AdventureMoms Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I was offended reading the insults, and they weren't even directed toward me. Yeah, I agree too. Jennifer...maybe take a breather? You're really being downright mean at this point. I'm with you on the science, but you lost me when you started insulting every religious person on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 For a really interesting audio-story about familial tendencies in religiousity, might I recommend this fascinating case of girls switched at birth: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/360/switched-at-birth (If you didn't catch it, I'm hoping a few people get distracted by this absorbing tale, and put away the 6-shooters ..... after all, I will be heart broken if a thread where I could legitimately use the phrase "hebephilic Shinto" is deleted. ;)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Let me add that my little "script" of how these threads go was meant to show the most extreme types of posts that show up. Not every YEC or non-Christian evolutionist is rude like that. But usually at least one from each side gets their hackles up. I imagine the Catholics must be largely bewildered by the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnsinkableKristen Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (If you didn't catch it, I'm hoping a few people get distracted by this absorbing tale, and put away the 6-shooters ..... after all, I will be heart broken if a thread where I could legitimately use the phrase "hebephilic Shinto" is deleted. ;)) :lol: I won't lie - I googled that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Now, I'm the first to admit that I'm not the most learned individual ( I graduated HS with great grades but didn't go any further), but I want to know WHY Creationism and Evolution can't co-exist. I'm a Christian and I fully believe that God created this earth and everything on it. But I also believe that evolution is real. I think that teaching that things are the way they have always been, with no changes, or bits of evolution, is silly. It's unscientific. And if we demand separation of Church and government and all the public schools are government run, WHY would they be teaching Creationism anyway??? :confused: Good question. They can coexist, and do for many people (like myself). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hopefully, I haven't managed to upset everyone in every camp with this. Or upset us all equally. Let me take this moment to say I've often admired your board name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Yeah, I agree too. Jennifer...maybe take a breather? You're really being downright mean at this point. I'm with you on the science, but you lost me when you started insulting every religious person on the planet. :iagree: Might be time to break out the cupcakes. :grouphug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 :lol: I won't lie - I googled that.... And yet you didn't post the definition for those of us who are lazier than you are. Well, thanks for nothing. :glare: ;) ;) ;) ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 :iagree: Might be time to break out the cupcakes. :grouphug: Well now that you brought cupcakes into it the thread is sure to go down in flames. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 :lol: I won't lie - I googled that.... Yes, me too. I also laughed quite hard at the quote containing it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobynV Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Alright. Now we are getting somewhere. Could we please keep the thread open, because I would like to hear more about how a school board can force a teacher to teach YEC as science when he doesn't believe it. School boards choose textbooks. Typically administration makes recommendations, but ultimately the board has the final say on the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelle in MO Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I cannot arrest you. It's not illegal. I do believe it should be but since I'm NOT a jealous, magickal sky diety, I cannot make it so. I cannot imagine living in a country where something of this nature would be illegal. If we started making laws like that, this (USA) would be one scary place to live! Who would get to decide? What a slippery slope that would be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (If you didn't catch it, I'm hoping a few people get distracted by this absorbing tale, and put away the 6-shooters ..... after all, I will be heart broken if a thread where I could legitimately use the phrase "hebephilic Shinto" is deleted. ;)) :iagree: Because really, how often do you get a chance to break out the really fancy words? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureMoms Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Now, I'm the first to admit that I'm not the most learned individual ( I graduated HS with great grades but didn't go any further), but I want to know WHY Creationism and Evolution can't co-exist. I'm a Christian and I fully believe that God created this earth and everything on it. But I also believe that evolution is real. I think that teaching that things are the way they have always been, with no changes, or bits of evolution, is silly. It's unscientific. And if we demand separation of Church and government and all the public schools are government run, WHY would they be teaching Creationism anyway??? :confused: That is a truly excellent question. I do think old-earth creationism (as a religious belief) seems to work ok with evolution (as a science) for some people. But the young-earth thing, just doesn't support a lot of the science that is out there. Astronomy, biology, geology, etc, all involve things that are millions or billions of years old, so a universe that spontaneously came into being 5,000 years ago is going to invalidate a lot of the science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 :iagree: Might be time to break out the cupcakes. :grouphug: In my quest to find cupcake vodka, I had a drink that had vodka, and lavendar stuff with the rim of the martini glass coated with a fine powdered sugar. It was the most wonderful thing I have ever tasted. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I think it's fine to disagree and to debate, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who is hoping the rest of the thread can continue without personal insults. I was offended reading the insults, and they weren't even directed toward me. :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in STL Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Let me add that my little "script" of how these threads go was meant to show the most extreme types of posts that show up. Not every YEC or non-Christian evolutionist is rude like that. But usually at least one from each side gets their hackles up. I imagine the Catholics must be largely bewildered by the whole thing. One fairly bewildered Catholic here. And, for the record, every Catholic I know IRL loves cupcakes! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 :iagree: Might be time to break out the cupcakes. :grouphug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnsinkableKristen Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 But the young-earth thing, just doesn't support a lot of the science that is out there. Astronomy, biology, geology, etc, all involve things that are millions or billions of years old, so a universe that spontaneously came into being 5,000 years ago is going to invalidate a lot of the science. DH and I are not YEC, but while discussing this I felt he made a good point. He said that if you believe that God can can create "aged" things and that he created a fully formed, aged man from dust (Adam) in a matter of moments, then it really isn't a stretch to believe that he also created a fully formed, aged Earth in a matter of days/years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Looks about right to me! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 :lol: :lol: :lol: How did you find this?! Or is it original? Is this progression as created or did it evolve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Detrimental effects on science education? Are you serious? So b/c we teach Creation somehow my children's science education is somehow negatively effected? B/c we teach that there is a God who created all things and is still personally involved in our everyday life my children are somehow not receiving a proper science education? I find that offensive. Be careful where you go with this. I think evolution is a load of you-know-what...but I would never go so far as to say it has a detrimental effect on science education. Bill Nye can believe and teach what he wants. When he starts making value judgements...sorry...that ends it for me. But...I think he has enough of a following that my opinion won't amount to a hill of beans. I agree. Teaching evolution ONLY is wrong. It's indoctrination. If it were not...Creation science would also be taught. There are many, many scientific (yes I did say that) findings that point toward an Intelligent Creator. Believe what you will. A belief in evolution and against a Creator has implications that reach far and wide. How about this for instance? If all life just "happened" to come into existence by some big bang then we really don't have any purpose here. Life has no meaning. Life has no purpose. We are born. We die. AND, inherent in the belief in evolution is the belief that one life is somehow more important than another. Evolution doesn't only have a detrimental effect on science education but on LIFE in general. IMO, Creation "science" is, well, it's not a science. I was going to say it's bad science, but I don't think there is such a thing. If it is bad, it's not a science. So, yes, if you teach what is in the first quoted paragraph, I *do* believe your child's education is compromised. I don't, however, think that creation "science" person represent numbers that will threaten the science being taught in public schools. I can not fathom a situation in which creation "science" should be taught in public schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'd rather be kind than smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) These threads never turn out well. They always seem to devolve into something like this: Non-Christian evolutionist: How can you be such an idiot? Obviously the earth is billions of years old. YEC: Don't call me ignorant just because I believe differently than you. A Catholic or other theistic evolutionist: What's the big deal? The Bible is more about why God did stuff, not what scientific process he used. YEC: If you believe in death before The Fall, then you don't believe the Bible. Theistic Evolutionist: Genesis isn't meant to be a science book. No matter when death started, obviously people sin and need a Savior. Hopefully, I haven't managed to upset everyone in every camp with this. Well, I waaaaas sort of offended at the lack of choices. But then I got to the Catholic/ other theistic evolutionist and I felt better. :D Though I would split the hair that it's like fighting over the answer "blue" to the question "what's for supper". I tend to enjoy the mysteries as they are. Meaning of life? I'm really okay with that being an unanswerable question. I'm pretty sure we're God's sea monkeys. My theory - excuse me, "untested hypothesis I pulled put of my butt" (though I feel fine using the term theory as I am in no way talking about scientific inquiry) - used to exasperate my priest. I'm just like that. Edited August 31, 2012 by MyCrazyHouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'm offended by this. He's not in a kilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 "the end is nye" tag OMG, I'm busting a gut. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 DH and I are not YEC, but while discussing this I felt he made a good point. He said that if you believe that God can can create "aged" things and that he created a fully formed, aged man from dust (Adam) in a matter of moments, then it really isn't a stretch to believe that he also created a fully formed, aged Earth in a matter of days/years. Which still leads to issues in astronomy, explaining dinosaur fossils, and on and on. That is the explanation often used, but it requires disbelieving a lot of basic science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 :lol: :lol: :lol: How did you find this?! Or is it original? Is this progression as created or did it evolve? Not original, just inspired Googling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'd rather be kind than smart. But remember: kindness doesn't kill people, only people can kill people with kindness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelle in MO Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Now, I'm the first to admit that I'm not the most learned individual ( I graduated HS with great grades but didn't go any further), but I want to know WHY Creationism and Evolution can't co-exist. I'm a Christian and I fully believe that God created this earth and everything on it. But I also believe that evolution is real. I think that teaching that things are the way they have always been, with no changes, or bits of evolution, is silly. It's unscientific. And if we demand separation of Church and government and all the public schools are government run, WHY would they be teaching Creationism anyway??? :confused: I think evolution involves changes FROM one kind of animal to another kind of animal, not changes WITHIN a kind. (not yelling, just emphasizing :001_smile:) I also think separation of church and state was intended to mean that the gov't couldn't force a state religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Well, I'm probably done on the forum for the night. (If this thread is still here in the morning, I'll respond to anybody that might need a response.) While I'm gone, please try to break the record for the shortest time for a thread to be closed or deleted. :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'm offended by this. He's not in a kilt. Maybe if we all agree to be offended about the kilt and cupcake thing, we can agree to disagree on the whole evolution/creation thing. Just a thought... :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 "the end is nye" tag OMG, I'm busting a gut. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I loved that one, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Three talented liars use different names and bait each other on a really witty, HWP, high-IQ board, and then sit back and wait for the comedy to roll in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 But remember: kindness doesn't kill people, only people can kill people with kindness. :001_smile: Right. And also it's God's kindness that leads us to repentance (a good thing to google) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnsinkableKristen Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Which still leads to issues in astronomy, explaining dinosaur fossils, and on and on. That is the explanation often used, but it requires disbelieving a lot of basic science. Agreed. But you could still argue that a God capable of creating an already aged earth, could also create it full of anything He pleased - bones, algae, etc. I don't really know why He would, but I don't know much anyway :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'm not even going to bother posting what I think of Bill Nye's comments, as they don't matter a bit to me -- nor do they matter to most people, I would assume. What I would like to say is that, while most of the comments here have been respectful, a few have been downright personally insulting, and I think it is sad that anyone feels the need to be intentionally mean and disparaging toward another member here, just because they disagree on a hot-button issue. I think it's fine to disagree and to debate, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who is hoping the rest of the thread can continue without personal insults. I was offended reading the insults, and they weren't even directed toward me. :iagree::iagree::iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Agreed. But you could still argue that a God capable of creating an already aged earth, could also create it full of anything He pleased - bones, algae, etc. I don't really know why He would, but I don't know much anyway :) And that is the argument made by many, which really goes nowhere. There is a belief that fossils were placed in the ground by Satan to cause Christians to stray from the Bible. You really can't have that discussion in a science classroom with a straight face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 But remember: kindness doesn't kill people, only people can kill people with kindness. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I think evolution involves changes FROM one kind of animal to another kind of animal, not changes WITHIN a kind. (not yelling, just emphasizing :001_smile:) I also think separation of church and state was intended to mean that the gov't couldn't force a state religion. "In the broadest sense, evolution is merely change, and so is all-pervasive; galaxies, languages, and political systems all evolve. Biological evolution ... is change in the properties of populations of organisms that transcend the lifetime of a single individual. The ontogeny of an individual is not considered evolution; individual organisms do not evolve. The changes in populations that are considered evolutionary are those that are inheritable via the genetic material from one generation to the next. Biological evolution may be slight or substantial; it embraces everything from slight changes in the proportion of different alleles within a population (such as those determining blood types) to the successive alterations that led from the earliest protoorganism to snails, bees, giraffes, and dandelions." - Douglas J. Futuyma in Evolutionary Biology, Sinauer Associates 1986 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnsinkableKristen Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 There is a belief that fossils were placed in the ground by Satan to cause Christians to stray from the Bible. For real?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 For real?? For real. I've heard that one a number of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 For real?? Unfortunately, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Three talented liars use different names and bait each other on a really witty, HWP, high-IQ board, and then sit back and wait for the comedy to roll in. :lol: How original! For real?? I recently ran into this. I'd never heard it in my life. The young homeschooler who told me this had been taught that dinosaurs never existed at all, that it was a deception begun by Satan and continued by scientists. That's what I was thinking, from the other end, upthread: We all need to be informed of the arguments and agendas of all sides when it comes to our public schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I agree. Teaching evolution ONLY is wrong. It's indoctrination. If it were not...Creation science would also be taught. There are many, many scientific (yes I did say that) findings that point toward an Intelligent Creator. Believe what you will. A belief in evolution and against a Creator has implications that reach far and wide. How about this for instance? If all life just "happened" to come into existence by some big bang then we really don't have any purpose here. Life has no meaning. Life has no purpose. We are born. We die. AND, inherent in the belief in evolution is the belief that one life is somehow more important than another. Evolution doesn't only have a detrimental effect on science education but on LIFE in general. Your statements about evolution are simply wrong. And honestly, your position is why allowing creationism into a science curriculum is a serious mistake, and could have a detrimental effect on science education. You are confusing religious beliefs with science. While both can coexist, they should not be mixed in a classroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myeightkiddies Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'm not even going to bother posting what I think of Bill Nye's comments, as they don't matter a bit to me -- nor do they matter to most people, I would assume. What I would like to say is that, while most of the comments here have been respectful, a few have been downright personally insulting, and I think it is sad that anyone feels the need to be intentionally mean and disparaging toward another member here, just because they disagree on a hot-button issue. I think it's fine to disagree and to debate, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who is hoping the rest of the thread can continue without personal insults. I was offended reading the insults, and they weren't even directed toward me. :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 :iagree: How about our enthusiastic atheists remember that Creationists do not all hold to the same idea of what that means. Those on one end of the scale may be eons away from what you believe, but those on the other only differ from you on whether a god made it happen. It'd be so much friendlier to ensure you're only kicking people the right amount. A flat kicking tax really isn't fair in this situation. :rolleyes: Rosie LOL Rosie! and :iagree::iagree::iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delirium Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 These threads never turn out well. They always seem to devolve into something like this: Non-Christian evolutionist: How can you be such an idiot? Obviously the earth is billions of years old. YEC: Don't call me ignorant just because I believe differently than you. A Catholic or other theistic evolutionist: What's the big deal? The Bible is more about why God did stuff, not what scientific process he used. YEC: If you believe in death before The Fall, then you don't believe the Bible. Theistic Evolutionist: Genesis isn't meant to be a science book. No matter when death started, obviously people sin and need a Savior. Hopefully, I haven't managed to upset everyone in every camp with this. Totally offended, my choice isn't on there! Oh wait...I'm not offended because my choice is to each their own.... love, kilts, and cupcakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I was offended reading the insults, and they weren't even directed toward me. :iagree: I imagine the Catholics must be largely bewildered by the whole thing. *raises hand* :001_smile: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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