how should a Christian handle...

[Fleur de Lis]

:iagree:

There is no reason, as a Christian, that you should subject yourself and your children to that kind of behavior.

 

Although a person/family like this might not be a source of physical danger to my children, I would not feel comfortable having my children around the behavior. Our actions speak louder than our words and pretending like this is socially acceptable to our children (regardless of what you tell them at other times) I think sends kids a message that it's really not that bad.

[Fleur de Lis]

if you believe God has called us to show his love to our fellow man (the way Jesus himself did), then you need to do so.

 

It is perfectly possible to love someone as a fellow man and creature of God and to not want them around yourself or your children.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Fleur de Lis

[8circles]

I think it would be a good opportunity for the kids to know that we reach out in love to people who do not yet have control over sins such as cussing... Many of us even those with God's spirit have a sin that we struggle with.

 

It is one or two days out of the whole year... is he really going to affect you and your children's behavior (thus being a bad association) in such a short time?

 

I think that we would prepare our kids ahead of time by talking to them about how it isn't our place to judge others, but our standards are different from this behavior and why.

 

:iagree:I think this is the right thing to do, although it would be difficult for me to do. I would have to pray about it for a *long* time before being able to do it. You better get started girl!

[Julie in CA]

...but it is really judgmental, IMO of people to say that it is judgmental or "unChristian" not to want to be around someone like that.

I don't think anyone said that at all. In fact, I think the dialogue up to this point has been respectful & kind. :001_smile:

[Fleur de Lis]

I don't think anyone said that at all. In fact, I think the dialogue up to this point has been respectful & kind.

 

I am sorry if I jumped a little too far on that. Knee jerk reaction I guess to a past personal experience. Sorry.

 

FWIW, though, I do think this opinion is erroneous:

 

is it wrong to feel like it's wrong to socialize with someone who rightfully went to prison?

As a Christian' date=' unless you believe that this person is dangerous, then I would say YES, it is wrong. [/quote']

[FiveOaksAcademy]

It is perfectly possible to love someone as a fellow man and creature of God and to not want them around yourself or your children.

 

:iagree: I've found that I can do this quite often by prayer. I have spent a lot of time praying for people who I knew I was unable to spend time with. Praying for God's hand in their lives, blessings that only He can give, the blessedness of just knowing Him. Even though I still struggled with whether to be around them or not, I KNEW I was loving them by praying for them, and after intervening for them before God, my heart often will "feel" that love for them as well!! God has often given me things to pray in those situations when I don't know what to pray. Again, loving someone doesn't always mean you have to be in their presence.

[Fleur de Lis]

:iagree: I've found that I can do this quite often by prayer. I have spent a lot of time praying for people who I knew I was unable to spend time with. Praying for God's hand in their lives, blessings that only He can give, the blessedness of just knowing Him. Even though I still struggled with whether to be around them or not, I KNEW I was loving them by praying for them, and after intervening for them before God, my heart often will "feel" that love for them as well!! God has often given me things to pray in those situations when I don't know what to pray. Again, loving someone doesn't always mean you have to be in their presence.

:iagree: Yep, this is what I always try to do, too. I will especially try to pray for this person during the specific time when I would otherwise be with them, but also at other times. I know that it is important as Christians to try to show our love for people and hope that this will help them to want the better way, but I also try to remember that God has a better way of putting things than I do and He can touch their hearts with grace easier than I can, so praying to Him for this person is a really good alternative. I feel in these situations that God is calling me to recognize that I do not have to be THE ONE to convert their hearts by my good example, God is the only one who can do that and He will (perhaps through someone else that He has planned) if we pray to Him with sincere hearts.

[BigMamaBird]

Have him over, love on him as family, but have a BIG talk with the kids before hand about how Uncle's language and behaviors are unacceptable and the consequences he faces because of them.

[caedmyn]

Personally, I'd feel very uncomfortable about the whole thing, but I think I would choose to invite him for the sake of his mother and for the sake of keeping doors open between you and him--you never know when someone will start looking for God and I would want him to be able to turn to us if he started looking. DH on the other hand would probably say the opposite!

 

I'm a former LEO and I completely understand where your DH is coming from. OTOH, the town where I worked was small, and many of the LEOs were related to one or more "frequent flyers" to the criminal justice system. As far as I could tell no one looked down on them for the times they did spend with their jailbird relatives. If it'd been a frequent thing it probably would have been a different story, but an occasional family get-together wasn't looked down on. So perhaps his co-workers won't consider it that big of a deal if he goes to a family dinner with the person in question.

[Impish]

It's not her home.

 

 

 

Putting up with people who aren't *always* well-behaved because you are related and there are bonds there is an important lesson for children, imo. Your dh should think about whether the kids will be able to tolerate him when he's old and crotchety. ;)

This isn't old and crotchety, though. This is a convicted felon. Bit different, imo.

 

Personally, I'd choose having dinner w/my dh over anyone else. That your dh isn't going to be part of the holiday dinner b/c of this other person would be enough to have me not going either.

[Mrs Mungo]

I think some are sort of misreading this.

 

I think this is the situation, please correct me if I am wrong, OP.

 

There is a Christmas dinner (which is not on Christmas proper) at the home of the OP's *mother*. The OP's mother has *already* invited her sister and nephew (the leper/untouchable/felon/black sheep/whatever you want to call him).

 

Should the OP have Christmas dinner with her mom or not? Her dh is against it because he doesn't like the nephew. *That* is the question being asked.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Mrs Mungo

[Harriet Vane]

I lived for fourteen years in a bad neighborhood in the city, by my choice. We were there as urban missionaries, though neither dh nor I have ever been with a missions organization. We moved there with the intention of trying to address racial hurt (it was an African-American, high -crime neighborhood) and trying to address (at least a little) some of the problems of the inner city.

 

In the course of our life there, I exposed my children to MANY who had been to prison as well as many who really should be in prison but had not been caught. I also exposed my children to MANY who lived lifestyles totally incompatible with what we believe as Christians.

 

The key, in my opinion, is open communication with your children, and the protection of your presence.

 

Does the relative in question pose a danger to children? If he has been convicted of any form of pedophilia, then he does. Do not EVER expose your children to him, EVER.

 

Does the relative in question have a drug or alcohol problem that is currently untreated? If yes, then don't ever leave your children alone with him, EVER. I say this is one who has close family members with addictions issues.

 

If you do not fear a serious addictions issue or pedophilia, then the next concern is whether or not the relative poses some sort of spiritual or emotional danger. Chances are that the occasional family gathering will not pose a danger, but only you and your dh can answer that question, through prayer.

 

So, if you do not think there is a quantifiable danger, but simply "bad behavior," then I would probably not avoid the holiday gathering. Nor would I attempt to correct his bad language as that could just spark ugly arguments. He doesn't believe as you do and will not want to behave according to your standards.

 

What I would do, if I did not fear addictions or pedophilia:

 

--Talk to my kids ahead of time. "Uncle Bill has a hard time with the way he talks. He doesn't believe in God the way that we do. However, we do believe in what the Bible says, so we will not talk the way he talks. We will just be polite and treat him nicely because that is what Jesus would do."

 

--Keep a firm eye on my kids at all times. You or your dh should supervise the kids heavily, even if that means missing out on fun or talk with the grown-ups. In this way you not only protect your kids, you also coach ALL the kids towards better behavior and you show love and attention to the kids of the badly-behaved relative.

[Garga]

It is perfectly possible to love someone as a fellow man and creature of God and to not want them around yourself or your children.

 

I dunno about this. Love is an action. What's the point of staying at home and feeling love for your fellow man if you never get out there and demonstrate it? I'm saying this thoughtfully and not abrasively.

[Carol in Cal.]

Wise words as usual, Strider. I agree completely.

I would add, never leaving them alone with him means NOT EVEN IN THE NEXT ROOM. This is where you really, truly need to tomato stake at all costs. You don't have to be obvious about it, but you do have to be VERY stubborn. I have one relative like that, and it's not easy, but it's possible, to stay right there without giving offense. And if you do give offense, you do. You have to. It's not negotiable.

[FaithManor]

Thanksgiving dinner with a relative who is loud' date=' obnoxious, uses at least 10 cuss words per sentence NO MATTER WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT, has been in trouble most of his life and recently got out of prison, is raising his children to be just like him, is known by every law enforcement officer in the county - and your dh is one of them.

 

i am having a hard time with this and feeling very conflicted between saying we won't associate with him (if nothing else for the sake of our very young children) and feeling like, as Christians, it is not our place to judge and we should lovingly accept him into our home. plus, i am very close to his mother and want to spend time with her but feel wrong for NOT wanting to spend time with him.

 

any advice?[/quote']

 

 

I would gently take him aside, explain my concerns, and then tell him if he could adhere to x,y,z so that my children and extended family do not have their holiday hijacked with inappropriateness, he was welcome to come for the meal...but, with the caveat that if he can't watch his mouth and topic of conversation, dh will escort him to the door.

 

If you don't think he can manage it, then I'd let him know why he is not invited for the meal, but possibly offer to meet him for coffee somewhere the next day, or take him to a restaurant to eat on the weekend. If he gets blustery there, management can be the bad guy who asks him to pipe down or leave. :001_smile:

 

Faith

[FaithManor]

I think some are sort of misreading this.

 

I think this is the situation, please correct me if I am wrong, OP.

 

There is a Christmas dinner (which is not on Christmas proper) at the home of the OP's *mother*. The OP's mother has *already* invited her sister and nephew (the leper/untouchable/felon/black sheep/whatever you want to call him).

 

Should the OP have Christmas dinner with her mom or not? Her dh is against it because he doesn't like the nephew. *That* is the question being asked.

 

 

oops, I didn't get catch that the OP was not the host when I posted earlier.

 

Disregard my post,

Faith

[LMD]

That does sound very hard.

 

Firstly, acting Christ-like means not lying about DH working if he's not ;) I'd be soooooooooo tempted to say a half-truth like that, even though I believe it is wrong - and I have done it myself.

 

From what you've described, I'd be so torn. If my DH was adamant about none of us going, we'd not go. If my DH decided he wasn't going, but we still could, then I probably would at least go with the children for a little while. If questions came up then I'd be as lovingly honest as I could - I'd be rehearsing answers beforehand!

 

If it is a matter of safety then we would not go - in fact we have a similar family bun-fight going on about this christmas due to the presence (or not) of a certain un-repentant family member. My children are scared of said family member and there is a danger of them being drug affected or lashing out because we've taken the 'other' side. No way are we ruining our christmas to keep the peace, though other people see it differently.

 

I guess from what you have described I'd come down to: it would be better to go, and it would be better to have DH with you to help run interference.

[Mommy22alyns]

I wouldn't want my kids around this person.

[staceyobu]

Your cousin has family to spend Thanksgiving with. He won't be alone. I think you need to consider your husband and children first. Your DH is uncomfortable, you are worried about the kids. I'd stay home and not feel guilty.

Edited November 27, 2011 by staceyobu

[almondbutterandjelly]

Don't go. Visit your aunt another time. She will have a nice dinner with her guests without your family. Your husband's concern is legitimate and should take priority. Your husband and children are your first ministry. If you feel compelled to minister to your cousin at another time, you can. If you are asked why you are not attending, just say "We have other plans." No need to break any commandments :) in your explanation. It is true. You do have plans that involve not being there.

[Joanne]

I dunno about this. Love is an action. What's the point of staying at home and feeling love for your fellow man if you never get out there and demonstrate it? I'm saying this thoughtfully and not abrasively.

 

Love and being in relationship requires time, action, and commitment.

 

You CAN love someone, as in possess the feeling, but not be in relationship.

 

Boundaries are for self respect, and they do not mean you cease to love.

[jackson'smama]

OK, i cannot believe i got so many more responses! thanks to you all for your input. let me clarify a few things mentioned:

 

1) i am not scared of my cousin. i don't fear for anyone's safety around him. he isn't violent, doesn't drink, and doesn't use drugs. he is emotionally immature and lacks emotional intelligence. his crimes are like this: someone made him mad, he slashed their tires, he got caught but thinks it isn't his fault because the other person made him mad and thus started the whole problem, blahblahblah. i get sick of hearing stories like this.

 

2) i have no problem asking him to watch his language. he's not gonna get mad or make a scene about it. in fact, he probably won't even hear it because he listens to very little of what you say b/c he's just sitting there thinking of his next sentence. but i have no problem jumping on him for it. my mom and i are in the same boat here so even though it's technically "not at my house", it's really no different.

 

3)i don't even know what day this dinner is going to be but chances are, dh wouldn't be working and regardless, he gets off at 5 (in time for dinner!), but i am not advocating lying about him going to work. may sound "unChristlike", but if we used this excuse, dh would probably welcome an opportunity to go the office and catch up on something anyway, so while it wouldn't be scheduled, he'd go - not just sit at home alone.

 

4) i think dh will go anyway b/c he feels it's important as family to do so. it's just uncomfortable for him. and it's not because of worrying about his job or feeling like someone is going to judge him about it from a work standpoint. it's more of him judging himself from a personal and professional standpoint.

 

5) i don't even think the kids will pay attention to my cousin, so i don't know that there's even really anything i need to say to prepare them. by the OP of "loud and obnoxious", it's more of just in personal conversation. he'll actually be quite charming and sweet to the kids. maybe innappropriate in terms of the "guy teasing" stuff with small kids or telling my baby girl (who can't even talk) to "slow down, nobody's gonna take your food away" while she's gulping down her mashed potatoes. it's just smart-alecky kind of talk that goes over their heads but it's a general tone of poking fun that i don't really like being around - especially when it comes from someone who isn't close to you. i mean, when i squeeze her and say i love her chubby legs, i think it feels different than someone who is almost a stranger to say "hey fatty!" - even if it's said lovingly. i'm probably just being picky, but it's just a feeling i have.

 

6) overall, the issue is not whether or not to go. we ARE going. and most likely dh will go too. it's more of a "should we feel bad for the way we feel about hanging around him or is it natural? do we need to change - are we being too judgemental? obviously we are all different, but i think, "i wouldn't be friends with him. if he weren't related, we wouldn't be hanging out". and i don't mean that to sound snooty - it's just that i don't run with the criminal crowd. it's not a "looking down on", but there's definitely an element of "i can't identify with this". and this is where the religion comes in. i start to feel like i am not being "Christlike" if i dont' really want to be around him. but don't we naturally gravitate toward people who are similar to us? i'm starting to ramble and probably not make much sense. there's too much chatter going on around me to stay focused, but hopefully you understand!

[Harriet Vane]

OK' date=' i cannot believe i got so many more responses! thanks to you all for your input. let me clarify a few things mentioned:

 

1) i am not scared of my cousin. i don't fear for anyone's safety around him. he isn't violent, doesn't drink, and doesn't use drugs. he is emotionally immature and lacks emotional intelligence. his crimes are like this: someone made him mad, he slashed their tires, he got caught but thinks it isn't his fault because the other person [i']made him mad[/i] and thus started the whole problem, blahblahblah. i get sick of hearing stories like this.

 

2) i have no problem asking him to watch his language. he's not gonna get mad or make a scene about it. in fact, he probably won't even hear it because he listens to very little of what you say b/c he's just sitting there thinking of his next sentence. but i have no problem jumping on him for it. my mom and i are in the same boat here so even though it's technically "not at my house", it's really no different.

 

3)i don't even know what day this dinner is going to be but chances are, dh wouldn't be working and regardless, he gets off at 5 (in time for dinner!), but i am not advocating lying about him going to work. may sound "unChristlike", but if we used this excuse, dh would probably welcome an opportunity to go the office and catch up on something anyway, so while it wouldn't be scheduled, he'd go - not just sit at home alone.

 

4) i think dh will go anyway b/c he feels it's important as family to do so. it's just uncomfortable for him. and it's not because of worrying about his job or feeling like someone is going to judge him about it from a work standpoint. it's more of him judging himself from a personal and professional standpoint.

 

5) i don't even think the kids will pay attention to my cousin, so i don't know that there's even really anything i need to say to prepare them. by the OP of "loud and obnoxious", it's more of just in personal conversation. he'll actually be quite charming and sweet to the kids. maybe innappropriate in terms of the "guy teasing" stuff with small kids or telling my baby girl (who can't even talk) to "slow down, nobody's gonna take your food away" while she's gulping down her mashed potatoes. it's just smart-alecky kind of talk that goes over their heads but it's a general tone of poking fun that i don't really like being around - especially when it comes from someone who isn't close to you. i mean, when i squeeze her and say i love her chubby legs, i think it feels different than someone who is almost a stranger to say "hey fatty!" - even if it's said lovingly. i'm probably just being picky, but it's just a feeling i have.

 

6) overall, the issue is not whether or not to go. we ARE going. and most likely dh will go too. it's more of a "should we feel bad for the way we feel about hanging around him or is it natural? do we need to change - are we being too judgemental? obviously we are all different, but i think, "i wouldn't be friends with him. if he weren't related, we wouldn't be hanging out". and i don't mean that to sound snooty - it's just that i don't run with the criminal crowd. it's not a "looking down on", but there's definitely an element of "i can't identify with this". and this is where the religion comes in. i start to feel like i am not being "Christlike" if i dont' really want to be around him. but don't we naturally gravitate toward people who are similar to us? i'm starting to ramble and probably not make much sense. there's too much chatter going on around me to stay focused, but hopefully you understand!

 

That clarifies things greatly. I respect the thought you are putting into this.

 

FWIW, I have a relative like yours. He's not a criminal; he's just REALLY obnoxious. I am absolutely sure he has some sort of undiagnosed issue. (Possible ADHD with OCD??? I'm not a professional, but my bil is and he concurs. Heck, everyone who has met said relative concurs. Even his mother.) He is loud and very attention-seeking and often says things that are totally inappropriate. He violates boundaries all.the.time. Yet in many ways he's really not a bad guy.

 

We put up with him most times, primarily because his children really need family. It's hard though, as he often dominates any gathering he is in.

 

I can see how awkward this is for both you and your dh. Wish it were simpler. :grouphug:

[J-rap]

I don't think you need to feel badly about feeling that way. Also, I think it's totally different when it's just you vs. whether it's you and your young children.

Someone here posted that Jesus was universally kind to sinners, and that's mostly true -- but he didn't drag young children into it either.

When our children were young, my first job was to protect my kids. I'm not saying your relative is unsafe, you're already said he isn't. I mean just keeping them in a positive, encouraging atmosphere -- why subject them to negatives at a young age if I don't have to, when I am working at building up a strong, respectful, peaceful core within them?

When it's just my husband and myself, or even our family once our kids were older and better equipped/understanding, then we have a different attitude. Then it's more about reaching out to others, even others who cuss a lot and have lived unruly lives.

[J-rap]

And by the way, I wasn't implying that you should change your plans, only saying that I think your feelings were understandable given the circumstances. :)

[Jana]

There is no reason, as a Christian, that you should subject yourself and your children to that kind of behavior.

 

Sorry, but I think being a Christian is the very reason to "subject" yourself to "that kind of behavior."

 

Who exactly do you think Jesus ate his meals with? The Pharisees who were obsessed with purity laws?

 

And for what it's worth--there's swearing in the Bible. And yes, it's in the New Testament: Philippians 3:8. He doesn't consider all things rubbish--I'll let you decide what he considers all things.

 

ETA: This isn't advice to the OP, but a comment directed at this sentiment specifically.

Edited November 22, 2011 by Jana

[jackson'smama]

it is so interesting to see everyones interpretation of this situation. i really appreciate all the feedback!

[MindyD]

It's not always easy, but I would try to look at this as an opportunity. This isn't a person you'd necessarily choose to have in your life, but God has put him there. He's not a Christian so he's not going to act like one. I'd explain to the kids that cousin so-in-so is going to say things you shouldn't repeat, just don't pay attention to him, then you can have a big teachable moment after everything's done. It sounds like he needs someone to show him real love. Your kids won't be in any danger, so I'd go for it happily!

Edited November 22, 2011 by MindyD

[nrg]

My brothers and I still laugh about the 94 (!) swear words our uncle uttered during one Thanksgiving dinner. We were well-prepared for the visit, and old enough to handle it. We learned about being kind and being good examples. We learned how we did not want to be when we grew up. We learned how kind our parents were to deal with a difficult situation. We also knew that we were SAFE at that dinner, but we would never be alone with this man. We had lots of fun counting the obscenities, too.

 

I vote for including him.