Am I expecting too much from my kindergartner?

[BrookValley.]

I'm seriously sick of school time turning into whining, arguing, and complete and utter meltdowns (on both of our parts, at this point). The last several weeks the mere mention of school has brought about fits of epic proportions.

 

It's kindergarten. I don't have high, lofty goals or (what I think) are unreasonable expectations. I don't ask for much, and I keep it light. This year was supposed to be about finding some things that worked for us and hitting our homeschool "groove," but 30-45 minutes per day of gentle school work is turning more and more into an absolute nightmare of a power struggle. I'd been meeting any disagreement by just backing off, assuming it could be because we'd hit something he wasn't quite ready for. Ok, so we're going to fuss and whine and complain about doing some phonics today; fine, we'll finish what we've started for the day, but I'll back off and take a break for a few days, maybe do something a bit different when we pick it back up. I never wanted to fall into a trap of pushing my child or trying to do too much too soon, and I don't think I have. So why the struggle now?

 

The only things I try to accomplish each day are phonics/reading and math. Like I said, I keep it gentle. I use OPGTR, which I usually do on the whiteboard because he prefers it. We use some beginning readers, Bob books, etc., and read a little together every day or every other day (I do a lot of audiobooks for read-alouds, which he loves). I also use Math Mammoth, and we do about a page per day. Both have come easy to him. He's been reading for more than a year (him actually learning to read was pretty much at his lead) and we are past the halfway point in OPGTR; we're about halfway through Math Mammoth 1-A. We do a bit of handwriting and various fun activities for science, social studies, art, etc. as we get to them. I never pushed him through any of it. It's all been pretty relaxed. Like I said, if I have met any resistance, I have always addressed it by slowing down; while I am pretty sure the material itself is not beyond him, I didn't want it to be beyond his maturity level and cause, well, exactly what I am experiencing now.

 

Am I really asking too much for kindergarten? I'm not worried about where he is academically. I could conceivably stop where we are now and pick back up for first grade and I think he'd be right on target. But I don't think I should have to. We aren't doing that much! I honestly think this is a behavioral issue and not all that much related to the school work itself, but I do think I need a reality check to make sure I am not, in fact, pushing my child beyond what he is ready for. He doesn't have a hard time sitting still for great lengths of time (for a five-year old) and he has lots and lots of free play time, both inside and outside, every day. He has no trouble focusing. He can sit for 30 minutes or an hour and put together a Lego kit without assistance and without becoming distracted. Today he sat at the kitchen table, completely still and quiet, for 1 1/2 hours and listened to an entire audiobook, but later in the day the mention of sitting with me to do a few math problems resulted in him screaming no and launching into a 10-minute diatribe about how he didn't want to, he didn't have to, and he wasn't EVAH going to.

 

What the heck is up with this? Is this just what five-year olds do? Or am I just being an over-achieving new homeschooling mom?

[Chris in VA]

I agree it's probably behavioral.

 

I guess you have two choices (well, that I can see, anyway--maybe you have more!)--

 

Either correct the behavior, or drop the conflict.

 

Which feels right to you?

[Arcadia]

I also use Math Mammoth, and we do about a page per day. Both have come easy to him.....

He can sit for 30 minutes or an hour and put together a Lego kit without assistance and without becoming distracted. Today he sat at the kitchen table, completely still and quiet, for 1 1/2 hours and listened to an entire audiobook, but later in the day the mention of sitting with me to do a few math problems resulted in him screaming no and launching into a 10-minute diatribe about how he didn't want to, he didn't have to, and he wasn't EVAH going to.

 

You can do addition, subtraction, multiplication and division using Legos as the manipulatives. Might hold his attention better. He might also be bored for Math if it comes easy to him.

[Farrar]

Well, you've presented two basic options - come at him and force the issue or back off and drop or lessen the work. In general, I try to go sideways in situations like this. So instead of lessening the work, I would just do different work. Sometimes I think the less we do, the more the stuff we're left with is the most boring tasks. So OPGTR and MM are, well, really dull. No offense to them - we use MM here too. But it's not the juicy stuff. Sometimes learning isn't fun and that's an important lesson, but right now I'd do everything I could to step off the path you're on now and deal with that lesson when you're in a better place. So I'd start doing fun science, and maybe more read alouds, and maybe more field trips, and maybe more math games instead of MM, and making books instead of handwriting lessons, and reading higher interest books instead of BOB books. Make school more varied and more interesting.

[Mommie_Jen]

I have a 5 yr old boy too, so I know about the whining. There's sometimes where he just has to do it, whether he likes it or not (like reading an I See Sam book that I KNOW he can read) and other times I have to find ways to do the work without it looking like school. I remind him a lot that there will be times where we both have to do what we don't want to do and that we choose our attitude. Basically, he has a certain amount of work to do (generally speaking) each day, and the longer he whines about it, the longer it will take him...but if I can see that he's really getting bored with it, we will do it another way for a while.

[FairProspects]

I really think there is something to be said for not starting much with boys until age 6. I've noticed that now that my younger is 6, the whining and resistance over writing is virtually nil, and has decreased greatly with reading too. I remember commenting on that to my friends when my older was around 6.5 too.

 

I also agree with Farrar if you are going to go ahead with a 5 y.o. My younger loves color and games, and he will often ask to do multiple math pages in color, but freak out over 1 page in black and white. I'd see what you can do to make it more fun. We often use Ziggy the puppet to yell out spelling words, or present those parts of reading that are less fun. There have got to be some ways to jazz up the material and make it seem less like work.

[Eagle]

My son is doing very similar material for his K year. He sometimes doesn't want to do any of it but usually enjoys it once he gets started. I remind him that he likes doing it, and that sometimes helps motivate him. I also give him a choice of what to work on that day. If he says he doesn't want to do any of it then I say "ok, I'll choose", which always results in him picking something. If he ends up taking forever with a subject because he is whiny I comment that "We could have been done by now -- I wonder what we're missing out on?" This usually gets him moving along. Especially if he thinks we are missing science, which is his favourite.

 

We do a lot of fun things that he doesn't realize are "school". He has solidified his addition skills by using the Math Bingo app on the ipad and Tux Math on the computer. Sometimes we play with the C-rods or skip count with Lego. Yesterday ds drew hopscotch on our patio and numbered every square -- it goes to 300. It was completely his idea and he stayed focused on it for more than an hour.

 

Something that has really motivated him is that he has his own blog where I post some of his work. He is very proud of his blog and tries extra hard on some projects so they will go on the blog. His grandparents see what he is working on and leave him feedback, which he loves. (Note: his name is not on the blog and the comments are moderated by me, so he isn't exposed to creepy Internet strangers). Maybe finding a way to display some of your son's best work could give him encouragement?

[Tress]

I obviously don't know your son, so you have to judge if this resonates with you!

 

I had a similar sort of problem with my oldest dd in Kindergarten, I slowed down whenever she protested, because I -just like you- didn't want to pressure a young child. Turns out, I was going too slow. Duh. All the protesting stopped when I went faster: at first I doubled the phonics lessons (I compacted them, I did not double the time)....this worked for a week or so, then the whining started again.....I slowed down...that turned out to be a mistake, so I decided to double up again and again and again. We did a years worth of lessons in ...I think... three months. After that I had the exact same experience with math.

 

After seeing this with my oldest, I caught on a bit faster with my second and third dd :D. They are not as extreme as my oldest, but whining about schoolwork is usually an indication that it is too easy, so whenever they resist I up the difficulty level. I do however NOT increase the time spent on school. I have never used MM or OPGTR, but can you double up the lessons while doing only half the exercises? That is what I would try.

 

ETA, I see FairProspects post about what age to start boys on schoolwork. I only have girls, so I probably should defer to the mothers of boys on this topic. Just disregard my post if you feel it doesn't apply.

[BrookValley.]

Thanks, everyone. I think I'm stuck somewhere between wanting to deal with the attitude head on and wanting to just back off. Of course I want learning to be fun, but I also don't think it has to be fun *all* the time. But then...it's just kindergarten! It's ok to be fun all the time! See, I get stuck in this cycle. Farrar, I really love your suggestions, and I do take that approach when I can. Part of my problem, though, is that I work from home and it's a full-time gig. I have a lot of flexibility most of the time, but nearly as often I have quite a bit of work to do and I can't spend a lot of time planning or doing the fun stuff. This is part of the reason why I went with MM, for example. It's quick and easy--for me. I think I need to find a better middle ground, maybe get more organized in some areas so I can do some more of that juicy stuff!!

 

Well, you've presented two basic options - come at him and force the issue or back off and drop or lessen the work. In general, I try to go sideways in situations like this. So instead of lessening the work, I would just do different work. Sometimes I think the less we do, the more the stuff we're left with is the most boring tasks. So OPGTR and MM are, well, really dull. No offense to them - we use MM here too. But it's not the juicy stuff. Sometimes learning isn't fun and that's an important lesson, but right now I'd do everything I could to step off the path you're on now and deal with that lesson when you're in a better place. So I'd start doing fun science, and maybe more read alouds, and maybe more field trips, and maybe more math games instead of MM, and making books instead of handwriting lessons, and reading higher interest books instead of BOB books. Make school more varied and more interesting.

 

[Cosmos]

I think almost always when people ask if they are expecting too much from their young children, the answer is yes.

 

But honestly, what you're doing seems very reasonable. Other people had good ideas about going "sideways", and since it's been a long time since I've had a 5yo, I won't try to add to that advice.

 

But this caught my attention --

 

Today he sat at the kitchen table, completely still and quiet, for 1 1/2 hours and listened to an entire audiobook, but later in the day the mention of sitting with me to do a few math problems resulted in him screaming no and launching into a 10-minute diatribe about how he didn't want to, he didn't have to, and he wasn't EVAH going to.

 

 

Later in the day? Could that be a clue for you? Was he already engrossed in an activity and this new demand (math problems) would take him away from "his stuff"?

 

I know that for my ds, routine was always really important, and putting school work first thing in the morning was crucial. We'd start with a cozy reading time together, then do some of the hard brain work and pencil work. Then a little more reading together and then DONE. After that, I might suggest learning activities or crafts or experiments or whatever, but they were optional. The required stuff happened first before he got engrossed in dirt-digging or pretend-squirrel-world or what have you.

[Mommie_Jen]

Later in the day? Could that be a clue for you? Was he already engrossed in an activity and this new demand (math problems) would take him away from "his stuff"?

 

 

Oh, yeah. My DS's brain shuts off by lunch. I have to make sure to hit the hard things (math, reading) before then or it's a no go.

 

We take lots of breaks throughout the morning. We start on the couch with me reading to both boys. Then DS can have a few minutes to play if he needs, then is desk work - ETC, math, handwriting - usually with a few play breaks thrown in that. We have some simple phonics games to play thrown in there too. We're usually done with that stuff by 11 and the boys play until lunch. Right after lunch is when we do any science activities or things like that - still school, but not a brain breaker.

 

For us, we've got to do the brain work in the morning. Absolutely.

[ItoLina]

I have a 5 year old boy in K too. We want though a phase a little while back that sounds similar to what you have going on with your son. Not that things are perfect now, but I have made some changes that have helped. I dropped the Bob books and made a real effort to find "real" library books at he could read, and if he couldn't read the whole book I would just have him read e last sentence on the page, or random words here and there as we went read through. I also got SSRW which has lots of games and songs in it, which went over way better. So, I would recommend trying to get a little more fun in there. I think the OPGTR is pretty dull. I did the same thing for math. Lots of games allowed me to throw in the occasional worksheet without complaint. I know not all school work will always be fun, but I think that at 5 a lot of it should be.

 

I also try to do the stuff I know will be a bigger challenge first thing in the morning. Another thing I did was make a little chart where I Velcro pictures of each thing I hope to get done for the day. I include school things like reading and math, but also chores and even fun things like baking cookies, or going to the park. He gets to take things off the chart when we finish them. I think it helps him to see that there is always something fun planned too.

 

Lastly, we now start the school day the same way each day. I have this bulletin board with little activities about weather and the calendar and we always start with that. He loves that board and begs to go do it, so that is my way to get him into the school room without complaint.

 

I hope some of those things help. Good luck.

[duckens]

1) Is he tired? For most kids, morning is the best time for math and phonics. Also, does he wake himself in the morning, or do you need to wake him?

 

2) In our household, if there is yelling by the child, I have found it effective to ask, "Am I yelling at you? We don't yell at people who aren't yelling at us."

 

3) Whenever we get to the point of meltdown, I suggest that dd go rest on her bed. Nearly every time this happens, she is asleep within minutes. No wonder she was out of sorts.

 

4) I ignore the whining. Or agree with it. "(sigh) Why do I always have to do work?" My reply: "You bet I do! Because I want you to know lots of things when you grow up."

 

5) Ask your child what HE thinks the solution is. Explain that there is this schoolwork that needs to be done. What does HE think is the solution? What would he tell a 5yo that wasn't doing the things he was supposed to do.

 

6) Rewards: Could you hold the legos until at least one subject is done for the day? Don't just take them away. Mention a couple of times in the day or week leading up, "Starting next week, the legos will be put away until X is done." Put them in your bedroom or in a closet.

 

When there is complaining, "I wish I could have my legos,"

Answer: "Well, as soon as X is done, the legos will come out. I don't have control over you doing X. Only YOU do. I'd be happy to help you with X in whatever way you need. Let me know what I can do." And move on with your day.

 

"I am not the one you need to be mad at. You are the one who is not doing your work. When X is done, the legos will come out.

 

In our household, it's not legos, it's tv that is monitored and limited in this way. Dd gets a half hour of tv for free, and she can earn more tv if she does schoolwork.

 

7) Would an incentive of staying up late be a possibility? For the past two nights, dd has stayed up late with the understanding that she will be doing schoolwork, and she will not be complaining.

 

I don't care if math is done from 10-11am or 10-11pm. I just care that it gets done.

 

Whenever there is complaining, the deal is off.

 

8) On days that he does schoolwork, praise him to Daddy on the phone (if possible) and at dinner. "Jack worked really hard at his schoolwork today! He did x, y, and z!" Praise your child while he is working, "I can see how hard you are working! I can't wait to tell Daddy tonight!"

[Incognito]

I have a 6.5yo and a 5yo. For my 6.5yo, last year I had some resistance to something (ETC, actually). She was very capable, but unwilling. I was very light in my expectations (2 pages, I think?... maybe one?). Anyways, I tried making it easier, doing less, whatever. Whining. I found that when I made it something we always just DID (every day) and it was always the same amount (1 or 2 pg, I forget), it was much better.

 

In retrospect, I think her issues with the work were two-fold. The writing aspect was too hard (letter formation), but the concepts were too easy. So she didn't enjoy it. I don't regret finishing the first book with her anyways, but there were underlying reasons it wasn't working well for us.

 

I find that I enjoy school more (and so do my kids) when we are doing stuff we enjoy and find fascinating. We spend more time and energy on the "fun stuff" and I just make sure we are not "behind" in the basics, and the kids soak up the basics and we all enjoy it more.

[Reya]

You said, "Ok, so we're going to fuss and whine and complain about doing some phonics today; fine, we'll finish what we've started for the day, but I'll back off and take a break for a few days, maybe do something a bit different when we pick it back up. "

 

This means that whining works to get what he wants. He is being trained to whine. Start ignoring it or giving jumping-jacks, at it will go away.

[SorrelZG]

DS, at 5, responded poorly to MM1. It helped when I stopped having him do every problem or even every page. Starting with the chapter tests and then not doing what he already knew helped also. He got through it half way through K and then, after finding MM2 was looking to be more of the same, we quit. That helped his attitude the most.

 

DS never cared for phonics instruction but once he was reading, having him read to me from real books - short stories he was actually interested in - transformed his attitude. He gets phonics review via his spelling lessons and in context if he ever has trouble with a word.

 

I'm all for addressing attitude and not letting whining rule the day but I'm also for making sure I'm not provoking the child unnecessarily, which you also appear to be concerned about, and these are just another couple of things to consider. That said, jumping jacks have their place here also. :)

[Ellie]

Is he generally whiney and uncooperative? If not, then I'd say yes, you're asking too much. It might not seem like too much to you, but apparently it does to him. If he is generally whiny and uncooperative, then you have a character issue you need to work on, and making him do the Official School Stuff won't fix it.

 

He's just five. I have no problem with allowing a five-year-old to be busy about five-year-old things which don't look anything like school, especially for the sake of keeping a good relationship with him, and not making him hate Official School Stuff. That he's "in kindergarten" is irrelevant. I don't believe in kindergarten; I only believe in children who are five. Five-year-old children still need lots of free time to figure things out on their own, even when those things don't look the least bit educational.

 

Maybe he rilly, rilly dislikes OPGTR, but he doesn't know how to tell you because he's just five and he doesn't even know what he thinks. My younger dd would have abhorred OPGTR. Maybe he rilly, rilly dislikes Math Mammoth but he doesn't know how to tell you...

[besroma]

I would try Life of Fred for a while and see if he enjoys that.

 

I agree with Ellie. Anytime my younger children seemed overwhelmed, I dropped the formal approach for some time and it really paid off. All of mine really enjoy learning, which I am thankful for.

 

Anither question I would have is whether he has much screen time. If he is squirming and fussing because he wants to be entertained, I would take away screens and "reprogram" him. I may have missed this in previous posts, so please ignore if I did.

[PeterPan]

I agree it seems like you're doing all the drudgery of K5 and none of the fun part. I'd definitely shake that up. And I agree that having him do his own thing and then springing the option of school late in the day could be part of the problem. Routine, expectation, planning, transitioning. Talk with him about his plan for the day, discuss ahead of time (like for next week) when you'd like to do school work. He may also be wanting more time from you. You might try 30 min +15. Because your time is tight with your work, you could even set up a structure planning for that, where the 15 min. is the reward time for hitting the stick right away. He knows what time you guys sit down for your 30 min. session (9:30, whatever), and if he hops to it and gets those 2 things done that you have scheduled, then he has the 15 min. block for games with you. If he whines, that 15 min. block disappears into whine time. Then it's very matter of fact, logical consequences.

 

When my dd was that age, if she didn't want to work, she went to her bedroom.

[jennynd]

for reading, if he is already reading, I will not use OPGTR. I will have him to start read out loud. readings "real" books is much for fun than phonic. I will probably just do once or twice phonic per week if you still prefer phonic, but I will not do it EVERYDAY. It is boring

 

For math, with my younger who is a bit younger, we don't sit on table for math. we sit on the carpet or any comfortable area, DD does her problems on whiteboard. We are on SM 2B now, but for the 1st grade math, We used Miquon, that was much more fun with c-rod when you introduce concpt for 4 operation to a young kid, DD didn't start SM until she was very familir with the 4 operations and fraction with c-rod.

 

Also, we do not do anything for a long period of time. DD does math only 3 days a week and reading 4 days a week. with math about 20 mins after we get home (afterschooler) and Reading before bed for 20 mins. And that is plenty enough.

 

Choose your battle, you don't want to shovel stuff in his throat, he just gonna hate it. if he refuse to do something at that time, make a deal and ask him to keep the promise.

[BrookValley.]

Thanks soooo much, everyone. It really helps to have an outside perspective...

 

There's too many replies to respond or quote individually, but in response to some:

 

Yes, he can be very uncooperative in general. He loves to argue. Tell him the sky is blue and he'll scream at you for 30 minutes that it's purple with orange polka dots. The other day he threatened to call every astronomer in the world to let them know that Pluto IS a planet, d*mmit (yeah, he probably used those exact words. I won't win mother of the year here, no worries there). Depends on the day. The point of contention varies. Which is why I think this is mostly, if not all, behavioral--it's just that he is just five, and it just kindergarten, and I just don't want to push more than necessary.

 

While I back off the school stuff if I'm meeting resistance, I don't necessarily give in to the whining in the moment. If he's throwing a fit, we *do* finish what we started for that particular day/subject, because no, whining doesn't mean you get to make the decision. It's afterwards I attempt to change direction.

 

I agree that OPGTR and MM are boring. I never do OPGTR right out of the book. I do it on the white board and I try to shake it up as much a possible (I know there isn't much you can do to make it more interesting, but sometimes it can be made a bit fun). But he'll fight the same over reading a sentence or two out of a library book that he picked out himself--if it's the day's point of contention. In general, he actually likes MM. I rarely get fuss over it, and if I give him a choice of what to work on first, it's usually math.

 

Ellie, I do agree that we don't have to be "doing kindergarten." In principle, I am totally ok with just doing the fun stuff--because he is just five. I did start with some of the more academic stuff because he seemed ready, and he enjoyed doing it. I thought it would be a good way to work slowly into more structured academic work. Eh. Maybe not. :laugh:

 

I agree with everyone who says we need to be doing more of the fun stuff. We do, and this especially is the age/time we need to be doing it. I need to find the time in my schedule to shake it up and get back to doing all that stuff that fosters love of learning, not just worrying about covering the basics. Again, perspective! It can be an awesome thing.

 

AND...I think the biggie, the one thing that didn't occur to me (a total "duh" moment, for sure). YES, TIME of day! I think he is not in a good place when we do school in the afternoon. I never made the connection. *I* am not a morning person. HE is! Duh. Duh. Duh. So, this morning we did some read-aloud stuff and then worked on a bit of math. He did twice as much math as he usually does--because he asked for it--and no fussing. Then he wanted to read, and did twice as much out of OPGTR--because he asked for it. I still think I need to chill on these two things and incorporate more fun, hands-on stuff, but I'm thinking it was more than a coincedence that doing a bit of work in the a.m. worked better than, say, 3 in the afternoon.

[Shellydon]

We always do school first. School begins at 9. My K'er does Math U See, phonics with me, then listens to history and science with her sisters. She is prone to being resistant to direction. I tell her school is not a choice. She can do school at home for 1.5 hours or I can take her to school for 7 hours. That usually takes care of it. Disrespectful arguing puts gets you in trouble immediately - loss of privileges or a spanking.

 

I don't think you are asking too much at all.

[Incognito]

^{Yes, time of day is important. If I try to start stuff (even things they like) at 3pm, I am very unlikely to have a positive attitude from them.}

[Denise in IN]

It doesn't sounds like you're being unreasonable. Follow your gut feeling: if you think it is behavioral, then deal with the behaviors (whining, disobedience, tantrums).

 

I didn't catch the time of day you're working, but I would make school the first thing in the day. In general I have found that making the necessary things (school & chores) first always helps the day go better. And my kids have more energy in the morning.

 

Also, we usually do the necessary/seatwork learning first, then do fun stuff. It provides good motivation to do things that aren't "fun", but need to be done.

 

I would only look at curriculum changes after the behavior is dealt with. I have no problem changing curriculum mid-year, but it's hard to tell if curriculum is the issue when the response to most everything is resistance. First deal with the behaviors, then you will be able to see where curriculum changes might be in order.

 

I think that K/Early Elementary is a great time to develop the routine & flow of a school day. Developing the habit and expectation of doing a little school and work every day is very beneficial as they get older and the school work increases!

[Mergath]

I agree with the pps that while the level of the work sounds right, it's probably really, really boring for a five-year-old. I checked out OPGTR from the library once, and I was bored just paging through it. It's thorough, but snore.

 

Around here, I spend a lot of time in character while we do our reading and math lessons. For some reason, phonics is much more fun for her if I'm pretending to be a British professor with a terrible accent, or Merida from Brave (dd's latest obsession). I won't even tell you how much time I've spent lately speaking in a Scottish accent. :p Also, I let dd sit on top of the kitchen table while I write on the whiteboard. I'm not picky.

[Ellie]

Yes, he can be very uncooperative in general. He loves to argue. Tell him the sky is blue and he'll scream at you for 30 minutes that it's purple with orange polka dots. The other day he threatened to call every astronomer in the world to let them know that Pluto IS a planet, d*mmit (yeah, he probably used those exact words. I won't win mother of the year here, no worries there). Depends on the day. The point of contention varies. Which is why I think this is mostly, if not all, behavioral--it's just that he is just five, and it just kindergarten, and I just don't want to push more than necessary.

 

<snip>

 

Ellie, I do agree that we don't have to be "doing kindergarten." In principle, I am totally ok with just doing the fun stuff--because he is just five. I did start with some of the more academic stuff because he seemed ready, and he enjoyed doing it. I thought it would be a good way to work slowly into more structured academic work. Eh. Maybe not. :laugh:

 

<snip>

 

I agree with everyone who says we need to be doing more of the fun stuff. We do, and this especially is the age/time we need to be doing it. I need to find the time in my schedule to shake it up and get back to doing all that stuff that fosters love of learning, not just worrying about covering the basics. Again, perspective! It can be an awesome thing.

 

Well, there you go. :-)

 

I think it's a good idea to work on the character issues as much as possible while doing things other than Official School Stuff. I don't think there really are academic "basics" that must be covered with a five-year-old. Even if there were, IMHO it can be done in more creative, less school-like ways. I think you've had an epiphany. :laugh:

[LibraryLover]

There are many opportunities for a 5 year old to learn these skills, and none involve formal sit-down work. If you are interested, I can tell you what I did with my 5 yr olds. :)

 

PS IME, some children do not enjoy OPGTR. Which doesn't mean it's not a good program, only that some children do balk.

[swellmomma]

With my 5 yr old, she rarely complains when I say schooltime, it's the opposite, tears when it is not a school day. BUT the days she does dig her heels in I usually have something good to offer at the end of the time period. So if we are doing work at 945 until 1030 or so I let her know that after she is done school she can have a snacktime. Or after schooltime I will pull out the playdough, or the paints or ds9 will take her outside to play etc. Something that for her shows work hard now, relax or play hard after. You are using different materials for K than I am, so no comment on the materials. But finding that right time of day and then having something to look forward to when she is done is key here.

[Xanadu]

I don't think you have an academic problem; I think you have a discipline problem. An untrained child cannot be taught. I'd focus on first-time obedience for chores, tubs, toys, whatever and once he is co-operative, there is time for the academics. First off, I'd say no screen time whatsoever. And the Legos would be put up in my house for any child who bellowed at me for 30 minutes about anything. Trust me, I had one of those...

 

 

./agree with Margaret

 

My dd, now 7, behaved much the same as your child last year. We've always called her our firecracker, older ds is much more laid back & nAturally mellow, even as a pre-teen.

 

Last year she stopped giving me trouble after I took away all electronics/screen time for two weeks (reboot) then allowed them back only on weekends and only if schoolwork for the week was completed. Even then it's only for 2 hours on each day (sat/sun). During the reboot behavior escalated and I just kept taking toys till she was down to 1 doll and her books.....but it worked. She realized I wasn't going to allow her to dictate/control our household, that everyone has responsibilities and hers includes schoolwork. She earned her toys back, loves selecting what she wants to spend her *screen* hours on, and even gets *bonus* screen time during the week when we have family movie nights or educational DVDs tied to a subject we are studying. BUT that reboot period was ugly, she was stubborn and pushed and pushed (like most kids do) convinced I would give in first.

It sounds like your son has learned that if he pushes enough he will get his way....kids naturally want to please their parents unless they've become desensitized/bored because rl isn't as exciting/entertaining as they become accostomed to with lots of screen stimuli and/or getting their way all the time. It may be time for a little tough love.

[Incognito]

With my 5 yr old, she rarely complains when I say schooltime, it's the opposite, tears when it is not a school day. BUT the days she does dig her heels in I usually have something good to offer at the end of the time period. So if we are doing work at 945 until 1030 or so I let her know that after she is done school she can have a snacktime. Or after schooltime I will pull out the playdough, or the paints or ds9 will take her outside to play etc. Something that for her shows work hard now, relax or play hard after. You are using different materials for K than I am, so no comment on the materials. But finding that right time of day and then having something to look forward to when she is done is key here.

 

FWIW, I have one kid who is motivated by rewards afterwards, and the other that will hate anything that is between said child and the reward (so the schoolwork is suddenly "boring" or the game we are playing isn't fun anymore or whatever).

[Trilliums]

Being argumentative does not necessarily have to mean a behavior problem. DS is quite argumentative, but he is also a compliant and helpful person. But, if told to do something with that doesn't make sense to him, or given information he finds faulty, then yes, he argues against it, as in he presents his evidence to support his view. While this can be frustrating at times, I do not think it is automatically bad. I want my kids to be able to defend their positions and support their views. Of course, I do not expect a 5 yo to appreciate the reasoning behind decisions for his education, but I wouldn't immediately conclude he has a behavior or discipline problem.

 

DS is now 16. Over the years of homeschooling, when school stuff caused problems or frustration, I backed off and re-evaluated. He has not turned into a whiner who tries to get out of hard work. On the contrary, he sets ambitious goals and works hard to achieve them. For example, this year he is taking precalc at the public high school but he is simultaneously working on calculus independently with Coursera and Khan Academy in order to prepare himself for physics and math classes at the local Univ next year. But, he also recognizes when he has attempted too much and scales back appropriately. He also is good at prioritizing his academic load. He asks our opinion on a multitude of subjects and makes his decision.

 

It is quite ironic to me that we tend tell our kids "just don't argue and do what I say" and then by the time they are in high school, we are getting books like A Rulebook for Arguments, because they need to learn how to construct a well thought out argument.

 

Kids can learn and grow and become educated individuals without a lot of the Official School Stuff, especially in the younger years. It doesn't set them back years if they wait to do the spelling, grammar and math facts. Much of this can be learned without work sheets even! By the time they are young teens, their abilities shoot up and they begin acquiring skills so much more quickly.

 

Enjoy your family. :)

[pitterpatter]

Does he fidget, wiggle and/or space out during school time? My DD loves listening to audiobooks and does so as she sits still and quiet. She also enjoys putting Legos together...she can do this task and many other similar play-type tasks in a very focused way. However, these activities are different than what goes on during school. My DD loves school and learning. However, she is very wiggly and I have to reel her in a lot during school time. I wouldn't jump on the bad behavior band wagon quite yet. You may need to find more active and engaging curriculum. Your child may need curriculum that keeps his hands and mind busy. My DD loves to be read to, fun worksheets and hands-on activities. She responds best to curriculum that utilizes these things. I would experiment, keep patience, and pay extra close attention to what sets your child off. Figure out what types of activities work best for him.

[Paige]

I think a lot of that is normal 5yr old behavior. It's normal for some kids to love school activities and learning and it's normal for some kids to just not be that into it now or ever. I'm not sure what your routine is like, but with my 5yr olds, I found that if I spent some dedicated quality time playing with them doing what they liked- dolls, Polly Pocket, trains, chutes and ladders, play doh, etc- but with them and engaged with them, then they were more willing to give me what I wanted which was a phonics or math lesson with no whining. It's not so much about bribing as it is about setting up a situation where the child feels connected. I don't always do this and my 5yr old frequently refuses to do her work and I don't always play with her like she wants, but when I step back, I can definitely see the correlation between that and the times that the kids have been the most content to do their work with me. Even time spent snuggling on the couch watching Blue's Clues (not my fav!) results in my DD being more eager to please and more eager to work. Maybe you could set up a schedule where you spend an hour playing whatever he wants and he gives you an hour doing work.

[Catherine]

Perhaps you should take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, given the earlier responses. The only child I taught K to was the youngest, and I was coping with a fourth grader and eighth grader who had major needs of one sort or another at that time. Plus I have a half-time job. So basically, I needed him to go with the plan without giving me too much of a hard time and allow us to cover the boring, required stuff (has anyone found a not boring phonics program?? It's plain dull stuff) in minimum time so that we could have at least a little time for making mummified chickens and doing weird science.

 

He resisted at times, but I was basically very businesslike and firm and almost always, that carried the day. Ahh, the well-adjusted third child! He is such a joy, and so much less difficult than his brothers.

[pehp]

I have a very similar kindy schedule/approach....so I don't think it is too much. We do OPGTR and MUS plus some handwriting....science twice a week..plus reading together. That's it.

Here are my thoughts...

-do school as early in the day as you can. As soon as we finish breakfast and getting dressed we do quick chores and start school. In and out.

-be sure he is getting LOTS of outside time/exercise....

-work harder on relationship building than anything else. It sounds more like a discipline issue to me too...so work on the heart of the problem.

-give him chores and lots of encouragement.