you the bathroom scenario at all. I really intensely dislike when moms bring older boys into the women's bathroom/locker room with them (especially when they send them in alone, or don't supervise them or have them wait somewhere out of general view of the showers/changing stalls/toilet stalls  :glare: ), but I don't blame them for not wanting to send them into the men's room alone. 

[Catwoman]

I have heard about carjackings where a kid happened to be in the backseat when the car was stolen, but I don't think I have ever heard of a child being kidnapped from a parked car.

 

That said, I still wouldn't leave a young child in the car all alone. My own paranoia would get the best of me.

[unfrumpable.]

I bring my 7 y/o son into the restroom with me. If I don't have to go, he can use the men's restroom by himself, but I am waiting near the door the whole time.

[kiwik]

Like I said abductions are pretty rare here. The ones I have heard of were when the parent was paying for petrol etc. I still do it. I do not enjoy getting two crazy children out of carseats, dropping them getting run over on the forecourt and dropping them destroying the place while I wait in line to pay, then getting them back into their carseats while impatient drivers stare on. The cases of kids being taken were sleeping children taken by accident. A good car their can get in to a lot of cars very fast though and I am reluctant to lock the doors in case their is an emergency. You do have to take some risks in life to survive.

[sassenach]

I'm probably middle of the road with my comfort level of leaving kids in the car, but the worst story I ever heard didn't involve the car getting stolen.  The kids messed with the lighter and the car went up in flames.  I think there were 3 or 4 kids in the car and several of them suffered severe burns.  I think it was on Oprah many years ago.  That story freaked me out.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I'm probably middle of the road with my comfort level of leaving kids in the car, but the worst story I ever heard didn't involve the car getting stolen.  The kids messed with the lighter and the car went up in flames.  I think there were 3 or 4 kids in the car and several of them suffered severe burns.  I think it was on Oprah many years ago.  That story freaked me out.

 

Oh, that's very sad :(

[Guest]

:lol: No kidding. The funny thing is, this friend let her kids out of booster seats and let her oldest sit in front WAY earlier than I would have (I just let DD10--almost 11--out of a booster a month ago), but she felt uncomfortable leaving her kids in the car while she ran 20 feet to drop a DVD in the library drop box. I guess we all have our own neuroses!

 

 

Thanks, I found some cases too, but none of them exactly fit the scenario I was looking for. Is that last one the Sky Metalwala case? I don't understand how that insane woman has not been arrested yet. I keep checking every once in awhile to see if there's been any progress, but I don't think there will ever be more news :(

 

I don't envy any of you the bathroom scenario at all. I really intensely dislike when moms bring older boys into the women's bathroom/locker room with them (especially when they send them in alone, or don't supervise them or have them wait somewhere out of general view of the showers/changing stalls/toilet stalls :glare: ), but I don't blame them for not wanting to send them into the men's room alone.

I get you. I've been trying to do the other scenario I described, instead of bringing him in, but it kinda sucks. More places need to have family restrooms.

 

What age and up bothers you?

[Guest]

Oh, and I would never bring my boys into a women's locker room unless they were babies.

[DianeW88]

Just shoot me now.  My 12 year old is very short.  He looks a lot younger than he really is.  No one has ever noticed... 

 

I'm just kidding.  Or not.

 

You bring your 12 year old son into the women's restroom with you???? :blink:

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I get you. I've been trying to do the other scenario I described, instead of bringing him in, but it kinda sucks. More places need to have family restrooms.

 

What age and up bothers you?

 

Hm, maybe 8-ish? Old enough to know what they're seeing if they accidentally catch a glimpse. It seems like all bathroom stalls have huge gaps on either side of the door, which also annoys the daylights out of me!  When I was in the pool changing room last week, someone had a bunch of kids in with them, and several boys were playing around directly in front of the toilet stalls, when the parent in charge was brushing hair in the one part of the locker room where there's nothing to see. There was no reason she couldn't have called them over to be with her and the other kids. Plus, in that locker room, you can always see into the showers, and the curtains on the changing stalls don't close all the way. 

 

That said, I try not to let it bother me, truly. I know there's no acceptable alternative, and I won't be mentally cursing you unless you're ignoring your kid and he's misbehaving! I agree that more places need family restrooms/locker rooms. 

[Guest]

You bring your 12 year old son into the women's restroom with you???? :blink:

I said I was kidding!

 

  

Hm, maybe 8-ish? Old enough to know what they're seeing if they accidentally catch a glimpse. It seems like all bathroom stalls have huge gaps on either side of the door, which also annoys the daylights out of me!  When I was in the pool changing room last week, someone had a bunch of kids in with them, and several boys were playing around directly in front of the toilet stalls, when the parent in charge was brushing hair in the one part of the locker room where there's nothing to see. There was no reason she couldn't have called them over to be with her and the other kids. Plus, in that locker room, you can always see into the showers, and the curtains on the changing stalls don't close all the way. 

 

That said, I try not to let it bother me, truly. I know there's no acceptable alternative, and I won't be mentally cursing you unless you're ignoring your kid and he's misbehaving! I agree that more places need family restrooms/locker rooms.

 

Okay, just trying to figure out when I need to start leaving my second ds outside the restroom. If I do leave him outside, unattended, will someone call the cops?

[KungFuPanda]

You bring your 12 year old son into the women's restroom with you???? :blink:

I do. He needs assistance in the handicapped stalls and the family rooms never seem available. My choice is to never leave the house without my husband, or take my son into the ladies room. If the toilets didn't have walls around them, I guess I'd just stay home, but we've never seen anything scandalous in a public restroom that would scar my son at anyone else.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I said I was kidding!

 

  

Okay, just trying to figure out when I need to start leaving my second ds outside the restroom. If I do leave him outside, unattended, will someone call the cops?

 

:lol: That's a good question. I wouldn't, but then I leave my kids in the car alone AND home alone (together) sometimes! 

 

I do. He needs assistance in the handicapped stalls and the family rooms never seem available. My choice is to never leave the house without my husband, or take my son into the ladies room. If the toilets didn't have walls around them, I guess I'd just stay home, but we've never seen anything scandalous in a public restroom that would scar my son at anyone else.

 

IMO, this is different from taking your average 12-year-old into the bathroom just because you're being hyper-cautious. This is just doing what needs to be done in a less-than-ideal situation. I can't imagine anyone who would have a problem with this. (Well, I could, but they'd be too wacky to pay attention to.)

[DianeW88]

I said I was kidding!

 

  

Okay, just trying to figure out when I need to start leaving my second ds outside the restroom. If I do leave him outside, unattended, will someone call the cops?

 

Ok...you had me worried there for a second. :D  Because having a 12 year old boy in there the same time as my dd at that age would have absolutely freaked her right out.

 

Having said that, there was a mom who brought her two sons into the women's restroom in Disney World when I was there.  They were around 10 and 12, I would guess.  The restroom was in Animal Kingdom, near the Kali River Rapids.  That is a ride where you get absolutely drenched.  Three girls in their mid to late teens came in the restroom after the ride soaking wet.  They were all in light colored t-shirts that had turned completely transparent from the water.  The girls whipped off their t-shirts and stood there in their bras, as they dried their shirts with the hand dryer (otherwise the whole park would have seen the wet t-shirt contest winners).  This mom FREAKED OUT that these girls would DARE to expose themselves to her boys.  Hello?  They're in the women's restroom.

 

The girls kept drying their shirts and told her if she didn't want her boys to see stuff like this...don't bring them in the WOMEN'S rest room.

 

Oddly enough, her boys didn't seem to mind the Victoria's Secret fashion show one little bit. :D

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

This mom FREAKED OUT that these girls would DARE to expose themselves to her boys.  Hello?  They're in the women's restroom.

 

It's people like this that make me stay home alone a lot  :glare:

 

An older boy in the restroom would freak my very modest DD10 out as well. 

[DianeW88]

I do. He needs assistance in the handicapped stalls and the family rooms never seem available. My choice is to never leave the house without my husband, or take my son into the ladies room. If the toilets didn't have walls around them, I guess I'd just stay home, but we've never seen anything scandalous in a public restroom that would scar my son at anyone else.

 

Not the same thing as your average 12 year old boy at all.  I wouldn't even blink an eye at this.

[Guest]

Ok...you had me worried there for a second. :D Because having a 12 year old boy in there the same time as my dd at that age would have absolutely freaked her right out.

 

Having said that, there was a mom who brought her two sons into the women's restroom in Disney World when I was there. They were around 10 and 12, I would guess. The restroom was in Animal Kingdom, near the Kali River Rapids. That is a ride where you get absolutely drenched. Three girls in their mid to late teens came in the restroom after the ride soaking wet. They were all in light colored t-shirts that had turned completely transparent from the water. The girls whipped off their t-shirts and stood there in their bras, as they dried their shirts with the hand dryer (otherwise the whole park would have seen the wet t-shirt contest winners). This mom FREAKED OUT that these girls would DARE to expose themselves to her boys. Hello? They're in the women's restroom.

 

The girls kept drying their shirts and told her if she didn't want her boys to see stuff like this...don't bring them in the WOMEN'S rest room.

 

Oddly enough, her boys didn't seem to mind the Victoria's Secret fashion show one little bit. :D

Since he's older now I'm really trying to come up with alternatives. Lately, we've avoided it as he doesn't seem to have to go to the restroom while we are out ( I make him go at home before we leave) . The other times, DH has been with us, so that solves that. Other times, I've gotten lucky with a family restroom. One day, though, he'll have to go. I'll probably do the scenario I've done before with the men's room. He's old enough where I'm okay with this. However, there is no was I'm sending in ds #2 , who is seven. He's just way too young, IMO. Just trying to see if that would upset anyone.

 

Good point about the younger girls being in there. I wouldn't want an older boy in the bathroom while dd was in there.

[Guest]

It's people like this that make me stay home alone a lot :glare:

 

An older boy in the restroom would freak my very modest DD10 out as well.

What aged boy would freak her out?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

What aged boy would freak her out?

 

That's a very good question. I'll ask her about it. It never even crossed my mind to discuss it with her, but I should, because she'll probably come across it at some point. I think, in the bathroom, probably 8-ish, again; it's younger enough that she'd still see boys that age as "little kids." I'll let you know what she says.

[Guest]

That's a very good question. I'll ask her about it. It never even crossed my mind to discuss it with her, but I should, because she'll probably come across it at some point. I think, in the bathroom, probably 8-ish, again; it's younger enough that she'd still see boys that age as "little kids." I'll let you know what she says.

Thanks!

[Plateau Mama]

 

Thanks, I found some cases too, but none of them exactly fit the scenario I was looking for. Is that last one the Sky Metalwala case? I don't understand how that insane woman has not been arrested yet. I keep checking every once in awhile to see if there's been any progress, but I don't think there will ever be more news :(

.

 

The Sky incident happened very near to me. I agree. I cannot for the life of me figure out how the mom has gotten away with this. There is no doubt in my mind she did something. She is not that smart, so I can't figure out how she's gotten away with whatever she did. My heart breaks for the dad. Last year on the 1 yr anniversary he had a vigil at a park near me. I just started crying when I saw him unloading balloons and hand out shirts to the volunteers. It was one of the most heartbreaking sights I've ever seen.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Thanks!

 

I was right, she said younger than 9 would be OK, but older than that would be uncomfortable. Thanks for asking, it was a good opportunity to discuss the issue with both my girls.

[renmew]

My son is 9, and he's been using the men's room since about age six. For the first year I stood outside and waited, and now he is fine on his own. I never held the door open to the men's room, and I don't think I am the only one who would be very upset if a man held open the women's room door.

 

Officially, I would feel uncomfortable if an eight year old boy or older was in the women's room or a locker room, barring obvious developmental issues that necessitated otherwise.

[DianeW88]

My sons both used the men's restroom alone since age six or seven.  And honestly, I would have had open rebellion if I had tried to make them use the GIRLS' bathroom (say that in a completely disgusted 7 year old boy voice :D) much past first grade.

 

Oh, and I never held the door open either.  Actually, I couldn't imagine doing that.  And my son would have died of embarrassment if I'd tried it.

[Paige]

I don't recall seeing info on whether or not the keys were in the car or if the door was locked with kids being taken, but I do know a story of kids being killed when they were left in the car and someone hit that car. I'm not sure if having an adult there would have made a difference, but you could say that an adult may have been more likely to notice the approaching car. Depending on the specifics, there may have been a chance to move out of the way or honk. I also know of a guy killed when he slipped on the way out of bed and fell on a pen on his nightstand that popped upright when he hit it on the way down and it somehow went into his brain, and another guy killed from a rock that shot up from a lawnmower. You can't prevent everything.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I don't recall seeing info on whether or not the keys were in the car or if the door was locked with kids being taken, but I do know a story of kids being killed when they were left in the car and someone hit that car. I'm not sure if having an adult there would have made a difference, but you could say that an adult may have been more likely to notice the approaching car. Depending on the specifics, there may have been a chance to move out of the way or honk. I also know of a guy killed when he slipped on the way out of bed and fell on a pen on his nightstand that popped upright when he hit it on the way down and it somehow went into his brain, and another guy killed from a rock that shot up from a lawnmower. You can't prevent everything.

 

Oh, goodness. Those are the kinds of stories that keep me up at night! How awful :(

 

ETA: In the car scenario, if they'd gone into the store with the adult, they wouldn't have been in the car at all, I guess? So there's one scenario that does support my friend's argument.

[SKL]

I've never heard of any.

[Ravin]

Oh, goodness. Those are the kinds of stories that keep me up at night! How awful :(

 

ETA: In the car scenario, if they'd gone into the store with the adult, they wouldn't have been in the car at all, I guess? So there's one scenario that does support my friend's argument.

What about children hit by cars in parking lots while going to/from the store?

 

http://www.parkingpalmagnet.com/Child-Fatalities-in-Parking-Lots_ep_42.html

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

What about children hit by cars in parking lots while going to/from the store?

 

http://www.parkingpalmagnet.com/Child-Fatalities-in-Parking-Lots_ep_42.html

 

Oh, well, now what?! I guess I'll have to leave them home alone while I run errands. They'll be safe there, right?  :tongue_smilie:

[Luanne]

I don't recall seeing info on whether or not the keys were in the car or if the door was locked with kids being taken, but I do know a story of kids being killed when they were left in the car and someone hit that car. I'm not sure if having an adult there would have made a difference, but you could say that an adult may have been more likely to notice the approaching car. Depending on the specifics, there may have been a chance to move out of the way or honk. I also know of a guy killed when he slipped on the way out of bed and fell on a pen on his nightstand that popped upright when he hit it on the way down and it somehow went into his brain, and another guy killed from a rock that shot up from a lawnmower. You can't prevent everything.

 

So, if you can't prevent everything, you shouldn't try to prevent anything?  Just asking.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

So, if you can't prevent everything, you shouldn't try to prevent anything?  Just asking.

 

You probably shouldn't waste emotional resources on the potential for events whose likelihood of occurrence is statistically nil, because there are so many of those kinds of things that you could literally paralyze yourself with fear.

[mamaraby]

So, if you can't prevent everything, you shouldn't try to prevent anything? Just asking.

I guess I struggle with the idea that anyone can be vigilant enough, safe enough, watch enough to ensure that one's child will never be at risk and always be "safe." And if that, then at what cost?

 

Then again, I speak as one who has left her kids in the car to return a library book 20 feet away and let's her 5yo and 3yo go to the bathroom together on their own.

 

And my dh is in law enforcement.

 

I refuse to become paralyzed with fear so that I limit my child's ability to discover their own independence. Let's look at the statistical probability of any of these things happening. Injury in a car accident is far more likely which is why my kids were rear facing until 3ish, harnessed to the limits of the seat (first LATCH, then with a seatbelt/tether combo), high back booster to the limits of the seat, and then in a regular old booster until the seatbelt fits the properly. Every time.

 

It's also why we avoid indoor play places for kids. Because, really, my n=1 sample size says they're a great deal more likely to come down with some nasty gastro intestinal virus than find themselves in the scenarios mentioned here.

[Scarlett]

Just shoot me now. My 12 year old is very short. He looks a lot younger than he really is. No one has ever noticed...

 

I'm just kidding. Or not.

Well it wouldn't bother me. I mean after all I use the toilet in a stall with a door and unless your son is peeping through the crack I just don't mind him being there. But apparently it REALLY bugs some women, so you should know that.

 

More than that though is how it is affecting your son. The first time he runs into a girl his age from class or swim or just the neighborhood he will be humiliated.

[Scarlett]

My sons both used the men's restroom alone since age six or seven. And honestly, I would have had open rebellion if I had tried to make them use the GIRLS' bathroom (say that in a completely disgusted 7 year old boy voice :D) much past first grade.

 

Oh, and I never held the door open either. Actually, I couldn't imagine doing that. And my son would have died of embarrassment if I'd tried it.

Yeah, I humiliated my ds a few times when I was first letting him go alone. Ages 8 or so I think. I have been known to open the door and call his name.

 

I am over that now. But he is 13 1/2 and almost 6 foot.