Honors college - worth it?

[momofkhm]

DD has been invited to apply at an honors college at one of the schools she has been accepted to. DH and I want her to apply. She is hesitant because she will be a humanities major at an engineering school. Let me rephrase that - they have other very good programs but they are known for engineering. (DS mentioned engineering once and this school popped into my head without conscience thought.) Anyway, when we went to the open house and toured the honors dorms/program, there was one student leading us who was humanities and the other 2 were both STEM. So now dd thinks everyone in the honors program is STEM and she'd be the odd one out.

 

Yesterday we were with my aunt at a baby shower and knowing how pushy aunt was with cousin, I figured she would be all over honors college. Cousin had a horrible time with honors college! He hated it, was competing for top spots against people who had been in that class twice already. (I don't understan this really. But it sounded like it wasn't just that he had to score well in the class, he had to be in the top % in the class.) Then cousin's wife came over and she echoed the sentiment that you get nothing for it.

 

I was under the impression that yes there are extra classes to take, but that it actually does look better if you go on to grad school or for your first job. Just like the AP classes and dual enrollment in high school look better to college, honors college looks better. True or not?

[Laura Corin]

Husband went to the Plan 2 section of University of Texas, Austin. It was a college-within-a-college - much more personal and enjoyable for him. This was a long time ago though.

 

Laura

[Jane in NC]

I suspect that the perks of honors colleges vary from school to school. At some places, students live in better dorms or have first dibs during the registration process. One of my son's friends who is in an honors college within the UNC system has made some excellent connections through receptions with outside visitors to campus. His capstone project is being highly influenced by someone he met in this manner.

 

My niece was in an honors college at a large Midwestern university. Her peers within the college were go-getters who have become lifelong friends. Her "college" within a college gave her the LAC experience while still having the perks of the large research campus.

[Candid]

I agree with Jane and suggest that you investigate the program she has been invited to participate in. I would guess that the event you went to might have been staffed totally by volunteers which might just be luck of the draw rather than staffed by a true proportion of the students, harder to know though. So find out that and find out how the program works.

 

See if you can find someone who went to this program to talk to.

[Wheres Toto]

My oldest was invited to join the Honors program at her university. She would have been able to live in a special dorm and would be required to take certain classes. She decided against it partially because some of the required courses were higher level history courses and history is her worst/least favorite subject, and partially because the extra classes would have made it hard for her to do the 5 year bachelor/masters program she wants to do for her major plus her minor.

[JFSinIL]

At ds's LAC he got accepted into Honors - and decided at the very last minute - at on-campus registration for new freshman - that he did not want to be in it. I found a academic dean and told them my last act of helicoptering was to ask them to PLEASE get ds to take Honors - I knew from home schooling and then public high school (where I made him go into AP and Honors) that that was the kind of student he was. The Dean did talk to ds and got him to agree to take Honors.

 

Now, this LAC had an incoming class of about 750 kids. Only 20 were accepted each into General (more humanities) or Logos (more math/logic) Honors. Since ds had opted out initially, a wait-listed kid was allowed in Logos - then ds allowed to go back in, so they had 21 kids. Turns out this wait-listed kid was and is a GREAT honors student, so by a fluke it really worked out for him! The Honors kids had their own track of required freshman courses to take, and ds admits he loved them - and that he'd have been bored stiff in the regular track of required courses. Yes, once again mom knew best - yah Mom! ;-) He has made some good friends in Honors, where he simply found more nerdlings like himself.

 

He also took a two-class sophomore Honors session, and has kept his grades up. Next year as a senior he will do an Honors Capstone project and be able to graduate with Honors.

 

So it depends on the school. For ds, Honors at this school, like AP and Honors in the public high school, helped him meet kids like himself that he'd otherwise probably miss in the larger student body of typical kids. If your student is already going to a more selective college, they might not need Honors to meet other kids on their wavelength. Perks like early registration and/or housing are great, too - if offered. DS's LAC does not have them.I just remembered - one of the required Honors freshman courses for Logos was a math course ds was sure he'd HATE! Turns out he loved the challenge of it and the professor! Sometimes the harder courses are the most worthwhile!

[Luckymama]

My ds is in Honors at a large university. In his case

 

--freshmen Honors students live in the same dorm "complex"----the floors are smaller so it's easier to get to know your neighbors

--all freshmen Honors students take special sections of the required "first year experience" course

--all freshmen Honors students take another course (I think it was just one credit though, so no effect on scheduling)

--there are Honors-only sections of many courses which by their nature are much smaller

--if there isn't an Honors-only section for a course (because it is only offered once or a few times that semester), Honors students have extra or expanded assignments to make the course into an "Honors" course

--students must take a certain percentage of Honors courses to graduate with an Honors designation (this is difficult for some majors or double majors, btw)

--the students must maintain a certain GPA to stay within Honors

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Lots of folks above have pointed out what I was going to say--honors colleges can been an advatage at large universities. They often offer smaller social groups; private libraries and computing centers; special courses, sections, discussion groups or registration preferences; dedicated housing; college based classrooms and profs offices are often located in the same building; etc. In a univeristy of 10 of thousands of students it can provide an experience that is closer to that of a small college. Some honors colleges do have a great reputation with graduate schools as well. It really is institution specific so it will probably take extra research to make a good solid decision.

[Dmmetler]

I will say that it helped in my gen ed classes but not in my major-since music was already a "school within a school" there weren't very many kids who even tried the honors college, so it separated me from the other music majors, and ran into issues (had I lived in housing with other music majors, it would have been typical to practice in the dorms, not at the music building. In Honors housing, I couldn't do that because they were "quiet study" dorms. I do think I would have been bored in the English/Humanities-type classes had I not been in honors. Honors, at my school, wasn't so much extra classes as higher level, more writing intensive versions of the regular ones, and I ate it up-but it wasn't my overwhelming obsession in the way it was for many of my classmates, because I left that in the music school. I don't think it hurt me-but I do think that if you have a different focus than the other folks in the honors college, it can be less beneficial than if they truly are others "like you".

 

FWIW, the people I'm still in contact with from college came neither from the honors program or my major, but from Alpha Phi Omega.

[Barbara H]

Yes, honors programs vary widely from school to school. If anything these programs most often tend to be MORE humanities oriented, so the students who resist joining are often STEM majors who think they seminar courses will be harder. So, that may explain why there were more STEM guides because they are trying to reach out to these students. If she's a humanities kid at a school more known for engineering, honors may be exactly where she meets her peer group.

 

Benefits vary widely, but here are some:

• Honors seminars which substitute for general education requirements
  
• Honors only sections of some freshman courses
  
• Some social/group component - speakers, clubs, etc.
  
• Honors only housing
  
• Better advising
  
• Priority registration (particularly at big schools this can be a HUGE benefit)
  
• Increased support for applying for undergraduate research funds and nationally competitive scholarships
  
• Capstone or senior thesis type projects
  
• Graduating with honors
  

 

 

It is quite common for students who are cautious to fear that honors will be too hard. I would reassure her that if it was going to be too hard for her they wouldn't admit her because they don't want students who won't do well. I would encourage her to look very specifically at what this Honors College offers. She can always give it a try and decide to let it go later.

[FaithManor]

I suspect that the perks of honors colleges vary from school to school. At some places, students live in better dorms or have first dibs during the registration process. One of my son's friends who is in an honors college within the UNC system has made some excellent connections through receptions with outside visitors to campus. His capstone project is being highly influenced by someone he met in this manner.

 

My niece was in an honors college at a large Midwestern university. Her peers within the college were go-getters who have become lifelong friends. Her "college" within a college gave her the LAC experience while still having the perks of the large research campus.

 

 

I echo Jane's thoughts on this. However, every college is going to vary some in environment so you just need to visit, get a list of the reqs, talk to students in the honors program, etc.

 

Beware of one scam though. DD had a college make an offer to her, one that did not have an actual honors college but some scaled down version of an honors program. Everyone who received the dean's scholarship - 75% tuition and fees only, did not include room and board or books - had to live in "honor's housing". This apparently was their way to make it look like an honor's college. However, there was NO difference in the honor's program vs. the regular route, but the housing cost $2500.00 per year more and was only somewhat nicer than the other dorms. Of course, the scholarship didn't cover housing so this was a BIG money maker for the school. A true scam if you ask me because I'm sure many unsuspecting students thought they were being invited to attend an actual "college within a college" only to end up paying a bigger price tag via. room and board for the exact same class offerings and lifestyle as the rest of the students. DD wrote them a very courteous, but matter-of-fact letter stating what she thought of such tactics. Of course, she ended up attending U of M and taking some of her Gen Ed classes at an extension campus and crashing at an aunt's house whenever she needed to so she could register as a commuter and save the cost of housing since we live 2 hrs. from the main campus, but this aunt lives about 20 in. depending on traffic.

 

When I was in college, we didn't have an "honor's college" per se for the music department, but the faculty and administration worked out housing, honor's courses, etc. for the big scholarship recipients which meant we were sort of our own mini-culture on campus. I loved it! My experiences with that group was life-changing in a positive way which makes me think that the right honor's college could be a wonderful thing for the student who is driven and has an outgoing personality.

 

Faith

[EducationX2]

I agree with those who have said to investigate the specific program more. It's one of those things that is going to vary widely by school.

 

He has made some good friends in Honors, where he simply found more nerdlings like himself.

 

This!! I'm in the honors program at a state university. I *LOVE* it. I have a hard time making friends, because I'm a little older and have a child, (Okay, let's not make excuses. I've always had a hard time making friends! :lol: ) All of the friends I have made are from the honors program. The smaller, discussion based courses really encourage both a higher level of academics and making social bonds. Smaller classes also mean that you are generally taking classes over and over again with the same people. Next semester I'm taking a course with 12 people in it, and I know for a fact that at least 6 of those people are good friends of mine. And, speaking of classes, honors classes can also be more interesting. I'm taking glassblowing! It's a course not typically available to those outside the art program, but they are running a special semester.

 

Also, at my university, we have an honors house. It has a computer lab, two living room/social areas to hang out in, a piano, a full kitchen we can use, a ping pong table, a TV.... the computer lab is GREAT, because sometimes the other labs get full. Plus, it's a great place for hanging out. We do seasonal pot luck/parties. No alcohol, just a bunch of food and fun. We take field trips also. Last year a group of us went to see The Two Gentlemen of Verona in DC for free. I also got to participate in a research conference just for honors students in Baltimore. The honors program paid for our registrations, hotel, transportation, and we had SO. MUCH. FUN. This coming semester, I'm doing two honors-specific conferences, one in MD and one in Philly.

 

I seriously can't say enough good about my university's honors program. It's been amazing. But the only way to find out how it is at that specific school would be to ask more questions. Visit the webpage, if there is one. See if you can set up a day to visit, often they will let incoming students shadow a current student for the day.

[QueenCat]

I was under the impression that yes there are extra classes to take, but that it actually does look better if you go on to grad school or for your first job. Just like the AP classes and dual enrollment in high school look better to college, honors college looks better. True or not?

 

At ds' school, you do not take "extra" classes. Instead, many of the core class are Honors Program sections. You must be in the Honors Program to take those sections. The dorm for the honors students is older but they are all singles so no roommate, more privacy. They have their own Honors Hall, where the Honors Program head has her office, several classrooms, a computer lab and a very nice lounge. The lounge has some recreational things in it, for just hanging out, plus they have socials there. The honors head tries to keep the fridge loaded with goodies too. The honors program (not actually a separate college at ds school) is the only reason he considered this particular school.

[Tree Frog]

I echo Jane's thoughts on this. However, every college is going to vary some in environment so you just need to visit, get a list of the reqs, talk to students in the honors program, etc.

 

Beware of one scam though. DD had a college make an offer to her, one that did not have an actual honors college but some scaled down version of an honors program. Everyone who received the dean's scholarship - 75% tuition and fees only, did not include room and board or books - had to live in "honor's housing". This apparently was their way to make it look like an honor's college. However, there was NO difference in the honor's program vs. the regular route, but the housing cost $2500.00 per year more and was only somewhat nicer than the other dorms. Of course, the scholarship didn't cover housing so this was a BIG money maker for the school. A true scam if you ask me because I'm sure many unsuspecting students thought they were being invited to attend an actual "college within a college" only to end up paying a bigger price tag via. room and board for the exact same class offerings and lifestyle as the rest of the students. DD wrote them a very courteous, but matter-of-fact letter stating what she thought of such tactics. Of course, she ended up attending U of M and taking some of her Gen Ed classes at an extension campus and crashing at an aunt's house whenever she needed to so she could register as a commuter and save the cost of housing since we live 2 hrs. from the main campus, but this aunt lives about 20 in. depending on traffic.

 

When I was in college, we didn't have an "honor's college" per se for the music department, but the faculty and administration worked out housing, honor's courses, etc. for the big scholarship recipients which meant we were sort of our own mini-culture on campus. I loved it! My experiences with that group was life-changing in a positive way which makes me think that the right honor's college could be a wonderful thing for the student who is driven and has an outgoing personality.

 

Faith

 

 

I'm showing my ignorance here, but dd will be applying to colleges next year. How were you able to determine the bolded above? We haven't done many school visits, but the honors programs are something we're watching because they would be a good fit.

[FaithManor]

 

I'm showing my ignorance here, but dd will be applying to colleges next year. How were you able to determine the bolded above? We haven't done many school visits, but the honors programs are something we're watching because they would be a good fit.

 

Research.

 

We asked repeatedly about the "honor's college" and our questions were dodged, very hedgy. We then went online and started researching honor's colleges only to find out this university didn't have one. It was an "honor's program" but when compared to the rest of the information in the college catalog, it was all.exactly.the.same. NONE of the qualities or programming of a true honor's college was present. When confronted about this, they still insisted that in order to get the scholarships she would have to be labeled an "honors" student, pay the additional $2500.00, and live in the special dorm that was, uhm....not special except that other people being charged extra for pretty much nothing would be housed together. When admissions was placed in the frying pan, so to speak, they couldn't even come up with one single reason why the honor's program was different or better than just declaring a major and going the traditional route. In the end, it was all about a sham to collect the extra money. At any rate, it spoke strongly to how we ended up perceiving that institution and though on paper they were more generous with merit money than the University of Michigan was, U of M has ended up costing dd less and she ended up at a top 30 school - still no student loans.

 

It pays to dig, dig, dig before making the final decision.

 

Faith

[QueenCat]

 

I'm showing my ignorance here, but dd will be applying to colleges next year. How were you able to determine the bolded above? We haven't done many school visits, but the honors programs are something we're watching because they would be a good fit.

 

Honors programs and honors colleges are different. One is not necessarily worse or better than the other. That will really depend on the individual program and the individual student. Ds' is a program, not college, but it is a good one, so he is happy with it.

[Tree Frog]

Research.

 

We asked repeatedly about the "honor's college" and our questions were dodged, very hedgy. We then went online and started researching honor's colleges only to find out this university didn't have one. It was an "honor's program" but when compared to the rest of the information in the college catalog, it was all.exactly.the.same. NONE of the qualities or programming of a true honor's college was present. When confronted about this, they still insisted that in order to get the scholarships she would have to be labeled an "honors" student, pay the additional $2500.00, and live in the special dorm that was, uhm....not special except that other people being charged extra for pretty much nothing would be housed together. When admissions was placed in the frying pan, so to speak, they couldn't even come up with one single reason why the honor's program was different or better than just declaring a major and going the traditional route. In the end, it was all about a sham to collect the extra money. At any rate, it spoke strongly to how we ended up perceiving that institution and though on paper they were more generous with merit money than the University of Michigan was, U of M has ended up costing dd less and she ended up at a top 30 school - still no student loans.

 

It pays to dig, dig, dig before making the final decision.

 

Faith

 

Thank you for the information. We're learning to how to conduct the research, but one thing we're struggling with is how much to encourage dd to do the research herself. I believe she will have a better understanding of what she is choosing if she handles researching universities and the college applications, but she's not stepping up to the plate yet. I realize she's only a junior and has a bit of time before needing to make a final decision, but we'd rather not force or require her to research and make decisions. We'd like her to want to make these choices herself. (This is all being said by a parent who's going through this for the first time. I expect things will be different, but hopefully slightly easier, with the next 2.)

[Tree Frog]

 

Honors programs and honors colleges are different. One is not necessarily worse or better than the other. That will really depend on the individual program and the individual student. Ds' is a program, not college, but it is a good one, so he is happy with it.

 

Thanks for making this distinction for me. I'd never thought about the two being different. What makes them different? Does it have more to do with living arrangements, ie, an honors dorm, or cost or...?

[Amethyst]

I guess it will vary by schools, but we actively discouraged our kids from doing the Honors College thing. I really don't think you get anything for it. Plus it will make it tougher to keep up the GPA if student is applying to professional school. Perhaps there is some advantage from a social point of view if they are all in the same dorm, but we actively discouraged our kids from going away to college. (If you can't tell, I'm incredibly cynical about the current state of higher education in this country. It is a business. It is a game. Be careful. Things are not always what they say they are.)

[ThisIsTheDay]

Thank you for the information. We're learning to how to conduct the research, but one thing we're struggling with is how much to encourage dd to do the research herself. I believe she will have a better understanding of what she is choosing if she handles researching universities and the college applications, but she's not stepping up to the plate yet. I realize she's only a junior and has a bit of time before needing to make a final decision, but we'd rather not force or require her to research and make decisions. We'd like her to want to make these choices herself. (This is all being said by a parent who's going through this for the first time. I expect things will be different, but hopefully slightly easier, with the next 2.)

 

I'm there, as my oldest is a senior. Like everything else, I've just tried to find the balance. I want her getting some of the info on her own, but I want to help steer her direction also.

 

It is a stressful time for almost ALL families in this position, whether their kids are hsed or in public school, as they try to figure out the next step.

 

My dd checked a box at the last minute and wrote an additional essay to apply to one school's honors college. And she was accepted! We hadn't researched it, and she wasn't really expecting anything to happen. But further research shows that it's an awesome opportunity, and we went back to the school last week to attend the Honors College info session. Dd isn't convinced, but that's another post, I suppose.

 

And like you, I'm hoping things will go easier with my next child!

[ThisIsTheDay]

I guess it will vary by schools, but we actively discouraged our kids from doing the Honors College thing. I really don't think you get anything for it. Plus it will make it tougher to keep up the GPA if student is applying to professional school.

 

 

:huh: :confused1: How is that any different than saying you will give them easier work in high school so their GPA is better; therefore, their high school transcript makes them look like a stronger student?

 

There may be reasons to not take advantage of an honors college opportunity, but wouldn't you WANT to send your kids to school to be challenged?

[QueenCat]

Thanks for making this distinction for me. I'd never thought about the two being different. What makes them different? Does it have more to do with living arrangements, ie, an honors dorm, or cost or...?

 

From what I understand, an honors college will have most if not all classes stemming from within the college.

The honors program at ds' school requires students to take at least one honors course per semester (but they can take more). The general requirements all have honors options as well as some upper level options. At his school, there is an honors dorm. It costs the same as the other dorms of the same style. You are not required to live it but most who live on campus choose to do so. Tuition at his school is the same for honors students and non-honors students.

[TravelingChris]

DD not only is in the honors college, which isn't only STEM majors at any rate, she was invited to be a freshman research helper. When she applied and was accepted, she had to attend a research class first semester then start on the research, second semester. Out of the twenty students, only she and one other were non stem. But they both got research projects to help work on. She is a social science major (undecided which one yet) and social scientists do research too. Anyway, she has no issues with hanging around STEM people- her fiance is a STEM person as is her father and her sister will be too.

[FaithManor]

 

Honors programs and honors colleges are different. One is not necessarily worse or better than the other. That will really depend on the individual program and the individual student. Ds' is a program, not college, but it is a good one, so he is happy with it.

 

 

Exactly. However, the admin consistently over and over used the term "Honor's College' with her. "We've invited you to attend the Honor's College." They didn't have one! False advertising supreme. Of course, maybe if their Honor's Program had been good, we might have felt differently.

 

My "Honor's Program" in college was absolutely excellent and I'm so glad I was able to participate.

 

Faith

[J-rap]

My daughter is in the Honors Program at her school; it's a small, private university thus an Honors Program and not an Honors College within a school. I'm not sure exactly what the perks are, and she doesn't live on campus. However, through the Honors Program she has been able to take some fascinating and unique courses that are ONLY offered to the Honors Program students. Also, many of the Honors Program courses are meant to meet two requirements with one course.

 

As my daughter plans to go on to graduate school, she figures being in the Honors Program couldn't hurt, and maybe it will help.

[Amethyst]

 

:huh: :confused1: How is that any different than saying you will give them easier work in high school so their GPA is better; therefore, their high school transcript makes them look like a stronger student?

 

There may be reasons to not take advantage of an honors college opportunity, but wouldn't you WANT to send your kids to school to be challenged?

 

There is nothing wrong with your student being challenged. Hopefully the college or university will be doing that. But piling on more work for the sake of piling on more work, is a waste of time and resources. If the student was going to get something real out of it, that's another story. But having the word "Honors" stamped on a diploma is worthless in my mind. Having the prestige of being part of an honors program is worthless in my mind. You may feel differently, but I would advise any student to be very careful. It may not be as important as you may think. I've heard lots of students say "I'm applying to medical school. The med schools will be really impressed with (honors program/double major/minor)" but I just don't think that's really true. I'm also very wary of schools that allow 100 students take freshman year Biology and then purposely make it so hard in order to have half of the students drop out. Now, you may consider that "challenging" but I fear that schools like that are foolish. Students that are perfectly capable of medical school level work are forced out because they chose to go to an extremely competitive college. The student is in college to learn. There is no need to pile on unnecessary work. That's my opinion. You don't have to agree.

[ThisIsTheDay]

 

There is nothing wrong with your student being challenged. Hopefully the college or university will be doing that. But piling on more work for the sake of piling on more work, is a waste of time and resources. If the student was going to get something real out of it, that's another story. But having the word "Honors" stamped on a diploma is worthless in my mind. Having the prestige of being part of an honors program is worthless in my mind. You may feel differently, but I would advise any student to be very careful. It may not be as important as you may think. I've heard lots of students say "I'm applying to medical school. The med schools will be really impressed with (honors program/double major/minor)" but I just don't think that's really true. I'm also very wary of schools that allow 100 students take freshman year Biology and then purposely make it so hard in order to have half of the students drop out. Now, you may consider that "challenging" but I fear that schools like that are foolish. Students that are perfectly capable of medical school level work are forced out because they chose to go to an extremely competitive college. The student is in college to learn. There is no need to pile on unnecessary work. That's my opinion. You don't have to agree.

 

 

It's clear from this thread that what you are describing is quite unusual. I am not interested in the "prestige" or importance. You've really "heard lots of students say" that the med schools they will be applying to ... ? I've never heard one say it! We must run in different circles. I'd have to really think if I even know more than two kids who are interested in med school, and it's not something they discuss with me.

 

It sounds like you have had a disappointing experience with one school and that you are upset. What you are describing here (making half the kids drop out of biology, etc.) does not sound like a school that would continue to draw students. That does not mean you can paint all schools (or honors college/programs) with the same brush.

[MIch elle]

I have first hand knowledge of what Amethyst is talking about when it comes to applying to college (not med. school). Colleges want to brag about high GPA incoming students. They don't care if the private high school doesn't do grade inflation like the public schools or the private high school is/are more difficult than the local public school; they WANT high GPAs and SATs to brag about. They don't have the time or energy to look closer than the students stats.

 

Honors College may or may not make sense depending on the college and the student's goals.

[MBM]

In some cases, honors programs can make good sense. You would want to research and find out what the program entails and how it could benefit your student.

 

For example, my son is interested in Northwestern U's MMSS (Mathematical Methods for Social Sciences) program which is an honors program that interested students apply for after getting into NU. Unlike similar programs offered by other colleges, it is not merely a matter of taking additional courses; the MMSS courses are integrated with the student's particular major. They also have the option of taking Kellogg's Certificate Program for Undergraduates. Students who finish the MMSS program get their resumes bound into a resume book which is then distributed to employers who are only interested in hiring MMSS students. Many grad schools know about MMSS, too.

 

Just take the time to investigate to make sure the program is reputable and meaningful.