SOCIAL GROUP: Atheists, agnostics, free-thinkers, non-believers

[Audrey]

I'm not sure what "mindfulness classes" actually are. I'm assuming it is a meditation class?? With some readings thrown in??

 

 

 

I meditate. I am not a deist. I just find that clearing my head helps me stay sane-ish. I don't get dressed up to go do it with others, but to each their own.

 

 

 

I meditate a lot, too. It's a personal thing. I did take a transcendental meditation class way back in college. If I have someone Working with me (Witchy-wise) I might teach them a bit of meditation if they aren't already practicing it.

 

I'm kind of on the fence about classes for it. It could be helpful for some who don't quite know how to get to a meditative space, but I don't think it is necessary.

[Lady Florida.]

 

Well I see what you are saying. When my kids ask me how I feel about stuff or what I believe I am honest with them. But there isn't much to talk about with regards to my non religious beliefs because it feels odd to talk about nothing. Because it really is nothing. Does that make sense?

 

Yes, it makes sense and is more or less what I meant. I don't actually push my beliefs on ds, but I do make them known.

[Laura Corin]

I'm not an angry atheist, but I get very cross about people going on missions to other countries. I didn't get a refutation of post number 30 in this thread, funnily enough.

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

 

I don't like that either. It seems dishonest to me. They go in under the guise that they are there to help "those poor people" and it's about converting them to a religion . To me it's wrong to entice vulnerable people into your club.

 

I wonder if we have foreign missionaries in the US.

 

There are Christian American missionaries in the UK, because we haven't heard the true message. They come honestly as missionaries though, not under false pretences.

 

Laura

[Lady Florida.]

But you don't believe in nothing, I don't think. You believe in science. Why do we always think that doesn't count??

 

 

I don't consider it "believing in" science. I'm not sure of the best way to phrase it - I trust science. I accept science. I accept the mainstream scientific theories. I don't know. The thing about science is, if something is shown to be untrue, or even slightly different, then the new information is given weight. Religion (mostly) can't do that and still expect people to believe. Some religions can, but those are usually ones that aren't at odds with science in the first place.

 

 

I think some people really do have a "religion gene". They just need to believe in a "sky daddy" to feel safe. They're not necessarily irrational in other ways, but they don't want to feel they're on their own. Geezle has this tendency and I don't mind indulging it as long as he doesn't try to impose it on anyone else. I wouldn't let him even visit a hell and brimstone church because I don't want him to pick up on the idea that he has any idea about any one else's eternal destiny. But, I'll let him ask his god for favors and see how that works for him.

 

Trinqueta is an avowed atheist. It's easier for me to deal with her existential questions, but I do have to remind her that it's rude to call her brother stupid because he believes in a god. Either way, you've got a parenting challenge.

 

I can see that. If I had more than one child (dss was 14 when I met dh, so he was already on his way to adulthood) and one believed in a higher power, I wouldn't put him down for it. I won't pretend to know how I'd handle it because I've never BTDT.

 

 

Your birthday will be our NOTHING day!!

 

P.S. My mom's birthday is the 14th of August. Just an FYI... ;)

 

My dh and my brother also have August birthdays. See, August is turning out to be a month worth celebrating!

 

Anyone whose religion is more about patriarchy and politics than faith.

 

 

Yes, definitely.

[Rosie_0801]

I absolutely connect with a lot of the Aboriginals' Nature spirituality and practice, but that doesn't make me Aboriginal.

 

Yes. My brother and I talk about that sort of thing a lot in the context of Reconciliation; a word with the flavour of a new year's resolution. Something anyone who isn't an @rse wants, but has no plan on how to achieve. I've got to wondering whether anyone knows what they mean by the term. It's hard to achieve the undefined.

 

 

There are certainly religions I dislike more than others. The ones whose members are stressed and fearful.

 

Teaching my spiritual beliefs and practices to my kids weirds me out a bit. I don't care if they don't believe as I do, so the idea of teaching them to is absurd. On the other hand, to avoid teaching them would take deliberate effort and also be absurd because I am not in the habit of hiding from my kids and why should/would I? It's not like any of it is harmful and it is stuff that I do just like any other stuff that I do. So far my kids are too young for much of this, so it hasn't been an issue, but it'll be interesting to find out what we end up with. So far all that has happened is that dd wanted an altar to put her gemstones on, because that's where I keep mine. A chap gave her a small geode at the gem show last year and I bought her a quartz pillar because she liked it. I set up a little space in a glass fronted cupboard where her brother wouldn't pinch them, but she thought it was a rubbish altar because "real" altars also have candles. Not a chance of that, Kid!

[Lady Florida.]

 

Dh is not an atheist, though. He's not even a non-deist. He was raised Catholic, though, and I think that no matter how far he strays from the Church (and oh, boy-howdy, how far he has strayed!) he can't quite get to a point of totally setting aside the notion of .... Something Greater, even if he doesn't believe it is the Judeo-Christian god.

 

Dh was raised rather laid back United Methodist. He seems to have trouble letting go of the idea that there's "something" there, but it's no longer the Judeo-Christian god.

[Audrey]

I'm not an angry atheist, but I get very cross about people going on missions to other countries. I didn't get a refutation of post number 30 in this thread, funnily enough.

 

Laura

 

Oh, I have a real bone to pick with that, too. There are some local religious groups here that will go to other countries to "teach English," but what they are really doing is missionary stuff. Their churches find them these English teaching jobs and support their costs to go overseas. It is so egregiously disingenuous. :glare:

[Audrey]

Dh was raised rather laid back United Methodist. He seems to have trouble letting go of the idea that there's "something" there, but it's no longer the Judeo-Christian god.

 

 

It's sometimes a bone of contention between us. I don't see why, given his beliefs otherwise, he can't just admit there's no gods. He says he's not saying it's a god or gods. I don't see that there's any difference between "something greater" and "deities." It's a semantic argument mostly, but it has sometimes perplexed, bemused and infuriated me -- sometimes all three at once! :laugh:

 

There are odd little "catholic-y" things he still does, too, that make me do a double-take. It's funny and sad, really, that even though he will, as he says, "curse the Church with my last breath," he still crosses himself absent-mindedly in certain situations. It's like one of those Pavlovian conditioned responses.

[Rosie_0801]

I don't see that there's any difference between "something greater" and "deities."

 

I've got one! So it is possible. :p

[Audrey]

I've got one! So it is possible. :p

 

 

Explain it to me, Rosie? I do want to understand what he's getting at. I'm just having a hard time with wrapping my brain around how there's any difference.

[Rosie_0801]

Explain it to me, Rosie? I do want to understand what he's getting at. I'm just having a hard time with wrapping my brain around how there's any difference.

 

 

I don't know what he's getting at, but I can pm you with what I'm getting at. :)

[Audrey]

 

I don't know what he's getting at, but I can pm you with what I'm getting at. :)

 

Yes, please. :)

[LucyStoner]

There are odd little "catholic-y" things he still does, too, that make me do a double-take. It's funny and sad, really, that even though he will, as he says, "curse the Church with my last breath," he still crosses himself absent-mindedly in certain situations. It's like one of those Pavlovian conditioned responses.

 

I do stuff like that. I consider myself culturally Irish Catholic in a similar way that a non-practicing Jewish person is still Jewish despite a lack of religious belief. I once went to the grocery store, saw some nice miniature wreaths, bought one plue some candles and came home and decorated the table with them, adding a larger candle in the middle that I already had at home. I walked away and when I came back into the dining room I realized I had created myself a slightly modified advent wreath without setting out to do so. I just thought a little wreath might look nice and then thought, candles would be nice too. It sneaks up on you. :ph34r:

[LucyStoner]

 

 

I also took a Tai Chi class that had sort of meditative exercises too. I liked that class.

 

Come to think of it, I can trace the meditation to the Tai Chi class I took in high school and the meditation sessions that were available there. Yeah, I went to Hippie Dippy High.

[dbmamaz]

i'm still a little culturally jewish, but i think that has more to do with an emphasis on learning and cooking

 

as far as something greater thats not a deity? i sometimes like to say that there is a connection, that together all living things and the planet, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. kinda like a system or a symbiosis or something . . . but also like a 'psychic' connection. that doesnt sound anything like a deity, does it?

 

in fact, now that i think of it, its kinda based off of a friend who told me that the universe was really a single entity, but that sometimes it engages in the illusion of separateness, that all beings and objects are just illusions or projections of the unity that is the world, and that when things die, they just go back in to being the unity, but only because they've dropped the illusion of separateness. does THAT sound like a deity?

[Izzy]

Why is it ok to raise children while pushing a faith, but it's not ok to raise them while making your non belief very well known?

 

I dont force my beliefs on my kids, but if i were religious, it would ok to do so!

 

I do teach religion to them right along with other mythology stories. I'm also trying to make sure we study it as it shaped history.

 

If you're an "angry atheist," is there a certain religion that bugs you more than others?

 

I haven't talked about my beliefs with my kids too much but would be happy to discuss it with them if it came up. Religion is such a non issue around here so it doesn't comes up. I would never start a conversation with "this is what WE believe", more of a "this is what I believe - what do you believe" type of approach.

 

The only religions that really bug me are the Abrahamic religions. There's too many absolutes which lead to intolerance, fear, self-hatred, and proselytizing. I can deal with the more liberal denominations even though I don't really get it. If you can dissect the bible enough to take out all of the ugly parts then it's not really biblically based anymore. I'm fine with that, though, since you end up with a more humanistic religion which doesn't seem too harmful.

 

If one of my kids were to be interested in one of these religions I'd be sure to cover the good and the bad with them. I wouldn't let them attend church because I wouldn't want them getting sucked into god, Allah, or Jesus loves you before they knew all of the gotchas.

[Guest inoubliable]

Just checking in. I don't have much strength to do more than "like" posts here and there. My parents just left and I'm exhausted. Supposedly my father *just now* realize that I'm an atheist.

/sigh

He's known this for years. He chose this visit to try to bait me into arguments about religion.

 

At least it wasn't politics this time.

 

Mentally, I'm just exhausted.

 

Hope everyone is having a good weekend!

[Jennifer3141]

I do sometimes have moments of awe (for lack of a better way of putting it). I read something in a science book last week that gave me one of those moments. It said, "Our Sun is a third-generation star. All of the heavier elements that are found inside the Sun, in Earth, and even in our own bodies are part of two other stars that came and went ages ago. Isn't it amazing to know that everything in our solar system is made from recycled stardust?"

 

Whoa..is that not amazing!! And "something greater"!!!

 

I think so.

 

It was from this book:

 

http://www.amazon.co...the latest view

 

There was a FB meme like this going around a few months ago. It was basically a repsonse to the common quesiton of, "Why do atheists feel peaceful because they are going to hell after they die??" And the jist of it was, we are all made of the stuff of stars. We're going to die and degrade back into star materials. Why wouldn't you find peace in that??

 

Welcome back, KK!!! We're glad you survived! :)

[Izzy]

What do you all think of stuff like "mindfullness classes". I am not even sure what that is. I was told it's not religious in nature, but includes readings from religious books. I find that a bit confusing.

 

 

I've never heard of these classes. I have heard of meditation classes which I would be interested in if I ever have the extra time. :)

[Izzy]

I'm not an angry atheist, but I get very cross about people going on missions to other countries. I didn't get a refutation of post number 30 in this thread, funnily enough.

 

Laura

 

This:

 

"Exactly. It sounds like some of the worst kind of bigotry and ethnocentrism to invade (and yes, I used that word purposely) another person's culture/country to try to engender them to your religion. :glare:

 

"You are NOT good enough as you are. I MUST convert you to MY way of thinking!" :001_huh:"

[chiguirre]

in fact, now that i think of it, its kinda based off of a friend who told me that the universe was really a single entity, but that sometimes it engages in the illusion of separateness, that all beings and objects are just illusions or projections of the unity that is the world, and that when things die, they just go back in to being the unity, but only because they've dropped the illusion of separateness. does THAT sound like a deity?

 

It sounds like the Tao. IMHO, it's not a deity, but I'm sure other people would say that it is.

[Izzy]

 

 

 

It's sometimes a bone of contention between us. I don't see why, given his beliefs otherwise, he can't just admit there's no gods. He says he's not saying it's a god or gods. I don't see that there's any difference between "something greater" and "deities." It's a semantic argument mostly, but it has sometimes perplexed, bemused and infuriated me -- sometimes all three at once! :laugh:

 

There are odd little "catholic-y" things he still does, too, that make me do a double-take. It's funny and sad, really, that even though he will, as he says, "curse the Church with my last breath," he still crosses himself absent-mindedly in certain situations. It's like one of those Pavlovian conditioned responses.

 

 

I can relate to your DH. It's tough to explain but the superstitions get stuck in your brain even after you know they aren't real. I can't bring myself to say there absolutely isn't a deity and I'm not sure I ever will. The best description I've heard about coming out of religion is it being one big mind****. That pretty much sums it up.

[chiguirre]

I consider myself culturally Catholic too. I still hold onto a lot of the traditions. Like I do celebrate Christmas and Easter. I love religious Christmas music. On Good Friday I purposely eat meat to show what a rebel I am (been doing that since forever). I enjoy Catholic mass and don't mind going when invited by family members for a special event. My only thought when I'm there is that this is great if they would just stop saying Jesus.

 

 

You know what blew my mind in Venezuela (a super duper Catholic country where a fair % of the buses have madonnas painted on them), they totally blow off the "no meat on Friday in Lent rule" that's so iron-clad here. The really religious types fast on Good Friday (as in, eat a bare minimum, not a strict fast like Ramadan) everybody else just eats whatever, often while enjoying their extra long weekend on the beach.

 

And I can totally identify with your experience at mass. I have to go twice a month when T and G sing in the children's choir. It is very peaceful and lovely and then the prayers start.

[chiguirre]

What do you all think of stuff like "mindfullness classes". I am not even sure what that is. I was told it's not religious in nature, but includes readings from religious books. I find that a bit confusing.

 

 

You're going to laugh, but there's even a Teaching Company class on it. Mindfulness is totally mainstream and middle brow!

 

 

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=1933

[Izzy]

 

as far as something greater thats not a deity? i sometimes like to say that there is a connection, that together all living things and the planet, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. kinda like a system or a symbiosis or something . . . but also like a 'psychic' connection. that doesnt sound anything like a deity, does it?

 

in fact, now that i think of it, its kinda based off of a friend who told me that the universe was really a single entity, but that sometimes it engages in the illusion of separateness, that all beings and objects are just illusions or projections of the unity that is the world, and that when things die, they just go back in to being the unity, but only because they've dropped the illusion of separateness. does THAT sound like a deity?

 

 

This resembles what I *think* I believe. I haven't thought about it too much but I feel like we are all connected to each other and to nature somehow. I haven't worked out all of the details though. :p

[Izzy]

Just checking in. I don't have much strength to do more than "like" posts here and there. My parents just left and I'm exhausted. Supposedly my father *just now* realize that I'm an atheist.

/sigh

He's known this for years. He chose this visit to try to bait me into arguments about religion.

 

At least it wasn't politics this time.

 

Mentally, I'm just exhausted.

 

Hope everyone is having a good weekend!

 

 

Ugh. Sorry you had such a rough time. MIL started grilling us about church again last night. I'm not looking forward to the moment she actually figures out we aren't ever going to go and don't believe in her god anymore. Hope you're feeling better soon.

[Izzy]

 

 

You're going to laugh, but there's even a Teaching Company class on it. Mindfulness is totally mainstream and middle brow!

 

 

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=1933

 

 

I bookmarked this. :D

[HRAAB]

as far as something greater thats not a deity? i sometimes like to say that there is a connection, that together all living things and the planet, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. kinda like a system or a symbiosis or something . . . but also like a 'psychic' connection. that doesnt sound anything like a deity, does it?

 

That's pretty much what I think, but I've never considered myself an atheist (most days, anyway). Right now I'm reading The Magic of Reality with my younger girls, and I keep thinking to myself how awesome science is. It's so much bigger, grander, awesomer than any creation myth. It actually feels rather spiritual to me although I'm sure that's not what Dawkins intended. Anyway, maybe I don't understand what deity means exactly, or maybe I'm just trying to create my own god - one that I can get along with and respect.

[delaney]

Sorry KK, I can relate. My mom keeps asking me when we will get the youngest baptized. Ummm...why should I is what I say to her. She does not like that answer.

[dbmamaz]

i guess i assumed a deity is a separate being . . .

 

 

de·i·ty

a god or goddess.

2.

divine character or nature, especially that of the Supreme Being; divinity..

3.

the estate or rank of a god: The king attained deity after his death.

4.

a person or thing revered as a god or goddess: a society in which money is the only deity.

5.

the Deity, God; Supreme Being.

So, i guess #2 includes what I said. i didnt really realize that was part of the definition. i also dont really believe its 'real' like science, i just think its an analogy that brings me comfort sometimes.

 

note - the paste totally messed up formatting

[Desert Rat]

Sorry you had a rough time, KK.

 

My mom once told me that I would be a Christian if I just studied the Bible more. I reminded her that she sent me to a Lutheran school for 8 years and had me under her thumb for 18 years total, cramming religion down my throat until the day I turned 18. Seriously. Her rule was that I didn't have to go to church on Sunday, but I didn't *have* to do anything other than school/work the rest of the week either. I said that I thought I had given her religion enough of a chance. Thankyouverymuch.

 

That I can remember, she has never brought it up again.

 

However, I did have both of my boys baptized. Why on earth would an atheist (agnostic then) baptize her children? Because I love, love, love my parents. I honor them and respect them. It was so crazy important to them to have the boys baptized. And ultimately, they were under 3 months old and it did no harm to them. It meant nothing to me but meant so much to my parents. My dad said they were two of the happiest days of his lives. The day he could show his boys off to his god and his church family. Totally worth it and I would do it again in a heartbeat.

[LucyStoner]

My sons were baptized as well. My Catholic mother was living on borrowed time when my oldest was born. We did a wedding for her, I wore a white dress for her and I baptized the boys for her. She was an amazing and loving woman. Anything I could do to give her a little much deserved joy while she was alive, I was going to do. They are none the worse for wear.

[Desert Rat]

Good to not be alone, Katie. Thank you for that.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Mine were baptized at over 3 years because my father's wife wouldn't let it go. It means nothing to me, but i do wish i had stood my ground with her!

[Ipsey]

Just a vent this morning. I feel physically crummy, and then to see this. . . .

Where we used to live, I had one whole non-Christian friend in the homeschooling group. She started going to church about the time I joined reality and stopped believing in religious stories.

Recently, she's gone full Christian. On her FB this morning, she posted a link to a "beautiful, powerful testimony" of a "liberal, atheist, lesbian professor" who _didn't want to_! but became a Christian (and got turned straight in the process, donchaknow!)

 

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013/january-february/my-train-wreck-conversion.html?utm_source=ctweekly-html&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_term=12143743&utm_content=152472477&utm_campaign=2013&start=3

 

I don't need this. I actually changed my settings so I'll only get "important" updates from her from now on. If I were a better person I wouldn't do that. But, honestly, I can't take this @#$.

[LaxMom]

Just a vent this morning. I feel physically crummy, and then to see this. . . .

Where we used to live, I had one whole non-Christian friend in the homeschooling group. She started going to church about the time I joined reality and stopped believing in religious stories.

Recently, she's gone full Christian. On her FB this morning, she posted a link to a "beautiful, powerful testimony" of a "liberal, atheist, lesbian professor" who _didn't want to_! but became a Christian (and got turned straight in the process, donchaknow!)

 

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013/january-february/my-train-wreck-conversion.html?utm_source=ctweekly-html&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_term=12143743&utm_content=152472477&utm_campaign=2013&start=3

 

I don't need this. I actually changed my settings so I'll only get "important" updates from her from now on. If I were a better person I wouldn't do that. But, honestly, I can't take this @#$.

Ack! I would hide all her posts... What if that - and others like it - is an "important" one? Blech.

 

Hope you feel better. :(

[Guest inoubliable]

Thanks, everyone.

 

Ipsey, I hope you feel better!

 

Both of my older boys are baptized, actually. And it's something that I find a lot of Catholics-turned-atheist do. I think it's something about the culture of Catholicism. Especially if a lot of family members are still in the RCC. We did it because my parents just would. not. shut. up. about. it. Besides, that, we were trying to get our kids into the local Catholic academy that I went to as a kid. When I went, there was a waiver for non-Catholic kids where they could sit out religion class and Mass. We were good with that, and the tuition break we'd get if we had the kids baptized and registered with the parish. Then we found out the waiver no longer existed. After they told us that it did. Since it was the principal herself and not just the priest who told us that, we were a bit angry at finding out AFTERwards. Anyway. Lots of ex-Catholics that I know have baptized kids. Usually as a nod to their family. It means nothing to me and nothing to my kids.

 

Rough, rough weekend here. The parents are gone, but now I'm dealing with some lender stuff and I'm so angry about it all. Nothing within our control, not our screw up, and the mortgage people won't even return our phone calls/emails to explain it. Now I have to start from square one with another lender tomorrow and hope that it moves quickly enough that we don't lose out on the house we want. Argh!

[Izzy]

Just a vent this morning. I feel physically crummy, and then to see this. . . .

Where we used to live, I had one whole non-Christian friend in the homeschooling group. She started going to church about the time I joined reality and stopped believing in religious stories.

Recently, she's gone full Christian. On her FB this morning, she posted a link to a "beautiful, powerful testimony" of a "liberal, atheist, lesbian professor" who _didn't want to_! but became a Christian (and got turned straight in the process, donchaknow!)

 

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013/january-february/my-train-wreck-conversion.html?utm_source=ctweekly-html&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_term=12143743&utm_content=152472477&utm_campaign=2013&start=3

 

I don't need this. I actually changed my settings so I'll only get "important" updates from her from now on. If I were a better person I wouldn't do that. But, honestly, I can't take this @#$.

 

 

That article is so sad. Look at these quotes from her conversion:

 

"With tremors, I whispered, "J, what if it is true? What if Jesus is a real and risen Lord? What if we are all in trouble?"

 

"The image that came in like waves, of me and everyone I loved suffering in hell, vomited into my consciousness and gripped me in its teeth."

 

So this guy and his wife disguise themselves as friends and try to convert her for 2 years. An entire church was praying for her for 2 years. Don't churches have more pressing needs then wasting 2 years trying to convert 1 person from her heathen lesbian ways?

[Izzy]

Thanks, everyone.

 

Ipsey, I hope you feel better!

 

Both of my older boys are baptized, actually. And it's something that I find a lot of Catholics-turned-atheist do. I think it's something about the culture of Catholicism. Especially if a lot of family members are still in the RCC. We did it because my parents just would. not. shut. up. about. it. Besides, that, we were trying to get our kids into the local Catholic academy that I went to as a kid. When I went, there was a waiver for non-Catholic kids where they could sit out religion class and Mass. We were good with that, and the tuition break we'd get if we had the kids baptized and registered with the parish. Then we found out the waiver no longer existed. After they told us that it did. Since it was the principal herself and not just the priest who told us that, we were a bit angry at finding out AFTERwards. Anyway. Lots of ex-Catholics that I know have baptized kids. Usually as a nod to their family. It means nothing to me and nothing to my kids.

 

Rough, rough weekend here. The parents are gone, but now I'm dealing with some lender stuff and I'm so angry about it all. Nothing within our control, not our screw up, and the mortgage people won't even return our phone calls/emails to explain it. Now I have to start from square one with another lender tomorrow and hope that it moves quickly enough that we don't lose out on the house we want. Argh!

 

 

It sounds like your original lender kept screwing things up. Hopefully finding a new lender will help things go smoother. How does that work? Are you getting a new mortgage broker too?

[Mom-ninja.]

 

 

Why did the affairs article depress you? Are you ok? Want to talk about it?

 

Please do tell us if the magazine is worth picking up!

 

 

Eh, I'm fine. Just struggling with the idea that humans technically aren't made to be monogamous. Add to that the fact that I'm getting older, gravity and pregnancies are having their toll on my body, and I'm not healthy in the sense that I once was. I deal with autoimmune issues and dh has to deal with that too.

 

Like last night he took me on a date for my birthday. We rarely rarely go out without our kids. He arranged for my parents to watch the kids, bought tickets, and kept it all a surprise. Before the show (Cirque du Soleil which I've wanted to see for years) he took me to a gluten free bakery so I could pick out some birthday cupcakes. I did. Then literally 5 minutes before the show started I got sick. I felt the all too familiar sensation of my body reacting to gluten. We had to leave. It was a horrible (and long!) ride home.

 

Now, why the h#ll did I get sick? It's supposed to be a GF bakery! Did I get gluten on my hands from the outside table or chairs? Was there gluten in the cupcakes? In the frosting? In the chocolate on the strawberry? I have no idea. All I know is that I got sick. I know it was gluten because it's a very distinct feeling from gluten.

 

We missed the show. He spent a pretty penny on the tickets. He also had something special worked out with the show for my birthday. I don't know what as he hasn't told me. The whole afternoon he was excited and making hints saying, "Just wait. You'll see." When he picked up the tickets he made me stand over to the side so I couldn't hear the conversation. He and the person who took us to our seat were both very insistent that I sit in a particular seat. Then BAM! 5 minutes before the show starts I have to leave.

 

It depresses me. It depresses me that I ruined dh's special plans. It depresses me that he can't even enjoy a nice evening out with his wife because she's "defective." Yes, I feel defective.

 

So then I really start to think about the stats of marriage breakup and adultery. I think about everything I've read that says genetically humans are not meant to be monogamous. I think about the fact that it is "natural and instinctive" for (mostly but not exclusively males) to leave their mate and look for a younger, healthier version because instinct (usually on a subconscious level) directs them to spread their genes as far and as much as possible. The author makes a point to say that just because something is "natural or instinctive" does not make it good. Nature and evolution are not "interested" in a being's happiness but only in reproduction and serves that goal only.

 

It's depressing to read also that in the majority of affairs the couple had a happy and healthy marriage, and it's not until *after* the affair that the cheating spouse then changes his/her perception of the marriage to that of one with problems. Humans change the truth to fit their reality to minimize guilt/shame.

 

So there. It's depressing. And it doesn't help that I'm still under the crappy effects of having gotten gluten somehow. It also drives me crazy NOT knowing how I got gluten.

[Χά�ων]

My ex had a fit because I refused to baptize DS.

 

His bible that he had displayed in the living room had a clear inch of dust from lack of use and he had to google directions to the family church because he had only been once or twice for family things. Yeah, not buying that he was so committed to his faith that his son being baptized was a huge deal. I think he was a jerk and only wanted to do it because I was firmly against it.

[Guest inoubliable]

It sounds like your original lender kept screwing things up. Hopefully finding a new lender will help things go smoother. How does that work? Are you getting a new mortgage broker too?

 

 

Well the original broker we were working with is just too busy, apparently. Our loan needs aren't the big payday that the $1mil+ crowd will bring him, kwim? So he and his assistant just didn't follow up on things. We gave them everything they requested, made payments that they requested. And then they were supposed to check on something, request a rescore, and take it to the lender to get our pre-approval letter. They didn't do any of that. They're just sitting on our documents. Both the realtor and I were calling and emailing all week last week. Not one response. So the realtor said that he was afraid this would happen and we'd given him the approval to approach someone he knows at a local branch of a big bank. It looks like we'll be working directly with BB&T now.

 

It's just so stressful, the whole thing. And doubly so, when other parties aren't doing their jobs.

[Guest inoubliable]

So there. It's depressing. And it doesn't help that I'm still under the crappy effects of having gotten gluten somehow. It also drives me crazy NOT knowing how I got gluten.

 

 

Oh. :(

 

:grouphug:

 

I hope you start feeling better soon. I agree that the stuff you were reading can be a depressing bit of information. It sounds, though, like you won't have any of those issues. Your DH sounds very sweet. I am so sorry that you didn't get to enjoy the evening. I am glad, though, that you have such a sweet DH who planned out such a lovely evening for you. It sounds as though he is VERY much interested in your happiness. :grouphug:

[Ipsey]

 

 

 

It's just so stressful, the whole thing. And doubly so, when other parties aren't doing their jobs.

 

Oooh! I do hope it gets resolved soon. A mortgage is such a darn lot of money; anything to do with them is such a raging stress.

[Ipsey]

That article is so sad. Look at these quotes from her conversion:

 

"With tremors, I whispered, "J, what if it is true? What if Jesus is a real and risen Lord? What if we are all in trouble?"

 

"The image that came in like waves, of me and everyone I loved suffering in hell, vomited into my consciousness and gripped me in its teeth."

 

So this guy and his wife disguise themselves as friends and try to convert her for 2 years. An entire church was praying for her for 2 years. Don't churches have more pressing needs then wasting 2 years trying to convert 1 person from her heathen lesbian ways?

 

I felt the same. A woman with a happy life, career, partnership. Then, she becomes convinced that a boogie man is going to destroy her unless she worships him. Now, she looks back on her previous life a "shiny" dangerous "knife"?

 

Ahh, the joy of religion.

 

Dh and I are on the recovery from the flu. We've never had it before. Unreal. We've done little but sleep for nearly a week. The first day we could barely get out of bed. Shivers, sweats, fever on-and-off constantly. He's been home for a week now. We sort of just muddle through the best we can, negotiating who will do what. We vaccinated--we always do, but we got the flu this year. Dang. I have to drop off daughter at Girl Scout thing today and am trying to rest up so I have the energy to drive her there. However, we're getting better, slowly but surely.

[Jennifer3141]

 

Oh. :(

 

:grouphug:

 

I hope you start feeling better soon. I agree that the stuff you were reading can be a depressing bit of information. It sounds, though, like you won't have any of those issues. Your DH sounds very sweet. I am so sorry that you didn't get to enjoy the evening. I am glad, though, that you have such a sweet DH who planned out such a lovely evening for you. It sounds as though he is VERY much interested in your happiness. :grouphug:

 

 

This. Totally.

 

I'm so sorry you have to deal with the gluten thing, Kleine. Have you told your DH about how you feel regarding the defective adjective? That feels powerful to me for some reason. I hope your tummy is all better today.

 

KK, that is awful!!! I had a rotten banking experience this week too. I cannot wait to leave Chase Bank in a few months. I'm going to giggle all the way outta there.

[LucyStoner]

I think if my mom was judgmental or pushy about it, we would have skipped the wedding (which we did after we eloped) and the baptisms. We knew however that it would make her happy. My mother had a hard life and then got cancer in her 40s which she beat back for 14 years before dying at 55. We both felt that given those circumstances and her open mindedness about pretty much everything , it was the very least we could do. We buried her out of the Catholic church as well.

[LucyStoner]

I felt the same. A woman with a happy life, career, partnership. Then, she becomes convinced that a boogie man is going to destroy her unless she worships him. Now, she looks back on her previous life a "shiny" dangerous "knife"?

 

Ahh, the joy of religion.

 

Dh and I are on the recovery from the flu. We've never had it before. Unreal. We've done little but sleep for nearly a week. The first day we could barely get out of bed. Shivers, sweats, fever on-and-off constantly. He's been home for a week now. We sort of just muddle through the best we can, negotiating who will do what. We vaccinated--we always do, but we got the flu this year. Dang. I have to drop off daughter at Girl Scout thing today and am trying to rest up so I have the energy to drive her there. However, we're getting better, slowly but surely.

 

I agree about the article. Because of the judgment I see directed at my brother and his husband, I have a special loathing reserved for people working to "convert" and "cure" gay people.

 

I hope you both feel better very soon. The flu is the pits.

[LucyStoner]

KK- have you looked at any credit unions or savings and loans for mortgages? Many service their own loans, which is way nicer than having it sold to BoA.