Here's what I don't get about the "keeper of the home" thing

[Danestress]

I like being a homemaker. I have a pretty nice house thanks to DH, and I am grateful to be able to be homeschooler and full-time homemaker.

 

But it's not rocket science.

 

No one had to teach me to run a vacuum, fold laundry, boil pasta. Most of my cooking skills were gained through trial and error or through reading cookbooks or women's magazines. I learned as I went. I remember my mother teaching me to iron a shirt (collar first, then wrist bands, etc) but she taught me very little other than by example. She never let me cook because she wanted *her* kitchen to look pristine at all times. She never made me do dishes because I needed to study (she said). But it's not like I didn't figure out how to wash dishes when the time came.

 

I'm not putting down housework or the value of doing it well. I think it's a great vocation. But I think I do do it well, for the most part, and I don't think I needed extensive "training" in learning how to do that. I think we all learn as we go a bit.

 

Even if I made an major effort to teach my child everything I know (from finances to planning meals, basic cooking, caring for the home, how to keep records, pick good produce, store linens, make homemade cleaners, scrup a bathroom property, treat carpets stains, polish silver, arrange flowers etc etc etc) I feel like I could do that in a few hours a week.

 

I don't understand why there would ever be an "either or" when the choice is an academically vigorious educations or homekeeping skills. It seems to me that anyone could have both, and quite easily.

[mommaduck]

I'm glad it came so easily for you. There are those that it doesn't.

 

Also, how many children do you have and are you managing more than a house (say livestock, garden, orchard, etc)? How many modern conveniences do you have vs how much you do yourself or by hand?

[mollie]

i know that it's not easy for some people, but really, how long would it take the average person to learn it all, a year? two years? i do see the value in knowing how to keep a home and am glad that when i married i knew what to do in the house and how to run things efficiently (although i've learned much more at this point!). but i do think that there comes a point where a young girl has learned just about all she'll learn in keeping a house and normally could benefit from turning her attention elsewhere until she marries.

 

also, i know from experience that keeping my own home is different than keeping my mother's home, or helping her keep it. i do thinkgs differently, i like different things, my husband is a different person than her husband who has different likes and dislikes, my children are my own children and my responsibility for them is much different than my responsibility in helping my mother with her children. you can't really train to be a housewife and homekeeper until you are a wife and have a home.

[mom31257]

I am just starting to learn more about the "keeper at home" concept. I feel that it is more than just the "how" of keeping a home, but the right attitudes in it, including being the support for your husband that he needs, parenting, etc. I think the people who teach this are trying to reclaim something lost in the minds of women, that it is okay to be home. I feel that the attitude from all my teachers was "you can have it all, career, family, home". But no one said how stressful it can be to have all that. I see the many moms in my church who work and kids are in school. I here them complain about how little time there is for housework and cooking, the tons of homework the kids have, etc. I'm grateful I am home and we are homeschooling.

 

My mother was not good at keeping our home. Other than cooking and laundry, she really didn't do much else. She didn't take much time either. Of course, I didn't have much example to follow. I lived with my grandparents when I got out of college (apartment in their basement), and I learned more of my cooking and even car care during that time.

 

I feel that there is also an atmosphere that women should choose to do this rather than academics, that there are clearly defined roles for men and women. I worked before having kids, and only part-time educational things since (tutoring, co-op classes, etc.). I'm glad I have my math degree, because it has afforded us good extra income while I've been home.

 

I'm telling my dd to pray and ask what God would have her do. I am also telling her to keep in mind that she may have kids some day and want to be home with them. There's nothing wrong with asking Him to give her a desire to do something that she could also do from home.

 

Amy of GA

Darin's wife for 17 years

11yo dd

5yo ds

[Jennifer in MI]

I agree. I mean, I "teach" these things to my children through example. They all get chores (boys and girls - well, not my girl yet. She's only 2!), they all cook, etc. We constantly talk about budgeting and how to manage money. Dh is teaching them to do simple home repair (again, boys and girls) and car maintenance, etc. But, this just gets done because we're involved parents.

[anewday]

I think there is more to learn in homekeeping than just the physical aspect of it also - it's a very service oriented, "unthankful" job in many ways. I was not raised to do or value home keeping. As a result, I think what I struggle in most today, now married almost 13 years, is a "me" focus/selfishness.

 

I want better for my daughters. I want them to not only do well in their work (as unto the Lord), but to find joy, contentment and a desire to serve in the work. I feel I will always struggle with that.

[Asma_08]

I could not disagree more. Almost everyone I know struggles with maintaining their home, especially those who were college educated as they come out with the attitude you just mentioned, housework is menial, beneath them. They have a college degree, they should be out doing something great, not cleaning toilets and endlessly picking up after kids.

 

This is something that I would love to conquer. When I see some of you on here with organized, clean homes I get so jealous. I would love to be a great homemaker but I wasn't raised that way and the years I spent in college really don't help foster an attitude of selfless service to family.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

There absolutely doesn't have to be an either or mindset. I have a college education, but, right now, I'm a full-time homemaker/mom. For me, it wasn't rocket science either, but, I can tell you that for a lot of younger women I know, it's very difficult. They've never really been taught how to grocery shop, how to plan nutritious meals, how to do a load of laundry, how to take care of a child and all of that. It was all done for them. And even if you do know how to do all of that, it's good to learn why we do it. It's a blessing to our family, it's freeing to be organized and well-planned. I believe that's why KOH is something people use. It's a good thing!

[Jennifer in MI]

I think there is more to learn in homekeeping than just the physical aspect of it also - it's a very service oriented, "unthankful" job in many ways. I was not raised to do or value home keeping. As a result, I think what I struggle in most today, now married almost 13 years, is a "me" focus/selfishness.

 

I want better for my daughters. I want them to not only do well in their work (as unto the Lord), but to find joy, contentment and a desire to serve in the work. I feel I will always struggle with that.

 

Great point. Can I ask - how are you teaching this? 'Cause I'd love for you to come to my house and teach ME too! Seriously - I struggle with this as well. I go through times where I feel very taken advantage of. Overall, I do know and understand that everything I do I do for God and my family. But, when it comes down to the nitty gritty of scrubbing the floors or toilets, the same gratefulness aren't there!

[Erica in PA]

I like being a homemaker. I have a pretty nice house thanks to DH, and I am grateful to be able to be homeschooler and full-time homemaker.

 

But it's not rocket science.

 

No one had to teach me to run a vacuum, fold laundry, boil pasta. Most of my cooking skills were gained through trial and error or through reading cookbooks or women's magazines. I learned as I went. I remember my mother teaching me to iron a shirt (collar first, then wrist bands, etc) but she taught me very little other than by example. She never let me cook because she wanted *her* kitchen to look pristine at all times. She never made me do dishes because I needed to study (she said). But it's not like I didn't figure out how to wash dishes when the time came.

 

I'm not putting down housework or the value of doing it well. I think it's a great vocation. But I think I do do it well, for the most part, and I don't think I needed extensive "training" in learning how to do that. I think we all learn as we go a bit.

 

Even if I made an major effort to teach my child everything I know (from finances to planning meals, basic cooking, caring for the home, how to keep records, pick good produce, store linens, make homemade cleaners, scrup a bathroom property, treat carpets stains, polish silver, arrange flowers etc etc etc) I feel like I could do that in a few hours a week.

 

I don't understand why there would ever be an "either or" when the choice is an academically vigorious educations or homekeeping skills. It seems to me that anyone could have both, and quite easily.

 

:iagree: I said something along these lines in the other thread, but I think you said it better! I learned everything I needed to know in a very short time. I can't see making these things a central focus of a girl's life before it's needed.

 

Erica

[NCMom]

'cause I did not read that thread and rarely read much on the "Keeper at Home" movement, but I couldn't do jack when I got married and it did not come easily. I never even had an example. :001_smile:

 

I don't think being a keeper of the home and a rigorous education are mutually exclusive AT ALL, but I will say my goals for life skill type things, while not rocket science by any means, are still much, much more involved than what you listed.

 

Most (all?) of my children's learning in these areas has been experiential and certainly that means we have always had plenty of time for book larnin'!

 

Georgia

[PineFarmMom]

 

Even if I made an major effort to teach my child everything I know (from finances to planning meals, basic cooking, caring for the home, how to keep records, pick good produce, store linens, make homemade cleaners, scrup a bathroom property, treat carpets stains, polish silver, arrange flowers etc etc etc) I feel like I could do that in a few hours a week.

 

I don't understand why there would ever be an "either or" when the choice is an academically vigorious educations or homekeeping skills. It seems to me that anyone could have both, and quite easily.

 

I think we choose both. I do require much of the kids as far as housework, cooking, etc., but they are also required to do schoolwork and working to be prepared for college. For me, though, I learned a lot of what I know about being a housewife in a difficult way with lots of guidance from books and websites. I an disorganized by nature. I think I could have really focused more on my kids and on hobbies earlier on if I had had a better grasp of the ins and outs of it. It sounds like maybe this type thing just comes naturally for you, and I am a living testimony that it doesn't for everyone. :lol:

 

I want each child to have a good grasp of these life skills before the real world. It certainly isn't my main push with my dd, though. I hope she chooses to get married, have children, and stay home with them, but God knows His plans for her and I do not. It's not going to be the ONLY preparation I give her for life. That would be short-sited of me. I know of too many female missionaries who have never been married or had children. I'd rather her be more rounded and prepared for a wide spectrum of choices rather than just what a certain group thinks is the way to be a "good woman". I desperately want a Mary and not a Martha lifestyle for her. :)

 

Teresa

[3lilreds in NC]

As someone who struggles to figure out the homemaking thing, even after 13 years, I envy you that it comes easily.

 

The reason that things like FlyLady exist is that there are those of us for whom being neat and organized does not come naturally. My mom is a fabulous woman, but fabulous housekeeper, she is not.

 

My problem is not a lack of ability or willingness (OK, the thought of cleaning floors doesn't flip my skirt, but I can do it well). It's the clutter that I don't seem to be able to get a handle on. Therefore, cleaning anything takes a LOT longer because I have to pick up and deal with so much stuff first.

 

I'm working on it. I'd like to think I'm getting better. But it does not come easily to me.

[PineFarmMom]

As someone who struggles to figure out the homemaking thing, even after 13 years, I envy you that it comes easily.

 

The reason that things like FlyLady exist is that there are those of us for whom being neat and organized does not come naturally. My mom is a fabulous woman, but fabulous housekeeper, she is not.

 

My problem is not a lack of ability or willingness (OK, the thought of cleaning floors doesn't flip my skirt, but I can do it well). It's the clutter that I don't seem to be able to get a handle on. Therefore, cleaning anything takes a LOT longer because I have to pick up and deal with so much stuff first.

 

I'm working on it. I'd like to think I'm getting better. But it does not come easily to me.

 

:iagree: Oh, wow, you sound like you live my life. It has taken huge steps on my part to get even to the point of being mid-range organized and good at housekeeping. I'm a good cook and that's fun to me, but organizational/cleaning skills have been hard-fought battles for me.

 

I think some people have different things they struggle with. I know moms that just flat don't know how to enjoy their children, how to have fun with their children. I'm a pro at that. The fun thing is one of the reasons I have a hard time with the cleaning thing. :lol:

 

Teresa

[Hikin' Mama]

I don't think it's rocket science either. That is, I don't think the duties (vacuuming, laundry, dishes, etc.) of keeping a home are hard or even need much time to learn. I don't remember my mom "teaching" me how to do any of that. But I know how, and I do it well. ;)

 

However, I do think some people are more organized (or in my case, anal :tongue_smilie:) than others, and I think it is this organization that helps a home run more smoothly. And I don't think organization is a good character trait, or lack of organization is a bad character trait, but something we are born with. So this lack of organization will show up anywhere, whether it be home or career. But, in my experience, people who lack organization are very strong in other things, like creativity, flexibility, making lemonade out of life's lemons. These are things I've had to learn in order to live a more peaceful life.

 

I've noticed this in my children, too. One of them is not strong on the home arts :D, the other two naturally pick up after themselves, prepare food for themselves, tidy up before they leave a room. I've worked with (harped on) the first much more, but the child still doesn't get it sometimes. So I just keep working, and trying to be gentle about it. But this child did learn to do his own laundry, because he couldn't seem to get his dirty clothes to the laundry room. So I told him he would have to do it himself. In about two minutes I gave him a washing machine and dryer tutorial, and now if he needs it washed, he knows how to do it.

[Asma_08]

Here is an article from a website I love. I think she really nails it.

[Remudamom]

I disagree. We had a maid when I was growing up, she and mom did everything and I did nothing. I could barely make my own bed. Mom even sent her to my apartment to clean for me when I was in college.

 

It took me so many years to figure out how to run a house, and I'm still not very good at it. (What was my childhood spent on??? Take a wild guess!)

 

My girls are expected to run the house with me and prepare for college. Why in the world would you have to choose between the two?

[Anne/Ankara]

Well, actually, the "job" of homeschooling certainly made "keeper of the home" more interesting for me! I think I would have been definitely challenged if my whole intellectual and professional interests were directed solely into house keeping. So I certainly want my children to have a vital intellectual stimulation, should they choose to be home with young children.

[mollie]

i have a graduate degree and went to college for a long time, including the first year i was married. i don't think staying home is menial or that i should be "out there" working or whatever. i think my years in school greatly prepared me for being home, being diligent, setting goals and achieving them in my home, multi-tasking, and being a better thinker. school also helped me realize that there is more to me than my ability to make a household run smoothly, my other interests and abilities aren't something i am unable to do at home, they help me be a better wife, mother, and homekeeper.

 

anyone read margaret kim peterson's keeping house, the litany of every day life? it's the best book (IMO!) out there that makes a case for keeping house, caring for and serving others, and finding joy and fulfilment in doing so.

[Danestress]

I'm glad it came so easily for you. There are those that it doesn't.

 

Also, how many children do you have and are you managing more than a house (say livestock, garden, orchard, etc)? How many modern conveniences do you have vs how much you do yourself or by hand?

 

I only have three children, though I think most people learn how to handle a big family by adding more and more children - not by studying about it when they are young. Your children will have a HUGE advantage if they choose to have large families because they grew up in one. Just seeing it and being part of it is the best training - more than having your Mom sit down and go through a book about managing a family.

 

As for the other skills, I don't have orchards or livestock. If I suddenly did, I guess I would be in trouble! I'm glad I didn't forgo an academic training in order to learn how to raise livestock since my husband's career and lifestyle make livestock as poor options for us.

 

Anyway, if you have gardens and livestock and orchards, you kids are getting a great education just by living with you and being part of the family. They probably could still do rigorous academic work (and probably do - I'm not saying they don't). If you don't have orchards and livestock, then trying to teach your kids to manage an orchard seems sort of impractical. I guess I'll tell mine "if you ever marry a guy with an orchard, that's something you will have to learn at the time." Luckily, we can all continue to learn new things throughout our lives.

 

So I am still thinking that the "keeping home" skills that I assume almost all girls will have (marriage, a family of some size, a home to keep) can be introduced alongside more academic training.

[TXMomof4]

I do think it is the attitude that is being taught, not necessarily the skills. My children are capable of helping with the laundry, doing dishes, cleaning the house. Unfortunately, they have learned the attitude that this is an unpleasant task (from me) rather than being cheerful, happy helpers. My attitude needs to undergo a major shift before I will be able to teach it to my children. It is a priveledge (sp?) to be able to stay home and care for my family and my home. There are lots of people I know who would love to have this opportunity. But all I see it the grudging thankless aspect of it too many times. I can't tell you how many times a day I catch myself thinking "Why is this MY job?!?" rather than doing the job and doing it well. I don't find any joy in the homekeeping aspect of it and I think that is something we are raised with. I'm working on it though! Hopefully, if my children are in my position later, they will be better armed to deal with being a housewife and mother than I am.

[Mallorie]

I haven't read all the replies, but wanted to throw in my $.02.

 

I was raised with chores, we cooked and cleaned. Knowing how to do this was not rocket science for me when I became an adult either, but running an efficient household is much trickier.

 

It's one thing to just have to do basic "running of the house". What about those of us who have to pinch pennies? My husband (thank God) has a good job right now. But his hours have been cut since before Christmas. We are frugal people, we place priority on putting away savings, don't have things like cable t.v. and for the longest time didn't have dsl. But as a one income family, in this economy, and with my husbands trade, things are tight. Really tight. We've been okay so far simply because we do not use things like credit cards, and have not over-extended ourselves. But it's still tight.

 

So now, I have to make my money count. I have to figure out places to cut costs. I have to know how to bake and cook from scratch, make a cleaner out of baking soda and vinegar. How to stretch a chicken for two meals.

 

Now, I don't want to make my life sound like a drudgery. Being in a situation where frugality is forced has taught me many things. And it's allowed me to free myself from the "keep up with the joneses" attitude and thank God for what I do have, which really is a lot. My kids are healthy, right now my dh is working and i'm able to stay home and try this thing called homeschooling.

 

I guess that's my take on "keeper of the home". I am so much more efficient now than I was when we were first married 12 years ago. :)

[Erica in PA]

I disagree. We had a maid when I was growing up, she and mom did everything and I did nothing. I could barely make my own bed. Mom even sent her to my apartment to clean for me when I was in college.

 

It took me so many years to figure out how to run a house, and I'm still not very good at it. (What was my childhood spent on??? Take a wild guess!)

 

My girls are expected to run the house with me and prepare for college. Why in the world would you have to choose between the two?

 

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with? Everyone's experience may vary. Some people take longer to learn some skills than others, I'm sure. And I agree with you that doing both is great, though I would add that that goes for boys as well. I'm all for children and young people of all ages learning to be responsible around the house.

 

It's the special emphasis on girls alone learning domestic chores as a special emphasis from a young age, often coupled with a skepticism about whether girls should really go to college at all, that makes me a bit uncomfortable.

 

Erica

[Erica in PA]

Here is an article from a website I love. I think she really nails it.

 

Hmmm.. now this has got me thinking. I agree, it's definitely good not to look down on homemaking. It has many benefits for families. However, reading it, I had to admit... I could never be a homemaker in that sense. Artful decorating and such will never be my thing. I'm not interested in it, not oriented in that way, and I am sure many other women feel the same way. Is that considered wrong in the "keeper" movement? Is this supposed to be the way that every woman feels and behaves? And should every girl be raised to think this way? My hunch is that even if I had been raised to think this way, I still wouldn't fit into this mold. I don't know how many girls would.

 

My primary interests are reading, learning, teaching, and raising my children. I take care of my home and cook because it's practical for me to do so, since my husband is working during the day. He does help when he is home. But I don't stay home because I love the art of homemaking... I stay home because dh and I are committed to homeschooling, and having a parent present to care for our children. The children are my focus, not the home. When I am through homeschooling, I will likely further my education, and pursue a career outside the home, hopefully splitting many of the housekeeping responsibilities with my husband. I'm only planning on being home full-time while my children are. So maybe that makes me less likely to think of homemaking as the special talent of every good woman, and less likely to encourage my dd to have this mindset. Even though, as I said, I don't look down on women who do.

 

Erica

[mommaduck]

I just realised that my reply may have sounded snotty...it wasn't meant to (here's the target on my back ;) and thank you for replying back so graciously).

 

You're right. I grew up in a home where mom worked and I wasn't taught much of anything. I knew how to do laundry, wash dishes, and mop the floor. That was it and those were things made miserable to me because they were taught in a very OCD way. As an adult I would rather give up than keep failing...I finally learned that things don't have to be perfect. Balance is an issue for me. I also only grew up with 1 of my siblings and here I have 7 children. I also landed in places where I have to garden, sew, keep goats, and fruit trees. Yes, it's a learning experience. My stepfather also did all the cooking, so I learned to cook AFTER I married (and I still make some disasters...thankfully my husband rescues me). I want things easier for my children, so I teach them. But I also encourage a college education.

[Kim in Appalachia]

I struggled to understand how to clean well. I didn't realize how much needed to be clean. I could do surface stuff, but for other things I learned because it became gross, or because my landlord demanded that I clean better in order to receive by security deposit back. :tongue_smilie:

 

I still struggle with maintaining an orderly home and getting all the chores done. It doesn't always come naturally.

 

But it is not an either or thing. I just need to be careful to train my kids how to clean (something I not good at). They need to be "educated" as well.

 

Girls, and boys, need to learn to care for a home, and receive a good education. Girls need to understand/learn, that the responsibility will most likely fall to them, and that it is an privilege to care for the home.

[Jami]

Hmmm.. now this has got me thinking. I agree, it's definitely good not to look down on homemaking. It has many benefits for families. However, reading it, I had to admit... I could never be a homemaker in that sense. Artful decorating and such will never be my thing. I'm not interested in it, not oriented in that way, and I am sure many other women feel the same way. Is that considered wrong in the "keeper" movement? Is this supposed to be the way that every woman feels and behaves? And should every girl be raised to think this way? My hunch is that even if I had been raised to think this way, I still wouldn't fit into this mold. I don't know how many girls would.

 

My primary interests are reading, learning, teaching, and raising my children. I take care of my home and cook because it's practical for me to do so, since my husband is working during the day. He does help when he is home. But I don't stay home because I love the art of homemaking... I stay home because dh and I are committed to homeschooling, and having a parent present to care for our children. The children are my focus, not the home. When I am through homeschooling, I will likely further my education, and pursue a career outside the home, hopefully splitting many of the housekeeping responsibilities with my husband. I'm only planning on being home full-time while my children are. So maybe that makes me less likely to think of homemaking as the special talent of every good woman, and less likely to encourage my dd to have this mindset. Even though, as I said, I don't look down on women who do.

 

Erica

 

 

This is exactly how I am, Erica. And my mother before me. And her home is welcoming, if not beautiful, but always open to others. It's a fun, pleasant, moderately dusty home. And that's okay with her, and it's okay with me for my home. I do have a friend who is very artistic in her homemaking, creating beauty around her is part of who she is and I love being in her home too. But it's harder for her in some ways to have young children at home, who make messes and upset the peace and beauty.

[Sweetpeach]

Well, actually, the "job" of homeschooling certainly made "keeper of the home" more interesting for me! I think I would have been definitely challenged if my whole intellectual and professional interests were directed solely into house keeping. So I certainly want my children to have a vital intellectual stimulation, should they choose to be home with young children.

 

:iagree:

 

If I weren't so committed to homeschooling, I would not be into the stay-at-home thing. Quite frankly, I admire women who manage to stay connected with their partners, love-on their kids and have a job they love. Truthfully, I hope there's an "after-hs'ing" phase that I can fall into and enjoy like I've enjoyed hs'ing.

 

We're all so very diverse, and I like it that way. (Exactly what Erica in PA said -- yup, that's what I think too!)

 

Cheerio, Tricia

[FriedClams]

Here's my 2 cents -

 

I think the "keeping" of the home is a lot like day care - other people can watch my kids and they'll likely be safe - but they're not being "raised" and grown and loved. Other people can clean my house and cook my meals - but it's not my home being kept and there isn't the same level of love in the job. It's the difference between being a "home - maker" and someone who's "just home". I think the calling of a keeper and mom are important and should be taught, encouraged and highly regarded from birth - just like being a doctor or astronaut. I want my daughters to be well prepared for both and to let God do the calling.

[nmoira]

The part I don't get is the identity part... I'm raising my child to be, or so-and-so is "A Keeper of the Home." Yeah, we ALL, regardless of gender, should learn basic homemaking skills, and in such a way that it becomes habit, second nature. But there's a big difference between saying that we should know how to clean a toilet and having that become part of our identity.

[nmoira]

 

If I weren't so committed to homeschooling, I would not be into the stay-at-home thing.

:iagree: Me too.

[Emmy]

I feel much the same as the OP - I can't imagine the need to focus on it so profoundly because it's just not that hard. I do think that cultivating an attitude of service to one's family is a good idea. Honestly I think the thing that bothers me the most when people talk "keeper of the home" is the idea that people are raising their daughters to be XYZ. My dh and I are raising our kids to be what *they* want to be.

 

Before we had kids I worked in a really cool professional job and traveled a lot with that job. It expanded my horizons incredibly and was a wonderful experience for me. Having worked in that capacity I really do understand the pressures and ins/outs of my DH's career life and I feel like that part of my life has made me a better wife and partner to him. If I had daughters - which I don't - I would encourage them to go to college and enjoy a career before kids. I meet so many moms whose world has never extended beyond their own home, church and small community and have never even worked full time. I think that experience has been priceless for me and it's what I would want for my daughters.

[swellmomma]

Like mentioned before there is more to it than just learning the skill it is the attitude that goes with it. I was not really ever taught the skill, I was just expected to clean up at home or be punished. This resulted in 2 things, a) not knowing what I was doing and b) resentment for having to do it. While I have learned the how's as an adult I still harbor that feeling of resentment and as a result my house is often a sty and an embarassment. Keeping the home is something I struggle with daily. WHile it will never be easy due to the type of children I have, and being on my own, if I had learned the right attitude from the start that it is a joy to serve my family I know it would not be nearly the struggle it is.

 

I don't want being keeper of the home to be my dd's sole vocation, I plan on having them attend college, BUT I do want to instill that attitude of joy while serving her family as they grow.

[Robin Hood]

I haven't read any books on the topic, but I would venture to say it's more of a philosophy that is being brought into the mind. Women in careers has been pushed for so long that being a homemaker began to be frowned upon. We want it to be respectable in the minds of young girls. Spending time with our girls as we do our homemaking with a good attitude and joy, re-enforces that it is an awesome and beautiful responsibility.

[Kathleen in VA]

Here is an article from a website I love. I think she really nails it.

 

 

Precisely!

[mommaduck]

The identity part for some of us is that our home is our priority. No job, career, volunteer service, etc. can replace the home. We only have our husbands for as long as they are alive, we only have our children till they are grown...our time of most service in our homes are a priority. Therefore, when teaching our daughters to be keepers at home, it's not that they are forbidden as females to have a job, but rather that they learn the order of priority. When/if they settle to be wives and mothers, their role will/should also center mainly/solely around the home for a time.

[Danestress]

I haven't read any books on the topic, but I would venture to say it's more of a philosophy that is being brought into the mind. Women in careers has been pushed for so long that being a homemaker began to be frowned upon. We want it to be respectable in the minds of young girls. Spending time with our girls as we do our homemaking with a good attitude and joy, re-enforces that it is an awesome and beautiful responsibility.

 

 

I like how you put that. Above all, I want my children, male and female, to find something that gives them real joy and satisfaction in life, and also to learn to be content with some of the "chores" that make life hard but are just part of living here on planet earth.

 

I just hope that all my children, whether they will be housewifes, electricians, dog trainers, lawyers, or Orange Julius makers at the mall, will have a really first rate education. I don't think the right kind of education is ever wasted. And I hope that whatever my children do, they will never stop educating themselves. I think thats my worst fear for any of my children - that whatever their vocation is, they will stop being curious. Which is one reason why I think being a homeschooling Mom is the greatest job description on earth. You are always learning!

 

So I personally would be so so resentful if my mother had stopped encouraging me to challenge myself academically because I wouldn't "need" those things as a housewife.

[dangermom]

I'm another who has struggled with this part of life. My mom tried to teach me, but I was willfully ignorant most of the time! I'm disorganized and cluttered. We've been married for 12 years now and I'm still learning--before we started homeschooling K I went on a self-improvement campaign to learn to be more organized and a better homemaker, and I have gotten better. But my lovely house-running schedule is more of a dream than a reality during the school year. I've been spending a lot of this week decluttering and reorganizing a lot of the house, now that we're out for the summer.

 

I do think a lot of it is attitude; I think it's important to come to homemaking remembering that having a comfortable, clean, welcoming home is a great goal, and that I'm not a princess--somebody's got to do all this stuff and it's mostly me, 'cause my husband is out earning a living and I support that, since I like eating regularly. I don't hate housework, but it sure doesn't come naturally. I'll never be great at home dec and that's fine--I pretty much decorate with books and quilts, because I'm great at sewing and having lots of books around. :D

 

So I hope to teach my kids a good attitude and good skills for them to take with them. I hope they won't drive their college roommates as crazy as I did mine! (It just didn't occur to me to do dishes or clean the shower...) Of course I believe in doing both academics and homemaking skills, and I'm a lot better at the academics part. I would never try to teach my daughters that they should expect to always be at home and that homemaking will be their primary duty in life--but IMO homemaking is a skill-set that everyone needs (male or female), and that is far too undervalued today. Housework isn't beneath anyone; it just is. We all make messes and we should all clean them up.

[Reya]

I want better for my daughters. I want them to not only do well in their work (as unto the Lord), but to find joy, contentment and a desire to serve in the work. I feel I will always struggle with that.

 

Or they could just work (PT, FT, whatever) and HIRE someone. That'd be a lot closer to the Biblical ideal, after all. None of the wealthy women in the Bible every scrubbed a single floor. There's no need or moral imperative for your daughters to, either, if they can afford not to. If they work a job that pays $30/hr and pay a housekeeper $10-15/hr (today's money, of course), then it only make SENSE to work a little extra and gain that time with the extra income to be with the kids and husband. No one's telling husbands that they must be mindless low-skill manual workers and that if they don't like it, they have a problem with their "hearts." Why are women different?

 

Even relatively well off two-income people today don't often have outside help because they want to use every cent for "fun" things. They want to buy the absolute biggest house they can afford, for example, rather than setting aside some money to hire someone to help maintain a slightly smaller one. But SOMEONE'S got to clean it, and if you don't set aside that money, then the only person that's left is very often YOU! Women don't see the costs of their own time clearly enough to keep from overburdening themselves these days.

[Kathleen in VA]

The identity part for some of us is that our home is our priority. No job, career, volunteer service, etc. can replace the home. We only have our husbands for as long as they are alive, we only have our children till they are grown...our time of most service in our homes are a priority. Therefore, when teaching our daughters to be keepers at home, it's not that they are forbidden as females to have a job, but rather that they learn the order of priority. When/if they settle to be wives and mothers, their role will/should also center mainly/solely around the home for a time.

 

This is it in a nutshell. I was raised to be a career woman. I went to college, got a degree and went to work. I did not get married until I was 27. The first time I went to the grocery store after I was married I came home with a broom, a mop and some dishwashing liquid :).

 

I'm still struggling with making my home my #1 priority. By that I certainly do not mean housecleaning (although cleaning is important for health and peace). I mean the overall sense that creating a peaceful, beautiful haven for my family to feel cozy and loved in is why I am at home. It is a way of expressing my love for them.

 

At almost 50 I have yet to get a regular meal plan, cleaning plan, school plan, shopping plan, etc. in place. I think I might have been labeled ADHD as a child (if they had been doing that waaaaaay back then). It is hard for me to think in a straight line - I ricochet from one thing to next.

 

I definitely need to read homemaking books and focus on keeping a home that is orderly, warm and hospitable.

 

My 15yo daughter is learning to a home keeper now. She is also an excellent pianist and hopes to earn a scholarship to college through her music. She loves scrapbooking, quilting, baking, cooking and other home arts, but she also loves studying history and literature. I am not restricting her in any way to pursue her interests. But I sure hope when she gets married, if that is God's will, she will come home from the grocery store the first time with more than a broom, a mop and a bottle of dishwashing liquid.

 

HTH

[Reya]

:iagree: I said something along these lines in the other thread, but I think you said it better! I learned everything I needed to know in a very short time. I can't see making these things a central focus of a girl's life before it's needed.

 

Erica

 

Many women discover how little actual work is involved and feel compelled to invent more to make themselves feel more proud and more valuable and all-around BETTER, basically. So they decide that they HAVE to have a flock of chickens to be really, really good mommies and wives. And maybe a goat for cheese. And a vegetable garden. And, of course, there are pets to take care of--cats, dogs, horses. And they can their own food. And sew their clothes. And make all the curtains and decorative pillows by hand. And make all the decorative stuff in their house by hand, too. And make every single meal not only from scratch but from time-consuming, elaborate recipes--and cook every day.

 

I'm not talking about farmwives here, who have real duties and who are essentially employed as the other half of a farming unit. I'm talking about women who make this work for themselves. And it is made-up work. It's hobbies in the guise of work. Yes, I'm preparing my first vegetable plot--but I know that it's a hobby. I'm honest with myself. I do handicrafts, too, but I recognize that they are hobbies, too.

 

Make-work and hobbies aren't necessary for keeping a good home. They also don't make you a better mother or wife. There is NO reason to believe that you must actually even perform ANY of the labor yourself, in fact. It's just one of the realities of modern life that most women do, whether they really have to or not--a legacy of WWII.

[CLHCO]

Okay, maybe not missed - I didn't read all replies.

 

It's not rocket science but it does take time and habits. I had 2 preemie newborns when I was thrown into it and I couldn't cook, I had no idea how to do any household maintenance, I think I knew how to sew a button at best, I couldn't decorate, had no experience on regular upkeep with even the dishes (my family let them sit a day or two then someone scrubbed), couldn't keep a houseplant alive, didn't know what cleaners worked best where or what were the best tools for the job, etc.

 

Yes, I learned it all. It's not rocket science. It's just a lot easier to learn when you're a teenager than when you're sleep deprived and learning how to change a diaper on a preemie at the same time. The experience didn't benefit the attitude either.

 

There is also an art to homemaking that I have spent so much time trying to establish habits for simply upkeep that I've missed out on. One can bake a perfect pie or buy a frozen one, make window coverings or use what the house came with, preserve your home strawberries or buy a jar. My default does end up being the easiest route because I have to go learn to do all this while juggling children's needs. I'm able to do more now that I have teens who can help with the house and I can learn with.

 

Once upon a time there was far more that a home keeper had to do. She had to preserve her food, entertain, sew everything, iron far more often, etc. You don't have to today and we certainly can get away with neglecting much of the home upkeep or teaching it on the side. I think those days may be numbered though. The dollar is falling, gas prices show no signs of letting up, we've been living off of debt and foreign products for a couple generations now, and nothing, even the mighty American consumer empire will last forever.

 

So you know, my kids are doing advanced studies, college or trade. But we are trying to add in the things they could end up needing in the future that we take for granted today. Even if the need doesn't come for them, it may come for my grandchildren and someone has to know it.

[Asma_08]

Or they could just work (PT, FT, whatever) and HIRE someone. That'd be a lot closer to the Biblical ideal, after all. None of the wealthy women in the Bible every scrubbed a single floor. There's no need or moral imperative for your daughters to, either, if they can afford not to. If they work a job that pays $30/hr and pay a housekeeper $10-15/hr (today's money, of course), then it only make SENSE to work a little extra and gain that time with the extra income to be with the kids and husband. No one's telling husbands that they must be mindless low-skill manual workers and that if they don't like it, they have a problem with their "hearts." Why are women different?

 

Even relatively well off two-income people today don't often have outside help because they want to use every cent for "fun" things. They want to buy the absolute biggest house they can afford, for example, rather than setting aside some money to hire someone to help maintain a slightly smaller one. But SOMEONE'S got to clean it, and if you don't set aside that money, then the only person that's left is very often YOU! Women don't see the costs of their own time clearly enough to keep from overburdening themselves these days.

 

So what of the maids' family and children. Or the women who work at Walmart, waitressing, you know the majority of American women who make $20,000 or less. I guess their families don't deserve a well taken of home, a mom at home to make sure the kids stay out of trouble and to help with their homework. Its so much more intellectually challenging to serve the upper class women who are above cleaning their own toilets.

[Nayner]

I struggle with keeping up with housework. I didn't have a good example growing up and I struggle with organization. I have learned some things over the years, but it just doesn't come easy for me.

[HRAAB]

I've been reading these threads with interest because I have never been able to understand why it seems to so often be presented as this either/or situation. I have an older dd who has moved out (attending college and working). She is perfectly capable of running a home. Yet, I never taught it. It was just simply part of living in this household. She had chores, she worked alongside me. It happened. While I had to teach math, writing, grammar, I never felt we had lessons for housekeeping. Keeping the house never took time away from her academics. What little time was spent on explaining the steps of mopping a floor or scrubbing a toilet is hardly even worth mentioning compared to the amount of time we spent on algebra.

 

As for attitude, I don't believe this is something that can be taught. You can't force a proper attitude. It comes from the heart. And here I believe example is the best teacher, and that will be the mom primarily. If mom has a rotten attitude about keeping the house, girls can certainly pick it up. Again, this doesn't take time away from academics; it's part of everyday. While doing lessons, completing chores, etc.

 

Working moms still have tasks to do around the house in the evening or on weekends. Not much different from the children being in school. I went to school but was able to learn how to keep a house from watching my mom and doing my chores in the evening and on weekend. My mom had a fairly decent attitude about it - probably better than mine - so I can't blame her for my snarky moments. Just my personality.

 

So I don't set aside time for learning the skills of housekeeping, nor do I set aside time to teach attitude. For us, it's just part of living.

 

Janet

[Reya]

As someone who struggles to figure out the homemaking thing, even after 13 years, I envy you that it comes easily.

 

The reason that things like FlyLady exist is that there are those of us for whom being neat and organized does not come naturally. My mom is a fabulous woman, but fabulous housekeeper, she is not.

 

My problem is not a lack of ability or willingness (OK, the thought of cleaning floors doesn't flip my skirt, but I can do it well). It's the clutter that I don't seem to be able to get a handle on. Therefore, cleaning anything takes a LOT longer because I have to pick up and deal with so much stuff first.

 

I'm working on it. I'd like to think I'm getting better. But it does not come easily to me.

 

I have a rule about buying things. :-) First, I imagine where they would go and what I'd have to do to maintain them. Then, I think of what practical purpose they'd serve. I have very, very few decorative items, and almost all were inherited!

 

I go through EVERYTHING in the house at least yearly and prune, too. I have a basket that lives in the hall closet for donations and another in the study on a bookcase for items to be eBayed. When they get full, I eBay or donate. I looked at FlyLady once, but if I went through a drawer and threw away 10 things, they'd all be things I need and use! I don't let clutter build up. It helps immensely because I can FIND everything that I want to. I can put my hand on just about anything in my house within 5 minutes of needing it. That's GREAT.

 

And...I hire someone for heavy cleaning once every other week. :-) I have to get everything to the point where scrubbing can easily take place, but it saves me from messing with chemicals while pregnant. I want to get a couple more books out there this time and move up to more regular housekeeping service, but we'll see.

 

Right now, the kitchen is my ongoing nightmare, but since there is 3' of usable counter space total and NO DRAWERS, I'm working with what I've got while I've got it.

[Reya]

So what of the maids' family and children. Or the women who work at Walmart, waitressing, you know the majority of American women who make $20,000 or less. I guess their families don't deserve a well taken of home, a mom at home to make sure the kids stay out of trouble and to help with their homework. Its so much more intellectually challenging to serve the upper class women who are above cleaning their own toilets.

 

Um. That's why you make your your kids go to COLLEGE! Or that they become electricians or plumbers. If you're aiming low for your daughters, then they won't have this freedom of choice because they will have no skills.

 

As for being above it--oh, PLEASE. I WORKED as a house cleaner in high school. I don't enjoy it. I'd rather do something else *at the same wages as I'd pay a housekeeper* and have someone else do the toilets.

 

It doesn't make you a bad person to prefer to do something else. All that matters is that it gets done. To take away that choice from a girl really is a terrible thing--and to make her feel like she just has a bad attitude or is a snob because she doesn't care to do it is silly. If you educate your daughters well so that their time is valuable, then their time will be BETTER spent doing other things. The excellent wife of Proverbs didn't fritter away her time emptying chamberpots. She made real estate deals and ran a cottage industry.

 

If a woman is clearing $15/hr or more, then the economically superior decision is to hire the labor. This would reduce her total working time and allow her to spend more time with, say, her husband and kids. Strange thought as such a thing is.

 

The maid, BTW, is plenty likely to be a teenager or college student. Otherwise, she's someone who either made bad educational decisions or had them made for her by society or her parents. Don't condemn your daughters to having no choice but to be a manual laborer. Give the girl some SKILLS!

[nmoira]

 

When/if they settle to be wives and mothers, their role will/should also center mainly/solely around the home for a time.

I'm a SAHM -- not because it is my duty or obligation, but rather because it made the most sense in our family dynamic given that we were committed to homeschooling and DH made 3x my income. I know too many SAHD's and couples that manage to divide home and work responsibilities to think that the role must be fulfilled by a woman in like circumstances.

[Old Dominion Heather]

The part I don't get is the identity part... I'm raising my child to be, or so-and-so is "A Keeper of the Home." Yeah, we ALL, regardless of gender, should learn basic homemaking skills, and in such a way that it becomes habit, second nature. But there's a big difference between saying that we should know how to clean a toilet and having that become part of our identity.

 

Yes, I don't want my legacy to be that I knew how to clean a toilet! I agree, these skills are ones that should be taught to everyone. I am profoundly grateful to my MIL for letting dh be in charge of all the vacuuming as a kid. He also did his own laundry, cleaned bathrooms, etc... As did I...

 

I went to college; I taught elementary and middle school. It certainly didn't stop me from learning how to clean up, how to put flowers in a vase, how to load a dishwasher or do them by hand.

 

I feel pretty strongly about women going to college and also having the skills to not rely on anyone else for monetary support. It is great if a woman never gets into a bad situation, but if she does, she needs to have the skills and means to support herself so that she can get herself out of the bad place.

[Fourmother]

I haven't read all the replies. I don't agree that being a keeper at home is the exclusive domain of women. Times have changed, and I feel men need to know how to keep house just as well as women. My oldest boy is 21, and I taught him to "keep house" the same way I will teach my only daughter who is 4 yo. I don't know when or if my sons will marry. I don't assume that when they do marry their wives will do all or most of the house work. And I certainly don't plan to have let them live at home with me doing all the house work until they marry. :lol:

 

ETA: I don't know whether or when my daughter will marry either. She must be prepared take care of herself in every way. I will not have her waiting for a man to come along to take care of her financially. I also don't want her hurrying to marry because she thinks it's her job.

 

I've known young men who lived like pigs and primarily ate fast food because their mothers never bothered to teach them to take care of themselves or their homes, my dh being one of the them. (You can tell I have issues.) ;) I also know a woman who doesn't drive because she figures her husband will take care of all that for her. I don't want my children to be like this. I want my future daughters-in-law and my future son-in-law to have mates capable of taking care of themselves and their families in every way -- from bread winning to bread baking.