I can't believe what I just did, and a question

[jhschool]

Hi

 

You are reacting too strongly to his swearing.

 

Just totally ignore it. He wants to get a reaction from you.

If you say anything, say "You know, that swearing is

really boring. I am not impressed. By the way, you

have extra chores/no computer time/early bedtime."

And then don't say anything, just follow through with

the consequence.

[Teachin'Mine]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

As far as your response to him, we all lose it sometimes in one way or another and a verbal oops is way better than a physical one. Along those lines, it sound like you son has actually made some progress. To go from physically acting out to verbally acting out is progress in the right direction. There's got to be some therapist who is willing to work with him without putting him on medication. I'd call around, maybe check with a teaching hospital, or a university with a good psychology department for suggestions. Is there a different outlet for his anger - maybe some intense physical activity or even a punching bag? I have no idea if that's a good idea or will just lead him back to physical aggression towards your daughter, but these are the kinds of things I'd check into.

[swellmomma]

Not even an option to have 2 yrs of pk here, nor would they take them at 3 yo.

 

That's why I'm completely confused.

 

Plus, being hs'd this year, means he'd have had five years of school, this being his 5th. :confused:

 

Not quite true. DS8 Was in preK at 3, I pulled him because the vast majority of the puf kids in his class were behaviour kids and he kept getting beat up, he as in for severe speech delay(he was nonverbal). It was a PUF program for special needs kids, they have them all over the city. If he was in a special needs program like my ds was then yes he would have been in from age 3 on. His PUF program was in the Evansdale elementary school and was part of the ps programming as far as funding goes. Has nothing to do with the OP issues but thought I would dispell that misinformation about what is available out here.

[swellmomma]

OP I have no sage words of wisdom for you. Just know I am down in the trenches with you. Not the same Dx but dealing with violent/aggressive outbursts(not always physical, mostly verbal like you). It is hard as a parent to deal with that and easy to lose your cool for a moment. If ODD is in the mix I feel for you, 2 of mine have Conduct disorder and for my ds it is getting quite severe. Impossible at times as a parent to cope with it. :grouphug:

 

ETA: I also know what it is like to be practically screaming for help from the "professionals" only to be told no or only to have them push meds. After all these years no one is pushing meds for ds anymore but now they are pushing for me to put him in a residential treatment center until his 18th birthday. For the last decade I have been asking for couselling, play, talk, individual, family etc and been denied at every turn mostly because we are going through the clinics associated with the provincial health care, private clinics that charge $150/hour might have done it. I went to the only Dr in a 2 hour radius that does neurofeedback. On his website he goes on and on about how it is great for kids with adhd and aggression etc. I get to the meeting and he says "sorry I don't work with kids", and gives me the name of a clinic that does, only they do not do neurofeedback, no one else does just him. If I want to go elsewhere I have to drive at least 5 hours to do so. So frustrating as a parent to see there is a problem, be trying so hard to work with it, and have doors shutting everywhere and to feel like you are at your breaking point, that something has to give.

Edited January 10, 2012 by swellmomma

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Hi

 

You are reacting too strongly to his swearing.

 

Just totally ignore it. He wants to get a reaction from you.

If you say anything, say "You know, that swearing is

really boring. I am not impressed. By the way, you

have extra chores/no computer time/early bedtime."

And then don't say anything, just follow through with

the consequence.

 

I did consider trying this, but the way he attacks dd can't be ignored for her sake. I also don't know how to address it in public. People will say something to him and it makes it worse.

 

I did ignore it when he was younger and didn't have the speech sounds. He would call everyone a "buck" and since no one could understand him, it was easiely ignored.

 

Any ideas for ignoring and somehow teaching dd that it is not ok for someone to treat her like that? I don't want her "seeking" abusive relationships when she's older because it's what seems normal to her.

[DianeW88]

Has your son tried learning any sign language? Often kids who have spoken language difficulties do extremely well with sign language. You could try checking out a couple of "Signing Time" videos from your library and just popping them in the DVD. See if your son likes them. I've seen remarkable strides in children who have been able to learn some signs when their verbal skills are lacking.

[Susan in TN]

He *knows* it's wrong, but it gets the strongest reaction from people outside of home and from me today. Curses and emotional words are tied to different parts of the brain and not "just" the language center. Emotional words (usually curses) are physically easier to say when frustrated, which is why stroke patients or other brain damaged patients tend to have foul language.

 

 

I'm assuming he doesn't talk like this during normal, unemotional conversation? Sometimes people use "strong" language because it's what makes them feel as though what they are saying matches what is going on inside - and sometimes what is going on inside is intense, strong, and ugly. If the language is coming out during times of intense emotion, I doubt if they are using it simply to get attention. It's just what comes out to give power to their communication - right or wrong.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I LOVE signing time! We have 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6. Thanks for the reminder.

 

He can sign the alphabet, his name, grumpy (LOL), and a few others. I don't know how to go from knowing basic signs to using it functionally. I think maybe I should take a signing class. I will ask his OT to use signs with him, and I'll make sure that the SLP we eventually find can sign.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I'm assuming he doesn't talk like this during normal, unemotional conversation? Sometimes people use "strong" language because it's what makes them feel as though what they are saying matches what is going on inside - and sometimes what is going on inside is intense, strong, and ugly. If the language is coming out during times of intense emotion, I doubt if they are using it simply to get attention. It's just what comes out to give power to their communication - right or wrong.

 

I do believe this. But what does it tell me in terms of helping him?

[jewellsmommy]

Are you positive ds 7 has not been tested for ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder)? That outburst alone makes me think there is too much rage/anger in a seven year old. :confused:

 

 

I was wondering this upon reading the op as well. Ds has this (among other things), and it is not fun :glare:. Ds sees an art therapist. I don't know if that is an option to consider.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I don't want to sound like I'm putting down a diagnosis, but for me related to ds, *I* feel a diagnosis of ODD would just be labeling the behavior that is caused by something else. I don't think he has ODD, rather has ODD symptoms because of his other issues and my parenting skills. Dd's personality matched my parenting. She has asperger's, but it's livable. Ds, I know I've reacted to wrong for too long. He cycles (not in a bipolar way) and I forget what he's taught me during past bad cycles.

 

*If* he does have some mild brain damage more than CP, and/or cerebellum problems, there has to be another way to work with him that would be different for a typically developing kid with ODD.

 

ETA: ODD to describe him feels like the same thing that a prior ortho said about his knee pain; his brain is too active for his body. It doesn't do anything to help the behavior or knee pain, just the quickest label, or a Dr not Dr-ing.

Edited January 10, 2012 by amo_mea_filiis

[mo2]

http://www.latchkey-kids.com/latchkey-kids-age-limits.htm

 

For those who were wondering.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I just have to say that so far today is going very well. He whined during reading, but got through it and even laughed a little between whines! He burped and then burped excuse me. His work is beautiful today. :)

[Susan in TN]

I do believe this. But what does it tell me in terms of helping him?

 

Honestly, I don't know. I'm in my 40s and I get overwhelmed/overstimulated and fly off the handle sometimes, too. I know it's all the more difficult for a child who is struggling with a dozen issues all at once. If you haven't, looking into sleep/allergy/food sensitivity issues are all good possibilities - maybe won't "solve" his issues, but make them more manageable. We have a friend (now a teenager) who would go bizerk after drinking/eating anything made from apples. I think his parents just kept a food/behavior diary and eventually found the pattern (strange but true :D).

 

I know this whole process can be overwhelming for parents, so take it slow, do what you can do, and try not to worry about the things you can't manage right now. :grouphug:

[Catwoman]

http://www.latchkey-kids.com/latchkey-kids-age-limits.htm

 

For those who were wondering.

 

Thanks for posting the link! :001_smile:

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Honestly, I don't know. I'm in my 40s and I get overwhelmed/overstimulated and fly off the handle sometimes, too. I know it's all the more difficult for a child who is struggling with a dozen issues all at once. If you haven't, looking into sleep/allergy/food sensitivity issues are all good possibilities - maybe won't "solve" his issues, but make them more manageable. We have a friend (now a teenager) who would go bizerk after drinking/eating anything made from apples. I think his parents just kept a food/behavior diary and eventually found the pattern (strange but true :D).

 

I know this whole process can be overwhelming for parents, so take it slow, do what you can do, and try not to worry about the things you can't manage right now. :grouphug:

 

I did call children's hospital to get the ball rolling on the updated sleep studies, and am calling the feeding team today because that needs to be done. We are loosely following the Primal Blueprint food plan, so that cuts almost all crap food (but doesn't cut possible triggers like apples). I'll keep a food log after we've been doing primal blueprint for a while.

[SweetMissMagnolia]

yeah I think my 9yr old just figured that one out recently....oh my :grouphug: I would definaetly want to mend that situation quickly.....have you tried time-outs? ummmm how about every time he says the word he gets a chore? (cleaning toilet--clean trash can)--our behavior dr wants us to use those for punishments for our kiddo (not for bad talk but for sassing).....you could do a chart with so many stickers for each day without the F**word....and at the end maybe a small treat? I don't know.....:grouphug:

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I love charts, but have never figure out how to (successfully) reduce from immediate rewarding to even slightly delayed. IOW when I set up a chart to give him a sticker for every hour he did not curse, he did well for 2 days. But on the 3rd day he cursed and didn't get the sticker for that hour and that ruined the whole day. Other charts work, but as soon as I reduce the rewards he's no longer interested.

 

Working sounds good. Maybe a bathroom chore for each "potty" word. (I wish he used "potty language", like in the poopy head sense).

[astrid]

Do you mean your 7 year old? My 7 year old doesn't even know that word exists. Surely you mean a teen, right?

 

No, she means her 7 year old. Look at her signature. And wow, way to kick a mama when she's down. :confused:

 

astrid

[Joanne]

I just read the whole thread. I'm wondering, in the midst of many professionals, and a history of trying to help him and your family, what you expect from us?

 

ODD is a serious diagnosis; I agree in proceeding carefully about going there.

 

Have you noticed a pattern with electronics, food, sleep, structure, people, friends?

 

A structural/organic issue (such as suggested by the MRI) limits your (and the professional's) ability to help.

[mo2]

And wow, way to kick a mama when she's down. :confused:

 

astrid

 

 

:iagree: I know *many* families where the F-word is a part of their regular vocabulary. It's not hard for a kid to be exposed to it.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I just read the whole thread. I'm wondering, in the midst of many professionals, and a history of trying to help him and your family, what you expect from us?

 

ODD is a serious diagnosis; I agree in proceeding carefully about going there.

 

Have you noticed a pattern with electronics, food, sleep, structure, people, friends?

 

A structural/organic issue (such as suggested by the MRI) limits your (and the professional's) ability to help.

 

Sometimes just talking about everything will point to a new route or something different, or even link something. I'm sure you know what I mean. The psychiatrist, who was very interested in his history, really had nothing to add. This is our normal with Drs; Hmm, interesting, I think, have a nice day. There's never any back and forth talk (like with a message board) and no "ah-ha" moments. It seems we go in circles with treating/managing the first layer of symptoms, but never *find* the root of the problem.

 

The treatment for the root could be exactly the therapies he's in, but right now it's still first layer treatment.

 

Also, being single, I have no adults to talk with IRL. I need to get it out somewhere. :001_wub: You guys are the best!

 

Electronics- I have to chart, but I think I see a difference. *I* have a problem reducing electronics and getting past that first week or so of increased behavior.

 

Food- not really, but I can't rule it out. Feeding eval is coming up soon and hopefully they can figure out what he's avoiding (color? shape? etc.).

 

People- He doesn't like them! He loves going food shopping with me early in the morning, like 7am, because there's no one there. Same thing on the cruise; he loved our early morning walks. It didn't get busy until 9-10am.

 

Sleep- I KNOW this is an issue, but not because of poor sleep hygiene or not enough hours. Well, it is sort of not enough hours, but because of his brain, not because his body isn't given the chance to sleep.

 

How about seasons and weather? I always thought the increase of negative behavior related to the start of the school year. No school this year but same increase.

 

My still lingering curiosity over the MRI is that other than the "low lying cerebellar tonsils" it's "not impressive." The cerebellum is low but not squished like in a Chiari malformation. Because it's not being squished, neuro doesn't think it means anything. His symptom/behavior pattern fits a cerebellum and/or brain damage more than CP.

 

Neuro, like everyone else, will say it's not A, B, or C, but don't offer what *is* there. I think we're just getting passed from one to the next.

[Whereneverever]

Sometimes just talking about everything will point to a new route or something different, or even link something. I'm sure you know what I mean. The psychiatrist, who was very interested in his history, really had nothing to add. This is our normal with Drs; Hmm, interesting, I think, have a nice day. There's never any back and forth talk (like with a message board) and no "ah-ha" moments. It seems we go in circles with treating/managing the first layer of symptoms, but never *find* the root of the problem.

 

The treatment for the root could be exactly the therapies he's in, but right now it's still first layer treatment.

 

Also, being single, I have no adults to talk with IRL. I need to get it out somewhere. :001_wub: You guys are the best!

 

Electronics- I have to chart, but I think I see a difference. *I* have a problem reducing electronics and getting past that first week or so of increased behavior.

 

Food- not really, but I can't rule it out. Feeding eval is coming up soon and hopefully they can figure out what he's avoiding (color? shape? etc.).

 

People- He doesn't like them! He loves going food shopping with me early in the morning, like 7am, because there's no one there. Same thing on the cruise; he loved our early morning walks. It didn't get busy until 9-10am.

 

Sleep- I KNOW this is an issue, but not because of poor sleep hygiene or not enough hours. Well, it is sort of not enough hours, but because of his brain, not because his body isn't given the chance to sleep.

 

How about seasons and weather? I always thought the increase of negative behavior related to the start of the school year. No school this year but same increase.

 

My still lingering curiosity over the MRI is that other than the "low lying cerebellar tonsils" it's "not impressive." The cerebellum is low but not squished like in a Chiari malformation. Because it's not being squished, neuro doesn't think it means anything. His symptom/behavior pattern fits a cerebellum and/or brain damage more than CP.

 

Neuro, like everyone else, will say it's not A, B, or C, but don't offer what *is* there. I think we're just getting passed from one to the next.

 

Have you tried going to a neuro specific children's hospital? If you aren't getting good answers that'd be my next step.

[brett_ashley]

Maybe Karyn Purvis's techniques would help? They are written for parents of children from hard places (typically adopted as older children) but they work really well with my biological well-adjusted kids as well. Her organization is called Empowered to Connect and her book is The Connected Child. She has some videos online that might help.

[astrid]

:iagree: I know *many* families where the F-word is a part of their regular vocabulary. It's not hard for a kid to be exposed to it.

 

Even so, stating, "MY child would NEVER!!!" isn't. helpful. at. all. :glare:

 

astrid

[mo2]

Even so, stating, "MY child would NEVER!!!" isn't. helpful. at. all. :glare:

 

astrid

 

 

Is the glare smiley directed at me? I was agreeing with you. :confused:

[astrid]

Is the glare smiley directed at me? I was agreeing with you. :confused:

 

Oh NO! Is that the way it seems?! Sorry-- no....I was agreeing with your agreement..... glaring smilie was for the poster who shared no helpful info or sympathy but pointed out that HER child would NEVER.

Wrote the post while being "MOMMED" to death. LOL!

 

Sorry sweetie! :grouphug::tongue_smilie::grouphug:

 

astrid

[mamatohaleybug]

My daughter does have a cerebellar malformation and has many similar issues to your son. Very explosive, no swearing but very verbally abusive to me. Resperidone and ADHD meds have worked wonders for us. I wish you had had more luck with those. I would still look at meds. There are so many options. We've tried 4 ADHD meds this year and finally have something working well now.

 

Are you working with a behavioral ped? A neuropsychologist? A developmental ped?

 

:grouphug: I truly feel for you. Truly.

 

Managing the SPD and making sure my DD gets 12+ hours of sleep help somewhat. Therapy (OT, PT, behavioral) helps some. Meds are a miracle. I wish something else had been but the reality for us is that the meds were needed. I wish I had more ideas. Rewards and punishments don't work for us at all. So many of these suggestions that work for neurotypical children simply do not work for children with brain damage and other neurological struggles.

 

Feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat privately. As harsh as some replies have been, I'm not willing to share anything else here.

[Nakia]

No advice, but wanted to offer some :grouphug:

[Ottakee]

I would still look at meds. There are so many options. We've tried 4 ADHD meds this year and finally have something working well now.

 

Are you working with a behavioral ped? A neuropsychologist? A developmental ped?

 

Meds are a miracle. I wish something else had been but the reality for us is that the meds were needed. I wish I had more ideas. Rewards and punishments don't work for us at all. So many of these suggestions that work for neurotypical children simply do not work for children with brain damage and other neurological struggles.

 

.

 

I agree here. Meds have been the miracle here as well. I went from having a homicidal/suicidal/hallucinating/raging child to one that is my "easy" child now. Meds allow them to be all they can be. It can be a battle finding the right meds at the right dose, etc. but it has been so worth it for us.

[mo2]

Oh NO! Is that the way it seems?! Sorry-- no....I was agreeing with your agreement..... glaring smilie was for the poster who shared no helpful info or sympathy but pointed out that HER child would NEVER.

Wrote the post while being "MOMMED" to death. LOL!

 

Sorry sweetie! :grouphug::tongue_smilie::grouphug:

 

astrid

 

 

No worries! I was just confused. Sometimes it's hard to tell when you can't actually *see* the person talking, you know?

[astrid]

No worries! I was just confused. Sometimes it's hard to tell when you can't actually *see* the person talking, you know?

 

Oh, how well I know! :D

 

astrid

[amo_mea_filiis.]

This isn't going to help his behavior, but I've decided to find a geneticist to evaluate him. I've come across too many things that are close to fitting, but I'm obviously not a Dr.

 

One thing I found was that the slight starburst pattern of his irises could fit into something. I just thought his eyes were really cool!

 

I'm going to make a list of everything he has going on, but just the signs and symptoms (IOW, I'm not going to list ADHD, but I'll list hyperactive, impulsive, minimal attention span; no CP, but left leg weakness, back through heel cord tightness). I'll put an * by the physical stuff like the cerebellum findings.

 

After genetics, I want to see a neuropsychologist to get a good, strong picture of where he's at, recommended therapies, and goals. This is regardless of genetic results.

 

These "quests" usually start around winter, then his behavior patterns become "normal" and by spring-summer, I give up again.

 

I left children's hospital in July-ish feeling confident about what was said, but then I realized that it was just another first-layer *possible* answer. It took months, but the diagnostic pediatrican (head of ds's "team") didn't even offer anything. He was supposed to field the specialists' results and look for something that explains most, if not all of ds's issues.

 

In the meantime- Consistency, PATIENCE, wash, rinse, and repeat x a gazillion.

[Nakia]

This isn't going to help his behavior, but I've decided to find a geneticist to evaluate him. I've come across too many things that are close to fitting, but I'm obviously not a Dr.

 

One thing I found was that the slight starburst pattern of his irises could fit into something. I just thought his eyes were really cool!

 

I'm going to make a list of everything he has going on, but just the signs and symptoms (IOW, I'm not going to list ADHD, but I'll list hyperactive, impulsive, minimal attention span; no CP, but left leg weakness, back through heel cord tightness). I'll put an * by the physical stuff like the cerebellum findings.

 

After genetics, I want to see a neuropsychologist to get a good, strong picture of where he's at, recommended therapies, and goals. This is regardless of genetic results.

 

These "quests" usually start around winter, then his behavior patterns become "normal" and by spring-summer, I give up again.

 

I left children's hospital in July-ish feeling confident about what was said, but then I realized that it was just another first-layer *possible* answer. It took months, but the diagnostic pediatrican (head of ds's "team") didn't even offer anything. He was supposed to field the specialists' results and look for something that explains most, if not all of ds's issues.

 

In the meantime- Consistency, PATIENCE, wash, rinse, and repeat x a gazillion.

 

 

Hang in there!:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Ottakee]

The cycling of behaviors with the seasons, in and of itself, is important.

 

I think genetics is very good. My girls have mito issues and POLG 1 is one of the ones they have and it has behavioral issues along with my physical issues so it might help the behavioral stuff as well.

 

I would start scheduling the neuropsych ASAP because, at least in our area, it can take many months to get in for an evaluation.

[Denisemomof4]

I want to encourage you to keep seeking for answers. Never give up no matter how hard it gets. I've been trying to solve dd12's puzzle for 8 years now. We are on our 13th doctor. I believe we're truly getting close to having all our answers, but if not, I'll keep searching.

[celticmom]

Honestly, I don't know. I'm in my 40s and I get overwhelmed/overstimulated and fly off the handle sometimes, too. I know it's all the more difficult for a child who is struggling with a dozen issues all at once. If you haven't, looking into sleep/allergy/food sensitivity issues are all good possibilities - maybe won't "solve" his issues, but make them more manageable. We have a friend (now a teenager) who would go bizerk after drinking/eating anything made from apples. I think his parents just kept a food/behavior diary and eventually found the pattern (strange but true :D).

 

I know this whole process can be overwhelming for parents, so take it slow, do what you can do, and try not to worry about the things you can't manage right now. :grouphug:

 

:iagree:I agree especially with the bolded. Allergies and food sensitivities can have a very dramatic impact on behavior.