Has anyone used MCT and NOT liked it?

[Tatt2mama]

I've been reading some MCT reviews here, and other places, and I haven't found too many people saying they didn't like it. I'm considering Level 1, and I'm just wondering if there's anyone out there who didn't like it, and why (just trying to do my due diligence, rather than rushing into buying it, like i usually do with curricula...).

 

Thanks in advance,

Flo

Mama to ds 9 and dd 8.

[Canadianmumof5]

I jumped on the MCT bandwagon 2 years ago and was so excited to get started with it. Within a few days - I just knew it wasn't going to work here. It was just too abstract - we didn't really like the story format of grammar island. I personally didn't feel as though it was as rigorous or as in depth as FLL. And it didn't seem like the kids knew what to think of it.

 

We are more textbook-y over here so we were lost with grammar island.

 

It seems like it works for a lot of kids - just not mine.

 

We've tried lots of different grammar programs (PLL/ILL, GWG, MCT, FLL) and have come back to FLL for DD8 & DS6 and then DS11 is working on Hake 7.

 

My kids (and I) really prefer a more structured approach to most of our subjects.

[BugsMama]

If you're looking for the cons-

 

We don't "get" it. I don't see the magic in it. We've set it aside and will try it again in a few months. My child understands the grammar, but we don't see the joy in MCT. I am disappointed with the writing instruction. The grammar is "okay" but nothing earth shattering new or awesome, like I had expected from the reviews. It isn't particularly easy to use, since it isn't laid out by lessons, and the teachers materials are in the back of the book, not with the lessons, so there is flipping around and planning needed.

 

I was disappointed in the illustrations and graphics. For something described as "beautiful", I found it to be a bit of a joke. The building language book has terrible, blurry, black and white images that are hard to even decipher what you are supposed to be looking at, even when captioned. There aren't as many pictures as I expected, and not all the books were in color. They were not worth the price new at ALL IMO.

 

It's an enjoyable read, and it's gentle while still teaching what it needs to (which is nice for grammar). I returned my new set, and bought them used, and feel much better about THAT price.

 

LOL..... flame away! :leaving:

[radiobrain]

No flames...

 

MCT is definitely not for everyone. If you don't get it, or it isn't quite right, that doesn't mean anything. I hate FLL and WWE with a passion, as it is counter-inuitive to the way we all think, does that mean it isn't a good curriculum? Heck no! The same goes with MCT.

 

In my gazillion years of perusing curriculum, I tend to notice what people are using who seem to like the same types of things that I do. We love Life of Fred, we dislike saxon, we did well with Singapore, but other things could have worked as well. So, I pay attention to someone who likes a few things we do, as it might be in the right ballpark.

 

No curriculum is magic, and if you don't like it, that's fine. ;)

 

BTW, as I am entering level 5 (oh, how did that happen!?)...I will disagree with it NOT being rigorous. It is very intense. It has a great depth. It just looks different than a typical idea of "rigorous," and the first 2 levels look far less in-depth than they really are. It doesn't seem like drudgery.

Edited August 29, 2012 by radiobrain

[Trez]

I agree with the comment regarding the abstract nature of the books. To be honest, I'm not sure what I really think about it. My son enjoyed reading the grammar book and was able to retain many of the meanings in Caesar's English. I'm not sure how much retention there was of the grammar but we moved on to GWG. I think we are also a little more used to the textbook approach.

[Crimson Wife]

Similar threads on the topic:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=351609

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=217482

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=247269

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=325764

[justLisa]

I am doing it this year. I started last year, and I'll admit I felt like *I* needed to refresh my grammar knowledge so we did FLL3. This year we are doing MCT Island because I need something light, as I want to focus more on writing this year.

 

I feel for us, that it has been better after some basic workbook-y boring grammar study.

[radiobrain]

Well speaking of the devil. You are the one who inspired me to stick with it. :D

My spidey sense was tingling....

 

 

Do you want to thank me, spank me or slap me? :D

[TracyP]

I have only used MCT at the GI level...

 

I have mixed feelings about it. It does not have explicit writing instructions and doesn't cover some things that you often see in a grammar book: usage, possessives, dictionary, quotations, etc. Not covering these things is not that big a deal to me, but paying $170+ bucks and having to cover this stuff elsewhere bothers me.

 

Having said that, my dd(8) LOVED it and she has gone back to read it again for fun! That in itself makes it easier to overlook a few cons, thus the mixed feelings. If I have extra funds, I will be buying Town next year.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Although after meeting him I was really impressed and I do somewhat feel compelled to support his efforts.

 

I have not met him but I had a similar response after watching all of his videos on the RFWP web site. I immediately adored him. In fact, I was not terribly impressed with the original samples that were available when I started researching MCTLA but I was absolutely ready to take a leap of faith after hearing him speak. We love MCTLA here and, hate me if you will :tongue_smilie:, I often wish I could have the choice to pay more and get the texts in hardcover so they would have a chance of surviving to be handed down.

[TracyP]

We love MCTLA here and, hate me if you will :tongue_smilie:, I often wish I could have the choice to pay more and get the texts in hardcover so they would have a chance of surviving to be handed down.

 

Choice is the key word. You can choose to pay as much as you want. Now if you go and convince them to move to hardcover and up the price on the rest of us....:boxing_smiley::D

[Alte Veste Academy]

Choice is the key word. You can choose to pay as much as you want. Now if you go and convince them to move to hardcover and up the price on the rest of us....:boxing_smiley::D

 

No worries. That's the first time I have ever even voiced the though "out loud." :D

[Tatt2mama]

Thanks so much for all the responses! Thanks especially Crimson Wife, for the links. I knew there had to be threads on this exact topic, but was having a hard time finding them.

 

I do understand some of the limitations of the program: 1. Not 100% complete. 2. Heavy on teacher involvement. 3. Very unstructured. But as a former English teacher, I really like the depth of the instruction of how language works, and works together. I already have FLL 3 & 4, and Exercises in English, but I am sorely tempted by MCT...

 

Flo

[Chrysalis Academy]

No flames...

 

MCT is definitely not for everyone. If you don't get it, or it isn't quite right, that doesn't mean anything. I hate FLL and WWE with a passion, as it is counter-inuitive to the way we all think, does that mean it isn't a good curriculum? Heck no! The same goes with MCT.

 

In my gazillion years of perusing curriculum, I tend to notice what people are using who seem to like the same types of things that I do. We love Life of Fred, we dislike saxon, we did well with Singapore, but other things could have worked as well. So, I pay attention to someone who likes a few things we do, as it might be in the right ballpark.

 

No curriculum is magic, and if you don't like it, that's fine. ;)

 

BTW, as I am entering level 5 (oh, how did that happen!?)...I will disagree with it NOT being rigorous. It is very intense. It has a great depth. It just looks different than a typical idea of "rigorous," and the first 2 levels look far less in-depth than they really are. It doesn't seem like drudgery.

 

:iagree: with every bit of this post, especially the bold! I have realized that if someone has a lot of things in their siggy that we like, their recs are likely to work for us, and vice versa. . . there seems to be an MCT-LOF lunatic fringe here in the Hive, which I'm absurdly grateful for! :D

[dbmamaz]

when I started homeschooling i was so excited for things which were explicitly NOT text-booky. Turns out my oldest does pretty well w text-books. LOF is only ok as review. We used LOF several years behind schedule (and only 2 levels) and he liked it, but we got tired of it. i am tempted to pick up island and try it w my youngest, though . ..

[swellmomma]

Yup. I can't say more for fear of never getting a chance with the hummer :lol:

 

 

Actually we really liked it, the kids loved it BUT they didn't retain anything. We switched to it from R&S and my oldest son that was my kid laying on teh floor screaming at the thought of doing R&S actually asked me to buy it again at conference last spring because even he recognized that it worked better for him. In his words, MCT was fun but he likes how he feels smart from R&S more.

 

That said we will still be using MCT vocabulary and poetry as we all love those components best.

[thundersweet]

Yup. I can't say more for fear of never getting a chance with the hummer :lol:

 

 

Actually we really liked it, the kids loved it BUT they didn't retain anything. We switched to it from R&S and my oldest son that was my kid laying on teh floor screaming at the thought of doing R&S actually asked me to buy it again at conference last spring because even he recognized that it worked better for him. In his words, MCT was fun but he likes how he feels smart from R&S more.

 

That said we will still be using MCT vocabulary and poetry as we all love those components best.[/quote

 

OMG...your avatar is hilarious?

[Shelsi]

We've been using MCT for 2.5 weeks now. So obviously not long at all but we're almost through the Grammar Island book. It is not working for us at all and I was sooo excited for it so I'm really bummed.

 

Nothing has ever bored my ds more than MCT. His eyes glaze over and he starts yawning as soon as the book is in his hands. He has NEVER done that with anything else ever and we've done some ridiculously boring stuff (did k12 LA last year, holy wow was that boring).

 

At the moment we're sticking with it because I've been planning on using MCT for the past 2 yrs and never researched other curriculum. I thought he would like it because it has so little writing (he has dysgraphia) but instead he doesn't even hear it - even when I have him read it he can't tell me 1 single thing he read. Not only that it seemed to make him brain-dump all the grammar he did know! Suddenly he can't tell me what a verb or an adverb is when that's stuff he's known and had down cold for a few years now.

 

So far I'm really really unhappy with the purchase.

[Elfknitter.#]

Monkey 1 currently uses MCTLA Island and loves it. I can see her responding positively and enjoying the lessons. She's even loving the copy of Alice in Wonderland from the Lit Package. So far, she's learned what alliteration is from reading it.

 

That said, I don't see myself utilizing it with Monkey 2. He's more of a short and quick, let's get to the point, kind of learner. I don't see MCT working well with him.

[....]

 

I have mixed feelings about it. It does not have explicit writing instructions and doesn't cover some things that you often see in a grammar book: usage, possessives, dictionary, quotations, etc. Not covering these things is not that big a deal to me, but paying $170+ bucks and having to cover this stuff elsewhere bothers me.

 

I have a love/hate relationship with MCT. My daughter will be ready to start the Essay Voyage level later this fall. It is VERY expensive for us right now (we have some extenuating circumstances this year). In fact, after we finish this level, we may not be able to afford the next level for awhile. So, we might stop here.

 

I never liked the writing instruction, HOWEVER...I have never seen ANYTHING explain paragraphs like Paragraph Town. I'm actually going to have my son (who uses a different program) read through Paragraph Town this year. What a clear, in-depth explanation of paragraphs! I love that book. My daughter was writing all kinds of paragraphs after we read that book together. Good intro to topic sentences, too.

 

My daughter also really enjoys the poetry books, but we don't try to retain anything from them. She did write me a poem using "endjamb" - which was kinda funny, because I didn't think she had remembered reading about that (in Building Poems).

 

I do follow TWTM for writing. Also, if MCT's LA covers mechanics, I have not seen it! No grammar rules...writing rules for punctuation, etc. Those things are important. I have the CLE English Handbook and we are going through that book together. If I drop MCT after this year, we will probably just use that for grammar. It was maybe 20 bucks and it covers every grammar/punctuation/diagramming rule I've ever seen. I think it can take us up to high school (for 20 bucks).

 

After giving my opinion on the subject, :tongue_smilie: I do think my daughter really enjoys MCT's LA. It has probably been one of her favorite programs so far.

[....]

Nothing has ever bored my ds more than MCT. His eyes glaze over and he starts yawning as soon as the book is in his hands. He has NEVER done that with anything else ever and we've done some ridiculously boring stuff (did k12 LA last year, holy wow was that boring).

 

At the moment we're sticking with it because I've been planning on using MCT for the past 2 yrs and never researched other curriculum. I thought he would like it because it has so little writing (he has dysgraphia) but instead he doesn't even hear it - even when I have him read it he can't tell me 1 single thing he read. Not only that it seemed to make him brain-dump all the grammar he did know! Suddenly he can't tell me what a verb or an adverb is when that's stuff he's known and had down cold for a few years now.

 

It sounds like it is a really bad fit for your son. I think MCT's LA is for a very specific type of learner. FWIW, my daughter really enjoys it, but my son uses Galore Park English. He can't stand stuff like MCT, either. He's a textbook kind-of-dude and wants you to just get to the point and tell him EXACTLY what he needs to know (with no frilly pictures!). :lol:

[Crimson Wife]

My daughter also really enjoys the poetry books, but we don't try to retain anything from them.

 

This is my DD as well. We've actually gone through Building Poems twice now, once when she first did "town" and then again 3 semesters later in combination with the poetry section in Figuratively Speaking. Most of it went WHOOOSH over her head, twice :lol: If you give her a list with definitions she can recognize which poems fit which patterns, but if you asked her the difference between trochee and spondee without a "cheat sheet" she'd be all :confused:

[....]

but if you asked her the difference between trochee and spondee without a "cheat sheet" she'd be all :confused:

 

I would be :confused: too! :lol: I didn't learn any of that until I took a poetry class in college.

[EKS]

I love certain aspects of MCT but really don't like others.

 

What I don't like:

 

The writing instruction as anything other than modeling good sentences, paragraphs, essays, etc.

The writing assignments

The fact that there is essentially no mechanics instruction

The repetitiveness of the grammar books

That the sentences in the practice books can only reach a low level of complexity due to space issues (needing to fit in one line on the page)

That the sentences in the practice books don't have a logical progression from easy to difficult

That the sentences in the upper level practice books seem complicated because they use difficult words not because they are difficult grammatically

The way the grammar materials run easy while the writing materials run difficult, so that by the time you hit the Voyage level there's a huge disconnect

[Beth in SW WA]

:iagree: with every bit of this post, especially the bold! I have realized that if someone has a lot of things in their siggy that we like, their recs are likely to work for us, and vice versa. . . there seems to be an MCT-LOF lunatic fringe here in the Hive, which I'm absurdly grateful for! :D

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Dd9 loves MCT books and LOF. She just came to me 5 min ago with an exuberant revelation re Fred's sister in the geo book. She also likes other 'math stories' (Number Devil, Sir Cumference, etc). Connecting learning with a positive emotion is an extra tool to make the learning stick. These books help.

 

As for MCT, Dd9 is taking MCT Town via Landry. So far she enjoys the class and the grammar discussions. For a little girl who is in heaven discussing grammar with 'friends' all over the country, this class is a win-win.

[Crimson Wife]

I would be :confused: too! :lol: I didn't learn any of that until I took a poetry class in college.

 

When looking at the pre-test for BP, I vaguely recognized the terms as something covered in one of my high school honors English classes, but that was it :lol:

[Crimson Wife]

The way the grammar materials run easy while the writing materials run difficult, so that by the time you hit the Voyage level there's a huge disconnect

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[foxbridgeacademy]

If you're looking for the cons-

 

We don't "get" it. I don't see the magic in it. We've set it aside and will try it again in a few months. My child understands the grammar, but we don't see the joy in MCT. I am disappointed with the writing instruction. The grammar is "okay" but nothing earth shattering new or awesome, like I had expected from the reviews. It isn't particularly easy to use, since it isn't laid out by lessons, and the teachers materials are in the back of the book, not with the lessons, so there is flipping around and planning needed.

 

I was disappointed in the illustrations and graphics. For something described as "beautiful", I found it to be a bit of a joke. The building language book has terrible, blurry, black and white images that are hard to even decipher what you are supposed to be looking at, even when captioned. There aren't as many pictures as I expected, and not all the books were in color. They were not worth the price new at ALL IMO.

 

It's an enjoyable read, and it's gentle while still teaching what it needs to (which is nice for grammar). I returned my new set, and bought them used, and feel much better about THAT price.

 

LOL..... flame away! :leaving:

:iagree:

MCT does not work for some families due to it's abstract nature. We love MCT, especially the poems. My only real complaint is the $$ for new. So either buy it used (holds value really well) or you could borrow it from a friend. I have passed around my copy to 3 families in th past 6 mos.

[Violet Crown]

If you have a background in linguistics or poetry, you may find yourself throwing the books against a wall.

[dbmamaz]

If you have a background in linguistics or poetry, you may find yourself throwing the books against a wall.

Please explain!

[dbmamaz]

I have a love/hate relationship with MCT. . . .

I never liked the writing instruction, HOWEVER...I have never seen ANYTHING explain paragraphs like Paragraph Town. . . . Also, if MCT's LA covers mechanics, I have not seen it! No grammar rules...writing rules for punctuation, etc. Those things are important.

Love this! (esp the bits here of course :D)

 

This might explain a lot for me. The first thing i ever used from MCT was paragraph town. My son had finished 7 years of public school and actually had good grammar. but he couldnt write a paragraph for anything. I still remember his big ah-ha moment when he had written a paragraph describing a scene from the bottom to the top . . it was the best paragraph he'd ever written and the effect of the image rising was so powerful, it made a real, lasting impression on him.

 

I dont remember anything so wonderful in Essay Voyage. As i mentioned, we came to despise most of the essay examples but i thought maybe it was us. i also was starting to wonder at all the grammar NOT covered by the end of grammar voyage.

 

About the instructions being light compared to the assignments, I actually liked that. It meant that the 101 sentences were not all review, new concepts and subtleties were still introduced during the practice book

[Crimson Wife]

Please explain!

 

It's a crazy-long thread, but Sharon goes into detail here.

[Chrysalis Academy]

snip

 

I never liked the writing instruction, HOWEVER...I have never seen ANYTHING explain paragraphs like Paragraph Town. I'm actually going to have my son (who uses a different program) read through Paragraph Town this year. What a clear, in-depth explanation of paragraphs! I love that book. My daughter was writing all kinds of paragraphs after we read that book together. Good intro to topic sentences, too.

 

snip

 

QUOTE]

 

:iagree: DD is using WWS and Paragraph Town. They are remarkably complementary. I was kind of shocked when we started WWS that, other than providing a definition, there was no real discussion or exercises of paragraphs and topic sentences. DD has had a hard time in her assignments deciding when a new paragraph is warranted, and WWS has been no help with this so far. (We just finished Week 8. Maybe it comes up later?) Paragraph Town is really focusing on this, and it is great.

 

The MCT writing books also do a very good job connecting grammar to writing. This is something SWB discussed in her lectures - you study grammar & spelling in service of good writing - but the connection is not always obvious to the student. MCT makes it explicit. If you have a student who needs to know *why* they are studying something, and how it connects to EVERYTHING ELSE ON EARTH!!! :glare: then this is really helpful.

 

Oh yeah, this is supposed to be a thread on why we *don't* like MCT, right? Sorry :leaving:

[Violet Crown]

Please explain!

 

Briefly: At least in the Island series, the grammar is the outdated 19th-century approach of defining "parts of speech" by the meaning of each word, stuffing words that behave quite differently linguistically into the same category for the sake of maintaining the arbitrary eight (six? nine? I can never remember) "parts of speech" despite the nonsensical grammatical results.

 

In the poetry book, he makes absurd assertions about phonology, and doesn't seem to understand differences in British or pre-19th century pronunciations and modern American pronunciation, leading him to find near rhymes where the rhymes are perfect.

 

I no longer have the books, so I can't cite specific examples. I've seen a lot worse for hs English curriculum, but for the money, I would have liked accuracy and some nod to the last century of linguistic understanding.

[linguistmama]

Sharon, are you still using Understanding English Grammar: A Linguistic Approach? Any other recommendations? I've also been wondering if Excavating English is a good middle school option or not.

[FairProspects]

Briefly: At least in the Island series, the grammar is the outdated 19th-century approach of defining "parts of speech" by the meaning of each word, stuffing words that behave quite differently linguistically into the same category for the sake of maintaining the arbitrary eight (six? nine? I can never remember) "parts of speech" despite the nonsensical grammatical results.

 

In the poetry book, he makes absurd assertions about phonology, and doesn't seem to understand differences in British or pre-19th century pronunciations and modern American pronunciation, leading him to find near rhymes where the rhymes are perfect.

 

I no longer have the books, so I can't cite specific examples. I've seen a lot worse for hs English curriculum, but for the money, I would have liked accuracy and some nod to the last century of linguistic understanding.

 

Wow, thank you. You have exactly articulated what it is about MCT that bothers me. I've been trying to figure it out without the correct terminology for about a week now!

[3Blessings]

I agree with pp about near rhymes and phonology, but I still love it because my kids love it. They love the tone of the books. It's like having a conversation with someone.

 

We are having fun with it and will probably pick up FLL again in January 2013. I would not use it as a stand alone writing/grammar program.

[Violet Crown]

Sharon, are you still using Understanding English Grammar: A Linguistic Approach? Any other recommendations? I've also been wondering if Excavating English is a good middle school option or not.

 

I haven't seen Excavating English. Tell me more.

 

I have been using Understanding English Grammar, and combining it with some second-hand A Beka grammar teacher's guides in a useful way. UEG doesn't have much in the way of practice sentences, so I've been cherry-picking from the thousands of sentences in A Beka. I just read them out to Middle Girl and we do our grammar work orally, which actually helps a lot in disentangling it from orthography. (It also allows me to re-word annoying sentences.)

[linguistmama]

http://www.ellenjmchenrydownloads.com/Excavating-English-Digital-Download-EEDD.htm

 

It says it's about the history of the English language for middle school ages. It doesn't look like it would have much grammar, but I thought it might be good for the history part. My 7yo already asks me why English is such a pain compared to Spanish so I may buy it soon as a fun resource. :tongue_smilie: I majored in linguistics, but I'm hoping this program would help me teach things on a child's level rather than a college level.

[Aloha2U]

I agree with pp about near rhymes and phonology, but I still love it because my kids love it. They love the tone of the books. It's like having a conversation with someone.

 

We are having fun with it and will probably pick up FLL again in January 2013. I would not use it as a stand alone writing/grammar program.

 

:iagree:

 

It's overpriced, imo, and I would never use it as a stand alone grammar/writing program, either. Though still expensive to purchase in unnew/pre-owned condition and use strictly as a supplement, my little man and I like it enough to do just that - FLL three days a week, MCT on the fourth. :D He usually notices and actually asks for it, if I attempt to skip or postpone it for the following week.

[Researcher]

I don't know how my kids ever felt about it because I was never able to implement it. The program looks great on the outside, but I find the lack of organization for the teacher to be the death of a program for me. I remember sitting with all of the books laid out for a week, and I still couldn't figure out how it was all supposed to fit together.

 

Now I understand that it does, thanks to another wonderful homeschool mom. She was kind enough to point out how the pieces fit. Why didn't MCT type out a page at the beginning to clue the rest of us in? Don't know, but it prevented me from ever seeing any "magic" in the program.

[Violet Crown]

http://www.ellenjmchenrydownloads.com/Excavating-English-Digital-Download-EEDD.htm

 

It says it's about the history of the English language for middle school ages. It doesn't look like it would have much grammar, but I thought it might be good for the history part. My 7yo already asks me why English is such a pain compared to Spanish so I may buy it soon as a fun resource. :tongue_smilie: I majored in linguistics, but I'm hoping this program would help me teach things on a child's level rather than a college level.

 

Thanks! Will check it out.

[Halcyon]

I've been reading some MCT reviews here, and other places, and I haven't found too many people saying they didn't like it. I'm considering Level 1, and I'm just wondering if there's anyone out there who didn't like it, and why (just trying to do my due diligence, rather than rushing into buying it, like i usually do with curricula...).

 

Thanks in advance,

Flo

Mama to ds 9 and dd 8.

 

You know, i thought my youngest would adore it. Meh. He could take it or leave it.

[Embassy]

My son did not like it at all. I did, but he was much happier with something like Rod and Staff.

 

I also used Excavating English last school year. It was an excellent program that my son loved. I used it for vocabulary and it also helped my son's spelling. I say that because I was giving him a placement test at the end of the year and he was spelling a word I thought he didn't know. He didn't get it right, but he was close. I asked him how he knew it was supposed to be the way he wrote it and he told me he spelled it that way because of the word's origin.