do you cut it off before it happens...or wait to see IF it happens??

[ProudGrandma]

I love my SIL and my brother very much. They are both teachers and I don't always think they agree with us 100% about our choice to homeschool. BUT, with that being said...the following senerio happened when my kids were in PS and has happened after we pulled them. But they like to talk to the kids about what they are learning in various subjects.

 

My children (but especially my daughter) are concerned that their aunt or uncle will ask them about what they are learning in math and my youngest and oldest are not at grade level with math right now...mostly because MUS messsed us up....my dd is entering 7th grade and is NO where near pre-algebra (even though her PS friends are and she hates that too) and my youngest is going into 4th grade and we are just now starting Multiplication. Neither one of them have learning problems....it's just that MUS left huge gaps for us, and we are trying to fill in the gaps before moving forward.

 

SO...do I say something to my SIL and brother before they ask the kids....or do I just wait to see IF it happens.....we will see them for about 4 days.

 

On the same note....what do I tell my daughter to say to her friends who are going into pre-algebra, why she isn't?? She is so embarrased...but math is NOT her subject...

 

thanks.

[sassenach]

Hmm, that's a tough one. I don't think I'd bring it up. If it gets brought up, I'd probably be vague and change the subject.

 

I am curious about the blame going to MUS, though. I used MUS to rehab my dd's terrible k-3 public school math education and she went on to mus pre-algebra in 7th and public school algebra in 8th with no problem. Gamma (multiplication) is the 3rd year of mus. My point is not to heap blame, but to suggest misdiagnosis. If you haven't correctly identifies the problem, you won't issue the correct solution.

[Ellie]

I love my SIL and my brother very much. They are both teachers and I don't always think they agree with us 100% about our choice to homeschool. BUT, with that being said...the following senerio happened when my kids were in PS and has happened after we pulled them. But they like to talk to the kids about what they are learning in various subjects.

 

My children (but especially my daughter) are concerned that their aunt or uncle will ask them about what they are learning in math and my youngest and oldest are not at grade level with math right now...mostly because MUS messed us up....my dd is entering 7th grade and is NO where near pre-algebra (even though her PS friends are and she hates that too) and my youngest is going into 4th grade and we are just now starting Multiplication. Neither one of them have learning problems....it's just that MUS left huge gaps for us, and we are trying to fill in the gaps before moving forward.

 

SO...do I say something to my SIL and brother before they ask the kids....or do I just wait to see IF it happens.....we will see them for about 4 days.

 

On the same note....what do I tell my daughter to say to her friends who are going into pre-algebra, why she isn't?? She is so embarrased...but math is NOT her subject...

 

thanks.

I wouldn't borrow trouble by bringing it up first with the in-laws. And if they bring it up, I'd give a non-answer and move on. Even though their motives may be harmless (because talking about school with children is sort of like talking about the weather with adults, KWIM?), what your dc are actually doing isn't really any of their business, especially when it's likely to be the third degree and not just passing conversation.

 

I don't know that there's anything you can say to your dd that will actually make her feel better, but really, are *all* her public-school friends doing pre-algebra in *7th grade**??? What the heck? Even if that's so, why would there need to be conversations about it? I mean, do her friends bring it up?? o_0

[bolt.]

Teach them a script to say something like, "We're getting along fine, even though we havent mastered xyz yet. You can talk to my mom if you'd like to understand more about what we are learning and when." (But in their own words, so it doesn't sound like a script.)

 

Since they are not (I think) unschooled or self-led learners, it is you who is responsible for their "scope and sequence" -- encourage them to trust your judgement above the idea they it is best to track alongside the public scope and sequenced. Their education is individualized. All questions should be directed to you.

 

And you might want to stop any if your own talk regarding 'catching up' and 'grade level' -- those thing can be part if your goal-setting, but your students should not see themselves as "behind" just "doing this subject differently because mom thinks its better this way".

[marbel]

I wouldn't borrow trouble by bringing it up first with the in-laws. And if they bring it up, I'd give a non-answer and move on. Even though their motives may be harmless (because talking about school with children is sort of like talking about the weather with adults, KWIM?), what your dc are actually doing isn't really any of their business, especially when it's likely to be the third degree and not just passing conversation.

 

I don't know that there's anything you can say to your dd that will actually make her feel better, but really, are *all* her public-school friends doing pre-algebra in *7th grade**??? What the heck? Even if that's so, why would there need to be conversations about it? I mean, do her friends bring it up?? o_0

 

I agree with all, but esp. the bolded. And even if they are, are they all ready for it?  Probably not.

 

My kids have no idea how their friends are doing in math, what level they are, etc. In fact, mostly all they hear from their friends about school is how boring it is, how horrid the teachers are...  I'm sure not all of that is true, it's just what they talk about.  I'd work with my daughter to help her get over embarrassment, though.  There's more to life than being on grade level in math.

 

[Moxie]

Does math really come up among friends??

[Night Elf]

My dd15 goes to public school and she doesn't really discuss school with any of her friends except if they are in the same class and work together on figuring out an assignment. She wasn't even sure what classes her best friend was taking, which really surprised me. If your dd's friends specifically ask what she's learning, just tell her to say it's just plain old math. Maybe they won't ask her for specific examples. That would be really strange, IMHO.

[Halftime Hope]

never mind, didn't address OP's question

[Word Nerd]

Does math really come up among friends??

It must for the OP's DD and her friends since she knows they'll be taking pre-algebra, but I don't think that's typical. My DD doesn't even know yet what her class schedule will be in the fall, much less what they'll be learning this year in math. (Our school uses Saxon.)

[Halftime Hope]

Since, we had areas of "behindness" due to LDs, I taught my kids to answer our probing relatives with something along the lines of the following:

 

"I haven't studied X yet, because in my school we work until we've mastered something and then we move on.  I've been learning about Y (different subject), shall I tell you about it?"

 

YYMV with that approach, but my kids were confident chatter-boxes, so it worked out fine.   Although we coached that line for use in the extended family and at church (many teachers), the funny thing is that the couple of times (two that I remember) that my kids used that with peers, it elicited sighs of envy and groaning about how tough it was when the school kids didn't "get" something and they had to "move on" anyway.

[ProudGrandma]

there is one specific friend who, for whatever reason, brings math up once in a while...I am sure it's amplified in my daughter's mind...but it bothers her. But, I LOVE the response of "it's just plain math"...that's the perfect answer. I also like the idea of taching my dd to respond to other adults with, "I have no idea what we'll be learning this year"...because she honestly doesn't.

 

maybe blaming MUS is too strong, but this is our story...I thought it was working well...but when my dd and ds hit a wall with fractions. and my youngest wasn't getting multiplication using MUS and we had to find a different way to handle these skills...so we turned to MM..but that is when I realized that my kids knew very little about measuring, geometry, and a few other skills...

 

I had to take all of them back at least a grade level....and so that is where we are.

 

MUS isn't for every family and I know that it works well for many...and that is awesome...it just wasn't happening for us.

 

So, I guess it's not fair to "blame" MUS....but rather me....after all, I picked MUS...it didn't pick me...but it did leave gaps in OUR children's education.

[KungFuPanda]

Clearly there is some catching up to do, but that's no reason for the in-laws to make the kids uncomfortable. I suggest a more subtle approach. Not ALL of algebra/pre-algebra is so difficult that you need to knock out every pre-requisite. Some people find decimals and fractions a lot more difficult and boring than some of the algebra lessons. I say get your algebra program now. It'll help you to be familiar with it so you CAN catch up to grade level. Also, you'll likely find a few lessons that your kids CAN do. Teach a few of the easier concepts and let your kids talk about that. You all may need the confidence boost. You may even consider some sort of math club or tutoring just to keep the momentum up. Maybe even Aleks.com?

 

I do believe that most of your DDs friends are doing pre-algebra/algebra in middle school. My daughter's high school doesn't even offer a math class lower than Algebra 1. I went to high school just a generation ago when you could still take a general or consumer math course in 9th grade, but things seem to have stepped up a bit.

[happi duck]

Many math programs "spiral"...they do a little bit of everything every year.  I've noticed that the terms algebra and geometry are used early on so that young kids learning shapes know they are doing "geometry".  I've noticed that ps friends will say things like "oh, we already did algebra" and it isn't that they've really studied algebra, kwim? (btw, mus doesn't spiral)

 

I think you need to decide if "grade level" is important to you and your kids.  If it is then really go for it.

 

Another approach is to look at the big picture.  Here's what I mean.  For math our high school requires three classes with one being algebra and one being geometry.  (The third class can be before or after those two.)  Chemistry is also required and algebra must be completed before beginning chemistry.  For me the big picture was getting ready for high school math and Chemistry.  When one takes algebra it isn't a developmental milestone just a needed skill, kwim?

 

My dd started math from scratch when I pulled her from ps third grade.  She sometimes felt behind when other kids talked about math.  For us, having the big picture approach helped.  Btw, another thing about math discussed among children is terminology.  Sometimes ps teachers have their own terms for things.  I remember my kids feeling bad because they didn't know how to "some made up mathy term" but it was something they did know, just by another name.

 

So to answer your orignal question:  IMHO, I say "cut it off before it happens"...but by dealing with how you approach things.  There seems to be concern over being "caught" being "behind" or having gaps.  I guarantee that one can always find someone that is ahead and someone who is behind.  Make your goals and get on your track and try not to worry about what others are doing.  For example, "We're on track to do algebra in 10th grade."

 

Also, if you haven't already it might help to look at your high school's requirements.

 

 

 

 

[mrs.m]

Why start conflict that may only exist in your mind? Don't say anything unless it comes up. Surely they understand that kids are at different levels since they are teachers?  If it does come up, focus on discussing mastery and not grade levels.

[Eagle]

I would teach them to change the subject to something they would rather discuss. "Math is fine, but guess what we're studying in (insert favourite subject) -- (insert topic of interest)!!"

[sassenach]

there is one specific friend who, for whatever reason, brings math up once in a while...I am sure it's amplified in my daughter's mind...but it bothers her. But, I LOVE the response of "it's just plain math"...that's the perfect answer. I also like the idea of taching my dd to respond to other adults with, "I have no idea what we'll be learning this year"...because she honestly doesn't.

 

maybe blaming MUS is too strong, but this is our story...I thought it was working well...but when my dd and ds hit a wall with fractions. and my youngest wasn't getting multiplication using MUS and we had to find a different way to handle these skills...so we turned to MM..but that is when I realized that my kids knew very little about measuring, geometry, and a few other skills...

 

I had to take all of them back at least a grade level....and so that is where we are.

 

MUS isn't for every family and I know that it works well for many...and that is awesome...it just wasn't happening for us.

 

So, I guess it's not fair to "blame" MUS....but rather me....after all, I picked MUS...it didn't pick me...but it did leave gaps in OUR children's education

I'm sure the one friend brings it up because she can feel superior for a moment.  

 

I understand the MUS thing.  It was a poor retention issue.  I thought you were literally saying that you were "just now starting multiplication," not that you did Gamma but it wasn't retained. The scope and sequence is so different with MUS that if you have to jump ship, that definitely would cause some gaps.

[jelbe5]

Teach them a script to say something like, "We're getting along fine, even though we havent mastered xyz yet. You can talk to my mom if you'd like to understand more about what we are learning and when." (But in their own words, so it doesn't sound like a script.)

This is exactly what I have taught my daughters to say when necessary. My son is not in a position to answer such a question. I believe my parents (especially my dad) think my son could be "fixed" if he went to school. A few years ago I had to firmly tell my dad that homeschooling was a decision between my dh and myself and was not open to discussion.

 

I understand that my parents love us all and want what is best for their grand kids, but they fail to see that I am a grown woman and my dh and I are capable of making good choices for our family.

[Spy Car]

If it we me I'd have a friendly conversation with my brother in advance. It is hardly unusual that a pair of teachers would talk to their nieces about what they are learning (including math). I'd be honest about the situation, not be defensive, and alert them that quizzing the girls about math is something that it is best to avoid. Why be anxious?

 

Is there a subject where they are thriving and are eager to discuss?

 

As to PS grade level expectations, here taking pre-algebra in 7th Grade is normal, with 6th Grade being "accelerated"

 

I also find it pretty typical that kids talk about where they are in various subjects, and most especially in math.

 

Bill

[J-rap]

There is no need for you or your children to be embarrassed. I think if you act like it's no big deal, then your children will catch on to that attitude as well. My children always had public school friends and honestly, I don't think the subject of math ever came up! When your daughter brings it up with you, I wouldn't apologize and tell her she's far behind everyone else. I wouldn't bring that up with her at all. If she questions it, I'd just explain that you are doing things in a little different order than some people, but you'll get it all covered in plenty of time. I don't think she needs to know more than that!

 

At the same time, I'd equip her with some answers to people who might inquire, just in case. To her friend who might ask her what math she's in, she could just say, "I don't know, whatever math you do in 7th grade!" Really, she doesn't need to be any more specific than that, with anyone. If people keep pressing her, she can then say "Ask my mom!" And when YOU answer people, you don't need to be specific either, and you certainly don't need to apologize or explain the whole situation.

 

For what it's worth, I had two children who were slower in math and didn't do any pre-Algebra, just jumped into Algebra in 9th grade, and took a year and a half to do it. Those same two did one year of Geometry, and then a year and a half of Algebra II. They did just fine. :) One of them is at a good university, did very well on her SAT, and got a Presidential scholarship. The other hasn't yet applied at colleges but I'm sure she'll do just fine.

[Laurie4b]

A little off topic, but most elementary math books contain a ton of review of what has been learned the year before in each chapter. So if you teach what they need to know only (and don't do the review unless they absolutely need it) , you may be able to catch them up fairly quickly.

[BigMamaBird]

I would have them say something along the lines of "Math is going fine, I really like Subject XYZ though!" and have them explain about something they're really into.  

[T'smom]

I would tell bil and SIL that the kids didn't like being quizzed about school and leave it at that. I wouldn't say anything else. I wouldn't say the kids were behind or anything. Just "hey, the kids feel like they are being put on the spot when you ask them about school, maybe you could ask them about ABC instead".

[Unicorn.]

Have them roll their eyes back in their heads and say "Ugh, it's summer vacation!  I don't want to talk about school!  But hey, sibling and I found a turtle the other day..."  Other times, during the school year, just do what everyone else suggested, and have them change the subject. 

[marbel]

I would tell bil and SIL that the kids didn't like being quizzed about school and leave it at that. I wouldn't say anything else. I wouldn't say the kids were behind or anything. Just "hey, the kids feel like they are being put on the spot when you ask them about school, maybe you could ask them about ABC instead".

 

Schoolkids don't like to be quizzed about school either!    But it does depend on what questions are asked.  I wish my inlaws would ask my kids what they're studying, or reading, or enjoying - they ignore the topic of school/education completely.  

 

"What have you read/done lately that's been really interesting to you?"

 

vs

 

"How do you like algebra?  Not studying it yet?  Why not?"

[FaithManor]

If it we me I'd have a friendly conversation with my brother in advance. It is hardly unusual that a pair of teachers would talk to their nieces about what they are learning (including math). I'd be honest about the situation, not be defensive, and alert them that quizzing the girls about math is something that it is best to avoid. Why be anxious?

 

Is there a subject where they are thriving and are eager to discuss?

 

As to PS grade level expectations, here taking pre-algebra in 7th Grade is normal, with 6th Grade being "accelerated"

 

I also find it pretty typical that kids talk about where they are in various subjects, and most especially in math.

 

Bill

Bill nailed it!

 

Don't vilify the teachers for being curious. For those that are passionate about teaching, it's like cutting off your own arm to NOT be curious about what the kids in your extended family are learning. They don't mean to be nosy in a devious way. The intentions are good...this is just who.they.are. I'm a natural born teacher; love teaching, can't get enough of it. So, I sometimes have to bury it in order not to get on the wrong side of others. When I taught music, it was AWFUL if I met a kid who was taking music lessons or involved in a performance group who didn't want to talk about music....GAH.!!!!!!! Downright awful.

 

But, I also understand that for the sake of privacy, for the sake of not having your homeschooling being viewed as somehow unworthy, or your children feeling self-conscious, that you really don't want their math work to be a topic of discussion. Remembering this is an aunt and uncle, not some random Walmart clerk who should know better than to grill a kid on multiplication tables while ringing up toilet paper, do exactly what Bill suggested and have a friendly, heart to heart with your relatives. If you need to draw a line in the sand, then do so, but try to be diplomatic and tactful about it.

 

Also, remember, they are in the trenches as teachers. They see the entire gamut of students and sure, they've encountered a lot of kids that aren't ready for pre-algebra at 7th grade. They've seen special ed kids on the low functioning end, mild learning disabilities, normal abilities, above average abilities, and the upper end of special ed...the gifted kiddies that make a teacher's head spin off his or her shoulders with how fast they absorb, understand, and retain information. So, if you approach this in the right manner, privately, you never know, they might have some words of wisdom to share...some tricks of the trade, an idea how to present a math topic that you didn't think of....I would try, if they are truly loving, open people, to make they my allies in educating my children and not take an adversarial position unless they choose to take that side.

 

Gaps happen...they do....I have recently discovered that my 14 year old math and science gifted child cannot name all of the oceans or identify, of all places, ITALY!!!! on a map of Europe....oh my word, it's shaped like a boot....how many times was this drilled into us in school???? Gack! I.must.remediate.in.geography.

 

Same kid can tell me all about the intricacies of the ecology of far off places, he just can't find them on the map.

 

The good news is you've identified the problem, and you are seeking to remediate it. That's all any good teacher can do!!! It's all that needs to be done.

 

Faith