On a level of 1-10 how creepy is

[Murphy101]

Having a rule and enforcing it only against certain arbitrary classes of people is called discrimination.

 

Indeed. It sounds as tho this rule is really just an excuse to be sexist against men.

 

I know this is an issue in some libraries. It's a location/logistics thing. The library is a warm place for bums to hang out. You get all kinds, and yes, you need to keep your little kids in your line of sight if you're in a place like that. I think people can tell if their local library has this problem or not.

 

Argh. You all are killing me here. There is no corrlation between being poor or a bum and being a pedo.

 

Go to the pretty library on the expensive side of town. They probably have a better selection! But you should be just as leery there as the bum infested on. Possibly more. I'm pretty sure a pedo knows which one a kids is more likely to have a false sense of safety.

[lakotajm]

First of all, as I mentioned earlier, if your Creep-o-Meter went off, you did the right thing by notifying the librarian. I am a firm believer in Mom Instinct.

 

Secondly, I know that some people are saying it was no big deal because it was a library chess set, but it was in the Children's Room. If this man wanted to play chess, he should have been in the adult section of the library, not sitting at a table in the kids' room. That just doesn't make sense to me. If he wanted to teach kids how to play chess, I'm sure the library would be happy to help him set up a class, but the fact that he was alone in the library, seeking out children to play with, seems creepy to me.

 

And FWIW, we're not talking about a kindly old grandpa sitting around waiting for his grandchildren to choose their books. This man was in his 50's. With no children with him. What's a guy in his 50's doing in the children's room of the library in the middle of the day, looking for kids to play chess with? :confused:

 

I'm sorry if some people are offended, but I really think that's just plain odd.

As I mentioned earlier, my dh is 53 and has a 6 yo! Rod Blagoyevich himself is in that category (ok, so he really is creepy!). Men's sperm works perfectly well in their 40s and beyond, thank you very much, and some marry late; my dh at 45. Couldn't he have been there with a child who just happened to be not near him?

 

If the chess board is in the childs' section, how rude is it to take off with it to the adult's section!:001_huh:

 

I really do think this is a city vs. small town or geographical issue. I do not think anyone at our library would think this is odd. We do not have any rules against adults in the kid's section here.

 

Last week, a small child played peep-eye through the bookshelf with me and I played along. Am I a creep? I did not ask his parent before I said "Hi there!....I see you!"

 

Lakota

Edited December 10, 2011 by lakotajm
redundancy

[SKL]

Argh. You all are killing me here. There is no corrlation between being poor or a bum and being a pedo.

 

Well, that's why I chose the word "bum" (vs. homeless person, for instance) and said you get all kinds. Heck, I've been known to stop at the library during a frigid walk just to warm up. And I don't exactly dress elegantly when I'm out walking in sub-zero temperatures.

 

But it is a reality that there are some places where pedos hang out at libraries. I wish it were not true, but it is. That does not mean every man who speaks kindly to a child is a creep.

[Sahamamama]

I know this is an issue in some libraries. It's a location/logistics thing. The library is a warm place for bums to hang out. You get all kinds, and yes, you need to keep your little kids in your line of sight if you're in a place like that. I think people can tell if their local library has this problem or not.

 

Actually, I disagree with you on both points. First, we have no bums hanging out in our library. None. There are no homeless vagrants in the library, ever. Furthermore, there is NO link between "bums" and pedophiles. NO connection. The pedophiles we have had looked like well-groomed, well-fed, well-housed people.

 

Secondly, basing my opinion on what has happened at our library, and how inattentive parents of young children have been, and how often unaccompanied minors (10 year olds, for example) have been dropped off at the door for the day :glare: -- no, many people do NOT know and can NOT tell what is happening or could happen in a public library. Or they can't be bothered to get a clue, because then they couldn't dump the kids off for the day.

 

It's a PUBLIC library, right? It's supposed to be safe. But we had a real problem here, NOT with adults who had no place to go, but with CHILDREN whose parents dumped them on the library for hours on end. We now have a "no unaccompanied minors" policy. If the library staff is aware of any unaccompanied minor in the library, they try to contact the parent/guardian. If within ten minutes, they don't have confirmation that the parent/guardian is immediately coming, they call the police and DYFS -- it is considered child abandonment & negligence.

 

Here's the policy:

 

Leaving a child [our particular interpretation of this rule stipulates a child under the age of 13] unattended in the library. (NJSA 2C:53A-14,15 Negligence)

 

The library staff told me that before they instituted this policy they would -- night after night -- have a 12 or 13 or 14 year old "left over" at closing time. So it's 9 o'clock at night and the staff has to either wait for the parent to show up -- "Oh, sorry, I forgot" :001_huh: -- or leave the kid standing alone outside the library at night (which they all refused to do). Now they just call the police and DYFS.

[kalanamak]

I

Argh. You all are killing me here. There is no corrlation between being poor or a bum and being a pedo.

 

 

Not every danger to children is sexual.

 

I would argue that a delusional, paranoid person who might harm you is more likely to be homeless and/or oddly dressed than the average person on the street. I've met many a patient who was admitted after assaulting a stranger, and (searching my memory banks) those who targeted children in non-sexual ways, i.e. knocked them off a bicycle because they were breaking the law by riding on the sidewalk, or kidnapping them from a public place, etc. were WOMEN. There was the case discussed here where a generally stable but chronically mentally ill man had had a recent change in meds, and while switching from one bus to another on his way to his monthly mental health meeting, took the hand of a child he felt was his and walked off (but he wasn't homeless), but I see such acts much more often with psychotic women.

 

Delusions about children are not uncommon with mentally ill woman (many have lost 1 or more kids to CPS). If I had to pick between a chess game with a strange man in a public place, and being whisked out the side door with a strange woman, I know what I'd go for.

 

So, I do think it is common for people to move their child away from people who are not following societal norms. It is one of the ways we navigate the world. I recall when my husband first met "grunge" college students. It happened to be at my alma mater, and I knew full well they were bright, peaceable college students because I'd lived in that environment. Hubby had never seen anyone like that and literally moved to sit between them and our baby in a high chair. I was bemused by this and went over to talk to them, and indeed they were bright-eyed, sincere, open people. In the environment we were in (this small lib-arts college town) they were following societal norms.

 

OTOH, when kiddo was only six and the mentally ill, inappropriately dressed, and cut up from the bushes and smeared with blood lady appeared at our door, and moved forward with a loving "oh, a baby", my son jumped right behind me and hid from her. Near instinct.

 

So, while I suspect most of us wouldn't want the homeless to freeze on the street or go hungry, we might well be more cautious having a child loose in a library where such people are getting warm.

[Annie G]

Maybe he just wanted to play chess. I really hate that, when it comes to men, we always think the worst first. It makes me sad for my sons.

 

Me, too. We have a family friend who has never married and he'd love to play chess with kids- and lots of kids need someone to teach them/play with them.

Sad that we have to be vigilant about that kind of thing.

[SKL]

Actually, I disagree with you on both points. First, we have no bums hanging out in our library. None. There are no homeless vagrants in the library, ever. Furthermore, there is NO link between "bums" and pedophiles. NO connection. The pedophiles we have had looked like well-groomed, well-fed, well-housed people.

 

Secondly, basing my opinion on what has happened at our library, and how inattentive parents of young children have been, and how often unaccompanied minors (10 year olds, for example) have been dropped off at the door for the day :glare: -- no, many people do NOT know and can NOT tell what is happening or could happen in a public library. Or they can't be bothered to get a clue, because then they couldn't dump the kids off for the day.

 

It's a PUBLIC library, right? It's supposed to be safe. But we had a real problem here, NOT with adults who had no place to go, but with CHILDREN whose parents dumped them on the library for hours on end. We now have a "no unaccompanied minors" policy. If the library staff is aware of any unaccompanied minor in the library, they try to contact the parent/guardian. If within ten minutes, they don't have confirmation that the parent/guardian is immediately coming, they call the police and DYFS -- it is considered child abandonment & negligence.

 

Here's the policy:

 

Leaving a child [our particular interpretation of this rule stipulates a child under the age of 13] unattended in the library. (NJSA 2C:53A-14,15 Negligence)

 

The library staff told me that before they instituted this policy they would -- night after night -- have a 12 or 13 or 14 year old "left over" at closing time. So it's 9 o'clock at night and the staff has to either wait for the parent to show up -- "Oh, sorry, I forgot" :001_huh: -- or leave the kid standing alone outside the library at night (which they all refused to do). Now they just call the police and DYFS.

 

1) Honestly? The no unaccompanied minor rules at the library really make me angry. Kick the kids (and adults) out if they are not acting properly, but don't prevent kids who actually want to use the library from being in there. Kids can find their own way home by the age of 10, certainly (I was taking myself to and from the library in a big city by the time I was 7). Nobody has to wait around for a parent to come and pick up a kid older than that. This is one area where our culture has gone severely backwards.

 

2) I didn't say every library is a bum hangout. I said some. I specifically said it was a location thing.

 

3) I probably misused the word "bum," based on the reaction here. I don't know. The fact is that a relatively high percentage of people "with no better place to go" are ex-convicts and people with drug and alcohol problems (who may also be ex-convicts). Why? Because it's harder for these classes of people to get and hold a job. And some of these folks have a history of sex offenses. I doubt that there no correlation between ex-convicts and sex offenders. (Personally I don't consider a rapist of a teen to be a pedophile. That's simply a rapist.)

 

4) Yes, lots of pedophiles are well-dressed and employed. And, most pedophiles are not strangers to the kids they prey on. The incidence of strangers abducting and harming children is extremely small. Keeping all men away from all children not their own is not the way to address the problem of pedophiles. There are better ways that do not require men to avoid children. Society benefits from men who care for children.

[Annie G]

I volunteer at our local library in the children's section. Adults are not allowed in the section without a child except to come to the desk for assistance. There are reasons for this. From experience, this man's behavior is a 10!

 

That rule would bother me. I've gone to the children's section alone plenty of times- when my kids were sick, when I was checking out books for a unit study in co-op, to stock up on books for when my grandkids come to visit.

[BamaTanya]

That rule would bother me. I've gone to the children's section alone plenty of times- when my kids were sick, when I was checking out books for a unit study in co-op, to stock up on books for when my grandkids come to visit.

 

It would bother me, too! For years I was a first grade teacher who checked out piles of books for my class. And I didn't have any children!

[nrg]

We don't need to feel judgmental, biased, unfair; we need to keep our kids safe.

 

An adult wanting to play chess has many options beyond the children's room of a library. As I said earlier, our library has found that lone adults in the children's room have often had dangerous agendas. With that information, and knowing nothing about this fellow, the safe behavior is to avoid him. Or, if the library has a policy forbidding lone adults in the children's room, report his presence to the staff.

 

If your child wants to play chess with this man, you sit down with them and watch the play. Keep it supervised, get a name and number, etc. Talk with your child about staying safe with people we don't know.

 

We can do either of these things without casting aspersions or making assumptions about the fellow. We can be kind without being foolish and safe without being cruel.

[Farrar]

I think rules like that need common sense checks. Teachers, parents without their kids, people with a low reading level looking for easy books on a topic... there are lots of reasons for adults without kids to be in the kids' section. But I don't have a problem with the librarian checking in with every childless adult who comes in or even trying to keep an eye out. In general, people who are somewhere when they shouldn't, will make some excuse and leave if someone asks them a question and people with a legitimate reason will stay.

 

There are a HUGE number of homeless men at our libraries, especially downtown. However, I've literally never had a problem with them and they're not allowed in the children's area (unless, presumably, they had a child with them or another reason, but I've never seen that and the librarians don't seem to be fighting them to keep them out). Libraries are for everyone. Many of them just sit there because it's warm, but many of them read books and magazines or wait in the computer queues all day and use the computers off and on. They have that right like everyone else.

[Murphy101]

1) Honestly? The no unaccompanied minor rules at the library really make me angry. Kick the kids (and adults) out if they are not acting properly, but don't prevent kids who actually want to use the library from being in there. Kids can find their own way home by the age of 10, certainly (I was taking myself to and from the library in a big city by the time I was 7). Nobody has to wait around for a parent to come and pick up a kid older than that. This is one area where our culture has gone severely backwards.

 

2) I didn't say every library is a bum hangout. I said some. I specifically said it was a location thing.

 

3) I probably misused the word "bum," based on the reaction here. I don't know. The fact is that a relatively high percentage of people "with no better place to go" are ex-convicts and people with drug and alcohol problems (who may also be ex-convicts). Why? Because it's harder for these classes of people to get and hold a job. And some of these folks have a history of sex offenses. I doubt that there no correlation between ex-convicts and sex offenders. (Personally I don't consider a rapist of a teen to be a pedophile. That's simply a rapist.)

 

4) Yes, lots of pedophiles are well-dressed and employed. And, most pedophiles are not strangers to the kids they prey on. The incidence of strangers abducting and harming children is extremely small. Keeping all men away from all children not their own is not the way to address the problem of pedophiles. There are better ways that do not require men to avoid children. Society benefits from men who care for children.

 

Most of this post I can agree with and see some reason in it.

 

As for the social norms thing... Idk. I think it's a pretty sick and screwy society that views adults around children as automatically suspect. It being supposedly normal to have that POV doesn't make it any more right, true, or even helpful in making a child safer. I do understand what you are trying to get across. I simply think it is a very fine line to walk and could be taken too far.

 

I don't hang out with goth looking people, just not the same social circle, but even if I had never seen them before - that by itself would not trip up my suspicion radar. People can be dramaticly different from me. They can have full body tattoos, multiple piercings, and pink hair. Shaved heads. Cuss. Suits or holey jeans. Speak a foreign language. Or whatever. It sounds like the excuse of supposed social norm is too easily code for viewing anyone different than our personal club as a possible threat of trouble.

[nrg]

I would like to clarify the no adults rule. Anyone can pop into the children's room and say hello at the desk and select books. If an adult comes in and doesn't check in, we just approach them and ask if we can help. It's very friendly and reasonable. The rule allows us to move adults to the adult section when we need to.

[SKL]

Or, if the library has a policy forbidding lone adults in the children's room, report his presence to the staff.

...

We can be kind without being foolish and safe without being cruel.

 

Only if you would do the same to every woman who was in there without a child in her immediate presence.

 

To another person's comment - I don't agree that a man's leaving after being confronted for the "crime" of being near children is evidence that he's indeed a creep. My dad would leave and never go back if that happened. How humiliating and ignorant.

 

I guess male teachers must have to deal with this nonsense all the time. How unfair and counterproductive. But then, I'm sure there are some who would say "why does he want to teach children anyway, doesn't he know that's weird?"

[Murphy101]

The no children alone thing would have seriously and literally ruined my entire childhood.

 

From a very young age, I walked from my home a little over a mile to the public library many times a weeks and stayed for hours. Because there are hours of stuff to find interesting at a library. I dont think the librarians even noticed or cared. Unless I did something to bring attention to myself, there was no reason for them to bother about it. If parents had to be there or give permission or even drop off/pick up - going to the library would likely have never happened again.

[Murphy101]

Only if you would do the same to every woman who was in there without a child in her immediate presence.

 

To another person's comment - I don't agree that a man's leaving after being confronted for the "crime" of being near children is evidence that he's indeed a creep. My dad would leave and never go back if that happened. How humiliating and ignorant.

 

I guess male teachers must have to deal with this nonsense all the time. How unfair and counterproductive. But then, I'm sure there are some who would say "why does he want to teach children anyway, doesn't he know that's weird?"

 

Yes. I would leave too. There's really no way a person would feel welcome or comfortable after that?

[misidawnrn]

1110000000!

That sets my alarms off!

He needs to find other 50 year old men to play chess with him. I would alert the librarian!

[Outdoorsy Type]

I asked DS more about this today, and he said the man told him he didn't know how to play chess. DS was talking the man through how to play the game. I just learned how to play chess at 29, so I could understand that. Although it still seems weird for a man who seemed at least average intelligence and fairly well dressed to go over to the kids area and ask kids to teach him how to play??? The children's area is dark with several lights that are always out, and dark corners. The bathrooms also set me at edge as they are single stall and easy to sneak off into.

 

After he left, he rode off on a bicycle. It did make me judge him more that he didn't drive away. I know SO who won't get a drivers license because it would require the SO stamp. A lot of how this situation made me feel is wrapped up in people I have known in the past, and the location of the library.

[nrg]

Only if you would do the same to every woman who was in there without a child in her immediate presence.

 

Of course. And reporting to the staff that a lone adult is approaching children in the children's room would not lead to confrontation or humiliation. The librarian would just go ask if the person needed help, as s/he would do with any lone adult. Then the librarian would provide the help requested, often redirecting the person to the adult room. Monitoring the activities in the children's room is a top priority.

 

The library is for everyone, and that means we have to find ways to get along and be safe together.

 

Certain behaviors, lone adults approaching children, watching them play, entering the children's bathroom, etc. are often indicative of risk to the children. Being aware of and monitoring these things is part of managing a public place and keeping it safe and welcoming for everyone.

[SKL]

I asked DS more about this today, and he said the man told him he didn't know how to play chess. DS was talking the man through how to play the game. I just learned how to play chess at 29, so I could understand that. Although it still seems weird for a man who seemed at least average intelligence and fairly well dressed to go over to the kids area and ask kids to teach him how to play??? The children's area is dark with several lights that are always out, and dark corners. The bathrooms also set me at edge as they are single stall and easy to sneak off into.

 

After he left, he rode off on a bicycle. It did make me judge him more that he didn't drive away. I know SO who won't get a drivers license because it would require the SO stamp. A lot of how this situation made me feel is wrapped up in people I have known in the past, and the location of the library.

 

This sounds like a man who may be mentally challenged. Though of course it's not enough info to really tell. If that's the case, it would explain why he wanted to be in the children's section of the library in the middle of the day, why he didn't know how to play chess, why he would innocently ask a child to teach him, and why he would not be driving.

 

I totally respect your instinct - you felt something was off, and you were right to act on your gut feeling. What bothers me is the attitude (held by many commenters here) that a man in the children's section of the library is per se creepy.

[kalanamak]

Yes. I would leave too. There's really no way a person would feel welcome or comfortable after that?

 

:iagree:As much as I love libraries and librarians, some of the most socially unpleasant experiences I've had have been in libraries, and, being the avoidant person I am, I have either never gone back, or sculked in and used the electronic check out and sculked out again after that.

 

Every instance has been an inflexible, humorless, pedantic librarian.

[Murphy101]

Of course. And reporting to the staff that a lone adult is approaching children in the children's room would not lead to confrontation or humiliation. The librarian would just go ask if the person needed help, as s/he would do with any lone adult. Then the librarian would provide the help requested, often redirecting the person to the adult room. Monitoring the activities in the children's room is a top priority.

 

:001_huh:I get asked that question all the time and 98% of the time say I don't need any help thank you. I'd be rather POd if I said I didn't need help and the librarian said I should go to the adult areas.

 

This sounds like a man who may be mentally challenged. Though of course it's not enough info to really tell. If that's the case, it would explain why he wanted to be in the children's section of the library in the middle of the day, why he didn't know how to play chess, why he would innocently ask a child to teach him, and why he would not be driving.

 

I totally respect your instinct - you felt something was off, and you were right to act on your gut feeling. What bothers me is the attitude (held by many commenters here) that a man in the children's section of the library is per se creepy.

 

WSS.

 

And just yet another different perspective.

 

I LOVE my library's single use bathrooms! I don't have to go in with them because I know no one else is in it or going to enter it after they do.

[LibraryLover]

:001_huh:

 

I LOVE my library's single use bathrooms! I don't have to go in with them because I know no one else is in it or going to enter it after they do.

 

 

I love that! lol There is also a family one at ours, and they ask you to lock yourself in for privacy sake, even though there is a stall with a door. Heart them.

 

I can't even imagine a library where adults sans kids can't enter the children's section. That's paranoia at it's finest. Are there no teachers in that town, no parents picking up their kids' ILL requests?

[Cindyz]

The two libraries we go to have short shelves for the books in the children's section. They are tall enough that you may not be able to see all of your child, but they are short enough that you can see any adult that is in the aisles. This makes it easy to keep an eye on what's going on with one sweeping glance.

[happypamama]

I think it would depend on the situation. If I felt something was a bit off, then it would be about a 20 on my creep-o-meter. Otherwise, probably just a 3 or 4, as in "a little unusual but probably one of a hundred legitimate reasons for him being there."

 

I go to the library sometimes in the evenings without the kids, and gasp, I often ask DH to stop and pick up books on his way home, sans children. Here, all of the books on hold are at the main desk, though, rather than the children's desk. (Actually, that's a different annoyance. The vddusport large, very nice library around here is two stories, the main desk, adult section, and DVDs/audio books on the main story, with the children's room on the lower story. One time, we had books waiting at the main desk, and I wanted to browse the audio books to find something for DH, which takes a while, so I sent DD, age 9, downstairs with the 3 and 6yo boys, telling them I'd be down in a few. There's nothing for the 3yo to do upstairs, except make noise and mess with the stretchy ropes in line, so I figured sending them down was a good plan, since I'd be along in a couple of minutes. They got fussed at, and the librarian fussed at me too, for them being alone for a few minutes. The rule is nobody under 12 allowed alone. DD thinks that's ridiculous. So do I.)

[Outdoorsy Type]

:001_huh:I get asked that question all the time and 98% of the time say I don't need any help thank you. I'd be rather POd if I said I didn't need help and the librarian said I should go to the adult areas.

 

 

 

WSS.

 

And just yet another different perspective.

 

I LOVE my library's single use bathrooms! I don't have to go in with them because I know no one else is in it or going to enter it after they do.

 

I live in the same state and might go to the same library. :) I do like the children's restrooms in the area and send my kids there when we go to the library. I only mentioned them as a place that is hidden from public view and a child could be lured to.

 

As for the policy, I am unsure how I feel. It's a library that probably has had a problem with predators and that is why it's there. It's an area where men have hidden and waited for children. How do you protect the libraries smallest and most vulnerable patrons without making the adults feel uncomfortable? What is reasonable? I don't believe we should negate the danger that is present. It isn't paranoia when a problem does indeed actually exist. To stick our heads in the sand puts others in danger.

 

I do go in all the time by myself, and am about to go to a different library system to find the book I couldn't find yesterday. I have to have it for a lesson on Monday, and I'm sure I'm not the only one with this issue. I also like to read YA and Teen books and sometimes want to see what's new over there.

 

I don't think the situation is black and white.

[Catwoman]

As I mentioned earlier, my dh is 53 and has a 6 yo! Rod Blagoyevich himself is in that category (ok, so he really is creepy!). Men's sperm works perfectly well in their 40s and beyond, thank you very much, and some marry late; my dh at 45. Couldn't he have been there with a child who just happened to be not near him?

 

In this case, he wasn't. He left the library alone when the librarian confronted him. If the OP had mentioned that the guy was there with his kids or grandchildren, or if he'd told the librarian he was waiting for them to arrive, I wouldn't have been suspicious of his motivations.

 

FWIW, my dh was older than yours is now when my ds was born, so I wasn't thinking of a man in his 50's being "old." (My DH would be pretty upset if I did! ;)) I was actually thinking the guy the OP was talking about was young to be hanging around in the kids' section of the library by himself during the day. I see a lot of elderly men (and women) in the library children's section with their grandchildren all the time, but if I see a younger man, he's usually there picking up books for his kids and checking them out, not sitting around by a chessboard.

 

I never said I found the idea of any man in the children's section to be a red flag (and I never said that I thought a man in his 50's was old, for that matter.) My response was only based on the info the OP provided.

 

I apologize for any confusion and hope I didn't offend you. :001_smile:

[SKL]

It's a library that probably has had a problem with predators and that is why it's there. It's an area where men have hidden and waited for children.

 

Do you know this for a fact? If this is the case, maybe it should be a cop hangout for a while.

 

In any case, the man your son encountered was not hiding, as far as we know.

 

Making all the men clear out just because someone, somewhere might have targeted a child reminds me of the mom who declared that when her school-age son needed to use the public restroom, she would go into the men's room, holler for all the men to clear out, and then stand there while her son safely peed. (No, I'm not making this up.)

 

I like the idea of making all the children's shelves low, etc. (other than the shelves along the walls). In our local library, its' like that, and also, there is no wall separating the children's area from the rest of the library. There are no bathrooms or in/out doors in the children's area. It would be pretty hard for anyone to corner a child and do something strange in there.

[Catwoman]

What bothers me is the attitude (held by many commenters here) that a man in the children's section of the library is per se creepy.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but the idea of a man in the children's section of the library doesn't bother me at all. The idea of a man hanging around in the children's section of the library sitting at a chessboard -- not browsing through books or waiting for his kids or grandkids to arrive -- is what strikes me as odd.

 

Could there be innocent reasons why the guy was there? Of course, but I'm not going to let my ds be the guinea pig in an experiment to find out if the guy is a predator. I wouldn't be rude to the guy, but I wouldn't encourage my ds to hang around with him, either.

[Catwoman]

I LOVE my library's single use bathrooms! I don't have to go in with them because I know no one else is in it or going to enter it after they do.

 

 

:iagree: The family rest rooms at places like Sam's Club and many department stores are excellent, too.

 

I think they're great because your kids feel like they're "big" if you let them go in alone, but you know they are safe. They are also a godsend to men with daughters, because they don't want to haul their dds into the men's room, yet are worried about sending them into a public ladies room alone. (For some reason, moms can get away with bringing their sons into the ladies room, as long as the sons are respectful, but it's not so easy for men with dds because of the urinals.)

[SKL]

I think they're great because your kids feel like they're "big" if you let them go in alone, but you know they are safe. They are also a godsend to men with daughters, because they don't want to haul their dds into the men's room, yet are worried about sending them into a public ladies room alone.

 

I hate to play devil's advocate on this, but in an iffy area, I'd still check out the restroom before sending my small kids in there. Just to make sure nobody is in there quietly hanging out.

[Teachin'Mine]

9.5

 

Then with him leaving the library completely without explaining to the librarian that he's a chess coach or some other such thing which MIGHT make some sense - it goes well off the charts. The librarians should be more aware of who is in the children's section.

[Miss Marple]

I'd be about as creeped out as I would be by a female making a huge assumption that some nice man playing chess might be trying to molest her child. FWIW, men can be clueless (I live with quite a few) and he might just enjoy teaching kids how to play chess. I would have loved to have an older man teach my boys how to play. It is assumptions like this that make me have to have talks with my boys about women/girls who will manipulate them and then accuse them of something - I have to teach them to protect themselves from these type of assumptions, accusations, and women. Maybe this man was never taught to protect himself.

[SKL]

I have to teach them to protect themselves from these type of assumptions, accusations, and women. Maybe this man was never taught to protect himself.

 

Interesting and very true point!

[Catwoman]

I hate to play devil's advocate on this, but in an iffy area, I'd still check out the restroom before sending my small kids in there. Just to make sure nobody is in there quietly hanging out.

 

I absolutely agree with you -- my idea of letting my ds "go in alone" was that either my dh or I would go in first (you know, to "make sure it was clean enough" ;)) and then wait outside the door while he went in alone.

 

So basically, my idea of letting him go in alone is that he was still completely monitored, but he felt like he was going by himself. :tongue_smilie:

[TranquilMind]

A 1 without further information.

 

Was he browsing the shelves? Could he be picking out books for his child or grandchild? Some of my children's peers have much older parents. Was the rest of the library full and he sat in there? That happens a *lot* in our little library.

 

So just an adult male, older male or any other person in the children's section does not at all set off alarms for me without further information.

Agreed. Need more information. He could have just been there waiting for his wife in another section or something, and the librarian told him some Mom thought he was a sex offender so he left in a huff. You just don't know. But I'd certainly have called my young child over to go with me, or else engaged the man in conversation myself to see if he triggered my radar.

 

I'm a "gather the evidence" type.

[SKL]

I absolutely agree with you -- my idea of letting my ds "go in alone" was that either my dh or I would go in first (you know, to "make sure it was clean enough" ;)) and then wait outside the door while he went in alone.

 

So basically, my idea of letting him go in alone is that he was still completely monitored, but he felt like he was going by himself. :tongue_smilie:

 

Exactly ;). Unless I was very confident that the place was safe and clean.

[kolamum]

I know a friend who was "chewed out" one day by her librarian for leaving the kids alone in the kids section of her local library {CO state}. At first it was just like the cherry on top of her bad day, but the librarian saw her dismay and told her that she was sorry she'd been rude in her presentation, but that in short they've had some real creeps hanging out in the kids section.

 

I don't even live in the US, but that FREAKED me out. I rarely wander away from the kids section of our library despite being able to see them from the adult section. Thing about it kids sections is that it's an easy place for icky people to prey on children because it is, after all, meant for children. People feel a library is a safe haven and don't think twice about leaving their children alone.

 

I'd give a 12 out of 10 for creepy, unless the man was mentally ill and thus that's where his mentality levels were. Kwim?

[akmommy]

Definitely would have set of warning bells in my head. If the man had no children with him he should not be hanging around the children's section. My DH understands how taking too much interest in children he doesn't know can look to an outsider and avoids putting himself in that position. As another poster said there are a number of great places and programs where adults can mentor kids if their interest is genuine. I'm sure many Boys and Girls Clubs would love to have someone volunteer to teach chess.

[Renthead Mommy]

I asked DS more about this today, and he said the man told him he didn't know how to play chess. DS was talking the man through how to play the game. I just learned how to play chess at 29, so I could understand that. Although it still seems weird for a man who seemed at least average intelligence and fairly well dressed to go over to the kids area and ask kids to teach him how to play???

 

Well when I was trying to learn chess, along with my then 8yo, the first place I went was the kids section. I checked out kids books on chess. I checked them out for ME. I looked at the chess books in the adult section. They were overwhelming for the first thing to look at. So I can totally see someone, who doesn't know about chess going to the kids section, looking through chess books and sitting down at the chess board and starting to work through what they were reading.

[Murphy101]

As for the policy, I am unsure how I feel. It's a library that probably has had a problem with predators and that is why it's there. It's an area where men have hidden and waited for children. How do you protect the libraries smallest and most vulnerable patrons without making the adults feel uncomfortable? What is reasonable? I don't believe we should negate the danger that is present. It isn't paranoia when a problem does indeed actually exist. To stick our heads in the sand puts others in danger.

 

I don't think the situation is black and white.

 

:001_huh:Probably? Protecting the kids? Really if they are concerned or have a problem, they shouldn't call security. They should call the police. To suggest otherwise is ... Pointless and endangering. FAR more so than playing a game of chess with some guy.

 

ETA: no one has suggested ignoring gut instinct or obvious questionable behavior. Simple math and facts are it is highly unlikely some guy wanting to play chess at the public library is a danger.

 

I'd be about as creeped out as I would be by a female making a huge assumption that some nice man playing chess might be trying to molest her child. FWIW, men can be clueless (I live with quite a few) and he might just enjoy teaching kids how to play chess. I would have loved to have an older man teach my boys how to play. It is assumptions like this that make me have to have talks with my boys about women/girls who will manipulate them and then accuse them of something - I have to teach them to protect themselves from these type of assumptions, accusations, and women. Maybe this man was never taught to protect himself.

 

Me too. :(I feel so horrible for today's young men.

[regentrude]

After he left, he rode off on a bicycle. It did make me judge him more that he didn't drive away. I know SO who won't get a drivers license because it would require the SO stamp. .

 

Good grief!!!

My husband bikes everywhere... so does that mean people look at him in a suspicious way and assume he is an SO??? he bikes for exercise, environment, and fun.

What a thoroughly sick country.

[Murphy101]

Good grief!!!

My husband bikes everywhere... so does that mean people look at him in a suspicious way and assume he is an SO??? he bikes for exercise, environment, and fun.

What a thoroughly sick country.

 

I know. :001_unsure:

[Miss Marple]

As a single woman who was childless until age 40, but still highly interested in kids' literacy, this kind of discussion bugs me. I do not agree that the children's area of the library should be off limits to unaccompanied adults. I also do not believe there is anything wrong with an adult speaking kindly to a child about something the child seems interested in, in a public place to which the child has been sent (not abducted or enticed), with or without his parent present.

 

I think it's a shame that this man, who for all we know was just being kind, was essentially accused of being a child molester. No wonder he left the library after that.

 

Have you ever heard of male teachers? Are they not allowed to utilize the library on behalf of their students? How about dads and grandpas?

 

What's creepy is a man enticing a child into an isolated place, or laying his hands on a child with whom he has no close relationship.

 

I teach my kids that they should speak to strangers. They should be polite to them, and ignoring an elderly man is rude. What children should learn to never do is go anywhere with a stranger, keep secrets for a stranger, or let anyone (stranger or not) invade their privacy.

 

You are a stranger yourself, to most kids. Do you feel like a menace? Don't you want to be able to be friendly and help a child feel important via an innocent verbal exchange? Yet if you had male anatomy, that would make you a creep?

 

:iagree:

[Julie Smith]

Okay. Now I'm curious what is SO? I thought it meant Significant Other.

 

My husband also bikes everywhere, so does everyone in our family. I even bike to grocery shop.

 

So I'm confused about this judgement about biking. I can image at the same time a person being judged for driving a van, and then is judged for have a vehicle big enough to hold a child.

[Murphy101]

Okay. Now I'm curious what is SO? I thought it meant Significant Other.

 

My husband also bikes everywhere, so does everyone in our family. I even bike to grocery shop.

 

So I'm confused about this judgement about biking. I can image at the same time a person being judged for driving a van, and then is judged for have a vehicle big enough to hold a child.

 

Sex offender

[Farrar]

I hate to play devil's advocate on this, but in an iffy area, I'd still check out the restroom before sending my small kids in there. Just to make sure nobody is in there quietly hanging out.

 

I'm sorry, but if a person of the opposite gender "poked a head in" to the bathroom to check it, that would be way more creepy to me than most of the other behaviors discussed here. I understand what you're saying, but I never check the men's room before I send in my kids.

[LibraryLover]

Why am I still reading? Gads.

 

Think about it. A bike...there is no trunk. No back seat. Seems even more innocent now.

[Miss Marple]

Why am I still reading? Gads.

 

Think about it. A bike...there is no trunk. No back seat. Seems even more innocent now.

 

:lol: I like your logic :D

[regentrude]

I hate to play devil's advocate on this, but in an iffy area, I'd still check out the restroom before sending my small kids in there. Just to make sure nobody is in there quietly hanging out.

 

I guess that should mean you would find it acceptable for a man to look into the ladies room before sending his daughter in, to make sure no deranged female is quietly hanging out in the bathroom?

Or would THAT make him a creep?