Interesting changes in body since becoming vegan

[radiobrain]

LOL, not to get on your case.... but it is also like an e-schooler saying they're a homeschooler. Yes, they are some what similar, in certain ways... but if you get into the details you see the giant difference.

 

I can see where a vegan would be irritated with people who claim to be vegan when they are really trying to be mostly vegetarian. Maybe someday you will be, but until you eat no animal product at all, you're just not.

 

I am an omvinore with carnivorous tendencies. ;)

 

Anyway, I am glad you are doing well, and all... but back to your TMI/cycle issue.... anorexics and people who are really athletic lose/shorten their periods too. I generally don't think it is a good thing, but if it is easing some pain and isn't a drastic change...then good for you.

 

HEaring that some vegans only have a day of spotting makes my eyes bug out. That is not natural. That would make me afraid for someone's health.

 

Also, I have a 1 day period, 2 max, very light....always been that way. That is my norm. People have different cycles. Being a vegan, having an eating disorder, excercising like crazy, are not a part of it at all. :D

[Denisemomof4]

And thank you to my MOSTLY sweet but sometimes obnoxious boardie friend who called me chuckling over........ Well.... just chuckling.:D

[shann]

I know that you don't want to hear it but I think it's rude for you not to even consider the fact that words HAVE definitions. The words vegan and vegetarian mean something to people and you can't just throw them around because it's trendy.

 

Vegan especially is an extremely difficult diet to maintain and many vegans have very deep heartfelt beliefs about not eating living things or anything that came from an animal. It is a massively restricted diet without even food additives that originate with animals and are hidden in MANY foods. You can't just say "well I do care about animals but I ate a hamburger!! :svengo: But I'm still mostly a vegan".

It's insulting to the beliefs of vegans and all that they go through to live according to their beliefs.

 

I'm not a vegan, only a vegetarian. My husband and I encounter the faux vegetarian ALL the time and it actually doesn't normally bother me, I just laugh and shake my head.(It bothers him a lot, I guess on my behalf because he eats meat lol.) So I don't normally rant at people about it but the fact that you refuse to acknowledge the difference and see no reason not to call yourself something that you clearly are not, and your response to others who have objected, is just irritating.

 

 

Honestly WORDS MEAN THINGS :banghead:

[Impish]

And thank you to my MOSTLY sweet but sometimes obnoxious boardie friend who called me chuckling over........ Well.... just chuckling.:D

No idea who you may be referring to.

 

la la la la la...

 

:auto:

[Denisemomof4]

No idea who you may be referring to.

 

la la la la la...

 

:auto:

 

:lol::lol:

[mommymilkies]

I think people are getting way too worked off over something she wishes to call herself. Seriously. My dd is referred to as a vegetarian by most people. She's technically pescetarian. But you know what? I don't care. And I can guarantee you 99% of most other people don't, either. Let her be happy with how she's eating. Beating people up over a title they call themselves when they are trying is the best way to get yourself a bad rap for being militant. People like that are the reason I stopped calling myself a vegetarian even when I was one.

[lauranc]

:iagree:

 

A vegan doesn't consume animal products ever. It doesn't matter what your reasons are for consuming LESS meat, you still aren't a vegan.

 

You can't co-opt a term that doesn't actually apply to you.

 

I doubt I'd even call you a vegetarian. There is no mostly vegan. You are or you aren't.

 

:iagree: Yeah.. sorry OP-- you're not a vegan, not a vegetarian either. Agreeing also about words-- they have meanings, and it can be a bit confusing when someone posts about being vegan and then says she eats a lot of eggs and fish and has had a few burgers and chicken in the last 5 or 6 months.

 

The post was a little confusing to me, as a vegetarian-- but hey... it does sound like the OP is trying to eat a more healthy diet, so that's good. :001_smile:

Edited June 12, 2012 by lauranc

[ChristyB in TN]

Vegan especially is an extremely difficult diet to maintain and many vegans have very deep heartfelt beliefs about not eating living things or anything that came from an animal. It is a massively restricted diet without even food additives that originate with animals and are hidden in MANY foods. You can't just say "well I do care about animals but I ate a hamburger!! :svengo: But I'm still mostly a vegan".

It's insulting to the beliefs of vegans and all that they go through to live according to their beliefs.

 

I'm not a vegan, only a vegetarian. My husband and I encounter the faux vegetarian ALL the time and it actually doesn't normally bother me, I just laugh and shake my head.(It bothers him a lot, I guess on my behalf because he eats meat lol.) So I don't normally rant at people about it but the fact that you refuse to acknowledge the difference and see no reason not to call yourself something that you clearly are not, and your response to others who have objected, is just irritating.

 

 

Honestly WORDS MEAN THINGS :banghead:

 

okay, I have questions. I was vegan for a year. Then I was just dairy, beef, pork and poultry free. Then I guess I was flexitarian, then I was vegan, again, still am, I suppose... What else am I eating that doesn't fit? I avoid honey, eggs, meat, fish, dairy, and shellac or bakers glaze or whatever that is. Am I omitting anything?

[shann]

I don't think it is militant to ask someone to consider the fact that words have meaning to other people.

I could call myself a Christian. I believe in most of the values of christianity and hey, I only worship the devil every 3rd friday.

 

You many think I'm being ridiculous, and maybe I am :lol:

But think in terms of word definitions. Worshipping the devil is the exact opposite of what it means to be a christian in the same way that eating hamburger is the opposite of being a vegan

[Denisemomof4]

I think people are getting way too worked off over something she wishes to call herself. Seriously. My dd is referred to as a vegetarian by most people. She's technically pescetarian. But you know what? I don't care. And I can guarantee you 99% of most other people don't, either. Let her be happy with how she's eating. Beating people up over a title they call themselves when they are trying is the best way to get yourself a bad rap for being militant. People like that are the reason I stopped calling myself a vegetarian even when I was one.

 

:hurray::hurray::hurray:

 

I have learned some new titles in this thread (flexatarian and now pescetarian) but the THREAD title should have stated MOSTLY vegan, because that is what I am. My simple error of omitting MOSTLY in the title is something I wish I could go back and correct!

 

I won't be changing what I claim to be. I never claimed to be vegan, I claimed mostly vegan and I will stand by that because that is what I eat. I think it is ridiculous that this causes such an uproar. I am not even reading those posts.

 

Thank you for posting this!!!

[shann]

okay, I have questions. I was vegan for a year. Then I was just dairy, beef, pork and poultry free. Then I guess I was flexitarian, then I was vegan, again, still am, I suppose... What else am I eating that doesn't fit? I avoid honey, eggs, meat, fish, dairy, and shellac or bakers glaze or whatever that is. Am I omitting anything?

 

I don't even know, this is why I am not a vegan lol.

As a vegetarian, I do know they hide beef fat in a lot of foods. I can't eat anything from hostess (like twinkies) because they have beef fat in them. That's probably mostly in bread like products which a vegan wouldn't eat anyway. Same with rennet in cheese. Also gelatin can come from animals but I don't know if they do that any more

 

Hidden animal byproducts might be trickier for a vegetarians because vegan have already eliminated most packaged food

[ChristyB in TN]

Hidden animal byproducts might be trickier for a vegetarians because vegan have already eliminated most packaged food

 

I agree. Gelatin is not an issue because if you care enough about your health to get rid of dairy, you probably don't want jello, either. :tongue_smilie:

[acurtis75]

Is that the definition of a flexatarion? Meat and dairy less than 10%? Because I do fat less than 10% and only had dairy once in six months.

 

Can you tell me about Forks over Knives? I wanted to go to a showing of it but couldn't find a date which worked.

 

You will love your new way of eating once you have adjusted! I allow very, very few processed vegan items in my diet, and I strictly limot soy.

 

I will check out that blog. Thanks for sharing!!!

 

I watched it on Netflix. I hadn't heard of it but it showed up under "you might also like" after we watched Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead. It was very informative and they promote either a vegan or vegetarian lifestyle. In the movie they show studies indicating that there is a drastic increase in cancer and heart disease risk if you consume more than 5 to 10 percent of calories from animal products. One thing that is cool about the movie is that there are lots of resources on the website for cookbooks and things to help you transition. I have been reading The Complete Idiot's Guide to Plant based Nutrition by Julieanna Hever. It's informative and helpful but a bit dry. Actually it is like a magic sleeping pill for me. I've been know to fall asleep on some nights before finishing 1 page:001_huh: I'm big on finishing books I pay for so as soon as I finish this one I'll check out some of the others.

 

I think there's a post on the 100 days of real food blog about the actual definition of a flexitarian. It's been a while since I read it but I remember thinking it sounded like what we are trying to do. I really like most of the recipes I've tried on the real food blog even though they aren't all vegan. The crock pot whole chicken turned out great and the zucchini bread was a huge hit with dd.

[shann]

I agree. Gelatin is not an issue because if you care enough about your health to get rid of dairy, you probably don't want jello, either. :tongue_smilie:

 

Lol! I do admit to being a little sad when I found out twinkies where contaminated (back when I was a teenager) Just as well though :lol:

It can be incredibly frustrating as a vegetarian, I can't imagine having the additional restrictions of a vegan. Just trying to eat at a restaurant, my choices are salad, requested without the chicken, or some crappy mushroom concoction. Why do they think vegetarians love mushrooms so much?!

 

If you want something on the go, forget it. 99.9% of the time there is literately not-a-single-thing that is edible

In the end it's good because you have no temptation for fast or packaged food and the rest of the family doesn't eat it either but it's still annoying. Try to find canned soup with no chicken in it, impossible!

[acurtis75]

I don't even know, this is why I am not a vegan lol.

As a vegetarian, I do know they hide beef fat in a lot of foods. I can't eat anything from hostess (like twinkies) because they have beef fat in them. That's probably mostly in bread like products which a vegan wouldn't eat anyway. Same with rennet in cheese. Also gelatin can come from animals but I don't know if they do that any more

 

Hidden animal byproducts might be trickier for a vegetarians because vegan have already eliminated most packaged food

 

 

All the byproducts and hidden stuff in food is why I really like the 100 days of real food blog I mentioned previously in this thread. Less processed food means more control over what you are eating. I suspect that MSG and food dyes are giving dd headaches and is it AMAZiNG how many products contain those ingredients. I have long been a reluctant meal planner and cook but it's getting to the point where I am leaning toward just cooking everything. I even considered buying a bread maker the other day. If you knew me 10 years ago that would have made you :lol:

 

I read something recently that suggested the term plan-based and defining your diet by what you do eat rather than what you avoid being a healthier option for some. Being a vegetarian who eats a lot of processed stuff isn't necessarily a healthy option.

[shann]

All the byproducts and hidden stuff in food is why I really like the 100 days of real food blog I mentioned previously in this thread. Less processed food means more control over what you are eating. I suspect that MSG and food dyes are giving dd headaches and is it AMAZiNG how many products contain those ingredients. I have long been a reluctant meal planner and cook but it's getting to the point where I am leaning toward just cooking everything. I even considered buying a bread maker the other day. If you knew me 10 years ago that would have made you :lol:

 

I read something recently that suggested the term plan-based and defining your diet by what you do eat rather than what you avoid being a healthier option for some. Being a vegetarian who eats a lot of processed stuff isn't necessarily a healthy option.

 

I will have to check out that blog

I don't eat a lot of processed food. About the only packaged food edible by a vegetarian is the Quorn soy products, which I do eat even though they have more sodium than I would like, and rice that comes with a seasoning package, and that's just because I can never get enough seasoning in my own rice lol. Maybe I will find a rice recipe on that blog you mention ;) Oh and I do allow myself Twizzlers when I want a sweet, obviously terrible for you but I'm no martyr lol

[Amber in SJ]

My dd met a girl in one of her classes in college (so adult age) who considers herself vegetarian.

 

She doesn't eat meat that looks like it came from an animal. For example; meatloaf is OK, because it doesn't look like an animal at all, but fried chicken legs are a no go. When dd thought she could speak without giggling she said;

 

"I do not think that word means what you think it does."

 

Amber in SJ

[6packofun]

I always wonder why so many vegans, if they're opposed to eating meat for moral reasons, are always on the lookout for the perfect veggie burger. I mean, they think it's cruel to be eating ground animal meat, but they have no problem loving the flavor and trying to make something else in nature imitate it? LOL

 

I just keep picturing a reformed cannibal trying a chicken leg, then throwing his head back with satisfaction and saying, "YES! Tastes like human!!"

 

:lol: All in fun here! (I could really care less about the titles people want to give themselves. lol)

[ChristyB in TN]

All the byproducts and hidden stuff in food is why I really like the 100 days of real food blog I mentioned previously in this thread. Less processed food means more control over what you are eating. I suspect that MSG and food dyes are giving dd headaches and is it AMAZiNG how many products contain those ingredients. I have long been a reluctant meal planner and cook but it's getting to the point where I am leaning toward just cooking everything. I even considered buying a bread maker the other day. If you knew me 10 years ago that would have made you :lol:

 

I read something recently that suggested the term plan-based and defining your diet by what you do eat rather than what you avoid being a healthier option for some. Being a vegetarian who eats a lot of processed stuff isn't necessarily a healthy option.

I will check it out! Thx!

[Element]

[

I think people are getting way too worked off over something she wishes to call herself. Seriously. My dd is referred to as a vegetarian by most people. She's technically pescetarian. But you know what? I don't care. And I can guarantee you 99% of most other people don't, either. Let her be happy with how she's eating. Beating people up over a title they call themselves when they are trying is the best way to get yourself a bad rap for being militant. People like that are the reason I stopped calling myself a vegetarian even when I was one.

 

:iagree: (although the phrase "mostly vegan" did make me think of my high school composition teacher angrily bemoaning the class: "Stop using phrases like 'mostly unique' and 'totally unique!' Unique means 'one of a kind.' It can't be 'one of a kind' to some extent! Either what you are writing about is one of a kind or it isn't!" :lol: )

 

I've always thought Pescatarian was the coolest Food Title, anyways :D

 

Hey, I never knew that what I was had a name until today. Thank you! I called myself an ovo-lacto-pica vegetarian for a while, but that got annoying so now I don't bother calling myself anything. I'm grossed out by most meat so I try not to touch it/cook it/eat it, but I can't resist a good spinach quiche or grilled fish if someone else does the cooking. :tongue_smilie:

 

OP, I'm really glad you feel better and are happier because of the changes you made in your diet. :)

[ChristyB in TN]

I always wonder why so many vegans, if they're opposed to eating meat for moral reasons, are always on the lookout for the perfect veggie burger. I mean, they think it's cruel to be eating ground animal meat, but they have no problem loving the flavor and trying to make something else in nature imitate it? LOL

 

I just keep picturing a reformed cannibal trying a chicken leg, then throwing his head back with satisfaction and saying, "YES! Tastes like human!!"

 

:lol: All in fun here! (I could really care less about the titles people want to give themselves. lol)

 

Well, they don't really taste like meat. Meat substitutions are gross. It is just something to eat.

[thefragile7393]

I always wonder why so many vegans, if they're opposed to eating meat for moral reasons, are always on the lookout for the perfect veggie burger. I mean, they think it's cruel to be eating ground animal meat, but they have no problem loving the flavor and trying to make something else in nature imitate it? LOL

 

I just keep picturing a reformed cannibal trying a chicken leg, then throwing his head back with satisfaction and saying, "YES! Tastes like human!!"

 

:lol: All in fun here! (I could really care less about the titles people want to give themselves. lol)

:lol:

[HappyLady]

I always wonder why so many vegans, if they're opposed to eating meat for moral reasons, are always on the lookout for the perfect veggie burger. I mean, they think it's cruel to be eating ground animal meat, but they have no problem loving the flavor and trying to make something else in nature imitate it? LOL

 

I just keep picturing a reformed cannibal trying a chicken leg, then throwing his head back with satisfaction and saying, "YES! Tastes like human!!"

 

:lol: All in fun here! (I could really care less about the titles people want to give themselves. lol)

 

What's wrong with loving a *flavor*? :lol: Most vegans grew up eating meat and when you transition you want your "comfort" foods. Most vegans/vegetarians that I know start out by eating the faux meats, but then move away from them. I know I lived on them when I first went vegetarian because it made it easier for me. Now, I don't eat them at all (maybe twice a year, if that) because I don't desire those tastes anymore. Just because someone is veg doesn't mean their tastes have necessarily changed, just their morals and ethics.

[shann]

I always wonder why so many vegans, if they're opposed to eating meat for moral reasons, are always on the lookout for the perfect veggie burger. I mean, they think it's cruel to be eating ground animal meat, but they have no problem loving the flavor and trying to make something else in nature imitate it? LOL

 

I just keep picturing a reformed cannibal trying a chicken leg, then throwing his head back with satisfaction and saying, "YES! Tastes like human!!"

 

:lol: All in fun here! (I could really care less about the titles people want to give themselves. lol)

 

I eat veggie burgers because they taste nothing like hamburgers, same with the soy ground "meat" actually. It's in the shape of grounds but has no flavor of meat. Not to be gross, but hamburger and other beef has a distinct flavor of blood which the soy obviously does not. Now the soy sausage patties, I will not eat because the seasoning is similar to sausage and it grosses me out! I'm with you in that I don't know how veggies eat meaty seasoned things, my dad will but he didn't become a veggie until he was about 40 (and he gave me SO much crap about it when I did at 15. I still :confused: about that lol)

[Denisemomof4]

I watched it on Netflix. I hadn't heard of it but it showed up under "you might also like" after we watched Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead. It was very informative and they promote either a vegan or vegetarian lifestyle. In the movie they show studies indicating that there is a drastic increase in cancer and heart disease risk if you consume more than 5 to 10 percent of calories from animal products. One thing that is cool about the movie is that there are lots of resources on the website for cookbooks and things to help you transition. I have been reading The Complete Idiot's Guide to Plant based Nutrition by Julieanna Hever. It's informative and helpful but a bit dry. Actually it is like a magic sleeping pill for me. I've been know to fall asleep on some nights before finishing 1 page:001_huh: I'm big on finishing books I pay for so as soon as I finish this one I'll check out some of the others.

 

I think there's a post on the 100 days of real food blog about the actual definition of a flexitarian. It's been a while since I read it but I remember thinking it sounded like what we are trying to do. I really like most of the recipes I've tried on the real food blog even though they aren't all vegan. The crock pot whole chicken turned out great and the zucchini bread was a huge hit with dd.

 

Thanks for sharing this! Since I have issues with insomnia, maybe I need to get that book.;)

[Forget-Me-Not]

Well, they don't really taste like meat. Meat substitutions are gross.

 

I know that's certainly been true of the ones I've tried. Which isn't much, since I eat meat, LOL.

 

I've always been curious about that as well . . . why go to all the trouble to avoid meat and then eat fake meat? I don't intend that with snark or disrespect; just something I've been genuinely curious about. I have an SDA friend who is vegan and she goes through vegan lunch meat like crazy.

[Julie Smith]

Lol! I do admit to being a little sad when I found out twinkies where contaminated (back when I was a teenager) Just as well though :lol:

It can be incredibly frustrating as a vegetarian, I can't imagine having the additional restrictions of a vegan. Just trying to eat at a restaurant, my choices are salad, requested without the chicken, or some crappy mushroom concoction. Why do they think vegetarians love mushrooms so much?!

 

If you want something on the go, forget it. 99.9% of the time there is literately not-a-single-thing that is edible

In the end it's good because you have no temptation for fast or packaged food and the rest of the family doesn't eat it either but it's still annoying. Try to find canned soup with no chicken in it, impossible!

 

I find things are so much better then 15 years ago. So with that in mind I'm actually quite happy. Perhaps I have low standards. :)

 

I don't even know, this is why I am not a vegan lol.

As a vegetarian, I do know they hide beef fat in a lot of foods. I can't eat anything from hostess (like twinkies) because they have beef fat in them. That's probably mostly in bread like products which a vegan wouldn't eat anyway. Same with rennet in cheese. Also gelatin can come from animals but I don't know if they do that any more

 

Hidden animal byproducts might be trickier for a vegetarians because vegan have already eliminated most packaged food

 

I suppose once you get use to it, it stops being much of a problem. I went vegetarian in highschool and got to learn the labels. Campbells makes a few vegetarian soup options which is very nice.

 

I know that's certainly been true of the ones I've tried. Which isn't much, since I eat meat, LOL.

 

I've always been curious about that as well . . . why go to all the trouble to avoid meat and then eat fake meat? I don't intend that with snark or disrespect; just something I've been genuinely curious about. I have an SDA friend who is vegan and she goes through vegan lunch meat like crazy.

 

I admit I go for the imitation meat products. Mostly because it's easy. I can just stick a few slices of fake meat on a sandwich or fry up some soya dogs with breakfast (instead of sausages).

 

Fake meat also makes the transition to vegetarian easier.

 

I personally may like fake meat stuff, but I also turn things down if they taste the way I think meat would taste. (Hay it's been 15 years, I can't remember what it really tastes like.)

[acurtis75]

Oh and I do allow myself Twizzlers when I want a sweet, obviously terrible for you but I'm no martyr lol

 

This made me:lol: I love twizzlers. I picked up a package the other day. Since I'm trying to cut processed foods I dutifully read the ingredients and then proceeded to take them home and eat the whole package...red dye and all:tongue_smilie:

[acurtis75]

Thanks for sharing this! Since I have issues with insomnia, maybe I need to get that book.;)

 

 

I am not exaggerating when I say it might cure you. I can read it sitting straight up in broad daylight while drinking coffee and still fall asleep.

[acurtis75]

I know that's certainly been true of the ones I've tried. Which isn't much, since I eat meat, LOL.

 

I've always been curious about that as well . . . why go to all the trouble to avoid meat and then eat fake meat? I don't intend that with snark or disrespect; just something I've been genuinely curious about. I have an SDA friend who is vegan and she goes through vegan lunch meat like crazy.

 

 

That was one of the points made in the plant based book I referred to earlier. Creating a diet based on what you don't eat vs. eating a variety of healthy plant based foods leads to seeking out meat substitutes that are often highly processed and unhealthy.

 

Just to be clear...the real food blog I referenced is not vegan or vegetarian. The author calls herself a flexitarian. It is about cutting out processed foods.

[Greta]

Denise, congratulations on finding a diet that works for you both physically and emotionally! As someone who has searched high and low and tried many different diets over the years, I know what a challenge that can be. And victory is sweet. :)

 

I hope that you won't mind me mentioning, for the sake of any others out there who might be more like me in this way, that I had the opposite experience. My cycles, like the rest of my health, are far better on a low-carb diet of meat, dairy, veggies, nuts, and fruit, than they were during my years of vegetarianism and other high-carb diets that were based on grains and legumes. I think that an ancestral, paleo, or primal type diet is the healthiest by far of any of the many diets I've experimented with (though I personally find that I can tolerate more dairy than most of these diets recommend -- I must have herders in my ancestry. :D I think that my yogurt - full fat and no sugar of course - is one of the most beneficial foods that I eat.)

 

Wishing everyone well on their quest for good health,

Greta

[Greta]

3. It gives people who think vegans are ridiculous hypocrites something to point to as evidence. ("I know this woman who calls herself a vegan, but she's eating eggs and meat every time I see her!")

 

If it's any comfort at all, please know that vegans aren't the only ones who suffer from such misunderstandings. I've actually had someone explain to me that he was on Atkins while he was scarfing down a milkshake! :lol:

Edited June 12, 2012 by GretaLynne

[Sevilla]

I watched it on Netflix. I hadn't heard of it but it showed up under "you might also like" after we watched Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead. It was very informative and they promote either a vegan or vegetarian lifestyle.

I've also watched Forks Over Knives and thought there was some good stuff in there - especially the big emphasis on how diabetes/heart disease can be healed through diet changes long-term and the huge importance of eating REAL foods. The personal stories of people who turned their lives around was truly inspirational (I found the documentary dragged in the second half, the first half was better IMO).

 

In the movie they show studies indicating that there is a drastic increase in cancer and heart disease risk if you consume more than 5 to 10 percent of calories from animal products. One thing that is cool about the movie is that there are lots of resources on the website for cookbooks and things to help you transition.

I have a question about the bolded quote though - this stat on the probelm with animal protein was actually just about consuming CASEIN (milk protein). It comes from T. Colin Cambell's China Study (that was prominently featured in FoK) and one thing that surprised me in the documentary was that they didn't substantiate very well the problems with other forms of animal proteins in correlation with different diseases.

 

It seemed like a serious omission as dairy protein (casein) is not the same protein as other forms of animal protein, and I was shocked that the documentary made the leap from 'heart disease-cancer correlation with increased casein consumption' to 'THEREFORE ALL ANIMAL PROTEIN CAUSES CANCER' (especially b/c someone who is allergic/intolerant of casein can still eat beef without immediate ill effects b/c the meat protein is not casein, and they can also eat eggs b/c eggs don't contain casein). I was truly confused as to why they lumped them all together as one substance in making their case.

 

I actually think that a fairly strong argument can be made against adults consuming dairy on a regular basis, and those stats backed it up further. But what I'm wondering is if anyone has stats/studies/resources on the heart disease-cancer link when consuming animal protein from meat or eggs or fish (specifically if it's grass fed/pastured/humanely raised vs. factory-farmed-artificially-fed-junk. Wild deer meat is not the same as an artificially-fattened-on-grain-Tbone steak in its nutrient profile).

 

Since there are a lot of informed vegans/vegetarians in this thread I thought it might be the place to ask :).

Edited June 12, 2012 by Sevilla

[mommymilkies]

I know that's certainly been true of the ones I've tried. Which isn't much, since I eat meat, LOL.

 

I've always been curious about that as well . . . why go to all the trouble to avoid meat and then eat fake meat? I don't intend that with snark or disrespect; just something I've been genuinely curious about. I have an SDA friend who is vegan and she goes through vegan lunch meat like crazy.

Not everybody avoids meat because of taste. My dd avoids for ethical reasons, but likes the taste and convenience of meat. It's easy to make a Quorn burger really quickly once in awhile if we're all having burgers. And I am NOT a vegetarian but I LOVE Boca Chick'n patties. I am gluten free or I would eat them constantly. I hate breaded chicken patties made from real chicken.

[acurtis75]

I've also watched Forks Over Knives and thought there was some good stuff in there - especially the big emphasis on how diabetes/heart disease can be healed through diet changes long-term and the huge importance of eating REAL foods. The personal stories of people who turned their lives around was truly inspirational (I found the documentary dragged in the second half, the first half was better IMO).

 

 

I have a question about the bolded quote though - this stat on the probelm with animal protein was actually just about consuming CASEIN (milk protein). It comes from T. Colin Cambell's China Study (that was prominently featured in FoK) and one thing that surprised me in the documentary was that they didn't substantiate very well the problems with other forms of animal proteins in correlation with different diseases.

 

It seemed like a serious omission as dairy protein (casein) is not the same protein as other forms of animal protein, and I was shocked that the documentary made the leap from 'heart disease-cancer correlation with increased casein consumption' to 'THEREFORE ALL ANIMAL PROTEIN CAUSES CANCER' (especially b/c someone who is allergic/intolerant of casein can still eat beef without immediate ill effects b/c the meat protein is not casein, and they can also eat eggs b/c eggs don't contain casein). I was truly confused as to why they lumped them all together as one substance in making their case.

 

I actually think that a fairly strong argument can be made against adults consuming dairy on a regular basis, and those stats backed it up further. But what I'm wondering is if anyone has stats/studies/resources on the heart disease-cancer link when consuming animal protein from meat or eggs or fish (specifically if it's grass fed/pastured/humanely raised vs. factory-farmed-artificially-fed-junk. Wild deer meat is not the same as an artificially-fattened-on-grain-Tbone steak in its nutrient profile).

 

Since there are a lot of informed vegans/vegetarians in this thread I thought it might be the place to ask :).

 

I am not an expert on anything but my somewhat hazy memory of the documentary is that the study included diary and meat and the stats on the study with rats was where they came to the 5 -10 percent conclusion because they were able to basically turn the cancer occurrences up and down based on the amount of animal protein consumed. I didn't go read the whole study so I'm not positive about the details. I remember something about Norway or Denmark and a meat shortage corresponding to lower cancer and heart disease rates but I would have to watch again to remember.

 

IMHO it isn't just the animal protein alone that is a problem. All the so called healthy foods that are low fat but full of added chemicals and twelve forms of sugar are just as bad.

 

Making changes is tough...it's still definately a work in progress at our house.

[AvasMom]

It's great that your body is feeling better, but please don't call yourself a vegan or vegetarian. Eating meat of any kind makes you NOT a vegetarian and you certainly aren't vegan (consuming no meat, dairy, or eggs...) if you are eating all of those things.

These are the kinds of things that make vegetarians crazy....because then we are told "My friend is a vegetarian and she eats fish...why don't you?" Well...because vegetarians don't eat animals!!

 

:iagree: Definitions are what they are and aren't subject to opinion. It's pretty important for clarity of communication.

[Berta]

Denise, congratulations on finding a diet that works for you both physically and emotionally! As someone who has searched high and low and tried many different diets over the years, I know what a challenge that can be. And victory is sweet. :)

 

I hope that you won't mind me mentioning, for the sake of any others out there who might be more like me in this way, that I had the opposite experience. My cycles, like the rest of my health, are far better on a low-carb diet of meat, dairy, veggies, nuts, and fruit, than they were during my years of vegetarianism and other high-carb diets that were based on grains and legumes. I think that an ancestral, paleo, or primal type diet is the healthiest by far of any of the many diets I've experimented with (though I personally find that I can tolerate more dairy than most of these diets recommend -- I must have herders in my ancestry. :D I think that my yogurt - full fat and no sugar of course - is one of the most beneficial foods that I eat.)

 

Wishing everyone well on their quest for good health,

Greta

 

 

Same here. When I cut out the carbs and sugar and went to a meat/veggies/dairy/full fat diet I lost 60 lbs, and I haven't felt this great in 20 yrs. I will never choke down a low-fat anything ever again. Bring on the BIG steak!

Edited June 12, 2012 by Berta

[GingerPoppy]

I always wonder why so many vegans, if they're opposed to eating meat for moral reasons, are always on the lookout for the perfect veggie burger. I mean, they think it's cruel to be eating ground animal meat, but they have no problem loving the flavor and trying to make something else in nature imitate it? LOL

 

I just keep picturing a reformed cannibal trying a chicken leg, then throwing his head back with satisfaction and saying, "YES! Tastes like human!!"

 

:lol: All in fun here! (I could really care less about the titles people want to give themselves. lol)

 

I'll preface my answer with this: I'm not a vegetarian. That said, I love vegetarian food and have many veg/vegan meals.

 

I'm on the lookout for the perfect veggie burger because I want a handy, healthy, summery thing--that tastes fantastic--to eat between two halves of a bun with all the yummy condiments. I don't want one that tastes like meat... many people don't enjoy that soy-based fake meat flavour at all. Personally, I'm looking for a pefect combo of mushrooms, beans, and spices that fries up into a delicious dream. And when I find it, I'll make big batches and stock my freezer.

 

I know that's certainly been true of the ones I've tried. Which isn't much, since I eat meat, LOL.

 

I've always been curious about that as well . . . why go to all the trouble to avoid meat and then eat fake meat? I don't intend that with snark or disrespect; just something I've been genuinely curious about. I have an SDA friend who is vegan and she goes through vegan lunch meat like crazy.

 

I don't enjoy fake meat, but I understand why a vegetarian might want to eat it... it tastes good, their tastebuds are used to a certain flavour, and maybe they need a good, easy hit of protein.

[Sevilla]

I am not an expert on anything but my somewhat hazy memory of the documentary is that the study included diary and meat and the stats on the study with rats was where they came to the 5 -10 percent conclusion because they were able to basically turn the cancer occurrences up and down based on the amount of animal protein consumed.

The rat study was only on casein consumption, not all animal protein.

 

I didn't go read the whole study so I'm not positive about the details. I remember something about Norway or Denmark and a meat shortage corresponding to lower cancer and heart disease rates but I would have to watch again to remember.

The Norway-during-WWII thing also struck me as bad science in the documentary b/c they didn't address what else was removed from their diets nor what was added in to replace those foods. Along with a reduction in red meat, they had a massive reduction in sugar/grains (both of which have big connections to cancer and heart disease), had a massive INCREASE in fish intake (hello omega-3 fatty acids ;)), along with an increase in foraged fruits/vegetables (super high in anti-oxidants). Scroll down halfway to see the table with Norwegian food consumption changes

 

IMHO it isn't just the animal protein alone that is a problem. All the so called healthy foods that are low fat but full of added chemicals and twelve forms of sugar are just as bad.

Oh absolutely!!! I actually think that vegan and paleo/primal people have a lot more in common than they think (specifically the importance of high quality 'real food', fresh vegetables in abundance, the evils of processed foods/sugars).

[Parrothead]

No idea who you may be referring to.

 

la la la la la...

 

:auto:

Was she calling you obnoxious, Imp?

[Greta]

Same here. When I cut out the carbs and sugar and went to a meat/veggies/dairy/full fat diet I lost 60 lbs, and I haven't felt this great in 20 yrs. I will never choke down a low-fat anything ever again. Bring on the BIG steak!

 

:cheers2: (That's low-carb beer, of course. :lol: )

[Cinder]

My dd met a girl in one of her classes in college (so adult age) who considers herself vegetarian.

 

She doesn't eat meat that looks like it came from an animal. For example; meatloaf is OK, because it doesn't look like an animal at all, but fried chicken legs are a no go. When dd thought she could speak without giggling she said;

 

"I do not think that word means what you think it does."

 

:lol: This reminds me of an incident many years ago. I was on an airline flight and there was a Loud Talker a couple rows back. During the meal service they asked if she wanted chicken or beef. She announced loudly that she'd take the chicken "because I'm a vegetarian." :blink: :huh:

[Parrothead]

:lol: This reminds me of an incident many years ago. I was on an airline flight and there was a Loud Talker a couple rows back. During the meal service they asked if she wanted chicken or beef. She announced loudly that she'd take the chicken "because I'm a vegetarian." :blink: :huh:

Oy! :001_huh:

[Samiam]

I think it bothers some of who are actually vegans because:

 

1. It devalues our choices if you use the term casually to refer to something different.

2. It confuses other people about what the word actually means.

3. It gives people who think vegans are ridiculous hypocrites something to point to as evidence. ("I know this woman who calls herself a vegan, but she's eating eggs and meat every time I see her!")

 

So, of course you have the right to call youself whatever you want. But those of us to whom it matters have the right to call you out on it, and let you know we find it insulting, too.

 

(Edit: Ah, but I see you don't really care and won't be changing your terminology or so much as responding to any of us who challenge it. So, I'll move on to other threads.)

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[gsanmb]

Just as a point of interest, I was able to take Fat, Sick, & Nearly Dead as well as Forks Over Knives out of the library (dvd format).

 

Also, to make things somewhat efficient, if you see a kosher symbol on a product in the store (a "U" with an O around it, a "K" with a circle around it, a K with a triangle around it, a K with a star around it...there are others but those are the most common) and it says D or DAIRY next to it, or M or meat next to it, it has dairy or animal products. If it does not say D or M, OR it says "pareve" then it does not have any animal anything in it, either outright or hidden in other ingredients. I can't say whether it meets the standards for 'strictly vegan' but I do know that we absolutely cannot mix dairy and meat products or byproducts so the standards for getting the kosher label are intense. (One exception: anything that might contain gelatin, which is not kosher, might have a 'fish gelatin' substitution but it will be listed on the ingredients list).

[Parrothead]

Denise, I'm glad that you found a way to eat that is working for you. Since I started lacto-ovo vegetarian diet at the beginning of Lent I'm down a few pounds and feel better in my head. No more brain fog.

 

I kept it up as well as possible (I was more flexitarian during the trip.) while we were traveling. I gained 1.8 pounds while traveling. Dh and dd on the other hand gained over 5 and 4 pounds respectively. :D They totally went back to being carnivores. Since we've been home we've gone back to a plant based lifestyle.

 

:grouphug:

[Abigail4476]

S/o of an earlier post: Are you sure that the changes in your body are a good thing? I don't know the answer; I'm just asking. I don't know if you should celebrate until you're sure it's a good thing. :001_huh:

 

On another note, I think the reason people object so strongly to the use of the term vegan is because being vegan is usually a moral choice; not simply dietary one. If someone is claiming the label, but still participating in what the vegan movement largely considers to be immoral, it is offensive. It's like claiming to be a nun but still having s3x every now and then. :tongue_smilie:

 

Other than that: Kudos on sticking to your healthier diet! :001_smile:

[Denisemomof4]

Denise, congratulations on finding a diet that works for you both physically and emotionally! As someone who has searched high and low and tried many different diets over the years, I know what a challenge that can be. And victory is sweet. :)

 

I hope that you won't mind me mentioning, for the sake of any others out there who might be more like me in this way, that I had the opposite experience. My cycles, like the rest of my health, are far better on a low-carb diet of meat, dairy, veggies, nuts, and fruit, than they were during my years of vegetarianism and other high-carb diets that were based on grains and legumes. I think that an ancestral, paleo, or primal type diet is the healthiest by far of any of the many diets I've experimented with (though I personally find that I can tolerate more dairy than most of these diets recommend -- I must have herders in my ancestry. :D I think that my yogurt - full fat and no sugar of course - is one of the most beneficial foods that I eat.)

 

Wishing everyone well on their quest for good health,

Greta

 

My results MAY be from low carb, or it can be the low carb combined with mostly no animal products combined. In the past I have done Atkins/Soutn Beach for weightloss. While I'd love to lose 30 lbs, this is not why I changed my diet. Still, i always feel better on low carb. So maybe it is a combination of the two? I'm not sure. I noticed an immediate difference when I stopped dairy and meat. I never had these results on low/no carb alone.... Which leads me to believe it is linked to the meat/dairy idea. I saw many others relating the same online when they cut out animal products.

 

I actually believe the paleo diet is what is best for humans. I just find it too difficult to eat meat now so I am enjoying my mostly vegan ststus.:001_smile:

[Impish]

Was she calling you obnoxious, Imp?

Not *completely*.

 

:lol:

[Denisemomof4]

The tags are HYSTERICAL!!!!:lol::lol::lol: