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What do you all think of the new outreach to K-12 education Apple put forth today? (Ok-I realize iPads are expensive--but aside from that...)

 

An iTunesU app for iPad, interactive textbooks on the iPad, and a free program for authoring your own interactive texts.

 

Here is a link that will connect you to the bulk of the info...

 

Apple in Education

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My first thought was how on earth could an average parent afford an iPad per child -- and pay for eBooks for every subject? At the high school level, in addition to fees, new clothes, lunch, athletics, and costs like prom or whatever... that is crazy $$ expensive. :confused: I guess I see Apple profiting off parents who are still having to pay the same taxes to the schools, kwim?

 

However, as a homeschooler, I wonder if we would be allowed to buy the student/teacher textbook sets? (Probably not. McGraw Hill usually has to vet you if you buy directly from them.) And would homeschool publishers consider going to eBooks as it would save us all money. Think of the cost of Apologia or Teaching Textbooks cut in half... but the cost of the iPad kills me. I wish it could be an Android or Kindle color version, ya know? :glare:

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It looks very interesting and could be the thing that tips us to buying an iPad sooner rather than later, but I wonder about things like teacher's editions. It's all well and good for my daughter to have a textbook, but doesn't help me much if I can't get the teacher's edition. It would probably also mean, I'm guessing, that we would each need our own iPad?

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It looks very interesting and could be the thing that tips us to buying an iPad sooner rather than later, but I wonder about things like teacher's editions. It's all well and good for my daughter to have a textbook, but doesn't help me much if I can't get the teacher's edition. It would probably also mean, I'm guessing, that we would each need our own iPad?

:iagree:

 

I tried years ago to buy the teacher's edition (brand new) for a science textbook and the McGraw-Hill rep kept asking me for forms to prove I taught at a "brick and mortar" school. Once she found out I was a homeschooler, it was like, "Oh. Goodbye." Which is why I buy the teacher's editions (and textbooks) used -- as I cannot buy them brand new. Or buy from Homeschool publishers. Do they still restrict eBay from selling used Teacher's Manuals?

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I do find it interesting that Apple is giving away free software for creating the books. As I understand the publishing model, if you wish to offer the eBook for free you can do it from Apple or from your own website. You only have to distribute through Apple if you intend to charge for the book. (I saw a figure of 30% going to Apple but this may or may not be correct.) This could be a great way for homeschool publishers to get their materials out with almost no cost for printing or publishing.

 

I will be curious to see how the teacher's texts work out. Perhaps since everything is sold by Apple you could register with them as a homeschooler to have access to teacher texts. Kind of like getting the B&N Educator card.

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:iagree:

 

I tried years ago to buy the teacher's edition (brand new) for a science textbook and the McGraw-Hill rep kept asking me for forms to prove I taught at a "brick and mortar" school. Once she found out I was a homeschooler, it was like, "Oh. Goodbye." Which is why I buy the teacher's editions (and textbooks) used -- as I cannot buy them brand new. Or buy from Homeschool publishers. Do they still restrict eBay from selling used Teacher's Manuals?

 

Understood. I recently called Holt McDougal to ask a question about Avancemos!, their Spanish curriculum. They were willing to give me access to the online preview sections for the teaching materials I was considering purchasing new (and in digital format), but I couldn't find the answer to some specific questions about how the assessments were handled. The person I got on the phone offered to send me to the person who "handled homeschoolers"----the rep who dealt with Saxon Math! When I asked if that person was likely to know anything about Avancemos!, the answer was, "No, but she deals with homeschoolers.":banghead: After I pointed out that I wouldn't talk to the English program rep for a question about the biology program, so didn't think the math rep could help me with the Spanish program, she grudgingly offered to give me the number for the Avancemos! rep in my area--"but she probably won't have time to talk to you." :confused: "Well, she's busy talking to school districts who buy a couple hundred books at a time, so you can see your question's not likely to be a high priority."

 

I bought Tell Me More Spanish.

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As the software to create the textbooks is free and supposedly easy to use, I would think it has the potential to be really accessible for homeschoolers because the producers of homeschool curricula won't have to lay out the money or get the expertise to create interactive books for the iPad - they can do it much more easily, putting them on more of an equal footing with big textbook producers. After seeing that, I certainly thought, gee, if I wanted to create a curricula, that's totally what I would want to use.

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I can see how it would be good and save money at the college level. If the books are significantly cheaper, it would be worth an ipad at the beginning of a 4 year college career.

 

Plus, the carting around books thing is true, I had one semester where Tuesdays and Thursdays I had a back pack and a shoulder bag I carted around filled with books. It was HORRIBLE!

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It seems that it would either be VERY expensive or would require a lot of knowledge and skill to make the interactive portions. How do you create 3d images of cells and interactive topography maps, ykwim?

 

It's still very exciting. It's like the Usborne internet connected encyclopedias all put together into an ipad application.

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That looks so awesome! I just hope that materials we use will be offered. I too think it's a great way for more homeschoolers to have access to materials easier, such as teacher texts.

 

It's a wait and see now though. If they come out with material that will be something we can use in our schooling journey, I'll be thrilled to the moon!

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It seems that it would either be VERY expensive or would require a lot of knowledge and skill to make the interactive portions. How do you create 3d images of cells and interactive topography maps, ykwim?

 

It's still very exciting. It's like the Usborne internet connected encyclopedias all put together into an ipad application.

 

Cost of the textbooks reportedly maxes out at about $15.00. Cost to publish? Or difficulty to publish? No idea. Depends on cost to get or create the content. Of course you don't have to go as fancy as 3d graphics...

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However, as a homeschooler, I wonder if we would be allowed to buy the student/teacher textbook sets? (Probably not. McGraw Hill usually has to vet you if you buy directly from them.) And would homeschool publishers consider going to eBooks as it would save us all money. Think of the cost of Apologia or Teaching Textbooks cut in half... but the cost of the iPad kills me. I wish it could be an Android or Kindle color version, ya know? :glare:

 

From the big publishers, probably not.

 

From homeschool publishers, probably yes, even if they end up having to name it "Home Instructor Guide" or something to get around any loopholes for selling teacher's editions directly to parents.

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At least one of the school districts in this area is toying with the idea of going to all e-book textbooks. The SCHOOL would provide the reader and parents would pay for the books. If the reader is lost or damaged, then the parent would be required to replace it. Supposedly this would save the district money. I don't know if they're talking iPads or kindle/nook. I guess that's the wave of the future--lots of mad parents when they get a bill!

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Cost of the textbooks reportedly maxes out at about $15.00. Cost to publish? Or difficulty to publish? No idea. Depends on cost to get or create the content. Of course you don't have to go as fancy as 3d graphics...

 

I mean the cost to create the interactive content.

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No. :glare:

 

Apple's mind-bogglingly greedy and evil license agreement

 

(i) if your Work is provided for free (at no charge), you may distribute the Work by any available means;

(ii) if your Work is provided for a fee (including as part of any subscription-based product or service), you may only distribute the Work through Apple and such distribution is subject to the following limitations and conditions: (a) you will be required to enter into a separate written agreement with Apple (or an Apple affiliate or subsidiary) before any commercial distribution of your Work may take place; and (b) Apple may determine for any reason and in its sole discretion not to select your Work for distribution.

 

And then the next paragraph is bold-faced, just so you don’t miss it:

 

Apple will not be responsible for any costs, expenses, damages, losses (including without limitation lost business opportunities or lost profits) or other liabilities you may incur as a result of your use of this Apple Software, including without limitation the fact that your Work may not be selected for distribution by Apple.

 

The nightmare scenario under this agreement? You create a great work of staggering literary genius that you think you can sell for 5 or 10 bucks per copy. You craft it carefully in iBooks Author. You submit it to Apple. They reject it.

 

Under this license agreement, you are out of luck. They won’t sell it, and you can’t legally sell it elsewhere. You can give it away, but you can’t sell it.

Edited by nmoira
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I have to imagine that Apple's agreement is saying that you don't have the right to export the end product using the formatting from their software as opposed to them saying they effectively own the intellectual content.

 

The articles I've read seem to indicate that many think that the Author software is in an early version and that there will be more to come.

 

I think the concept is exciting. Particularly for homeschool materials publishing. I can't imagine the concept will end with Apple-Amazon and B&N don't want to loose out on those evolving markets.

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There's a very thoughtful analysis of this topic by a college professor here:

http://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2012/01/19/apple-for-the-teacher/

 

I think that a lot of the points he makes will resonate with classical educators.

Excellent analysis.

 

I like his statement, "More dynamic textbooks aren’t the solution to the problem of education—they’re not even the solution to the problem of textbooks." So true.

 

And the bottom line is $$$ and publishers trying to kill the used book market. How many college textbooks are sold to students and if they try to get an older used version are told you HAVE to buy the latest edition? Not many edits or changes in the newer version, but the company and author make $$$.

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There's a very thoughtful analysis of this topic by a college professor here:

http://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2012/01/19/apple-for-the-teacher/

 

I think that a lot of the points he makes will resonate with classical educators.

I took a sip of smoothie right I read this,

"Encarta is not the Future"

much to my chagrin.

 

:tongue_smilie:

 

Just wondering, how much does that date me?

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I'm curious to see how this could transform smaller markets like homeschooling. Frequently folks who come up with curriculum ideas say that one of the main problems isn't designing the content but publishing it an affordable cost. I wonder of some of the advantage of such a model lies in the ability of anyone to transform content into a "book" that already has production, sales, and distribution in place. Or even to create an iTunesU course for homeschoolers...

 

I'm the last person to advocate the end of the hardcopy but I do see the advantages of this publishing model in smaller markets. Sort of an e version of Lulu.

 

ETA: I certainly don't think slapping an iBandAid on education or textbooks will fix problems in education. I do think the technology could have implications and uses beyond what you see at first glance.

Edited by JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst
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I don't think this announcement is going to change the world or anything but I think for teachers and parents who are already engaged and doing a good job of instructing their students this could be a usefull tool. We love our ipad. It doesn't replace books but it is very convenient. We travel relatively frequently and carting around boxes full of stuff for homeschooling was a pain. This is substantially more convenient.

 

Also, I suprisingly find researching and reading on the ipad to be convenient and easier at times than using the computer or physical books. I mentioned this on another unrelelated thread earlier but I bought my husband Logos software for Christmas. Using it on the ipad to read and cross-reference is awesome. If etextbooks function anything like that I think they could be a good addition to our teaching toolbox.

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Orewa College, a public highschool about 2 hours south of where I live is requiring all students to buy an iPad as part of their school stationary this year. I'm sure glad that ds#2's PS doesn't require this, but I can see it coming. ATM ds#2's PS forbids students to being cellphones, iPods, MP3 players, etc. to school because of liability issues. As it was year 9 for ds#2 cost us over $2k, I don't see how we could have afforded another $1000+ for an iPad.

 

PS--- Orewa College is requiring iPads ($1000+), rather than cheaper netbooks (~$500), because PS here use Apple computers & it will be easier for teachers if all the students use the same brand of tablet.

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I don't have an ipad, so forgive me if this seems an obvious question. Does anyone know if these will be online textbooks that can only be accessed through a wifi or other internet connection, or can you download material that stays on the ipad and can be used when you don't have an active connection like you can on a laptop? We have wifi at home and there are a lot of hotspots locally, but I'm wondering if it would require a constant internet connection. Obviously it seems some aspects would require a connection, but it would make a difference if you couldn't do anything offline.

 

Also, if they are online, is it a subscription that would expire in a certain time period or is it an ebook you own forever that gets updates? Given the emphasis on it being current, I'm guessing it may be a subscription?

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At least one of the school districts in this area is toying with the idea of going to all e-book textbooks. The SCHOOL would provide the reader and parents would pay for the books. If the reader is lost or damaged, then the parent would be required to replace it. Supposedly this would save the district money. I don't know if they're talking iPads or kindle/nook. I guess that's the wave of the future--lots of mad parents when they get a bill!

 

Our district is piloting conversion to digital and they're using netbooks. Apparently start up costs will be covered by a grant, with later costs to the taxpayers.

 

We're also being told that this will save the district money. I have my doubts--especially since textbooks are in use for many years. The costs I'm concerned about aren't the costs the district is going to be parading in front of the public. I see this coming along with a huge headache. There never has been a technology launching to date that has included getting all the teachers trained before dollars ran out and the tech department can't keep up as it is. And then there's the hidden cost of the huge number of hours it will require teachers to overhaul their teaching and teaching materials.

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I don't think this announcement is going to change the world or anything but I think for teachers and parents who are already engaged and doing a good job of instructing their students this could be a usefull tool. We love our ipad. It doesn't replace books but it is very convenient. We travel relatively frequently and carting around boxes full of stuff for homeschooling was a pain. This is substantially more convenient.

 

Also, I suprisingly find researching and reading on the ipad to be convenient and easier at times than using the computer or physical books. I mentioned this on another unrelelated thread earlier but I bought my husband Logos software for Christmas. Using it on the ipad to read and cross-reference is awesome. If etextbooks function anything like that I think they could be a good addition to our teaching toolbox.

 

It won't be supplemental. I expect schools will do away totally with textbooks.

 

I was subbing when our district did the start up of the digital conversion and one of my initial reactions was that if they were going to take this step, the netbooks seemed too small and too limited. I don't have an ipad--can you do a lot more with it?

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Excellent analysis.

 

I like his statement, "More dynamic textbooks aren’t the solution to the problem of education—they’re not even the solution to the problem of textbooks." So true.

 

And the bottom line is $$$ and publishers trying to kill the used book market. How many college textbooks are sold to students and if they try to get an older used version are told you HAVE to buy the latest edition? Not many edits or changes in the newer version, but the company and author make $$$.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

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I see this as a marketing tool to school districts which have funds. My 12 year old cousin lives in a very well to do suburb of Chicago. All the children in my cousin's junior high were given a MacBook by the school. I see the iPad being the next logical tool to be offered. The district buys in bulk and gets a discount but it is still plenty of $.

 

I live in a district where they can barely afford pencils. Funny thing is, the property taxes are not too different. :glare:

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It won't be supplemental. I expect schools will do away totally with textbooks.

 

I was subbing when our district did the start up of the digital conversion and one of my initial reactions was that if they were going to take this step, the netbooks seemed too small and too limited. I don't have an ipad--can you do a lot more with it?

 

This is a late reply but because of all the available apps and the convenience of carrying it around I like my ipad a lot more than my netbook. There isn't anything I can do on my netbook that I haven't figured out how to do on my ipad but there are apps and things on the ipad I can't do on the netbook.

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I find this whole thing rather comical. We are a pretty tech-savy family. More computers than people in our house. A file server. Wireless printers. Hand-held devices. Evernote, Google calendars, Google documents. Blah, blah, blah.

 

And I can't tell you HOW many times I have threatened to TOSS IT ALL and go back to just books, pencils, and paper when the "system" is malfunctioning. Sometimes I just want to TEACH, sometimes I just want to work with a kid, sometimes I just want someone to LEARN something. And the STUFF is getting in the way. Laptop is dead. Where's the power cord? The network is down. But we can't reboot because of X, Y, Z. The DVD player in this machine doesn't work. This machine doesn't get good wi-fi reception in the kitchen. This machine is a Power PC so that software program isn't on it. Or this one is running Lion so THAT software is missing. The printer software was updated and now this machine won't print until its software is updated. Reboot. Wait. Wait some more. What needs to be backed up? Where is that file? Blah, blah, blah.

 

I can't image how much time is going to be lost in a classroom with 20+ second graders with iPads. BOOGLES THE MIND!

 

Getting information to kids is easy.

Getting them to spit it back is easy.

Educating them is hard.

Using technology to educate? An extremely difficult balancing act. Really challenging. ....and I'm not a technophobe.

 

Have you read the reviews on the "new" textbooks? Just as I thought. Quality control is going to be an enormous issue. What's

the joke about the infinite number of typing monkeys, Shakespeare, and the internet?

 

Someone is going to make a TON of money.

I doubt we are going to see dramatic gains in education though.

 

An interesting read on this topic:

Disrupting Class

http://www.amazon.com/Disrupting-Class-Expanded-Disruptive-Innovation/dp/0071749101/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1328105080&sr=8-2

We're in for a wild ride. ;)

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

 

P.S. If we had an iPad, I would download the software and have my 14 year-old make books for school projects. Way more gratifying that typing reports to file in the cabinet. :001_smile: Beyond that, I have no desire to start shuffling through millions of not-so-great ibooks. It has taken me YEARS to locate good materials that educate. I have no desire to do that over again just because someone invented a new platform.

...I guess I'm old..... And I'm rambling. If we do get an iPad, I will probably find some grand use for this new technology and will start raving about it in a month. But right now, I'm tired. Tired of the carrot. Tired of hoping that someone is going to find a way to make this job easier. For some reason, all of the "stuff" just seems to make it harder. Distracting. Confusing. Most of the time, it's just more to keep track of. ;)

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P.S. If we had an iPad, I would download the software and have my 14 year-old make books for school projects. Way more gratifying that typing reports to file in the cabinet. :001_smile: Beyond that, I have no desire to start shuffling through millions of not-so-great ibooks. It has taken me YEARS to locate good materials that educate. I have no desire to do that over again just because someone invented a new platform.

 

 

What a great idea! I'm not expecting the technology to revolutionize schooling for us ;), but I am hopeful it will save a good bit of money once we make the initial investment in an iPad. Getting up-to-date textbooks is expensive, especially at the high school level, and I only have one child so not having something to use with others isn't a problem. I hope the good materials will end up on the new platform.:) I'm going to have to do a lot of shuffling through each year anyway. Of course all of this is predicated on being able to afford an iPad........

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Our local district has had on-line textbooks for years now. They are staggeringly difficult to navigate. Honestly, the homework sheets they send home are looking for word for word answers from the textbook and there is no simple method of finding the answers. You can't flip through the pages and unless you have an awesome memory (and can remember exactly where it was when you read through the matreial the first time) you can't go directly to the page the item is on. It is so difficult that my children willingly carry home 5 full size textbooks a day rather than use the on-line version. That's an extra 35 lbs in their backpack.

 

Some years they didn't have enough physical textbooks to send home so they only sent them with kids that didn't have home computers (fair enough) but I went and bought the textbooks myself to have at home so that we didn't need to deal with the on-line version.

 

By the way, you can buy just about any textbook on Amazon. Sometimes you might have to look a little harder for a teacher's ed. especially if it is an older one but they will sell them. I have both bought and sold TE on Amazon.

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Our local district has had on-line textbooks for years now. They are staggeringly difficult to navigate. Honestly, the homework sheets they send home are looking for word for word answers from the textbook and there is no simple method of finding the answers. You can't flip through the pages and unless you have an awesome memory (and can remember exactly where it was when you read through the matreial the first time) you can't go directly to the page the item is on. It is so difficult that my children willingly carry home 5 full size textbooks a day rather than use the on-line version. That's an extra 35 lbs in their backpack.

 

Some years they didn't have enough physical textbooks to send home so they only sent them with kids that didn't have home computers (fair enough) but I went and bought the textbooks myself to have at home so that we didn't need to deal with the on-line version.

 

By the way, you can buy just about any textbook on Amazon. Sometimes you might have to look a little harder for a teacher's ed. especially if it is an older one but they will sell them. I have both bought and sold TE on Amazon.

 

We have a digital version of CPO Earth Science, so we'll get some practice with this next year to see how things go (on the laptop, not an iPad;)). I do buy textbooks (including TEs) on Amazon and in other locations, but even then a current one (published in the last year or so) is prohibitively expensive (definitely more than the $15!;)). The life science text we are currently using was cobbled together from various sources, but I was able to track down the student text, TE, test bank, reinforcement and vocab sheets, directed reading and study guides (and their answer keys). They are 10 years old, which is okay for middle school, especially when supplemented with more current video resources, but less desirable for high school science. When you add in shipping (since many don't have supersaver free shipping), it is still somewhat costly and very time-consuming, with little real resale value in the end. For some subjects, like math or grammar, having a current text is less of an issue, IMO, but for things like modern history or science, there can be major differences between one that was published in 2000 and one in 2010, for instance.

 

I'm still curious as to how much the TEs and other supplemental resources for these new iTextbooks will cost and whether there will be options to print out things like worksheets/study guides/tests.

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A district in the nearby metro area just handed out ipads to the entire freshman class. The kids will keep them until graduation. Each new class will be given ipads as well.

 

Too soon to know how it's going to turn out, but it was an interesting contrast to this article that I saw on another loop last week. It's an article from the NY Times that talks about how the spending on technology in classrooms hasn't been backed up by improved scores.

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I'm not sure that having iTexts is going to improve anyone's test score. It may improve on book expenses for those who are in schools/universities where they buy books every year. It may even improve on the crazy amount of weight kids slug around every day.

 

Last time I was really in touch what was happening in schools it was a trend towards the schools (private schools mainly) giving students (or requiring purchase as part of tuition) of laptops or netbooks. Students would now be required to submit papers via the internet, have access to interactive learning materials and eTexts would replace traditional books. I do wonder how much the iPad will change things for situations such as this.

 

Unfortunately or fortunately, I think part of the future of classroom management will be the adaption to new technologies. I would be shocked if they all backed off and returned to books, paper, and pencils. It will take a while to sort out all the kinks in the system. The problem is what happens during that time.

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I find this whole thing rather comical. We are a pretty tech-savy family. More computers than people in our house. A file server. Wireless printers. Hand-held devices. Evernote, Google calendars, Google documents. Blah, blah, blah.

 

And I can't tell you HOW many times I have threatened to TOSS IT ALL and go back to just books, pencils, and paper when the "system" is malfunctioning. Sometimes I just want to TEACH, sometimes I just want to work with a kid, sometimes I just want someone to LEARN something. And the STUFF is getting in the way. Laptop is dead. Where's the power cord? The network is down. But we can't reboot because of X, Y, Z. The DVD player in this machine doesn't work. This machine doesn't get good wi-fi reception in the kitchen. This machine is a Power PC so that software program isn't on it. Or this one is running Lion so THAT software is missing. The printer software was updated and now this machine won't print until its software is updated. Reboot. Wait. Wait some more. What needs to be backed up? Where is that file? Blah, blah, blah.

 

 

 

Wait a minute! Do you live in my house too?

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http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31747_7-57363113-243/ipads-in-classroom-provide-20-percent-jump-in-math-scores-study-says/

 

An experiment using iPads in a California school district Algebra class caused the students scores to increase 20%, compared to non-tech students. It seemed to me more like excitement over new technology and toys that caused the kids to use them more. I think it will take a few years of studies to figure out if it really changes anything permanently. This was one subject, one class, one year. And I firmly believe it still depends on a good teacher.

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I think we have to use the tech gadgets kids are using. The iPad is one example. Does it really matter WHY scores improve as long as kids are more eager to do the work? My son is only 8 and I am already trying to plan 3rd grade around the iPad, the iPod Touch, the computer, Netflix, YouTube and iTunes.

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Have you read the reviews on the "new" textbooks? Just as I thought. Quality control is going to be an enormous issue. What's

the joke about the infinite number of typing monkeys, Shakespeare, and the internet?

 

In all fairness, quality control is an enormous issue in printed textbooks as well.

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