Beth in SW WA Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 :iagree: I think most of us think of accelerated learning versus accelerated schooling when we think of this board, but that is a misnomer by definition of the board description, which I had to go back and read. Perhaps SWB left this description vague so that more people feel free to participate. Is your child working ahead of grade level in one or more areas? Share thoughts and questions here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I like that this forum is for parents of both gifted and accelerated children, because there is nothing more annoying than debates about whether someone's kid is "really gifted" or "just hothoused." I have seen gifted forums consumed with anxiety over whether a display of advanced learning "counts" or whether it was contaminated by parental teaching, and I have had someone rudely go out of their way to assure me that Alex is "well exposed" rather than gifted. I'm glad that the emhpasis on acceleration means that we don't get into any of that "real giftedness" nonsense here. That said, I think that it is appropriate to discuss the purpose, wisdom, and value of particular models of acceleration here. I don't want this to be a support-only forum in which parents receive nothing but praise. There are legitimate differences of opinion about breadth vs. depth, speed vs. comprehensiveness, in the education of an advanced child. There are legitimate differences of opinion in what serves a gifted or advance child best. Why not discuss them? Also, in a world outside the Common Core standards :tongue_smilie:, there may be legitimate issues to discuss about what constitutes an accelerated program. The Bloggermom thread linked to above was particularly concerning to me , in that she was planning to call her children "graduated from high school" at an extremely early age based on completion of an extremely weak high school program designed for students not interested in pursuing higher education. Should everyone really just have smiled and nodded, and praised her for having such accelerated kids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) There are legitimate differences of opinion about breadth vs. depth, speed vs. comprehensiveness, in the education of an advanced child. There are legitimate differences of opinion in what serves a gifted or advance child best. Why not discuss them? Also, in a world outside the Common Core standards :tongue_smilie:, there may be legitimate issues to discuss about what constitutes an accelerated program. The Bloggermom thread linked to above was particularly concerning to me , in that she was planning to call her children "graduated from high school" at an extremely early age based on completion of an extremely weak high school program designed for students not interested in pursuing higher education. Should everyone really just have smiled and nodded, and praised her for having such accelerated kids? If we didn't discuss them I'd been stumbling around in the dark. :D I was pointing out my own observation, I hadn't really even realized that the board description was written the way it is, I just read accelerated learners and interpreted it as accelerated learners versus accelerated schooling. I don't agree with graduating kids early based upon completion of a weak program, standards have changed. I may not have to adhere to those changes in my teaching like PS's do, but my DC will certainly be competing against them when they graduate. Edited August 29, 2012 by melmichigan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I'm glad we all give and receive responses we or others don't necessarily want to hear. We can't challenge ourselves and grow as parents otherwise. I admit to feeling nervous sometimes to ask because I am naturally an introvert but more often than not I'm really glad I asked too. We are navigating a crazy journey. It's not always kilts and cupcakes :D. We are not just teaching our kids to fish, but also metaphorically, building the rod together, helping them find the bait, string it securely, and then we either hold them securely (if they are younger) or watch from the sidelines, hoping for goodness sake that they don't slip on the rocks. But even if they do slip, we've also taught them to swim (or given them some life jacket of sorts) and we know they are going to need to learn to fight the current because sometimes life is like that. What's important though is that our kids want to do the fishing. *They* want to land that prize catch. That's the real difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudswinger Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I'm late to this discussion, since the OP seems to have left. But regarding early college in the medical field, we know of one kid who is in an early college program at a local university, and the medical school(at the same university, no less!) refused to accept him on his age. They felt that he would be too young when he finished and would not be able to legally perform certain tasks required of doctors. So he needs to do something for a year or two before they will accept him. Academically he's very well prepared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I'm late to this discussion, since the OP seems to have left. But regarding early college in the medical field, we know of one kid who is in an early college program at a local university, and the medical school(at the same university, no less!) refused to accept him on his age. They felt that he would be too young when he finished and would not be able to legally perform certain tasks required of doctors. So he needs to do something for a year or two before they will accept him. Academically he's very well prepared. Medicine is an undergraduate degree in Britain and they often won't take students younger than 18 because they like to put them on the wards as soon as possible, and they can't do that until they are adult. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMV Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (gently) I would rethink this plan if your child thinks that they would like to go on to med or vet school. Following your plan, imo, the odds of your child being accepted to medical or vet school after completing an online bachelor program while still a teen would be slim to none. If you think that medical school may be in your child's future, I would definitely check with some medical admissions folk before implementing your plan. :iagree: In addition: *Medical schools require certain courses (usually at least 8 credits of college chemistry with labs, 8 credits of college biology with labs, 8 credits of organic chemistry with labs, 8 credits of physics with labs, 4-8 credits of calculus, and psychology) and usually they want these to actually be done on a college campus and ideally at the main matriculation campus. We've been navigating around this with our daughter (who will not be graduating from high school until she is 17) because she took (and received 5 on the AP exams) AP Biology and AP Chemistry. She is contemplating medical school in her future and was toying with taking Organic Chemistry as a co-matric class at a local university. She has opted instead to take a college genetics course instead so she can take Organic wherever she ends up matriculating in Fall 2013. The genetics course also fits much better with her plan for 4 day weekends so she is psyched about that as well. *At least a few (and I think more than a few) states will not license physicians who are younger than 21 so this is another consideration I would think with your possible schedule. I also know some medical schools will not allow their students to begin clinical clerkships in the third year if they are under 21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowbeltmom Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 She is contemplating medical school in her future and was toying with taking Organic Chemistry as a co-matric class at a local university. She has opted instead to take a college genetics course instead so she can take Organic wherever she ends up matriculating in Fall 2013. From what I have read, you made a wise decision not taking Organic. My son is self studying organic this year because I have been warned that it would be a "ding" to have it on his medical school application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMV Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 From what I have read, you made a wise decision not taking Organic. My son is self studying organic this year because I have been warned that it would be a "ding" to have it on his medical school application. Thanks! At the moment she is 16 and I think she is too young to be sure that medical school is really her future (and I say that as a practicing physician myself) but I also don't want us to do anything that makes it really hard for her to get there if she affirms it is indeed the path she wants to take. She is also taking AP Physics this year through the charter school within a school so she may end up coming into college with almost all of her required pre-med course work completed. I don't worry so much about the biology because most medical school will be happy to see successfully completed upper level biology courses at the matriculating institution and unless her plans change she will certainly take a lot more biology. I could also see a year of physical chemistry or inorganic being beneficial for her so that would probably work if using the AP Chemistry credit is a problem. I guess she'll deal with the physics issue when/if it presents itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firestar Academy Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 CAn I ask a question about classes at community college? If one has a child who does really well (not sure accelerated is the word, here. Maybe talented.) in an artistic area, think music, sculpture, photography, drawing, and that child wants to study further in that area, where would you suggest that child go to take classes to learn more about those things?? The child doesn't want to take 'fun' classes but wants to seriously study their artistic talent with others who are serious. The local community college is an option. The child is young. just looking for information. Thanks! Robin in NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 CAn I ask a question about classes at community college? If one has a child who does really well (not sure accelerated is the word, here. Maybe talented.) in an artistic area, think music, sculpture, photography, drawing, and that child wants to study further in that area, where would you suggest that child go to take classes to learn more about those things?? The child doesn't want to take 'fun' classes but wants to seriously study their artistic talent with others who are serious. The local community college is an option. The child is young. just looking for information. Thanks! Robin in NJ I think I'd try art schools first and see if they have a pre-pro program. I know the art school here has classes for younger students and that most good music schools have per-pro programs where a not quite ready for admissions into a degree program student can still study at a very high level. My gut feeling is that art classes at a CC are likely to be general Ed classes, not serious art major classes and probably won't be what your child wants, and I know that in my music school it's very, very typical for a pre-pro student to be invited to start performing with university ensembles and taking college music classes before they have the high school transcript to qualify for official dual enrollment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 The child doesn't want to take 'fun' classes but wants to seriously study their artistic talent with others who are serious. J I would suggest a mentor. One good starting place might be to look at places where community artists are active - is there an arts organization or an arts center. Look at who teachers their classes for adults and see if you can set up a meeting with one of their teachers. If you can find a good mentor that can lead to further opportunities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 CAn I ask a question about classes at community college? If one has a child who does really well (not sure accelerated is the word, here. Maybe talented.) in an artistic area, think music, sculpture, photography, drawing, and that child wants to study further in that area, where would you suggest that child go to take classes to learn more about those things?? The child doesn't want to take 'fun' classes but wants to seriously study their artistic talent with others who are serious. The local community college is an option. The child is young. just looking for information. Thanks! Robin in NJ I would actually contact the community college and ask them for their advice. Even if they don't think the classes would be a good fit, they might very well know someone who would be seriously interested in mentoring a young, highly interested person. I know if someone asked me to work with a mathematically inclined child who was genuinely interested in learning all that they could about math I'd do it for gas money, and the only reason I'd ask for the gas money is because I'm broke :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firestar Academy Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Thank you all for taking the time to type up responses. the info you all have provided in all these pages has me thinking about 'other' opportunities to try to give my daughter. she is currently taking music classes at CC already. the college is 15 minutes from home. It is actually closer than the grocery store. I think I'd try art schools first and see if they have a pre-pro program. I know the art school here has classes for younger students and that most good music schools have per-pro programs where a not quite ready for admissions into a degree program student can still study at a very high level. My gut feeling is that art classes at a CC are likely to be general Ed classes, not serious art major classes and probably won't be what your child wants, and I know that in my music school it's very, very typical for a pre-pro student to be invited to start performing with university ensembles and taking college music classes before they have the high school transcript to qualify for official dual enrollment. I will look to see if there is an art school nearby. I don't think so. Our CC doesn't have 'official dual enrollment' rules for homeschoolers. when the child can handle the workload of any particular class they can register. They must take the placement test before enrolling in the 30th credit hour. I would suggest a mentor. One good starting place might be to look at places where community artists are active - is there an arts organization or an arts center. Look at who teachers their classes for adults and see if you can set up a meeting with one of their teachers. If you can find a good mentor that can lead to further opportunities. nope, no arts center, as far as I can tell except on other campuses. or philadelphia and I don't drive into phily. I would actually contact the community college and ask them for their advice. Even if they don't think the classes would be a good fit, they might very well know someone who would be seriously interested in mentoring a young, highly interested person. I know if someone asked me to work with a mathematically inclined child who was genuinely interested in learning all that they could about math I'd do it for gas money, and the only reason I'd ask for the gas money is because I'm broke :D The community college does think she is a good fit for more classes. they highly encourage homeschoolers to take classes here. I was just trying to get ideas of more depth to her music studies. robin in NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacongirl Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 nope, no arts center, as far as I can tell except on other campuses. or philadelphia and I don't drive into phily. robin in NJ I agree that community college may not offer what you are looking for in art programs. Where in NJ are you? I can think of several arts centers in SJ off the top of my head that offer classes of all levels. And...how about taking the train to Philly? Easy and fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firestar Academy Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I agree that community college may not offer what you are looking for in art programs. Where in NJ are you? I can think of several arts centers in SJ off the top of my head that offer classes of all levels. And...how about taking the train to Philly? Easy and fun. we are in east burlington county. if you find philly on the map and go half way into nj, that's us. I won't take the train into philly either. I have a limit on how far I will travel each day. If you have names of art centers(she is musically talented) that would be good. Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 The community college does think she is a good fit for more classes. they highly encourage homeschoolers to take classes here. I was just trying to get ideas of more depth to her music studies. If she's enjoying them, the teachers think she's a good fit, you can afford them, and she's learning, I'd definitely continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 we are in east burlington county. if you find philly on the map and go half way into nj, that's us. I won't take the train into philly either. I have a limit on how far I will travel each day. If you have names of art centers(she is musically talented) that would be good. Robin I am in South Jersey about 30-40 min from Philly. We've found a wonderful classical teacher without crossing a bridge but the best places I have found for programs like orchestra, ensembles, theory classes, etc...for a musically gifted child are far like Philly or New York. I travel to both regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma2three Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Would you consider an arts-based summer program? I spent a summer at a summer program for high school students at an arts-based college, and it was a wonderful experience, and I created many things for my portfolio. We all stayed in the college dorms, and it was a lot of fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathwonk Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) I wish I could have read the deleted posts. In their absence, the impression I get is that a rigid person who has a fixed agenda and is not open to well intended advice, has reacted unpleasantly and been banned for not having the good sense to appreciate our potentially helpful suggestions. This makes me sad, since I have spent my whole life trying to figure out how to get a useful message across to sometimes clueless people. I know there is a limit to ones patience, but I feel somehow we failed in our chance to present alternate possibilities to this admittedly difficult poster. I could be wrong of course, and I frequently am, as indeed my own experience here is that people on this forum are extremely understanding. So presumably the deleted posts are definite deal breakers. Edited September 6, 2012 by mathwonk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I feel somehow we failed in our chance to present alternate possibilities to this admittedly difficult poster. I could be wrong of course, and I frequently am, as indeed my own experience here is that people on this forum are extremely understanding. So presumably the deleted posts are definite deal breakers. They were definite deal breakers. PM sent :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennynd Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I wish I could have read the deleted posts. In their absence, the impression I get is that a rigid person who has a fixed agenda and is not open to well intended advice, has reacted unpleasantly and been banned for not having the good sense to appreciate our potentially helpful suggestions. This makes me sad, since I have spent my whole life trying to figure out how to get a useful message across to sometimes clueless people. I know there is a limit to ones patience, but I feel somehow we failed in our chance to present alternate possibilities to this admittedly difficult poster. I could be wrong of course, and I frequently am, as indeed my own experience here is that people on this forum are extremely understanding. So presumably the deleted posts are definite deal breakers. She got .. Let's say.. A bit pissed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 ... This makes me sad, since I have spent my whole life trying to figure out how to get a useful message across to sometimes clueless people. .... off-topic: do you have favorite strategies, or sources of inspiration, or words of advice, or warnings for the unwary, or anything along those lines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I wish I could have read the deleted posts. In their absence, the impression I get is that a rigid person who has a fixed agenda and is not open to well intended advice, has reacted unpleasantly and been banned for not having the good sense to appreciate our potentially helpful suggestions. This makes me sad, since I have spent my whole life trying to figure out how to get a useful message across to sometimes clueless people. I know there is a limit to ones patience, but I feel somehow we failed in our chance to present alternate possibilities to this admittedly difficult poster. I could be wrong of course, and I frequently am, as indeed my own experience here is that people on this forum are extremely understanding. So presumably the deleted posts are definite deal breakers. Sadly, some people really just have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mukmuk Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I haven't read every single post here but have a vague idea. Its morphed into something very heartwarming and inspiring. And oh Kiana, the visualisation is hysterical! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathwonk Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 off-topic: do you have favorite strategies, or sources of inspiration, or words of advice, or warnings for the unwary, or anything along those lines? I have thought for a day what to suggest as an instructional strategy, and have at last recalled the advice of Proverbs that it is patience. This is ironic for me to mention since my colleagues have remarked that I lack this quality more than anyone else. But I do appreciate it when it is shown to me, as has happened so often here, and I give thanks for that. Of course some cases strain even the patience of saints, as apparently happened in this case.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NittanyJen Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 :iagree: In addition: *Medical schools require certain courses (usually at least 8 credits of college chemistry with labs, 8 credits of college biology with labs, 8 credits of organic chemistry with labs, 8 credits of physics with labs, 4-8 credits of calculus, and psychology) and usually they want these to actually be done on a college campus and ideally at the main matriculation campus. We've been navigating around this with our daughter (who will not be graduating from high school until she is 17) because she took (and received 5 on the AP exams) AP Biology and AP Chemistry. She is contemplating medical school in her future and was toying with taking Organic Chemistry as a co-matric class at a local university. She has opted instead to take a college genetics course instead so she can take Organic wherever she ends up matriculating in Fall 2013. The genetics course also fits much better with her plan for 4 day weekends so she is psyched about that as well. *At least a few (and I think more than a few) states will not license physicians who are younger than 21 so this is another consideration I would think with your possible schedule. I also know some medical schools will not allow their students to begin clinical clerkships in the third year if they are under 21. One way around the age factor would be to work toward an MD/PhD. The things that cannot be completed until age 21 can be organized or later in the program while the PhD studies are receiving more focus. That said, I have been looking at where my kids will be academically. At least one, and potentially both, could easily "graduate" quite young, and with a very strong program under their belts. However, I have no plans for this to happen, and I o not know why it would need to. Name any subject-- math, sciences, history, literature, writing, languages-- and there is no possibility of running out of material to study before they turn 100, let alone 18. Nobody is handing out medals for being first, and childhood expires to some extent when you enter college; college is about academics, but it is also about moving out, away, and learning to navigate life. Starting early means either tossing them out of the nest too soon, or keeping them home during a time that is supposed to be about growth beyond the classroom. Professors do not just assign homework to add workload; they are training you to interact with others, learn how and when to ask new bosses (instructors, TA's, not your parents) for help, budgeting your time around activities, planning for projects and tests... High School graduation is about physical, social, and emotional maturity as much as it is about a transcript, for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embassy Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 High School graduation is about physical, social, and emotional maturity as much as it is about a transcript, for us. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMV Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 One way around the age factor would be to work toward an MD/PhD. The things that cannot be completed until age 21 can be organized or later in the program while the PhD studies are receiving more focus. That said, I have been looking at where my kids will be academically. At least one, and potentially both, could easily "graduate" quite young, and with a very strong program under their belts. However, I have no plans for this to happen, and I o not know why it would need to. Name any subject-- math, sciences, history, literature, writing, languages-- and there is no possibility of running out of material to study before they turn 100, let alone 18. Nobody is handing out medals for being first, and childhood expires to some extent when you enter college; college is about academics, but it is also about moving out, away, and learning to navigate life. Starting early means either tossing them out of the nest too soon, or keeping them home during a time that is supposed to be about growth beyond the classroom. Professors do not just assign homework to add workload; they are training you to interact with others, learn how and when to ask new bosses (instructors, TA's, not your parents) for help, budgeting your time around activities, planning for projects and tests... High School graduation is about physical, social, and emotional maturity as much as it is about a transcript, for us. :iagree: Interestingly our daughter may end up more of a medical scientist than a practicing physician so a MD/PhD may be in her future. However, it is the second half of your response that is one reason why she wasn't off to college at 14 when academically she likely could have held her own at many decent four year institutions. So we figured out how to enrich as needed and allowed her to have additional time for high level competitive soccer, music, and equestrian eventing. If she wants to play D1 soccer in college (and she thinks she does) she will likely need to make that more her focus and continuing to compete a lot in eventing will probably be on hold. I'm glad she has had the opportunity to achieve what she has in the sport over the past few years (and I'm glad she and her dad have had the opportunity to connect on an even deeper level through doing this together). She also would have missed out on having the special sibling bond with her younger sisters that has formed over these years at home and, honestly, we have enjoyed having a few more years to enjoy her on a daily basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I have thought for a day what to suggest as an instructional strategy, and have at last recalled the advice of Proverbs that it is patience. This is ironic for me to mention since my colleagues have remarked that I lack this quality more than anyone else. But I do appreciate it when it is shown to me, as has happened so often here, and I give thanks for that. Of course some cases strain even the patience of saints, as apparently happened in this case.:) patience. hmmm. not in book form; and you couldn't come up with something, say, easier??? :D thank you for your thoughts, and your wise words ... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennynd Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Chatting with Hubby earlier and find out there is a guy in his lab graduated John Hopkins at age of 18 and phD at 21.. And my hubby didn't find out more about him... Man,, I so want to chat with this guy, how he get on this path, does he enjoy working when most kis at same age still in school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Chatting with Hubby earlier and find out there is a guy in his lab graduated John Hopkins at age of 18 and phD at 21.. And my hubby didn't find out more about him... Man,, I so want to chat with this guy, how he get on this path, does he enjoy working when most kis at same age still in school? And I'd love a chat with his mom. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennynd Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 And I'd love a chat with his mom. :001_smile: Nah... Hubby had another coworker with a kid in Cornell phD at age of 17. Both parents worked with my hubby, both Russian physicist, they just complaining about school can't meet the need. Can't get much more than that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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