Down_the_Rabbit_Hole Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 What is sad is the company it use to be had merit. It had integrity and was very willing to listen to it's patrons, keeping the lines of communication open. You as a costumer felt you mattered. Not anymore, it feels like they snatch your money and don't look back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooRho Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I don't think they care. They are more concerned with what they think their mission is, and don't care if the people who don't agree with it drop away. This,And probably now they feel more justified because of the "attacks" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooRho Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 What is sad is the company it use to be had merit. It had integrity and was very willing to listen to it's patrons, keeping the lines of communication open. You as a costumer felt you mattered. Not anymore, it feels like they snatch your money and don't look back. Yes this is how I feel now. I still use bits and pieces, I still think most of it is a great program especially for the younger years. People have begged them to change some of the upper level stuff. there are still some great things in it but some of it is over kill especially for kids with other interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara in Colo Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 alright, I am on the SL forums right now and I cannot find a way to search. Can someone help me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooRho Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 alright, I am on the SL forums right now and I cannot find a way to search. Can someone help me? Did you find your core forum? Then look at the very top, I have mine colored purple background, so the box color is white on mine. for the messages. Look up in the right hand side, and there you will see a thing that looks like a magnifiying glass put the mouse on it and it will say search. type in the words you want to search. They also have advanced search and it looks like gears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara in Colo Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Oh.......you mean the space that clearly says SEARCH?? sheesh I am such a dork!!! Thank you --- who knows when I would have figured that out!! Lara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooRho Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Oh.......you mean the space that clearly says SEARCH?? sheesh I am such a dork!!! Thank you --- who knows when I would have figured that out!! Lara well mine doesn't have that huge space until you click on the magnifying glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luanne Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I loved the idea of the curriculum. I purchased a total of 4 Cores over the years, one of those years complete (science, math, LA..........) I hated: The way they handled the forums. John's pontification(s). Name one; I hated it. When they sent me a beautiful calendar depicting people of a wide variety of cultures - and then told me to pray that they all "find Jesus". Denied, Denied, Denied any responsibility for any issue ever about their company, customer service, curriculum, image. They make it very clear that they are a CHRISTIAN company and anyone associated with a CHRISTIAN company is going to want people to find Jesus. There is nothing wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenade Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Do John and the SL people KNOW what their reputation has become? Or do they just not care? Seems like I'm seeing this all over the place--I'd sure want to address it! There are many people who still like Sonlight. I am one of them. I do think a lot of ex-Sonlight people come here to bash the company. <shrug> I've never had a problem with the company, and I even like the way the forums have changed -- there's less chit-chatting about "fun" stuff, and more about school topics. I don't have hours and hours to chat about misc. stuff, so I am happy that the forums are more stream-lined. A lot of the friendship-forming conversations now happen on the Core check-in threads, rather than in Meet and Share. Meet and Share is dead, I agree. But I don't have an issue with that because I was one who powered through the fluffy threads to get to the meat, anyhow. I imagine that Sonlight is not for everyone. There are things that I don't love about the company, but I take what I can use, and find the rest elsewhere. It bugs me to no end that they don't have a high-school level Ancients Core, or indeed, a high-school level world history Core not focused on religious history. People have pointed out this omission and Sonlight chooses not to fill that need. I don't think high school is Sonlight's focus, however. They have high school cores, but the emphasis is not there. It's mostly on the younger stuff, maybe up through middle school. Many people look elsewhere for high school level stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockhopper Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I've always had above average customer service from Sonlight, even to the point of them being willing - after I had a very expensive order mistakenly shipped to my old address - to re-send the entire order if they couldn't get it picked up and re-directed. I've always been very happy with the Cores I've purchased, and I've never had a problem with the price of them because in large part the reason I use Sonlight is to buy and own the books. I've heard people complain about the price of a "glorified book list" but since I want the books and use the IG notes, it doesn't seem like a bad deal to me. And since, as a Christian, I'm intentionally buying a curriculum with the express intent of providing a Christian worldview, I'm ok with that part of it too. I don't necessarily agree with the worldview expressed in some of their secular book choices; nor do I necessarily agree with the worldview expressed in some of their Christian book choices. But since their IGs and philosophy make it abundantly clear that they expect me as the parent to discuss those books and topics in light of my own worldview and theology, I'm ok with that too. Despite the vitrolic of unhappy customers and former forum users, and despite plenty of forum kerfuffles, I haven't - over 9 years as a customer - found any substantial changes in the basic worldview expressed in the Cores, or any substantial changes in the basic approach or quality of the curriculum. The frantic emotional involvement each year as some books move in and other move out seem to always be, in the end, "sound and fury signifying nothing." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 They make it very clear that they are a CHRISTIAN company and anyone associated with a CHRISTIAN company is going to want people to find Jesus. There is nothing wrong with that. Actually, first and foremost, it's a curriculum company. People buy stuff from them expecting curriculum. Yes, they probably know that since it's a Christian company they'll get some worldview stuff from a particular brand of Christianity but they're likely not expecting to receive marketing material telling them who to pray for. Most of us go to church for that sort of thing and would prefer companies stay out of our spiritual lives, fellow Christians though they may be. Most companies don't get to instruct me on how to worship or who to pray for. My dollars don't grant them any special authority and I'm not going to grant an exception just because one company happens to label itself Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Over the years they got more and more religious. Not just religious, but "My way is correct and the only way" religious. It became not worth the trouble, and then I found WTM. I received an email from Sonlight about supporting a mission to rescue Hindus from their 'spiritual slavery'. That was the end for me. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 They make it very clear that they are a CHRISTIAN company and anyone associated with a CHRISTIAN company is going to want people to find Jesus. There is nothing wrong with that. You can encourage people to be Christians without insulting people of other faiths. Sarita's email that I received talked about Hindus being in 'spiritual slavery' and 'bondage', and feeling no joy. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 They make it very clear that they are a CHRISTIAN company and anyone associated with a CHRISTIAN company is going to want people to find Jesus. There is nothing wrong with that. The calendar issue was a twisted insult to the cultures. I was a Christian when I ordered from SL and when I used the curriculum. (There is more than one way to be a Christian - although it is typically evangelistic, conservative types who script and limit that reality) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Actually, first and foremost, it's a curriculum company. People buy stuff from them expecting curriculum. Yes, they probably know that since it's a Christian company they'll get some worldview stuff from a particular brand of Christianity but they're likely not expecting to receive marketing material telling them who to pray for. Most of us go to church for that sort of thing and would prefer companies stay out of our spiritual lives, fellow Christians though they may be. Most companies don't get to instruct me on how to worship or who to pray for. My dollars don't grant them any special authority and I'm not going to grant an exception just because one company happens to label itself Christian. I liked *the curriculum*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 When they sent me a beautiful calendar depicting people of a wide variety of cultures - and then told me to pray that they all "find Jesus". Because Christians are only white, only live in America, and are all evangelical or fundamentalists :glare: Some of the people I've found in various calendars and books teaching about cultures toss in other Christian groups (that have been around much longer) as "lost and without Christ". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merry Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Because Christians are only white, only live in America, and are all evangelical or fundamentalists :glare: Some of the people I've found in various calendars and books teaching about cultures toss in other Christian groups (that have been around much longer) as "lost and without Christ". are they considered as "lost and without Christ"? Is that what you said, seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennay Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Because Christians are only white, only live in America, and are all evangelical or fundamentalists :glare: Some of the people I've found in various calendars and books teaching about cultures toss in other Christian groups (that have been around much longer) as "lost and without Christ". Yes, this is one of the things that seriously bothers me about SL at times. A very narrow vision of Christianity and disregard or contempt for ancient expressions of the faith. They have this new Phoenix Phaxx program and what they say about Russia and the Orthodox Faith may send me over the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReader Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Do John and the SL people KNOW what their reputation has become? Or do they just not care? Seems like I'm seeing this all over the place--I'd sure want to address it! They don't care. When I left, I wrote to Judy, Customer Champion (actually, posted in Dear Sonlight looking for the appropriate email address, as none is listed as far as how to communicate directly with John or Sarita, anywhere, anymore). Dear Sonlight forwarded me to Judy. I wrote. I expressed, clearly, that I'd like this forwarded on to Sarita, John, or whoever the current "powers that be" might actually be. Judy replied. And then wrote again a month later to find out did I get her response, and was it sufficient or did it sound like yet another "sounding the party line" response. I admitted that yes, it did sound a bit like just "sounding the party line" and expounded a bit on what I'd hoped to hear. She never replied after that, nor, to my knowledge, was my email ever forwarded on to Sarita or John. Or, if it was, I never heard from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 are they considered as "lost and without Christ"? Is that what you said, seriously? No, I said that some books and calendars portray them as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Yes, this is one of the things that seriously bothers me about SL at times. A very narrow vision of Christianity and disregard or contempt for ancient expressions of the faith. They have this new Phoenix Phaxx program and what they say about Russia and the Orthodox Faith may send me over the edge. Would you pm me what they wrote about the Orthodox, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennay Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Would you pm me what they wrote about the Orthodox, please? I don't know anything more than what is stated on the link above....the program just started and I haven't had time to look into it further yet. I'll let you know what I find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I don't know anything more than what is stated on the link above....the program just started and I haven't had time to look into it further yet. I'll let you know what I find out. Didn't see a link (?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) http://phoenixphaxx.com/destination/russia Russia, known at one time as ‘Holy Russia' (and no, that is not an old Batman reference) … was known for its rich history of Orthodox Christianity and belief in God. Even in those days, their Christianity was very traditional and full of rituals and not many people actually experienced a personal relationship with Christ.:glare: Really? That is one HUGE assumption. The rest of the site has very tiny tidbits and broad brushes the entire populace. Basically, Russia consists only of Atheists and children in orphanages....but, with the side note of Christianity, the implication is that it wasn't a "real faith" in Christ.:banghead: Edited September 21, 2012 by mommaduck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 http://phoenixphaxx.com/destination/russia :glare: Really? That is one HUGE assumption. The rest of the site has very tiny tidbits and broad brushes the entire populace. Basically, Russia consists only of Atheists and children in orphanages....but, with the side note of Christianity, the implication is that it wasn't a "real faith" in Christ.:banghead: Didn't you know? Liturgical churches aren't "real" Christianity! Rituals don't allow for personal relationships with God. :glare: I'm Christian. Sonlight being Christian is not the problem. It's the implication that I'm not the right kind of Christian. I want a curriculum, not a lifestyle, and certainly not one that tries to pigeonhole me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Didn't you know? Liturgical churches aren't "real" Christianity! Rituals don't allow for personal relationships with God. :glare: I'm Christian. Sonlight being Christian is not the problem. It's the implication that I'm not the right kind of Christian. I want a curriculum, not a lifestyle, and certainly not one that tries to pigeonhole me. Yeah, I just got that treatment on FB today. "What? Mommaduck has left the faith once delivered?! How are those man's traditions working for ya?" :001_huh:Lovely, just lovely. Yep, those kinds of statements sure make me feel the love of Christ coming a person. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 It seems to me there's some judging of other cultures' faith here: http://phoenixphaxx.com/destination/russia/faith You see, it’s been a long time since church was popular – so kids may not know God exists or if they've heard of Him, they probably don't understand Him. In fact, only about ONE percent of the population of Russia know Christ personally and are following the Bible…that’s only 1.5 million people (out of 143 million people!) From the State Department: http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2007/90196.htm Approximately 100 million citizens consider themselves Russian Orthodox Christians, although the vast majority are not regular churchgoers. Fourteen to 23 million Muslims form the country's largest religious minority. The majority of Muslims live in the Volga-Urals region and the North Caucasus, although Moscow, St. Petersburg, and parts of Siberia also have sizable Muslim populations. The Buddhist Association of Russia estimated there were between 1.5 and 2 million Buddhists, who live in the traditionally Buddhist regions of Buryatiya, Tuva, and Kalmykiya. According to the Slavic Center for Law and Justice, Protestants make up the second largest group of Christian believers, with 3,500 registered organizations and more than 2 million followers. There are an estimated 600,000 Jews (0.4 percent of the population); the vast majority live in Moscow and St. Petersburg. The Catholic Church estimated that there are 600,000 Catholics, most of whom are not ethnic Russians. In some areas, such as Yakutiya and Chukotka, pantheistic and nature-based religions are practiced independently or alongside other religions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 It seems to me there's some judging of other cultures' faith here: http://phoenixphaxx.com/destination/russia/faith You see, it’s been a long time since church was popular – so kids may not know God exists or if they've heard of Him, they probably don't understand Him. In fact, only about ONE percent of the population of Russia know Christ personally and are following the Bible…that’s only 1.5 million people (out of 143 million people!) From the State Department: http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2007/90196.htm Approximately 100 million citizens consider themselves Russian Orthodox Christians, although the vast majority are not regular churchgoers. Fourteen to 23 million Muslims form the country's largest religious minority. The majority of Muslims live in the Volga-Urals region and the North Caucasus, although Moscow, St. Petersburg, and parts of Siberia also have sizable Muslim populations. The Buddhist Association of Russia estimated there were between 1.5 and 2 million Buddhists, who live in the traditionally Buddhist regions of Buryatiya, Tuva, and Kalmykiya. According to the Slavic Center for Law and Justice, Protestants make up the second largest group of Christian believers, with 3,500 registered organizations and more than 2 million followers. There are an estimated 600,000 Jews (0.4 percent of the population); the vast majority live in Moscow and St. Petersburg. The Catholic Church estimated that there are 600,000 Catholics, most of whom are not ethnic Russians. In some areas, such as Yakutiya and Chukotka, pantheistic and nature-based religions are practiced independently or alongside other religions. I would like to know how they define "regular church goers"...then toss in all the other things that have to do with our faith other than just showing up in a building and all the extreme circumstances that many people are dealing with. Attending church so many times a week does not make one a christian anymore than being a garage makes one a car. By the same token, not being in a church building does not make one less of a christian just as a car is still a car even when it's not in a garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Well I am in the forums and I have access for one year. What is the "good" info and where should I look? The format is different from here so I'm not sure how to do a search. Should look for older threads?? I don't want the party line, I want real advice (should I need it, I seem to be trudging along pretty well). The only things I really like to check out is the individual board for whatever core I happen to be doing. Sometimes there are good tips for hands-on activities, dvds, books that have sensitive content and books that nobody likes (and what they replace them with). I find that kind of info helpful and maybe spend an hour a year looking at that stuff. Other than that, I'm not drawn over there like I am here. I tend to ignore the company and it's policies and just enjoy the curriculum. Most years, I buy it used anyway. I think if I looked too deeply into most of the companies I patronize, I would find much I do not like. My father won't use Amazon because of some policies he dislikes. For me, that would be cutting off my nose to spite my face. I guess people get more riled up about SL because they are so vocal on their boards. If they shut those down, I suspect their whole image would improve immensely. Lisa Edited September 21, 2012 by LisaTheresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennay Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Didn't see a link (?) I had meant to put the link in but must have forgot. But I see you found it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooRho Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 They don't care. When I left, I wrote to Judy, Customer Champion (actually, posted in Dear Sonlight looking for the appropriate email address, as none is listed as far as how to communicate directly with John or Sarita, anywhere, anymore). Dear Sonlight forwarded me to Judy. I wrote. I expressed, clearly, that I'd like this forwarded on to Sarita, John, or whoever the current "powers that be" might actually be. Judy replied. And then wrote again a month later to find out did I get her response, and was it sufficient or did it sound like yet another "sounding the party line" response. I admitted that yes, it did sound a bit like just "sounding the party line" and expounded a bit on what I'd hoped to hear. She never replied after that, nor, to my knowledge, was my email ever forwarded on to Sarita or John. Or, if it was, I never heard from them. Wow that really should be shocking but not. It is like they just have canned responses for stuff now a days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS MommaBear Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 You should be able to print off your purchase history from your online account under archived purchases. I just looked mine up and it shows all my purchases back to my first in 2007 and shows my last in 2012. I am about to order again now in 2023. It shows me as Heirloom but my discount is not coming up in my cart, so I lan to call to make the order. I will be printing my order history first, so I can just read the purchase dates off to them for each core purchased. The 10% off and free shipping for lifetime was what got me. I ordered book gifts for nieces and nephews from there for years, shipped right to them in other states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malam Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 Old thread 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutTN Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 Zombie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodnightMoogle Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 I know this thread is 1000 years old but it made me wish I could go back and look at all the old Sonlight book selections over the years. I’d love to see their original selections and how they’ve changed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nm. Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 On 5/18/2023 at 10:29 AM, GoodnightMoogle said: I know this thread is 1000 years old but it made me wish I could go back and look at all the old Sonlight book selections over the years. I’d love to see their original selections and how they’ve changed. There are lists of retired books. I remembered coming across it before. Here’s one: Former sonlight texts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodnightMoogle Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Nm. said: There are lists of retired books. I remembered coming across it before. Here’s one: Former sonlight texts Thank you for finding this!! Wow, I must say I prefer many older choices when it comes to literature. Maybe I’m just being a fuddy duddy though. I’m unfamiliar with a lot of their newer titles these days so I should probably give them a chance before I judge. The hopeful part of me wonders if they are trying to keep up with the very best lit that the current times have to offer. The cynical part of me wonders if they are changing out the books and guides so people can’t reuse cores and must continuously buy new from them for their children. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 I still have my catalogue from 15 years ago, and I'm not even religious. I've kept very few things from those years, but that catalogue reminds me of all those hours contemplating what a great education looks like. So much thinking, planning, dreaming. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nm. Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 I prefer their old ones too. I’m not sure why they update each year. You can definitely reuse old cores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 On 5/18/2023 at 7:29 AM, GoodnightMoogle said: ...wish I could go back and look at all the old Sonlight book selections over the years. I’d love to see their original selections and how they’ve changed. Here's an even older list, of SL books from 2007 and older:Sonlight Books Arranged by the Well-Trained Mind 4-Year Cycles 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 6 hours ago, Nm. said: I prefer their old ones too. I’m not sure why they update each year... Books go out of print and are not easily available, which means they need to be removed from a SL core. Also, new books come out that may be a better fit for the grade/age of a SL core. (And, from a sales perspective, revised new product makes older product obsolete, so customers will re-buy. 😉 ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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