Heather in Neverland Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 As I pointed out, this does not offend "my religion" because I do not even consider myself a Christian. It is inappropriate to speak this way because it is disrespectful of many people's religion. You have seen that I'm not the only person who was taught this way, or who is trying to raise kids to not speak this way. I completely understand that many people did not know the origin of these "words." My original point was that if this were a concern of any group other than Christians, there would have been a movement against this by now - as there has been against other words that people previously did not consider inappropriate. As you can see, it does not matter if Christians are hurt by unthinking words and comments. Christians alone need to get over themselves. I have to say that I admire the lengths you go to in order to show respect to a religion that is not even your own. And you are correct, no one seems to care about "oh my god" because it is so common... As if common means ok. Maybe if we got a whole bunch of people to start saying Oh my Allah instead, then that would become socially acceptable too? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 And you in no way refuted my rebuttal to your argument. Just because a tiny fraction of Christians choose to be offended, that doesn't automatically make it offensive. The words *you* used are offensive because they are actually insulting people and ascribing certain characteristics to them. These are totally different issues. Furthermore, I don't get why you are putting this issue under the heading of a Christian issue. Are Christians the only ones who believe in God? No. The only ones who believe in the God of Abraham? No. The only ones who believe in the ten commandments? No. The only ones who are against blasphemy? No. Then, why do you (and others) think saying, "geez" is strictly a Christian issue to begin with? Do you see the disconnect in what you are saying? Umm . . . it is a euphemism for JESUS :001_huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'm not looking for ways to be offended. It says right there in the dictionary what it means. People don't connect the two because they pride themselves more on being well-educated than discerning. OMG, I didn't realize this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 As I pointed out, this does not offend "my religion" because I do not even consider myself a Christian. It is inappropriate to speak this way because it is disrespectful of many people's religion. And "pencil" comes from penis. Languages evolve. Several generations should be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Furthermore, I don't get why you are putting this issue under the heading of a Christian issue. Are Christians the only ones who believe in God? No. The only ones who believe in the God of Abraham? No. The only ones who believe in the ten commandments? No. The only ones who are against blasphemy? No. Then, why do you (and others) think saying, "geez" is strictly a Christian issue to begin with? Because "jeez" = Jesus and it is Christians who consider Jesus to be "God." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureMoms Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 As I pointed out, this does not offend "my religion" because I do not even consider myself a Christian. It is inappropriate to speak this way because it is disrespectful of many people's religion. You have seen that I'm not the only person who was taught this way, or who is trying to raise kids to not speak this way. I completely understand that many people did not know the origin of these "words." My original point was that if this were a concern of any group other than Christians, there would have been a movement against this by now - as there has been against other words that people previously did not consider inappropriate. As you can see, it does not matter if Christians are hurt by unthinking words and comments. Christians alone need to get over themselves. Any movements I have seen against specific words are movements started by the people who are offended by those words. Given that Christians are the VAST majority in this country, I'd think a movement against "gee whiz" would be pretty successful and easy to implement. If the tiny minority of gay people (maybe 2-3% of the US population) can get out the word that we don't like to be called x, y, and z, I bet an organized effort of Christians could get out the message that they don't like "gee". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Umm . . . it is a euphemism for JESUS :001_huh: It was used as a euphemism as one time. Since that time, we've had a hundred years of language shift. It's a simple exclamation to most people, even most Christians, even most conservative Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'm not looking for ways to be offended. It says right there in the dictionary what it means. you're right! i had no idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Because "jeez" = Jesus and it is Christians who consider Jesus to be "God." Sorry, I meant to say why you think saying, "oh my god" is a Christian issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Sorry, I meant to say why you think saying, "oh my god" is a Christian issue. I agree that "oh my god" is not strictly a Christian issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 And "pencil" comes from penis. Languages evolve. Several generations should be enough. really?? lol. i am learning a ton here. i just hope we don't start to share what song lyrics really mean!:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amey311 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 How about "Hello"? What is the origin of that word? It has "hell" in it. I'm dead serious here, I had no idea "gee" was bad and now I'm wondering what other entirely meaningless-to-me syllables have been offending people. FWIW, there was a family in my hometown that answered the phone "Heaven High!" rather than say "Hell-Low" :glare: I'm curious to know what that looked like in regular daily usage. They were also the family that had a thing in their front yard (this wasn't a parsonage or a church, just their front yard) with those moveable letters like you see in front of stores and churches. It was lit at night and read "Jesus paid a debt he didn't owe because we had a debt we couldn't pay." I don't really care about either. I do think the former is quite "micro-managey." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Perhaps the reason this is such news to folks is because those who don't say it or are offended by it don't make a big stink about it ;). I certainly don't give euphemism lessons out in public! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 FWIW, there was a family in my hometown that answered the phone "Heaven High!" rather than say "Hell-Low" :glare: I'm curious to know what that looked like in regular daily usage. They were also the family that had a thing in their front yard (this wasn't a parsonage or a church, just their front yard) with those moveable letters like you see in front of stores and churches. It was lit at night and read "Jesus paid a debt he didn't owe because we had a debt we couldn't pay." I don't really care about either. I do think the former is quite "micro-managey." Oh Wow. Heaven High! Cheesy cheesy cheesy... :lol: :lol: I agree that "oh my god" is not strictly a Christian issue. I guess it would be an issue to any who believe in the 10 commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Wallace Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 People are teasing her because she is so insistent that other adults should not say it. That is different than people mocking her religion. Thank you, Mrs. Mungo -- you said it so much better than I could. I appreciate your making that distinction. Personally, I never realized, for example, that to "welsh" on a bet offended people from Wales, nor that the expression "I got gypped" referred to Gypsies. When I did, I stopped using those expressions so as not to offend. Although I'm surprised at the idea that people are offended by "Jeez," it's fine with me to refrain from using it for the same reasons I stopped using "welsh" and "gypped." However, this is a voluntary choice -- not because Welsh people or Gypsies were insistent that I do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 OMG, I didn't realize this! By discerning I mean not intentionally mocking or hurting others even if their beliefs seem reidiculous to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureMoms Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 FWIW, there was a family in my hometown that answered the phone "Heaven High!" rather than say "Hell-Low" :glare: I'm curious to know what that looked like in regular daily usage. They were also the family that had a thing in their front yard (this wasn't a parsonage or a church, just their front yard) with those moveable letters like you see in front of stores and churches. It was lit at night and read "Jesus paid a debt he didn't owe because we had a debt we couldn't pay." I don't really care about either. I do think the former is quite "micro-managey." I had a (gay) friend once who refused to use the word "straight". It was absurd. When giving directions "no, don't turn left there, go continuously gaily through the light". I'm normally pretty PC, but yes, it can be taken too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 really?? lol. i am learning a ton here. Did you know that the word "bead" meant "prayer" at one time? Its association with the rosary gradually changed its meaning. So, probably particularly pious people won't want to use the word bead anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Perhaps the reason this is such news to folks is because those who don't say it or are offended by it don't make a big stink about it ;). I certainly don't give euphemism lessons out in public! This isn't exactly private.;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 By discerning I mean not intentionally mocking or hurting others even if their beliefs seem reidiculous to you. I meant oh my goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 To tie the language discussion back to the original post, I don't think people's use of OMG or jeez or gosh is evidence of discrimination against Christians. Given that many Christians don't consider the terms offensive and in fact even use them themselves, I don't even think you can issue a blanket statement that people shouldn't use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I meant oh my goodness. Sorry, all exclamations are basically minced swears. So, you'll just have to restrain yourself from saying anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Wallace Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Do you feel the same way about "that's so gay," "jew him down," "I'm such a f'n retard," etc.? I can't speak for Mrs. Mungo, but the expression "gay" meaning "homosexual" has not shifted...well, at all. It still means "gay." It's not even a transformation of the word, as "Jesus" is into "Jeez" or even "Gee." Maybe if the word shifts enough and people start saying things like, "That's so guuh," I'll stop being offended by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Thank you, Mrs. Mungo -- you said it so much better than I could. I appreciate your making that distinction. Personally, I never realized, for example, that to "welsh" on a bet offended people from Wales, nor that the expression "I got gypped" referred to Gypsies. When I did, I stopped using those expressions so as not to offend. Although I'm surprised at the idea that people are offended by "Jeez," it's fine with me to refrain from using it for the same reasons I stopped using "welsh" and "gypped." However, this is a voluntary choice -- not because Welsh people or Gypsies were insistent that I do so. fwiw, i'm 100% welsh and 2nd generation in america. i don't find that phrase offensive, and to my knowledge my family doesn't either. it just means people fled to wales - it isn't about the welsh people themselves...just the english fleeing to wales to escape a debt owed. that was always my understanding anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 So, you have to just restrain yourself from saying anything. Wouldn't that be a breath of fresh air? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajag Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I have to say that I admire the lengths you go to in order to show respect to a religion that is not even your own. And you are correct, no one seems to care about "oh my god" because it is so common... As if common means ok. Maybe if we got a whole bunch of people to start saying Oh my Allah instead, then that would become socially acceptable too? . It probably helps that the Muslim choice for the name of their god is not a generic word for deity. But yeah, about 100 years from now it would not be such a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I can't speak for Mrs. Mungo, but the expression "gay" meaning "homosexual" has not shifted...well, at all. It still means "gay." It's not even a transformation of the word, as "Jesus" is into "Jeez" or even "Gee." Maybe if the word shifts enough and people start saying things like, "That's so guuh," I'll stop being offended by it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original def of 'gay' was happy, so yes, it has shifted to mean something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Sorry, all exclamations are basically minced swears. So, you'll just have to restrain yourself from saying anything. How about this concept: Let your "yes" be "yes" and your "no" be "no"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 To tie the language discussion back to the original post, I don't think people's use of OMG or jeez or gosh is evidence of discrimination against Christians. Given that many Christians don't consider the terms offensive and in fact even use them themselves, I don't even think you can issue a blanket statement that people shouldn't use them. :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 How about this concept: Let your "yes" be "yes" and your "no" be "no"? :confused: I really don't get what this has to do with people yelling, "OW! GEEZ, that hurt!" And meaning nothing other than vocalizing their pain and frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureMoms Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I can't speak for Mrs. Mungo, but the expression "gay" meaning "homosexual" has not shifted...well, at all. It still means "gay." It's not even a transformation of the word, as "Jesus" is into "Jeez" or even "Gee." Maybe if the word shifts enough and people start saying things like, "That's so guuh," I'll stop being offended by it. And those expressions still use the negative stereotypes of the groups mentioned in them (the stereotype that Jews are miserly or Gypsies cheat, for example). I don't really think "Gee" borrows on any negative stereotypes of Christians, but maybe I'm mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I can't speak for Mrs. Mungo, but the expression "gay" meaning "homosexual" has not shifted...well, at all. It still means "gay." It's not even a transformation of the word, as "Jesus" is into "Jeez" or even "Gee." Maybe if the word shifts enough and people start saying things like, "That's so guuh," I'll stop being offended by it. okay...a little OT...but speaking of words. "faggots" are welsh like gross meat things. my grandmother's entire church make faggots and sell them yearly (she's dead now, but the tradition lives strong still). it's announced in the local paper that there is a "churchwide faggot sale". my grandmother would talk about them in public and i would want to hide under a rock and die. no matter how much i explained it, she held firm that was the proper name of the food and could not understand why it would be offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Wouldn't that be a breath of fresh air? I am hurt. :tongue_smilie: But in real life, I don't use the phrase 'oh my god'. I use gee whiz or oh my gosh, or goodness so as not to offend. But I guess I can't win with some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 okay...a little OT...but speaking of words. "faggots" are welsh like gross meat things. my grandmother's entire church make faggots and sell them yearly (she's dead now, but the tradition lives strong still). it's announced in the local paper that there is a "churchwide faggot sale". my grandmother would talk about them in public and i would want to hide under a rock and die. no matter how much i explained it, she held firm that was the proper name of the food and could not understand why it would be offensive. Ok, I was literally :lol: at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Wallace Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 And "pencil" comes from penis. Languages evolve. Several generations should be enough. Wow! I never knew that! You're right. I looked in the richardionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Sorry, all exclamations are basically minced swears. So, you'll just have to restrain yourself from saying anything.A couple years ago I asked the kids for examples of things their father would say as he's leaving the Trader Joe's parking lot (as we were doing so). My eldest responded as expected, but DD the Elder exclaimed, "Pynchon!" Apparently Against the Day had been getting the better of DH. :tongue_smilie: "Pynchon!" is now a family favourite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureMoms Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 okay...a little OT...but speaking of words. "faggots" are welsh like gross meat things. my grandmother's entire church make faggots and sell them yearly (she's dead now, but the tradition lives strong still). it's announced in the local paper that there is a "churchwide faggot sale". my grandmother would talk about them in public and i would want to hide under a rock and die. no matter how much i explained it, she held firm that was the proper name of the food and could not understand why it would be offensive. It isn't, really. Neither is using "faggot" to refer to a piece of dry wood to burn in a fire. It becomes offensive when you use it as a derrogatory term towards a group of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Wallace Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Oh Wow. Heaven High! Cheesy cheesy cheesy... :lol: :lol: Well, and especially since "Hello" doesn't have anything to do with Hell. It has a lot to do with "hail," an Anglo-Saxon greeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 okay...a little OT...but speaking of words. "faggots" are welsh like gross meat things. my grandmother's entire church make faggots and sell them yearly (she's dead now, but the tradition lives strong still). it's announced in the local paper that there is a "churchwide faggot sale". my grandmother would talk about them in public and i would want to hide under a rock and die. no matter how much i explained it, she held firm that was the proper name of the food and could not understand why it would be offensive. It's still not offensive the UK. A fag there is a cigarette. That comes from the same beginning as the meat things-faggots were bundles of wood used for fire. You see the archaic meaning all the time in literature. Linguists aren't sure exactly how it came to have an offensive meaning as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amey311 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Wow! I never knew that! You're right. I looked in the richardionary. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 It isn't, really. Neither is using "faggot" to refer to a piece of dry wood to burn in a fire. It becomes offensive when you use it as a derrogatory term towards a group of people. yes. but in public we aren't carrying around the disclaimer that the old lady is talking about food. all they would hear is the word "faggot". it's not like we were in wales, ykwim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Wallace Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original def of 'gay' was happy, so yes, it has shifted to mean something else. The expression "gay" meaning "homosexual" has not shifted to something else. The expression "gay" meaning "happy" HAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I can't speak for Mrs. Mungo, but the expression "gay" meaning "homosexual" has not shifted...well, at all. It still means "gay." It's not even a transformation of the word, as "Jesus" is into "Jeez" or even "Gee." Maybe if the word shifts enough and people start saying things like, "That's so guuh," I'll stop being offended by it. You must not have teens. they do use "gay" to mean "stupid/foolish". i.e. 'that is so gay' to describe something someone did that was stupid/foolish. espcially on the internet. Homesexual groups have been up in arms over it. then there are those from the Isle of Lesbos off the Greek Coast - they are actually suing, in Greek court, that only authentic Lesbians (iow: those from the Isle of Lesbos) can use "lesbians" to identify themselves in business names, etc., at least in Greece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Wallace Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 okay...a little OT...but speaking of words. "faggots" are welsh like gross meat things. my grandmother's entire church make faggots and sell them yearly (she's dead now, but the tradition lives strong still). it's announced in the local paper that there is a "churchwide faggot sale". my grandmother would talk about them in public and i would want to hide under a rock and die. no matter how much i explained it, she held firm that was the proper name of the food and could not understand why it would be offensive. She should have hung out with my mom, who had no problem with the expression "Indian giver." * *Though she had many areas of expertise, American history was not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 This discussion is fascinating for anyone interested in the etymology of words. I didn't realize most of these and I've always been interested in how words came about. I've always thought OMG was an appeal to a deity, kind of like a more personalized, self-directed God help me. I never thought of it as being using his name in vain. I avoid using it now because I consider myself agnostic and it seems silly to appeal to something I'm not sure I believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 okay...a little OT...but speaking of words. "faggots" are welsh like gross meat things. my grandmother's entire church make faggots and sell them yearly (she's dead now, but the tradition lives strong still). it's announced in the local paper that there is a "churchwide faggot sale". my grandmother would talk about them in public and i would want to hide under a rock and die. no matter how much i explained it, she held firm that was the proper name of the food and could not understand why it would be offensive. I thought a faggot was something you smoked (?) aka a cigarette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 She should have hung out with my mom, who had no problem with the expression "Indian giver." * *Though she had many areas of expertise, American history was not one of them. I think some people are confused by that phrase. They think it derives from white people giving land to the Indians and then taking it back. But, it doesn't. I think that the confusion is one reason it hangs on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I thought a faggot was something you smoked (?) aka a cigarette. In the UK it has that meaning, but not in the US. Pasting my earlier post: It's still not offensive the UK. A fag there is a cigarette. That comes from the same beginning as the meat things-faggots were bundles of wood used for fire. You see the archaic meaning all the time in literature. Linguists aren't sure exactly how it came to have an offensive meaning as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Wallace Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 You must not have teens. they do use "gay" to mean "stupid/foolish". i.e. 'that is so gay' to describe something someone did that was stupid/foolish. espcially on the internet. Homesexual groups have been up in arms over it. then there are those from the Isle of Lesbos off the Greek Coast - they are actually suing, in Greek court, that only authentic Lesbians (iow: those from the Isle of Lesbos) can use "lesbians" to identify themselves in business names, etc., at least in Greece. Yo, I'm a high school teacher. I hear it all the time -- and I don't tolerate it in my class. For the record, if someone were to diss someone else for being Christian, I wouldn't tolerate that either, and for the same reasons. If the expression, "That's so Christ" became a synonym for "stupid/foolish," I would be offended by it, and I'm hardly conventionally religious, and yeah, I would prohibit it in my classroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I am not sure that "discriminated" is the word I would pick. But it is now SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE to openly mock and deride anything to do with Christianity but all other religions are off-limits. :iagree: As only one example—the new network TV show Good Christian B!tches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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