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S/O what do you spend per child on extra curriculars?


How much do you spend per child, on extra curriculars, each month?  

  1. 1. How much do you spend per child, on extra curriculars, each month?



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Each child is allowed 2 activities during the school year. I prefer that one be a musical instrument and one be a physical activity.

 

I have one who takes guitar (weekly lesson) & TKD (2-3X/ week)

 

One in piano & TKD

 

One in Ballet & TKD

 

Each child's activity adds up to around $200/ month. This is offset by the fact that the charter school pays for 2/3 of the TKD, all the piano & guitar and 80% of the Ballet. The charter school doesn't pay over the Summer so other arrangements have to be made. We do not take ballet or guitar over the Summer. The piano teacher trades babysitting for lessons over the Summer & my oldest is the assistant in the lower belt TKD classes so her siblings can take classes over the Summer for free.

 

I honestly do not know how families are able to participate in so many activities. We live in an area with a very high COL. Between regular COL, uninsured ortho, a driving teenager and one off to college, if we were not a part of the charter school my kids would not be able to do any of these things. That is the main reason we are a part of the charter school, otherwise it is a PITA.

 

Amber in SJ

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Scouts is $200 per year plus uniform/book costs and extra activity fees (like when we slept over at the hockey game)

 

Girl guides this year was $120 reg plus uniform and book, plus extra activities adding up to an addition $25-50 per month to participate (camps, cooking days etc held outside of meeting times)

 

Other years we have done TKD, music lessons, swim team, soccer etc.

 

On average I spend between $250-400 Per Child per year, last year I spent closer to $1000 per older kid because of swim team in addition to the rest.

 

Next year will be around $600 per child for activities all year plus the gas to get to all said activities.

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  • 2 months later...

Only estimating, but probably about $400 per month for 3 kids. Depends what you include really - just regular things or one off / occasional things.

They all do gymnastics classes, two of them do swimming, one in Scouts, one in Guides (equivalent to Girl Scouts), one in Minisports. They also do horseriding sometimes (we can't afford to offer this regularly), two home ed co-ops, and occasional science classes and other things that happen only in the school holidays. They used to have piano lessons but now I teach them all myself to free up money for the other stuff.

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DS

violin 100/month

Ski season 200/6 weeks

Soccer 550/6 month for travel team = 100/month, 60 6 weeks for recreation team

Tennis 75/6 weeks =50/month

Skate 14/week=70/month

around 500 when soccer and ski hit at the same time. I probably will not do skate during winter for him

 

DD

piano 100/month

swimming 55/6 weeks = 40 month

Skate 14/week=70/month

Thinking gymnastic, that will be about 60/month

so 300/month

And will add ski during ski season 1st time this year for 200/6 weeks

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In the past we've spent a lot more (a WHOLE lot more) but at this point DS is out of a lot of lessons and classes and into more volunteering and working. So instead of an extra science or robotics club or class, he has a volunteer position with a watershed group and is putting together a robotics team of his friends in our basement.

 

On the other hand he's about to need a new flute, which will be a significant expense... but not a monthly fee.

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It is minmal right now, but when ds swam it was around $600/mth. Pool fees, gear/suits, coach fees, travel, meet fees, fuel (he was on a team out of town), etc.

 

Oh no! We may be joining a swim team soon. Was that in some sort of elite level?

 

We have membership at a college gym for DD to swim. One of us had to be a member as well in order to supervise her. Swim teachers charge about $50 per 30 minutes, but coaches probably cost more. Aack, maybe I just need to forget the whole thing.

 

I've been wanting to ask the general Hive for some advice in this area, but I'm not even sure where to start.

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Right now for regular extra-curriculars it's just the $80/month for ds's show choir (6hrs/month. It's high, but he loves it. I'm trying to find something cheaper). If you count homeschool field trips, they run from free to $15 each and we do about 6 a month. He wants to get back into scouts and I'm still trying to find a non-conflicting basketball program.

 

Dd(15)'s dance tuition is free (normally $340/month unlimited) because she's a teacher-in-training there, but we still average about $3000/year ($250/month) on competitions, costumes, shoes, and accessories (not to mention the $$ on hotels and transportation).

 

I spring for dd(18)'s $27/month gym membership.

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I answered wrong:blushing:

 

I thought it was for all kids, not per child. My answer was for both kids, spread through the year including camps. oops.

 

My expensive kid is my ds he does

Tae Kwon Do

piano

drums

trapeze

soccer

swimming

I think that is it at the moment.

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For fall activities (swimming and dance) for my oldest it comes out to $100.50 per month, but I voted in the next category up because there are also yearly registration fees that we have to pay to the dance studio and the sports center.

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When DD was doing ballet and tumbling we were spending $100 per month. DH would like to put both kids in something for the same overall price.

 

Right now we just have Girl Scouts which is not much. Maybe $150 per year to cover field trips (which we could skip if we wanted).

 

I would love to put DS in preschool but $50 per week is the cheapest I can find and that is still too much.

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Oh no! We may be joining a swim team soon. Was that in some sort of elite level?

 

We have membership at a college gym for DD to swim. One of us had to be a member as well in order to supervise her. Swim teachers charge about $50 per 30 minutes, but coaches probably cost more. Aack, maybe I just need to forget the whole thing.

 

I've been wanting to ask the general Hive for some advice in this area, but I'm not even sure where to start.

 

Talk to someone on the team, every area is different. He was on an elite team but the costs are pretty high for most swimmers.

 

Things to consider

 

Gas to practice (2ways)5-7 times per week

Team fees

Mandatory fund raising or buyout

Team suits, practice suits, team sweats, towels, laundry, goggles/caps/gear.

Pool fees if they are separate from team fees.

"land" classes--competitive swimmers often do workouts outside the pool. Ds team did strength training and spinning class--some teams include it in the cost some do not.

Meet fees and depending on location of meets, travel expenses incl hotels/food.

Meets are often 3 days long, so while the meet itself only costs $50 or so, if you have to drive or get a hotel, it can easily turn into a $300 weekend. The more rural you are, the more you travel.

Food..swimmers burn massive calories. Ds ate 5 full, man size meals a day when swimming.

 

 

Swimming has two seasons. Short course and long course. You can do one, or both, but most swimmers who are serious, do it all. Factor that into 12 months and it gets expensive quick! In the 2 weeks between sessions fall/spring, there are often training camps also. Those can be another couple of hundred.

 

There are ways to cut expenses: carpooling, selective meet choices, refusing to buy extras, fund raising, not taking the entire family to each meet etc.

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Dance for my oldest is $465 per month just for tuition. Then there's competition fees, costumes, shoes, etc. so probably averages out to around $500/month. We do split the cost with her dad.

 

My younger kids are doing much less expensive rec sports or homeschool classes.

 

What does costs $500/month? And what's the age of the child. I'm going to enroll my daughter in dance class this year. She is 3.5 yr old and once a week class costs $18/month. So $500 is sky high for me.

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I went for the highest category but spend more than that. :glare: I try to live in denial. :lol:

 

Meet Noodle, he is standing next to my dd18 in the avatar photo. He is a lovely Hanoverian. His corrective shoes alone cost $185 per month. He needs annual hock injections and must be iced down after every training session. :lol: He lives a life of luxury.

 

Fortunately, I only lease him. Monthly lease payments could buy me two new cars (payments). :auto:

 

Shows are around $300 if local, and over $1000 if out of town. This does not touch on show tack and clothing.

 

DD also does 4H, Teen Court and Mock Trial but those expenses are negligible in comparison.

 

When she leaves for college and Noodle's owner takes over, my expenses will go down.

 

On the plus side, her college application packages included a high SAT, over 1000 hours of community service and college level athletics. She has received some very nice scholarships and a skill she truly enjoys.

Edited by Denise in Florida
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Talk to someone on the team, every area is different. He was on an elite team but the costs are pretty high for most swimmers.

 

Things to consider

 

Gas to practice (2ways)5-7 times per week

Team fees

Mandatory fund raising or buyout

Team suits, practice suits, team sweats, towels, laundry, goggles/caps/gear.

Pool fees if they are separate from team fees.

"land" classes--competitive swimmers often do workouts outside the pool. Ds team did strength training and spinning class--some teams include it in the cost some do not.

Meet fees and depending on location of meets, travel expenses incl hotels/food.

Meets are often 3 days long, so while the meet itself only costs $50 or so, if you have to drive or get a hotel, it can easily turn into a $300 weekend. The more rural you are, the more you travel.

Food..swimmers burn massive calories. Ds ate 5 full, man size meals a day when swimming.

 

 

Swimming has two seasons. Short course and long course. You can do one, or both, but most swimmers who are serious, do it all. Factor that into 12 months and it gets expensive quick! In the 2 weeks between sessions fall/spring, there are often training camps also. Those can be another couple of hundred.

 

There are ways to cut expenses: carpooling, selective meet choices, refusing to buy extras, fund raising, not taking the entire family to each meet etc.

 

:iagree:

Swimming is our biggest expense. DD8's swimming runs ~1000 in club fees, I end up buying ~3 swimming suits a year($60 x 3), ~4 pairs of goggles ($12 x 4), towels, and caps. We do ~6 intra-squad meets a year ($7.50 x 6), 4-6 swim meets ($45 x 6), plus travel for 4 of the meets ($200-300 x 4). I don't even want to know what it does to our food budget. I do know she can easily out eat me on days she swims. We don't have fundraising but we do have mandatory volunteer hours.

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We may be outliers here but we spend more than our mortgage payment per month for "extracurriculars." I don't want to go into exact detail on the internet but between violin lessons, fiddle lessons, wrestling club, guitar lessons, piano lessons, orchestra, and the massive amounts of travel and concerts, we are way over $501 a month.

 

You are not alone. :001_smile: :grouphug:

 

Sending my youngest dd to college will be less expensive. HA

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In the past we've spent a lot more (a WHOLE lot more) but at this point DS is out of a lot of lessons and classes and into more volunteering and working. So instead of an extra science or robotics club or class, he has a volunteer position with a watershed group and is putting together a robotics team of his friends in our basement.

 

I added things up in my head and then went to vote in the poll . . . only to realize this is a few months old and I'd voted already.

 

But I figured I'd chime in and say that we, too, are cutting back quite a bit on expenses. My husband took a pay cut a little over a year ago, from which we assumed he would bounce back quickly. However, six months or so ago we realized the bouncing just isn't happening.

 

So, we've dropped my son's voice lessons (which were over $200 per month) and declared there will be no more tuition-based youth theatre.

 

He earned a scholarship to take a second dance class.

 

So, his schedule for extras this fall will be:

 

- choir ($150 per semester)

- two dance classes per week ($50 per month)

- co-op classes one day per week ($50 per month)

- model rocket club one Saturday per month ($15 membership fee per year, plus occasional materials)

- volunteering at the science museum two days per month (free)

- volunteering at a local theatre as needed (free)

- community theatre if he is cast in any shows (free)

 

I think that adds up to about about $125 per month, which is about one-third of what we were spending last academic year.

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What does costs $500/month? And what's the age of the child. I'm going to enroll my daughter in dance class this year. She is 3.5 yr old and once a week class costs $18/month. So $500 is sky high for me.

 

That's because she's three and it's once per week.

 

An older child who is serious about dance takes several classes each week and requires a lot more in the way of gear. Some also get private coaching and participate in competitions.

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We may be outliers here but we spend more than our mortgage payment per month for "extracurriculars." I don't want to go into exact detail on the internet but between violin lessons, fiddle lessons, wrestling club, guitar lessons, piano lessons, orchestra, and the massive amounts of travel and concerts, we are way over $501 a month.

 

Ayup.

 

Both daughters, 16 and 14, have a weekly piano lesson. One also has a weekly violin lesson; the other, a weekly guitar lesson and a weekly voice lesson.

 

They both swim, winter and summer, and the team just made the leap from rec league to USA Swimming, which has more than doubled our registration costs alone (which does not include meet fees, travel, etc.).

 

They both also take archery classes April through October; they have monthly practice passes for the indoor range in the "off" months.

 

Although they have not taken any in 2012, over the three years before that, they took art classes at the local college.

 

And horses. Argh. Two riders received two lessons each per week. (May I just say that I am grateful that's been on hold for a bit?)

 

Both my husband and I were involved in several formative activities in middle and high school, including band, choir, theater, art, journalism, and yearbook. (In fact, his family was particularly supportive of his music and took him into NYC every weekend for private instruction.) We decided that if we chose the home education route, we needed to be prepared to provide our children with all of the opportunities to "explore" that we had enjoyed.

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Talk to someone on the team, every area is different. He was on an elite team but the costs are pretty high for most swimmers.

 

Things to consider

 

Gas to practice (2ways)5-7 times per week

Team fees

Mandatory fund raising or buyout

Team suits, practice suits, team sweats, towels, laundry, goggles/caps/gear.

Pool fees if they are separate from team fees.

"land" classes--competitive swimmers often do workouts outside the pool. Ds team did strength training and spinning class--some teams include it in the cost some do not.

Meet fees and depending on location of meets, travel expenses incl hotels/food.

Meets are often 3 days long, so while the meet itself only costs $50 or so, if you have to drive or get a hotel, it can easily turn into a $300 weekend. The more rural you are, the more you travel.

Food..swimmers burn massive calories. Ds ate 5 full, man size meals a day when swimming.

 

 

Swimming has two seasons. Short course and long course. You can do one, or both, but most swimmers who are serious, do it all. Factor that into 12 months and it gets expensive quick! In the 2 weeks between sessions fall/spring, there are often training camps also. Those can be another couple of hundred.

 

There are ways to cut expenses: carpooling, selective meet choices, refusing to buy extras, fund raising, not taking the entire family to each meet etc.

 

:iagree:

Swimming is our biggest expense. DD8's swimming runs ~1000 in club fees, I end up buying ~3 swimming suits a year($60 x 3), ~4 pairs of goggles ($12 x 4), towels, and caps. We do ~6 intra-squad meets a year ($7.50 x 6), 4-6 swim meets ($45 x 6), plus travel for 4 of the meets ($200-300 x 4). I don't even want to know what it does to our food budget. I do know she can easily out eat me on days she swims. We don't have fundraising but we do have mandatory volunteer hours.

 

Thank you both for breaking down some of the fees for me.

 

I need to ask questions about swim clubs and related issues in a different thread. I can't even get DD's goggles right. They either fog up or let in water. That's how lost I am.

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Only one of my kids has ECs that cost anything now.

 

My oldest is in college now. She was in Tae Kwon Do for two years at a cost of $90/month and then was in kickboxing for one year at a cost of $40/month. She also did a cartooning class for two years that cost $45/month.

 

My middle dd participates in Anime Club and Game Day at the library, but those are free. For 5 years, she did a gymnastics class and a tumbling class (at the gym 2x/week) for a total cost of $85/month. She dropped that 3 years ago.

 

My youngest has expensive ECs now, but went without for a long time because she didn't have anything she was interested in. She took a sewing class for 2 years that was $45/month, but she has dropped that for now. She started voice lessons back in January and those are $100/month. She's been with her guitar teacher for 2.5 years, but she started off with group lessons at just $40/month and then went to 30-minute private guitar lessons at $100/month and is now up to 45 minutes for guitar and banjo at $150/month. She's adding in a mandolin next month, so that will bump her lesson time up to 1 hour and will cost $200/month.

 

Dh considers all money spent on music lessons to be money well-spent and actively encourages the youngest to keep going with her music. She loves it and regularly spends 2-3 hours/day practicing.

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DD9 is involved in Allstar Cheerleading. It's around 4K a year, not including the travel expenses during comp season. So, not including travel expenses hers is about $335 a month.

 

DD7 is involved in Tae Kwon Do. That's $125 a month.

 

Altogether it's around $460/month. DD7 wants to do Allstar cheer now, as well. I simply just.... cannot. :lol:

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We spend nothing because that is what we have. It's depressing, but ds is content with a computer and Internet. He doesn't like sports or scouts and opportunities are limited in our town anyway and driving is not an option.

 

So, yes, I'm probably ruining my child's life by not having involved in Ex-curr, but he's happy and content for now. :tongue_smilie:

 

If we had the money (which we don't) we'd probably look for a Japanese tutor for us both.

 

I'm not posting for sympathy. I just know there are others out there like me that would like to not count the cost, but pennies only stretch so far. It can be hard to read threads like this, not that I hold that against anyone that is posting, but it can be hard. And yes, it's my fault for reading in the first place.

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We spend nothing because that is what we have. It's depressing, but ds is content with a computer and Internet. He doesn't like sports or scouts and opportunities are limited in our town anyway and driving is not an option.

 

So, yes, I'm probably ruining my child's life by not having involved in Ex-curr, but he's happy and content for now. :tongue_smilie:

 

If we had the money (which we don't) we'd probably look for a Japanese tutor for us both.

 

I'm not posting for sympathy. I just know there are others out there like me that would like to not count the cost, but pennies only stretch so far. It can be hard to read threads like this, not that I hold that against anyone that is posting, but it can be hard. And yes, it's my fault for reading in the first place.

 

I do not see how a lack of extra-curriculars will ruin your child's life. When I was growing up, none of the kiddos in my neighborhood did anything after school except watch game shows or soap operas.

 

:grouphug:

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I do not see how a lack of extra-curriculars will ruin your child's life. When I was growing up, none of the kiddos in my neighborhood did anything after school except watch game shows or soap operas.

 

:grouphug:

 

Thanks, I grew up the same way. HOwever, this was one aspect of my childhood I didn't wish to repeat for ds, but I'm not the only adult in the house, blah, blah, blah. Anyway we're looking into more teen/adult volunteer opportunities.

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We spend nothing because that is what we have. It's depressing, but ds is content with a computer and Internet. He doesn't like sports or scouts and opportunities are limited in our town anyway and driving is not an option.

 

So, yes, I'm probably ruining my child's life by not having involved in Ex-curr, but he's happy and content for now. :tongue_smilie:

 

If we had the money (which we don't) we'd probably look for a Japanese tutor for us both.

 

I'm not posting for sympathy. I just know there are others out there like me that would like to not count the cost, but pennies only stretch so far. It can be hard to read threads like this, not that I hold that against anyone that is posting, but it can be hard. And yes, it's my fault for reading in the first place.

 

 

:grouphug::grouphug: I'm really sorry.

 

I just wanted you to know that if you check out 4-H, it's only 10 dollars per year and if you are in an urban environment, some of the clubs do debate, foreign language, chess, robotics, etc. and all of the costs are paid for out of fundraisers instead of by the parents. Not all clubs are agricultural. Dh and I run a club and it's all STEM. We are the geek squad.

 

I just wanted to throw that out there in case you ever really feel the need to provide an extra-curricular. Money issues stink, stink, stink!

 

Faith

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Thanks, I grew up the same way. HOwever, this was one aspect of my childhood I didn't wish to repeat for ds, but I'm not the only adult in the house, blah, blah, blah. Anyway we're looking into more teen/adult volunteer opportunities.

 

Volunteering is a wonderful thing.

 

As I said, we've slashed our extras budget drastically in the last several months. And one way my son is coping is by upping his volunteering. It keeps him busy doing something worthwhile.

 

My daughter has been frustrated that we can't afford dance lessons. It's her primary area of weakness as a performer. (Of course, did she listen when I warned her about this years ago?) So, she sent out a batch of e-mails to every local dance studio that offers adult and teen beginner classes and offered to work at the studio in exchange for lessons. She had an interview today and was offered a position. She'll be working the front desk, answering phones, helping with little kid activities and so on for 10 hours a week and will get two classes and a private lesson in exchange.

 

I'd strongly encourage you to do some brainstorming with your son and investigate similar opportunities.

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Volunteering is a wonderful thing.

 

As I said, we've slashed our extras budget drastically in the last several months. And one way my son is coping is by upping his volunteering. It keeps him busy doing something worthwhile.

 

My daughter has been frustrated that we can't afford dance lessons. It's her primary area of weakness as a performer. (Of course, did she listen when I warned her about this years ago?) So, she sent out a batch of e-mails to every local dance studio that offers adult and teen beginner classes and offered to work at the studio in exchange for lessons. She had an interview today and was offered a position. She'll be working the front desk, answering phones, helping with little kid activities and so on for 10 hours a week and will get two classes and a private lesson in exchange.

 

I'd strongly encourage you to do some brainstorming with your son and investigate similar opportunities.

 

I love the way your daughter took initiative to get lessons for herself!

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Volunteering is a wonderful thing.

 

As I said, we've slashed our extras budget drastically in the last several months. And one way my son is coping is by upping his volunteering. It keeps him busy doing something worthwhile.

 

My daughter has been frustrated that we can't afford dance lessons. It's her primary area of weakness as a performer. (Of course, did she listen when I warned her about this years ago?) So, she sent out a batch of e-mails to every local dance studio that offers adult and teen beginner classes and offered to work at the studio in exchange for lessons. She had an interview today and was offered a position. She'll be working the front desk, answering phones, helping with little kid activities and so on for 10 hours a week and will get two classes and a private lesson in exchange.

 

I'd strongly encourage you to do some brainstorming with your son and investigate similar opportunities.

 

Wow, congratulations to your daughter. That will be a wonderful learning experience even aside from the dance lessons.

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:grouphug::grouphug: I'm really sorry.

 

I just wanted you to know that if you check out 4-H, it's only 10 dollars per year and if you are in an urban environment, some of the clubs do debate, foreign language, chess, robotics, etc. and all of the costs are paid for out of fundraisers instead of by the parents. Not all clubs are agricultural. Dh and I run a club and it's all STEM. We are the geek squad.

 

I just wanted to throw that out there in case you ever really feel the need to provide an extra-curricular. Money issues stink, stink, stink!

 

Faith

 

I second this whole heartedly. My dd18 had a ton of great opportunities through 4H. She sewed, entered fashion shows, entered bake offs, worked as a camp counselor, served on County and Regional councils and worked at the state level with Mock Legislature. We used many of her experiences toward credit hours on her transcript. The costs were negligible.

 

She had one high cost extra (hunter/jumper) which we supported by the skin of our teeth. Anything else she wanted had to be nearly free.

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:grouphug::grouphug: I'm really sorry.

 

I just wanted you to know that if you check out 4-H, it's only 10 dollars per year and if you are in an urban environment, some of the clubs do debate, foreign language, chess, robotics, etc. and all of the costs are paid for out of fundraisers instead of by the parents. Not all clubs are agricultural. Dh and I run a club and it's all STEM. We are the geek squad.

 

I just wanted to throw that out there in case you ever really feel the need to provide an extra-curricular. Money issues stink, stink, stink!

 

Faith

 

We had a drastically horrid experience with 4H where we used to live. Everytime I bring it up ds gets twitchy. Plus we're rural, not into livestock and he is not one for public speaking, which seems to be the other focus. He tried the shooting sports, but it was badly organized and they still wanted more money, let just say it was badly organized.

 

 

Volunteering is a wonderful thing.

 

As I said, we've slashed our extras budget drastically in the last several months. And one way my son is coping is by upping his volunteering. It keeps him busy doing something worthwhile.

 

My daughter has been frustrated that we can't afford dance lessons. It's her primary area of weakness as a performer. (Of course, did she listen when I warned her about this years ago?) So, she sent out a batch of e-mails to every local dance studio that offers adult and teen beginner classes and offered to work at the studio in exchange for lessons. She had an interview today and was offered a position. She'll be working the front desk, answering phones, helping with little kid activities and so on for 10 hours a week and will get two classes and a private lesson in exchange.

 

I'd strongly encourage you to do some brainstorming with your son and investigate similar opportunities.

 

Our opportunities are severely limited due to location. Most organized things stop at 6th grade. We've tried meetup, nothing, the homeschool group is too conservative and don't offer anything he's interested in anyway. He's too young for some opportunities.

 

 

 

I second this whole heartedly. My dd18 had a ton of great opportunities through 4H. She sewed, entered fashion shows, entered bake offs, worked as a camp counselor, served on County and Regional councils and worked at the state level with Mock Legislature. We used many of her experiences toward credit hours on her transcript. The costs were negligible.

 

She had one high cost extra (hunter/jumper) which we supported by the skin of our teeth. Anything else she wanted had to be nearly free.

 

We looked at all the 4h books even to do some on our own. He just has a truly visceral reaction, it was really bad, and he wants nothing to do with it now. He's not a kid you can push either, he's very stubborn. Scouts don't interest him at all. He's kind of like a mule, he just won't do what he's not interested in. Thankfully he doesn't complain, if he did he'd be asked to do the footwork to find the opportunity.

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We spend nothing because that is what we have. It's depressing, but ds is content with a computer and Internet. He doesn't like sports or scouts and opportunities are limited in our town anyway and driving is not an option.

 

So, yes, I'm probably ruining my child's life by not having involved in Ex-curr, but he's happy and content for now. :tongue_smilie:

 

If we had the money (which we don't) we'd probably look for a Japanese tutor for us both.

 

I'm not posting for sympathy. I just know there are others out there like me that would like to not count the cost, but pennies only stretch so far. It can be hard to read threads like this, not that I hold that against anyone that is posting, but it can be hard. And yes, it's my fault for reading in the first place.

:iagree::grouphug:
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