Is someone who is East Indian considered "black"?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I've heard people twice now call an East Indian person black. While I agree that their skin tone can often be as dark or even darker than an African American person, it surprised me when I heard them described as having black skin. (One time it was part of a racist comment but the other time it was used as what was a description of someone.)

[KathyBC]

I wouldn't describe East Indian skin colour that way. I found it strange to read British fiction in which East Indians were called Asians.

[Sugarfoot]

All of our Indian friends (and in college we had MANY ;)) call themselves Indian. That's all I've ever heard.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My first impression when I heard both of these comments were that the people were ignorant of ethnic descriptors. I can definitely say the people making the racist comment were ignorant on multiple levels.

[Carpe]

No.

 

Some of them do self identify as "Brown" though.

[dangermom]

It's my understanding that once upon a time it was common in the UK, though I'm certain that is no longer the case. "Black" was something of a catchall term.

[Jean in Newcastle]

It's my understanding that once upon a time it was common in the UK, though I'm certain that is no longer the case. "Black" was something of a catchall term.

 

I did wonder about that. I have a vague memory of something in one of Kipling's works, I think.

[zenjenn]

Black generally refers to someone who is dark-complexioned African of African descent.

 

So, no.

 

Even some Africans, since as North Africans, would more aptly be called Middle-Eastern or Mediterranean.

[Mabelen]

I wouldn't describe East Indian skin colour that way. I found it strange to read British fiction in which East Indians were called Asians.

 

Yes, in the UK the descriptive Asian is used most frequently to refer to people from the old colonies in South Asia, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka. I was surprised to hear the term Asian used in the US to refer only to people from East and Southeast Asia.

[nansk]

Yes, in the UK the descriptive Asian is used most frequently to refer to people from the old colonies in South Asia, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka. I was surprised to hear the term Asian used in the US to refer only to people from East and Southeast Asia.

 

Yes, and I've wondered why South Asians are not called "Asians" in the US.

[Amira]

It's my understanding that once upon a time it was common in the UK, though I'm certain that is no longer the case. "Black" was something of a catchall term.

 

It's common in Russia. I'm always surprised when I see Uzbeks and Kyrgyz referred to by that term when I'm reading about Russia.

[stripe]

I think this is another example of why racial terms are stupid, but I have to say that in Orwell's Burmese Days, which is set during the Colonial era in Burma (then part of British India), the Burmese people are regularly called both black and the "n" word by the British officers:

 

'Is it quite playing the game,' he said stiffly, 'to call these people niggers--a term they very naturally resent--when they are obviously nothing of the kind? The Burmese are Mongolians, the Indians are Aryans or Dravidians, and all of them are quite distinct--'

 

'Oh, rot that!' said Ellis, who was not at all awed by Mr Macgregor's official status. 'Call them niggers or Aryans or what you like. What I'm saying is that we don't want to see any black hides in this Club. If you put it to the vote you'll find we're against it to a man--unless Flory wants his DEAR pal Veraswami,' he added.

[Mrs Mungo]

It's my understanding that once upon a time it was common in the UK, though I'm certain that is no longer the case. "Black" was something of a catchall term.

 

I agree. If you read historical works like Passage to India, then you'll see this. It's more regional (by country) than anything else.

[bbkaren]

I've often wondered this - are we not confusing "race" with "ethnicity" with these terminologies?

 

When someone is African American, is that not like someone who's Irish American, or Italian American? i.e. their ancestors came from Africa?

 

Black, white, etc. are racial descriptors that in my mind should be unrelated to what country the person's ancestors came from, no?

 

I work with a gentleman from Trinidad, black as ebony. Yet he's constantly called "African American" and he detests it...because he's not from Africa...

[Matryoshka]

Yes, and I've wondered why South Asians are not called "Asians" in the US.

 

I've heard Indians referred to as Asians here - but usually when describing the ethnic makeup of a school - 20% of the school is Asian, for example. I think when you look at a school profile, they don't break it down into different areas of Asia.

[stripe]

The thing with the term "African American" is that it generally implies a specific group of people whose ancestors were brought to the US from Africa as slaves, not the more general idea of an American whose ancestors some time in the past wrre African. Most African immigrants see themselves as culturally different (as well as genetically) from African Americans, who have been living in the US for hundreds of years. African immigrants do not tend to cook, say, barbecued ribs, coleslaw, and peach cobbler for family reunions. Yet many of them are expected to assimilate to being African American (style of dress and urban rap accent) when they immigrate here, because until recently there's just been one idea of what being black is.

[calandalsmom]

This is why you often here the phrase "people of color" used. Bc to us in the US black means a person of african descent. People of color can include a much wider range of non white peoples.

[Guest klly417]

Weather someone is East Indian or black or both it does not not matter. Both are excellent, and I would be proud to be either or both. I am sure you feel the same way, I was just sharing my feelings.

[mcconnellboys]

I've heard various coloring descriptive terms used, but most of them are technically Caucasian. Some groups originally from the more southern parts of India are Mongoloid in terms of racial characteristics....

[stripe]

I suspect the " person " who posted before you won't be back. That post sounds like nonsense.

[Farrar]

Yes, and I've wondered why South Asians are not called "Asians" in the US.

 

They are though. I've always heard people from India, Pakistan, Burma, Sri Lanka, etc. referred to as "Asian." I do not, however, hear people from the Middle East generally referred to as "Asian." Not only do some of these terms highlight the absurdity of our sense of racial categorization, but also our sense of geography sometimes.

[Liz CA]

Black generally refers to someone who is dark-complexioned African of African descent.

 

So, no.

 

Even some Africans, since as North Africans, would more aptly be called Middle-Eastern or Mediterranean.

 

The East Indians in our community refer to themselves as Punjabi. I've never heard anyone call them black even those who may not be Punjabis. When in doubt, they are Indians.

[LG Gone Wild]

I have only read "black" to describe Indians in books about the British rule in India such as the Raj Quartet.

 

The times I have heard it used was pejoratively (sometimes teasing, sometimes meanly) to indicate darkness or status. It was between Indians.

[Heather in Neverland]

Here they are called that and that is how they refer to themselves as well. I never heard that in the states though.

[gardenmom5]

I've only considered "black" as applicable to those of black african ancestry.

I do not consider east indians, or south east asians "black".

there are subtle regional facial/hair features that many don't pick up on. (there are differences by region even amongst european facial features - doesn't mean anything, it just is. even in africa, there are differences in features by region.)

 

I do think the government should have a "human" option box on the racial list.

[calandalsmom]

The East Indians in our community refer to themselves as Punjabi. I've never heard anyone call them black even those who may not be Punjabis. When in doubt, they are Indians.

 

In that case I am a Virginian. :D

[SweetBean]

I've often wondered this - are we not confusing "race" with "ethnicity" with these terminologies?

 

When someone is African American, is that not like someone who's Irish American, or Italian American? i.e. their ancestors came from Africa?

 

Black, white, etc. are racial descriptors that in my mind should be unrelated to what country the person's ancestors came from, no?

 

I work with a gentleman from Trinidad, black as ebony. Yet he's constantly called "African American" and he detests it...because he's not from Africa...

:iagree: Yes, I have friends from Haiti who considered themselves to be Caribbean Americans, not African Americans. They would consider themselves to be black though. I also have relatives who are from Africa (Nigeria), and they consider themselves to be black, and African American.

 

The East Indians in our community refer to themselves as Punjabi. I've never heard anyone call them black even those who may not be Punjabis. When in doubt, they are Indians.

Yes, there are many Punjabis in that area, and they are usually called Punjabis, not just Indians. While Indians are Asian, they call themselves Indians. Furthermore, I have learned from close Indian friends that even though many Indians are as dark and even darker than "blacks", there is wide spread prejudice toward blacks in that culture. One of my closest friends who is Indian, who truly loves my kids, refuses to admit that she is darker than my black son. It seems there is a bias among Indians as well as blacks against darker complexions. Indians definitely do not want to be called black.

[WishboneDawn]

It's probably a cultural issue.

 

I was with my parents last week and some old family friends were over. She's from Australia and he's from Sri Lanka and as far as I'm concerned they've been married forever (we've known them since I was little).

 

The husband mentioned once in a conversation about another fellow he'd known who was black and his wife started laughing and asked, "Well what does that make you?" I didn't think of him as black but for her it had different implications.

 

 

It's sort of an arbitrary designation at times anyway. I think the best option is to refer to someone in the manner they prefer.

[stripe]

I do think the government should have a "human" option box on the racial list.

Er, I'd be scared of the non-humans who responded...

 

I love when an old thread gets resurrected by a random new member!

[OrganicAnn]

In British literature of a certain era, they would refer almost everyone as black, colored or swarthy. I'm can't remember all the terms used, but at times they would make even Italians and Greeks sound like they were black.