Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

[Lovedtodeath]

Excellent!

[Spy Car]

I have always thought that the Muslim faith is an offshoot of Ishmael...God said he would make a great nation from him, Jews and thus Christianity coe from Isaac..not sure from the Muslim history if they accept this?

 

You are mixing up a number of ideas. Muslims believe they practice the religion of Abraham, and that Judiasm is an outgrowth of the primordial Islam practiced by Abraham.

 

Muslims do not believe their religion came from Ishmael, they believe it came from God and was the religion of Abraham.

 

As a separate issue, the Arab people (as distinct from Muslims) believe their tribe (nation) is decendent from Ishmael. So they feel and ethnic-tribal relationship to Ishmael, but they do not practice the "religion of Ishmael."

 

Bill

Edited September 9, 2011 by Spy Car

[Spy Car]

I dunno Bill, but for some reason I think you might be trying to make a point here. Then again, maybe I'm wrong. ;)

 

People are just addressing Christianity and Islam because that's what the OP asked about. If you want to push it further, I guess that's your prerogative.

 

I am trying to make a point. One can accept (as you do and I do) that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the God of Abraham. Granted there are differences in how they worship (but the same is true amoung intra-religious movements.)

 

Or one can differentiate between those who believe in the Christian Triune God and those who do not. In this latter case both Jews and Muslims would not qualify as worshipping the same God as Christians.

 

Some posters have put forward exclusions that elimate Muslims (because they don't believe Jesus is God) while not excluding Jews on exactly the same grounds. I don't see the logic behind the assertions, and when I have asked for clarifications the questions have repeatedly been dodged.

 

Bill

[Marylou]

where does that leave Jesus, who lived and practiced as a Jew? Did he ever actually try to explain to all his Jewish followers that they were woefully uninformed about the true (triune) nature of God? My distant Sunday School education is failing me here.

 

Yes. This is from one of the most famous passages in the NT (John 3):

 

“You are Israel’s teacher,†said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.â€

 

Notice the "our"

[Lovedtodeath]

I am trying to make a point. One can accept (as you do and I do) that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the God of Abraham. Granted there are differences in how they worship (but the same is true amoung intra-religious movements.)

 

Or one can differentiate between those who believe in the Christian Triune God and those who do not. In this latter case both Jews and Muslims would not qualify as worshipping the same God as Christians.

 

Some posters have put forward exclusions that elimate Muslims (because they don't believe Jesus is God) while not excluding Jews on exactly the same grounds. I don't see the logic behind the assertions, and when I have asked for clarifications the questions have repeatedly been dodged.

 

Bill

Good point. I think that is due to confusion and disagreement among Christians regarding the role of Israel in the NT concerning God's kingdom.

[Lovedtodeath]

Yes. This is from one of the most famous passages in the NT (John 3):

 

“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

 

Notice the "our"

Thanks for sharing that! I am making a note of it. There is also this: “You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life." --John 5 starting at verse 39 Edited September 9, 2011 by Lovedtodeath

[Denise in Florida]

You are mixing up a number of ideas. Muslims believe they practice the religion of Abraham, and that Judiasm is an outgrowth of the primordial Islam practiced by Abraham.

 

Muslims do not believe their religion came from Ishmael, they believe it came from God and was the religion of Abraham.

 

As a separate issue, the Arab people (as distinct from Muslims) believe their tribe (nation) is decendent from Ishmael. So they feel and ethnic-tribal relationship to Ishmael, but they do not practice the "religion of Ishmael."

 

Bill

 

Thank you for this explanation. I did not know this. I am finding this thread very informative.

[PeacefulChaos]

1. I know very little about Islam. Just sayin. :D

2. I don't THINK that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

But...I wouldn't bet on it, either. It's one of those things that I don't feel the need to know, kwim?

oh, and..

3. Christians and Jews DO worship the same God.

[MyFourSons]

Good point. I think that is due to confusion and disagreement among Christians regarding the role of Israel in the NT concerning God's kingdom.

 

I think that this is a question of semantics. Do you worship the same God when even though you disagree about the nature of said deity? When speaking about Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, Christians are the only ones who worship the Trinity. Obviously the Trinity includes God the Father, who is the same figure found in the other two religions, but it can not exclude the Son or the Holy Spirit, which the other two most certainly do not worship.

 

For most Christians, even though Jews and Christians disagree about the nature of God, Christians still believe that they are worshiping the same God, but that Judaism has not accepted the full nature of said deity. In other words, the Jews are worshiping the same God even if they don't understand the true nature of the Trinity. They worship the same God even if they don't understand Him.

 

I think most Jews would disagree with this, since they would see worshiping Jesus as part of the Trinity to be heretical, and so it is impossible in their eyes to worship God as Jesus and be worshiping the true God.

 

The same holds true for Islam, whether Christians believe that they are worshiping the same God with a different understanding of that God or not, the concept of the Trinity would also be considered taboo in Islam, and so it would be logical for Muslims to conclude that Christians are not worshiping the same God as they are.

 

In other words, are American kids who play soccer really playing football, even if they use different rules and if they themselves call it soccer? Or is the very fact that they have used a different name and changed the rules proof that they really are playing soccer, and can never play football? Or, are soccer and football that same thing, regardless of the different definitions and understandings?

 

For most Christians (I'm not talking about evangelicals, they make up a minority within the worldwide Christian community), God is God and it is possible for an individual to truly worship Him without truly understanding Him, because fully understanding Him is literally impossible. So, some people who have never been taught about Jesus are still able to know God. This is why the Catholic church teaches that Orthodox Christianity teaches the "fullness of the truth," but other religions and individuals can still teach truth.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

For most Christians (I'm not talking about evangelicals, they make up a minority within the worldwide Christian community), God is God and it is possible for an individual to truly worship Him without truly understanding Him, because fully understanding Him is literally impossible. So, some people who have never been taught about Jesus are still able to know God. This is why the Catholic church teaches that Orthodox Christianity teaches the "fullness of the truth," but other religions and individuals can still teach truth.

Yes, there is very little that can actually be thought of in terms of black and white. I appreciate your thoughts. One thing I automatically think of is Jesus saying "You worship what you do not know" and "Those worshipping Him must worship in spirit and truth." (John 4)

[Marylou]

What does God care what we call Him?

 

http://www.albertmohler.com/2007/08/22/what-does-god-care-what-we-call-him/

[MyFourSons]

Good point. I think that is due to confusion and disagreement among Christians regarding the role of Israel in the NT concerning God's kingdom.

 

I think that this is a question of semantics. Do you worship the same God when even though you disagree about the nature of said deity? When speaking about Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, Christians are the only ones who worship the Trinity. Obviously the Trinity includes God the Father, who is the same figure found in the other two religions, but it can not exclude the Son or the Holy Spirit, which the other two most certainly do not worship.

 

For most Christians, even though Jews and Christians disagree about the nature of God, Christians still believe that they are worshiping the same God, but that Judaism has not accepted the full nature of said deity. In other words, the Jews are worshiping the same God even if they don't understand the true nature of the Trinity. They worship the same God even if they don't understand Him.

 

I think most Jews would disagree with this, since they would see worshiping Jesus as part of the Trinity to be heretical, and so it is impossible in their eyes to worship God as Jesus and be worshiping the true God.

 

The same holds true for Islam, whether Christians believe that they are worshiping the same God with a different understanding of that God or not, the concept of the Trinity would also be considered taboo in Islam, and so it would be logical for Muslims to conclude that Christians are not worshiping the same God as they are.

 

In other words, are American kids who play soccer really playing football, even if they use different rules and if they themselves call it soccer? Or is the very fact that they have used a different name and changed the rules proof that they really are playing soccer, and can never play football? Or, are soccer and football that same thing, regardless of the different definitions and understandings?

 

For most Christians (I'm not talking about evangelicals, they make up a minority within the worldwide Christian community), God is God and it is possible for an individual to truly worship Him without truly understanding Him, because fully understanding Him is literally impossible. So, some people who have never been taught about Jesus are still able to know God. This is why the Catholic church teaches that Orthodox Christianity teaches the "fullness of the truth," but other religions and individuals can still teach truth.

[staceyobu]

So, if Christians and Muslims and Jews ARE worshiping the same God, could I say the following:

 

Christians believe Jesus is the God of Abraham. So, Muslims and Jews are also worshiping Jesus as the one true God? I would think most Jews and Muslims would not want to be on this boat...

[AngelBee]

I have always thought that the Muslim faith is an offshoot of Ishmael...God said he would make a great nation from him, Jews and thus Christianity coe from Isaac..not sure from the Muslim history if they accept this?

 

This is a part of the Bible I have never heard discussed and have often wondered about.

 

Darn WTM history cycle! :tongue_smilie: :lol:

[Kate in Arabia]

I've been spending a lot of time with the Qur'an recently (Ramadan), it is filled with references to Christians and Jews and discussing their beliefs and/or practices and how they align or don't align with Islamic teachings. Clearly in the Qur'an, Jews, Christians and Muslims all engage with the same God.

 

I think the vast majority of Muslims would state that we all worship the same God, but have different understandings of the Nature of God. I know there are Christian folks who believe that Muslims worship a moon god or a false god or what have you; I have not seen a parallel among Muslims, they may believe that Christians are wrong in some of their beliefs but would not say that they are worshipping a different god (as in a completely different entity, kwim?).

 

Regarding Bill's comments, I find that I align very very closely with Jewish beliefs (on those belief-o-matic tests I always get 100% Muslim and 98% Jewish).

 

hth

[AngelBee]

Thank you all so much for this discussion! I am learning so very much!!!

 

I am excited and proud to be a part of such a diverse community that can peacefully discuss such a topic.

 

It renews my faith in humanity.

 

Thank you again!!! :grouphug:

[milovany]

This is why the Catholic church teaches that Orthodox Christianity teaches the "fullness of the truth," but other religions and individuals can still teach truth.

 

Well, wouldn't this be nice? :D

 

LOL, just kidding my Catholic friends!! :lol:

[Aquinas Academy]

Well, wouldn't this be nice? :D

 

LOL, just kidding my Catholic friends!! :lol:

:lol:

[Rosie_0801]

So, if Christians and Muslims and Jews ARE worshiping the same God, could I say the following:

 

Christians believe Jesus is the God of Abraham. So, Muslims and Jews are also worshiping Jesus as the one true God? I would think most Jews and Muslims would not want to be on this boat...

 

You could say that. And they could say "No offense, but you are mistaken about Jesus being the One True God." And you might say "Uh, no, you are mistaken, he really is." And they might say "Look, we know you Christians go in for trinities, but we have excellent, documented, theological reasons for not being persuaded that way ourselves." And after a bit of back and forth, eventually someone would have to say "I think we have adequately displayed how it came to be that the One True God got to be the boss of three different religions." Then some wag would say "Did you ever hear about the Ba'hai?"

 

Then before you know it, the conversation is 30 pages long. :p

 

Rosie

[Melissa in Australia]

Individuals may not have, but it is and has been the official teaching of the church as a whole. The Nicene Creed (325 AD) was written to put into concise form what the church believed and the Trinity is part of this.

And there are many Christians that believe the Nicene Creed was incorrect. The trinity belief was not a Christan belief before the Creed.

 

I am a Christan I don't believe in the trinity. I believe Muslims, Jew and Christians are all trying to worship the same God.

[Negin]

I never understand this question :confused:.

There is only one God, just goes by a different name. Call God what you will, but it's still God.

I'm not a Muslim or Christian.

[Renee in NC]

It's hard to know how to get answers to these kinds of questions.

 

My son asked me, a couple of years ago, why some Muslim women wear burqas. I didn't know the real answer, and I didn't know how to find the real answer. I don't have any close Muslim friends, and I didn't feel comfortable asking any of the Muslim women I know (at the time I had a few Muslims students and my OB is Muslim), because I wasn't sure if it was appropriate and I didn't want them to feel like they had to be the spokespeople for Islam. But I didn't want to just go online because I figured that I'd probably be getting a lot of biased information, and I wanted to know the Muslim perspective on it, not what non-Muslim people thought the practice was about.

 

I do think it's a shame that it's so hard to ask these questions without worrying about people wondering about your intentions or feeling uncomfortable.

 

I would ask that question here because I know that there are several Muslim women on the board who would be glad to answer polite questions.:D

[FiveOaksAcademy]

nm

Edited September 10, 2011 by FiveOaksAcademy

[Osmosis Mom]

I would ask that question here because I know that there are several Muslim women on the board who would be glad to answer polite questions.:D

 

Well, there is some difference of opinion re. covering your face (or almost all of your face up till your eyes). The covering of your face is called wearing niqaab as opposed to wearing the headcover which is called hijaab. I believe burqa is more a term to describe that particular type of over-wear worn in fx. Afghanistan (and made infamous by the Taliban), but is not a religious term per se.

 

It says in the Quran that Believing women should cover themselves except for their hands and face and many believe it is just one more step for females to show obedience to GOD (not man) and an opportunity to outwardly focus on relationships more than looks and what that might bring between the genders. men are at the same point asked to lower their gaze. Men are not allowed to show off their area from the navel to knees, but most importantly we are both required to not look twice if we happen to look upon something attractice/sexy/good-looking person.

 

Wearing the niqaab was something the Prophet's wives did. They were treated a bit differently and were very honored people. It should be noted that they were not isolated from society and some of them were even teaching other people incl. men, but with some modesty included. Point being that they were women and covering their face, but active and respected. It is a common interpretation that if you are especially attractive or ugly (i. e. stand out) then wearing niqaab is suggested, or if you want to, but niqaab is not something like the next step after the hijaab. It is not prescribed in the Quran, but many -or some?- women still choose to wear it (I have personally seen a trend for US converts to put it on, go figure).

 

I don't want to get into a discussion about Taliban which suppressed women. Some men enforce niqaab and isolation onto their women, but that is chauvinism and not Islam.

 

BTW, then I think you should open op communication when you meet a Muslim. We are usually very eager to interact in dialogue!

[Jyniffrec]

And there are many Christians that believe the Nicene Creed was incorrect. The trinity belief was not a Christan belief before the Creed.

 

I am a Christan I don't believe in the trinity. I believe Muslims, Jew and Christians are all trying to worship the same God.

 

The vast majority of Christians throughout history have believed in the Trinity. And while the Trinity may not have been an explicit belief before the Nicene Creed, the teachings of Jesus point to it as well as the Old Testament. The Church was in its infancy before 325. Many Christians lost life and limb for that belief. If you are thinking of the extra biblical books that didn't teach, or even denied, the Trinity, those were set aside or named as heresy long ago by the Christian community - they were not forgotten as many believe. And if you are pointing to the fractured post Reformation Church, I don't believe it is an easy thing to say that we all believe in the same God, even if we do all try to worship the same one. This discussion illustrates that perfectly.

 

I fully realize that I am not the Judge and that I shouldn't be. That is up to God alone. As a wise person once said, "We believe we know who is right, we just don't know who isn't."

[stripe]

Here is an example of how Muslims and Christians have similar theology about God, yet important differences. Muslims regard 99 traditional beautiful names of God. Christians generally agree with 96 of the names being consistent with the Bible. However, Christians do not agree with three of the names, including the Islamic beliefs that God is the Schemer and that God is The Source of Death.

"The Schemer" is not a name of Allah. (Just because someone said as much somewhere on the internet, does not make it true.)

 

Yes, Muslims believe God is The Giver of Life (that's one name), and also that God is The Taker of Life (another name). Do Christians not believe that God has control over life and death?

[Jyniffrec]

"The Schemer" is not a name of Allah. (Just because someone said as much somewhere on the internet, does not make it true.)

 

Yes, Muslims believe God is The Giver of Life (that's one name), and also that God is The Taker of Life (another name). Do Christians not believe that God has control over life and death?

 

We call Christ The Giver of Life. We sing it every Sunday in liturgy. He trampled down death with death and gave life to those in the tombs. So while Christ has conquered death, He does not take life.

[Renee in NC]

Well, there is some difference of opinion re. covering your face (or almost all of your face up till your eyes). The covering of your face is called wearing niqaab as opposed to wearing the headcover which is called hijaab. I believe burqa is more a term to describe that particular type of over-wear worn in fx. Afghanistan (and made infamous by the Taliban), but is not a religious term per se.

 

It says in the Quran that Believing women should cover themselves except for their hands and face and many believe it is just one more step for females to show obedience to GOD (not man) and an opportunity to outwardly focus on relationships more than looks and what that might bring between the genders. men are at the same point asked to lower their gaze. Men are not allowed to show off their area from the navel to knees, but most importantly we are both required to not look twice if we happen to look upon something attractice/sexy/good-looking person.

 

Wearing the niqaab was something the Prophet's wives did. They were treated a bit differently and were very honored people. It should be noted that they were not isolated from society and some of them were even teaching other people incl. men, but with some modesty included. Point being that they were women and covering their face, but active and respected. It is a common interpretation that if you are especially attractive or ugly (i. e. stand out) then wearing niqaab is suggested, or if you want to, but niqaab is not something like the next step after the hijaab. It is not prescribed in the Quran, but many -or some?- women still choose to wear it (I have personally seen a trend for US converts to put it on, go figure).

 

I don't want to get into a discussion about Taliban which suppressed women. Some men enforce niqaab and isolation onto their women, but that is chauvinism and not Islam.

 

BTW, then I think you should open op communication when you meet a Muslim. We are usually very eager to interact in dialogue!

 

See...very good answer to an interesting question!:D Thanks, Nadia.

[Firefly]

You could say that. And they could say "No offense, but you are mistaken about Jesus being the One True God." And you might say "Uh, no, you are mistaken, he really is." And they might say "Look, we know you Christians go in for trinities, but we have excellent, documented, theological reasons for not being persuaded that way ourselves." And after a bit of back and forth, eventually someone would have to say "I think we have adequately displayed how it came to be that the One True God got to be the boss of three different religions." Then some wag would say "Did you ever hear about the Ba'hai?"

 

Then before you know it, the conversation is 30 pages long. :p

 

Rosie

 

:lol:

 

OP: Pagan here, so I don't have a dog in this fight. But, having spent time living in the Middle East, enjoying fascinating discussions with Muslim friends on the topic, and learning about/reading the Koran-- yes, I do believe that Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all worshiping the same god.

[ravinlunachick]

I appreciate those who took the time to find scriptures to answer my question.

[Melinda in VT]

We call Christ The Giver of Life. We sing it every Sunday in liturgy. He trampled down death with death and gave life to those in the tombs. So while Christ has conquered death, He does not take life.

 

Don't Christian ministers say "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away" at the graveside service? In that context, isn't Life exactly what the Lord is taking?

[simka2]

Don't Christian ministers say "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away" at the graveside service? In that context, isn't Life exactly what the Lord is taking?

 

I am not sure if that is an orthodox concept.

[amey311]

BTW, then I think you should open op communication when you meet a Muslim. We are usually very eager to interact in dialogue!

 

I have definitely found this to be true. I'm sure it helps to frame your questions politely ("Can you tell me why you cover your hair?" Rather than "why do you always have that ridiculous scarf thing on your head?!") but that's a matter of manners, not theology.

 

I've asked an online Muslim friend to explain the intricacies of wearing her headscarf after I met her in person at a retreat where only women were present and her head was uncovered, but when someone's husband arrived to pick her up, "Sarah" covered her hair again. I asked her for more details about praying and having to be clean when that came up in SOTW (the kids wanted to know if people were really changing their clothes 5 times a day :) ), etc. Maybe she thinks I'm a pain in the ass, but her answers have always been polite and clear.

[Carol in Cal.]

I am not sure if that is an orthodox concept.

 

I believe it's a quote from Job, and in context, that the significance of it is not what God does but rather Job blessing His name regardless of what happens--declaring that He would have the right to take away life or health or whatever. In Job it is clear that God Himself does not do the taking, but rather Satan. However, God allows Satan the leeway to do this.

[LizzyBee]

I am not sure if that is an orthodox concept.

 

It is a direct quote from Job. :)

[Melinda in VT]

I believe it's a quote from Job, and in context, that the significance of it is not what God does but rather Job blessing His name regardless of what happens--declaring that He would have the right to take away life or health or whatever. In Job it is clear that God Himself does not do the taking, but rather Satan. However, God allows Satan the leeway to do this.

 

Thanks!

 

Job can be a dangerous book to quote out of context.

 

I still think that the use of this scripture at a graveside service indicates that there are Christians who view God as the taker of life. I've also heard Christians talking about how God "called someone home" and other similar phrases that indicate they think God ends life. Although others might disagree, I haven't heard anyone say that those Christians are worshipping a different God.

[justamouse]

Don't Christian ministers say "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away" at the graveside service? In that context, isn't Life exactly what the Lord is taking?

 

That quote from Job gets taken out of context all the time.

[justamouse]

I believe it's a quote from Job, and in context, that the significance of it is not what God does but rather Job blessing His name regardless of what happens--declaring that He would have the right to take away life or health or whatever. In Job it is clear that God Himself does not do the taking, but rather Satan. However, God allows Satan the leeway to do this.

 

thank you.

 

Though I would nit pick 'leeway'. free will and all that.

Edited September 9, 2011 by justamouse

[SailorMom]

And there are many Christians that believe the Nicene Creed was incorrect. The trinity belief was not a Christan belief before the Creed.

 

I am a Christan I don't believe in the trinity. I believe Muslims, Jew and Christians are all trying to worship the same God.

 

This is partially correct -

There were MANY Christians who disagreed with the Trinity concept before the Creed was agreed upon because they considered it non-Christian and even pagan. But it was being talked about before, and was a part of many localized theologies. Hence why it was argued about at Nicene.

 

However - there are no pre-Pauline references to the Trinity.

 

This is (possibly and most likely) because Paul preached in the Greek areas of the Roman Empire and was heavily exposed to Platonism. Followers of Platonism already considered God as one being with three aspects (read Plato - it's very interresting). In fact - there were trinity-type doctrines in other ancient faiths as well, but Platonism is the most familiar one.

[simka2]

I believe it's a quote from Job, and in context, that the significance of it is not what God does but rather Job blessing His name regardless of what happens--declaring that He would have the right to take away life or health or whatever. In Job it is clear that God Himself does not do the taking, but rather Satan. However, God allows Satan the leeway to do this.

 

It is an important distinction ;).

 

It is a direct quote from Job. :)

I know. It was using the quote to infer that God takes life that I was reffering to.

 

Thanks!

 

Job can be a dangerous book to quote out of context.

 

I still think that the use of this scripture at a graveside service indicates that there are Christians who view God as the taker of life. I've also heard Christians talking about how God "called someone home" and other similar phrases that indicate they think God ends life. Although others might disagree, I haven't heard anyone say that those Christians are worshipping a different God.

 

I am sure there are quite a few Christians who do hold to those views. I only quoted you, because you quoted a poster that I know is EO. I am reasonably sure it is not an EO concept. I should have been more clear :D.

[Melinda in VT]

I am sure there are quite a few Christians who do hold to those views. I only quoted you, because you quoted a poster that I know is EO. I am reasonably sure it is not an EO concept. I should have been more clear :D.

 

I'm glad you did, because I learned something.

 

I don't hold those views myself, so I'm certainly not arguing that all Christians do. My point is that I would be surprised if a Christian who didn't hold those views would tell a Christian who did that he or she was worshipping a different God. (So therefore I don't think it makes a good argument for the idea that Muslims worship a different God.)

 

That's all. :001_smile:

[MamaBearMO]

I am curious as to what you all think and I hope my Muslim mamas here chime in. :)

 

I have been studying the Middle East and Islam for a while. I am a Christian.

 

I had no clue until recently that Abraham was so significant in Islam. That then made me think that Allah and God seem to be the same.

 

I think Jesus is seen as a prophet (??? or just a nice guy lol) but not the son of God.

 

Help me think this through please. Thank you so much!

 

Yes, it is the same God, Islam is an Abrahamic monotheistic religion, in the same line as Judaism and Christianity. Muslims believe in Adam & Eve, Moses, Abraham, Noah, Salomon, and all the others in the Old Testament, the believe Jesus was a prophet and is the Messiah (that he will return, just like a Christian does), and the believe that Muhammad is a prophet who came after Jesus. They also believe in the angels, satan (shatan), heaven and hell and that Mary was a virgin and Jesus was born miraculously. They also believe in the miracles of Jesus throughout his life.

 

They do not baptize children and do not baptize themselves as adults.

 

They do not believe in original sin, and Eve is not held as responsible for their banishment from the Garden, they share the blame equally.

 

They do not believe Jesus died at the crucifixion, but Jesus was taken up by God, to heaven and will return again. The quran does say that his disciples saw him, in flesh and blood, before he rose to heaven.

 

Any of our Muslim posters can correct if I got anything wrong!

[MamaBearMO]

Do we have any Muslim posters who would like to chime in? I'm curious what they would say. Specifically, since many Muslims (or at least those who get all the press) say that Jews and Christians and all other non-Muslims are infidels, I'd guess that they don't think that "the big three" all worship the same God.

 

 

 

Jews & Christians = People of the Book

Non-believers = other people (religions) who haven't learned of Islam

Kaffir = those who reject Islam, a disbeliever (Jews & Christians are not kaffir since they're people of the book)

 

The term "infidel" is from the latin "infidelis" (‘not’ + ‘faithful’), and originally denoted a person of a religion other than one's own, specifically a Christian of a Muslim (believed to originate as a term/word during the Crusades).

[PeacefulChaos]

Yes, it is the same God, Islam is an Abrahamic monotheistic religion, in the same line as Judaism and Christianity. Muslims believe in Adam & Eve, Moses, Abraham, Noah, Salomon, and all the others in the Old Testament, the believe Jesus was a prophet and is the Messiah (that he will return, just like a Christian does), and the believe that Muhammad is a prophet who came after Jesus. They also believe in the angels, satan (shatan), heaven and hell and that Mary was a virgin and Jesus was born miraculously. They also believe in the miracles of Jesus throughout his life.

 

They do not baptize children and do not baptize themselves as adults.

 

They do not believe in original sin, and Eve is not held as responsible for their banishment from the Garden, they share the blame equally.

Christians don't find Eve solely responsible, either.

They do not believe Jesus died at the crucifixion, but Jesus was taken up by God, to heaven and will return again. The quran does say that his disciples saw him, in flesh and blood, before he rose to heaven.

This part also aligns with Christian beliefs

Any of our Muslim posters can correct if I got anything wrong!

:)

[twoforjoy]

I believe it's a quote from Job, and in context, that the significance of it is not what God does but rather Job blessing His name regardless of what happens--declaring that He would have the right to take away life or health or whatever. In Job it is clear that God Himself does not do the taking, but rather Satan. However, God allows Satan the leeway to do this.

 

What about the story of Ananais and Sapphira? It seems like God took their lives in a very direct way.

 

While the Bible doesn't use the phrase "bringing of death" or "taker of life" for God, there are certainly instances where God is portrayed as doing just that.

[Jyniffrec]

What about the story of Ananais and Sapphira? It seems like God took their lives in a very direct way.

 

While the Bible doesn't use the phrase "bringing of death" or "taker of life" for God, there are certainly instances where God is portrayed as doing just that.

 

This is true, but it is missing the point. In traditional Christianity death is not a punishment, it is the natural outcome of sin. We were prisoners who were freed when Christ died and rose from the dead. In one of the oldest hymns in Christianity, Christ is sung as the "Giver of Life". He is Lord over death and has conquered it. On Easter morning we sing, "Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life." So He may allow death and He is Lord over it, but He has clearly come to stamp it out in the end.

[Jyniffrec]

While we all came from the same tradition, the fact that Christians are not just monotheistic, but Trinitarian, makes us believe in a different God. And believing that Christ died for our sins, rose from the dead and has conquered death makes us believe in a different God. To the majority of Christians in history, the Trinity is God's essence, not just an idea. So unless someone from another faith can say they believe that then, no, we do not believe in the same God.

[Lovedtodeath]

This is partially correct -

There were MANY Christians who disagreed with the Trinity concept before the Creed was agreed upon because they considered it non-Christian and even pagan. But it was being talked about before, and was a part of many localized theologies. Hence why it was argued about at Nicene.

 

However - there are no pre-Pauline references to the Trinity.

:confused: I don't wish to argue. If one has God's Spirit, then the truth will be revealed to them. But just in case this helps anyone here, this is what comes to mind: John 20:28-29; John 8:56-59 Jesus spoke of himself as God and of the Father as God. Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?--John 14:9He also spoke of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 12:31 What about when Jesus was baptized and the Holy Spirit and the Father both witnessed who He was?

 

Then in Acts chapter 5 where the Holy Spirit is called God? "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

 

I have found that if I am open to it I even find references to the Trinity in the Hebrew scriptures. Like 2 Samuel 23:2,3, Psalm 110:1 and Genesis chapter 18 for example.

 

Or are you saying that the details of the Creed are what are problematic and not the idea of God manifesting himself to us in three different ways?

[Jyniffrec]

:confused: I don't wish to argue. If one has God's Spirit, then the truth will be revealed to them. But just in case this helps anyone here, this is what comes to mind: John 20:28-29; John 8:56-59 Jesus spoke of himself as God and of the Father as God. Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?--John 14:9He also spoke of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 12:31 What about when Jesus was baptized and the Holy Spirit and the Father both witnessed who He was?

 

Then in Acts chapter 5 where the Holy Spirit is called God? "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

 

I have found that if I am open to it I even find references to the Trinity in the Hebrew scriptures. Like 2 Samuel 23:2,3, Psalm 110:1 and Genesis chapter 18 for example.

 

Or are you saying that the details of the Creed are what are problematic and not the idea of God manifesting himself to us in three different ways?

 

:iagree: And in Genesis 1.

[SeekingHim77]

:confused: I don't wish to argue. If one has God's Spirit, then the truth will be revealed to them. But just in case this helps anyone here, this is what comes to mind: John 20:28-29; John 8:56-59 Jesus spoke of himself as God and of the Father as God. Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?--John 14:9He also spoke of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 12:31 What about when Jesus was baptized and the Holy Spirit and the Father both witnessed who He was?

 

Then in Acts chapter 5 where the Holy Spirit is called God? "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

 

I have found that if I am open to it I even find references to the Trinity in the Hebrew scriptures. Like 2 Samuel 23:2,3, Psalm 110:1 and Genesis chapter 18 for example.

 

Or are you saying that the details of the Creed are what are problematic and not the idea of God manifesting himself to us in three different ways?

 

:iagree:When I became a Christian, the concept of the Trinity was hard for me to swallow-I just didn't get it. I decided I had to come to terms with this doctrine once and for all and took a whole day with Strong's exhaustive concordance and my Bible to look every scripture reference I could find regarding this idea.

 

By the time I was done, I could clearly see the doctrine of the Trinity outlined in scripture for all to see.

 

There's also John chapter 1 which tells us the the Word was in the beginning, all was created by the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God and that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. This scripture is clearly referring to Jesus. That's one of my favorite scriptures-just beautiful.

 

One more thing, I have seen Jesus referred to as a wise man or a prophet many times. I fail to see how He could be considered as such. He made some very radical claims and I fail to see how he could be considered anything other than a mad man or God incarnate. There's no room for anything in between.