WWYD? Legal Document changed after it is signed w/o signer's approval

[joannqn]

Here is Washington, one of the requirements of homeschool is to file a Declaration of Intent to homeschool each year. Here's the language of the law with some emphasis from me:

 

 

(a) File annually a signed declaration of intent that he or she is planning to cause his or her child to receive home-based instruction. The statement shall include the name and age of the child, shall specify whether a certificated person will be supervising the instruction, and shall be written in a format prescribed by the superintendent of public instruction. Each parent shall file the statement by September 15th of the school year or within two weeks of the beginning of any public school quarter, trimester, or semester with the superintendent of the public school district within which the parent resides or the district that accepts the transfer, and the student shall be deemed a transfer student of the nonresident district. Parents may apply for transfer under RCW 28A.225.220;

Got it?

 

Ok, I don't believe there is a single school district whose form follows the law. Most include birthday, grade level, child's address, how you qualify to homeschool, (you must meet one of four requirements to be qualified but aren't required to prove that you are qualified) etc. Even the form provided by the Superintendent of Public Instruction requires information not required by law.

 

So, a friend went in a couple of days ago to file her DOI and left the grade level blank because it isn't required by law. The woman working at the district office filled in the grade on her form even though she had already signed the form. In support, a mutual friend went in today with her form but had drawn a line through grade level section to prevent it from being filled in. The woman working at the district office wrote the grade level in over the line she had drawn. Our friend protested and the lady said she change whatever she wants on it. Besides changing a legal document after it was signed without the approval of the signer, she filled it in with the incorrect grade level. On paper, the child has now skipped a grade based on age cut offs!

 

I know the first mom is not a member of HSLDA, and I believe the second isn't either.

 

WWYD?

Edited September 16, 2011 by joannqn

[Photo Ninja]

I think it would be wise to keep a copy of the completed, signed document as it is before turning it in. That way if there is any issue in the future, that copy is proof that someone changed the document after it was signed.

 

Lack of a signature or initials next to the change should indicate that the person signing the document did not approve the change or addition.

[joannqn]

That's a great idea. The district gives us a copy of the document after it has been stamped as received for our records. Of course, by this time, she had already altered the document. Any copy we make before it is turned in won't have the stamp proving it was submitted.

[Mrs Mungo]

Do you have to fill out the form? Or can you type up the info in a letter? Because what I have done before is sent a letter instead of filling out their form.

[joannqn]

Do you have to fill out the form? Or can you type up the info in a letter? Because what I have done before is sent a letter instead of filling out their form.

 

The law states it shall be in the prescribed format prescribed by the superintendent of public instruction. The problem with this is that even the form created by OSPI requires information not required by law. They ask for birthdate, grade, and address.

 

A couple of different state-wide homeschool organizations have provided any alternative form. I don't know if the district is required to accept the alternative forms.

Edited September 16, 2011 by joannqn

[Mrs Mungo]

The law states it shall be in the prescribed format prescribed by the superintendent of public instruction. The problem with this is that even the form created by OSPI requires information not required by law. They ask for birthdate, grade, and address.

 

Fill in: "not applicable, according to law," even if you have to write it crooked, above or to the side with arrows, mess up the form.

[luvnlattes]

I don't have any suggestions on what to do with the altered form but I use the form provided at this link:

 

http://www.washhomeschool.org/homeschooling/declaration.html

 

My school district would send me a form that asked for additional information I was not required to provide. Instead of completing that form, I complete the one on the WHO website at the link above. As you can see it indicates the student's age, not grade. I was never contacted and advised that I needed to return the form that they had originally sent me. However, I mail mine in and keep a copy for my records. I don't take it in personally.

[Sahamamama]

You could completely black out the area for grade level with a thick, black Sharpie, or write a note somewhere on the form -- "Grade level not listed by parent." Make a copy of this form for your records, in case the school people cross out your note. :glare:

 

If you are a member of a legal organization, perhaps you could make a call on your own behalf and ask this question.

 

Please keep us posted about how this resolves.

[brehon]

I don't know if this would work or not and I don't even know if it's a good idea. How's that for a disclaimer.

 

I actually have 2 thoughts: (1) stand there and make whomever stamp the form as received and get a copy. if the secretary writes or otherwise alters the form prior to stamping, ask for it back saying the information is now incorrect and you'd just *hate* to be out of compliance. (2) Get the blasted thing notorized prior to turning it in. If Ms. Secretary then alters a notorized form w/o obtaining the correct initials approving the change, go to whomever handles issues for homeschoolers in your city/state. I'd still either have 2 notorized copies or just make a copy of the original notorized form for your records.

 

I realized the law doesn't specify that one must have the form notorized; but, it seems to me that you might want some additional security. Just thoughts from someone who lives in a completely non-reporting state.

[joannqn]

I'm not sure how it will end up. I advised the mom with the child who was grade skipped by the woman to talk to the supervisor expressing concerns about the form being altered without her approval after she signed it and that the added information was incorrect. To explain that she concerned about being held liable for this incorrect information and to ask a proper form, as she provided it, be recorded in its place.

 

I explained concerns I would have with the improper grade level being officially recorded:

 

1) She may not be able to file the proper grade level next year.

2) They may not accept the proper grade level should she ever enroll him in public school.

3) She may not be able to file the senior year form because they have him registered as graduated.

4) Should an investigation ever occur and records are necessary (we're required to keep records and testing results), she may be held to the standards of the higher grade level.

[gaillardia]

I don't know if this would work or not and I don't even know if it's a good idea. How's that for a disclaimer.

 

I actually have 2 thoughts: (1) stand there and make whomever stamp the form as received and get a copy. if the secretary writes or otherwise alters the form prior to stamping, ask for it back saying the information is now incorrect and you'd just *hate* to be out of compliance. (2) Get the blasted thing notorized prior to turning it in. If Ms. Secretary then alters a notorized form w/o obtaining the correct initials approving the change, go to whomever handles issues for homeschoolers in your city/state. I'd still either have 2 notorized copies or just make a copy of the original notorized form for your records.

 

I realized the law doesn't specify that one must have the form notorized; but, it seems to me that you might want some additional security. Just thoughts from someone who lives in a completely non-reporting state.

I bolded in red what she wrote that I would do, but the rest is good advice as well.

When we were hsing in Pennsylvania we had to have our original notorized. Any time you have to hand papers in to the school district for homeschooling, make sure you have your own copy, but notorizing is a really, really good idea.

[gardenmom5]

Here is Washington, one of the requirements of homeschool is to file a Declaration of Intent to homeschool each year.

So, a friend went in a couple of days ago to file her DOI and left the grade level blank because it isn't required by law. The woman working at the district office filled in the grade on her form even though she had already signed the form. In support, a mutual friend went in today with her form but had drawn a line through grade level section to prevent it from being filled in. The woman working at the district office wrote the grade level in over the line she had drawn. Our friend protested and the lady said she change whatever she wants on it. Besides changing a legal document after it was signed without the approval of the signer, she filled it in with the incorrect grade level. On paper, the child has now skipped a grade based on age cut offs!

 

I know the first mom is not a member of HSLDA, and I believe the second isn't either.

 

WWYD?

 

I always put a "N/A" on the lines I don't fill in - so no one can go back and write something in. (or at least makes it more difficult to pass off.)

 

1) contact her boss and let the boss know what she is doing, and that it is illegal and can bring down the wrath of olympia upon them. Include a copy of the law/rcw. Not only the homeschooling law, but her fraud because she's filling in information you didn't, but are legally responsible for because you signed the document. (if you can get other homeschoolers from your district whom she has done this to, contact as a group. the more the merrier, and the louder the chorus to get attention.)

2) contact Olympia and let them know this woman is a) out of compliance and b) filling in extra information on your homeschool form. I do know people who've had to do that when the district was out of compliance with their intent form. the district was forced to back down.

3) send a letter to your state legislator. again, the more the merrier.

[gardenmom5]

I don't know if the district is required to accept the alternative forms.

 

They have to accept the state form. I use the one from the WHO website, and never had trouble (even though my district form is VERY detailed and aimed at intimidating parents.). I'd take it to the homeschool center (not the district office when it is "supposed" to be sent, but the actual homeschool center for district supported homeschoolers), get it stamped and dated and get my copy. No problems.

[Cera]

I would fill it out in a distinctive pen so that the information that was added after was obvious (red pen or sharpie, something that would stand out).

 

It sounds like no matter what is done the woman is going to alter the form so I would at least want her alterations to be obvious.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I always put a "N/A" on the lines I don't fill in - so no one can go back and write something in. (or at least makes it more difficult to pass off.)

 

1) contact her boss and let the boss know what she is doing, and that it is illegal and can bring down the wrath of olympia upon them. Include a copy of the law/rcw. Not only the homeschooling law, but her fraud because she's filling in information you didn't, but are legally responsible for because you signed the document. (if you can get other homeschoolers from your district whom she has done this to, contact as a group. the more the merrier, and the louder the chorus to get attention.)

2) contact Olympia and let them know this woman is a) out of compliance and b) filling in extra information on your homeschool form. I do know people who've had to do that when the district was out of compliance with their intent form. the district was forced to back down.

3) send a letter to your state legislator. again, the more the merrier.

 

I agree with the idea that if a block asks for something that is not required, the block should be filled in such that the person accepting the paper cannot just add things.

 

As you pointed out, allowing someone to add info to the form at whim can potentially make the document false, with large potential consequences.

 

How big of a deal do you want to make it? Is it worth getting the word out to lots of homeschoolers in that area, such that they go to the office and request a copy of their paperwork to see if anything was added to it? Or would that be stirring up a hornets' nest?

 

Does the state approve homeschool requests or do they just accept notifications of intent?

 

Perhaps the second family (the ones that had the incorrect grade level filled in) need to submit a "corrected copy", stating that information was filled in after signature that was incorrect and that the submission of a clean and correct copy voids the altered document. (I made those phrases up. It is probably worth running it past a lawyer.)

 

As Mrs. Mungo suggested, I submit a letter in my state (VA) not a form. You can write a letter such that it is in the same format as the state form, without being on the same form. (ie, in the same order, similar columns)

[atozmom]

Anytime I have ever hand delivered any of our forms to our local office, I would make my own copy before leaving the house. I would have them stamp the form I was turning in and the copy that I made. That way if any changes were ever made to the form, I could prove that it wasn't that way when I turned it in and they could not argue since their stamp was on it. Now I just mail in our evaluations at the end of the year. However, I do mail them with signature confirmation. That way if they claim they never received it, I can show them the signature confirmation card as proof that someone signed for it upon delivery.

[plansrme]

I realized the law doesn't specify that one must have the form notorized; but, it seems to me that you might want some additional security. Just thoughts from someone who lives in a completely non-reporting state.

 

I just want to clear up a common misconception about notarized documents. A notary's only purpose is to prove that the person whose name is on the document is the person who signed it, which is not at issue in this case. The notary provides no security or guarantee whatsoever as to the content of the document. A notary's stamp and signature are evidence that she has viewed identification from the person who signed the document, and the person so identified signed the document in the notary's presence. A notary often has no idea what is in a document being signed in her presence, and it is not uncommon for the signer to cover the text of the document so the notary can't see what is in it.

 

Terri

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I just want to clear up a common misconception about notarized documents. A notary's only purpose is to prove that the person whose name is on the document is the person who signed it, which is not at issue in this case. The notary provides no security or guarantee whatsoever as to the content of the document. A notary's stamp and signature are evidence that she has viewed identification from the person who signed the document, and the person so identified signed the document in the notary's presence. A notary often has no idea what is in a document being signed in her presence, and it is not uncommon for the signer to cover the text of the document so the notary can't see what is in it.

 

Terri

 

Good point. I think what people were thinking is that the date on the notarization would show that it wasn't created after the fact. On the other hand, there is nothing there that proves that it was the same as what was submitted.

 

What about putting a received stampt or block onto whatever document you are submitting and asking the recipient to sign both the copy they retain and the copy the homeschooler keeps for their at home records?

 

Probably the best thing going forward is to fill the non-required blocks with N/A or a statement that they are not required.

 

I think the family with the incorrect grade listing needs to take action to get a correction acknowledged.

[Harriet Vane]

I would express my objections in writing, strongly. Repeatedly.

[Jean in Newcastle]

They have to accept the state form. I use the one from the WHO website, and never had trouble (even though my district form is VERY detailed and aimed at intimidating parents.). I'd take it to the homeschool center (not the district office when it is "supposed" to be sent, but the actual homeschool center for district supported homeschoolers), get it stamped and dated and get my copy. No problems.

 

:iagree:

 

Contact WHO and let them know about this. They will not only advise you, but they have contacted superintendents before to protest problems.

[Sun]

I just use the WHO form. I specifically use it because it does not ask for any extra information. My district (whose form asks for birthday and grade) has always accepted it without modification. I mail it in, but the copy they send back to me hasn't had any changes made.

[SweetMissMagnolia]

I always make a copy of our "card" each year before I return it to the office......:glare:

[Belacqua]

 

Contact WHO and let them know about this. They will not only advise you, but they have contacted superintendents before to protest problems.

 

I agree. They may have gotten to my district, because the forms were seriously noncompliant until a few years ago, and now they're perfect. Of course, it helps that the person I hand them to has always been lovely, even when I've left things blank and crossed other things out. I really don't know how I'd handle the...lady...who changes signed documents.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I agree. They may have gotten to my district, because the forms were seriously noncompliant until a few years ago, and now they're perfect. Of course, it helps that the person I hand them to has always been lovely, even when I've left things blank and crossed other things out. I really don't know how I'd handle the...lady...who changes signed documents.

 

My district's form has a place to sign that you are being supervised by a certified teacher - which is one option, but of course, not the only one. I leave it blank but I always wonder about newbies that might be taken in and might think that is a requirement. I always get the same slightly snarky form letter each year that says that "We assume that you are complying with the law, since you have chosen to not be supervised by a certified teacher." I did let WHO know, but so far the forms and the snarky form letter have not changed.

[TraciWA]

Hey there! I would never use the form provided by the school district you are in. They almost always require more information than you are legally required to provide. I always go to our state liaison's web site and print the one from them.

You can find it at www.chnow.org they even have a report on the different forms around our state. Hope that helps!

[kalanamak]

 

A couple of different state-wide homeschool organizations have provided any alternative form. I don't know if the district is required to accept the alternative forms.

 

 

I use the WHO form, and even my extraordinarily laid back and supportive district asks for grade. I got the feeling the secretary has been told to, because she noted it on the form as I left, based on child's age. (I had replied "it depends on the subject.") I don't give two hooeys what they write. It was clearly not in my bright blue, flourishing fountain pen cursive. :)

[joannqn]

My district's form has a place to sign that you are being supervised by a certified teacher - which is one option, but of course, not the only one. I leave it blank but I always wonder about newbies that might be taken in and might think that is a requirement. I always get the same slightly snarky form letter each year that says that "We assume that you are complying with the law, since you have chosen to not be supervised by a certified teacher." I did let WHO know, but so far the forms and the snarky form letter have not changed.

 

Oooh, it does sound like they are trying to pull something. The law requires you to say whether you are being supervised by a certified teacher but does not require you to say how you qualify, if using another method.

 

I've met some newbies who don't know the law going in or who aren't totally confident who might be swayed by that.

[gardenmom5]

Does the state approve homeschool requests or do they just accept notifications of intent?

)

 

 

It's at the district level, not the state though the state has the laws on what must be included with the declaration. While generally, it's probably not a big deal - there have been cases in WA where one gung-ho person with an attitude and too much authority has precipitated investigations that destroyed multiple people's lives and only later does it come out, with proof, that it was a witch hunt by someone with an ax to grind. (the specific one I'm thinking of didn't involve homeschooling, but innocent people went to jail and lost their parental rights.)

 

I haven't had any problems with my school district - despite their intent form being designed to intimidate parents - I would be at that secretary's bosses door with copies of the forms she altered and the laws - and if no satisfaction, I'd be sending certified letters to my state rep and the state office of public instruction, soley for the sake of protecting myself from future possible harassement.