Are incentives really *that* bad?

[mommymilkies]

I have read Unconditional Parenting a million times. I believe it...to a point. I have two kids with (waiting for dr confirmation) ADHD and pretty bad emotional and frustration control. I would love for my kids to do things just for the sake of doing them-like helping with chores, or getting their handwriting done. I do not have every second to stand there watching them write every letter correctly and even if I did, I need to do something about the meltdowns.

 

I was reading Smart But Scattered and I liked many of the ideas for collaborating with kids and using incentives to meet goals-things like unloading the dishwasher before lunch or getting through a math lesson without a meltdown.

 

So are incentives-charts, rewards, whatever, really that horrible and evil? If you use them, do they work for you? Can you wean off of them over time easily? If you did use them, did your kids ever get to the point where they would do things without an incentive? Someone talk me down from being paranoid that doing incentives will destroy my child's altruism! :lol:

[Rosie_0801]

I bribed my daughter to do her speech therapy and now bribe her to do her phonics lessons. I can't force her to do it, she's unable to understand why she should so comfortable conversations exploring the topic won't help. Chocolate helps, so chocolate is what she gets. It bothers me, but as she advances, what she needs to do to earn the chocolate does too, of course. What keeps it all balanced is if she gets answers incorrect and I have to tell her the answer, I get the chocolate instead coz I did the work. :tongue_smilie: To her that seems fairer than returning them to the jar. And I like chocolate, as it happens. :p

 

I'm sure she'll get to the point where one M&M for reading a book will seem too stingy and the whole idea will fizzle out. :lol:

 

Rosie

[serendipitous journey]

 

So are incentives-charts, rewards, whatever, really that horrible and evil?

 

No.

:)

 

.... Chocolate helps, so chocolate is what she gets...

 

Just for the record, I bribe myself, too. Often with a bit of chocolate :).

 

I've used a piece of white chocolate (VERY rare treat around here) each time I read Button a new book when he was three -- the child was insanely reading-averse. I shamelessly use affection/enthusiasm as an unofficial motivator -- I have become quite the cheerleader; though to be honest, I'm usually very affectionate, just not naturally so positive about schoolwork. I incentivized our daily Calculadder with "bookstore dollars" -- dollars to spend at a local bookstore, which carries pretty much only books and not toys -- but Button and I both stopped keeping track after a bit, once the habit was established. He gets an ice-cream cone before his hip-hop class as an incentive. &c.

 

There are lots of reasons to use incentives, some good and some bad, and good and bad methods. I would say that much of the psychology around incentives can be weird. I've found, for example, that giving a treat before or during the behavior is much more effective with Button than giving it afterward, generally speaking. If you are thoughtful and observe the child and the relationship, I cannot imagine that offering rewards will ruin anything. Button knows, for instance, that nearly all good behavior is expected of him without reward, so there is no danger of him thinking that the point of a certain behavior is the treat. We usually explain why we want him to do things -- like Calculadder -- and explain the incentive explicitly as one of the behavior-management tools we use. I have told him that I reward myself with treats sometimes for doing something unpleasant, difficult, or otherwise aversive. I see this as modeling one strategy for self-management, and think it is a valuable tool to have in one's self-management kit.

[lewelma]

So are incentives-charts, rewards, whatever, really that horrible and evil? If you use them, do they work for you? Can you wean off of them over time easily? If you did use them, did your kids ever get to the point where they would do things without an incentive? Someone talk me down from being paranoid that doing incentives will destroy my child's altruism! :lol:

 

I use them. But *how* I use them is important IMHO. My incentives are not $ based and typically not food. Usually they are either visual (paper chain) or special time with a parent. I discuss what needs to be done not from the point of "I want you to do this" but rather "you need to learn how to do this and sometimes I find that a little reward helps to motivate me. Do you think it would help you?" And I give an adult example, like "I let myself play on the computer for 15 minutes if I finish reading my textbook chapter." And I talk to them about a reward helps motivate a person until the *habit* is created and then you don't need the reward any more.

 

Just today, I sat down with my son and we talked about how he is 8 and he is ready to do his chores without me reminding him, and how I wanted to help him make it a habit. We brainstormed ideas and he suggested that if he did his chores for 3 days without me reminding him, that then we could work on making a new character for him for Dungeons and Dragons. We will continue that agreement for about 3 months. I also make sure that I help him check things off, and make sure it is all positive. No withholding rewards, but rather "ok, you are forgetting and I want you to have a reward, how can we make sure you remember?" Then we brainstorm ideas. I regularly remind him that the goal is NOT the reward, but rather learning to do something you don't want to do by making it into a habit.

 

Overall, in our family the rewards are to help HIM internalize something rather than to make him compliant. It keeps him in the power position and keep the rewards as a tool that *he* uses to help himself.

 

Hope that makes sense,

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited May 27, 2012 by lewelma

[serendipitous journey]

I... I discuss what needs to be done not from the point of "I want you to do this" but rather "you need to learn how to do this and sometimes I find that a little reward helps to motivate me. Do you think it would help you?" And I give an adult example, like "I let myself play on the computer for 15 minutes if I finish reading my textbook chapter." And I talk to them about a reward helps motivate a person until the *habit* is created and then you don't need the reward any more.

 

...

 

What an excellent summary of constructive incentives! Thank you, Ruth.

[LillyMama]

You know, I started making chore charts and behavior charts for my kids, all tied to rewards. Their chore chart is supposed to affect their allowance- for every chore they don't complete, they lose 50 cents. But you know what? I forget to give them their allowance. Not a planned forget, but an honest to goodness "hey I've got so many things on my plate, I tend to get air-headed" forget. But my kids still do their chores and never seem to notice they haven't gotten their allowance in two months. :D

 

So, I guess what I'm saying, is that the sticker chore charts we use are really more of a time-management, accountability tool. My kids have five chores to do between breakfast and when school starts. School starts at 8:30, so if they finish breakfast at 7:30 and do their chores in ten minutes, then they get 50 minutes to play before school. If they dawdle in their chores, they get less play time. I feel this is less a reward thing and more a lesson in time-management. For me, this is a real-life lesson about how procrastination never pays off. (A lesson I need to learn myself... sigh...)

 

All that to say, I think, as other posters said, it's about HOW it's used. I try not to use incentives for whether my kids do things but more as to HOW they do things. Their writing has to get done regardless, but if they do it without whining, and we finish early, then they know we might have time to go to the park on a picnic for lunch.

 

Not sure if that makes sense, as I haven't read the books you've posted about, but your post made me really re-look at how we're doing things. :D

[trlt]

I use incentives for my daughter who is 5. If there is no whining about school and cleaning her toys up for the entire day she gets a sticker on her chart. If she whines or argues she does not get a sticker but still has to do whatever it is that was asked of her. 26 stickers = a small reward. Ten charts filled = a big reward. We do this because it works for my dd. We reward with toys because it is something that she can see. We purchase whatever reward and put it by the sticker chart and every day she can see what she is working toward. We started doing this because my dd has OCD and would whine about doing school work because if things weren't "perfect" she just couldn't focus. This works because she stops before she has a meltdown because she wants that sticker. I'm sure some people would disagree with us but it has made life a lot easier for everyone in our household!!

[mumto2]

DS12 is back to getting coupons for 5 minutes of free screen time--basically games and skype. He was becoming a complete distraction for dd14 as he talked his way through school. Just a downhill spiral behavior wise in general. He gives up coupons for bad behavior receives for good. He ends up with 5 or 6 most days. This means he ends up be able to play by himself 3 hours or so per week. When dd plays with him it is free but she will only play if he is nice. My son really needs incentives sometimes. He needs to concentrate more on school and the only way for him seems to be my saying he has earned a coupon or lost one. He seems to really enjoy it when I put an "incentive program" in place. He likes having something to work for. I know some people don't believe in incentives but for my son they work. I also want to add this has been a really stress free week for me no yelling on my part and significantly less bickering for them.

[nellecv]

I've used sticker charts and rewards before for behaviors we were having a particularly hard time breaking (like arguing about every little thing all day long.) Eventually the charts always seem to fade away on their own and the behavior (mostly) remains improved.

 

Now I use a boring part / fun part system for lessons. If you sit and listen to a chapter of SOTW or an artist biography, you get to do a big, messy project afterwards. You have spend 10 minutes practicing your math facts online before you can go to any other game site. There are still a few lessons that don't have a "fun part" afterwards, but it really minimized those.

[Farrar]

I have never had a positive experience once with structured, preset rewards like sticker charts or every time you do this you get this quid pro quo things. In my personal experience, Alfie Kohn is right about those - they rob tasks of their intrinsic value and turn kids into little grubbers.

 

On the other hand, I personally think he takes it too far with other things. I don't mind doing things that celebrate a child's hard work like going for ice cream after a hard day. I let my kids put stickers on their papers if they feel good about them (though they can just use the stickers whenever they want too). I give my kids motivational jelly beans and chocolate chips during school time sometimes - though I don't tie it to performance per se. And if there are outside rewards like medals for soccer or Destination Imagination or a free donut for summer reading at the library, then I'm happy to let the kids work toward those. I'm not going to say no, you're not allowed to do that because mommy thinks rewards are morally wrong.

 

Basically, I don't rely on them, but I'm not dogmatic about them either.

 

I think goal setting is different though. We do goal setting... but there's never a reward at the end other than moving on to the next thing or meeting the goal. That's never been a problem for us.

[mommymilkies]

Thank you. This has been very helpful. I need to have a meeting with my kids about next year's work, anyway, so I will discuss this with them.

[Miss Marple]

Everything we do in life is done for some sort of reward or avoidance of undesirable consequences - be it monetary, emotional, etc. We teach our kids to do the right thing because it's the "right thing to do". Even that comes with rewards (good family relations, etc.).

 

So, no, incentives are not evil. One should exercise good judgment in assigning incentives, though. And, yes,some kids eventually learn to do "the right thing" without us telling them to. And for those kids who don't, they are exercising their gift of "free will" - unfortunately - but no amount of training with or without incentives would change that.

[Walking-Iris]

Hi ;) I think Alfie Kohn is right about a lot of his points about rewards and punishment and competition. But I also think that the harm in them comes when they are abused. Think stuffing a pacifier in a child's mouth to keep them quiet applied to big kids. You know the parenting types---"Sit still and we'll get xyz later"--said through gritted teeth.

 

Also as far as education is concerned, I apply his principles to things like grades and marks. I've never given my child a letter or number grade on anything. I think in mid to late middle school I may teach the concept of a grading system just to prepare them for what they may experience in high school, community college, or university. But personally I expect learning a subject or task to be it's own reward. The reward of a clean room or page of math well done. Even the reward of learning what needs to be improved. I think that was his main point--we give them a letter or number as a reward or punishment and then parents reward or punish the reward. It seems silly. We've all experienced worrying about what people will think of our report card and what they will do to us that what we learned or didn't learn in math is long gone.

 

But having said that, I do use rewards in a natural way. I have no problems saying "you can play your computer game after xyz." But usually that's in response to my ds bringing it up before in some way. Either he wants to but I feel something needs to take priority in that moment, or he's balking about starting something and saying he'd rather do something else. It's just a matter of fact statement letting him know that it has to wait, not used as a bribe to do something. I do also "punish" in the sense that I will take something away for unacceptable behavior. Give a lot of whining attitude and he won't be playing that game. Or bickering with his brother over anything will find that thing put away for a time. I just consider that good parenting. But I try to keep it in the realm of natural consequence. No sense in taking a computer game away when they were fighting over a stick kwim?

 

As far as chore charts and sticker charts. I've tried those mainly because my ds is on the spectrum and they help a bit with his executive functioning. Just a way to remember what he needs to do when. It's not "please clean your room and you'll get a sticker" but "put the sticker here after you've completed this so you know it's been done." That takes it out of the realm of bribery and into the realm of teaching organization. I've tried lots of different systems over the years. I'm actually considering giving Choreganizers a try since my ds is older now and I want him learning some harder household things. I just consider it a part of their education. Someone has to teach these boys how to clean a toilet properly. :tongue_smilie:

 

As far as weaning them off, I've found that it becomes automatic after a bit. Just a reminder is all my ds needs usually these days. For school, the workbox system helps organize his time. I put things I want him to do in there weekly instead of daily. He knew we were doing math, spelling etc in the mornings and all he had to do was get his books and pencil case from his drawer. I left which he wanted to do first up to him.

 

You absolutely will not be harming your kids in any way with incentives/rewards. They already have experience with them anyway because they are a natural part of life.

[BatmansWife]

See.....now this is why I don't read books. Well, actually I don't read them because I don't have time. But, if I would....I'd just take the info that I want to glean and use and leave the rest. I'm sick of people writing books and stating that things are bad and will harm kids (like rewards. Really??) when in reality it's just their personal opinion.

 

How's that for help? :001_smile:

[Farrar]

As far as chore charts and sticker charts. I've tried those mainly because my ds is on the spectrum and they help a bit with his executive functioning.

 

Yes, I would agree with that. When I've worked with kids with executive functioning disorders, behavior modification methods like this have been very effective and I distinguish that from neurotypical kids having sticker charts for everything.

[Roadrunner]

I have read Unconditional Parenting a million times. I believe it...to a point. I have two kids with (waiting for dr confirmation) ADHD and pretty bad emotional and frustration control. I would love for my kids to do things just for the sake of doing them-like helping with chores, or getting their handwriting done. I do not have every second to stand there watching them write every letter correctly and even if I did, I need to do something about the meltdowns.

 

I was reading Smart But Scattered and I liked many of the ideas for collaborating with kids and using incentives to meet goals-things like unloading the dishwasher before lunch or getting through a math lesson without a meltdown.

 

So are incentives-charts, rewards, whatever, really that horrible and evil? If you use them, do they work for you? Can you wean off of them over time easily? If you did use them, did your kids ever get to the point where they would do things without an incentive? Someone talk me down from being paranoid that doing incentives will destroy my child's altruism! :lol:

 

I read Unconditional Parenting. I think what he says makes sense, but a complete absence of "guidance"/alternative methods in the book doesn't help. He sounds like a guy who votes down everything you try and offers little on his own. I don't personally use any charts, but I do ask my kids to set weekly goals and it's not uncommon in our family to hit a coffee shop and celebrate meeting those goals with hot chocolate.

There is no reason for paranoia:D

I will be frank. After reading that book I kept feeling just like you for months. Then I got over myself.:D there have been enough people raised with "wrong" system that are plenty altruistic.

[BugsMama]

We do sticker charts and rewards. Our rewards are not often, and are books- things like batman leveled readers.... stuff he really wants, and I would give him anyway. It helps keep him motivated, and he still does what I ask, when I ask outside of the chore chart.

[mommymilkies]

Yes, I would agree with that. When I've worked with kids with executive functioning disorders, behavior modification methods like this have been very effective and I distinguish that from neurotypical kids having sticker charts for everything.

That's why I feel like using them. My oldest dd doesn't even need reminders about anything. She's overcompetitive, but doesn't care about the actual reward. My next two, though. Oh boy. Executive Dysfunction criteria was written with them in mind. And the sad thing was that I know where they got it from-me! Honestly I need an incentive chart if anyone does. I am such an airhead! I was actually considering having the kids keep a chart for me to keep me accountable in return. :tongue_smilie:

 

I did use a sticker chart with reward with a bedwetting kid. We had tried surgery, medication, everything. Seems it was a sleeping disorder issue and the Malem alarm worked. But every night it worked, he got a sticker and when he got a month with no issues, I took him for ice cream and mini-golf. It was great and worked and it was finally what did it. But I still get paranoid about ruining my kids with the stinking rewards idea! I'm at the end of my rope.

 

Walking-Iris, can you link me to the Choreganizers? I think I've heard of them before, but I need something.

[Farrar]

Yes... my experience is that a few kids are wired so that they can't see the value in tasks and struggle to see ahead far enough to get there and that this sort of structured behavior mod stuff works for them and there may be rewards attached. That's the sort of thing that makes Alfie Kohn annoy me, honestly. I feel like I'm with him philosophically, but there's no practicality and no exceptions, no balance that shows up in his writing.

[AimeeM]

Everybody performs less pleasant tasks for incentives. Some kind of incentive; whether that be a hug from your husband for a nice meal, even though you abhor cooking, or a paycheck at the end of the week from a job you hate but need. Incentives make even the less pleasant parts of life "worth it". Since what qualifies as "less pleasant" obviously varies person to person, I'm not sure how we can expect children to simply "do" them and "one day" realize that these tasks are simply a part of living. Not really. Us adults don't practice it. We do things (or abstain from them) because we fear a consequence or hope for an incentive (speed and get a fine; maintain a good driving record and your insurance rates are lower).

 

When I meet adults (including my own siblings) who were made to do tasks/chores at home growing up, WHY they did the chores, I *always* get the answer "because Mom said I had to" or something similar to that - always centered on doing it because they were told to, feared a consequence for not doing it, or hoped for a promised incentive. Never once have I received an answer like "because we all wanted to contribute and make our parent's job a bit easier!"... although I'm sure they were TOLD that this is the reason why they had to do chores :D. God knows I repeated the whole "everyone should contribute" mantra as an obedient child who wanted to please her parents; but, really, I did those things because I had no alternative... it never "taught" me anything except the skill behind the given chore (how to mop, how to clean dishes, etc). No higher moral ground because of it, frankly.

 

Mine was a long winded answer that boils down to this - we do use incentives with our children. We bribe, actually. Autumn will never read for the sake of reading. She hates it and it's tedious for her. She reads what is required for school with no complaining (wonderful attitude, that child!), but I bribe with large denominations to get her to read outside of what is required for school work. With our picky eater 3 year old (who will, if given the chance, starve himself), we bribe with Reese Cups, pennies, or anything else we get our hands on for a few bites of real food at meal times. It works.

[warneral]

My children are not allowed their 30min free screen time until after they have read for at least 30min that day. At times I feel it backfired on me, but I work at explaining that they aren't "earning" screen time, it's just that they can't use their screen time until after they've read. As you can imagine, that is a very blurry distinction for a child. Thankfully, this setup has encouraged them to read and they truly do love to read. Many times they are reading beyond their required 30min for the enjoyment of it.

 

For me it was about priorities though it does often feel like a reward system :)

 

I do reward the children at my discretion. Overall it has added joy to their routine. I believe that even SWB has mentioned skittle rewards for some school task.

[Pen]

:lurk5:

 

I read an interesting book related to this called "Drive" -- it is more about incentives as they apply to business, but parts also deal with children and research on children. Talks about when incentives work and when they can backfire. I recommend it.

[jujsky]

My son has ADHD. He defies everything in the parenting books. I say try it and if it works, it works. Don't get hung up on ruining their altruism. High-energy, special needs kids can wear you down. I say anything within reason that will get them and you through childhood that works is a good thing :D

 

FTR, reward charts and such have sporadic effect on DS. They either don't motivate him, or motivate him only in the beginning before he quickly loses interest in them. I have found that small, frequent awards upon completion of a specific task work better for him. Sticker charts don't work for him because he doesn't care about the stickers. Charts where you check off a number of boxes and then get a reward when they're all checked off don't work because it's not tangible for him. The check mark doesn't grant him immediate gratification, and most ADHD kids struggle with delayed gratification. For my son, and yes, this is probably going to sound HORRIBLE to most of you, candy works. I do this for school. I'll set a timer for him to do a specific subject, and if he's done by the time the timer goes off, he gets a piece of candy. Sometime I'll change it up a bit and give him a coin (he likes to use the vending machine at DD's dance class) or something small like a temporary tattoo or a silly eraser. I tried this the last 6 weeks of school this year, and it worked pretty well. Our days weren't perfect, but the flow improved quite a bit.

[mommymilkies]

My son has ADHD. He defies everything in the parenting books. I say try it and if it works, it works. Don't get hung up on ruining their altruism. High-energy, special needs kids can wear you down. I say anything within reason that will get them and you through childhood that works is a good thing :D

 

FTR, reward charts and such have sporadic effect on DS. They either don't motivate him, or motivate him only in the beginning before he quickly loses interest in them. I have found that small, frequent awards upon completion of a specific task work better for him. Sticker charts don't work for him because he doesn't care about the stickers. Charts where you check off a number of boxes and then get a reward when they're all checked off don't work because it's not tangible for him. The check mark doesn't grant him immediate gratification, and most ADHD kids struggle with delayed gratification. For my son, and yes, this is probably going to sound HORRIBLE to most of you, candy works. I do this for school. I'll set a timer for him to do a specific subject, and if he's done by the time the timer goes off, he gets a piece of candy. Sometime I'll change it up a bit and give him a coin (he likes to use the vending machine at DD's dance class) or something small like a temporary tattoo or a silly eraser. I tried this the last 6 weeks of school this year, and it worked pretty well. Our days weren't perfect, but the flow improved quite a bit.

 

Good point. In fact, I have that problem. Which is probably why I always forget about lists and charts. I literally forget them if they're out of sight. So something I give the kids right afterward-even if it's money to put in a jar to save up for something, might work best.

[Walking-Iris]

Yep---it has taken a lot of trial and error to find which charts/checklists work with my ds too. Honestly all of them are short lived. They work and then the novelty of the thing runs it course. I just make new systems with new goals on it for him. I didn't think of this until just now...but I might do more anti-Kohn stuff then I think. My 4 year old was having a time remembering how to spell and write his name in co-op this year. So I knew he needed more practice. I made a sign-in sheet for the computer. He had to write first and last name before he could play.

 

When he was first learning to write letters (HWT preschool) he didn't really want to finish a page, but there were only 4 letters to trace or write on his own and i felt he was just trying to get out of doing it. So I put a M&M on each letter after he wrote it. He flew through that book.

 

About meltdowns. I'm not sure exactly what that looks like in your house, but my oldest has crumpled paper and said "this is stupid I hate it"--grumbles, tears, growls, just plain frustrated and mad. Usually because I corrected him, even gently. He's a perfectionist and if he doesn't spell it or write it or answer it right the first time he's pi**ed.

 

One thing I've learned I can't do is let him off the hook. If I say "okay we'll try another day" he'll take advantage of that perceived weakness in me. :lol: I try to ask him to be more specific about what exactly he's hating at the moment and let him know that throwing a fit is not going to help me help him and that I truly do want to help. I'll let him skip the particular problem and come back to it at the end. I let him stop for a few minutes to get a break or snack or move on to something else with him realizing that the lesson/page will be finished that day regardless.

 

I try to be helpful if I feel he's truly having a hard time with the material, but if it's just a discipline/character issue (we all know the difference) I have no problem telling him what I don't like about his behavior at the moment and how I expect him to act. And I have taken away certain privileges or asked him to sit in his room until he calms down. He actually likes to close his door and draw and calm down, he just needs reminders that he needs to go cool off. I guess that would be a no-no in Kohn's book---but there are times even as an adult that I need to go lay down or (my favorite) take a shower unless I say something in anger I rather not...either with my dh or the kids.

 

I think there are different strategies needed with schoolwork problems vs discipline problems vs doing chores. I'm all Susie cream cheese nice and empathetic about schoolwork. Chores---meh, take or leave them. But behavior? I tend to lay down the law pretty fast.

[Aspasia]

I don't buy the general Unconditional Parenting philosophy, primarily for this very reason--I don't think incentives are bad. Incentives are a fact of life. Nobody (except for some very strange exceptions) goes to work for a pure love of their job. They do it for the paycheck, even if they do love or believe in what they do. Likewise, there are times where the only reason I don't break the speed limit is a fear of getting a speeding ticket. Incentives and consequences are at the core of human behavior and our society would be a complete disaster if we relied on peopaltria always do the "right thing" just for the intrinsic joy they find in it.

 

I totally believe in incentives for kids. I agree with everyone else that you have to use them wisely and that you have to tailor your system to your kids and their tendencies, but there is a principle in behavior modification called "value shifting", which basically means that people do something mainly for the incentive in the beginning, but over time, they are weaned off the incentive as they increasingly learn to value something for itself. For example, a kid gets a reward for cleaning his room. Over time, the reward is decreased, while at the same time, theoretically, he is learning to value a clean room for its own sake. I find this completely reasonable. If incentives get your kid to do something he should do but otherwise wouldn't, I say go for it.

[mommymilkies]

I think my kids would reroof the house for M&Ms! The sign in for the computer is a great idea. I might have to start making Ari do that.

 

Meltdowns-My 7 yo just is down. No warning 95% of the time. She just freezes like a statue with tears rolling down her face. If you talk to her-even nicely-she screams like a banshee, kicks, flails, and looses it completely. My 10 yo starts saying (or yelling) that he "hates this stupid xyz" and usually stabs holes in the paper. Then he is on the floor like the world literally just ended over him forgetting how to spell a word and/or the pencil running out of lead. There is no talking to them during it. The 7 yo now has a sign she will use (one finger up) to signal to me that she needs a break. That works sometimes. Otherwise she is done for the day and I'm happy to get away uninjured.

 

I talked to the 10 yo tonight during our little meeting. He said that he would be ok with a bit of incentive. If he can get through 15 minutes of schoolwork without dawdling, having a meltdown or saying anything mean or angry, then he gets a sticker. If he walks away to take a break if he knows a meltdown is about to happen, then he can still earn that sticker if he comes back and does the work. So he's not getting punished for dealing with the issue constructively. He elected for a chart up on our whiteboard (8') so that we won't forget about it. If he gets 50, he can go on a "date" with mom to the mini-golf or movies or something of the sort. We might change that goal number-we just made one up really fast. That's a cheap little date, so it's agreeable (under $10). I might also give him the choice to earn money towards more Lego sets-he really wants the LoTR ones.

 

I think I might start offering small monetary incentives for extra housework, too. The nightly clean up and daily chore they each have (walk dog/feed pets/unload dishwasher) doesn't count. Those are mandatory. But they really want more Legos, so I think I'll make a puzzle of the goal and give them one piece for each extra chore done properly. Then when it's complete, I'll buy it for them. I got that idea from the Smart but Scattered book.

[sewingmama]

I've used tons of incentives for my DD who refuses to do ANYTHING

just because". I think of it as helping them learn a habit.

 

My DD hated schoolwork - hated it. So for every page she did she got a sticker. When the chart was full she got to pick a new book. We used it for about a month and by then she got so used to the habit of doing the work that I just stopped giving her the stickers and she does the work mostly without complaint now.

 

Young children rarely understand the "joy that comes from a job well done" they don't have the foresight. So using an incentive to help motivate them to reach a goal is fine with me. After my DD started showing excitement at learning something new and started feeling proud of the work she just finished I stopped the incentive because she had "found the joy" so to speak.

 

 

How many of us would do everything we are told to do at work if we didn't get paid for it. I've never been lucky enough to have a job I loved -just one I needed. The paycheck was certainly the only motivater that got me out of bed at 6am :lol:

[sweetpea3829]

We use a behavior chart/chore chart somewhat modeled after the Dilley Septuplets behavior ladder.

 

It's a bit complicated, but it works very well, so bear with me.

 

First, the behavior ladder. There are three colors. Green, yellow, and red. Green and yellow each have five segments. Red is one segment. Green is full privilege...outside time, TV time, computer, leapster, etc.

 

Yellow is a warning zone. If you are on yellow, you lose outside, TV, computer, and leapster. You also do not earn bonus points for volunteering for extra chores.

 

Red is the "tomato-staking" zone. If you are on red, you will spend the rest of the day right by my side. I will challenge your behavior and will correct you. You will have extra chores, specifically, those chores that are not exactly desirable (like cleaning trash cans).

 

You are asked to "drop your pin" when you behave in a way that is outside of our family's expectations. You may be asked to drop your pin several spaces, depending on the severity of your behavior.

 

The next aspect of our family's behavior/chore chart are the apprenticeships. Every week, each child chooses two chore clips. One of those is a chore that is done daily. The other clip is a chore that is done less frequently and is more or less a "bonus" chore.

 

Chores are expectations of everybody. You are a member of our family and as a family, we work together to accomplish tasks that keep our home running smoothly.

 

We look at chores as apprenticeships because, essentially, that is what they are. Each apprenticeship is a learning opportunity. My chef apprentice spends the week learning how to cook (and this also reduces the clamor of four kids fighting to be the kitchen helper). My vet apprentice spends the week learning what is needed to care for animals. Our lawn maintenance apprentice will eventually learn to care for our property. Our auto mechanic apprentice will, over time, learn how to care for vehicles. The goal is to teach these kiddos how to accomplish these necessary home tasks. And hopefully, they will begin taking a greater role in these tasks, to the point where we don't need to closely oversee them.

 

Now...each child has a 100 chart. Every night, we have a family meeting. During that meeting, we count how many points each child has earned. 1 point for every behavior space they did not lose (out of a total of 10...red does not count for any points). 5 bonus points for completing your apprenticeship with a positive attitude (no points if you sulk or complain...not yet a problem at this age).

 

When you reach 100 points, you earn 2 gold coins. Each child has their own little coin bank. If you kept all of your behavior points for the day, you earn a bonus coin. Sometimes I randomly award bonus coins. Sometimes I randomly award bonus points.

 

Every Sunday, we choose new apprenticeships and we also use coins to purchase things from our incentive bin. The bin is stocked with mostly great stuff...there are some Calico Critters in there for DD. Mostly, it's educational stuff, and once it's purchased by a child and played with for a bit, it goes into our classroom for busy play (stuff I take out to keep kiddos busy, while I'm working with one child at a time). Each item in the bin is marked with a color sticker, and each sticker indicates a certain amount of coins needed to buy the item.

 

I've made some adjustments since we started this program last Fall. For one, I now require the kids to have at least five coins before they can redeem on a Sunday. I found that certain children were unwilling to save their coins and as soon as they had one, when that sunday came around, they'd spend it on whatever they could afford, even if they didn't want that particular item.

 

A few things...if you finish your day on red, you forfeit all points for the day. And you begin the next day on the top of yellow level. Otherwise, everybody starts a new day with a fresh start on the top of green.

 

Occasionally, I have asked one child to "pay" his sibling out of his coin box, when they had destroyed that child's toy.

 

As they grow older, this can adjust quite easily to suit their needs.

 

I'll tell ya, we have had a TON of math during our family meetings. Adding, subtracting, predicting, rote counting, number bonds, etc etc etc. Eventually, I think we might move from gold coins to play money.

 

This has been very effective for us. They have a motivation to behave. I can quickly and easily give a consequence for a behavior without feeling overwhelmed. They are 100% clear on the fact that their choices have consequences and they can control their future by how they behave today. We have had situations where a child behaved negatively and the outcome affected them the next day, and then the next day after that...putting me in a position to point out, "See...you did xyz on Monday, and because of that, 123 happened and now abc has happened because of THAT. If you had not done xyz, you'd be in a pretty different situation right now, wouldn't you?"

 

Will they eventually internalize good behavior? I think so. I think they already are.

 

[LillyMama]

We use a behavior chart/chore chart somewhat modeled after the Dilley Septuplets behavior ladder.

 

It's a bit complicated, but it works very well, so bear with me.

 

First, the behavior ladder. There are three colors. Green, yellow, and red. Green and yellow each have five segments. Red is one segment. Green is full privilege...outside time, TV time, computer, leapster, etc.

 

Yellow is a warning zone. If you are on yellow, you lose outside, TV, computer, and leapster. You also do not earn bonus points for volunteering for extra chores.

 

Red is the "tomato-staking" zone. If you are on red, you will spend the rest of the day right by my side. I will challenge your behavior and will correct you. You will have extra chores, specifically, those chores that are not exactly desirable (like cleaning trash cans).

 

You are asked to "drop your pin" when you behave in a way that is outside of our family's expectations. You may be asked to drop your pin several spaces, depending on the severity of your behavior.

 

The next aspect of our family's behavior/chore chart are the apprenticeships. Every week, each child chooses two chore clips. One of those is a chore that is done daily. The other clip is a chore that is done less frequently and is more or less a "bonus" chore.

 

Chores are expectations of everybody. You are a member of our family and as a family, we work together to accomplish tasks that keep our home running smoothly.

 

We look at chores as apprenticeships because, essentially, that is what they are. Each apprenticeship is a learning opportunity. My chef apprentice spends the week learning how to cook (and this also reduces the clamor of four kids fighting to be the kitchen helper). My vet apprentice spends the week learning what is needed to care for animals. Our lawn maintenance apprentice will eventually learn to care for our property. Our auto mechanic apprentice will, over time, learn how to care for vehicles. The goal is to teach these kiddos how to accomplish these necessary home tasks. And hopefully, they will begin taking a greater role in these tasks, to the point where we don't need to closely oversee them.

 

Now...each child has a 100 chart. Every night, we have a family meeting. During that meeting, we count how many points each child has earned. 1 point for every behavior space they did not lose (out of a total of 10...red does not count for any points). 5 bonus points for completing your apprenticeship with a positive attitude (no points if you sulk or complain...not yet a problem at this age).

 

When you reach 100 points, you earn 2 gold coins. Each child has their own little coin bank. If you kept all of your behavior points for the day, you earn a bonus coin. Sometimes I randomly award bonus coins. Sometimes I randomly award bonus points.

 

Every Sunday, we choose new apprenticeships and we also use coins to purchase things from our incentive bin. The bin is stocked with mostly great stuff...there are some Calico Critters in there for DD. Mostly, it's educational stuff, and once it's purchased by a child and played with for a bit, it goes into our classroom for busy play (stuff I take out to keep kiddos busy, while I'm working with one child at a time). Each item in the bin is marked with a color sticker, and each sticker indicates a certain amount of coins needed to buy the item.

 

I've made some adjustments since we started this program last Fall. For one, I now require the kids to have at least five coins before they can redeem on a Sunday. I found that certain children were unwilling to save their coins and as soon as they had one, when that sunday came around, they'd spend it on whatever they could afford, even if they didn't want that particular item.

 

A few things...if you finish your day on red, you forfeit all points for the day. And you begin the next day on the top of yellow level. Otherwise, everybody starts a new day with a fresh start on the top of green.

 

Occasionally, I have asked one child to "pay" his sibling out of his coin box, when they had destroyed that child's toy.

 

As they grow older, this can adjust quite easily to suit their needs.

 

I'll tell ya, we have had a TON of math during our family meetings. Adding, subtracting, predicting, rote counting, number bonds, etc etc etc. Eventually, I think we might move from gold coins to play money.

 

This has been very effective for us. They have a motivation to behave. I can quickly and easily give a consequence for a behavior without feeling overwhelmed. They are 100% clear on the fact that their choices have consequences and they can control their future by how they behave today. We have had situations where a child behaved negatively and the outcome affected them the next day, and then the next day after that...putting me in a position to point out, "See...you did xyz on Monday, and because of that, 123 happened and now abc has happened because of THAT. If you had not done xyz, you'd be in a pretty different situation right now, wouldn't you?"

 

Will they eventually internalize good behavior? I think so. I think they already are.

 

[ATTACH]8864[/ATTACH]

 

I pretty much feel completely inadequate right now. That looks like a full time job, I have no idea how you find the time to teach and keep a home while doing this! Will you come set up and maintain this system in my house?! ;)

[sweetpea3829]

Oh gosh...I spent WEEKS neglecting housework, schoolwork, etc getting this put together. During that time, my children ran around raucous and out of control. Last year, we lost pretty much all of our structure and routine when we moved from RI to NY, spent 8 months in a transition rental home (with half our stuff still packed) and then moved again to our forever home. During that time, the kids just took over. They were SO naughty.

 

It took awhile to put everything together, and we've definitely had to make adjustments, but now that it's up and running, it runs pretty smoothly. The biggest issue is remembering that kids on yellow have lost privileges. Honestly, the kids rarely fall to yellow anymore, so when they do, my husband and I completely forget that they aren't supposed to play outside, or watch TV, or have 8:30 bed (not that anybody is in bed by 8:30 during these spring and summer months). So I would say being consistent with the consequences has been a challenge. But at this age, the loss of the points and the mere need to drop a pin is generally enough to get somebody's attention.

 

It's DEFINITELY helped with managing the home. Expectations are clear and now that the kids are "in training," they are able to help with more and more household responsibilities.

 

And, I find much less need to scream and yell...which is a bonus!

[sweetpea3829]

Oh gosh...I spent WEEKS neglecting housework, schoolwork, etc getting this put together. During that time, my children ran around raucous and out of control. Last year, we lost pretty much all of our structure and routine when we moved from RI to NY, spent 8 months in a transition rental home (with half our stuff still packed) and then moved again to our forever home. During that time, the kids just took over. They were SO naughty.

 

It took awhile to put everything together, and we've definitely had to make adjustments, but now that it's up and running, it runs pretty smoothly. The biggest issue is remembering that kids on yellow have lost privileges. Honestly, the kids rarely fall to yellow anymore, so when they do, my husband and I completely forget that they aren't supposed to play outside, or watch TV, or have 8:30 bed (not that anybody is in bed by 8:30 during these spring and summer months). So I would say being consistent with the consequences has been a challenge. But at this age, the loss of the points and the mere need to drop a pin is generally enough to get somebody's attention.

 

It's DEFINITELY helped with managing the home. Expectations are clear and now that the kids are "in training," they are able to help with more and more household responsibilities.

 

And, I find much less need to scream and yell...which is a bonus!

[Parker Martin]

We use a sheet of paper for each kid.

 

At the end of the day, you get a star if you were generally helpful and obedient, another star if you had no potty-related accidents, and another if you were good after going to bed the night before (read: you didn't call us back to your room for nonsense, you stopped talking when asked, and you stayed in bed until the specified time in the morning.)

 

We've been doing this for three years with one and a year and a half with the other, and it works like a charm. Works better than any other approach for behavior modification we've tried. They are exceptionally good boys. And they don't seem obsessed with the stars; I think they really like the formal recognition of jobs well done.

[Farrar]

I pretty much feel completely inadequate right now. That looks like a full time job, I have no idea how you find the time to teach and keep a home while doing this! Will you come set up and maintain this system in my house?! ;)

 

To each their own, because even if I did believe in doing structured rewards, that would be WAY too much work for me to feel like it was worth it. That's the thing about it, I guess... that for most kids, I think it's more work to do things like that than to just tell them to do it and create an atmosphere where work is expected, valued, and respected.

[sweetpea3829]

You know, with the exception of the initial startup, there's hardly any "work" involved at all. We have a 5-10 minute daily meeting. They know their week's responsibilities by Sunday evening and I need only remind them.

 

We went back and forth on whether to "pay" for chores. As I mentioned, we teach them that, as a family unit, they are expected to chip in. But the truth is, nobody works for free. The points they get for their chores are not given because they did the chore, it's given for a positive attitude while doing the chore. It gives them an opportunity to feel some control, without making them feel like they don't have to help out.

 

I don't know, I guess I feel like we have a just fine atmosphere. I know they know what's expected of them. I'm not forgetting who's week it is to do certain chores, they're not arguing over who gets to do what. Our home is certainly a heck of a lot more peaceful than it was before.

 

Totally worth the initial time to set it up and the 10 minute family meeting. And I love that we can show them how math relates to their everyday lives with the point keeping and reward coins.

 

Win-win

[Walking-Iris]

To each their own, because even if I did believe in doing structured rewards, that would be WAY too much work for me to feel like it was worth it. That's the thing about it, I guess... that for most kids, I think it's more work to do things like that than to just tell them to do it and create an atmosphere where work is expected, valued, and respected.

 

And for my kids--they just don't care! Like I mentioned above I have had to try various different things because any kind of chart (we've tried stickers, magnets, checklists, sequencing flip charts) work only a short time. They work initially with my ds to help him learn a new task. But they all eventually fizzle out because my kids just don't see the connection between a sticker or a happy face magnet and cleaning their room. Usually what works in the long run is me mentioning over and over how nice it is to hang out in a clean room. Or to mention that such and such toy is lost because it wasn't put back etc.

 

But about meltdowns, since that seems to be the op's biggest concern. Your ds sounds like mine. His outbursts of angry frustration are usually due to his perfectionism. If he has trouble spelling a word then it's an automatic jump to "I don't know how to do anything--I can't spell" and the best thing in that situation is to point out all the ones he just spelled correctly. He also is a tad lazy. He's smart but I think being on the spectrum has just naturally emphasized a type of laziness because he fears anything that might be a perceived challenge.

 

Also I think that when kids are having strong reactions to something, they might not be developmentally ready for it. I take two steps back and one forward a lot. It might also help if you tried to pinpoint a pattern with your ds and dd's outbursts. Do they always happen at a certain time of day? Just before or after a certain lesson? Did they have to stop doing something else to start school? (Watching tv or playing on the computer first thing derails my whole morning). Is a lesson too long? The possibilities can be endless. I know for my ds there are mornings where it's awful and the only reason I can see for it is he's just throwing a fit because he doesn't want to do anything, period. And then that becomes a discipline issue. Being on the spectrum can aggravate those behaviors, but I've never been one to let a label or diagnosis give him an excuse to act badly.

 

Besides the incentive plan, I would try to figure out what is triggering the meltdowns as well.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Walking-Iris

[mommymilkies]

Also I think that when kids are having strong reactions to something, they might not be developmentally ready for it. I take two steps back and one forward a lot. It might also help if you tried to pinpoint a pattern with your ds and dd's outbursts. Do they always happen at a certain time of day? Just before or after a certain lesson? Did they have to stop doing something else to start school? (Watching tv or playing on the computer first thing derails my whole morning). Is a lesson too long? The possibilities can be endless. I know for my ds there are mornings where it's awful and the only reason I can see for it is he's just throwing a fit because he doesn't want to do anything, period. And then that becomes a discipline issue. Being on the spectrum can aggravate those behaviors, but I've never been one to let a label or diagnosis give him an excuse to act badly.

 

Besides the incentive plan, I would try to figure out what is triggering the meltdowns as well.

 

There really is no rhyme or reason. It can be something as simple as not finding an eraser he likes to something like making a simple computation error in math (adding 5+7 as 13, for example). He actually does better if it's more advanced work-he's good at multiplying fractions or remembering difficult science terminology, for example. But it's a perfectionism thing. Some days are worse than others, but the hardest part is the entire lack of warning 95% of the time. Usually we don't know until it's too late. I've told him to walk or talk. He can talk to me about it (hasn't happened yet!), or he can walk away and come back later. I told him he h I did talk to him about how that works in our brains and I'm hoping that some sort of incentive will at least lead them to try an alternate route if they meltdown, or at least make them calm down for the sake of everyone else's mental health. Because nobody else can do anything when there's a screaming, crying, flailing child at the table.

 

And NO tv or computer before school for them, too. We learned the hard way with dh home in the mornings that the rest of the day was crap if they watched anything. I even stopped waking the older kids up so that they can come out when they're ready and I can work with the early birds, but even extra sleep hasn't helped.

[mommymilkies]

Sweetpea-that is a pretty awesome setup. I especially like the red/yellow/green chart. That would be a great way for me to keep track of everyone around here.

[mommymilkies]

Ds is doing great with the chart. He already has met 1/4 of his goal and is very enthusiastic. I just started my 7 yo's yesterday and it's not going so well. She has worse frustration issues, though. Dh was helping her with a math placement test earlier. She got mad about a problem and dh encouraged her to stop there and it was not a big deal. She refused to give up and refused to try...it wasn't pretty.

 

I'm open for any other input you all might have for incentive programs!

[Pen]

:bigear: bump

[Iucounu]

For a while we used an incentive-based system based on "Transforming the Difficult Child", for disciplinary reasons. It worked and things got a lot calmer around the house. Later on we ditched it, but still use negative incentives sometimes (taking away "privileges", a catchall term including TV/movies, computers, etc.). I reward DS6 for doing his best sometimes, but it's usually not an anticipated reward, except perhaps in a generalized and random way, by virtue of being unannounced.

[Wheres Toto]

Sticker charts have never worked for my kids. They just don't have the drive yet for long term working toward goals. They can not play on the computer until school is done and they lose computer or video game time for misbehavior. The hard part is following through since their computer/game time is my peace and quiet time. :tongue_smilie: