SilverMoon Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) . Edited February 11 by SilverMoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Have you read any of those other Hunger Games threads? We discussed this pretty extensively last week. Signed, a mom who let her twin 10-year-olds read the books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma2three Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 They're well written books that provide a great deal of food for thought (no pun intended) about our culture and society. They're not for everyone: I doubt there's any book out there that everyone will like. But I'm not sure what there is to not understand. I second reading some of last week's threads. There were some interesting suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRG Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I read it--I despised the book. It took all I had to keep on reading it. I thought it was poorly written and I am just not a fan of dystopia. All that said, I wouldn't have a problem with tweens reading it. My teenage son has not expressed interest in reading it. My best friend loves all the books... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I plan to go through the books with my ds11 at some point when we hit Greece or Rome. Many of the themes are similar. What do you mean? The always curious Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Ds and I are starting it next week as a read aloud. We're reading LotR now, we just finished Beowulf. We've watched some tough topics in movies like Hotel Rwanda. We've seen IRL man's inhumanity to man. It's not pretty. I don't know what kind of discussions we'll have, but I'm looking forward to it. Ancient history, modern history, it's all fraught with peril and people doing terrible things to others in the name of society, religion, apathy... I'd rather handle some of those discussions through fictional stories. I can detach better and still have those tough conversations with ripping part of my soul out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 What do you mean? The always curious Jane People killing each other for public entertainment in an arena. . . see the parallels? :) I've read them. I don't know that I enjoyed them, but they were certainly thought-provoking. And a little horrifying. Sometimes I think our current society isn't too far off from watching people kill each other for sport on reality television. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDad Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Have you read any of those other Hunger Games threads? We discussed this pretty extensively last week. Signed, a mom who let her twin 10-year-olds read the books :iagree: My dd(13) and dd(12) both read the books, fine, no problem. IMO, the books *sound* bad until you actually read them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 People killing each other for public entertainment in an arena. . . see the parallels? :) The previous poster noted Greece or Rome, hence I assumed she was addressing an issue other than gladiators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The book didn't have much gore at all. I'm really sensitive to that stuff...i walked out of Braveheart, but it really wasn't bad. I do have an insect phobia, so a scene with wasps was the worst part for me. I had no problem with my almost 13 year old seeing the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma2three Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 What do you mean? The always curious Jane Collins herself seems to draw a clear comparison... almost everyone in the Capital has an Ancient Roman name (Cinna, Octavia, Flavius, Lavinia are who I remember off the top of my head). And the very name of the country is Panem, which is awfully close to "panem et circenses"... which is basically what the Hunger Games are about. Keeping the Capital fat, happy, and dumb with gruesome shows... while everyone else suffers. I bet you could do a really interesting unit study on the ways that Collins alludes to Rome in the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The previous poster noted Greece or Rome, hence I assumed she was addressing an issue other than gladiators. I've also heard Collins say that the story of the Minotaur and the kids sent to the maze was an inspiration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in CA Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The previous poster noted Greece or Rome, hence I assumed she was addressing an issue other than gladiators. Not the PP, but when I heard the basic plot of HG and that it involved children/youth, my first thought was of Greece -- Theseus and the Minotaur, and the Spartans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirch Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) The previous poster noted Greece or Rome, hence I assumed she was addressing an issue other than gladiators. Well, I'm not so sure about Greece, but the references to Rome are obvious. In addition to the parallels with gladiators (complete with conquered people being forced to fight, albeit with a twist), many of the Capitol's citizens have famous Roman names, and it's not to hard to draw the "bread and circuses" connection either. The decadence of the Capitol's society also reminds me strongly of the late Roman empire. I'm sure there's more, but it's been a while since I read them. ETA: That's a great point in the pp about Greece--I hadn't made that connection. So that aspect echoes Greek mythology, while the format of the games recalls Rome. Edited March 30, 2012 by Kirch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeannpal Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I read it--I despised the book. It took all I had to keep on reading it. I thought it was poorly written and I am just not a fan of dystopia. All that said, I wouldn't have a problem with tweens reading it. My teenage son has not expressed interest in reading it. My best friend loves all the books... I feel the same way. Many of the 5th and 6 th grade students at my school have read the books with their parent's approval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Well, I'm not so sure about Greece, but the references to Rome are obvious. In addition to the parallels with gladiators (complete with conquered people being forced to fight, albeit with a twist), many of the Capitol's citizens have famous Roman names, and it's not to hard to draw the "bread and circuses" connection either. The decadence of the Capitol's society also reminds me strongly of the late Roman empire. I'm sure there's more, but it's been a while since I read them. ETA: That's a great point in the pp about Greece--I hadn't made that connection. So that aspect echoes Greek mythology, while the format of the games recalls Rome. Interesting. Admittedly, when someone says Rome, I think of Cicero, Vergil and Ovid--not gladiators. I should also note that I grew up on a diet of Cold War Dystopian literature and now have no interest in the genre. So those of you with children who are fans of THG? Where to next? Kafka? Huxley? The C.S. Lewis space trilogy? Sci fi classics like Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? Where are you taking your Dystopian studies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle My Bell Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I read the book and didn't care for it but not because of the violence. I can handle that, it was just not that great of a book. The characters are not likeable, the whole tone of the book is just depressing and it seems to be missing something.... I saw the movie with my 17 year old daughter and I felt the same way. She loved it. I don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Panem is the bread and the Hunger Games are the circuses. I just watched a really good interview with the director (who also wrote the movie script with the help of the author). He does a good job talking about the mood and the theme of the book, and the conversations he hopes it will start. This is not supposed to be "fun" reading anymore than Dante's Inferno is supposed to be "fun". It is written simply and clearly, but the ideas and themes are very deep. Without the violence, the reality and truth of her points wouldn't hit as hard. She is not only drawing parallels to Rome, she is trying to get our attention that WE are in danger of becoming Rome.... Anyone wanna go watch American Idol and quit worrying about the economy or what's going on in Somalia??? :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirstenH Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 She is not only drawing parallels to Rome, she is trying to get our attention that WE are in danger of becoming Rome.... Anyone wanna go watch American Idol and quit worrying about the economy or what's going on in Somalia??? :tongue_smilie: Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) . Edited February 11 by SilverMoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I'm glad to hear the book isn't as gory as the movie appears to be. (I think.) Thankyou for all the opinions. I'm digesting them and thinking. Actually, it is my understanding the movie is less gory than the book. No real gore at all in the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Actually, it is my understanding the movie is less gory than the book. No real gore at all in the movie. No - there is some. It happens pretty quickly, right at the start of the games for the most part.... It was hard to watch for me, even though I love the books and movie, because it's kids. But - I do agree the book is far more gory and detailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Knoll Mom Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Actually, it is my understanding the movie is less gory than the book. No real gore at all in the movie. I would disagree. It's not a blood bath, by any means, but there is stabbing and neck breaking--very visual images that could disturb a child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I would disagree. It's not a blood bath, by any means, but there is stabbing and neck breaking--very visual images that could disturb a child. Le me rephrase...no gore in the sense it isn't all bloody and gory...but it does have violence. To me those things are different, if that makes sense. The tv show Bones isn't particularly violent at all...all the killing happens offstage, but it is VERY VERY gory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Honestly? I read all three books over the weekend. They were pretty good. Not awesome, amazing, mind-blowing books, but good. By all means they are better than some other recent YA fiction (coughTWILIGHTcough) :lol: :D I didn't find the violence to be disturbing. When I finished the books, it was a little sad. But the violence and stuff didn't bother me one bit. I do agree, though, that the books are much more descriptive of the violence than the movie shows. I think they did a good job, in the movie, of making the point of all the violence that is going on, without it being gory or over the top. I wouldn't take my kids to it, but they are a lot younger. I don't know what I would do if they were older - I guess it all depends on the kid. :) Note: I'm an action flick person. I've watched the most recent Rambo (No, I don't like Rambo, but someone lent it to us and we decided to watch it), which is the goriest (?) movie I have ever seen. But in general, I have never seen a movie or anything so violent that I had an issue with it. I hate chick flicks, romantic comedies, girl movies, etc. Just so you know where I'm coming from. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisbeth Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Panem is the bread and the Hunger Games are the circuses.I just watched a really good interview with the director (who also wrote the movie script with the help of the author). He does a good job talking about the mood and the theme of the book, and the conversations he hopes it will start. This is not supposed to be "fun" reading anymore than Dante's Inferno is supposed to be "fun". It is written simply and clearly, but the ideas and themes are very deep. Without the violence, the reality and truth of her points wouldn't hit as hard. She is not only drawing parallels to Rome, she is trying to get our attention that WE are in danger of becoming Rome.... Anyone wanna go watch American Idol and quit worrying about the economy or what's going on in Somalia??? :tongue_smilie: Yep. When people enjoy making fun of people with mental issues and no talent on AI, just for "laughs" it is cruelty. Cruelty as entertainment. Not quite Hunger Games level, but still pretty bad. Sports and reality shows and Entertainment tonight, focus on that, nothing to see in the economy or world politics... No worries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirstenH Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Yep. When people enjoy making fun of people with mental issues and no talent on AI, just for "laughs" it is cruelty. Cruelty as entertainment. Not quite Hunger Games level, but still pretty bad. Sports and reality shows and Entertainment tonight, focus on that, nothing to see in the economy or world politics... No worries... Not to mention how spoiled and comfortable we all are compared to (and in many cases at the expense of) the entire rest of the world. (Think sweatshops if you don't catch my drift.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I just finished the trilogy 30 minutes ago. :D Fantastic series with solid, if not brilliant, writing. My daughter and I watched a bit of a Joseph Campbell interview a week or two ago where he talked about the elements of hero myths and The Hunger Games hit every mark. After my daughter's done the series I'm going to have her read The Chrysalids by John Wyndham which is a novel in the same vein but with absolutely brilliant writing and we'll do some comparing and contrasting. It's not a series anyone has to read but beneath and even because of the horror in it it's got a lot of merit and is a great lead-in to greater works like Wyndham's. It certainly puts Twilight to shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 It's not a series anyone has to read but beneath and even because of the horror in it it's got a lot of merit and is a great lead-in to greater works like Wyndham's. :iagree: I personally don't care if some people don't like it. I certainly don't like all books that others rave about. It does bother me if people put down others who do like it, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I felt the parallels to the decadence of Ancient Rome at the height of the civilization and just before its fall were striking. Man's inhumanity to man...extreme narcissism, cruelty for sport, a large populace of people enslaved, frightened for their lives, working to provide exclusively for the spoiled upper classes with no hope of any future and nothing really to lose in rebelling because their lives are already so miserable that death for an ideal is almost preferable to continuing to exist in such a horrific reality. I just saw the movie and felt while looking at District 12, watching the propaganda displayed by the Capitol concerning District 13, Rue's descriptions of District 11, etc. it reminded me an area of Kingston, Jamaica that I visited as a teen...mind boggling poverty, hovels that didn't even constitute shacks, hunger abounding, people with no hope in their eyes scraping together that which would not even constitute a meagre existence in this country, tears streaming down my face as a mother begged me (I was only 17 at the time) to take her baby to America so she wouldn't die. Those images have stayed with me my entire life and District 12 could so easily represent the people in memory. This kind of reading is not for the faint of heart and teens shouldn't read it without context - historical context, moral context, mom and dad context. We are reading them aloud as a family and discussing them each evening. I require my children to read, when they are mature enough, books that tug at the heart, books that stretch the mind, books that force self-examination and the exploration of what it means to have a conscience, to be human, to aspire to a higher ideal than that of only pleasing self. I want them to look for the symbolism, draw out the political themes, the spiritual lessons, the truth of the human condition. I consider The Hunger Games series to be good books for just this. They are not entertaining and should never be viewed as such. As one poster mentioned, one does not read Dante or for that matter, Pilgrim's Progress, or The Lives of the Romans by Plutarch, or books on the Spanish Inquisition and the plague, or The Hiding Place, The Diary of Anne Frank, or the Crusades in order to be entertained. We read them so that we never forget what man is capable of, to hopefully not be doomed to repeat these atrocities, or to never lose sight of the reality that all it takes for evil to abound is for good men/women to do nothing. Some things are worse than fear; some things are worse than death. So we read Beowulf, The Jewish Wars, Dante,...we read the history that precipitated the forming of the Magna Carta and then we read the Magna Carta. We read Harry Potter and discover the parallels drawn to Nazism and eugenics (and I don't consider Harry Potter to be outstanding literature either, just reasonably good), and we hash and rehash how these themes come up again and again, over and over, as man seems - as a herd - unwilling to "see the forest through the trees" so to speak. No matter what, hopefully we make some distinctions and we make some connections to what is happening in our home culture as well as the cultures around the world. It's not incredible literature. It's just one tool in a very large aresenal that can be used to hone our kids reasoning skills about timeless themes. Liberty, the meaning of life and death, family, hope, joy, survival, absolute power,.....Hopefully, this kind of literature makes us think. Of course, it all has to be balanced with inspiring and relaxin reading so one doesn't become morbid...everything in moderation. Now I would like to step off my soapbox and say the following: Whatever crew came up with the costumes for the citizens of Capitol and in particular Effie Trinket, deserves an Oscar! Seriously, in my wildest and most imaginative dreams, I couldn't have come up with those clothes and make-up jobs. It added so much to the visual sensation of the decadence of the Capitol and brought into sharp focus, the abject poverty of the districts. I felt like I had stepped into a modern day Rome! My hats off to the people entrusted with that part of the movie. They deserve accolades! Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacia Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I should also note that I grew up on a diet of Cold War Dystopian literature and now have no interest in the genre. So those of you with children who are fans of THG? Where to next? Kafka? Huxley? The C.S. Lewis space trilogy? Sci fi classics like Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? Where are you taking your Dystopian studies? :iagree: :bigear: As I've stated previously, I'm not a HG fan. (Yes, I know it's dystopian, yada, yada. Like Jane, I grew up on a diet of Cold War dystopian lit & have read my share of it. I don't really consider HG to be in the same category.) Actually, I read a recent article that somewhat mirrors my own feelings on the HG (& all the surrounding circus of it): "The Hunger Games": A Lightweight Twi-pocalypse. Just one choice quote from the article is, "My point is that the patchwork of “The Hunger Games†never really holds together or makes any sense, except as an elementary fairy tale about a young girl’s coming of age and an incipient romantic triangle (which is the focus of the film, far more than the book)." I require my children to read, when they are mature enough, books that tug at the heart, books that stretch the mind, books that force self-examination and the exploration of what it means to have a conscience, to be human, to aspire to a higher ideal than that of only pleasing self. I want them to look for the symbolism, draw out the political themes, the spiritual lessons, the truth of the human condition. I consider The Hunger Games series to be good books for just this. They are not entertaining and should never be viewed as such. I agree. The irony I find is that the 'marketing machine' attached to the HG series (books, movies, merchandise,...) is completely selling it as entertainment (& the masses must seem to agree based on the popularity). Shall I go hang out in my Cold War bomb shelter now in my flame-proof suit? ;):tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgiana Daniels Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Yep. When people enjoy making fun of people with mental issues and no talent on AI, just for "laughs" it is cruelty. Cruelty as entertainment. Not quite Hunger Games level, but still pretty bad. Sports and reality shows and Entertainment tonight, focus on that, nothing to see in the economy or world politics... No worries... Especially when you get into "bounties" on football players. I'm on the last book, and the parallels to Ancient Rome are well done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in CA Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I should also note that I grew up on a diet of Cold War Dystopian literature and now have no interest in the genre. So those of you with children who are fans of THG? Where to next? Kafka? Huxley? The C.S. Lewis space trilogy? Sci fi classics like Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? Where are you taking your Dystopian studies? I have no plans to read HG, but we *are* reading (already planned before I first heard of HG, a few days ago!) several of the books in this article, Five Books You'll Love If You Liked HG (which a friend linked to on Facebook). Fahrenheit 451 is next on the list for my son, and we're listening to The Man Who Was Thursday (mentioned in the first comment). I enjoyed C.S. Lewis's space trilogy, but my son has no interest in reading it. He's currently reading Heart of Darkness with his dad, and read Lord of the Flies recently. We didn't consciously plan to be on a dystopian kick; it just happened as I looked for books that appealed to a 15yo boy. Me, I stick to books written before 1945, pretty exclusively. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GailV Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Now I would like to step off my soapbox and say the following: Whatever crew came up with the costumes for the citizens of Capitol and in particular Effie Trinket, deserves an Oscar! Seriously, in my wildest and most imaginative dreams, I couldn't have come up with those clothes and make-up jobs. It added so much to the visual sensation of the decadence of the Capitol and brought into sharp focus, the abject poverty of the districts. I felt like I had stepped into a modern day Rome! My hats off to the people entrusted with that part of the movie. They deserve accolades! Faith Not to detract from your thoughtful post, but the costuming simply looked like the Superbowl Half Time show to me -- Nicki Minaj, et al, could've wandered onto the set as an extra and blended in quite well. We've already achieved the look of the Capitol insofar as many of our present-day celebrities are concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Not to detract from your thoughtful post, but the costuming simply looked like the Superbowl Half Time show to me -- Nicki Minaj, et al, could've wandered onto the set as an extra and blended in quite well. We've already achieved the look of the Capitol insofar as many of our present-day celebrities are concerned. :lol: I guess this shows how much we DON'T watch T.V. Seriously, we do not have cable, we cannot tune in any station at.all. We aren't t.v. watchers anyway and so I haven't seen a superbowl, an Oscars, or anything else in years! The only thing we do watch is the Daytona 500 and a couple of other NASCAR races. My guess is that NASCAR fans must be rather conservative because I haven't seen anything that extreme during a race...here in the Midwest, the worst we've encountered area few local high schoolers who put in that wash-out dye so their hair is the color of their high school colors for "the big game" and if they are feeling really zany, some very minor face paint. I'm soooooooooooooooooooo behind the times! :D Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) . Edited February 11 by SilverMoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Interesting. 2 of my kids have read The Hunger Games and are moving forward with the series. They saw the movie. I have not had time; I am too busy re-reading books to teach. Ironically, that includes The Giver (utopian) and 1984 (doubleungood dystopian). Oh, and Grapes of Wrath. ;) I'm usually unsettled when people insist that I *hate* OR *love* a work of art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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