Soror Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 How do you handle this? Someone new is wanting to set up outside people to come in and do classes. Well, that is fine and good BUT out group doesn't do the best with commitment. Often when we arrange trips or events people may or may not show, are late and cancel at the very last minute. I'm not keen on putting our group out there and wasting other people's time when the group hasn't shown itself to be respectful of other's time. In the past there have been project classes or classes w/ some sort of homework the parents would sign their child up but then only attend half of the time or not have their child do the work. I'm not a big fan of putting my name out to solicit and then have our group be disrespectful, I find it hugely embarrassing. I would like more of those opportunities but with the current lack of commitment and general disorganization I find it terrifying. I would prefer to put out a good impression to the local community myself as people stereotype enough as it is. I also think people should have good manners and those things are terribly rude. One doesn't have to sign up for anything but if you do I believe you should keep your commitment unless there is a good reason otherwise, not just because you don't feel like it. It is nothing for people to be 30 min late to a timed event, seriously. On events I coordinate I also tell the person to start on time. I think if your late that is on you but I certainly don't want to waste someone's time that they have offered for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2att Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Well bringing in outside people to teach can have an advantage-IF you require those taking the classes to pay upfront for the whole semester (or however you divide up your classes). At our group the classes taught by outside teachers are generally $10 - $12 per class, and when folks who have paid over $100 per kid for a semester of classes are more likely to take the commitment seriously, at least in my experience. And even if they don't, the outside teacher has been paid regardless. ETA: I see upon re-reading that you are talking about outside people teaching for free. In that case your instincts are correct-don't do it. I suggest charging people anyway and having them pay upfront. You can refund money after the classes are through if necessary, but they will have a monetary incentive to be there in the meantime. It's too bad it works that way, but such is life. Edited May 31, 2012 by mom2att Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Geek Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I agree that charging for classes will make people be more reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang!Zoom! Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Just a thought, but...what if you did a little creative marketing with the offerings? A new, shiny type of opportunity? Maybe people have become accustomed to the venue of "co-op" classes and treat them with a certain distance and respect...and maybe, if it was put across as something a little more exclusive and vetted it might change things? You know, Membership has it's privileges and all that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaRules Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 We find that when we have free field trips, we have a good percentage that flakes out without letting anyone know. It is awful. I personally think our group should charge for all field trips and if a field trip is free, put the funds from the free field trip towards the yearly scholarship they give out...or let them go for free, and if you don't show or don't let someone know when numbers have to be in, you pay $5 per person for all other free field trips for monies to be donated to a scholarship fund. We have a co-op and I think we are going to charge a family fee this year and donate the money to the church that lets us have it there as a love offering or put it aside for a place that charges more as our co-op is a decent size. We have the late issue as well. We are not going to let people who are 15 minutes late volunteer or go to class. So if they need volunteer hours, they don't get credit for that time (we have already filled the spot since they were late). If they don't fulfill so many volunteer hours, then they can't come back next semester. When I have set up field trips, I would put the time as 15 minutes earlier than it should be. Then most everyone is on time. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Two things will help: 1--Make people pay. Do not accept any registrations without actual payment. 2--Overcommunicate. Lots of reminder emails and phone calls, all in a very cheery and chipper way. You wouldn't think folks would need this much handholding, but they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 We do a ton of reminders. We also have debated charging even for free field trips. People seem to do better at showing up when they've paid even a small amount. Payment is due in advance for paid events, and for free events, you can charge a dollar or two per person, payable in advance, and then refund the money when people actually show up. For co-op classes, those are paid in advance, and also, we generally require that you teach or assist as well (partly because we need the help). Things happen (my kids caught a stomach bug before a co-op class this past spring, so our family did not attend that day, which means someone else had to fill in in the nursery for me; the second I had an inkling that we were sick, I let the director know, so as to avoid last minute as much as possible), but it really seems that money makes the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I would tell the group what you told us. It's a legitimate concern that the group or at least the group leaders should discuss. I agree that a fee discourages no-shows. All of our co-op classes were taught by volunteers, but participants still paid a class fee that went toward materials. Any money left over after buying supplies was donated to the church where we met. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amy g. Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 For our Fall classes, you do not get a spot without giving a check post dated to July 1st for the first month's tuition. each month for the next 10 months, tuition is due on the 1st and $10 is added on the 10th of the month for each class that payment is late for. I'm sure they still have problems with people flaking out, but not as many as they would if they were less strict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Make them pay. People who flake out when the commitment was free will usually do better attending when they have invested money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yvonne Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Definitely charge for the classes. People will be more responsible about showing up, and I'm sure the instructors would appreciate it. It will also help ensure that you get people who are most interested in the class. There are some workshops here that charge $20/person up front, before the class. Then, when you attend, you get that money back at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cin Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Our co-op, which is VERY successful, requires a 50% deposit upon registration, which is at least one month before classes start (registration for fall term is in March). The balance is required on the first day of classes. Even with those requirements it is still difficult to get into certain classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflections Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Make them pay. People who flake out when the commitment was free will usually do better attending when they have invested money. :iagree::iagree: And if they balk about paying - don't offer anything at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I charge for every activity, even if it's free. It's amazing to me that even $1 per person will cause people to commit. :001_huh: I require people to pay in advance, by a deadline, and I don't give refunds unless the activity is canceled. I don't want phone calls or e-mails saying they're coming; I only want money. I used to make people pay by mail--no checks handed to me at park day or whatever; today...well, I might still do that, unless I had a PayPal account and could figure out how to use it that way, lol. If I don't have enough people by the deadline, I cancel the event (and give refunds). If people discover that they cannot make it after they've paid, they can sell their spot to someone else. On their own time, not mine. I gave people complete details in the beginning--cost, deadline, directions, drive time and parking info, duration of the event, best ages for event, younger/older children allowed, somewhere to eat lunch before/after...all sorts of stuff, in a newsletter--and that's it. Today, I might send out one e-mail reminder, but I'm not their mother. It's up to them to get their own act together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab1 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 A group I'm in had the flake thing happen. We had to write a check that will be given back when we show up! If you flake, your check is put in a scolarship fund. The venue was giving homeschoolers one last chance and the coordinator is trying to repair the bad reputation. The venue is giving us free admission and tour guides! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 A group I'm in had the flake thing happen. We had to write a check that will be given back when we show up! If you flake, your check is put in a scolarship fund. The venue was giving homeschoolers one last chance and the coordinator is trying to repair the bad reputation. The venue is giving us free admission and tour guides! :iagree: I like the idea of taking a deposit that is returned if you don't flake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily_Grace Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 One of the things I want to discuss at our first co-op meeting is the institution of a 3 strike policy. Miss 3 classes (or 20% of the semester) and your family is dropped. They're welcome back the next semester, however, if they choose to make the commitment. It wouldn't be a harsh policy - trips, appts, and such would be waived. It's just the "we didn't wake up in time" type of folks I want to weed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 Re: Contact- I/we have set up a fair amount of reminders. At the verge of annoying some people, so I think that is good. I'm not calling people though, I'm not anyone's babysitter and if they don't care enough to keep track then they obviously don't care that much. I'm not doing more for people then they do themselves. I think you all are right about some type of fee but also see balking at this. A HUGE problem is most of the organizers aren't very organized and are late themselves, refuse to plan ahead etc. I think I'm fighting an uphill battle here. I can see that it would be good but others don't see the value in actually planning ahead and already think I am a bit of a nazi for wanting all the events actually planned before the year starts instead of that day or the day before. I'm trying to brainstorm a way to make it work for those w/ a limited budget though, we are in a very poor area for the most part. I wonder if we could have people volunteer for work or pay and if they don't follow through w/ work before the event then they have to pay. Or perhaps the deposit that people get back when they show up but I can see every excuse under the sun and then I'm the bad guy because no one else would enforce. I think we are screwed. Now I'm trying to think of a diplomatic way to phrase this to other leaders...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rieshy Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Run away. :tongue_smilie: If the leaders are not organized and don't want to be- there is no way you can enforce anything. I've been on both sides of this before. It's like herding cats. You might have to choose between keeping these people as friends or running a co-op professionally- maybe even starting a new one from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2att Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Run away. :tongue_smilie: If the leaders are not organized and don't want to be- there is no way you can enforce anything. I've been on both sides of this before. It's like herding cats. You might have to choose between keeping these people as friends or running a co-op professionally- maybe even starting a new one from scratch. The above is completely accurate. Leadership sets the example, and if the leaders are flakes, the membership will be also. Unless they are entirely on the same page as you and willing to make the necessary changes, you will be fighting a losing battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I think you all are right about some type of fee but also see balking at this. A HUGE problem is most of the organizers aren't very organized and are late themselves, refuse to plan ahead etc. I think I'm fighting an uphill battle here. I can see that it would be good but others don't see the value in actually planning ahead and already think I am a bit of a nazi for wanting all the events actually planned before the year starts instead of that day or the day before. Then they can organize their own activities and do it the way they want to. I have no mercy. ::evil grin:: I'm trying to brainstorm a way to make it work for those w/ a limited budget though, we are in a very poor area for the most part. I wonder if we could have people volunteer for work or pay and if they don't follow through w/ work before the event then they have to pay. Or perhaps the deposit that people get back when they show up but I can see every excuse under the sun and then I'm the bad guy because no one else would enforce. I think we are screwed. Plan activities that don't cost anything, and charge $1 per person. Don't give it back, either. Put it in the general fund or something. People who volunteer can get their money back, but only after the event. Be brave; be the bad guy. The alternative--not charging, continuing to have people flake out, etc.--is far worse. Now I'm trying to think of a diplomatic way to phrase this to other leaders...... Good luck with that. :D Perhaps you can point out to them what things have been like in the past, and suggest that you try charging and deadlines and whatnot for a few things and see how it goes. You could also remind them that the definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing but expecting different results. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 I just read an email I had typed to a friend and she thought it was harsh, hmm. We are going to schedule a meeting though and perhaps we can hammer things out. My friend said she would play the bad guy role though as she tends to come off as way more diplomatic. I come off like you Ellie irl :) I want to encourage the lady but also stress within our current framework there is no way this will be successful. I also want to discuss our goals and vision for the group. I'd love to have some more organization but I refuse to do it all, everyone has to commit, leaders first. Our biggest problem is one lady who wants to lead but is a very disorganized person. She wants to be in charge but has no idea of how to do that but refuses to be led as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Run away. :tongue_smilie: If the leaders are not organized and don't want to be- there is no way you can enforce anything. I've been on both sides of this before. It's like herding cats. You might have to choose between keeping these people as friends or running a co-op professionally- maybe even starting a new one from scratch. :iagree: I have BTDT. It's virtually impossible to change what you have described. If it were me, I would quietly start offering things in my own home and set an entirely new standard for what happens there, where I am in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 :iagree:Money lost is the key to high turnouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 We are going to start charging for our free field trips this year, and then either donate the money charged to the group that's doing the event if they're a non-profit (museums might do free field trips for school groups-but it doesn't mean they don't still have expenses, for example) or put it towards activities for the group. And even when you charge, it's not assured. I coordinated science fair for our group this year, and even with a required participation fee, I had 6 projects not show up, with no excuse given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 :iagree: I have BTDT. It's virtually impossible to change what you have described. If it were me, I would quietly start offering things in my own home and set an entirely new standard for what happens there, where I am in charge. You guys are not inspiring my confidence. I didn't mention 2 other leaders already quit this year due to disorganization and lack of communication. I tried starting something in my own house, which worked reasonably well. But I ended up choosing people to invite that seem to flake as well. I set it up at paying the expenses and should have started w/ offering and then giving them a fee and asking for pre-registration. I believe the group has been so disorganized for so long that anyone around who hs's and is organized runs for the hills so most members we have aren't terribly reliable people, although I generally like them. As it is for me now I don't need a lot from the group but as the kids are older I can see I would like things to go in a different direction. I guess I'll see how the meeting goes and go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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