no coats in carseats?

[AdventureMoms]

I drive like an old lady. LOL Seriously I am a very cautious driver. I also don't drive in situations I know I can't handle.

 

But seriously, it is not reasonable to bring an infant out without a coat when it's well below freezing. And I don't like leaving my car running for a long time either. That's just inviting someone to steal it. You know, someone stole my ashtray? Now I have this big hole there. There wasn't even anything in it.

 

Most infants are in infant seats where you can cover them up with a blanket before you bring them out. That's what we did for the twins. DD was in a convertible her first winter (in upstate/central NY) though, and it was fine. She was 6months old at the beginning of winter. I just brought her out (wearing a fleece and a hat) and carried a blanket, put her in the carseat, and wrapped the blanket around her.

[Splash]

My kids never wear winter coats in car. They all have polar fleece coats to wear if they are really cold. Never been a problem where I live. (Colorado). I was told this by firemen who installed cars eat in car for oldest who is almost 18

[tabrizia]

The issue for most kids is not that they can fall out with a coat on. The lap part of the belt would make that physically impossible unless the legs were broken off.

 

Oh I didn't realize that the "lap part" of the belt, that is still part of the "arms part" of the belt, and one long piece of belt, that has the buckle slide on it, locked. What car seat are you using that does that? Because I have yet to find one with a seperate "lap belt" that isn't attached to the part that goes over the arms, and just slides through the hole in the buckle where the buckle is attached to the seat/carseat belt.

[myfunnybunch]

The vast majority of people in the world do not transport their children in cars.

 

Well, they're probably not included in the statistic then, are they? So they can happily wear their puffy winter coats safely while they travel. Except many world peoples live in climates where they don't need winter coats. So....maybe we can leave all people to whom this discussion does not apply out of the discussion altogether.

 

I'm not sure why you feel the need to pooh-pooh those who feel that it's important to make certain their children are buckled safely. I drive safely. I understand that the chances of a traffic accident are very, very small. I also see my elderly neighbor back out of her driveway. She really shouldn't be on the road, and I'm certain she's not the only unsafe driver out there. Death isn't the only possible outcome. Even a minor injury can be painful for a child (or improperly restrained adult), frightening, expensive, and time-consuming. If parents choose to buckle the child with a winter coat on, that's their choice. If parents choose to be more cautious, what harm is caused?

 

Cat

[Wheres Toto]

I've actually been in a head-on collision. Very hilly, winding, narrow road and my Honda Civic was hit by a larger, old sedan with both of us going about 25 mph. It was completely unexpected and there was nothing I could have done about it. I had three kids in the car but all were old enough to be out of booster seats.

 

I've also been in an accident where our car slid into a concrete highway divider going about 60mph. My son was around 18 months old and was in a rear-facing seat without a coat on, just a fleece (it was New Years Day in Connecticut). If the straps weren't tight enough, it is very likely he could have slid out of the seat.

 

We don't usually have the kids wear anything but a fleece jacket in the car. We have puffy coats and snow pants for them to wear playing in the snow, blankets that we keep in the car to use as needed. But what really makes it work is that when I was pregnant with ds, dh bought me a remote starter for our suv. I can stand in the house and aim it out the window and warm up the car without having to go outside. This doesn't always work when we are out somewhere (I have to be able to see the car) but those are the occasions we use the blankets.

[AdventureMoms]

Oh I didn't realize that the "lap part" of the belt, that is still part of the "arms part" of the belt, and one long piece of belt, that has the buckle slide on it, locked. What car seat are you using that does that? Because I have yet to find one with a seperate "lap belt" that isn't attached to the part that goes over the arms, and just slides through the hole in the buckle where the buckle is attached to the seat/carseat belt.

 

Also important to remember - in an accident those straps will stretch.

[SKL]

Oh I didn't realize that the "lap part" of the belt, that is still part of the "arms part" of the belt, and one long piece of belt, that has the buckle slide on it, locked. What car seat are you using that does that? Because I have yet to find one with a seperate "lap belt" that isn't attached to the part that goes over the arms, and just slides through the hole in the buckle where the buckle is attached to the seat/carseat belt.

 

Well in a five-point harness, at least the ones I've used, there is a connection at the waist. Your child is sitting bent at the hips and waist. The child cannot straighten his body enough to "fall out" unless the waist gets loosened a LOT. My kids' didn't even loosen when I adjusted the shoulder straps, but even if yours does, you'd have to loosen it a LOT to make that much difference. The thickness of a winter coat would not do it, unless the child was very little compared to the harness system (as with an infant in a convertible seat). It is also unlikely that the shoulder straps would open wide enough for a tot or larger kid to "fall out."

[Slartibartfast]

Well in a five-point harness, at least the ones I've used, there is a connection at the waist. Your child is sitting bent at the hips and waist. The child cannot straighten his body enough to "fall out" unless the waist gets loosened a LOT. My kids' didn't even loosen when I adjusted the shoulder straps, but even if yours does, you'd have to loosen it a LOT to make that much difference. The thickness of a winter coat would not do it, unless the child was very little compared to the harness system (as with an infant in a convertible seat). It is also unlikely that the shoulder straps would open wide enough for a tot or larger kid to "fall out."

 

 

The issue for most kids is not that they can fall out with a coat on. The lap part of the belt would make that physically impossible unless the legs were broken off.

 

 

 

 

If you read the manual on any carseat manufactured in the US they specifically state that ejection is a risk if winter coats are used. It is known that ejection is possible if the straps are loose. Wearing a winter coat is the same as loose straps. If I put a winter coat on my kid and adjust the straps accordingly I can then put him in the carseat with the loose straps (which is what the coat would do) and pull him out..without breaking his legs.

 

When the top straps are loose then the bottom straps can loosen. There are two straps, not four.

[SKL]

Well, they're probably not included in the statistic then, are they? So they can happily wear their puffy winter coats safely while they travel. Except many world peoples live in climates where they don't need winter coats. So....maybe we can leave all people to whom this discussion does not apply out of the discussion altogether.

 

I'm not sure why you feel the need to pooh-pooh those who feel that it's important to make certain their children are buckled safely. I drive safely. I understand that the chances of a traffic accident are very, very small. I also see my elderly neighbor back out of her driveway. She really shouldn't be on the road, and I'm certain she's not the only unsafe driver out there. Death isn't the only possible outcome. Even a minor injury can be painful for a child (or improperly restrained adult), frightening, expensive, and time-consuming. If parents choose to buckle the child with a winter coat on, that's their choice. If parents choose to be more cautious, what harm is caused?

 

Cat

 

 

 

(a.) My point about the fact that kids in less-developed countries don't travel much in cars was to point out that the "over 1 million children die" statistic was ridiculous even if we're talking about the whole earth. That was clarified by the original poster as being inaccurate.

 

(b.) I have nothing against people choosing to make a reasoned decision based on the information provided. I have a problem with folks being brow-beaten into it using exaggerated statistics and guilt trips. I mean, I only buy my kids leather shoes, and you might think that's completely unnecessary. To each her own. You don't see me spreading nonsense statistics to try to get every other mom to throw out their kids' non-leather shoes lest the poor child grow up a cripple.

[SKL]

If you read the manual on any carseat manufactured in the US they specifically state that ejection is a risk if winter coats are used. It is known that ejection is possible if the straps are loose. Wearing a winter coat is the same as loose straps. If I put a winter coat on my kid and adjust the straps accordingly I can then put him in the carseat with the loose straps (which is what the coat would do) and pull him out..without breaking his legs.

 

When the top straps are loose then the bottom straps can loosen. There are two straps, not four.

 

 

Well then, I guess my cheap car seats were quite a bargain, because this would have been absolutely impossible for us (even though, yes, there were only three straps, including the crotch strap.) The little bit of space shown in that posted video would not be enough to allow the boy to straighten his legs all the way. And even if it did, his chest clip (assuming it held) would have kept the hole around his neck/shoulders too small. So I'm sorry, I'm just not buying the "could fly out" argument, except for a small infant in a convertible seat.

[Slartibartfast]

[double post

[Slartibartfast]

(a.) My point about the fact that kids in less-developed countries don't travel much in cars was to point out that the "over 1 million children die" statistic was ridiculous even if we're talking about the whole earth. That was clarified by the original poster as being inaccurate.

(b.) I have nothing against people choosing to make a reasoned decision based on the information provided. I have a problem with folks being brow-beaten into it using exaggerated statistics and guilt trips. I mean, I only buy my kids leather shoes, and you might think that's completely unnecessary. To each her own. You don't see me spreading nonsense statistics to try to get every other mom to throw out their kids' non-leather shoes lest the poor child grow up a cripple.

 

I am not arguing whether or not it is too cold in regard to winter coats because cold is actually my nemesis and I fall over into a pile of goo if it is cold. I am not originally from SC but a colder area and I HATE HATE HATE cold.

 

However if we are going to argue physics well then I am not going to agree there is any wiggle room or negotiation.

 

If someone just says "I DO WHAT I WANT" then that is fine by me. However, I am not going to agree that physics is going to do something it won't or that it is irrational to think physics is going to behave in a manner different than what is proven.

[SKL]

But I am not going to agree that physics is going to do something it won't.

 

Yeah, me neither.

[celticmom]

I think that this might be a subject where the region you live in makes a major difference. We don't wear coats heavier than what most people would call jackets very often. We do generally take them off once we are in the car but dd8 would probably remove all her clothing if she thought she could get away with it. I think that the whole issue would probably bug me a lot more if I lived in a colder region.

[Mergath]

FOR US, this would be insanity. My kids would die of hypothermia before I got in a crash. Most days my van doesn't even get warm before we get to where we're going.

 

We wear coats in the car/seats. End of story.

 

:iagree: I'm all for safety, but where we live it's regularly below zero for days or even weeks at a time in the winter. Here, the cold isn't just an inconvenience to shiver through- it's actually dangerous. If I tried to bring my child out to the car without a winter coat, I'd probably end up getting arrested. I guess we get to choose the lesser of two evils.

[Mergath]

I don't know how it is where you all live, but I have NEVER encountered another car speeding toward me (the wrong way) in my lane. I'm 46 and I've driven many hundreds of thousands of miles. I'm sure it happens, but am I going to take up x minutes out of every day - hours out of every month - days out of every year - to prepare for this extremely rare occurrance (that still might kill us anyway)? Nope. If you want to, more power to you.

 

I did have that happen to me once. The woman in the other car was sick and fell asleep at the wheel. We swerved around her by inches, then watched in horror as she flew off the road and rolled her car down the embankment. (She lived.) Scariest thing that's ever happened to me. It was on a highway at sixty miles an hour, and if I would have been looking at the radio or something when it happened, dd and I would both likely be dead, winter coat or not.

[AdventureMoms]

Well then, I guess my cheap car seats were quite a bargain, because this would have been absolutely impossible for us (even though, yes, there were only three straps, including the crotch strap.) The little bit of space shown in that posted video would not be enough to allow the boy to straighten his legs all the way. And even if it did, his chest clip (assuming it held) would have kept the hole around his neck/shoulders too small. So I'm sorry, I'm just not buying the "could fly out" argument, except for a small infant in a convertible seat.

 

One of the reasons three point harnesses are no longer considered safe is because of the increased risk of ejection due to the lack of a lap belt. It's pretty easy to get a baby out of a 3-pt harness without inconveniencing them, let alone breaking their legs.

[Joker]

I don't know how it is where you all live, but I have NEVER encountered another car speeding toward me (the wrong way) in my lane. I'm 46 and I've driven many hundreds of thousands of miles. I'm sure it happens, but am I going to take up x minutes out of every day - hours out of every month - days out of every year - to prepare for this extremely rare occurrance (that still might kill us anyway)? Nope. If you want to, more power to you.

 

 

 

This has actually happened to me a few times because of all the construction that takes place near downtown. Often, someone turns the wrong way or gets in the wrong lane. The last time was just a few weeks ago and we were traveling about 50 mph. The lady was just clueless and it was scary.

 

That said, my kids wore coats in their carseats. When they were younger, we lived way north of where we do now and it was just too cold. We've never had any accidents, though.

[Slartibartfast]

Well then, I guess my cheap car seats were quite a bargain, because this would have been absolutely impossible for us (even though, yes, there were only three straps, including the crotch strap.) The little bit of space shown in that posted video would not be enough to allow the boy to straighten his legs all the way. And even if it did, his chest clip (assuming it held) would have kept the hole around his neck/shoulders too small. So I'm sorry, I'm just not buying the "could fly out" argument, except for a small infant in a convertible seat.

 

I believe the difference is in the coat rather than the carseat.

 

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/486297_4777949442365_2069752418_n.jpg

 

The "could fly out" argument is a fact, sadly. The reason I like the video linked above is that it is less horrifying than many others. I don't like to post videos with more grim content but they are out there.

 

Another concern is that the shoulders would no longer be properly secured making injuries to the head, spine and neck more likely.

 

Is it statistically likely? No, it is extremely unlikely. We have a 1 in 16 chance of being in an accident but there are vast differences in severity.

[LucyStoner]

It's spelled "compression". It's not new, at all. It's physics and it is documented in real life cases, not just crash test dummy videos.

 

Are the risks huge? No. But that doesn't mean they are not real. The vast majority of babies and kids in carseats in coats will not be in accidents and of the ones that are, most will live. That said, some will die and have died in otherwise survivable crashes due to ejection caused by compression of something thick and fluffy between them and their seat straps. I don't put my kids in carseats with thick coats on. But then again, I don't live where thick coats are all that often needed. I don't judge folks who weigh risks differently than me, but folks needn't deny the existence of a real risk to justify their decision on risk.

[Slartibartfast]

Here's my question since everybody is throwing Science out there. Have there been any studies done to demonstrate that this is not safe beyond the single one mentioned earlier and the moms who volunteer to put stuff up on YouTube? I realize that car seat manufacturers state in their manuals not to use coats, but in my manual (granted it's 6 years old) it says not to use coats because the proper functioning of the seat was not tested with coats. I'm guessing this applies to fleece coats as well (i.e. they haven't been "tested"). All the info I've searched for has statements made not defended by any cited studies, including stuff by experts/pediatricians.

 

 

Do you mean a crash test study? There hasn't been one.

[Slartibartfast]

It's spelled "compression". It's not new, at all. It's physics and it is documented in real life cases, not just crash test dummy videos.

Are the risks huge? No. But that doesn't mean they are not real. The vast majority of babies and kids in carseats in coats will not be in accidents and of the ones that are, most will live. That said, some will die and have died in otherwise survivable crashes due to ejection caused by compression of something thick and fluffy between them and their seat straps. I don't put my kids in carseats with thick coats on. But then again, I don't live where thick coats are all that often needed. I don't judge folks who weigh risks differently than me, but folks needn't deny the existence of a real risk to justify their decision on risk.

 

 

Right everyone needs to make their own decisions and weigh every risk.

 

Parents are fed so much data about every little thing, like many said in the thread, it is overwhelming. We all have to weigh those risks and make what we feel is the best, educated decision. I don't think denying the risk is healthy, if someone is making an educated choice they can still recognize the risk and choose another route. Like many said, they are more concerned with extreme cold, which is also a valid concern.

[SKL]

Do you mean a crash test study? There hasn't been one.

 

 

I find that interesting.

 

BTW, as I've said before, I DO believe this "flying out" thing is a risk for a baby who is small compared to the size of the seat. I also agree that the loosening of the straps is somewhat less safe even if the child doesn't fly out. But I take issue with extending the flying out thing to the whole population of children. I also take issue with the "all or nothing" approach that suggests that if you buckle in your kid with a coat on, you might as well not bother with a child restraint at all.

 

A pretty good % of accidents in these parts (snow belt, icy roads, whiteout blizzards, 6 months of winter) happen when kids in the car have their coats on, and yet it is still quite rare for the children to be badly hurt if they are in car seats.

 

I'm not denying that there's a risk out there. I'm saying it's getting exaggerated by some people.

[Mrs Mungo]

Two of my kids were born in Germany, the oldest was a toddler when we moved there. Their rules about car seats and how drivers should behave are *much* stricter than our rules in the USA. That is largely because they drive a LOT faster. We lived out in the middle of vineyards off of a two lane road and the speed limit was 120 km/hr (or around 75 mph). The Autobahn has a "suggested" speed of 130kph, but no speed limit (with some exceptions). When we saw a motorcycle accident (which we did, several times), the motorcycle rider was *always* dead. We were told not to leave coats on the kids while they were in their car seats. They also had *extremely graphic* commercials in Europe about wearing seat belts, having kids in car seats and the correct way to do those things.

 

Our kids wore fleece jackets under their coats, a fleece jacket (single layer) will not compress the way a coat will. We'd get in the car, remove coats, buckle up and put their coats over them, backwards. Nobody ever froze (even though we lived in a fourth floor apartment *and* Germany doesn't allow you to heat up your car before you get in it).

[Slartibartfast]

I find that interesting.

BTW, as I've said before, I DO believe this "flying out" thing is a risk for a baby who is small compared to the size of the seat. I also agree that the loosening of the straps is somewhat less safe even if the child doesn't fly out. But I take issue with extending the flying out thing to the whole population of children. I also take issue with the "all or nothing" approach that suggests that if you buckle in your kid with a coat on, you might as well not bother with a child restraint at all.

A pretty good % of accidents in these parts (snow belt, icy roads, whiteout blizzards, 6 months of winter) happen when kids in the car have their coats on, and yet it is still quite rare for the children to be badly hurt if they are in car seats.

I'm not denying that there's a risk out there. I'm saying it's getting exaggerated by some people.

 

 

I do not believe there is data that specific in relation to size and the seat. However adults are also more likely to be ejected if they are wearing poofy coats than not.

 

There is not specific data in relation to "improperly restrained" and what that means exactly. Improperly restrained could mean only one strap was buckled or they were upside down in the carseat for all I know. I am not aware of studies regarding speed of the vehicle and age of anyone flying out with coats on.

 

There is a lack of information.

 

I don't think the "risk" is exaggerated anymore than warning labels on medication, chemicals or anything else we encounter. I also lock up medication, chemicals, I am careful with magnets and many other things. There are choices we make everyday which have some risk to them.

[AdventureMoms]

Right everyone needs to make their own decisions and weigh every risk.

 

Parents are fed so much data about every little thing, like many said in the thread, it is overwhelming. We all have to weigh those risks and make what we feel is the best, educated decision. I don't think denying the risk is healthy, if someone is making an educated choice they can still recognize the risk and choose another route. Like many said, they are more concerned with extreme cold, which is also a valid concern.

 

 

I agree with this wholeheartedly! I don't care if people weigh the risks and make a different choice, but I don't get the claim that there is no risk. Or that it is impossible to not use a puffy coat (barring truly extreme weather).

[Mrs Mungo]

I agree with this wholeheartedly! I don't care if people weigh the risks and make a different choice, but I don't get the claim that there is no risk. Or that it is impossible to not use a puffy coat (barring truly extreme weather).

 

 

Exactly. I agree.

 

It just reminds me of those people who say, "my mom smoked during pregnancy and I'm just fine, so I'm going to smoke too. Can someone pass me my asthma inhaler?" :p

[Mommy22alyns]

Nope, it's very dangerous. I've never done it. We keep blankets in the car for cold times.

[vonfirmath]

And no, I was not speeding, flying 100 miles an hour or driving wrecklessly. Someone fell asleep at the wheel and just ran into me. You might be the most careful driver in the world but that doesn't account for the other drivers on the road with you.

 

 

If the speedlimit on the road is 60 mph, you could be going the speedlimit, and the other person is going the speedlimit. One of you drifts into the other lane, both of you put on brakes to try and slow down before hitting, and STILL end up in a 100mph accident (which is virtually unsurvivable). In a head-on collision you add together the speeds each car is doing for the effective force. This is one reason, as I understand it, rear-end accidents are generally lower speed than head-on.

 

Car seats and such are there to protect you in more survivable accidents at lower speeds. You don't have to be driving recklessly to be hit by a drunk, or be affected in some other way by the bad judgement of another driver on the road.

 

I see it this way: I do the best I can to the best of my knowledge and am VERY thankful that serious accidents are rare.

[Embassy]

It depends. If it is a very cold day and we are going to be in and out of the car I keep a coat on and keep the straps tight. If we are in for a long drive I leave the coat off. If it isn't too cold I bring the coat along to put on when we arrive at our destination and put the coat over the child like a blanket.

[Momof3littles]

We've avoided heavy coats with all of the kids. They wear a fleece and then put their jacket over them like a blanket, or use a fleece blanket in the car. When they were infants we used the fitted carseat covers. My eldest is almost 9.

[swellmomma]

The issue for most kids is not that they can fall out with a coat on. The lap part of the belt would make that physically impossible unless the legs were broken off.

 

Wrong. Remember the car wreck my ds9 was in july of 2011? He fell out of his seatbelt. They found him crumpled on the roof of the van his seatbelt was still buckled. In his case it was not a jacket that caused it to happen but it DOES happen. Lapbelts are not guaranteed to hold your child down.

 

As a parent that laid beside my child in the ditch waiting for an ambulance, seeing his foot facing backwards, the screams from him that he could not feel his legs, the worry that he would not make it. I do NOT understand parents that outright refuse to do a simple thing like remove jackets to keep their kids as safe as possible out of their own convience. The kids wear the coat tot he car, take it off long enough to buckle then put in back on backwards over the buckles. They are safe AND warm. Why do people think it has to be either or? Why is your sense of inconvience or refusal to look at facts worth more than your child's safety. The moment of chill they get while they buckle is a heck of a lot less than the cold they will feel laying in the ditch after being ejected. The moment of inconvience of remove jackets for a moment to buckle them is a heck of a lot less than the inconvience of wrestling with wheelchairs, and dr's, and therapies and surgeries and nightmares and the list goes on.

[swellmomma]

You might be the most careful driver in the world but that doesn't account for the other drivers on the road with you.

 

This. In the accident that ejected my son from his seat (not from the van he was in the rear of a 10 passenger), his driver was doing everything right and safely. The other driver broke the law and hit them. I am a good, safe driver. I do not trust the rest of the yahoos on the road. I keep my kids as safe as possible not due to a risk with my driving, but because of a risk of the other people sharing the road with me.

[SKL]

Wrong. Remember the car wreck my ds9 was in july of 2011? He fell out of his seatbelt. They found him crumpled on the roof of the van his seatbelt was still buckled. In his case it was not a jacket that caused it to happen but it DOES happen. Lapbelts are not guaranteed to hold your child down.

 

As a parent that laid beside my child in the ditch waiting for an ambulance, seeing his foot facing backwards, the screams from him that he could not feel his legs, the worry that he would not make it. I do NOT understand parents that outright refuse to do a simple thing like remove jackets to keep their kids as safe as possible out of their own convience. The kids wear the coat tot he car, take it off long enough to buckle then put in back on backwards over the buckles. They are safe AND warm. Why do people think it has to be either or? Why is your sense of inconvience or refusal to look at facts worth more than your child's safety. The moment of chill they get while they buckle is a heck of a lot less than the cold they will feel laying in the ditch after being ejected. The moment of inconvience of remove jackets for a moment to buckle them is a heck of a lot less than the inconvience of wrestling with wheelchairs, and dr's, and therapies and surgeries and nightmares and the list goes on.

 

See, this is the thing. Do what you feel is right. But don't accuse others of not caring about their children if their choice is different. We all weigh risks differently, and you probably wouldn't like to be on the other end of that kind of judgment. Because it's pretty likely that you don't follow a safety or health rule that I prioritize.

 

Just out of curiosity, how did your child get ejected with his seatbelt still buckled?

[violamama]

I will chime in, since it's always fun to join a controversy.

 

I grew up in Alaska (uphill both ways) and I doubt your kid is going to die of chill if you put the coat over them rather than on them under the straps.

 

If it's cold enough that the car itself needs to warm up, let it. Get a second set of keys and let it run for a minute. I believe emissions are cut down when it's been allowed to warm up before actually taking off, which mitigates some of the emissions it will produce while warming up in your driveway.

 

Infants are a whole 'nother ball game and people tend to get rabid about what they think is required. But older kids... I seriously stood at the bus stop in -20 weather with no socks and penny loafers because I didn't want to look silly. (Ahem.) Outside the risk of frost-bite, I don't believe I was in any great danger from being cold for 20-30 minutes a day.

 

Also, every year we would have Aloha Day (dress like a Hawaiian in midwinter arctic circle weather- go figure) and somebody would ALWAYS pull the fire alarm. Hilarious, clumps of squealing high schoolers in shorts and flip-flops mincing around in the parking lot...

[swellmomma]

See, this is the thing. Do what you feel is right. But don't accuse others of not caring about their children if their choice is different. We all weigh risks differently, and you probably wouldn't like to be on the other end of that kind of judgment. Because it's pretty likely that you don't follow a safety or health rule that I prioritize.

 

Just out of curiosity, how did your child get ejected with his seatbelt still buckled?

 

They don't know. The insurance ruled it as seatbelt malfunction. The van rolled when they were hit and he basically fell right out of it.

[swellmomma]

I will chime in, since it's always fun to join a controversy.

 

I grew up in Alaska (uphill both ways) and I doubt your kid is going to die of chill if you put the coat over them rather than on them under the straps.

 

If it's cold enough that the car itself needs to warm up, let it. Get a second set of keys and let it run for a minute. I believe emissions are cut down when it's been allowed to warm up before actually taking off, which mitigates some of the emissions it will produce while warming up in your driveway.

 

Infants are a whole 'nother ball game and people tend to get rabid about what they think is required. But older kids... I seriously stood at the bus stop in -20 weather with no socks and penny loafers because I didn't want to look silly. (Ahem.) Outside the risk of frost-bite, I don't believe I was in any great danger from being cold for 20-30 minutes a day.

 

Also, every year we would have Aloha Day (dress like a Hawaiian in midwinter arctic circle weather- go figure) and somebody would ALWAYS pull the fire alarm. Hilarious, clumps of squealing high schoolers in shorts and flip-flops mincing around in the parking lot...

 

That is like here in Alberta too. -20 is a typical day around these parts, kids still go out for recess, teens think they are cool in their sneakers and denim coats etc. Up until -30C we do the backward coat thing, -30 to -40C we only go out if necessary and bring a spare blanket. -40 to -50C everything is pretty much closed anyway so we stay home. But seriously even on those -25C days the kids are only cold long enough to buckle and unbuckle, so like 2-3 minutes at most each time. Not a big deal, heck it takes them longer to run the garbage to teh curb and my teens rarely stop to put a jacket on first.

[myfunnybunch]

I'm just annoyed at the constant rules I'm supposed to follow (and if I don't I'm a terrible parent).

 

Me too, especially the bolded. (I still follow some of them, and don't follow others, but heaven's sake, it's not like I'm letting them play with razor blades. Oops, except I let my ds use the box cutter and my MIL found out. :scared: )

 

Cat

[violamama]

Me too, especially the bolded. (I still follow some of them, and don't follow others, but heaven's sake, it's not like I'm letting them play with razor blades. Oops, except I let my ds use the box cutter and my MIL found out. :scared: )

 

Cat

 

I don't know, I kind of like the things about parenting where there ARE clear guidelines. It's just such a crapshoot out there, not to be too dark about it but there are so many things that can happen to us in this life. Knowing myself, if... no when something happens I like to know I did all I could within reason.

 

If I don't agree with a "rule" it's usually going to be for reasons supported by empirical evidence and I'm okay with others thinking I'm doing it wrong. I just need to know that I'm doing the best I can with the best information I can find on the big things: safety is one of those things.

[misty.warden]

There's no way to win. Puffy coats worn in public bring people questioning if I take it off because the AAP says it's unsafe (have to bite my tongue on this one, I have zero respect for the AAP) and thin coats bring stares and concern "Doesn't he need a thicker jacket for this cold??" Even with a puffy coat I still tighten down straps on carseats, the bottom of the 5point harness does not have contact with anything but legs so the coat doesn't change anything about that part. What about the chest clip though? If you have it up far enough I don't see how a child could fly out barring a catastrophic seatbelt failure that no amount of clothing policing could prevent. The crash test video showed very loose buckling, which IMO is more unsafe than the coat being there.

[tabrizia]

FYI the chest clip is just there are a positioner, it is not there for keeping the kid from flying out, in a major accident it likely will break, it is not designed as a safety measure to keep them in the seats, in fact they are illegal in most European countries.

[swellmomma]

I try to buy coats that aren't too bulky anyway because nobody likes trying to move around in a bulky coat. But we wear coats because it's really cold around here in the winter.

 

Ok, that said, I'm not sure I agree that this is a super clear guideline. I was told a million times not to cover an infant with a blanket. But then I'm supposed to cover them with a blanket in a car? Somehow that is suddenly ok? And I keep bringing this up and nobody seems to notice it.

 

I don't have babies anymore. So in terms of a baby in a car seat this isn't really an issue for me anymore.

 

I have always covered baby with a blanket, even leaving hospital. When my first 3 were babies the thing to have was a car seat bunting. By the time I had dd that was no longer teh case. I would fold up a baby blanket and tuck it around her after she was buckled, so she could not pull it over her face. I then had on of those carseat covers that has an elastic that holds it onto the carseat to keep out the elements, or I would throw a receiving blanket over the seat as I ran from building to car or back. With booties, mitts and hat baby is quite snug without a danger.

[DusksAngel]

FYI the chest clip is just there are a positioner, it is not there for keeping the kid from flying out, in a major accident it likely will break, it is not designed as a safety measure to keep them in the seats, in fact they are illegal in most European countries.

 

From my understanding they are supposed to be designed to break, allowing the straps to take the force of the child. (Which is another reason to have them on the chest and not the belly).

[Serenade]

I have never heard this about coats and car seats. Then again, just as my youngest was growing out of car seats, I learned that car seats expire. I didn't know that, either. So glad my kids are 12 and 10, and I don't have to worry about car seats. I don't think I'd want to have babies anymore today. It's just too risky... :tongue_smilie:

[Runningmom80]

What I don't get is why some people feel the need to argue the rules? If you don't want to follow them, don't.

 

I have twin 2 year olds and a 6 year old. They all have fleece coats and vests. They wear the fleeces with hats and mittens in the carseats, and throw the vests on when they get out of the car. Well we put them in the toddlers. We live in NE Ohio, it gets cold. It's doable to not wear a puffy coat. Ive put them in the carseat in the puffy coat, and it was more annoying to tr to adjust the straps the right way than it was to just out the vests on them when we got out.

[wendyroo]

I do not put my kids in car seats in their coats.

 

When they were infants I put them in a pair of fleece footie jammies, strapped them in and then snuggly tucked a thin, fleece blanket around them. To keep it away from their face I made sure it was taut across their chest (almost like they were swaddled, which is not considered dangerous as long as it is snug, not loose) and tucked it under their butt and legs to keep it down.

 

By the time they were older and wanted use of their hands I did not worry about loose blankets. Sometimes they kicked them off, then they were cold for a while until the car warmed up - they learned to keep the blankets on if they wanted to be warm.

 

With my toddler and preschooler, as long as it is above 0 degrees and we are only going to be outside on the walk from the car to the store then I just put them in hats, gloves and fleece hooded sweatshirts, offer a blanket after they are strapped and we hustle to get into the store.

 

Wendy

[SKL]

I should have just set a goal to be the world's worst mother. Then at least I'd have an accomplishment under my belt.

[violamama]

I try to buy coats that aren't too bulky anyway because nobody likes trying to move around in a bulky coat. But we wear coats because it's really cold around here in the winter.

 

Ok, that said, I'm not sure I agree that this is a super clear guideline. I was told a million times not to cover an infant with a blanket. But then I'm supposed to cover them with a blanket in a car? Somehow that is suddenly ok? And I keep bringing this up and nobody seems to notice it.

 

I don't have babies anymore. So in terms of a baby in a car seat this isn't really an issue for me anymore.

 

 

Sure, what's wrong with covering them with a coat or wearing a pre-compressed material like fleece? The blanket danger is only for really little babies, is it not? Aren't there other products that safely cover a carseat infant? Like this stuff: http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=arctic+baby+seat+cover&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

 

I live in a temperate climate now, but again my M.O. would be to look into it, decide what I think is right and go from there. I would need to research it from an evidence-gathering perspective was my point, and I didn't mean to imply that my view of the stats would then need to be everybody's rule. I was trying to say that for me there is reassurance in the "rules" rather than some unspoken pressure. That would even apply to the short window of time when an infant needs special gear in order to be safe yet warm in the car.

 

We wear coats, too. We just take them off to strap in and then put them on over ourselves because otherwise we take a risk I'm not comfortable with in terms of diminished safety. And then the heater kicks in and half the time they let the coat and whatever books they were using slip to the floor, and maybe tip their water bottles so they drip on the whole mess, which makes me crazy. And then I nag them to get all that stuff out with them when we're home. Every time. But I digress...

[kitten18]

I try to buy coats that aren't too bulky anyway because nobody likes trying to move around in a bulky coat. But we wear coats because it's really cold around here in the winter. Ok, that said, I'm not sure I agree that this is a super clear guideline. I was told a million times not to cover an infant with a blanket. But then I'm supposed to cover them with a blanket in a car? Somehow that is suddenly ok? And I keep bringing this up and nobody seems to notice it. I don't have babies anymore. So in terms of a baby in a car seat this isn't really an issue for me anymore.

Most infants are in the bucket type car seats. The best way to keep them warm is with a shower-cap style car seat cover. Just elastic around the edges, they don't interfere with the car seat in any way. There is a hole for their face and they keep in a lot of body heat to keep baby toasty warm. :thumbup:

[kitten18]

Infant car seat cover.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Jolly-Jumper-Sneak--Infant-Carseat/dp/B001LPNH2G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1354224189&sr=8-1&keywords=infant+car+seat+cover