Spinoff question--discrimination against Christians?

[hana]

This is based on a post in the very long current Boy Scout thread. A poster wrote that it is becoming increasingly acceptable to discriminate against Christians. I'm sincerely curious about this. If you believe Christians are increasingly discriminated against, I have two questions.

 

My disclaimer: I do not identify as Christian, though I grew up Baptist.

 

1. Do you really think Christians are less accepted today than 20 or so years ago? As a child, I NEVER heard anyone in my whole K-12 public education environment (teacher or student) say they were Christian. I felt very isolated and would never have felt comfortable talking about being a Christian at school, even at lunch or on the playground. When I got to university, there were Christian organizations on campus, but Christianity was never, that I can recall, mentioned in a classroom. Today, some public schools have after-school or lunch time Bible studies or Christian student organizations. I teach writing at a state university, and students' Christianity is mentioned in some way (by the students) in at least every other class. Except for one vocal atheist a couple years ago, I never hear students mention other religious identities or lack thereof (and we have a good number of Muslim students that I recognize by appearance, not by spoken word).

 

2. How (in what ways) do you see Christians being discriminated against? I think people see it as discrimination, for example, when fair housing laws say landlords have to rent to LGBT individuals. To me, discrimination would be that the LGBT individuals couldn't rent, or that Christians couldn't rent.

 

3. One more: Do you think all religions are being increasingly discriminated against (ie., increased secularism) or that this is a specifically anti-Christian phenomenon?

 

Please, no kerfuffles. :tongue_smilie: I'm just trying to extend my ability to see this from another perspective.

Edited March 10, 2012 by hana

[Joanne]

It might be helpful to think of this question in terms of geography and role. The answers to this depend on whether you are an average Josephine citizen of the USA vs. an evangelistic missionary.

 

I have not *personally* seen any actual situations in which Christians were discriminated against institutionally, legally, or culturally. But I live in Texas where it is assumed that you are a Christian, or at least something close like a Methodist/Presbyterian. ;)

 

You know what, I take that back. I do wonder if my appliation to a certain practicum was not accepted because I come from a Christian graduate school (thinking perhaps they made their decision based on what they expected of a Christian from that organization). I also think that having a Masters from a Christian graduate school/seminary flavored my Ph. D. applications (but still believe lack of research experience was more formative of their decisions to decline.)

Edited March 10, 2012 by Joanne

[SKL]

Yes, I believe that the freedom of speech is often curtailed or attacked when the individual wants to speak about his/her Christian beliefs. Also, it seems to be fair game to joke or sneer about Christianity, when the very same people would consider it terrible to do the exact same thing in reference to, say, Islam or Judaism. People are so proud to say "I have Muslim friends" like it's a badge of tolerance (which would insult me if I were Muslim), but the same people would never be proud to say "I have Christian friends." They would say the latter more as a disclaimer.

 

We have all these word taboos. The R-word, the N-word, gay, Nazi, Jew (in certain contexts), etc. So why do my kids constantly hear "good" adults saying "oh my god" and "jeez" at school and elsewhere? Why is it considered ok to say/write "Jesus F**'ng Christ"? Who would dare to type the "F" word in association with the word "Mohammad"?

 

I am glad that Mohammad Ali had the courage to be open about his Muslim faith, even though in those days, it was not really tolerated. Nowadays things are different for Muslims, and I'm glad. I wish they were better still. But why is Tim Tebow (among others) getting so much flak for being public about his religion? Granted, some would be offended were he Muslim and that public about it, but in that case, the people who pride themselves on being "tolerant" would be taking his side.

 

Recently an openly Catholic college was sued for having too many crosses in view when the Muslim student group had its on-campus meetings. Later I heard that it was not Muslim students who complained, but some outside (non-Muslim) group that looks for any remote excuse to stop Christian speech - even on Christian campuses. I have not heard of similar lawsuits involving the campuses of other faiths.

 

Obviously these are just a few examples.

 

I will also state a disclaimer: I was raised Christian, but I've studied all the major religions and do not strictly believe the teachings of any of them. I have a mind of my own. But I do believe that all religions deserve to be respected. It is not OK to disrespect Christianity on the theory that Christians are the majority so it doesn't matter. Respect matters no matter who you are. If people feel their own religion is freely disrespected, how can they be expected to respect others?

Edited March 10, 2012 by SKL

[J-rap]

Hmmm...interesting question. I guess I don't really think of myself and other Christians as being discriminated against any more than when I was growing up. I, too, remember being in school back in the 70's, and the teachers who I KNEW were strong Christians even back then were not allowed to speak of their faith in school, etc. One teacher did put her foot down when it came to speaking the Lord's name in vain, but that was it.

 

I DO believe that more people are getting bolder about speaking out AGAINST Christianity, however, due to the slow shift away from traditional values and morals and a minority of very outspoken Christians sounding very judgmental.

[Mama Geek]

I think it somewhat depends on where you are now and where you were 20 years ago. My dh and I had much different experiences in public schools. The schools thought there was something wrong with him in early elementary school because he would pray during the day. I grew up mostly in the south in a Christian area. It wasn't the same for me. That was about 20 years ago.

 

A few years ago we both worked for the same large company in different departments. My department had many Christians, we would pray at the Thanksgiving and Christmas parties, people held bible studies at lunch and conversation often focused on Christianity. Dh's department was pretty hostile towards Christians.

 

We both have to be very careful about what we say until we know what the situation is. I know that if I tell my beliefs to the wrong person, that it could cause major problems.

[kalanamak]

Yes, I believe that the freedom of speech is often curtailed or attacked when the individual wants to speak about his/her Christian beliefs. Also, it seems to be fair game to joke or sneer about Christianity, when the very same people would consider it terrible to do the exact same thing in reference to, say, Islam or Judaism.

 

I have worked in a wide variety of situations, on both coasts and in the mid-west, fairly steadily for 37 years. I have yet to detect a bias against anyone but individuals who are behaving in a way that interferes with the day to day morale of the work place. E.g:

 

I went to a Jewish med school. The more Orthodox Jews, who were given preferential schedules (Sat. and holidays off), were ONLY gossiped about and "done no favors" when they combined an attitude of not thanking people for covering, but also bragging about the leisure and good food they had while we did extra shifts. (These fellow Jews complaining, btw.)

 

Other situations where people who take a job that has rotating weekends off, and then start gunning for every Sunday off because their needs are more important (being based on their religious beliefs) than everyone elses.

 

Staff who "bond" with a patient because they share an intense personal investment in religion, and ignore other patients/duties to spend prayer time with this patient. (Become "enmeshed".)

 

Staff who have the hospital pastor over regularly, and hog up meeting rooms with prayer (not on their lunch, either.)

 

In short, people who act selfish because they feel their religious beliefs are so important, the rest of us should work around them, like a river flows around a rock in mid-stream. I have worked with people from all over the world, and of every major religion, and no one minds a nice helpful person who is clearly one religion or another except the occasional sick/bitter person (often night shift!) who is mean to everyone. I have seen a religious person take this as an attack on her religion, but that same sick/bitter person hated blondes and threatened to stab me. (Luckily, this jerk was counting on everyone of his race backing him up, and they didn't, and he was moved.)

[Marylou]

1. Yes.

2. Google Nigeria

3. If you're talking about the U.S. you might want to research The Nones.

 

Here is an article about religion as a "fashion statement". When folks in our culture talk about being "as Christian as you want", it makes the fashion statement sentiment ring true (to me).

[hana]

Good catch--I am specifically thinking of the US. I have no doubt that Christians are discriminated against elsewhere, as are others, depending on location.

[prairiebird]

I don't want to say discrimination. I want to say, less tolerance. And oddly enough, as a Catholic, I often feel that sort of no-tolerance from Protestant Christians along random secular mainstream media. I'm sure other groups might feel the same. But the next time I'm called a canibalistic vampire that worships Mary and cheers for pedophiles by someone claiming to be Christian, it's going to make me wonder where exactly it says in the Bible that only certain 'kinds' of Christianity are okay and some are okay to mock.

[KarenNC]

I agree with Joanne----area of the country matters and size of the city/town/etc matters. The further you get from major metropolitan areas, the more pronounced is the lack of religious diversity and tolerance for it, at least around here.I am in the same place that I was 20 years ago (and 50 years ago, for that matter;)). No, I do not think that Christianity is being discriminated against. I think that some very vocal Christian groups and individuals are reacting very strongly against the reality that they have had to increasingly share the playing field with other groups who aren't content to be invisible. They are not happy to have to have to consider other points of view because it isn't comfortable or easy.

 

It's hard for me to see claims of discrimination when I look around my environment. There is a Christian church on almost every corner. The local mayor campaigned with his campaign signs using a cross instead of the T in his first name and in the town published annual report lists his prayer breakfasts (where he conducts town business) as one of his three great accomplishments of office. The mayor sent out a fundraising request in the town water bills for a group that evangelizes people in Haiti (he did get admonished for that, but he was surprised anyone would have a problem with it--that same group gave him a plaque in a town council meeting I attended). Every town council meeting opens with a specific prayer to Jesus to guide their decisions.

 

The local newspaper features not only the religious advice column from Billy Graham daily (by the comics), but the daily Bible verse and prayer (second page) from The Upper Room, and columns from local ministers about following Jesus "the right way" in 1/3 of the week's papers. The paper lists all the food sales, sermon topics, etc for area Christian churches. There has been a Bible Club or Bible class at area high schools for at least the last 40 years. The town publicly celebrates the major Christian holidays. The majority of stores and other businesses still do not open before noon on Sunday, if they open on Sunday at all. I regularly find proselytizing material in my mailbox, stuck in my fast food take out bag, in library books, left on gas pumps, restaurant tables, public bathrooms, stuffed in my daughter's Halloween bag, stuck on my windshield at the grocery store, etc. This ranges from "come to our church" to Jack Chick tracts. There are church groups evangelizing at the county fair.

[*********]

Yes, I believe Christians are discrimiated against. Which is fine, really, since I don't take issue with discrimination. We all discriminate, don't we? Someone discriminating doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. I guess it really depends on how one acts upon their discrimination.

 

But I *think* you might mean something more than discriminate. I think you mean hated, or persecuted. In which case yes, I also believe Christians (we're speaking about in the US, right?) are hated and persecuted. Of course, not nearly to the degree they are in other countries, but perhaps that's another thread.

 

For example.

 

In the boy scout thread, another poster said:

 

"I believe being against homosexuality is hate."

Now surely that poster, and most others here, know that a LARGE percentage of Christians still hold the belief that homosexuality is a sin, and are therefore 'against' it. So those of us holding that belief are being accused by the poster of being hateful. And I know she's not alone in those beliefs.

 

It does not bother me when Christians are persecuted by those not claiming to be Christians. Jesus himself was so despised for what he taught and believed that he was put to death. Listen to what he tells his followers in Matthew:

 

"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."

 

Christians being persecuted is nothing new. Christians have been persecuted since the birth of Christianity.

 

However, I do feel the need to speak out when Christians are persecuted for believing what Christ taught when those who are doing the persecuting are OTHERS claiming to be Christians. This is something that is repeatedly warned against in the New Testament; others coming in teaching 'another gospel'. Teaching that really, Christ didn't mean those things. Really, it's ok to do whatever feels good, or whatever makes others more comfortabale, or whatever other heresy they're teaching. THOSE are the people true followers of Christ should be concerned about and call out.

 

Just my feelings on the subject.

[Mrs Mungo]

Yes, I believe that the freedom of speech is often curtailed or attacked when the individual wants to speak about his/her Christian beliefs. Also, it seems to be fair game to joke or sneer about Christianity, when the very same people would consider it terrible to do the exact same thing in reference to, say, Islam or Judaism.

 

While I can agree that this is true among some crowds or individuals, I totally disagree that this is generally true in society. I also don't think it is the same as discrimination.

 

We have all these word taboos. The R-word, the N-word, gay, Nazi, Jew (in certain contexts), etc. So why do my kids constantly hear "good" adults saying "oh my god" and "jeez" at school and elsewhere? Why is it considered ok to say/write "Jesus F**'ng Christ"? Who would dare to type the "F" word in association with the word "Mohammad"?

 

I don't think most people connect "geez" with blasphemy.

 

I am glad that Mohammad Ali had the courage to be open about his Muslim faith, even though in those days, it was not really tolerated. Nowadays things are different for Muslims, and I'm glad. I wish they were better still. But why is Tim Tebow (among others) getting so much flak for being public about his religion? Granted, some would be offended were he Muslim and that public about it, but in that case, the people who pride themselves on being "tolerant" would be taking his side.

 

Tebow doesn't get flak for being religious. He gets flak for being flamboyant. Plenty of players pray, thank God, etc without getting flak.

 

I think claiming that teasing a major sports figure for his flamboyant actions is equal to discrimination is the sort of thing that makes Christians look ridiculous.

 

Do Christians in other places face *real* discrimination and persecution? Yes.

[Charles Wallace]

This is based on a post in the very long current Boy Scout thread. A poster wrote that it is becoming increasingly acceptable to discriminate against Christians. I'm sincerely curious about this. If you believe Christians are increasingly discriminated against, I have two questions.

 

My disclaimer: I do not identify as Christian, though I grew up Baptist.

 

1. Do you really think Christians are less accepted today than 20 or so years ago? As a child, I NEVER heard anyone in my whole K-12 public education environment (teacher or student) say they were Christian. I felt very isolated and would never have felt comfortable talking about being a Christian at school, even at lunch or on the playground. When I got to university, there were Christian organizations on campus, but Christianity was never, that I can recall, mentioned in a classroom. Today, some public schools have after-school or lunch time Bible studies or Christian student organizations. I teach writing at a state university, and students' Christianity is mentioned in some way (by the students) in at least every other class. Except for one vocal atheist a couple years ago, I never hear students mention other religious identities or lack thereof (and we have a good number of Muslim students that I recognize by appearance, not by spoken word).

 

 

Absolutely not. I honestly think that in this country, at least, this claim is absurd in every way. From the arguments of those who claim that Christianity is "discriminated against," it's fairly to see that they confuse "discrimination" with the concept of "not everyone agreeing with you."

 

If you doubt it, think about this: What presidential candidate who sincerely expected to be given the nod by his or her political party, would admit to being an atheist? A Goddess-worshipper? Really, look at how the accusation of being a Muslim was used against Obama. (This nonsense sickened even John McCain, to his credit.) People criticize Romney not for being a Christian, but for not being Christian enough, or not being the right kind of Christian -- although thankfully, that nonsense has also died down. Other candidates parade their Christianity as if they were in Tebow's end zone, so no...I don't think "discrimination" is quite the right word.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Charles Wallace

[mamajag]

I don't think Christians are discriminated against. I think they are no longer the de facto religion and it is no longer instantaneous social and professional suicide to not be Christian. It isn't discrimination to take religious displays out of government buildings. The Christians I know who claim persecution say that they are no longer free to talk about their religion, but really their idea of talking about it is trying to get a conversion or trying to legislate their religion regardless of the Constitution's position on the matter. I don't think they understand exactly what discrimination or persecution is, to be honest. Being on a level playing field with the other religions does not mean you are disenfranchised.

[mytwomonkeys]

i've never seen true discrimination against christians. but i do believe people can be very tolerant of many things except christians. for example, i personally have a YE creationist POV and have been made to feel as if i were in an intellectual cul de sac for believing something so ignorant. i've also been questioned about my ridiculous beliefs regarding no sex before marriage...heck, some of my closest friends thought i was divorce bound for marrying a man i'd never had sex with previously. these situations, imo, certainly don't exude a "c'est la vie" attitude, ykwim?

[Charles Wallace]

I agree with Joanne----area of the country matters and size of the city/town/etc matters. The further you get from major metropolitan areas, the more pronounced is the lack of religious diversity and tolerance for it, at least around here.I am in the same place that I was 20 years ago (and 50 years ago, for that matter;)). No, I do not think that Christianity is being discriminated against. I think that some very vocal Christian groups and individuals are reacting very strongly against the reality that they have had to increasingly share the playing field with other groups who aren't content to be invisible. They are not happy to have to have to consider other points of view because it isn't comfortable or easy.

 

 

Oh, you said it so much better than I did.

[Charles Wallace]

 

 

Tebow doesn't get flak for being religious. He gets flak for being flamboyant. Plenty of players pray, thank God, etc without getting flak. .

 

Tebow apparently didn't read Matthew 6:17-18 -- that part about worship being more sincere if it's done in private, not as a public display of your godliness.

 

I would object to Tebow's self-aggrandizing displays, for the record, regardless of his religion. If he were to jump into the end zone and drop a bow in the direction of Mecca, I would find it objectionable. If he were to light an end zone fire to Zoroaster in thanks for his touchdown, I would find it objectionable. If he were to strip skyclad in the end zone to thank the Great Goddess for his touchdown, I would find it objectionable.

[Murmer]

I think another piece of this puzzle is that while I do believe that discrimination, in particular curtailing of freedom of speech under the auspices of separation of church and state, is occuring. I think that being Christian still has a privilege related to its long standing history especially in the US. So for many non-Christians its hard to talk about Christian discrimination because many things are still based on the Judeo-Christian tradition of old when there are others, including but not limited to religions, that are experiencing major issues including injury and death as the direct result of discrimination (GLBT suicide as the result of bullying comes immediately to mind, or the black boy that was shot close to his gated white community home by the community watch leader who has not even had charges placed against him). Yes, it is harder to be Christian now and there are many who are prejudice and discriminatory to Christians but many Christians in many areas still have many privileges merely from being Christian in America.

[LisaKinVA]

Yes. People are being fired from their jobs...among other things.

 

Professor fired for *explaining* Catholic position on homosexuality in a class ON Catholicism.

Fired from job...for personal beliefs/work done/espoused outside of job.

 

Student suspended for beliefs

 

These are not necessarily recent incidents, or even the best articles, but they do seem to be happening more frequently. I don't know if it's more frequent than discrimination against GLBT, or minorities, or women...or ________, but yes, it does happen.

[Joanne]

However, I do feel the need to speak out when Christians are persecuted for believing what Christ taught when those who are doing the persecuting are OTHERS claiming to be Christians. This is something that is repeatedly warned against in the New Testament; others coming in teaching 'another gospel'. Teaching that really, Christ didn't mean those things. Really, it's ok to do whatever feels good, or whatever makes others more comfortabale, or whatever other heresy they're teaching. THOSE are the people true followers of Christ should be concerned about and call out.

Just my feelings on the subject.

 

How is stating that I believe holding a belief that homosexuality is sin = hateful or that holding a belief against homosexuality = hate discrimination? How is it persectution? If disagreement on a forum is persecution, I've been persecuted for years.

 

The the italics of the quote above are a perfect example of a lot of problems people have with exclusive minded, conservative, scripted, narrow Chritianity.

[DawnM]

:agree: with all you said.

 

I got ribbed for being a Christian. It was never what *I* considered discrimination, but maybe some would take it that way.

 

But those same people who gave me some grief were the very ones who came to me privately when they had a problem and asked for me to pray for them.

 

Dawn

 

While I can agree that this is true among some crowds or individuals, I totally disagree that this is generally true in society. I also don't think it is the same as discrimination.

 

 

 

I don't think most people connect "geez" with blasphemy.

 

 

 

Tebow doesn't get flak for being religious. He gets flak for being flamboyant. Plenty of players pray, thank God, etc without getting flak.

 

I think claiming that teasing a major sports figure for his flamboyant actions is equal to discrimination is the sort of thing that makes Christians look ridiculous.

 

Do Christians in other places face *real* discrimination and persecution? Yes.

[mamajag]

In the boy scout thread, another poster said:

 

"I believe being against homosexuality is hate."

Now surely that poster, and most others here, know that a LARGE percentage of Christians still hold the belief that homosexuality is a sin, and are therefore 'against' it. So those of us holding that belief are being accused by the poster of being hateful. And I know she's not alone in those beliefs.

 

I don't think that believing homosexuality to be a sin and wrong in the eyes of your religion is hate. That's fine with me, and if you say that, I can accept it and will defend your right to do so. It's when Christians go further into the unnatural, self destructive, and promiscuous stereotype and then try to deny people equal rights from the government based on religious beliefs that I call it hate and discriminatory. When they go further into the sanctity of marriage bit, it's even more offensive given the state of marriage even in strongly Christian culture.

 

Marriage is a secular government entity now. It's called marriage no matter what religion you do or do not follow. Christians put the word for the sacrament in the blank on a secular relationship status, and now it's been taken over. The horse is out of the barn. Religions can refuse to recognize marriages they don't find to be in line with their beliefs, but it has never been appropriate Constitutionally to deny marriage based on gender.

[Mergath]

I don't think Christians are discriminated against. I think they are no longer the de facto religion and it is no longer instantaneous social and professional suicide to not be Christian. It isn't discrimination to take religious displays out of government buildings. The Christians I know who claim persecution say that they are no longer free to talk about their religion, but really their idea of talking about it is trying to get a conversion or trying to legislate their religion regardless of the Constitution's position on the matter. I don't think they understand exactly what discrimination or persecution is, to be honest. Being on a level playing field with the other religions does not mean you are disenfranchised.

 

:iagree: Some of them are confusing discrimination with equality.

[Charles Wallace]

Yes. People are being fired from their jobs...among other things.

 

Professor fired for *explaining* Catholic position on homosexuality in a class ON Catholicism.

Fired from job...for personal beliefs/work done/espoused outside of job.

 

Student suspended for beliefs

 

These are not necessarily recent incidents, or even the best articles, but they do seem to be happening more frequently. I don't know if it's more frequent than discrimination against GLBT, or minorities, or women...or ________, but yes, it does happen.

 

 

...you forgot to add that they're being reinstated to those jobs:

 

Dr. Kenneth Howell reinstated:

http://the-american-catholic.com/2010/07/29/victory-dr-ken-howell-reinstated-at-the-university-of-illinois/

 

...and the suspension of the student reduced:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/09/teens-suspension-reduced-after-anti-gay-remark.html

 

And for the record, at least based on the limited data I do have, I think the suspension should have been entirely eliminated and the Cisco firing appears to be unjust as well, at least in my opinion. What I'm seeing is that Christian people are expressing their beliefs that homosexuality is wrong. Others find the comments objectionable and react. Then, there are reactions against the reactions. This is not discrimination, frankly. This is what happens in a democracy where, at this point in history, being in favor of homosexuality (or at least having no problem with it) is no longer a view that people are wise to keep hidden -- and keep hidden because of actual laws on the books against homosexuality (some of which still exist, by the way) or because of fear of being taken out, Matthew Shephard-style. In short, welcome to what free speech actually means: that people will disagree with you.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Charles Wallace

[*********]

How is stating that I believe holding a belief that homosexuality is sin = hateful or that holding a belief against homosexuality = hate discrimination? How is it persectution? If disagreement on a forum is persecution, I've been persecuted for years.

 

The the italics of the quote above are a perfect example of a lot of problems people have with exclusive minded, conservative, scripted, narrow Chritianity.

 

Joanne, the fact that you say that being 'against' homosexuality is hate goes directly against what the Bible teaches. Call it 'exclusive minded' call it 'conservative' call it whatever you want, it doesn't change the fact that the Bible teaches that homosexuality is a sin.

 

When someone claims to be a Christian, but then openly accuses the teachings of Christ as being hate, well I take issue with that. Yes, it is persecution when someone says I am hateful for believeing what Christ taught. But that doesn't mean I'm sad, or feel put upon, or whatever else one may bring to mind when I say I am being persecuted. It simply means you are saying something about me that is untrue. I am not hateful because I believe homosexuality is a sin.

 

Now if you want to get into a debate about whether Christ actually taught that homosexuality is a sin or not, perhaps you'd like to start another thread.

[Ellie]

1. Do you really think Christians are less accepted today than 20 or so years ago?

yes.

 

 

2. How (in what ways) do you see Christians being discriminated against?

In some ways it's very subtle: "Holiday [cards, gifts, etc.] instead of Christmas trees, Christmas cards, Christmas parties. (A big shopping center here in town puts up a "Community Tree." Really? :glare:) Being fired or reprimanded for saying, "Have a blessed day." Christmas carols not sung in schools, football players mocked for praying before a game. In some ways it's more obvious: students not being allowed to pray at high school graduations, the White House not holding its annual day of prayer, people being fined for having Bible studies in their homes, employers being forced to provide health care "services" which violate their religious beliefs.

 

 

3. One more: Do you think all religions are being increasingly discriminated against (ie., increased secularism) or that this is a specifically anti-Christian phenomenon?

Specifically anti-Christian. People (and government) bend over backwards to allow others to take off religious holidays or to serve foods allowed by certain religions, while systematically working to remove Christian symbols from the public view (how many cities have prohibited Nativity scenes at Christmas? San Jose, Calif, doesn't allow a Nativity at its Christmas in the Park event, but has erected a permanent statue to a Mexican god.)

[NicAnn]

:iagree: Some of them are confusing discrimination with equality.

 

Yes, I agree with that.

 

Now I will say that my particular religion is is regularly discriminated against, to the point of imprisonment in other countries. In the US it's mostly not being allowed in Christian groups or homeschool activities.

 

Overall though, no, I don't think Christians are discriminated against in this country.

[kalanamak]

persecuted. It simply means you are saying something about me that is untrue.

 

What dictionary defines persecute this way?

[Mergath]

yes.

 

 

 

Being fired or reprimanded for saying, "Have a blessed day."

 

 

 

Link?

[Joanne]

Joanne, the fact that you say that being 'against' homosexuality is hate goes directly against what the Bible teaches. Call it 'exclusive minded' call it 'conservative' call it whatever you want, it doesn't change the fact that the Bible teaches that homosexuality is a sin.

 

When someone claims to be a Christian, but then openly accuses the teachings of Christ as being hate, well I take issue with that. Yes, it is persecution when someone says I am hateful for believeing what Christ taught.

 

On the bold: No, it is not. It's still not persectution or discrimination.

 

The irony is striking, though. Sexual minorities face persecution and discrimination (sometimes daily) over this issue but YOU would like to frame my posts as being persecution or discrimination?

 

Finally, not everyone who is Christian believes 1) Jesus taught against it and 2) not agreeing that homosexuality is a sin "goes against the bible".

[Heather in Neverland]

Yes, I believe that the freedom of speech is often curtailed or attacked when the individual wants to speak about his/her Christian beliefs. Also, it seems to be fair game to joke or sneer about Christianity, when the very same people would consider it terrible to do the exact same thing in reference to, say, Islam or Judaism. People are so proud to say "I have Muslim friends" like it's a badge of tolerance (which would insult me if I were Muslim), but the same people would never be proud to say "I have Christian friends." They would say the latter more as a disclaimer.

 

We have all these word taboos. The R-word, the N-word, gay, Nazi, Jew (in certain contexts), etc. So why do my kids constantly hear "good" adults saying "oh my god" and "jeez" at school and elsewhere? Why is it considered ok to say/write "Jesus F**'ng Christ"? Who would dare to type the "F" word in association with the word "Mohammad"?

 

I am glad that Mohammad Ali had the courage to be open about his Muslim faith, even though in those days, it was not really tolerated. Nowadays things are different for Muslims, and I'm glad. I wish they were better still. But why is Tim Tebow (among others) getting so much flak for being public about his religion? Granted, some would be offended were he Muslim and that public about it, but in that case, the people who pride themselves on being "tolerant" would be taking his side.

 

Recently an openly Catholic college was sued for having too many crosses in view when the Muslim student group had its on-campus meetings. Later I heard that it was not Muslim students who complained, but some outside (non-Muslim) group that looks for any remote excuse to stop Christian speech - even on Christian campuses. I have not heard of similar lawsuits involving the campuses of other faiths.

 

Obviously these are just a few examples.

 

I will also state a disclaimer: I was raised Christian, but I've studied all the major religions and do not strictly believe the teachings of any of them. I have a mind of my own. But I do believe that all religions deserve to be respected. It is not OK to disrespect Christianity on the theory that Christians are the majority so it doesn't matter. Respect matters no matter who you are. If people feel their own religion is freely disrespected, how can they be expected to respect others?

 

:iagree: with the above.

 

I am not sure that "discriminated" is the word I would pick. But it is now SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE to openly mock and deride anything to do with Christianity but all other religions are off-limits.

 

Yes, there are those who make fun of Muslims or Jews but it is not considered socially acceptable to do so. People who do that are considered to be bigots, hate-mongers, etc.

 

But anyone can make fun of anything remotely related to Christianity and get away with it under the free speech banner.

 

Is that what you mean by discrimination?

 

.

[SKL]

We can admit that Christians face discrimination in this country EVEN THOUGH it is less discrimination than some other groups face; and even though some Christians also discriminate against other groups.

 

Unless the question is about "relative" discrimination.

 

So for a parallel, are Hispanics discriminated against in the USA? No, because blacks face worse discrimination, and Hispanics often discriminate against blacks. Right?

 

I personally don't proselytize on the street corners. Far from it. But I respect others' right to do so, regardless of their religion.

 

I feel tolerance of Christianity would increase if Christians would exhibit more tolerance of other faiths. However, that does not mean Christians are not subjected to discrimination or intolerance. Nor does it mean such intolerance is always "deserved." (I think some of it is, though, frankly.)

 

Finally, yes, "jeez" (or "geez" which we all know is short for "Jesus") is insensitive. The fact that lots of people don't see it that way doesn't make it irrelevant to those who do. The N-word didn't raise an eyebrow in many communites until relatively recently, either. So know that when you say "OMG" or "jeez" or whatever variant, that is insensitive to those of us who believe ALL religions deserve respect. If you could not care less about that, well, that is a choice you make.

[Whereneverever]

Whatever.

Edited March 10, 2012 by theretohere

[Impish]

Part of the kerfuffle in Alberta at the moment w/the new education bill is that hs'ers have been told that teaching certain religious beliefs = discrimination, and therefore will not be allowed.

 

The specific example cited was that nobody, hs'ers included, are allowed to teach homosexuality is a sin.

 

To me, that *is* discrimination against ppl whose faith says otherwise. And, it's not just a Christian belief either. From what I understand, many religions are not ok w/homosexuality (I could be misunderstanding, I'm sure someone will correct me if I am)

 

My question that I posed to government officials is, what else am I not allowed to teach my children is a sin? Lying? Adultery? Stealing? Or is it just this one specific thing?

 

And since all sins are equal, I don't understand why one is being singled out as being 'hate' any more than anything else. On either side of the fence.

[AdventureMoms]

Can I throw in a couple of definitions?

 

From Merriam Webster

 

Discrimination:

a : the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually b : prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment

 

Persecute:

: to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief

 

 

Disagreeing with someone's stance is not discrimination or persecution.

[Joanne]

Finally, yes, "jeez" (or "geez" which we all know is short for "Jesus") is insensitive. The fact that lots of people don't see it that way doesn't make it irrelevant to those who do. The N-word didn't raise an eyebrow in many communites until relatively recently, either. So know that when you say "OMG" or "jeez" or whatever variant, that is insensitive to those of us who believe ALL religions deserve respect. If you could not care less about that, well, that is a choice you make.

 

In one month, I will be 46 years old. I guess I could be considered highly educated. I didn't know until I was well into adulthood that "Oh my God" is considered against the 10 Commandments by some Christians.

 

Likewise, I didn't know until this thread that Geez is insenstive or even a reference to Jesus Christ.

 

I was born and raised in the Christian church, and, except for a departure from late teens until 30, have attended a Christian church.

[NanceXToo]

I don't think Christians are discriminated against. I think they are no longer the de facto religion and it is no longer instantaneous social and professional suicide to not be Christian. It isn't discrimination to take religious displays out of government buildings. The Christians I know who claim persecution say that they are no longer free to talk about their religion, but really their idea of talking about it is trying to get a conversion or trying to legislate their religion regardless of the Constitution's position on the matter. I don't think they understand exactly what discrimination or persecution is, to be honest. Being on a level playing field with the other religions does not mean you are disenfranchised.

 

:iagree:

[AdventureMoms]

To answer the question, I do think there are occasional isolated events of discrimination against Christians in the US. However, I do not think that Christians are in general discriminated against in the US. I do not think it is a common problem. Of the examples that previous posters have listed, maybe 1 in 10 seem like discrimination to me. The rest strike me as "losing special privileges that Christianity used to have". Things like holiday cards or community trees don't even come remotely close to discrimination against Christians unless someone is passing a law forbidding Christians from calling their own trees Christmas trees. If that is the case, then I'd be interested in hearing about it. Renaming a tree that is presumably meant to be shared by the community a community tree is an attempt to include others. Christians can still be a part of that community.

[SKL]

The specific example cited was that nobody, hs'ers included, are allowed to teach homosexuality is a sin.

 

To me, that *is* discrimination against ppl whose faith says otherwise. And, it's not just a Christian belief either. From what I understand, many religions are not ok w/homosexuality (I could be misunderstanding, I'm sure someone will correct me if I am)

 

 

 

Wow. The government is telling parents that they are not allowed to teach religious teachings to their own children?

 

And you are right, other religions consider homosexuality a sin as well.

 

My parochial school taught that it was a sin to pray to Mary or the saints or anyone but the triune God. Agree or disagree, but this is a mater of parental discretion in my opinion.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

 

In some ways it's very subtle: "Holiday [cards, gifts, etc.] instead of Christmas trees, Christmas cards, Christmas parties. (A big shopping center here in town puts up a "Community Tree." Really? :glare:)

 

Recognizing that there are holidays other than Christmas at that time of year is discrimination? You actually believe that? How sad. This is a perfect example of what someone else mentioned above - you are unable to differentiate between discrimination and equality.

 

 

Being fired or reprimanded for saying, "Have a blessed day."

Christmas carols not sung in schools, football players mocked for praying before a game. In some ways it's more obvious: students not being allowed to pray at high school graduations, the White House not holding its annual day of prayer, people being fined for having Bible studies in their homes, employers being forced to provide health care "services" which violate their religious beliefs.

 

So basically, what you are saying is that you believe not being able to force others to participate in your religious practices = discrimination. Why *should* the White House hold a ceremony for an annual day of prayer? (FYI - the proclamation declaring a national day of prayer was still issued by the Obama administration. They simply chose not to hold a special event for it.)

I believe you also know the real story behind the fines for the Bible studies in private homes, but for whatever reason have chosen to misrepresent the situation.

 

 

Specifically anti-Christian. People (and government) bend over backwards to allow others to take off religious holidays or to serve foods allowed by certain religions, while systematically working to remove Christian symbols from the public view (how many cities have prohibited Nativity scenes at Christmas? San Jose, Calif, doesn't allow a Nativity at its Christmas in the Park event, but has erected a permanent statue to a Mexican god.)

 

Wait, wait, wait. How is allowing others to celebrate their religion by taking days off of work (isn't Christmas a national holiday?) discriminating against Christians? What Christian symbols paid for by private funds on private property have been removed from public view? Why should Christian symbols be placed on public property or paid for by public funds? I won't comment specifically on the "Mexican god" situation as I suspect there is a bit more to the story.

[SKL]

Likewise, I didn't know until this thread that Geez is insenstive or even a reference to Jesus Christ.

 

 

OK, but when you think about it, what else could it mean?

 

Is it really different from, for example, "that's so gay" (which was a common saying when I was a teen), or "that's retarded"?

 

I was raised hearing "jew them down" all the time, but once I realized it was insulting to Jews, I tried to be very careful to not let it slip from my lips.

 

I guess this is a hot button for me because my kids have been bringing "oh my god" home from school and I'm in a position of having to punish them for saying what their teachers are spouting freely all day long. If I dare to talk to the teachers about it, I will be immediately seen as "that crazy Christian zealot" even though I'm not actually Christian. I just hate the disrespect and won't allow it in my family.

[hana]

In the OP, I had no intentional definition for "discrimination"--I believe I was using the word used in the other thread. Reflecting on it, though, I guess I mean actual acts (not just thoughts, ie., prejudice) in which a person or group is separated out for unfair treatment.

 

Ellie, has anything different happened for the upcoming 2012 National Day of Prayer? Here's last year's proclamation: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/04/29/presidential-proclamation-national-day-prayer

[Melinda in VT]

Specifically anti-Christian. People (and government) bend over backwards to allow others to take off religious holidays or to serve foods allowed by certain religions, while systematically working to remove Christian symbols from the public view (how many cities have prohibited Nativity scenes at Christmas?San Jose, Calif, doesn't allow a Nativity at its Christmas in the Park event, but has erected a permanent statue to a Mexican god.)

 

I don't know anything about the example you give in your last sentence. I'd have to read more to have an opinion.

 

Your first sentence, though, is trying to juxtapose non-equivalent situations.

 

First, taking time off work. Do you have examples of people of other religions being allowed to take time off for their religious holidays while Christians are not granted that privilege? I know at my extremely large corporate employer, Christmas is the only religious holiday that is a site holiday at the U.S. offices. My Jewish boss has to use personal choice holidays for his religious holidays, but he is forced to take Christmas as a holiday, whether that's when he would like to take time off or not. I, on the other hand, get my religious holiday as forced time off.

 

Second, prohibiting the display of religious symbols on public land is not the same thing as prohibiting the display of religious from public view. I still see plenty of steeples and nativities on church lands and private property, even here in relatively heathen Vermont. ;)

 

There may be real cases of Christians being discriminated against in this country. Undoubtedly there are, just due to sheer numbers. But it makes it very difficult to take claims of persecution seriously when Christians compare ability to practice one's religion and ability to have the government display the symbols of one's religion.

[Mrs Mungo]

We can admit that Christians face discrimination in this country EVEN THOUGH it is less discrimination than some other groups face; and even though some Christians also discriminate against other groups.

 

Unless the question is about "relative" discrimination.

 

So for a parallel, are Hispanics discriminated against in the USA? No, because blacks face worse discrimination, and Hispanics often discriminate against blacks. Right?

 

I personally don't proselytize on the street corners. Far from it. But I respect others' right to do so, regardless of their religion.

 

I feel tolerance of Christianity would increase if Christians would exhibit more tolerance of other faiths. However, that does not mean Christians are not subjected to discrimination or intolerance. Nor does it mean such intolerance is always "deserved." (I think some of it is, though, frankly.)

 

Finally, yes, "jeez" (or "geez" which we all know is short for "Jesus") is insensitive. The fact that lots of people don't see it that way doesn't make it irrelevant to those who do. The N-word didn't raise an eyebrow in many communites until relatively recently, either. So know that when you say "OMG" or "jeez" or whatever variant, that is insensitive to those of us who believe ALL religions deserve respect. If you could not care less about that, well, that is a choice you make.

 

OK, but when you think about it, what else could it mean?

 

Is it really different from, for example, "that's so gay" (which was a common saying when I was a teen), or "that's retarded"?

 

I was raised hearing "jew them down" all the time, but once I realized it was insulting to Jews, I tried to be very careful to not let it slip from my lips.

 

I guess this is a hot button for me because my kids have been bringing "oh my god" home from school and I'm in a position of having to punish them for saying what their teachers are spouting freely all day long. If I dare to talk to the teachers about it, I will be immediately seen as "that crazy Christian zealot" even though I'm not actually Christian. I just hate the disrespect and won't allow it in my family.

 

Saying, "geez" is a meaningless exclamation. Saying, "Jew them down" is an insult implying that Jewish people are cheap. You seriously cannot see the difference?

 

I do believe all religions deserve respect. I am a Christian. I could not care less if people say, "geez."

[Ohdanigirl]

.

 

I DO believe that more people are getting bolder about speaking out AGAINST Christianity, however, due to the slow shift away from traditional values and morals and a minority of very outspoken Christians sounding very judgmental.

 

:iagree:

 

I think it goes both ways. I think some Christians have become more out spoken and visible. Unfortunately, some have even come off as judgmental. holier than thou, etc. I think this has left a bad taste in some people's mouths.

 

On the other side of the coin there are people who think it is Ok to sneer, laugh at, and criticize people for their faith and moral choices. This in no way is OK.

 

Danielle

[Ellie]

Recognizing that there are holidays other than Christmas at that time of year is discrimination? You actually believe that? How sad. This is a perfect example of what someone else mentioned above - you are unable to differentiate between discrimination and equality.

I'm pretty sure that isn't what I said. Which other religious group decorates a tree, puts gifts around it, and opens the gifts on December 25, the day that Christians have long recognized as the birth of the Savior? Why would Jews or Muslims (or any other religious group) care that the shopping center put up a Christmas tree? If the shopping center also wants to do a Hannaka (sorry--I know that's misspelled) event, that would be fine, but how is disguising Christmas as a community event in general not discrimination?

 

So basically, what you are saying is that you believe not being able to force others to participate in your religious practices = discrimination. Why *should* the White House hold a ceremony for an annual day of prayer? (FYI - the proclamation declaring a national day of prayer was still issued by the Obama administration. They simply chose not to hold a special event for it.)

I'm pretty sure I didn't say that, either. There has historically been a day of prayer at the White House for many, many years. No one except this Administration has had a problem with it.

 

I believe you also know the real story behind the fines for the Bible studies in private homes, but for whatever reason have chosen to misrepresent the situation.

Yes, I do. And no, I don't think I've misrepresented it.

 

 

Wait, wait, wait. How is allowing others to celebrate their religion by taking days off of work (isn't Christmas a national holiday?) discriminating against Christians? What Christian symbols paid for by private funds on private property have been removed from public view? Why should Christian symbols be placed on public property or paid for by public funds? I won't comment specifically on the "Mexican god" situation as I suspect there is a bit more to the story.

Yet again, I'm pretty sure I didn't say that. Since you don't live in San Jose, you're unaware of the whole thing that happened there (I didn't say the Nativity was removed from private property. It was removed from a Christmas in the Park event, held in the middle of downtown San Jose, which had been held every year for many years). I won't try to enlighten you. What's wrong with Christian symbols being placed on public property when the history of our country is full of Christian symbols? When most people in the country self-identify as Christians? When it was taxes paid by Christians which paid for not only the Christian symbol but also the property it was placed on?

 

I answer your questions without hostility or sarcasm, truly trying to answer what you asked. Discrimination takes many forms, including comments like yours, which almost ignore what was actually said and put a weird spin on the original comments.

 

Have a nice day. I'm finished.

[Joanne]

OK, but when you think about it, what else could it mean?

 

Is it really different from, for example, "that's so gay" (which was a common saying when I was a teen), or "that's retarded"?

 

I was raised hearing "jew them down" all the time, but once I realized it was insulting to Jews, I tried to be very careful to not let it slip from my lips.

 

I guess this is a hot button for me because my kids have been bringing "oh my god" home from school and I'm in a position of having to punish them for saying what their teachers are spouting freely all day long. If I dare to talk to the teachers about it, I will be immediately seen as "that crazy Christian zealot" even though I'm not actually Christian. I just hate the disrespect and won't allow it in my family.

 

I can't agree about punishing your kids. ;) In any case, "that's so gay" and various uses of retarded are VERY common today in the under 20 crowd; I am against them.

 

I just never associated "geez" with Jesus, and even if I did, I don't see the problem.

[PeacefulChaos]

Yes, I believe that the freedom of speech is often curtailed or attacked when the individual wants to speak about his/her Christian beliefs. Also, it seems to be fair game to joke or sneer about Christianity, when the very same people would consider it terrible to do the exact same thing in reference to, say, Islam or Judaism. People are so proud to say "I have Muslim friends" like it's a badge of tolerance (which would insult me if I were Muslim), but the same people would never be proud to say "I have Christian friends." They would say the latter more as a disclaimer.

 

We have all these word taboos. The R-word, the N-word, gay, Nazi, Jew (in certain contexts), etc. So why do my kids constantly hear "good" adults saying "oh my god" and "jeez" at school and elsewhere? Why is it considered ok to say/write "Jesus F**'ng Christ"? Who would dare to type the "F" word in association with the word "Mohammad"?

 

I am glad that Mohammad Ali had the courage to be open about his Muslim faith, even though in those days, it was not really tolerated. Nowadays things are different for Muslims, and I'm glad. I wish they were better still. But why is Tim Tebow (among others) getting so much flak for being public about his religion? Granted, some would be offended were he Muslim and that public about it, but in that case, the people who pride themselves on being "tolerant" would be taking his side.

 

Recently an openly Catholic college was sued for having too many crosses in view when the Muslim student group had its on-campus meetings. Later I heard that it was not Muslim students who complained, but some outside (non-Muslim) group that looks for any remote excuse to stop Christian speech - even on Christian campuses. I have not heard of similar lawsuits involving the campuses of other faiths.

 

Obviously these are just a few examples.

 

I will also state a disclaimer: I was raised Christian, but I've studied all the major religions and do not strictly believe the teachings of any of them. I have a mind of my own. But I do believe that all religions deserve to be respected. It is not OK to disrespect Christianity on the theory that Christians are the majority so it doesn't matter. Respect matters no matter who you are. If people feel their own religion is freely disrespected, how can they be expected to respect others?

:iagree:

Hmmm...interesting question. I guess I don't really think of myself and other Christians as being discriminated against any more than when I was growing up. I, too, remember being in school back in the 70's, and the teachers who I KNEW were strong Christians even back then were not allowed to speak of their faith in school, etc. One teacher did put her foot down when it came to speaking the Lord's name in vain, but that was it.

 

I DO believe that more people are getting bolder about speaking out AGAINST Christianity, however, due to the slow shift away from traditional values and morals and a minority of very outspoken Christians sounding very judgmental.

I do find it annoying that it SEEMS like a lot of times, if a Christian is quoted or shown on something, they are crazy. Like, literally, the really nutty Christians who are not like 98% of us. :blink:

i've never seen true discrimination against christians. but i do believe people can be very tolerant of many things except christians. for example, i personally have a YE creationist POV and have been made to feel as if i were in an intellectual cul de sac for believing something so ignorant. i've also been questioned about my ridiculous beliefs regarding no sex before marriage...heck, some of my closest friends thought i was divorce bound for marrying a man i'd never had sex with previously. these situations, imo, certainly don't exude a "c'est la vie" attitude, ykwim?

:iagree:

:iagree: with the above.

 

I am not sure that "discriminated" is the word I would pick. But it is now SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE to openly mock and deride anything to do with Christianity but all other religions are off-limits.

 

Yes, there are those who make fun of Muslims or Jews but it is not considered socially acceptable to do so. People who do that are considered to be bigots, hate-mongers, etc.

 

But anyone can make fun of anything remotely related to Christianity and get away with it under the free speech banner.

 

Is that what you mean by discrimination?

 

.

 

:iagree:

[Heather in Neverland]

To answer the question, I do think there are occasional isolated events of discrimination against Christians in the US. However, I do not think that Christians are in general discriminated against in the US. I do not think it is a common problem. Of the examples that previous posters have listed, maybe 1 in 10 seem like discrimination to me. The rest strike me as "losing special privileges that Christianity used to have". Things like holiday cards or community trees don't even come remotely close to discrimination against Christians unless someone is passing a law forbidding Christians from calling their own trees Christmas trees. If that is the case, then I'd be interested in hearing about it. Renaming a tree that is presumably meant to be shared by the community a community tree is an attempt to include others. Christians can still be a part of that community.

 

I agree with you actually. If a school or a business does not want to put up a Merry Christmas banner because they feel it is too Christian- specific, that's cool with me. But if that same store puts up a Happy Hannukah sign? That is wrong.

 

I think that is one of the things I really like about living here... All holidays have their moment, and often share moments, and even though the various groups don't agree with the other's teachings, they have a live and let live attitude for the most part.

 

My school is a Christian school but we close for Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist and Christian holidays. Our favorite Indian restaurant, owned by Muslims, decorates for Christmas, Chinese new year, Diwali, Hari Raya... Even Easter!

 

During the Christmas season, all the Muslim cashiers at the stores would say Merry Christmas as you left. No one seems to get bent out of shape about it.

 

Maybe the U.S. needs to ease up a bit. Instead of trying to stop everyone from doing anything religious, just let everyone do it equally. Let the kid at school bring his Bible if he wants and the other kid can bring his Koran. No big deal. Put up the Christmas trees right next to the menorahs.

 

I am a conservative, evangelical Christian but I just don't see the point in getting your knickers in a twist over this stuff. Stop making fun of each other. Stop disrespecting each other. Do your own thing. You don't have to agree with me. I don't have to agree with you. But wouldn't it be nice if we could do that without the hate?

 

.

[Charles Wallace]

yes.

 

 

 

In some ways it's very subtle: "Holiday [cards, gifts, etc.] instead of Christmas trees, Christmas cards, Christmas parties. (A big shopping center here in town puts up a "Community Tree." Really? :glare:)

 

 

Seriously? You think this is discrimination? How about the fact that there are a wealth of Christmas cards -- far outnumbering, I think, the "holiday" cards. Having a choice of options does not mean discrimination. It only means that there is acknowledgement that not everyone celebrates Christmas, but we all are glad of a holiday and glad to wish others one too.

 

Being fired or reprimanded for saying, "Have a blessed day."

Source?

 

Christmas carols not sung in schools,

 

Nor should they be if they contain religious content. I can only imagine the wrath that should result if a teacher were to compel students to sing songs containing religious content that was non-Christian. Let's face it -- if you're Jewish, it's just not too comfy to chant, "Boooorn is the kii-ing of Israaaaelll." How would you like it if your child came home saying that he was supposed to sing ( -- and I'm making this part up) a song with lyrics like, "The only god is Allah and Mohammed is his prophet"? I would object to that and for the same reasons.

 

football players mocked for praying before a game. In some ways it's more obvious: students not being allowed to pray at high school graduations,

Nope, nor should they be -- for any religion. If a student were to stand up in front of a public high school crowd and praise the Great Goddess or were to give thanks to Baal, I would still find it inappropriate in any but a private school setting. So would, I'm guessing, many Christians -- because it wasn't Christian.

 

the White House not holding its annual day of prayer,

 

Regarding the cancellation of the Day of Prayer, let's see what Snopes says:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/prayerday.asp

 

Ah. False.

people being fined for having Bible studies in their homes,

 

Source?

employers being forced to provide health care "services" which violate their religious beliefs.

 

Nope.

Church-affiliated universities, hospitals and charities would not have to provide or pay for such coverage. Instead, the White House said, coverage for birth control could be offered to women directly by their employers’ insurance companies, “with no role for religious employers who oppose contraception.”

Source:http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/health_insurance_and_managed_care/health_care_reform/contraception/index.html

 

Oh, and last I looked, by the way, Quakers are still being taxed and their taxes go to support the U.S. military -- as do taxes collected from Quaker-affiliated universities, hospitals, and charities. Should they be exempt? Do taxes collected from Hindu-affiliated universities, hospitals, and charities subsidize the U.S. agricultural industry -- including subsidies paid to cow farms? I think they do. Should they be exempt? When I hear these same church-affiliated universities protesting against paying for coverage of Viagra to anyone who cannot demonstrate he is a married man, then I will be much more sympathetic to this argument.

 

Specifically anti-Christian.

 

Only if Christianity were the only religion that opposed contraceptive coverage -- and let me remind everyone that while contraceptives are obviously used for contraception, they are prescribed for a host of other reasons relevant to women's health.

People (and government) bend over backwards to allow others to take off religious holidays or to serve foods allowed by certain religions,

 

But it's okay if there's a Christmas holiday or you don't have to work on Sunday? Or if the cafeteria in your workplace offers a fish option on Fridays? Or maybe that's not cool with you?

 

while systematically working to remove Christian symbols from the public view (how many cities have prohibited Nativity scenes at Christmas? San Jose, Calif, doesn't allow a Nativity at its Christmas in the Park event, but has erected a permanent statue to a Mexican god.)

Yes, for all the Aztecs who still worship Quetzalcoatl. Edited March 10, 2012 by Charles Wallace