Life of Fred - Dogs review (spoiler included)

[deerforest]

Hi all,

 

I'm still new here, but I have benefitted from your reviews and recommendations for a long time so I thought I'd return the favor. I haven't seen any comments about Life of Fred - Dogs yet.

 

We were really enjoying the Life of Fred books. I saw them as a supplement and hoped they would spark a love of math in my language arts girl. We zoomed through Apples, Butterflies, and Cats. It was wonderful. They were easy and sparking a love of math. She begged to read them together all the time. Life of Fred = Life was good.

 

Until we got to Dogs. Conceptually, the material shot up rapidly. That was fine, just surprising because there seemed to be no transition. (I know some people have guessed that A,B,C = 1st grade and D, E, F = 2nd grade.. my girl is right in this target zone, and books A-C were easy for her. He spent the entire book A just adding numbers to 7, entire book B on 9, and now in D, it felt like he had a bunch of things he meant to include in the first set of 4 books and now was trying to cram them all in. The flow was just completely off and different from the first three, in my opinion.)

 

But, there were also some very tragic events in the story line. As the mom of an extremely sensitive child, I feel obligated to disclose these plot points. There was a very detailed incident involving Fred being cheated and robbed (and for those who don't know… Fred is a 5 year old child who happens to be a math professor), but the worst was several chapters about dogs at an animal shelter who were going to be euthanized. It was horrible. Luckily I scanned it somewhat on the fly, but we had to skip the last several chapters of the book.

 

I don't know..perhaps I am the only one with a 7 year old (a week from today!) who would be sensitive about these things--strangers, death, etc. But, somehow I doubt she is the only one...

 

I was so angry that I wrote the author a note explaining why I was so disappointed. But, basically, these books had sparked a love for math, and now I feel like they set us back even further with these scary, inappropriate, and completely unnecessary story plots!

 

Honestly, if I had known this, I would have skipped Dogs. I do not think these story lines added any value to the material, and it really soiled my whole perspective about this series. We had been excited for the next set of Elementary books, but now I'm just looking around for something else.

 

I'm interested to hear what others thought of this book.

[cuckoomamma]

I don't have the book, but am really thankful that you posted. Our girls are very sensitive and there's no way I'd choose to include discussing euthanasia as part of our math curriculum.

 

We've used other LOF books with our older dd to read as supplementary books, but will definitely skip Dogs.

[NittanyJen]

I am happy for the heads up, but I will likely now happily proceed with Dogs!

 

If anything, if you have pets, being responsible with them at the end of their lives is a part of being a responsible pet owner. We sadly had to recently go through this with our beloved 16 YO cat. There was no hiding it from the kids, and I was certainly not going to lie to my children about what happened to Oliver (they actually came to the vet with us, and it was very healing for them to see how gently he went down). My older on is a 'sensitive' child as you put it; the younger, more practical.

 

One of the things I love about Fred is that it does what homeschooling does; it breaks down the walls, and says, "no more silly distinctions that this time is just math, this time is just grammar, this time is just science, and now back to home life.". It is all integrated. If we have an important and meaningful discussion inspired by a math book, maybe the kids will get a lot out of the conversation, AND remember that it took place while reading a math book... How refreshing after years of, "I hate math because it doesn't apply to me!"

 

Your review has made me that much more excited to get to Dogs, because it brings up a really important topic for any pet owning family to have with their kids so it isn't a shock when the time comes... But I am glad you wrote the review, because it will be nice to choose the timing of the conversation!

[deerforest]

Your review has made me that much more excited to get to Dogs, because it brings up a really important topic for any pet owning family to have with their kids so it isn't a shock when the time comes... But I am glad you wrote the review, because it will be nice to choose the timing of the conversation!

 

I'm glad this is helpful to you, but my 7 year old has lived through the euthanasia of 4 beloved elderly cats--at their advanced ages of 17, 18, 17, and 18 years of age. She was at the vet for all of them and in the room for one of them at her request. She watched their declining health. She experienced the pain quite vividly. She decorated the boxes they are buried in. She helped dig the holes where they are buried in our backyard.

 

So, I can safely state that she understands having to make these decisions as responsible pet owners. However, that was not at all the context in which this happened in the book. Instead, there were 30 dogs at an animal shelter that were due to be euthanized. It looked like they were about to be saved, but in the end they likely were not. The book ends with Fred crying and us not knowing.

 

Perhaps the fact that my child has actually lived through these experiences, makes us far less enthusiastic about reading them in a math book.

 

As for the other comments, we are predominantly a living math family. We use RightStart, but the bulk of our math learning comes from living math books, games, etc. This is why we loved the first three books of LoF.

[sbgrace]

OP--how detailed was the writing in the disturbing part? Did it mention euthanasia or describe the death for example? I've got a sensitive 7 year old too. :grouphug:

 

If I needed to skip that part for now how much of the book would I be missing--3 of the chapters?

[deerforest]

OP--how detailed was the writing in the disturbing part? Did it mention euthanasia or describe the death for example? I've got a sensitive 7 year old too. :grouphug:

 

If I needed to skip that part for now how much of the book would I be missing--3 of the chapters?

 

Oh it was impossible to miss. In the middle of Chapter 13 there is a newspaper headline that reads in bold letters "Dogs to Die Today" and then explains that the animal shelter has no more cages.

 

All of the rest of the chapters (so end of 13-19) discuss this in great detail. Synopsis: Fred runs to get money to save them, but gets there too late but his friends saved them. But, then none of them can take care of them so they bring them back to the animal shelter. The last sentences of the book are: "He took Ralph and the other 29 dogs back to the animal shelter. And he cried."

 

Sorry, I don't see irresponsibly adopting 30 dogs you can't take care of and then bringing them back to the shelter to be a shining example of responsible pet ownership.

[lamolina]

Apart from the dog/euthanasia plot line, could you explain a little more about what math topics are included and what makes the book seem to get much harder than the first three?

thanks.

[deerforest]

Yep, all of my pets have always been shelter rescues, and DD was with us to adopt our current 4 cats.

 

If you don't have a sensitive kid, it might be difficult to appreciate what dealing with these topics out of context does. Do not confuse "sensitive" with "sheltered". The two are not at all the same.

 

So, to summarize, the topics in Dogs were topics that we have discussed often within the appropriate context and on a very personal level.

 

However, my sensitive child likes to be prepared for these topics. She is very cognizant of her sensitivities, and I respect her boundaries. There was nothing in the first 3 books that would have prepared me for something as serious as this. The other books were totally ridiculously fun. I felt blindsided.

 

If I had read a thread like this, I would have either skipped Dogs entirely or just ended before chapter 13.

[deerforest]

Apart from the dog/euthanasia plot line, could you explain a little more about what math topics are included and what makes the book seem to get much harder than the first three?

thanks.

 

It was more a matter of the seemingly sudden jump from books dedicated to just 1 or 2 math facts (adding to 7 and 9, mostly) to a larger variety, 2, 3, and 4 digit addition, etc. It's not so much that the content in Dogs is so difficult--I believe it's still within the age range. It just seemed that there was such a slow ramp up in the other books in comparison.

 

I guess everything in Dogs was just surprising to me.

[Tranquility7]

OP – Thanks for the heads up! I’m sorry that you and your DD were blindsided with (legitimately) unexpected sensitive content. :grouphug: I hate it when that happens, and it was very considerate of you to post about it.

 

Also, kudos to you for not getting annoyed with this thread, LOL! :001_smile: Sometimes it is so funny to me that someone can post something just as a heads up FYI, and all of a sudden they are stuck defending themselves! Just for the record, I do *not* think that the fact that you gave us a heads up means:

1) that you don’t appreciate the classical emphasis on integrating topics from “different subjectsâ€,

2) that you can’t redeem an unexpected topic into a fruitful discussion,

3) that you don’t appreciate responsible reproductive and end-of-life care for your pets,

4) that you don’t care about shelter animals, or

5) that you shelter your child inappropriately.

 

On the other hand, I DO Think that the fact that you gave us a heads up means:

1) that you know your children well, and like to exercise wisdom and care in how and when you expose them to certain themes (like practically ALL homeschoolers I know!),

2) that you would have appreciated a heads up yourself, and

3) that you are considerate person, giving to others what you yourself wish you had gotten.

 

So for that, I simply say, Thanks!

[TracyP]

Thanks for the heads up! This won't play into my decision for or against using Dogs, but a heads up on a topic as sensitive as animal euthanasia in a math book is very nice.

[SEGway]

OP – Thanks for the heads up! I’m sorry that you and your DD were blindsided with (legitimately) unexpected sensitive content. :grouphug: I hate it when that happens, and it was very considerate of you to post about it.

 

Also, kudos to you for not getting annoyed with this thread, LOL! :001_smile: Sometimes it is so funny to me that someone can post something just as a heads up FYI, and all of a sudden they are stuck defending themselves! Just for the record, I do *not* think that the fact that you gave us a heads up means:

1) that you don’t appreciate the classical emphasis on integrating topics from “different subjectsâ€,

2) that you can’t redeem an unexpected topic into a fruitful discussion,

3) that you don’t appreciate responsible reproductive and end-of-life care for your pets,

4) that you don’t care about shelter animals, or

5) that you shelter your child inappropriately.

 

On the other hand, I DO Think that the fact that you gave us a heads up means:

1) that you know your children well, and like to exercise wisdom and care in how and when you expose them to certain themes (like practically ALL homeschoolers I know!),

2) that you would have appreciated a heads up yourself, and

3) that you are considerate person, giving to others what you yourself wish you had gotten.

 

So for that, I simply say, Thanks!

 

:iagree:

[zoo_keeper]

Thanks for the heads up! This won't play into my decision for or against using Dogs, but a heads up on a topic as sensitive as animal euthanasia in a math book is very nice.

 

^^^ITA. I'll probably still use it (we're loving LoF), but I think I'll skip the recommended chapter. Our eldest would dissolve if 30 dogs were put to sleep. Our household is overrun with animals, one of which was put to sleep this year. They just don't need to encounter that level of emotion in an otherwise enjoyable book.

[lexi]

OP – Thanks for the heads up! I’m sorry that you and your DD were blindsided with (legitimately) unexpected sensitive content. :grouphug: I hate it when that happens, and it was very considerate of you to post about it.

 

Also, kudos to you for not getting annoyed with this thread, LOL! :001_smile: Sometimes it is so funny to me that someone can post something just as a heads up FYI, and all of a sudden they are stuck defending themselves! Just for the record, I do *not* think that the fact that you gave us a heads up means:

1) that you don’t appreciate the classical emphasis on integrating topics from “different subjectsâ€,

2) that you can’t redeem an unexpected topic into a fruitful discussion,

3) that you don’t appreciate responsible reproductive and end-of-life care for your pets,

4) that you don’t care about shelter animals, or

5) that you shelter your child inappropriately.

 

On the other hand, I DO Think that the fact that you gave us a heads up means:

1) that you know your children well, and like to exercise wisdom and care in how and when you expose them to certain themes (like practically ALL homeschoolers I know!),

2) that you would have appreciated a heads up yourself, and

3) that you are considerate person, giving to others what you yourself wish you had gotten.

 

So for that, I simply say, Thanks!

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

I SO appreciate the FYI as it can help me to determine if this book fits my family or not. For us, that chapter would be a no-go! My daughter sounds like yours.

 

I'm so sorry you've had to defend yourself in this thread. This post is about math and it has dissolved into a discussion of whether or not you are a responsible pet owner if you have not discussed euthanasia with your young child.

 

Anyone who has ever owned a pet has had to handle the death of that pet and discuss it with their child (or they will have to someday). But the storyline of that chapter is not something I personally would be prepared to discuss in a math book and I don't think the way the author approached it sounds very appropriate.

 

We homeschool so we can integrate topics at will. And we also homeschool so we can choose WHEN those topics will be integrated into our individual children's studies.

 

So........for some of you, go buy the book and then make a unit study or lapbook on pet ownership. And for others, skip that chapter as a well-informed parent and enjoy the benefits of the rest of book-minus the tears.

[starwarsmomma]

Yeah, thanks for the heads up. My middle son would totally freak at that.

 

He cries for an hour every time they show that d&^%$n commercial for abused pets... He's THAT sensitive.

 

He loves reading and reads everything he can get his hands on, and he's at the point where he wont read animal books unless I read it first to make sure there's no hurt or dying animals in the story. He just can't handle it... Nightmares, crying... NOT worth it.

[Jay3fer]

:iagree:Thanks for the heads-up. would i still do this book? probably.

Dd6 is so morbid that this would just fascinate her! she'd probably ask me to read it to her again and again. And then dd15 would sigh and groan and scream about how morbid dd6 is and how inappropriate the book is and why do we have to homeschool anyway... yup, the healthy family dynamics would just be amazing. :lol:

[Tree House Academy]

OP – Thanks for the heads up! I’m sorry that you and your DD were blindsided with (legitimately) unexpected sensitive content. :grouphug: I hate it when that happens, and it was very considerate of you to post about it.

 

Also, kudos to you for not getting annoyed with this thread, LOL! :001_smile: Sometimes it is so funny to me that someone can post something just as a heads up FYI, and all of a sudden they are stuck defending themselves! Just for the record, I do *not* think that the fact that you gave us a heads up means:

1) that you don’t appreciate the classical emphasis on integrating topics from “different subjectsâ€,

2) that you can’t redeem an unexpected topic into a fruitful discussion,

3) that you don’t appreciate responsible reproductive and end-of-life care for your pets,

4) that you don’t care about shelter animals, or

5) that you shelter your child inappropriately.

 

On the other hand, I DO Think that the fact that you gave us a heads up means:

1) that you know your children well, and like to exercise wisdom and care in how and when you expose them to certain themes (like practically ALL homeschoolers I know!),

2) that you would have appreciated a heads up yourself, and

3) that you are considerate person, giving to others what you yourself wish you had gotten.

 

So for that, I simply say, Thanks!

 

:iagree: We don't even use LoF and I still love what this poster said. Thank you, OP, for the heads up.

 

We have adopted 6 shelter cats in the last 14 years. We donate and volunteer with our local shelters. My kids know about euthanasia and we all cry when we can't save one. If I read something to my sons about someone rescuing 30 dogs - (with one of the dogs even named and obviously loved or personified in the story) only to then not take care of them and RETURN them to the shelter to be killed, we would ALL be upset. We know the grim reality - we don't need a reminder in homeschool math!

[edelweiss]

Thanks for the heads up! We'll likely skip Dogs, or at the very least, that chapter. Maybe we'll just wait for the new books to come out in Oct.

[ktgrok]

Yeah, thanks for the heads up. My middle son would totally freak at that.

 

He cries for an hour every time they show that d&^%$n commercial for abused pets... He's THAT sensitive.

 

He loves reading and reads everything he can get his hands on, and he's at the point where he wont read animal books unless I read it first to make sure there's no hurt or dying animals in the story. He just can't handle it... Nightmares, crying... NOT worth it.

 

Don't expect him to grow out of it either. I'm the same way STILL. I almost left the theater during the movie Daylight, because they made it seem like the dog had drowned. I'm glad I stayed though, as the dog was ok :)

 

I wont' watch movies where animals are hurt or die, if I can help it.

 

And I'm a certified Veterinary Technician, and dog trainer, so it isn't that I don't understand the concept of euthanasia.

[deerforest]

Thanks, all! I'm glad my post was helpful to some. I would have really appreciated the advanced info too. Even though I'm new here, I'm not new to message boards so most people's comments just roll off my back. I found the conclusion jumping somewhat hilarious, but I appreciate the support!

 

My DD also makes me pre-screen books for her...she's an advanced reader and it's really hard to find gentle chapter books sometimes. Classics like Charlotte's Web won't be read around here for a long time.. It's just who she is!

 

Like I said, we really enjoyed A-C, but the thing that makes me most disappointed is when DD told me yesterday that she was mad at Fred for getting scary. She really was loving the books, and I am disappointed for her sake.

[mommymilkies]

Don't expect him to grow out of it either. I'm the same way STILL. I almost left the theater during the movie Daylight, because they made it seem like the dog had drowned. I'm glad I stayed though, as the dog was ok :)

 

I wont' watch movies where animals are hurt or die, if I can help it.

 

:iagree: We have rescued dozens of pets. My kids are way too sensitive about animals for a chapter like that. Thanks for the heads up.

[NittanyJen]

I missed any part where the OP had to defend herself. Or is having a different approach to things or different feelings not allowed on TWTM boards? I am confused.

 

I thanked the OP for her review, and it was heartfelt. Her review got me excited about continuing the elementary LoF series, including the D book that she disliked; we simply had opposite reactions to her review, and I stated my reasons for my feelings. I had thought that I was entitled to my feelings, just as she is entitled to hers. I respect the OP and her decisions about how she teaches her children, but apparently, I am not permitted to go my own way without being judged.

 

My children too, as I stated in my original post, just experienced watching the long decline of one of their cats and his euthanasia in the office. One of my kids is rather sensitive and cries over it at the drop of a hat. We deal with it by talking through it, often. Even in the middle of a math lesson if need be. That is just us. I further appreciate the extra clarification on the situation in the book about the shelter animals and Fred's reaction. Our animals have all been shelter animals, and we may one day adopt another. I also talk to my kids about community service and responsible citizenship, which are often healthy responses to tragic events. I wonder how Fred will respond to this crisis? It sounds like a good conversation starter.

 

I can understand where this chapter/group of chapters won't be everyone's cup of tea. But I don't think anyone should feel defensive because I think it's great. I'm just left wondering where there was any conclusion jumping (just because I felt a certain way does not mean I figured you don't hold those values at all; I was explaining my train of thought for that particular context, KWIM?). I think that by assuming otherwise, OTHER folks were jumping to conclusions.

 

Remember folks, message boards are not like a real-life conversation. You don't hear tone of voice. You can't ask for or get immediate clarification of what someone meant. If a person does not SAY something like, "You don't think this because I do, and we disagree!" chances are, they probably aren't thinking it, either.

 

Back to Fred, and hopefully back to being less judgmental... I certainly wasn't in my first post, and I'm horrified that people would even wish to read it that way.

[NittanyJen]

 

Like I said, we really enjoyed A-C, but the thing that makes me most disappointed is when DD told me yesterday that she was mad at Fred for getting scary. She really was loving the books, and I am disappointed for her sake.

 

 

Awwww, now that part broke my heart!!

[Joy at Home]

Jen, totally agree here:confused:

 

Don't get the "need to defend yourself" comment at all. You posted your perspective:confused:

 

Disagreement does not equal judgment.

 

Lisa

 

 

 

I missed any part where the OP had to defend herself. Or is having a different approach to things or different feelings not allowed on TWTM boards? I am confused.

 

I thanked the OP for her review, and it was heartfelt. Her review got me excited about continuing the elementary LoF series, including the D book that she disliked; we simply had opposite reactions to her review, and I stated my reasons for my feelings. I had thought that I was entitled to my feelings, just as she is entitled to hers. I respect the OP and her decisions about how she teaches her children, but apparently, I am not permitted to go my own way without being judged.

 

My children too, as I stated in my original post, just experienced watching the long decline of one of their cats and his euthanasia in the office. One of my kids is rather sensitive and cries over it at the drop of a hat. We deal with it by talking through it, often. Even in the middle of a math lesson if need be. That is just us. I further appreciate the extra clarification on the situation in the book about the shelter animals and Fred's reaction. Our animals have all been shelter animals, and we may one day adopt another. I also talk to my kids about community service and responsible citizenship, which are often healthy responses to tragic events. I wonder how Fred will respond to this crisis? It sounds like a good conversation starter.

 

I can understand where this chapter/group of chapters won't be everyone's cup of tea. But I don't think anyone should feel defensive because I think it's great. I'm just left wondering where there was any conclusion jumping (just because I felt a certain way does not mean I figured you don't hold those values at all; I was explaining my train of thought for that particular context, KWIM?). I think that by assuming otherwise, OTHER folks were jumping to conclusions.

 

Remember folks, message boards are not like a real-life conversation. You don't hear tone of voice. You can't ask for or get immediate clarification of what someone meant. If a person does not SAY something like, "You don't think this because I do, and we disagree!" chances are, they probably aren't thinking it, either.

 

Back to Fred, and hopefully back to being less judgmental... I certainly wasn't in my first post, and I'm horrified that people would even wish to read it that way.

[monalisa]

THANK YOU Deer Forest for posting this ! I had read LOF A-C, and my dd has really enjoyed them. I just pulled out D to read it for myself, and my dd would be upset for weeks if she read this. This would definitely NOT enhance her enjoyment of math. We're in B, and I'm stopping after this one to avoid it. We have enough drama IRL, and I don't need more in math.

Edited September 1, 2011 by monalisa

[Pamela H in Texas]

Thank you for sharing this.

 

Regardless of whether the subject matter is appropriate or not for a specific child or even all children of a given age, I don't understand why it would need to be used in a math book. This isn't the first time this author has had an issue with his choices either. I simply don't understand why he goes there at all when it just isn't necessary. You'd think he'd want to make the range of people he can reach as wide as possible. No doubt, staying away from concerning issues, whether valid or not, would help him reach more of us.

 

Anyway, I'm glad to see a review of the new books :)

[baybedaul]

I too appreciate the heads-up!

[Stellalarella]

I would like to give you quotes from the following chapter so that you can read for yourself how the material is presented.

It seems to me that the underlying lesson is understanding the consequences of making decisions for emotional reasons without considering the time cost, labor cost, personal cost, money cost. This emotional issue and Fred’s tender heart show the difficulty of these decisions. IMO.

 

First of all in Chapter 13, We learn from a newspaper article that the shelter has been overrun with dogs. The article says,

In December the shelter received 50 dogs and the public only adopted 20.

In January many people had spent so much money on Christmas presents that they could not afford to keep their dogs.

“It’s cruel,” said Mrs. Hund, “To keep so many dogs in so few cages. Today at 1 p.m. we will have to put 30 of them to sleep.”

Fred was in a panic. He was only five years old, and he didn’t realize that animal shelters often have to euthanize dogs and cats when not enough people come to adopt them.

 

In Ch. 14, Fred immediately runs down to the shelter to adopt the dogs but is confronted with the reality that it costs money. Undeterred, Fred makes another plan.

Fred said, “I’ve got to borrow $300 in order to save the 30 dogs.”

He calls his friends to ask for help, but neither Betty nor Alexander answer.

In Ch. 15, Kingie offers to lend Fred the money and Fred runs back to the shelter, only to find out that he is too late.

Fred cried.

Mrs. Hund leaned over and put her hand on his shoulder. “It’s okay. I’m sorry you were too late. Just five minutes ago....”

Fred sobbed.

“Just five minutes ago, a tall fellow and his girlfriend, (sic) came in. They each adopted 15 of the dogs.”

Mrs. Hund continued, “They went around to the back of the building to pick up their dogs. They said they were students at the university. Do you know them? Their names were Alexander and Betty.”

 

In Ch 16, Fred talks with Betty and Alexander.

Betty explained to Fred, “I know this seems silly--our getting thirty dogs from the animal shelter. We read in the KITTEN Caboodle newspaper about their putting these dogs to sleep and decided to help.”

She told Fred how they got their checkbooks and headed to the animal shelter.

 

In Ch 17, Fred enjoys walking the dogs, particularly one dog. Betty gives the dog to Fred and he names her Ralph. Fred brings Ralph home to his office.

[I]Kingie was in the office doing his usual thing. Fred said, “Shut your eyes. I have a surprise for you.”

Kingie shut his eyes, hoping that it wasn’t another cat.

Ralph came up to Kingie and gave him a lick. Kingie tasted a little like butter.”[/i]

 

Chapter 18 is titled “One Becomes 30.” Betty comes back to Fred’s office with bad news. Neither her apartment nor Alexander’s place allows dogs. Darlene and Joe can’t take the dogs, either. Fred decides he will take all the dogs.

Betty and Alexander thanked Fred. Alexander shook Fred’s hand and said, “You’re a good man.” Betty kissed Fred on the cheek.

Then they left, feeling very relieved that they had found a home for all those dogs.

Fred begins to care for the dogs--which takes a long time. He also gets the message from Kingie that Kingie does not want to take care of the dogs.

 

Finally, in Ch. 19, Fred begins to think about what it means to be the master of a dog. He really thinks it through. And the quote below is how the book ends.

 

..It will lick your hand. It will fetch the ball you throw. It looks up to you. You are the leader. You are the head wolf. (No one has ever figured out how to be a leader for cats.)

If you can’t be president, or policeman, or a cloud that rains on everybody, at least you can own a dog.

The “problem” with Fred is that he didn’t want to be president and rule over other people. He needed love--as everyone does--but he didn’t need 30 dogs to give him dog love. He knew that God loved him and that he had friends who loved him.

But he didn’t have ten hours each day to walk those dogs. He didn’t have money to feed them or get dog licenses.

He phoned everyone he knew and asked them if they would like a dog. No one did.

 

He took Ralph and the other 29 dogs back to the animal shelter. And he cried.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Andrea Lowry
misspelling licenses, misplaced bolding

[edelweiss]

Yikes!!! Yes, we will definitely be skipping LOF: Dogs!! OP, thank you SO much for posting your concerns. I was getting ready to order it soon.

[zoo_keeper]

Thanks for the detailed excerpts. It seems like I wouldn't even be able to skip one chapter, but that the series of events persists throughout the entire book. Plus, if we skipped the final chapter, the girls would be left at the point where Fred was caring for 30 dogs and then book E would open without any dogs in the office. Questions would abound. Sigh... Why? If he (the author) wanted to incorporate a lessen about prioritizing wants/needs and responsibility (a good thing, IMO), there were plenty of other less traumatizing ways to go about such an endeavor.

[yslek]

Thank you for sharing this.

 

Regardless of whether the subject matter is appropriate or not for a specific child or even all children of a given age, I don't understand why it would need to be used in a math book. This isn't the first time this author has had an issue with his choices either. I simply don't understand why he goes there at all when it just isn't necessary. You'd think he'd want to make the range of people he can reach as wide as possible. No doubt, staying away from concerning issues, whether valid or not, would help him reach more of us.

 

Anyway, I'm glad to see a review of the new books :)

 

I, too, appreciate the heads-up. D was really enjoying the Apples book, but the Dogs book would likely disturb her, too.

 

I imagine that the author probably has a quirky sense of humour and is not purposefully trying to disturb the children he's writing to. My dh will sometimes say stuff that can sound rude or otherwise off-the-wall but isn't intended that way at all. Not everyone is skilled in the area of empathy. ;)

[hmschooling]

I don't have a kid that would be disturbed by this at all...well, maybe my almost 5yo ds. But, honestly, with a series we all live bc of it's light hearted and fun plots that make math enjoyable, WHY would something dark and heavy be put in there. It's totally against the flow and not at all what has made everyone love LoF. Seems odd to me.

 

Besides that, almost everyone has missed the big fact if the actual content and pacing issues. That bothers me that the pace totally changes, and it's so different than the precious books. And e expects each book to take about a month? So this isn't really bc it's a higher grade?? Has anyone gotten a straight answer about the intended grade levels or anything remotely helpful in figuring out a guideline for that?

[Stellalarella]

The author is very open to communication, it would seem. On his website he lists both his email address and phone numbers. If you have questions, dial him up! :001_smile:

 

http://www.stanleyschmidt.com/

[deerforest]

The author is very open to communication, it would seem. On his website he lists both his email address and phone numbers. If you have questions, dial him up! :001_smile:

 

http://www.stanleyschmidt.com/

 

I emailed him before I posted here. He told me I was the first report like this ever in years. I'm not going to go into detail or post our exchange, but it left me feeling dissatisfied as a customer, puzzled by his responses, and very uncertain about whether to use any of the other books.

[edelweiss]

I emailed him before I posted here. He told me I was the first report like this ever in years. I'm not going to go into detail or post our exchange, but it left me feeling dissatisfied as a customer, puzzled by his responses, and very uncertain about whether to use any of the other books.

 

That is very disappointing to hear. :001_huh:

[Stellalarella]

I will agree that getting whammed with a surprise shock isn't fun. I remember a friend enthusiastically begging me to read a book that I thought was supposed to be a nice triumph over difficulty story and then feeling like I had been hit with a tragedy bus in the middle of the book. "Give the reader some foreshadowing you sadistic author!" I yelled. So thank goodness for the LOF return policy. The website says you can return the book for a refund. Here

Thank you, deerforest, (OP) for opening up the conversation on this. Have you thought about also posting a review on Rainbow Resource? It might be helpful to people there as well as here. I was glad for your review.

 

Dogs would have surprised me too if we had not experienced the Fred character over the past 12 months. I've come to value the way Fred has to work through different issues. My kids have emotionally invested in the story of Fred because it is simultaneously wacky and deep. They enjoy Fred. They also feel for Fred. They learn from Fred. It's the story that makes them love doing math. I think my kids will do OK with Dogs. The only thing that I"m worried about is that they will want me to read it over and over so they can understand it. When we rowed "The Clown of God" for FIAR, they were taken aback by the sad events. Their response was not to recoil, but to read it over and over and over and over.

 

I appreciate hearing thoughts about the book from both perspectives. Thanks to thoughtful previous posters.

[Shellydon]

I would like to give you quotes from the following chapter so that you can read for yourself how the material is presented.

It seems to me that the underlying lesson is understanding the consequences of making decisions for emotional reasons without considering the time cost, labor cost, personal cost, money cost. This emotional issue and Fred’s tender heart show the difficulty of these decisions. IMO.

 

First of all in Chapter 13, We learn from a newspaper article that the shelter has been overrun with dogs. The article says,

In December the shelter received 50 dogs and the public only adopted 20.

In January many people had spent so much money on Christmas presents that they could not afford to keep their dogs.

“It’s cruel,†said Mrs. Hund, “To keep so many dogs in so few cages. Today at 1 p.m. we will have to put 30 of them to sleep.â€

Fred was in a panic. He was only five years old, and he didn’t realize that animal shelters often have to euthanize dogs and cats when not enough people come to adopt them.

 

In Ch. 14, Fred immediately runs down to the shelter to adopt the dogs but is confronted with the reality that it costs money. Undeterred, Fred makes another plan.

Fred said, “I’ve got to borrow $300 in order to save the 30 dogs.â€

He calls his friends to ask for help, but neither Betty nor Alexander answer.

In Ch. 15, Kingie offers to lend Fred the money and Fred runs back to the shelter, only to find out that he is too late.

Fred cried.

Mrs. Hund leaned over and put her hand on his shoulder. “It’s okay. I’m sorry you were too late. Just five minutes ago....â€

Fred sobbed.

“Just five minutes ago, a tall fellow and his girlfriend, (sic) came in. They each adopted 15 of the dogs.â€

Mrs. Hund continued, “They went around to the back of the building to pick up their dogs. They said they were students at the university. Do you know them? Their names were Alexander and Betty.â€

 

In Ch 16, Fred talks with Betty and Alexander.

Betty explained to Fred, “I know this seems silly--our getting thirty dogs from the animal shelter. We read in the KITTEN Caboodle newspaper about their putting these dogs to sleep and decided to help.â€

She told Fred how they got their checkbooks and headed to the animal shelter.

 

In Ch 17, Fred enjoys walking the dogs, particularly one dog. Betty gives the dog to Fred and he names her Ralph. Fred brings Ralph home to his office.

[I]Kingie was in the office doing his usual thing. Fred said, “Shut your eyes. I have a surprise for you.â€

Kingie shut his eyes, hoping that it wasn’t another cat.

Ralph came up to Kingie and gave him a lick. Kingie tasted a little like butter.â€[/i]

 

Chapter 18 is titled “One Becomes 30.†Betty comes back to Fred’s office with bad news. Neither her apartment nor Alexander’s place allows dogs. Darlene and Joe can’t take the dogs, either. Fred decides he will take all the dogs.

Betty and Alexander thanked Fred. Alexander shook Fred’s hand and said, “You’re a good man.†Betty kissed Fred on the cheek.

Then they left, feeling very relieved that they had found a home for all those dogs.

Fred begins to care for the dogs--which takes a long time. He also gets the message from Kingie that Kingie does not want to take care of the dogs.

 

Finally, in Ch. 19, Fred begins to think about what it means to be the master of a dog. He really thinks it through. And the quote below is how the book ends.

 

..It will lick your hand. It will fetch the ball you throw. It looks up to you. You are the leader. You are the head wolf. (No one has ever figured out how to be a leader for cats.)

If you can’t be president, or policeman, or a cloud that rains on everybody, at least you can own a dog.

The “problem†with Fred is that he didn’t want to be president and rule over other people. He needed love--as everyone does--but he didn’t need 30 dogs to give him dog love. He knew that God loved him and that he had friends who loved him.

But he didn’t have ten hours each day to walk those dogs. He didn’t have money to feed them or get dog licenses.

He phoned everyone he knew and asked them if they would like a dog. No one did.

 

He took Ralph and the other 29 dogs back to the animal shelter. And he cried.

 

IMO, that is just awful all the way around. Yuck.

[Pamela H in Texas]

The website says there are 12 books for what is roughly 1st through 4th grades. I don't think we can just judge that 3 books is a grade level though, esp since the books are being released in groups of four, not three. I think he just expects you'll go from one to another has appropriate for the individual student.

[kochanyk]

Tysm for the heads up! I have one in counseling for anxiety I really cannot imagine a book like this would go over well and I doubt I would have pre-read considering it's LOF!

[JeneralMom]

Wow, I do not think my 8yo would be able to handle the thought of all 30 dogs going back to the pound to be put to death. Why would the authour do that? That ending is just so sad, even for me.

[Aurelia]

I don't really see where the dogs were being put to sleep immediately after being returned. I understand that Fred would cry when he realized he couldn't take care of them and he wanted to (maybe it's because I have a drama queen who would be exactly the same way), but it's not as bad to me as others seem to have interpreted it.

 

If we have problems with the story (assuming we get that far, I only just ordered Apples to try out), I anticipate we'll have a discussion that will end up with Ariel deciding that some other people adopted them, possibly from in front of PetSmart, since we see shelter dogs there almost every time we go. :001_huh:

[pgr]

Deerforest,

 

Thank you for posting this. We just started Apples, and are really enjoying LOF so far.

 

I feel it's my job to discuss potentially sensitive topics with my kids when and how I feel appropriate. While it may very well be appropriate in the context of LOF, I would want that to be a decision I make, and not one that is made for me without my knowledge. Without your post, the latter might have happened, as my DD reads a lot on her own. I do make well researched purchases, and don't just hand her stuff, but I also don't preread every math word problem...

 

Echoing what some others have said - regardless of whether or not we decide to use it, I totally appreciate the heads up!

[ElizaG]

Thanks for posting the excerpts. I like the way he presents this topic.

 

Our children are sensitive and would take this story to heart, but not in a way that would harm them, IYKWIM. More like the Narnia books or something like that. ETA: by which I mean that they have a hard time with bad/scary stuff coming out of nowhere -- like cartoon villains -- but not when it's in an overall moral context that makes sense.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Eleanor

[laundrycrisis]

Thank you Deerforest for starting this thread, and Andrea, for the detailed excerpts. IMO the story line including euthanasia/pet overpopulation is disturbing and has no place in a book about math for kids...and the business about Fred not wanting to be president or to rule over others and not needing dog love because "God and his friends love him" is warped ! It's nothing but a distasteful way to drag in religion and the author's personal views on the psychology of dog ownership. This is an entire series I will avoid.

Edited October 2, 2011 by laundrycrisis

[FO4UR]

While I can understand why some children may be too sensitive....

 

 

The excerpt in this thread was very tasteful imho. I don't see anything wrong with it. It's factual...it is what happens to pets in shelters...and it's sympathetic towards the animals. Having a sad ending (actually a clifhanger) doesn't make it bad/wrong.:001_huh:

 

To each their own.

[zoo_keeper]

Thank you Deerforest for starting this thread, and Andrea, for the detailed excerpts. IMO the story line including euthanasia/pet overpopulation is disturbing and has no place in a book about math for kids...and the business about Fred not wanting to be president or to rule over others and not needing dog love because "God and his friends love him" is warped. This is an entire series I will avoid.

 

To be fair, I don't think the author was arguing that God's love renders dog ownership useless. Instead, IMO, he was arguing that everyone needs love, that this love can come from a variety of sources, and that since his love needs were already being met (regardless of the source) he wasn't searching to fill that particular void. And given that he (a) didn't feel the need to be the master of someone/something, and (b) didn't have the time to properly care for 30 animals, that owning 30 dogs was not responsible/necessary. He was definitely not saying that dog ownership signalled a lack of relationship with God, or that including both God and dogs in one's life wouldn't be beneficial. Even things that aren't needed can still enhance our lives.

 

Just my opinion, I just don't find that particular passage "warped."

 

That said, I still am avoiding the Dogs book because of the unnecessarily upsetting content. But my girls loooooove the Fred books (and their dogs!) so despite the Christian overtones (we're agnostic, personally) we'll continue to follow the series.

[poetic license]

While I can understand why some children may be too sensitive....

 

 

The excerpt in this thread was very tasteful imho. I don't see anything wrong with it. It's factual...it is what happens to pets in shelters...and it's sympathetic towards the animals. Having a sad ending (actually a clifhanger) doesn't make it bad/wrong.:001_huh:

 

To each their own.

 

:iagree: I read the author's response and like he said, it's not as bad as Bambi, for instance. If authors feel obligated to warn about scary/upsetting content, they'd be walking on ice trying to please everyone. And standards change over time... Brothers Grimm, anyone?

 

That said, I'm sure those with sensitive children appreciate the OP's heads up.

 

Here's where I make a quick exit now. :lol:

 

:auto:

[laundrycrisis]

To be fair, I don't think the author was arguing that God's love renders dog ownership useless. Instead, IMO, he was arguing that everyone needs love, that this love can come from a variety of sources, and that since his love needs were already being met (regardless of the source) he wasn't searching to fill that particular void. And given that he (a) didn't feel the need to be the master of someone/something, and (b) didn't have the time to properly care for 30 animals, that owning 30 dogs was not responsible/necessary. He was definitely not saying that dog ownership signalled a lack of relationship with God, or that including both God and dogs in one's life wouldn't be beneficial. Even things that aren't needed can still enhance our lives.

 

Just my opinion, I just don't find that particular passage "warped."

 

That said, I still am avoiding the Dogs book because of the unnecessarily upsetting content. But my girls loooooove the Fred books (and their dogs!) so despite the Christian overtones (we're agnostic, personally) we'll continue to follow the series.

 

I don't care what he's arguing. None of it belongs in math !!!

 

This is a perfect example of why I tend to stick mostly with materials that are secular and marketed to public schools. There are fewer "surprises". To each his own. I would be disgusted to find this type of thing in a math program.

[Jay3fer]

In case there are some who haven't seen it: this is a thread where I posted a reply I received personally from the author.

[awisha.]

SPAM reported (of all things, they spammed the word dog) :lol: